Keep sharing good news without ads.
Matt Slick Q&A for Catholicism & Protestantism
And in over my head, I think it is see what says live three seconds four or five seconds. So what's happening is it's being recorded right now, and it'll stay recorded onto your Facebook.
Okay, let's see my page or the forum.
The one you gave me the one that we locked in for here. The forum. Hopefully. Okay, but you can go you can go check you can go to your browser and go look.
And then Let's go look too. Yeah, exactly. You just put another tab in there and just check it out yourself. Yeah.
Let's see, and then it takes a bit for people to come in. Right, right, right.
That's right. It's I'm wondering how that work. Oh there. Yeah, we're there but they have to press go. Okay, there you are, okay, we're here people have to just okay. So what's gonna happen is it's gonna take a little bit, you know, what I'm gonna do.
I'm going to mark This is pin this so that it stays up. Okay on top. Okay. All right. Yeah, if we do that, then it'll okay. Here we go. All right. Now we're on top. Okay, so people okay.
So I might as well teach you while this thing is going live takes it'll take time for people to come in. Ryan. So I will amen David Neff. I know David he came in. Okay, and Jimmy Smythe. He. Yeah, he's.
He's a Carmite Protestant warrior. So there are people from the car website. So those who don't know. Okay to my right is Robert Sledge and he's a Devout Roman Catholic. Yes. And we'll see we'll get this person in here and so.
There's a Facebook forum full of Catholics. It's a Catholic forum and they have Protestants in there. And so we arrange this little Q &A time for me to answer questions for people. And that's what's going on.
Hello, everyone.
Hello, well, how are you? I'm doing pretty good. Hope you guys are doing good, too. We're doing well. Yes.
So will are you a Catholic or not or what? Of course, I'm not a Catholics.
I'm leaning towards Calvinism. Okay.
So what we're doing here is just hopefully it's some Catholics. The Catholic forum will want to call me. I mean come in. They can either come in with the URL. Or they can just post questions in the forum and it'll come feed into here.
So if you type something in Facebook, it'll come in and we'll see it, right? Yeah, Matt Bell your occasional lurker in a chat. Oh I'm loud. Yeah, which chatter. Thomas Dickens sheets 2020 the end times.
Yeah, it seems like it doesn't it?
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
We're getting closer every day. That's for sure. Oh, I think we are. Yeah. Yeah, we are to the end.
Excuse me. I got something in my throat here. So I'm clear my throat a lot, but Maybe I'll mute myself and clear it. There we go. So Robert, this is this program I use all the time. Okay, we have I think up to ten people in here.
Okay David.
Major forum, so hopefully that'll help a little bit, you know, hopefully. Yeah, hopefully it'll bring in some good discussions and stuff. Yeah. They're not very nice sometimes.
Yeah, I noticed that all right, yeah, I think I just got challenged to do a debate. Does God exist with a PhD guy.
Another forum. So that's gotta be that. Yeah, that's got to be a kick in the butt that to that. I mean.
Yeah, I'm coming soon, yeah, okay well so we'll See. Wait. No, you said you're leaning towards Calvinism. That's right. Yeah.
I just think there's a couple problem for Calvinist and there's a couple problem for Universalist. Atonement those who believe that Christ died for the whole world. There's a lot of problem there, too.
Okay. So what you want to ask a question? We're gonna discuss. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, of course for a proverb chapter 1 verses 23 to 28 where God speak about calling people out. But they refuse him and they kind of lead towards that. They're they're being damned into eternal damnation.
So, how could they have been called by God and refuse if God choose people and they cannot refuse his grace. Okay, let me open it up.
So proverbs I had a program open. I didn't want to open. Okay, let's see Proverbs 1 28 29. Yeah, 23 to 28 here. Yeah, the context wisdom is being personified. In verse 20 wisdom shouts in the streets and lifts her voice in the square and so Verses 23 to 25 wisdom declares that she called out to the scoffers and the fools etc.
So verse 29 does not state that the fear of the Lord is a choice as if it implies libertarian free will. You know libertarian? Free will is not really libertarian free will and Compatibilist free will.
Libertarian free will I'll go very basic is the idea that human free will is Not under the direction of God and that is completely able of its own to come to Christ. And Compatibilist free will would say that our free will choices are compatible with the four ordination predestination of God.
Where libertarianism kind of steps back from that and says no because if God knows what you're going to choose You're not free to choose it when it's time to choose it because you can't make any other choice.
But they don't understand that the logic issues there. Yeah, I would disagree with that. I know a lot of Calvinist use like let's say, you know God know that you're gonna eat a burgers. Can you change that?
But my answer would be God will never had said you were gonna eat a burger if he knew you weren't gonna.
Choose a burger, right, right. What I'll say basically is look he knows what you're really gonna choose because you're really gonna choose it. That's why it's not him making you choose it. You're fully gonna choose it.
So you're free to do it. It's a Mm-hmm, right so and it's consistent with reformed theology. Colony, they will not answer. Right, but I will not answer. Excuse me. They will seek me diligently, but they will stop on the face.
It's about but wisdom. And the con remember Proverbs is I do use Proverbs sometimes for doctrine because occasionally you have something's very precise but here Proverbs 1 Proverbs 8 is dealing with the issue of wisdom and It's you know, they hated knowledge did not choose the fear of the Lord so people will use this.
They'll say they didn't choose the fear of the Lord. Matt. That means that Calvinism is not true because the doctor total depravity wouldn't be true. Which states that they are incapable of coming to Christ on their own.
They have to have grace. They have to have God's movement upon them and has to regenerate them. And so let's say they did not choose the fear of the Lord and I say you're right. They didn't because it's they're totally depraved.
They did exactly what their nature Would require of them because their nature is by their by nature children of wrath. Ephesians 2 3. They're dead in their trespasses and sins Ephesians 2 1 so they will not choose because they can't because they're free but they're only free to choose in a manner consistent with their fallenness and.
So therefore they're going to choose to do fallen things freely keep their self from sin. They choose to keep themselves in sin, this is why regeneration must precede faith. Logically, you know logical priority and temporal priority.
No okay, so Temporal priority because some people say there are minions in particular will say something like well You've got to believe and then you become regenerate. So there's a temporal priority.
So let's say we have a believer Who he believes and then let's just use the number five five seconds and five seconds later. He's regenerate. Let's just say It's a temporal priority. There's a Occurrence and then a few seconds later.
There's an effect. That's called temporal priority but the problem with that kind of thinking and the issue of salvation regeneration and believing is That you have a believer who's not regenerate for five seconds.
So that doesn't make sense. You can't have someone who's a believer and also not regenerate. So let's switch them regeneration precedes faith by let's say five seconds. That's a problem because then you have something's regenerate who's also not a believer.
You can't have that at least for five seconds. It doesn't make sense. So what we we do is we say logical. I mean a temporal priority doesn't work. So we'll say logical priority is what we have to go with.
I'll let me explain what logical priority is. So you flip a light switch on. The electricity is in the light bulb. Whenever the electricity is in the light bulb. The light is simultaneous with the electricity.
They occur at the same time. When electricity is present light is also present, but the electricity is logically prior not temporally prior. It's logically prior in that it must be there in order for the light to be there, but they're simultaneous.
So because they're Excuse me, because they're a lot. It's logically prior. It's not temporally prior. So what we would say in the case of the illustration of electricity preceding light electricity must be there in order for light to be there and.
So electricity is logically prior. But it's not the case that light must be there in order for electricity to be there. Light is not logically prior. They're simultaneous, but electricity is logically prior.
So when we talk about Regeneration and faith we say that regeneration is logically prior to faith that God is the one who does the regenerating and we know from John 3 3 through 5 that we're born again.
2nd Corinthians 5 17 were made new creatures or John 1 13 says we're born not of our own wills to talk about being born again. Not of our own will and John 1 3 says we're born or caused to be born again.
First Peter 1 3 that is so it's the work of God. He regenerates us and because he regenerates us then we believe that's what. That's what that is.
Yeah, and and since like, you know Calvinist because I hold to like the the view of one save always save. You know once God justify you he'll always justify you. But I kind of hold to a view and most because I come from a Baptist background and they're like super anti works there.
But I believe like someone that's truly saved for let's say a couple years should brings fruit at least, you know a bit of food. Because I don't I don't think you can be a Christian and I'm not talking about losing your salvation, but Calling yourself a Christian for four years and still murder people and completely live according to the flesh.
It does not seem like God has regenerate you.
Right to you for generation precedes faith. Then when we're we're believers and someone says to me well, then you can send all you want. Yeah, that's exactly correct. Yeah, what they forget is that we're regenerated.
