Teacher Fired (Member of Apologia)

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00:37

Hi guys, welcome to a very special edition of Next Week with Jeff Durbin. I'm Jeff Durbin and I am here with Anela Crum and we are here to give your story, to talk.

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Anela is a member of Apologia Church and she is married to Matthew and some of you guys may have seen recently on our platforms, we shared an article from the

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East Valley Tribune. We weren't sharing the article to say that what's in this article is true.

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We were sharing the article because we wanted to introduce everybody to this controversy and we wanted to give you the opportunity to actually tell your side, your witness to what took place.

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The article says Chandler teacher fired for religious anti -gay actions.

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Chandler Unified School District fired an art teacher for allegedly discriminating against a transgender student and bringing a box of bibles to her classroom.

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Anela's conduct at Arizona College Preparatory Erie was described as quote objectionable disrespectful and unprofessional unquote in a report by district staff to the governing board.

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Students accused Crum of freely discussing her Christian beliefs in class and expressing anti -gay viewpoints including she thought homosexuals were quote just confused.

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So the allegations led to her termination earlier this month and so we'll get into a little bit more of this article but let's start talking about this and let's allow you the opportunity to give your side of the story.

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So we'll start with that. You're working at a public school institution and you're an art teacher.

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So let's just give me a minute on that. Tell me who you are, what you do, and how you got that job. Okay so I got my job right out of college basically and I wasn't saved at the time when

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I got the job. So I've been working there for the past three years. When I got my job originally there

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I kind of started teaching mid -year. So the teacher that I had taken the place of left mid -year.

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So all the students were like adopted. Like they didn't they didn't have a parent for half a year basically.

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So that's kind of also the situation that I had to leave them in which was really sad to me too because I left them in the beginning of the year.

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So I came to ACP right out of college you know just kind of winged it through my first two years and then this is my third and a half year teaching there.

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So yeah. And you came to Christ after you started all this.

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So tell us about that coming to Christ. So about a year and a half ago is when

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I really started you know asking like the big questions and like going to church and really like being truly like questioning what who

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Christ is, who what is my relationship with God. And I mean I've always had like a basis of you know

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God in my life as like you know this all -knowing being but I didn't really have a relationship with God at all.

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But you know in my last year it became really apparent to me that there's a lot that I my eyes were being opened to through me reading the

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Bible and just study and growth that I couldn't in a public school system like be okay with anymore you know.

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So this gets to an interesting point is that you're a Christian now as a teacher as an art teacher in a public school institution.

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Now what we like to think and we talk about this a lot at you're fairly new to Apologia Church.

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But we talk about this a lot we have for many many years at Apologia Church is that the public school institutions like to pretend that they're a neutral place right.

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Like we can we can educate people and we can tell them about history and science and arithmetic.

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We can tell them these things and we can do it as neutral parties. But we've always said that's a pretended neutrality that neutrality is actually a myth and it's impossible.

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We've encouraged at Apologia Church our families to homeschool and to Christian school their children because education is not neutral and I think what's happened to you and we're going to get into some details here is a great glowing example of just that point is that education is not neutral and it's impossible to be neutral because you weren't allowed to be a

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Christian who's a teacher in an educational institution. You weren't allowed to hold to your convictions as a

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Christian because your convictions are not allowed because it's not neutral. There's a particular set of beliefs and values you're supposed to hold to in that institution and I think what's interesting here is as people have been talking about this online a lot, even many professing

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Christians have said, hey she was in a secular institution. It's her fault, that sort of a thing.

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What's interesting here is just the the veneer of neutrality over the education institution is that technically speaking with their veneer and their professed stipulated position, they're neutral.

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You're supposed to be able to have your own identity and beliefs within this neutral education system but it's not really neutral.

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It's a secular humanist ideology, moral system, ethical system, and value system and so you weren't walking in step as a

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Christian teaching art in this school and so now you've lost your job and you're being ultimately vilified by them because essentially you're holding to a historic

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Christian and biblical position on sexuality and gender. Now that needs to be stated here

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I think very very strongly is that what you are holding to is not something that's unusual in history.

