Ministry Report

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 973 460 to or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Opening Remarks and Travel Fatigue

And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line. That's funny. I just before we started Someone gave me the live stream link to the Streaming that was done from Twin Home Baptist on Monday night and.

Did it look all this fuzzy? It did look fuzzy you too. Okay. All right, and I don't have the Okay, so I started somewhere in between it didn't start right at the beginning, okay, all right and. So I guess you can actually you can.

I should. I'm not sure if I should post this or what But I guess you can go back. I would like to go back and listen to this because what did you say. I did. Well, oh you said I pulled a Billy Sunday.

Okay. All right. All right, so I How do you know what a Billy Sunday is is the question?

I was just waiting for you to get on top of the pulpit. I I've seen pictures of Billy Sunday standing on top of pulpits and shaking his finger.

Okay. All right. Okay, well folks welcome to the dividing line I am back in in Phoenix, Arizona. Some of you didn't think I was gonna get out of Twin Home Baptist Church come come Monday night, but I I did and spent all day yesterday in a Lightly pressurized tin can basically flying back from Heathrow Airport.

This time we did United and which took me through Houston and that means a really long flight. It's I prefer the New York Philadelphia or Charlotte stop because it sort of breaks it into a little bit more even chunks this was almost 10 hours on the way back before you get back on land and So anyway, I'm only semi-functional today.

You know how it is. Well, maybe you don't but if you do Trans oceanic flights the day after You don't remember much. It's just you know, it's just it's it's not it's not the best best days. But anyway, I want to give you a report on what took place and if you saw isn't it ironic the two debates that we got to live stream and the Sammy Zatari one was not video.

You weren't around for that one. Oh Okay, because we did live stream it and I I don't remember if it was video live streamed or just audio live streamed. Oh Nobody told you well, there were people in channel that knew.

And I just expect you to sort of keep up with stuff. That's all there is. That's your job. Okay. So anyway but the two debates that were the two debates that were live streamed were the two at the churches and What the mosque was the only one that wasn't wasn't live stream, but it was live tweeted Milwaukee truth Live tweeted.

What's that? They wore their batteries. I bet they did. Yeah like crazy. Well, I know I mean, I know David's brother Peter was was tweeting and Milwaukee truth was Treating tweeting was actually London truth, but we have a sort of running gag going.

I'm the poor guy, but Anyways, so that was sort of live covered but not really a live cover and if you got a chance to Attend the debates or if you got a chance to watch the debates if you'd like to comment on What you saw of the four debates I suppose, you know Technically we did two debates Monday night.

It was this sort of parts one in part two, but anyway You can give us a call at eight seven seven seven five three three three four one I'm gonna go through and and I don't have anything other than this.

So if you want to call in you know, I Suppose now would be the stump chump type thing because I'm you know, I'm physically doing okay but you know, it's just You're you're you're mentally just not all there.

I was trying to type some emails this morning and I'd go back and I'd read I'd read a sentence that is type and go what I don't even remember typing now. What what where did that come from? And so it's just not this would not be a good day to be editing a book or anything like that I need to catch up on some sleep and and I think I went to bed around 6 a .m. London time.

Having gotten up at 5 a .m. London time. That just that just doesn't really do much for you. Anyway, so I hope I can remember all this stuff. I flew over to England on the 15th Arrived on the 15th left on the 14th, I guess.

Yeah, you lose most of that day and you get it back I got it back yesterday and The first, you know big thing that I had to do was the debate at the East London Mosque, let me tell you something I'm getting better at getting around London.

I love London. I Really love London it is a beautiful city. It is so rich in history and You know what? It's not that difficult to get around you you got to use public transportation but between the tube and the trains they they run on time most of the time and It's just it's just a lovely place to visit and I'm I I think the next time I go there.

I Don't really think I'll even have to worry about having somebody pick me up I think I can get or pretty much anywhere. I need to go Yesterday for example or day for yesterday depending on which where you are.

I'm listening to this right now on Tuesday I got myself by myself from my hotel To Gatwick Airport and to Inverness and then back from Inverness and back to my hotel without too much of a difficulty. So I And in fact, I am a Londoner now, I hope they're not gonna be sending me a tax bills but I am a Londoner now because I have the two absolutely necessary things if you see people walking through London.

What are the two things? That mark off Londoners. And Milwaukee truth will be able to verify this as well. What you need to have to be a Londoner is need to have an Oyster card and you need to have a cell phone.