We're changed. We have a new nature. And I don't want to sin. Answer is an actual change. So a lot of times the cults and false religious systems. They fail to incorporate this issue of regeneration of the indwelling of God the change of us by God's presence.
John 14 23 the father and a son will come and in make their abode in us. This is regeneration and we're born again. So we don't want to to go out and sit.
Excuse me. So that's how that work and and that go goods with what Paul says, you know, there's nothing good in my flesh. What do I do? Do I hate you know? He's speaking about a big war between his flesh and his spirit.
That would go really good with the teaching of Paul, right? That's Romans 7 18 through 25. He talks about that, right? Yeah, cuz I'm glad.
Yeah, cuz so basically I just think this is like really they believe that literally you can be a Christian and murder People every day and still be saved. I mean that would not position exactly. It's not what we teach.
It's not what the scriptures teach and when critics raise that objection, they tell me they're without knowing it. They're telling me they don't understand the position they're attacking now. Here's the thing because of what I do for a living.
If I tackle atheists I have to know atheism if I tackle Islam I got to know Islam. If I tackle Catholicism I got no Catholicism Mormonism. I got to know Mormonism Jehovah's Witnesses. I got to know Eastern Orthodoxy.
I have no evolution information theory logic. I have to know all kinds of things be able to talk their language to build and know what they're saying. That's great. I don't get all of it right all the time.
But what happens a lot of time is the critics of say Calvinism. They never study Calvinism. They never study what it actually teaches. They just hear caricatures and then they attack it. Yeah, and so I'm required to study their positions, but they don't study our position.
They just it's not on it and they say well, you know, I'm not gonna listen to you. Well, yeah. Why do you you know, don't don't come and argue with me. We don't even know what you're talking about. If you're gonna say I don't understand something.
What does it mean? I'll say this is the reform perspective. Here we go. And if you disagree, okay disagree, you know, but that's it.
Yeah, cuz Calvinist when you look a bit like when you don't know about it It seems such a heavily doctrine and seem to make God so evil. I mean it just it just. Yes, like the theology that if Christ died for sin How can you go to hell if you're forgiven for all your sin surely does not make sense, right?
Well, if you go to first Peter 2 24 I can share the screen and show you guys scriptures if you want. In fact, I'll do that show you guys what else this thing can do. All right. Let's see watch so. There you go.
So you see that Robert, isn't that cool? Yeah. But Say what I'll do is I'll make this bigger. Yeah, and which I can do very easily website. Is that. This is my Bible program blog boss, okay. So you have to agree that you were everything right?
I have commentaries. I get all kinds of stuff. And so anyway for example. Well, oh, yeah first Peter 2 24, right? So we're talking about the atonement right first Peter 2 24 and He himself. I hope you guys can see that.
Okay, what I can do is this. That even better. Oh, yeah. All right. He himself bore our sin in his body in the cross that we might die to sin and live to righteousness for by his wounds. We are healed.
Okay. So the Bible says he bore our sins in his body in the cross. Now I'm gonna I'll do some teaching on this and put this all together here. Watch this. Now this is Matthew 6 12, this is where Jesus Jesus says it said teaches how to pray.
He says our Father who is in heaven. How I'd be that your name your kingdom come your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our debts. See that right there that we're debt.
Okay. No, yeah as trespass is a transgression of the law this is and that's a Proponent nuts not it might be proper Tomate. Anyway, I don't I forgot. This is the Greek word Ophelia. Right here Ophelia and it means debt.
So what I can do is click on this and It shows up over here to owe debt that which is owed Strictly do that's a debt. That's Matthew 6 12. So this is what Jesus says right now watch this Father how to be your name your kingdom come give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our sins.
That's the Greek word her martyrs which means sin. So wait a minute Jesus in one place says forgive us our sins another place. It says forgive us our debts. So debt is legal Debt sin is a legal debt because watch this first John 3 for Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness.
Because sin is lawlessness. To break the law is sin. So sin is a legal debt when you go to John 19 30. Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, he said it is finished. Okay, it is finished right there.
That's the Greek word to tell us die right there to tell us die and The word To make an end to or accomplish to complete make something okay bring it to do. Now I've got the documentation someplace, but I could find it.
I've got a big document on all kinds of stuff. But any rate. This Greek word to tell us die has been found handwritten on ancient tax receipts. Signifying a legal debt that's been paid in full. So here's what's interesting.
Jesus was made get this Galatians 4 4 when the fullness of time came God sent forth his son born of a woman born under the law. So Jesus was born under the law. Right, and he said it is finished a legal statement.
Sin is lawlessness and he equates Sin forgive us our sins as we forgive those who are indebted to us. Actually, that's the word of Philemon again. So here Jesus equates sin with legal debt and forgive us our debts we forgive our debtors right from this thing.
So when we understand that he bore our sin in his body in the cross. What we have to see is what he's doing is having our sins imputed to him to impute and so to impute Means to reckon to another's account.
All right to reckon to another's account legally. Now watch this. Watch this to 13 and 14 when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him having forgiven us all our transgressions now.
Having forgiven us all our transgressions. Oh Transgressions. Yeah, I was right. It is part of Tomata so a transgression or up Tomata. You see having forgiven us all our law-breaking. Having cancelled out the certificate of debt.
Now I'm going to spend some time on this this right here. Certificate of debt is this word right here? Chirograph on right here in the middle. Care, that's the word. I'll go to the English care. Is the word hand graph a writing?
Chirograph on all right. It is right here. Hand, I'm sorry to write handwritten record of debt a note written by the hand which makes one's Obligated to fulfill what is written? That's what it is so it's the chirograph on is a handwritten IOU of Legal indebtedness and it's it only occurs right here in the entire Bible.
Here's a trick I can do so. It's five four nine eight. That's the Greek word five four nine eight so I can go over here Five four nine eight and it only occurs right there In that one verse so like the word decree for example dogma, right?
1378 I'll just show you what this program can do. It's really cool. So just one three, seven eight, right so it occurs five times. And exactly every place and I can just click on a verse and it shows me what it is.
And I can read and do exegesis. Okay, so no big deal. That's what I can do now. So having cancelled out the certificate of debt now, here's a question. What is the certificate of debt? Because it's a certificate of debt is related to this.
Having forgiven us all our transgressions having cancelled up a certificate of debt. The question then is is the debt the sin debt because proptomata To is a transgression of the law. Jesus says in Matthew 11 6 11 6 no 6 12.
Sorry. He said forgive us our debts and Luke 11 for forgive us our sins. So Jesus equates sin with legal debt. He bore our sins in his body in the cross legal debts could be transferred. So if like Robert on the screen, okay, you know.
Earlier if Robert and I go to lunch and I say Robert I'm gonna buy you lunch you know and I buy him lunch right and I hand my card to the To the waitress afterwards and for some reason the card won't work.
Maybe they put a hold on it. Maybe you know the bank said hey, we've got some funny action on it. They cancelled the car. They put a hold on it. I can't pay the debt now, but Robert could reach into his wallet because he's a really nice guy and he pays my bill and so my my debt could be transferred to him so to speak and.
So because legal debts are transferable and notice what Jesus said in first Peter 224 but it says in to persuade 224. It says he himself bore our sins in his body in the cross. How is that possible? Our sin that was transferred to him?
Right on the cross right now. When we go back to having cancelled the certificate of debt It makes sense to say that it is the sin debt because look what it says. Consisting of decrees which is against us hostile to us.
And what are these decrees these dogma right? Well the dogma which I happen to put down here are these it only occurs five times they Now in the days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus. So it's a legal statement now when we were passing through the cities don't know if you guys can see that I'll put it up.
Here we were passing through the cities. They were delivering the decrees which have been decided upon by the Apostles and the elders. These are official statements of the obligation 17 7 of Acts and Jason was welcomed them and they all act contrary to the decree of Caesar.
Okay another legal thing Ephesians 2 15 by a polishing in his flesh the enmity which is the law of commandments contained in ordinances. That's the word dogma. So that he in himself he might make the two into one new man.
That's the Jew and the Gentile which is the law of commandments contained in the ordinances. So when we go back to Colossians 2 14. When we look at all of this, we look at the what's called the semantic domain of the word dogma in the Greek.
This couldn't mean law. Couldn't it?
Well, yeah, that's I'm going to show you it could mean the law that's written and it could mean the sin debt. Either one, right? So let's work with it because either one those are the two options the decrees could be don't lie.
Don't steal but if you break the decree the law of God you have a sin debt right. Those a certificate of debt is the the thing that you do that you break. So look at this I'm gonna I'm gonna do some teaching here for a little bit.
This is Exodus 20. Watch this this is Attend commandments now there is what's called the suzerain vassal treaty pattern of the third millennium BC and What it is is a covenant pattern where the big king would say to the little king.