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It's not something peculiar. You're holding to the historic orthodox perspective of human sexuality and so your view isn't new.

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As a matter of fact, it was the view that actually established this country. It was the most common perspective in law and in communities in this country until of course the last generation.

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It's amplified against it but your perspective is historic. Your perspective is orthodox.

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Your perspective is Christian through and through and that perspective is not a hatred for those who have these sexual pursuits or this and I'll say it as a

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Christian minister of the gospel. This confusion over gender and sexuality our perspective isn't hatred towards those.

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It's a deep love and compassion and it's a desire to have compassion and love for those who are in that place but you have a perspective as a

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Christian who loves the Lord and loves God's word that God has defined in his word what is proper sexuality and proper perspective of gender and you hold to that perspective.

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So the question I have to ask you in Ella is this. The way that this is being told in the media in the secular media is that you were this

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Christian who came in and essentially coming and swinging an axe and you were taking people's heads off right over these questions of gender and all the rest and I want to ask you is it true?

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Did you do that? Okay so when I got my job and this is you know from a teacher perspective as well.

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When I signed my contract every year I know that this is a big thing that kind of came up. When I signed my contract every year you just sign the financial part.

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So it's like when are you getting paid and how much are you getting paid and this is your pay raise da da da da. That's what they tell you.

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Back in the day and I'm sure I could look it up so I guess this is a little ignorant of me as to what

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I'm held to with gender pronouns and things like that.

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I didn't know that I was being that I was signing off on those things as well.

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When I signed my contract for the year it's monetary. It's that's all you sign online so that's

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I wanted to put that out there first because like that's I mean that's what I've been signing the last three years.

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You made a monetary covenant with this institution. So that's that's what I've been signing for years is is you know how much you're getting paid da da da.

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So it's just like sign your contract move on kind of a thing and so that's what

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I would look at every year. That's it but when remind me again what was your question

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I'm so sorry. No it's okay so did you when you the way this is being described is you get the sense as you read this propaganda right that you were in there as a

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Christian sort of like slinging bibles at kids and telling them transgender is transgenderism is wrong and homosexuality is wrong and always and you really were using your art position your position as a teacher of art to really just essentially take people's heads off.

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Right okay I remember where I was going now. So I've been signing that contract for years.

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So when I signed the contract this year and I got into my job my you know my heart had changed because of where I am in my faith now.

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But I didn't really explain it I didn't

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I didn't really expect or want to create a huge amount of strife with anybody.

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When I first you know came into school this year my thought was well

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I'm gonna you know try again new year. I'm gonna teach art that's what

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I thought I was gonna do. Yes and I knew in the past I mean there the class that I was teaching that the main struggle was in is an

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AP class. So it's a little bit more open concept I don't get to decide the lesson planning as much they get to decide their concepts a little bit more and when

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I was having these conversations with students or anything like that it was in the previous six months of me being there.

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When I'm sure you remember the abortion bill in Texas and everything.

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Yes. Students were talking about it everywhere. Sure. And so I felt convicted you know as as a believer to give them another perspective and say no it's not okay.

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You know people in my in my school in my classroom were saying like oh let's just cut Texas off it doesn't matter like all of these vicious intolerant things.

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Intolerant. Yeah can you imagine all these things that were just like let's just pretend they don't exist let's cut them off of our state and all these evil things and I was just like here's a different perspective and that's of course disagreement unfortunately is seen as like you hate them then because you disagree with them but I find it you know as a

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Christian you find it as that's the greatest love you can show someone is to try to correct them to what the truth is.

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Right. So it's not so what you found not me being trying to be evil. No no loving and caring for another person's soul you you found in the supposedly neutral public education system that there is no real neutrality and that there's only one perspective allowed and the perspective of scripture and historic orthodox

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Christianity is not ultimately allowed in that context. Absolutely. Which is really what you found. Yeah.

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You're working in a Christian school now. Yeah. Praise God. And I think maybe what what we're what we're all seeing here and learning here through this process is that that education it's not neutral it's impossible to be neutral even about art and within an art context is because we're human beings we have these communities and these conversations and there's no way to avoid them and what isn't allowed within the public education system is a

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Christian perspective on these things. Every other perspective is allowed except the

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Christian perspective ultimately and and so when when trouble started with this for you this year what happened?