Because everyone is looking down I don't know how they avoid running into each other because everyone is looking down staring at a cell phone. You can be in the train. You can be on the platform. Everyone is is staring at a cell phone.

Well, I now have a UK cell phone that actually works over there and works properly over there and And I have my own my own my very own Oyster card. And if you've got your own or oyster cut you are you're set.

That's just that's just all there is to it. So anyway We we took we took the the underground to East London. Now, let me tell you something. We came out of this train station and you walk out onto the street and You have left the United Kingdom and you are now in Beirut.

You're in Saudi Arabia. You are in a different land. You walk down the streets and yeah, they're pretty much English buildings but Most of the shops the signs are in Arabic. There's no KFC around, you know what they have their HFC Halal fried chicken.

I am I we saw at least four HFC's as We watched we walked from the train station to the East London Mosque and As you listen to people walking by I had first experienced this couple years ago in Edmonton and You walk down a street in London and Hearing English Might be 5 of time 95 of the conversations going on as you're walking on the street are in a language You don't know now in Edmonton.

It was more Eastern European languages but in East London where I was it was there was an awful lot of Arabic going on and It was it it was really a Culture shift coming out of a train station just to see how one particular area had just been transformed.

Very very very interesting and so we got there fairly early and But we were told we we were standing there looking at it and I was supposed to be meet meeting Abdullah al-Andalusi, but we got there early and we hadn't eaten anything yet.

And so this guy sort of sees us and he said we're here for the debate is yeah I'm here for the debate too. And so he takes us in and he's a Muslim and The guy is at the front desk. This is a very large place.

The guy's the front desk says could be on the fourth floor and it's gonna be in this conference room, etc, etc. Okay. All right, and so He takes us over to this. I don't know what you call it. I it was was it Casablanca?

What it was sort of a It's not a diner. What did they call it? Anyway, it was I had my first Oh, what was that called? Oh Doug's gonna kill me cuz I remember what it was. It's a it's sort of a it's a Middle Eastern pastry type thing filled with this was filled with chicken and peas.

I forget It wasn't a falafel. Was it a falafel? I don't remember. Anyways, it was something I'd never eaten before but I ate it anyways and Which may not have been really smart right before a debate now to think back upon it.

But anyway So he's sitting there talking with us and he's informing us that this is the largest physical mosque in Europe and It does take up like a city block, I mean, it's just it's huge and Samosa wasn't a samosa.

I think it was a samosa. I think London Truth got that. I think I think it was a samosa yeah, I think it's what it was and So Indian okay samosas are Indian. I'd never whatever it was. I'd never had it before.

It's from some place that I've not been let's put and I actually had one a vegetarian one at Trinity Road Chapel Right before the debate with Sammy a couple days later, which was a whole lot better. It really tasted like a it tasted like a chicken burrito.

It was that one was really good. But the one I had there was really bland so anyway, uh. So we were sitting there eating and and we're waiting for some other folks to show up I would say You know, we well, let me stay chronological here.

So we got done. We go walking in and They inform us it's on the fourth floor and we apologized the lifts not working. We call them elevators over there their lifts. So there's an you got to walk up the stairs to the fourth floor it's a it's a ways up there and So we go up there and we walk in and this room's not really even set up yet and there's almost nobody there so we're trying to set it up and and I'm breaking out my my digital projector because not digital projector there yet but I didn't bring my adapter and all I have is an American cord and that means you can't plug in there and Lala, so we eventually get everything set up and eventually is Zaka Hussain comes in the Zaka Hussain's a younger fellow and I had not had an opportunity to hear any debates that he had done and He was under a lot of pressure you could tell that he was a bit nervous he's not really good with technology and He was sitting down.

He had his notes. But you could also tell he had done a lot of work in preparation for this debate. He had set things up knowing, you know, I've debated this subject before and he even said during the debate you're predictable well at the same time he was accusing me of being inconsistent, but predictable and okay, they sort of go together, but You know, we had a nice little chitter-chatter beforehand, but nothing nothing overly deep.

And so we get going and I'm really not sure exactly what to expect. But you know, I make my presentation and we're debating the subject is Muhammad prophesied in the Bible now for most Christians. It's it's almost a matter of humor when you first mention that you excuse me Muhammad prophesied and then when you mention some of the primary places like oh, yeah Muhammad's the Holy Spirit in John 14 and 16, right?