This is who I am. This is what I've done. I'm the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt out of slavery and the stipulations. You shall have no other God before me shall not make yourself an idol or like us what's that heaven earth, etc.
You shall not worship them or serve them by the Lord of God and made jealous God the stipulations and then the punishments for breaking it. Visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children on the third and fourth generations to all who hate me.
But showing kindness of the thousands who love me. So if you keep the Obligation, you're okay. If you don't He visits iniquity on you. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. He will not leave him unpunished.
Who does that. So there's stipulations and punishments for breaking the stipulations. Remember this day of Sabbath day to keep it. Holy six days. You shall work with the seventh day. You shall not work not do any work your sons your everybody.
Okay. Six days the Lord made the earth and heaven and he rested honor your father and your mother that your days may be prolonged. You Do that there's a reward. You should not murder commit adultery steal, etc.
So I'm just trying to show you is that the Ten Commandments are a legal document a Covenant document and covenant documents each party gets a full document. The two tablets are ten and ten not six and six or six and four or five and five.
They're ten and ten because a member of each party got the covenant got the Documents and the Ten Commandments were put in the Ark of the Covenant which is under the mercy seat in the Holy of Holies. Which is where God himself his was his footstool the mercy seat.
So it's in the presence of God, but the Ark of the Covenant was in the presence of people. So therefore the two parties involved in the covenant relationship. Now, let me go back. So if we were to say that this is the law I'm going to show you guys something.
Okay, if we say that the certificate of debt the chirograph on is the law. Then we have an issue. Romans 5 13. For until the law sin is in the world, but sin is not imputed. When there is no law. Now, wait a minute sin is not imputed when there is no law.
So if This means the law. Okay certificate of that consisting of decrees now we'll see the rest of it which was hostile to us. He's taken it out of the way having nailed to the cross. So when was the certificate of debt canceled.
At the cross. Mm-hmm. Okay. It's not canceled when you believe. It's not canceled and you get baptism get baptized. It's not can't cancel when you go to church or take communion. It's canceled by Jesus at the cross.
That's what the text says. It's not me. Arguing about it is not me interpreting. That's what it says. I.
Show this. It doesn't have an agreement about certain semantics, but you know, yeah.
So let's work with the two options. If it's the law that's canceled. Then we have the issue of. Well, there is no law the laws canceled. So sin cannot be held accountable to us. That's a problem, isn't it?
Mm-hmm. But sin still around so doesn't quite make sense to say that. What if it's the sin debt the actual debt of sin that's canceled at the cross. Now we got logical issues to raise. Because I ask people questions if the sin debt is canceled at the cross.
Can you go to hell? No. Because the sin debt doesn't exist anymore. Well people say to me well Matt they have to accept it. No, they don't because the validity of the certificate of debt being canceled is not dependent upon our faith is Dependent upon the action of Christ.
His death on the cross is where the debt was canceled. It was canceled when he did this. Mm-hmm. Show you guys something else. Romans 6 6 Knowing this that our old self was crucified with him. Well, when was our old self crucified with him?
When we're baptized when we take communion when we confess Christ when we repent. When we walk forward up at an all at the altar and a Baptist Church. Is that when we're crucified with Christ? Well, it says crucified with him, right?
Because it says here knowing this that our old self was crucified with him in Order that our body of sin might be done away with so that we should no longer be slave to sin. For he was died is freed from sin.
Now if we have died with Christ. We shall believe we believe that we also shall live with him. Wait a minute. What's going on here to have died with Christ to be crucified with Christ? Well, wait, what does that mean?
When is it that we were crucified with Christ? When is it that we died with Christ? Well He died 2 ,000 years ago. So this is I could go into other theology here. I don't get too far off the track it back to Colossians 2 14, but the thing is He represented us we died with him.
That's what happens. We died with him. We're crucified with him. Okay now We go back to this the sin debt if the sin that is canceled. You cannot be held responsible for a debt that does not exist anymore.
What if you backslide. You backslide. All your sins are taken care of so. Was it say there's a confusion though? Because what about Anglicanism today. Some of the people, you know, I Game marriage, for example at one point they were you know.
You know, they were saved or not saved. I mean we can say saved but in what. At one point they were they were Following God's decrees or God's laws and then they decided well, you know what we're gonna slip we're gonna change.
We're gonna interpret something differently Which we call sin. They would not. How do we. How do we understand that.
They were not from us, but they were not really of us for if they had been of us They would have remained with us, but they went out so that it could be shown that there were not all of us. But at one point they were.
Now if someone was saved, here's the problem. There are there are problems now. I've had to wrestle with this for years and I've solved the problem. Not not just me, but you know. Reform theology solves the problem.
And you guys say it doesn't but I've been debating this for years and years decade literally, so I say it solves a problem. Hey bill if you can mute yourself, you got noise. Let's see. Let's see. See see whatever.
Okay, so Here's the thing. I'll have to explain it. That God I'll do this. Look at this. Go to Ephesians 1 for Just as he this is really important right here. This is a very critical verse right here.
This part of this verse Ephesians 1 for this as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world. He is the father. Who chose us? That's the elect because that's the word eclectus right here from from from excuse me from a plague of mine.
To be chosen a plague of mine and he chose us in him that's in Christ. So he chose us that means a father chose us in Christ. Before the foundation of the world. This is really significant right here.
He chose us in Christ in Christ as a sign of what's called federal headship. Federal headship means that the male represents a descendants if you go to 1st Corinthians 15 22. In Adam all die in Christ all shall be made alive.
In Adam as a term of federal headship in Christ as a term of federal headship. So that they're different all they're different all's because the only ones who are made alive are the Christians. Right go to Romans 5 18.
I could get too deep into this with you.
But but but I want to. I want to interject if I can. I have a question. Okay, take a man like Jim Jones the Guyana tragedy. I don't know if everybody's aware of that. I bring this up all the time. So he was a United Methodist minister now Jet I'm sure that there were ministers that came to him knowing he was saved.
Now he wasn't saved but but but to become a United Methodist minister, you know. Generally, there is a salvation process.
That they follow that it's similar to evangelicalism. Well, there's folks. There's false convert in the church sometime, too. Yeah.
But the United Methodist Church is basically known as being extremely liberal and It's it's cultic. Yeah, it's it's not even really Christian. There's a lot, you know, you know, I I attack Catholicism, but I also attack Protestantism.
I do I say United Methodist Church stay away, you know, I'd epistolic United Pentecostal stay away from these churches.
Yeah, panic also is a big cult. It's well and real quick. I just wanted to address That If someone is truly saved the reason why he cannot leave the faith it's because he's regenerated by God and the Bible speak about us entering into the rest of God and That God literally keep us away from falling from the faith.
So, how could you possibly leave the faith if you're truly saved. God wouldn't allow that.
But why would God want to force us to stay inside? He doesn't force us but if but he just. But this gentleman just said that God will not allow us to leave. Well, didn't the prodigal son leave by his own.
Volition. Yeah, but the prodigal son is a is a parable. I can go through it if you want a parable about the Jews versus the Gentiles. The prodigal son Represents the Gentiles and the son who stayed or presents the Jews who obeyed the law.
And they were prideful to check this out. Look at what Jesus says right here in John 6 37 to 40. He says all that the father gives me will come to me remember in Ephesians. In Ephesians 1 for He chose us in him so we're chosen by God.
Whoops go forward. Or chosen by God Before the foundation of the world, although the father gives me will come to me. So the fuck God the father is giving to the son.
Someone or some people but he also. But Jesus is also asking the father that those who he has Selected or I'm paraphrasing. He says let them not You know protect them father that they were. 17 exactly.
So why would you be asking that if you get to it Accepted that if that's what I think it's accepted. Well, let's let's look at it.
Let's go through here and then we'll go through John 17. I'll show you. Okay, everything works. See, so Jesus says all that the father gives me will come to me that there's a group called the all right.
But the one who comes to me, I certainly will not cast out. So is Jesus gonna cast anybody out. He said no. So he's not going to for I've come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
This is the will of him who sent me. This is critical right here. Okay, but of all that he's given me I lose nothing but raise it up on the last day. So notice that Jesus says that he will lose nothing.
I Will raise it up on the last day. He also says down here in verse 40 that he will Raise him up on the last day. The will of the father is that Jesus lose none?
But isn't Jesus also praying for the same thing? Why would he be praying for that? Well, this isn't a prayer right here. Not there.
John 17 later. Okay, and we'll show you what's going on there in John 17. So this is the will of him who sent me. That's the father that all that he's given me. I lose nothing. So the will of God the father is that Jesus lose none, right?