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So the very first week of school I get to know everybody so I guess it was the second week of school

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I have my AP students which is a college level class as I was kind of saying they have to make

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I can't remember how many pieces it's like 12 if you're doing 3D and 24 if you're doing 2D or something like that and what your job is is to create an inquiry -based project so you need to ask questions you need to create an inquiry and so I know that the students that the student that I struggled with in this and had this issue with I've known her since eighth grade.

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I started working when she first got to the school well it was a seventh grade school so I met her a long time ago you know and I know the student extremely well so I knew that she already had an in it's no secret okay so it's like I already knew what her ideas were coming into it so when

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I was promoting this and and it was new this year that it's inquiry -based so you're supposed to be asking questions rather than coming with an answer first and foremost you

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I was trying to push that a little bit more because I knew what was going to happen a little bit and so I was saying make sure it's an inquiry make sure it's an inquiry and they submitted all of their their basically their goodness

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I can't think of the word what they what they wanted to do for their projects their yeah they put their their projects and they sent them to me in documents and I there was a there was a lot of different ones there was plenty of different ones and there were some that were even something that I wouldn't have suggested them to do either because it was too narrow or it was because it was controversial to me there was a student that wanted to do one solely based on her identifying as a girl who wears a hijab and I told her maybe go towards your other idea because it's more broad and I think it's a better idea for your artwork overall as a broad concept and so when

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I got Shayna's who's the student she had a whole bunch of questions that she had already answered herself basically it's not really inquiry based it's not like she's doing a research project on it she already knows her answers she already is biased to the information so I basically told her

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I think your concept is too controversial for the classroom and you know because first and foremost in a classroom environment

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I don't think sexuality in any way belongs in the classroom I think you could possibly do that project outside of class

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I don't see why you can't so that's where I came at it from first and then you know after that I sent that email to her immediately

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I was called into my guidance counselor's office which caused me to talk to my principal which caused this whole thing to occur yeah so what did you send in the email what did you say let me tell you

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I said due to the topic due to the topic you have chosen for your piece I cannot approve your concept it is a controversial topic and because I do not want to spark division in the classroom and because it is inappropriate for the classroom environment

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I would like you to think of a different topic there are many different ways to take this project so due to the content you should either choose another avenue to create an

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AP project once you develop a new concept feel free to email me thank you for your understanding okay and what happened you get pulled into the principal's office at that point yeah so I actually got pulled into Mr.

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Vazosi who is our guidance counselor there and talked to him about it and he was like this is going to be a problem basically you should go talk to your principal and I talked to Rob Bickus and said you need to discuss you know this with because not only is it coming into my classroom environment it's coming into me as as you know a

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Christian woman at this point as well like though it wasn't my first intentional thought like I can't accept this piece and for more reasons than simply saying

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I don't I don't like your piece I don't like what you're saying it's that in this classroom environment you work with these students throughout a you know however long the year is you have to work with them on their concepts work with them on their framing you know it's my project too kind of not

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I'm not saying that I'm you know creating it you're the teacher but I guide them yes so I it's not that they're doing this project on their own and I'm saying okay go sit in another classroom while you do this right it's a journey you're taking with them and it's also a classroom environment you're trying to control as a teacher as an educator and and so the

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East Valley Tribune says this in an email Crum told the principal she does not condone the

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LGBTQ lifestyle and won't assist in creating artwork that glorifies of the report said yeah true yes okay that is true okay because you're a

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Christian yeah and it's supposed to be a neutral environment and we'd imagine that there's a level of tolerance to say well

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I understand your perspective on sexuality so we'll respect your views on sexuality and try to find some way around this what you did is you actually displayed that you're violating their perspective and their law of what they condone as appropriate sexuality so what we're really seeing here is that the public school system is not neutral like it pretends to be it actually has a perspective and Christianity and Christian Orthodox Christian beliefs about human sexuality and gender are not allowed right that's what needs to be highlighted here some might say well it's not right that you were saying as a