Most Christians don't take it seriously and The Muslim has an uphill climb. Especially in light of the nature of the text that they that they utilize and When I debate Shabir on this at Twin Home a couple years ago about four years ago.

I was at the time I mentioned Song of Solomon 516 and Shabir had actually somewhat Shall we say complained that I had raised that? Because he hadn't I said hey many Muslims do well the irony is Zucker camped on Song of Solomon 516 and I'll just be honest with you, they're just It is such a massive stretch to turn the love poem of a woman who is marrying a king of Israel into a prophecy about The Arabian Prophet from six centuries that it is such a Massive stretch that I was really surprised at At how he stuck with it.

I mean he just he just would not give it up. He stuck with it The the entire evening and that really that really surprised me. But anyway, I Would say that the audience was about 50 50 which surprised me.

I Did not expect that the people in the front of the room tended to be the Christians people in the back room tended to Be the Muslims there might have been a few more Muslims I guess if you if you took in the people that are coming and going in the back and stuff and and we were interrupted Twice by the call to prayers and so there was that stuff going on things like that.

So I I didn't have anybody count or like that, but I just sort of assumed it was about 50 50. Did I ever feel in danger there no. There was one time in my opening statement you could feel the tension.

Just as you could a week later When you address the Quran and when you address Muhammad, there's gonna be tension. Not nearly as much, you know, it's not the same situation when they're denying the deity of Christ or attacking the Bible.

You don't have that kind of tension, but you do in those situations and when I got to my conclusions Where I had to say the Quran is wrong the Quran is in error in surah 7 1 2 7 and 61 6. Well You could you could feel the tension.

But I said it and let me tell you something. It is honestly I view it as an absolute privilege to have had the opportunity to stand in the East London Mosque and Look at a mixed audience with a right outside the window I noticed that Micah did some Photoshop magic and put two different pictures together and put on on Facebook, but well What the picture of me looking at them?

Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty cool but Was it Doug? I think was Doug McMaster's took the picture of me looking out the window at the at the minaret right out the right out. The it's just right there. This is this is the largest mosque in Europe and here I am Staying for this audience saying the Quran is wrong.

It does not prophesy Mohammed which means of course Mohammed isn't we claim to be either and It was a privilege and The conversations we had with people afterwards very good now. Let me just mention something about Zakir Hussain yeah, he came after me no two ways about it and He made all sorts of accusations about being inconsistent and and of course he was confusing categories confusing.

Places where he disagreed with me with my being inconsistent. He didn't prove inconsistencies. He would just identify any place where he disagreed with me as an inconsistency and a lot of people did not like the mannerisms that were his and the way that he went after me and I but look I Did not.

Both that debate and the debate with Adnan Rashid on Monday night a Lot of Christians look at that and they go that guy was nasty and that guy was mean No, I don't look at it that way. I like these guys.

I would debate Zakir again, and I would hope that he would learn and I would hope that he would even listen to this. I'm gonna write to him let him know I address this look these guys are under a lot of pressure.

He was under a lot of pressure. Um, this was his first major debate it was around 120 for me, okay. I have a lot more experience than he does. I have a lot more experience working the technology. I have a lot more experience speaking in front of audiences and as a Christian I Am NOT under the pressure he's under folks.

Islamic apologists are not a lot of pressure from their respective communities. They really are a pressure that we don't have and So I think he fell into a trap. He fell in a trap of talking too fast and the main trap he fell into and I again I'm gonna let him know I said these things and I hope he learns from it.

If I hope he can go well, you know, this guy does have a lot of experience in this. I suppose I could at least learn from that despite the fact that he's a Christian I hope I can still learn from his experience.

He did not attempt to bring the audience with him at all. And I fell into the same trap when I was when I was young. When I first started doing this I wasn't as young as him, but I wasn't even 30 when I first started doing this and and You you want to try to get everything said and you try to fire everything out there and You lose the audience.

The audience clearly gets the indication that you don't really care whether they're coming along or not. You don't really care whether you're communicating with them you've you've pretty much forgotten the other the people on the other side and You're just firing on all cylinders and shooting all the stuff out there and there really wasn't much organization to what he was saying and it makes for a less useful debate it really does and he fell into that trap and You know, I can talk fast too.