Mm-hmm. Okay, so. So anyway, so can Jesus lose any?
Well, Jesus is praying that they don't they say not in John 17 right here.
This is John 6. All right.
So then why is that. Why. Why isn't John 17?
Jesus praying. Well, no, we'll get to John 17, okay, I'm saying right here, what does it say. Okay, I can't read it. I can't okay. It says right here. This is the will of him who sent me. That all that he's given me I lose nothing.
This statement Jesus says the will of the father who sent him. Well, that's part of my eyes. Yeah, it is. Mm-hmm. He says that he will lose none. The will of him who sent me is that all that he's given me I lose nothing.
So I asked people can Jesus lose any of the ones that the father gave to him? And the answer is no because Jesus always does the will of the father. If he failed to do the will of the father, then he was sinning.
So this is one of the verses I go to to show that we're secure in Christ. Because if they want to say we can lose our salvation Then they're saying that Jesus lost them because there's a group given by the father all that the father gives me.
All that the father gives me says will come to me. So they're the ones who come to him. He will not cast out the ones who come to him. He will raise up on the last day and he says this is the will of my father.
That everyone who beholds the Son and believes in him will have eternal life and I myself will raise him up on the last day. Jesus equates eternal life with never perishing because Eternal life right there is the thing that he will raise up on the last day of what he cannot be lost.
Is this. That's what it says? Yeah, I see. We still have 17 to deal with. Let's go with 17.
Whoops. So what do you want to get to down to verse? How about this now they came to know you. They have come to know that everything you've given me is from you. Now, who's he. Let's talk up. Let's go the verse.
Okay Jesus spoke these things while lifting up his eyes to heaven father of the hours come. Glorify your son that the son may glorify you even as you gave him authority over all flesh. That to him all whom you have given him. He may give eternal life.
Okay. This is eternal life that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on the earth having accomplished the work Which I've given what you have given me to do.
Now father glorify me together with yourself. With the glory, which I had with you before the world was I have manifested your name to the men Whom you gave me out of the world. For they are yours and you gave them to me and they have kept your word now.
That word here men is Anthropocene but it's from the word Anthropos. It means man. All right so In Greek if you want to say to all kinds of people. You can say ethnos. I've give you give me to all kinds of people ethnos or.
You could say there's a there's a new neuter form. You could say.
There's a little bit. I don't know if you can sure. Okay. I just wish I could see that I could bring my back. That's okay a little bit. Yeah, that's perfect. Okay.
So, okay, we're not gonna find the word. There it is. I manifested your name to the men whom you gave me. So it's not women. It's specifically men. So he most probably is talking about the disciples. Mm-hmm.
Apostles. All right. All right. And it kept your word now. They have come to know that everything you have given me is from you for your words. Which you gave me for the words which you gave me. I've given to them.
They've received them and truly understood that I came forth from you and they believe that you sent me. I ask on their behalf. I do not ask on behalf of the world. But of those whom you have given me now, this is interesting.
It looks like the those whom you've given me are probably the disciples. He's talking about. Probably mm-hmm, not necessarily but probably and all things that are mine are yours and yours are mine and I have been glorified in them.
I am no longer in the world, which technically he is but He's making a statement here. What's going on? He's gonna be looking Right forward, right? And yet they themselves are in the world and I come to you Holy Father keep them in your name the name which you have given me that they may be one even as we are.
Well, I was with them. I Was keeping them in your name. Would you have given me and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition. So that the scripture would be fulfilled. So now we know yes, he's just talking about the disciples.
Because the son of perdition was.
I think we know Judas.
Because I was thinking I was thinking I was in Jerusalem where I was picturing this. We're in Jerusalem in the in the tour bus and we're driving along and and the tour guy goes Oh, by the way, that's the hill where Judas hung himself.
And I would looked over I could see that in the hillside and no one else got it. But I remember seeing a Judas. I remember that hill. I'm taking a picture in the hill. I find his name kind of funny but at any rate so.
So this is what now he was given. It was given to them for the purpose of being an apostle. Well, I was with them. I kept him in your name which you have given me and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of permission of Perdition so that the scripture could be fulfilled.
Now people say well that means he lost his salvation. No, because of this.
So you don't think that he had his own free will. He didn't have more choice. I love God.
Of course, no, he had free will. Oh, yeah, but there's a lot of theology. People don't know. I know I know I'm a lot of people running through the ice, right? We could just do a thing on free will sometime and we should and that'd be good.
That'd be nice. So what I do normally is I do Bible studies. I'll teach on one topic. For an hour. And then I tell people next week we talk about this and then I tell them in three to six months. You'll start getting it all and then um, you're gonna not enjoy your sermons.
You hear as much and then they laugh, but it's true. Anyway, so but there are some of you who do not believe for Jesus knew from the beginning Who they were who did not believe and who it was who would betray him?
So he's associated the betrayal with those who did not believe. Now there is a sense in which people I love this. I won't do that. But uh, there's a sense where people can believe temporarily. It's not a true belief and I can actually show that from scripture true and false repentance.
I I study the word. I study it. I study it. I study it. So anyway.
Here we go, but isn't it possible. Interruption slowly. Isn't it possible that that meaning could be as if god is on the corner of a roof? Seeing both cars coming together. He knows they're going to crash.
But they both have the free will to go forward. We'll have to discuss free will after this. I'm just i'm just throwing that out there. I'm just.
Yeah, and I think it's true and false repentance. I think it's it's been a long time. Second corinthians 10 7 or 7 10. I forgot. Yeah. So anyway. But to to now but now I come to you and and these things in the world.
Uh, I speak in the world so that they may have made my joy. I know we answered your question or not if you got to the place yet. Um that you're raising about john 17. I think you did. Okay and. So what so when we go back to colossians?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Did I do that? Okay good. I just let him mess up. So we go to colossians, uh 214. This is the thing I remember when I was seeing this. I'm reading this i'm going wait a minute. What does this mean.
And it because I knew other areas of biblical theology. It didn't take me as long to figure it out. As it did some other stuff. Because the word of god is not just something you read in two minutes sometimes and hey, I got it all figured out.
Sometimes it is but nevertheless. If he canceled the sin debt the question then becomes can you go to hell for a sin that that's canceled? What some people will say then is okay matt and what he did was.
He canceled the sin debt up to the point when you believe because they'll often go here. If we confess our sins he's faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness so.
They say see. If you don't confess your sin, you're not forgiven. And I tell people I warn them don't adopt that as a legalistic thing. Because if you don't confess your sins and you're not forgiven then we're all damned.
Because we've all committed sins that we've forgotten. We've all committed sins that we've done on purpose. And we forgot we've all committed sins that we are not aware of. We've all committed sins that you're you're going to sleep at night.
This has happened to me before. I mean, I know people have done this not everybody's done this exact same thing all the time. But but you know people have gone to sleep, you know. They're thinking about the day or the day before and all of a sudden they go wait a minute.
Christ that was wrong that was a. That was unkind. You know, and they're so sleepy as they're drifting off. I got to take care of them and they're out. Now they've remembered a sin. And they wake up in the morning and having forgotten it.
I guess you're not forgiven. Now, are you? You know If we confess our sins. What's this really mean? Does it mean that we have to confess every legitimate little bitty sin in order to be forgiven? Of course not.
It's a generic statement and notice what he says if we Talk about john the apostle. He's saying look guys what we do is we we confess our sins and if we do he forgives us. He's not saying if we confess our sins he forgives us and if we don't He won't.
If you miss one sin, you're out of luck. That's not what's going on there.
Right, and I don't think catholics believe that. I'm only mentioning that because we have you know catholics and protestants on our list. But i'm just wondering Where are catholics going wrong? Well where we are.
Catholics are going wrong, uh everywhere. Where.
Well, we'll get to that. I mean, you know. See when I say You know when I say catholicism is false I have my reasons for it and i'm not saying i'm the guy who's the end all but I I as you can tell. I mean i'm doing all this from memory.
I'm just showing you where these verses are. You know, i'm not bragging i'm just saying I really study and i'm not saying oh that makes me right. But I take the word of god very seriously. When you get involved in the word of god, you start learning things.
And you start going. Oh, I see what he's saying. I see what's going on.
And isn't it like isn't it like getting 10 people reading a the new york times and studying a certain editorial and getting all 10 different kinds of answers.
Well, let's let's do that then let's look at this. Now there's some protestants in here. I think you're the only catholic. Maybe it is written as you know. And by the way everybody I just want to say that you know, this is robert robert's a he's a strong catholic but He's a real nice catholic and believe it or not.