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Christian I don't want to see that but in reality in a in a neutral zone everybody's perspective is supposed to be tolerated absolutely the teacher should be allowed to have if you're neutral if you're neutral educated educating zone a teacher should be able to say

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I don't actually agree with that perspective I don't want to have that I'd imagine there'd be we can think about in this the flip side if there was a an

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LGBTQ educator and a Christian student who said no this is the way my project

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I want it like this and it says that sexuality is only whole and holy and good between a man and a woman and the educator said well that's not my perspective

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I really don't like that project I don't think we'd be having this conversation yeah it's flipped because you're a

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Christian with a Christian view of human sexuality now this is what's interesting here um

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Crom gave the student zero out of a possible 50 points for the project telling the principal that a higher grade would violate her conscience ah yes so a lot of people are mad at me for and the truth is is that I gave her zero

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I did um in this instance this was after I had discussed with the principal and discussed with the student basically

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I mean without being too dramatic about it I kind of like begged the student to pick something else because I personally didn't want to go through all this to be honest

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I kind of wanted to avoid the whole thing and um I had the conversation with the student and I talked to the principal the principal came back to me and said you're going on with it you're you need to do this and so you're being forced to educate and to teach in the context of something that violates your conscience as a

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Christian yeah pretty blunt on a fundamental aspect of of morals and that is human sexuality and gender issues and I told my principal as well that this is not something that I'm okay with and that I would be okay with resigning over it like to that degree that I'm not playing around with if this is okay or not and he he thought

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I was bluffing or something I'm not really sure but like I took the day off after that and said

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I just need a day to figure this out and um had everybody turn in all of their sketches on that Friday which which was that Friday and as I was looking at her sketches for her pieces that was really

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I mean I already knew that I couldn't grade it right because you're giving a grade to something that you don't believe in you're doing you're doing the job that you said you weren't going to do but when

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I looked at her pieces it just made my heart ache because she took the imagery in in her artistic piece her image of herself was that of a lamb so she used biblical imagery and it just hurts me because like she used biblical imagery to portray the fact that she is an innocent as a transgender person um so it

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I saw it and I was just like okay um and I I I couldn't give her a grade can't say okay well you did you did the work you know whatever and just give it to her isn't yeah it's complicated because you're going against your convictions there was an issue um not very long ago in Kentucky with a woman who worked for the state who could not in good conscience approve a marriage certificate um for a gay couple and she went to jail for it and she went through a lot in the media for that because she couldn't as a

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Christian approve of a particular sexual sexual choice and lifestyle and it was essentially played out in the media and all over the nation this whole controversy about a

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Christian in that context and the questions are all surrounding is a person required to violate their own conscience and their own convictions over human sexuality is a person required when they're working for a public school system or the state system are they required to no longer be

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Christian in that context and what's interesting here is we're finding I think a very important principle is that neutrality is a myth it's not possible you're either going to worship

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God the God of the Bible you're either going to see his word as law or you're going to worship some other

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God somewhere either it's going to be the people collectively we're God we decide what's moral we decide what is wholesome sexuality or it's the

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God of Muhammad Joseph Smith Zoroaster Confucius or whatever the case may be but neutrality is a myth and you found yourself there unable to be a

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Christian with Christian convictions over human sexuality in this context essentially what you were told it sounds like you were told no you have to violate your conscience yeah and that's why

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I decided to give a zero I it doesn't make sense in context because it was a completion grade like oh you did it you get the 50 points but but you also said as an educator that I don't want this piece

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I don't want this piece yeah I it was this point where I was like I can't continue this I need to put my foot down somewhere and you were you were asked to yield the student wasn't right but you're the educator right so you're the teacher and you had other reasons beyond mere conviction

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Christian convictions over sexuality these issues you also had desires as an educator to to hold the class in a particular way and to have the project done in a particular way and what what this really comes down to is ultimately you were asked as the educator yield to the student yes and you were asked on one level yield to the student it doesn't matter as the educator what you want done in your class yield to the student because their sexual desires and convictions are more important than yours and more important than your desire as an educator for what you want properly in the classroom and so what's being said here is that you have to yield as the educator and you have to to yield and ultimately violate your conscience and the students and their sexual desires have to be supreme that's what took place that's ultimately the answer what took place here so it says this the transgender student asked to be taken out of chrome's class according to the report