I made a big mistake because I was taught I made two mistakes in that debate demonstrated that I'm a human being and by the way Ijaz Ahmed has already put up a video Claiming that I cannot read Greek because I stumbled in quoting John 1 1 now.

I have quoted John 1 1 off the top my head a Thousand times in my life but I was talking too fast and I stumbled and it all came out wrong and the funny thing is he doesn't I don't know if he was looking at it or not, but He says I can't read it.

I wasn't trying to read it. I was quoting enough top my head and He's put out a whole video to say he doesn't know great. He's just sure he's taught it from I doesn't know. It's just that guy is just a so completely without integrity that it's it's I don't think anyone should even listen to he's he's right on the on the level of Another Ahmed now sadly, but anyway.

So I messed up John 1 1 Because I was trying to trying to get too much done too quickly and then at another point I did his quick search For the text on what was what was it about? Oh Man, I put it on the I put it on the blog that late that night or the next morning.

It was the one in Hebrews 11 branch branch. I was looking for a netzer and I just wanted to throw the reference out there because he had thrown out that he was throwing everything including the kitchen sink out there all sorts of stuff these things and So I just search and of course the screen comes up, but I put the screenshot up on on the blog so you can see what look like and I followed the line across wrong and got the wrong wrong one.

I just saw a little bit of the context of that looks right wrote it down record threw it out there. And I ended up getting as a 14. I think what was it as a 1419 isn't instead of as a 11 -1 the. So I made two Extremely minor errors at that point because I was talking too fast, but for for soccer I would just I would just simply say you know For almost all of my debate opponents there are a couple debate opponents that have done this, but you you've got to try to manage your time in such a way that You can like make a closing statement even during the rebuttals you can you can wrap stuff up.

You can demonstrate the audience you're trying to bring them along. So many of my opponents do not do that they just and then I okay, I'm out of time and you're done and The audience just doesn't get the feeling that you are trying to communicate with them at all and So I would say to soccer.

Those are some things you need to work on. And of course obviously I would say on a scholarship level that you've already fallen into the trap of Utilizing different standards a trap that I'm not sure a faithful Muslim Can actually escape.

I'll be perving on us with you. I don't know that a Muslim can consistently argue against the New Testament. And use the same standards he substant uses to substantiate the Quran. I just don't. I just don't know anybody can but the inconsistency is very very clear so as we were leaving and we've got We've got London truth on the on Skype right that Skype call all right I'll take it in just a second.

Let me just finish my story, and then he can give us his story on the East London mosque debate as we were leaving I was talking with some Muslims from Birmingham who were strongly encouraging me to schedule some debates up that direction and Hey if they can put the work into it.

I have zero context there. I suppose I could try to find some. I'm sure there are some Christians up in Birmingham. They would like to arrange something like that, too. But I've got zero contacts up there, so they'd have to do a lot of the of the work there but we're walking down all those stairs and I'm talking with one of them and and and one of them said you know in some ways you're more Muslim than most Muslims and The reason what he was talking about was I know more about the Hadith than most Muslims.

I've read more the Hadith than most Muslims have. Most Muslims have heard this out of the other thing I haven't finished all of a car yet, but very few Muslims have read all of Bukhari or all of Muslim.

I've read major portions of both of those and soon up a Sunan Abu Dawood and stuff like that and It was the conversations were respectful and I had I had won their respect by knowing their arguments and Interacting with them and again not being intimidated by the The situation we were in and I would love to have the opportunity of debating there again.

There are so many other subjects that we can engage in and hopefully maybe with Abdullah al-Andalusi. He wasn't able to debate this time around because he was supposed to be debating on October 4th the head of the English Defense League, but I just saw where was I.

Oh. While I was picking up my luggage at Sky Harbor last night I saw a notification from MDI that the place that they had booked to hold the debate has cancelled it out of fear of violence. So that's interesting that a I think it's a secular if I recall correctly.

It's a secular location. The secular location cancelled the debate between a Muslim and the head of the EDL but the mosque Did not cancel the debate between myself and Zaka Hussein. What does that mean.

I don't know but it's it's rather interesting that that took place so hey. Let's let's go ahead and talk with with Douglas over in London and see what his comments are on. The subject of the East London Mosque debate.

East London Mosque Debate and Muhammad in the Bible

Hello Douglas. Hey, that's why are you doing? I'm doing quite. Well. How was the flight back to Milwaukee? Long and uneventful. That's exactly what I had to Anyways, so you were you were there tweeting away.