He's trusted me with admin powers on his catholic. And he's trusted me to uh. To broadcast this to his thing in order to do what we're doing here. I for him I had to have his. I didn't have to have your password.
I just had to have you made me an admin. That's all what was needed. And I was in there. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, and so he was going to trust me with his username and password, you know. And so i'm not gonna you know, of course i'm not gonna lie to him.
I'm not gonna you know. Yeah, i'm gonna do that because that's not honorable. Right. And so, you know, he's a nice catholic and a lot of catholics are not nice and a lot of protestants are not nice. They're not nice.
No, it's true. Yeah, and I try and be nice, you know, I mean because because of this. This this these verses bothered me for years. Conduct yourself with wisdom toward outsiders making the most of the opportunity.
Let your speech Always be with grace as though seasoned with salt so that you may know how you respond to each person. I wasn't doing that. Also, I was trying to but I wasn't doing it as much as I needed to also this one.
With uh, the lord's bond servant must not be quarrelsome. But and i'm quarrelsome because I love to argue. Okay that can't do that. I gotta stop. I gotta just talk and I had to learn that too. Yeah and be kind to all able to teach patient when wronged and Lately, i've not been patient when i've been wrong because i've been under such stress.
My fuse has been shorter. You know, whatever i'm just admitting, you know I'm a sinner and you know with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition if perhaps god may grant them repentance. Leading to the knowledge of the truth.
I use this verse incidentally because it says god grants people to repentance. And I also use this verse. Um. You know for t would has been granted for christ's sake not only to believe in him. But also to suffer so we're granted the act of believing.
You know, but at any rate, um, they go back to colossus 2 14. If this is a sin debt, it's canceled at the cross. So the logic would require us to ask questions. Who'd he cancel it for? Did he cancel for everybody or not?
Everybody because there's only two options. He canceled it for everyone or it's not the case that he canceled it for everybody. This is called it's a logical syllogism. You guys familiar with that? Let me show you something.
Okay, i'll put this on the screen. All right. I'll make this bigger. Okay. It is the i'll make it bigger case that. So it's the case that x or it's not the case that x. So x can be anything that I ate a hamburger today that I was with my wife today that i'm talking to you right now.
Okay, uh that there's uh, you know that uh. That i'm typing the letter x you know, and so it's the thing. And the negation of the thing there's only two possibilities. It's called a true dichotomy. Okay, that's a true dichotomy.
It's either the case that x or it's not the case. Okay, so it is. It's like this either the case that or it is not the case that x. That's all it is. All right, so it's either the case that Jesus Uh. Bore everyone's sins.
Or it's not the case that Jesus bore everyone's sins you get it. This is called a true dichotomy. So it's either the case he bore everyone's sins or it's not the case that he bore everyone's sins. That's all.
Okay now show you guys something. Hmm. This is god talking. Therefore. I have sworn to the house of eli. That the iniquity. That's his sin the iniquity of eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.
Could we say that that wasn't a offering of an animal.
Okay, let me address that so people will say oh this only is reference to animal sacrifices. Okay. So therefore i've sworn to the house of eli that the iniquity of eli's house will not be atoned for by sacrifice.
By animal sacrifice or offering forever. Well, god knows that the animal sacrifices are going to be done away with. And that the sacrifice of christ coming along will make the sacrifice of the animals.
He was nine. He was ten. Invalid no longer needed. But he says forever. So if that's the case, why would he say? Just by animal sacrifices forever, it doesn't make sense. So that's why he says by sacrifice or offering forever.
Jesus is certainly a sacrifice and he's also an offering. So it cannot be the case. So this is the one that's true also. Also, I mean we could go to.
Matthew. Same for the blasphemy of the holy spirit, I guess that's where i'm going right now. Okay.
And it says here whoever speaks a word against the son of man Okay, it shall not be forgiven him. Uh, but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it shall not be forgiven either in this age or the age to come.
There's only two ages. That's another bible study. So blasphemy the holy spirit, right? So. It's not the case that jesus bore everyone's sins. Correct. It's simple logic. Yes. No one has to debate it.
No one has to worry about it. Blasphemy the holy spirit is not paid for by jesus now. All kinds of things, uh are paid for though. Could you get back?
I don't I don't quite understand. It is not the case that jesus bore everyone's sins. Well who sends ity bear?
That is a fantastic question. That right there. There is a fantastic question, okay. Who sinned to jesus bear. Let's look at this. All right. Oh, man, I just made everything go down. Let's see.
Uh. All right. My bible here. So We'll do it this way. I think i'm going to do is uh. Do a word doc.
So um. So what it is. Okay, so who does who sends a jesus bear, right? That's a very good question. So it's either Everyone or it's not everyone, right? Okay, so we know That it's not everyone. All right, so We know that that's not the case right there so we know it's not everyone.
Then who Is who if not everyone. That's the right that's the perfect question. So now we have to ask that question and we've got to think about it Because we have to ask other questions. Okay, so I'll just do it this way.
So it says this so having canceled the certificate of debt, right? So If he canceled it for everyone Logically, everyone would have to go to heaven. Right if everyone Then everyone has to go to heaven because Everyone's Sins.
Are canceled. All of them. But one could also say that christ redeemed everyone. But that doesn't mean he gave salvation to everyone. Well, and then we had to look at the word different words. Redemption and salvation are not not.
Symmetrical. Yes. That's right. That's what we would just do a study on redeem. Right do a study on salvation and this is what I will do. I literally when I write articles just your question I go. Okay.
Now I gotta do a study on on redeem I might take two days doing it. So that's that's how I learned so if it's everyone. If it's everyone then everyone has to go to heaven because everyone's sins are canceled.
Okay. But because god cannot send anyone to hell for Sins that cannot be held to their account. What does that mean. Sin is a debt, okay. Okay, so that means if you sin there's a debt you got to that you have to deal with.
It's gonna be okay, that's what it is. Sin's a debt, okay. So for example Sin is a debt and we know that. From uh, first john 3 20 sin is uh, that's not 320. Oh, come on. Oh, man, I hate that when I have when that happens my brain.
First on 320 is he knows all things for john 3 4. Sin is is lawlessness. Okay, and jesus said in um Matthew 6 12. He said forgive us our sins. Okay, or excuse me our debts and uh in uh, luke 11 4 You know our father heart in heaven.
He said forgive us our sin. So jesus equated sin with debt. Jesus equated sin with debt in The prayer our father of heart in heaven hallowed be thy name, okay, I agree with that. Yeah and so sin is a legal debt and He bore our sins in his body.
Mm-hmm on the cross. Okay. Yeah, that's because it says that in first peter 224 all right so. Remember jesus cancelled the certificate of debt. The certificate of debt which is again It's a legal iou of indebtedness so sends a legal debt.
Okay so If he cancelled the sin debt for anybody for everyone then nobody could go to hell. Because there's no sin to hold to their account. It wouldn't be right for god to send him to hell. Because they have no sin matt.
Couldn't we say that? You know. He he didn't die for the sin of blasphemy of the holy spirit. Can we say that dying in a state of unbelief is blasphemy of the holy spirit?
No blasphemy of the holy spirit in the context of john, uh, matthew 12 22 to 32 is saying that jesus did his uh miracles by the power of the devil. That's what he's saying. Okay, we can go through that if you want but unbelief right.
People's unbelief, right? What do atheists do?
They don't believe in god they deny god.
Unbelief. Right, but I don't think they know what they're saying. Do you believe do you agree?
Well, no, they do. I talked to many atheists. I talked to hundreds and they know they're and they deny god and so. But some of them become christians. So that if that was the case their unbelief would never be the case plus.
You know, what about some of us before we became christians we believed in god we were unbelievers our unbelief, right? So, you know, it wouldn't make any sense to say unbelief is the blasphemy of the holy spirit.
It is not okay now. So can g can god send anybody to hell for a sin that that doesn't exist. The answer is no. Here's an illustration of something I call him coma man. Coma man coma man. He he he's a he's a guy he lives by himself and uh every month on the first of the month.
Uh, unless it's a weekend. He goes he walks to the bank a few blocks. He gets a coffee. He walks to the bank. It's a ritual. He's been doing it for years the tellers know him and he he gives his check to the teller.
He loves doing this. And he's been doing this for years on one day on the way there, um. He's he's uh car accident happens and he you know, he's hit and he's in a coma. He's in a coma for an entire month.
And so he misses his payment. All right, they're not going to foreclose because he didn't get time. But anyway. A philanthropist hears about this guy's problem. And the philanthropist goes into the bank.
And talks to the bank manager and says he wants to pay off this guy's entire mortgage of his house. He pays it off. Now the man is still unconscious. He doesn't even know that it's happened, right? But it's happened not because of the man's participation.