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I wasn't aware of that but I guess so cusd charged chrome with violating a provision of her contract that prohibits a teacher from discriminating against any co -worker student or parent based on gender or sexual orientation right and your your your understanding is that every year when you're signing contract it's a monetary contract well all that you see of it

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I know that there's obviously a moral element of it because they gave me like a book of it when I was charged with all of these things however what

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I have only seen for the past three years is here's how much money how much money you're making but ultimately what what's then what people need to hear here because people might be saying well you know if they have their standards she should just yield it to that that sort of thing but what

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I think needs to be highlighted here is this is supposed to be a public school education system and it's supposed to be a place where there is tolerance right and what's being said here is ultimately your perspective is not to be tolerated here right what we're really saying is that you must tolerate all of our perspectives but you won't be tolerated so in the end here what this identifies is that Christianity is not allowed in the public school system that's pretty clear ultimately because what will not be tolerated is a

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Christian perspective because what what's interesting here is when people say to you that the contract prohibits a teacher from discriminating against any co -worker student or parent based on gender gender or sexual orientation is this this what's being said here is that the teachers and the educational institution is allowed to discriminate against you right for your perspective on sexual orientation so do you see the conflict there yeah that's what ultimately it needs to be seen here is that somebody could say yeah but she wasn't being tolerant when in reality it's impossible because there's no neutrality it doesn't work you're not being tolerated what's true here is that the

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Christian worldview and Christian view on sexuality is not tolerated in the public school system and that's why you lost your job yeah that's really why absolutely so she was given until September 26 to request a hearing to contest the district's allegations before termination was considered but she never saw one yes

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I didn't seek one because um I thought it was a losing battle to be honest though from viewing everything

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I don't want my job there right I don't want it there so it would be weird to contest a that you don't want that's true and district reports appear to show the governing board has not tried to terminate a teacher since 2014 in that case and then with the employee resigning this is in the light of it appears to be relatively rare for cusd to fire a teacher in the middle of a school year the district report outlined other allegations of students feeling uncomfortable in chrome's class one student told administrators chrome questioned their pro -choice beliefs regarding abortion gave the student a bible and encouraged the student to rethink their morals shame on you first I read that and I say hey praise god how about we all tolerate one another's beliefs in this context what's being said here is the students are allowed to have conversations supporting abortion that perspective is tolerated but not the perspective of a christian who wants to say well why don't you consider this tell us about this incident um okay so what occurred in my classroom and this was at the end of last year when

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I was feeling extremely convicted about you know my faith and you know really coming into growth as a christian and and really trying to remain consistent in my life a little bit um

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I this was this is when the texas abortion thing was going on um and everyone at my school was talking and saying all of these evil things talking about abortion being okay within da da da da one of my classes one of one of my tables in the front of my classroom was having a conversation pretty bluntly about how abortion is pretty cool and um

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I just kept hearing it and kept hearing it and I was just like and my heart is just hurting so what's supposed to be a neutral zone it's supposed to be interesting and um so isn't everyone allowed to give their perspective yeah ideally it would be great um if there neutrality to be a thing um however um and at the time

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I thought it was extremely well received you know there was conversation back and forth you know students were talking with me

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I was hearing their side you know it was a conversation that I thought was a conversation um that was like productive um and saying if if I was to have that kind of a conversation in my classroom

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I would say you know from my christian perspective this is what the belief is you know so that's how that's how the conversation went yeah so I would

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I wouldn't say like I believe this this and this you know and it wasn't about me and my belief system

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I was just putting the christian belief system we're supposed to be all in educations out there we're all tolerating from a christian perspective and from this perspective right

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I mean you would think in a neutral education system that would be understood but um that at the at the end of the day

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I did put my you know the christian belief system into this environment yes and I said there's not supposed to be any discrimination so that's fine right right so uh at the end of the day yeah