They say say you destroyed your battery that maybe.

Yeah, my battery literally ran out. Just as you just as I think it was you or Zack here.

We're doing their closing statement. Okay. It was before or after the call to prayer. Okay, so that was while he was because he was just standing up or just getting ready to give his closing statement when.

Once again the call to prayer hit and we all had to sit there waiting for that to finish. And then he had his three-minute closing statement, so I thought that was rather interesting. So anyways, what was your what was your thoughts about the debate?

Well. Good debate. I think turnout was interesting. Expecting a lot more Muslims considering like you said, that's Europe's biggest mosque. Yeah. Surprised by the number of Muslims who did turn out. Not to say that there weren't any there, but like you said, I think you said in your tweet. There are about 50 50.

Yeah, I honestly thought it would be a lot more. Again there's not every day you hear that there's a debate happening at East London mosque. Between a Christian and a Muslim. Maybe he's decided was a Monday night folks.

Obviously. Got from work. I don't know me but honestly thought there'd be a lot more which was something I noticed. Um, I think you've really pointed out the same sort of thing happened that usually does I guess where a Consistent standards not being used right.

And so. You had Zakir who would more than happily quote all these either liberal or just downright unbelieving scholars and then He would quote Quranic sources or the Old Testament. To back up his point.

It's like I don't see the Equal weight will bring right. Right that you're using in your debate here.

Well, not in that but he was he was raising so many issues that really were not at all relevant to The actual subject of the debate. It was it was a scattergun approach. Let's see how many things we can throw out here and and unfortunately that strikes me as as trying to Energize your base rather than actually communicate with the people.

On the other side, which I think is is what we want to be trying to do.

Yeah, and there was one thing by the way he made he kept making the point that in Song of Solomon 5 that The word there could the word for I think it was dark or something similar like that could be translated Arabic.

Yeah, you know, I I had never. At that point one of the problems that I was having is he was throwing so many things out that I never Got written down. In fact, I can prove this because I use my life scribe pen and so I can actually post my notes my handwritten notes without having to scan them or anything like that just Electronically and I wasn't even certain what he was referring to once he got to the point of trying to talk about Things like Dark and wavy hair and and stuff like that.

I was like, where where did he where did he get all of that? I looked it up later and it was Did it did it did this 6 -2 at well 6 -2 is where he had the Beds of spices To graze in the gardens Etc, etc, etc.

So I found some of it eventually, but I didn't I wasn't didn't even know what he was referring to there.

It's interesting as well because um as he made that plan my phone went off while I was tweeting which I was not happy about. Because I was trying to tweet everything right? But um, my friend who I came with who was saying at the back Sent me a picture.

He looked up something on a blog post on his phone. He looked up that word which was supposedly translated could be translated Arab and it was nowhere near What he was speaking about and my friend was kind of excited by it.

Well, I would I would still be interested in knowing what the reference was if. Did you have it there? Did it was it in the thing?

You sent sharing like that. It wasn't in the thing. He sent me but I could look it up and get back to you.

Yeah, well, I think that the videos online maybe maybe someone wrote it down or something like that. But I I didn't get to it because I was like, I don't even know which which reference he's he was throwing things out so fast and I was trying to write as quickly as I could.

But when you're trying to write and then put a note as to what do you want how you want to respond something like that? I just I just couldn't keep up with it. So that's why I didn't even respond to it.

Because again, it seemed like such a massive stretch, but especially the stuff about balsa wood, too. I'm like what? Also, would you know really? And and then when I looked that up, you know, it's right next to this section on lilies.

Oh, okay. Is that supposed to be from Mecca too? I mean, it's just such a massive misuse of. And in fact as I'm looking at it here now in I think it was 6 -2. To graze in the gardens and to gather lilies.

I wonder if that's where the balsa wood came from. This is in the ESV, but I'm I'm not sure what happened to. Was it in the New American Standard that it had? That one. I'm not really I'm not really certain.

Anyway, I'd have to I'd have to look but it was it was definitely interesting no toys about him. Yeah, definitely. Well good. I appreciate your coming out and doing the live tweeting and all that type of stuff and You made the this the semi is Atari one, but I didn't see a Monday night.

You weren't able to get over to. Yeah, I wasn't able to make out the phone. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you that was honestly. Especially the second part of that one was the most interesting night of all four.