But because of the philanthropist's goodwill now. Once the debt's paid. Is it really paid? Answers. Well, yeah. Does the debt exist anymore? No, it doesn't. Well a miraculous thing happens coma man wakes up.
And he realizes that he's got to make his payment and so he. You know the next day that he gets dismissed. It was a miraculous recovery. He he walks on over to the bank with his check and he puts the check to the teller and explains why he was late and The teller says oh your your debt's been paid.
It's canceled. Mm-hmm, and he says why I got to pay it myself. There's no way to do that. If the bank took his check for that payment, that would be wrong. Because the debt is gone. It's canceled. And it wasn't dependent upon the the coma man's um Uh belief acceptance.
Rejection or anything the fact that the payment was made was independent of his action. When we go to colossians 2 14 Jesus having canceled out the certificate of debt. Consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us.
He's taken it out of the way having nailed it to the cross. So that was done there it doesn't depend on us the efficacy. Of his canceling of the debt. Does not depend upon our belief or our baptism. Or sacraments or going forward at the church.
Okay, that's that's something we could talk about down the road.
So people will then say to me well matt that means you're born forgiven. But well, let's go up. We'll get to that first in a sec, so. Okay, so if he's not bearing the sin of everybody then he can only bear the sin of some people.
Yeah, it's either everyone or it's not everyone all of them. That doesn't work, right? So we cross that out. So it's not everyone. Well, then who did he bear the sins for. I like to think of this. Where is it.
And let's go there all that the father gives me will come to me. The ones given to him by the father. Notice this too. What's this say. Ephesians 1 4. Just as he the father chose us the elect in christ before the foundation of the world.
And then he predestined us, right choosing and predestining. It makes sense to say That jesus atoned for the ones given to him by the father. That he did not atone for everybody ever lived. Because obviously it could not be because that's true because people have lasted the holy spirit.
They're not not atoned for and Eli's house is not atoned for.
But then people want to go here. But when he was six versus four contradict, uh. Your view wouldn't it kind of be blasphemy of the holy spirit?
No, it's not blasphemy of the holy spirit, dude. Blasphemy of the holy spirit is saying that jesus did his miracles by the power of the devil. That's what it is. Matthew 12 22 to 32. All right.
All right, let me just have a minute. I don't want to interrupt but we have some people on the forum that are asking questions at that moment. Sure, if you wanted to touch a base on that for sure. Josh Uh says matt's logic does not follow.
Just because jesus died for everyone That doesn't mean that everyone receives his death. Matt is making the incorrect assumption that everyone whom jesus died for automatically receives his sacrifice.
I thought i'd mention this.
Yeah, he's not understanding the argument. He's not understanding it. We're talking about the legality of the sin that the sin that's canceled at the cross. Okay, that's what that's what we're talking about.
We're only talking about that one. Issue. No, it's god's not dead match. No, it's god's whatever that means if you guys want to type in questions what we can do.
I can do this I can put them on because there's one there's one lady that can't seem to uh video with us. So she mentioned that okay. All right.
But if we can find that I can respond to it more. Uh, what's the difference between blasphemy spirit and losing faith?
Yeah, I should maybe respond and ask him to get us a scripture passage. Okay, here we go. Here we go.
So best logic doesn't follow just because jesus died for everyone. Well, i'm not saying he died for everyone. So what she's saying is my lad my logic doesn't follow. Well, i'm not affirming that universal atonement.
I hold a limited atonement, but let's work with her position. Her position would be that jesus died for everyone. Well, what does it mean when jesus died for everyone? Okay, I don't you have to answer.
I don't think she's answering the question or facebook users asking. That doesn't mean that everyone receives his death receives a sacrifice. You mean? Yeah, that's true. This is a generic understanding of things and people across the board in protestantism understand it this way, too.
Jesus died for everyone doesn't mean they have to receive it. Yeah, it just oh, that's right but When we look at what the scriptures actually say when it says he canceled the certificate of debt. And well, what's the debt canceled at the sin at the cross?
It's a sin debt. Well, then we ask questions. If the sin debt's canceled because what she's not doing is including that in the question. Her question should say if jesus died for everyone and canceled everyone's sin debt.
That's what it should be. Then that doesn't mean everyone received his death. Well, then we have a logical problem if that's the case. Because they don't receive his death. They're still going to go to heaven right because There's no sin to hold against them.
So what they're doing here i'll show you something. What they do is this. Okay. So what we calvinists i'm a calvinist, okay what calvinists do right is we um. Let's see. We uh limit the scope of the atonement.
The others Limit I spelled the spell limit the power of the atonement. Let me explain. We believe that the atonement of christ is so powerful that For whomever it was Sacrifice was made they're atoned for their sins are forgiven.
I mean their sins are canceled not forgiven canceled. All right. So we limit the scope because we believe it's so powerful. But they limit the power. Because they'll say well, yeah, it has the ability to save you but it depends on you To apply it.
So what they're saying is this they're saying that. They're saying that the power Of jesus canceling the certificate of debt by having nailed to the cross Rests in you. Rests in your choice your belief your action.
But that's not what this is saying. It says the opposite. Now i'm going to say this a lot of catholics know I do not like catholicism. Okay, I have a lot of problems with it, but I also tackle a lot of protestants a lot of them in their errors.
And I use the scriptures To you be the standard for both for all. This is what it says. It says that now let me let me show you guys something here watch this. We maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Apart from the works of the law justified we're going to talk about that. We'll talk about this. The works of the law, right? The works of the law now. If you go here Pharisees heard jesus was had silenced the sadducees.
They gathered one of them a lawyer asked him. Which is the great commandment in the law? He said you shall love the lord your god with all your heart with all your soul with all your mind. That's deuteronomy 6 5.
He's quoting. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it. You shall love your neighbors yourself. He's quoting leviticus 19 18. On these two commandments depend the whole law and the prophets.
The law is Genesis exodus leviticus numbers deuteronomy the prophets is all the rest of the old testament. Okay now We maintain that a man is justified. We'll talk about that by faith apart from the works of the law apart from the works of the law include.
Love god and love your neighbor. This is in deuteronomy, this is leviticus the law. You're justified before god. Without the works of the law. Without loving god without loving your neighbor. People say matt you're crazy.
Well, let me ask you. Do you have to love god in order to become a christian? Do you have to love your neighbor in order to become a christian because if that's the case It's a part of right. It's part of being a christian right right.
Not.
Getting to be one. You can't be a christian without you can't Love god without being a christian. Good.
It's not the loving god that makes you a christian. Right. Right. Being a christian that enables you to love god. I think that's what catholics believe. Yeah, that's what they that's what that's how it should be.
That's what they should be. That's right. What then shall we say that abraham our forefather according to the flesh is found. For if abraham was justified by works. And what's justification mean? We'll talk about this right here.
For if abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about but not before god.
Justified in some of these words is different. It's a little bit. It's not all this it's not equivalent. Would you. Would you agree? It's from from uh.
Uh. Dicaeo Dicaeo, okay right there. It's from 1344.
What i'm saying is that justified the word justified. Is not this I mean in in the same way.
It's the same one here 1344. All right. Okay. All right. Okay, so abraham was justified 1344. By works if he was he has something to boast about but not before god. For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed god and it was credited him as righteousness.
Wait a minute credited his righteousness is in reference to what being justified. Wow. Yeah for if abraham was justified by works made right before god having righteousness. By what he does that he can boast.
Right. But not before god there's a reason for that. But nevertheless for what does the scripture say abraham believed god and it was credited as righteousness. What was credited as righteousness? His belief.
It's from the greek from the verb Pistouo. That's 4100 right there. He believed god the word faith is is it's a cognate of pistouo. So abram believed god. And what was credited in his righteousness his belief.
Now to the one who works his wage is not credited as a favor. But what is due but to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly? 1344 again. His faith is credited as righteousness.
That's what justifying means to have righteousness credited to you. That's what it means according to the context. His faith is credited as righteousness. It his belief was credited as righteousness. Now.
Look the word believe here is from the greek pistouo and the word uh Faith Is from the greek pistis. So if you noticed pistis this pistis here and pistouo. Uh, it's in the same greek root. Okay, just it's a root.
And then a decline there's so this is the verb form and this is the noun form of believing. Okay, that's that's all that's going on there. So Believe in him who justifies ungodly his faith is credited as righteousness.
Just as david also speaks of the blessing of the man to whom god credits righteousness apart from works. This is teaching justification by faith without works. Now why am I bringing this up? Because of this.
If he cancels out the certificate of debt for the elect. Who are the elect? The elect are the ones chosen from the foundation of the world right the chosen right if if. This is what I believe i'm just saying if this is true what I believe.