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I I said my beliefs in the classroom which as a leader

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I shouldn't have done supposedly you know um except if you're agreeing with him on abortion

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I don't think right problem right I don't think it would have been an issue at all and um there were you know places where I said maybe

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I even said like it's murder because it is um that's the truth of the fact scientifically you know you can't skirt around the truth human so human being you're taking the life of human being and so all of these all of these high schoolers no experience talking about getting it was insane so um basically

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I just said this is the view on it this is what I think I never handed her a bible

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I may have said you know this is the gospel that's true like I have in that past like in that end six months of my job

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I was giving the gospel to students because it hurt me to see the darkness in my classroom every single day and no one seeing a way out at our school also our suicide slash self -harm rate is insane so crazy that on the back of our ids it has a suicide hotline like it's so bad and there's no no one sees what the actual out is so when you would you would say come into this neutral environment and say look there is an answer there is a truth

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I'm not saying here you're going to read the bible in my classroom and going through psalms and stuff but I'm saying if you you just see what you do with it you know basically this is the gospel this is what it is that's what

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I did in my classroom for those six months and in a situation where there's a neutral environment like this and there's not there's supposed to be toleration for everyone's beliefs and no discrimination right you shouldn't have been discriminated against ideally technically in theory so one of the other things that's alleged is the same student alleged that shortly after telling crumb that they were agnostic or an atheist the teacher lowered their grade on an assignment without explanation right right um that is a bold -faced lie and I'd I know that as a teacher in general

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I would never do such a thing not due to any I mean I if that was the case

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I would be doing that for everybody or whatever you know because I was not in a your secular school your christian convictions in the area of integrity are the same type of convictions and commitments in the area of sex of sexuality absolutely and your christian convictions over integrity wouldn't allow you to do such a thing right

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I'm I'm try to be consistent in in my views because that's the christian perspective that's the christian perspective yeah that's what

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I'm held to we'd love it if there was some tolerance for that perspective the classroom environment chrome described on the arizona college perhaps website sounds starkly different from the one depicted in the district report right she presented herself as an instructor who welcomed students to be creative and expressive quote if you have artistic ideas that you would like to create other than the project that we are doing we can discuss it chrome wrote on the school's website

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I encourage conversation and respectful discussion the constitutional rights guaranteed under the first amendment can often come into conflict in the public school setting it instructs the government not to establish one religion yet the first amendment still entitles citizens to freely express themselves right right uh interesting right but also