Oh, I watched online. Oh, yeah. It's getting interesting no two ways about it. But that's because as I will say here in a few moments Adnan and his guys are our speakers corner guys. So they were they were just sort of turning into the speakers corner, which I understand is pretty much like that.

But anyways, well, I appreciate you coming out man. Yeah, it was great to be there. All right. Thank you very much for your support. God bless you. There's a high bye-bye. There's Douglas from London.

We we call him Milwaukee truth, but actually he's Rather obviously from someplace other than that, but anyway, he was there with us at the debate as well so we we got that done and I'm gonna have to pick up the pace here because it's already 433 and I'm only through the first night.

Justin Brierley Interview and the Missing Muslim Guest

The next day some of you have already heard I did a program At With Justin Brierley and we were supposed to be doing a Program with two Muslims the most Muslim by name Hamza certs ease Who is with era who is that's the same group that Adnan Rashid is with was supposed to be on he's be much more conservative more Salafi in his perspective and Then a more liberal Muslim on the issue of the film free speech, etc, etc and We I got there like 45 minutes before him and we're talking with Justin and then Muhammad comes and We're waiting and waiting away we got started 45 minutes early and Hamsa never showed up and At one point said he was a mile away and then went dark.

Yeah, I was 45 minutes late and we had to get started we couldn't we were gonna try to bring him into the conversation once we got started, but we only had the Studio for a certain amount of time, you know, it's booked for other things.

And he never showed and never bothered to tell us Stopped answering Justin's phone calls, and it was really weird and we were told later. Well, if he figured he hadn't made it and so he just turned around went back and like a two-hour trip.

And it's like well, why don't you let us know it was very very weird. So the program was interesting, but not nearly as interesting as it would have been If we had had. And in fact here is that here is a Muslim who is saying that Christians should be more involved in protesting Anti-christian things and it was it was very interesting.

So anyways that that was that came out on Saturday on unbelievable and Always appreciate getting to meet Justin Briarley again and stuff like that. So then on Wednesday We had the debate at Trinity Road Chapel where we've had so many before four years ago Sammy is a toddy and I Debated at Trinity Road Chapel in Deity of Christ this time.

We were debating on sir for 157 and a couple things first of all Every Christian that had seen the previous debate made the same comment to me. Sammy has grown up a lot. Sammy's a young guy. He was very young and he was four years younger four years ago and His demeanor has improved his presentation has improved and it was by far the calmest debate of the four and I appreciated the fact that he was willing to take on look both soccer and Sammy took on difficult topics and Some of you may notice I've gotten criticized Inappropriately so for quite some time you're always on the defensive with the Muslims.

You're always defending the deity of Christ and defending this defending that when you take on the Muslims well, I'll take on topics when I feel confident in doing so and Having finished writing the book.

I felt confident to deal with chapters that I wrote in the book and So I had tried I did take on a Shake on a BN on this particular issue. But a BN messed up and didn't get it recorded. So and and the people who heard it live it was Not not not the best.

This is a tough subject. There are Muslims who told me I would never debate you on that Because it is a tough subject. We have the historical ground here completely and they have to argue basically Sammy's thesis was Attack the resurrection because it's connected to the crucifixion that way you can get around the fact that really what I'm supposed to be doing is Defending the Quran's denial of the crucifixion is sort of how that ended up working out.

But it's a tough. It's a tough position to take and so we did. We did that debate on Wednesday night, and I think the video it was live-streamed and I think the video is already up. I think so. I think I saw a link to it.

Obviously, we'll be putting our own versions up eventually for posterity's sake but the Muslims are able to get to and faster when I'm over in the UK for obvious reasons because they're they're right there and I think that one has already at least the audio has already been put up if not the video as well of my debate with Sammy's Atari on that particular subject and so then Short night very short night because no matter what you do those debates are gonna go long.

And the next morning, I'm up on a plane with Doug McMaster's and we are flying well first we have to take a train to Gatwick and we are flying to Berlin and What an experience I went over and I Christian Anderson is the is my contact person there at the Evangelical Bible Training Center and He met us at the airport and we Did a little sightseeing we first got there he took us by the Reichstag and We went over and saw the Brandenburg Gate if you're not familiar with the Brandenburg Gate Go watch either JFK's Speech in Berlin where he said he said Ich bin ein Berliner.