That the ones who were given John 637 All the father gives me will come to me, right? The ones given to him are the ones he cancelled the sin debt for. Therefore when they are born They're not born justified.
Because they have not yet believed because they believe. And that's when they're justified. But their sin debt is canceled. They're in a state called the now and the not yet. The now the not yet, which I will show you right here.
And then i'm going to pay attention to the script to see if anybody's asking questions after i'm done with here. Sorry, I didn't think about that. Um. Those of me foreknew. He also predestined to become conformed to the image of his son.
So that he would be the firstborn among many brethren those whom he predestined past tense. Those he called That's past tense. Those whom he called Past tense. He also justified Past tense and these who he justified past tense.
He also glorified. Wait a minute. Glorification is future. We've not yet been glorified. Because if you go here. Yeah, there's heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the glory of the heavenly is one of the glory of the earthly.
Is another the glory of the sun glory of the moon? Right. So So is a resurrection of the dead it is so in a perishable body is raised an imperishable body. It is sewn in dishonor. It is raised in glory.
That's why they say our glorified bodies. That's why they say we're going to be raised in our glorified bodies. Okay. From there yet. It says We've been glorified. Okay. Wait a minute. How is that possible?
Because we are not yet Resurrected to a glorified body and yet it's spoken of in the past tense. Why? Because it cannot fail in god's economy those whom he atoned for he has predestined and They are in the now the not yet state now the not yet.
He's glorified if which is the now and the not yet right here. And so He grants that they believe. For to you has been granted for christ's sake not only to believe in him but also to suffer for him we're granted belief.
And he was saying for this reason I said to you that no one can come to me unless it's been granted to him from the father. In order to come to god the father or to christ god the father has to grant it to you.
He grants that you believe he grants you repentance. Second timothy 225. That's correct. And when you believe that's when you're justified and finally. That's right. And that may we may be found in him not having a righteousness of my own derived from the law.
But that which is through faith in christ the righteousness which comes from god on the basis of faith. We have a righteousness. That's not our own. So when abraham believed god was credited as righteousness when we believe.
It's credited as righteousness as well, but it's the righteousness of god imputed to us. That's when we're justified. Okay let's see what this person said matt if we exegete properly it could be Interpreted that we were close to committing impartial sin and jesus was warning them.
I don't know what you're referencing matt and I uh, i'm not sure what the context is of that. Um, jesus doesn't say in fact committed the impartial sin. Kim, it's nice to have you on the chat roman catholics.
Love talking about atheists only they don't realize there is no such thing debt is finished because someone paid it for the coma man.
Uh I'm, just reading the trinity of an eye. Are you reading about that? Okay.
Oh, I love that. Let's see what this says. Matt is misusing colossians 2 14. It only says that jesus cancels the sin debts of believers. Where's it say of believers only? And if you do want to say that it's only the believers.
Well, i'm going to agree with you because It's not the unbelievers whose sin debts canceled, right? She says it does not teach that jesus cancels the sin debt for everyone. That's right. Okay, but he says everyone whom what does not.
Wait, it does not teach that jesus cancels the sin debt for everyone whom jesus died for what? Doesn't teach that he canceled. Oh, so you're saying then that jesus died for people? Here's a question for people who have these questions, okay, what does it mean to die for somebody?
I mean seriously, what does it mean? So if I was your professor in a in a class, I said people write a one-page paper What it means for jesus to die for you. What does it mean explain it use scripture show me?
Most people don't understand what they're saying when they use this.
What does it mean to die for somebody? Well, he's saying that you're misusing colossians 2 14.
But he's not saying how i'm missing it. He says it only said that jesus canceled the debts of the believers. It doesn't say of the believers. Okay. It doesn't say just believers. If it says believers well, then We need to imply that now I'm being a little bit narrow because this is how I think.
It does not say just believers, but it does say Whoops I'm gonna here watch. Okay, so a note popped up for something else it says this. He made you so he's most probably talking about believers. Let's work with that.
I have no problem with that. I'm saying the word believer is not there. We got to make sure that it is Taught there. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh that means while you were unbelievers right there, right?
He made you alive together with him having forgiven us all our transgressions. Having cancelled the certificate of debt. Consisting of decrees, which is how quickly taking it out of the way having nailed it to the cross.
So if we're going to say it's only believers, we gotta we got some issues to raise. Then what happens if someone doesn't become a believer till he's 50 in the year 2020. Was jesus did jesus cancel his sin debt?
Because if it says only for believers, then that would mean that 2 000 years ago. Jesus canceled the sin debt only for the believers. Which would be limited atonement, which is what i'm teaching.
What maybe you could define what limited atonement is.
Limited atonement is the teaching that jesus only legally bore the sins of the elect. Not everybody ever lived only those given to him by the father and that he atoned for them and that they will be infallibly uh granted faith and repentance and coming into a saving faith with christ and will never.
Do they have to do something by. You know, reading a little prayer like frank franklin, you know says uh, what whatever his name is. I forgot his name. Uh, uh. Graham. Is there a prayer of salvation that's involved.
No.
Yes, and no, I mean some people are they can receive christ by a prayer of salvation. Some people just. I knew a guy once who uh read the bible Passage and threw it across the room. He didn't like it.
And it just gnawed on him and he finally submitted to it and he became born again. When I was born again, uh, there wasn't any uh prayer. Well, there was actually. Uh, you know, I I prayed to receive christ as my savior.
But then there was an incredible presence of his power and his actual presence. And so, you know, I believe so some believe Dramatically like that and some believe like well, that's right. I guess I believe now don't I?
I have a I have I still have a friend who used to smoke pot all the time and uh. Went to seminary together and he said that someone's typing i'm making noises. If you're typing just mute yourself because we can hear it.
Um,. And he said that he would smoke pot every single day with his buddy and one day he went to a church someone invited him to and he walked up forward to receive jesus and Walked back to his seat didn't feel any different didn't feel anything.
He goes. Uh, whatever. And uh, he just went home. Okay, that was i'm gonna do that again. He said and he said the next morning his buddy calls him up goes. Hey, well go smoke some pot. He said no and he was stunned.
He told me he was stunned that he said no. And he couldn't believe. That he said no. He didn't want to do it and he goes wait a minute. I actually don't and that's how he realized. So some people say a sinner's prayer some people like I met a guy in jerusalem.
And he looked into my eyes. He was a bookstore owner. We got talking and he said that when he was a young boy at 17 That jesus appeared to him. And the man told me this you can take it wherever you want and he said when he looked into jesus eyes.
He knew he was god.
What do you do with that so. Now do you believe do you do you believe in something like that? Yeah, I do. Yeah. So if a g if someone says jesus appeared to me Or mary appeared to me Or the angels appeared to me Would you believe that?
The reason I believe that man is because of of.
His look his tone his words. He was speaking from his heart. And he knew instantly jesus was god in flesh. I that I can't argue with. All right, I can't argue with that. Now if you want to talk about mary things That's a different issue.
Because the only time we see anybody coming so to speak back from the dead is first samuel 28 with the witch of endor. When samuel comes back. And we also see elijah and moses coming back in the transfiguration.
And so there's three which is a trinity which is interesting and moses and elijah represent the law and the prophets and. And saul, uh got in trouble, uh in his first samuel 28 for his practice.
Invoking obviously esoteric, uh, you know with an actual right. Yeah, and it was bad news.
So Let's see if I can get this here that way there. Okay good. And so, um. Yeah, the maryan apparitions. That's a whole nother study. I can I've got i've done research on it. But anyway on this. This is why we hold what we hold.
So you when I say, you know, I believe in limited atonement. It's not because I just hey, I just I just don't believe he died for everybody. I got reasons. I have a lot of reasons who believes in unlimited.
Oh, yeah Matt. Often catholics will say why did god save matt slick and not john doe?
Yeah, that's a good question. Um, why does it save anyone and uh. The answer is I don't know. He saved he those whom he saves. He saves because of what's in god not because of what's in in us.
No, I realize that's a catholic who asks that question.
Well, here's something. Yeah, they will. Here's something to look at. This is uh romans 2 11. For there's no partiality with god and also james 2. For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes.
And there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes. And you say you pay special attention to the one who's wearing fine clothes and you say sit here in a good place. And you say to the poor man you stand over there or you sit down on my footstool.
Have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil motives? So james 2 2 through 4. What James is condemning is people showing favoritism based on person's qualities attributes.
What they possess what they are. God doesn't do that. He elected Us not because of how great matt slick is how handsome bill. Uh, tiburus is right? It's because of christ. Well, hey i'm not handsome and.