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I think we can talk about this too when the constitution was written and there's the discussion about the freedom of religion um what's important to note about the framers mindset is that the christian worldview was in the atmosphere we talk about the freedom yeah we talk about the christian when we talk about the freedom of religion that the framers understood and that people were thinking about they had just come out of a context where they're over in europe and there's serious oppression over a uh a state -run church and the state essentially establishing one one particular denomination controlling all of that and so what the christians who fled that context were trying to avoid is a state established church and they were avoiding those sorts of things and so we talk about freedom of religion they at least meant that you were allowed to express your christian perspective and to and to practice your worship of jesus christ according to your own convictions but what's interesting here is that the constitutional rights that guarantee you the right to practice your religion were not protected in this case you are given the constitutional protection uh by law to say that you have the right to practice your religion but you were not allowed to practice your religion in this context right when i was speaking with someone in hr you know they were trying to figure out ways that well how are we can still like how can we still let you work at your job you know basically trying to compromise with me and i was like how it doesn't make any sense and she's like well maybe you can you know just just leave it at the door just leave your christian faith at the door and i'm there you go and there you go okay so what's not being asked what's not being asked of the students and the other educators that they leave their religious convictions of the door sexuality and one's perspective on sexuality is ultimately a deeply religious issue it's a deeply religious issue it's a deeply religious conviction and what's interesting here is it's the christian in the neutral education environment that's being asked to leave her christian commitment to the door you do not have the constitutionally protected right to to practice your religion here in this state governed education system everybody else can have their religious convictions about human sexuality and humans and life and morals but you are not allowed to have your christian convictions so i think really for for me here anella i think that the main point here is to demonstrate not so much that you are oppressed and persecuted we understand that as christians it's coming right so this is that there's the point of our discussing this now is not to highlight necessarily the persecution and the oppression it's i think more i think what would be a better lesson here for everybody is to put light on the fact that education is not neutral and the public school education system is hostile towards the christian perspective if you hold to a christian perspective of humans morals sexuality you will be asked to leave your christian convictions the door because the view that is not allowed in the public school education system is the christian perspective the other perspectives are allowed they're celebrated they're free but you are not free to vocalize christian convictions in this context absolutely absolutely what else do we need to talk about anella what what you you've heard a lot of things and i'm praying for you and i am sorry that you've had to endure this and as a church we're loving you and trying to come around you in this context but you've had to endure probably a lot over even the last couple of days and maybe more the days to come and we're here for you and we care for you and and we're standing by your side but what do you want people to hear from you you've you've probably had a lot of bombs and missiles launched your direction i know you've got some threatening phone calls yeah somebody called you found your number and said that they hope that you died of brain cancer you had a strange person show up at your home not identifying themselves clearly not with the media and so you know what do you want people to hear from you i i mean i think that i don't know there's there's so much um go ahead okay so i think the statement about the neutrality element is by far the most important thing because if i could protect my brothers and sisters from putting their children in that that environment that's what i want to put out first and foremost um so here's the highlight this you're newer to apology of church oh yeah but we've been telling this story for so long yeah right yeah and it's a difficult thing because you're just trying to be a good teacher yeah but you found yourself in the context really learning what we've said for so long that it ultimately is not going to be possible and so you're and you're speaking to that now absolutely christian parents sending their children into this institutional environment thinking that their children are in a neutral zone but we're seeing at my school um specifically at my campus there are teachers that it was a it was a monday thing that we would do every monday to do monday meditations you would do you would choose a word they would choose a word for you and then you'd meditate on that word and we already know the problems with that right that comes along with like that um zen place that you get into with meditation when you repeat a word over and over again it's it's a like a getting into a trance a trance like state yes that's what one of my teacher does still does there every monday sometimes every beginning of her class so that religious practice is allowed that is a religious practice that is it's allowed into the school absolutely okay and right now well before i left they had instituted and are still probably doing um these videos that are from jostens which is a basically just a you know a private company that sells our school photos and class rings and everything like that yeah and they they are are pushing forward these videos that are they're called harbor freight videos or something like that and they're all about identity and how do you identify yourself and all of these all of these huge topics that they're trying to gender yeah they're in they're indoctrinating allowed yeah that's an allowed that's allowed because it's seen as neutral for some reason well it is well that's the accepted religious viewpoint right that's the that's the accepted moral position is that the gender issue the sexuality issue we've adopted is this perspective and not that perspective so this is highlighted this is celebrated this is taught and this is an area of indoctrination but the christian perspective is not allowed there's a discrimination and so again the highlight here is that no discrimination allowed except discrimination towards the christian worldview absolutely absolutely yeah so i i i am hoping that this is shared far and wide and that brothers and sisters it will be in christ will be praying for you and uh offering encouragement and hope um but i i think none of us wants to ever be the uh the lamb led to the slot or never none of us ever want to be sort of the example and to enter into suffering but i just want you to hear from me as your brother and pastor in this that um the the lord says it has been gifted to you not only to believe in christ but also to suffer for his sake and so all these moments of suffering in the midst of these conflicts are gifts from god and they're for his purposes and his glory and all things work together for good you know and ella one of the um amazing stories in the book of acts is um the early christians and apostles were going into the public square to preach the gospel and they were coming against the idols of the culture they were coming against the popular perspective and philosophies of the culture and if you look at acts chapter 9 riots break out and uh well people are trying they want paul dead for preaching the gospel christians today don't don't think that's effective way of evangelism like paul you did something wrong there people wanted you dead you know when the early early church is preaching the gospel riots break out in the town they're looking to kill the apostles and they're beating them and they're martyring them and one of the things that happens early on in the book of acts is the apostles are told and i want you to hear this the apostles are told stop speaking in his name so they're in the public square and they're told don't speak in his name and what happens is the apostles get imprisoned for this and then they're released by divine interference and they immediately go back into the public square and they start preaching the gospel again and it's discovered that they're not in jail anymore and now they're on the public square doing exactly what they were told not to do and they're brought back in in the end the response is didn't we tell you to stop speaking in his name and the response from the apostle peter is we must obey god rather than men we must obey god rather than men our greatest examples in the apostles the disciples of the lord jesus his early followers is that you have to as a christian with a commitment to christ lordship and for the gospel be willing to enter into the public square and to preach the gospel and obey god rather than men and i want you to hear this you are experiencing nothing new you're experiencing what god does when he brings transformation in the world it starts with the suffering of his people being willing to speak the truth in the public square and i want you to hear what happened they take a beating they get beat because they won't shut up and they're told just shut up right very tolerant yeah and uh and it says that the apostles they left the presence of the council rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name and then they kept going about house to house preaching the gospel and so i wanted you to hear that that god says that he gifts us not only trust in jesus so that we can believe in him that's a gift but also suffering for his sake you enter into the sufferings of christ with him for his purposes to bring about the greatest transformation and salvation in the world and the apostles response to taking a beating for jesus is rejoice i can't believe i was counted worthy to suffer for christ and i hope that you can find that you and your husband can find that in the midst of the trial in front of you well i was gonna say when uh i first when i first started i had this conflict with this student i came home in tears like just i can't even explain in a state that i was so broken because i knew like that it was everything was over at that job like immediately i knew everything was over because i knew exactly what i had to do and i knew i needed to stand up for what the truth was at least you know god's truth and i did not count it as a blessing in the beginning i counted it as my life is over my job is over this would have been great for my bed loan or whatever dumb stuff that i had already counted i'd already had a plan i had so much of a plan laid out for myself and i was crying because like there was this double feeling that i was having where i i just feel like i was just dying i felt like i was dying and and you know matt was talking to me about it you know back then too and it's like i was dying to myself like i i needed everything that i had planned and put ahead of me that was all idols in my life the plan that i'd made the money that i was making everything that i had worked out was not something that i was willing to compromise for god and if i did that would be my idol so i really needed to say i can't i can't compromise this and i know so many people have said you know you knew what you were doing you were in a secular school you know everything like that but i didn't understand how deep i was until like i was just crying in my bedroom about losing everything so knowing that and i and i'm able to kind of look at it now and say and rejoice and say this is truly a gift and i don't put those things ahead of god god is first in my life yeah and it's truly a gift it's amazing it's amazing what's amazing is that god gave you a job working now at a christian school so praise god but somebody might what i want you to be ready for this objection yeah somebody could hear that god blessed you with this job now as an art teacher in a christian school and they could say well see that's where you should have been in the first place and you might say yeah that you're right i want to highlight something that would ultimately take the legs off that objection even if it comes from a professing christian in a christian school you're identifying clearly we're not neutral we're christian that's what's being taught here and everybody knows it in the context you were in it was pretending to be neutral no discrimination allowed everyone's views are tolerated it's a lie at least in a christian school you walk in and everyone goes we love jesus we're doing art to the glory of god and there's no there's no confusion there nobody was nobody's lying to the students saying we're all neutral everything's allowed yeah no we say jesus is lord over this art project that's what's true in a christian institution education system there's honesty and integrity about who the king is and who the reference point is in the public school education system it is a facade no discrimination except against christianity no no intolerance except against christianity and so what's happening here and being exposed is it's all a facade it's all a lie the woman in hr had two bible quotes in her office i was staring at philippians while she was cutting my head off basically sorry for the the but like i was i was you know looking at bible quotes in her office while she was terminating me basically yeah christianity at the door yeah because christianity christianity is allowed in a secular context as long as you shut up you're allowed to be christian in the state and in the public schools as long as you shut up as long as you're not really christian and so that is what needs to be exposed here and so i'm glad that it is being exposed and i'm excited to see what the lord does through this so thank you for joining thank you absolutely go to apologia studios .com