And uh, i'm not great. You're you're great, you know, but I mean from all eternity. It's from what god was in god's heart. Why did he choose one or not one another? The answer Ultimately is found here in romans 9.
For this is the word of promise at this time I will come and sir. She'll have a son. And not only this but there was rebecca also when she had conceived twins by one man or father isaac. For though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad.
They're not yet born. No good or bad nothing. So that god's purpose according to His choice would stand. Not because of works, but because of him who calls it was said. To her the older will serve the younger just as it is written.
Jacob. I loved and he saw I hated. He go. Whoa. So he loved one and hated another not because of their works not because of anything in them. That's what it says. And then people are going to complain.
And they're going to say. They're going to say that's not fair. It can't be the case. Well, that's what it says right here. What shall we say then there is no injustice with god. Is it may there never be.
Why would you why would he ask that question. Because of what he just said. If you read this in such a way to say well jacob is the nation of jacob and esau is the the nation of esau. And that individual free willed people in both those tribes are the ones that made their choices.
Then there's no need for this objection. Is there? That means that's not what's being taught. Because if you understand what's being taught you've got to raise the objection. Hey, wait a minute that's not fair.
Why would god. Why would god love one and hate another. Anything good or bad nothing. And he continues For he says to moses. I will have mercy on whom. That's a singular in the greek. Who is someone. I'm hearing noises click click click noises.
Let's see. Can you. I think it's you bill. Could you mute your mic?
Yeah, i'm on. I'm on my phone. So I don't i'm not typing. No. No, I don't hear anything.
I'm hearing. Like that you guys don't hear that. No, no, let's say when it happens again, come on. Are you hearing it? None. No, i'm not hearing. No wait. I heard it. There we go there. There. So you guys are hearing it too in the chat.
See there it is a little bit again. I have. I have a mechanical valve in my chest. I don't know. I hope you're not.
Maybe that's what it is. I'm gonna start calling you franken starts for frankenstein. Okay. All right now and that makes sense. Okay, okay. That's what it is. Okay. So here we go for he says to moses i'll have mercy on whom I have mercy.
I'll have compassion on whom I have compassion now. Look at this. So it does not depend upon the man who wills or the man who runs but upon god who has mercy. Boy this is hard stuff. Doesn't depend on you.
Doesn't depend on me my goodness my faith. My whatever. The one who wills right when he wants desires doesn't depend on that. Oh my goodness. For the scripture says the pharaoh for this very purpose I raised you up to demonstrate my my power in you that my name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.
So then he has mercy on whom he desires and he hardens whom he desires. Why do you pick one and not another right? Right. Well, you'll say to me why does he still find fault for who resists his will? Because if he's picking one over another.
Well, basically, you know, that's not fair. And here's his here's the answer on the contrary who are you oh man. Oh man. Individual who answers back to god the thing Molded will not say to the molder.
Why did you make me like this? Will it or does not the potter have a right? Over the clay to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use. What if god although willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his page his power known.
Endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. And he did so to make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory. This i'll be debating this on january 5th with a protestant.
Who says that this is not? About individuals it's about uh nation groups.
Okay, we should air that on the forum, that'd be great.
If you want i'm sure let that. Yeah, there'll be time to response and right and uh like that. But um so, uh, anyway, so you know I guess so. I forgot who he is. I've debated him before some other stuff.
He didn't. I don't think he did well that time. But nevertheless, so, uh. You know, this is what this romans 9 says. People say well, why do you choose you and not him read romans 9?
Yeah, but you know often people will say that's nations.
Talking about the nation. Yeah, I addressed that I addressed that. Yeah, it doesn't work because here's another thing. Uh. Well, yeah, it doesn't work. Um. So, you know it this anyway we get into that anyway you guys got questions, I mean i've been blabbing a lot.
Yeah.
Well, there's somebody here. Muguaga. Prefix. Second thessalonians 2 13 makes it clear that salvation is by faith and sanctification Not by faith alone. I don't know what it's trying to get. This one is 2 13.
Yeah. It's trying to say something here, but i'm not. Well.
I just read the scriptures where it says faith alone, but we should always give thanks to you brother and beloved lord. He's chosen you from the beginning.
Because I know that Roman. Well, and he's saying romans 3 28 should be read in context of the whole chapter. Read verse 25. It makes it clear that You know, let's do it.
Yeah for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god being justified as a gift. By his grace through the redemption, which is in christ. Jesus. Whom god displayed publicly as a propitiation in his blood through faith.
This was to demonstrate his righteousness because in the forbearance of god he passed over the sins previously committed. For the demonstration I say of his righteousness at the present time so that he would be the just.
And the justifier of the one who has faith in jesus. Where then is boasting it is excluded by what kind of law of works? No, but by a law of faith for we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
How do you understand? Apart without. Without. But it doesn't say alone. Yes, it does right here. Where. To the one who does not work but believes. We have two things work and faith, right right. Work in faith work in belief work in faith because faith is right here.
He who believes who has faith Does not work but believes. So we have belief in faith. How do we know we're talking about?
Not. How do we know. He's not talking about the works of the law. Instead of just working of love because there is a passage of scripture worked in love. Yeah.
Here i'll show you something. I'm, just wondering I'm gonna show you something here. Let's see if I can do this. Get this. No, it won't work that way. I do it this way. Let's see if this look if I can show you this I'll do it this way.
These are the 613.
Commandments in the old testament. Oh, yeah book number. It's limited because okay I have them. Uh.
Yeah, so. That's too big looks like this. Yeah. So, oh I could do this one here too that's why oh it does all of them that way, okay, whatever i'll just do this. So a tradition I guess you can see the works of the law.
Are here. All right. Reverting god the torah signs and symbols prayer and blessings love and brotherhood. These are the works of the law. Okay, not to wrong anyone in your speech. Not to carry tales not to cherish hatred in one's heart not to take revenge or bear a grudge okay, so.
You know a lot of the people, you know protestants and um. And catholics alike they bury grudges against me all the time. Which is wrong. It's wrong. Okay, but if they're gonna if they're gonna say you got to keep the law to be saved.
Well, these are the these are just loving your brotherhood. I mean don't curse another israelite. Don't put a jew to shame. Okay. Not to give occasion to a simple-minded stumble, you know, don't rebuke this.
Oh, you are to rebuke the sinner. Okay? To relieve a neighbor of his burden. Okay. Anyway the poor and the unfortunate stuff, uh treatment of gentiles to love the stranger. Do no long to a stranger marriage and divorce laws.
Okay forbidden sexual relations, of course times and seasons are to do dietary laws.
You know, I like Send me I I need to I need to look at that. That that is an awesome. Uh. What did you get? Did you get this part of your uh ensemble?
Oh, I found it on the web one day went. Whoa, that's awesome. And I just copied it because it was so great. Use this for reference. It's awesome. Yeah Yeah. Idolatry idolaters and practices uh. Do not use the ornament of any object of idolatrous worship.
Do not make idols even for others. Do not make any figures or adornment even if they're not worshipped.
I mean jeez the part about ornaments. Does that mean christmas trees?
Of course no christmas trees are okay because we like them. Okay. As a joke, but uh, we only have to read them in context and see and um.
In fact. Because I know a lot of old witnesses that say that. Yeah.
This i'm going to open this up. This is my notes on catholicism. It'll open up here in a second. That'll be good. Oh, they're good outlines on catholicism, right? Excellent. Yeah, we need it and uh. Let's get it down.
Let's get load it. It's come on. I have a lot of notes. It's not done yet a lot of good stuff. Oh, there's a lot of good stuff in there. Yeah, that's right. You know, I have Definitions. I have I can all kind of.
Anyway, it's 167 pages. All right. Wow. I I I research so people will say, uh, let's see if I can find the notes. Um.
Is all that true. What what you wrote? Is it absolutely what catholics believe and teach? This is. This is what I do. Like right here. Rumors or is it? No clarify that? Oh, no.
Oh, no, for example, I just happen to be right here. Grace is infused, right? So this is ccc1999. The grace of christ is a gratuitous gift that god makes to us of his own life infused by the holy spirit into our soul.
Okay. So that that's why I say you're quoting Nothing. Or something, okay, absolutely in fact, uh. Do I have my list? It's very fair catechism paragraphs. I I gotta up make sure I update this. These are the ones that i've quoted.
Okay. Here's stuff from the council of trent canons. I gotta this is all. At the end here. I put notes at the end I gotta put them up up there in the in the in the thing and this is what I do. So for example the apocrypha right I can go and I can look up and I index things, um atonement authority uh baptism bible catechism of the catholic church.
Catholic claims answered, you know, that's what I do. And you see i'll show you other ones too. I got all kind of topics. What is the church the eucharist? Denomination because they you know, they raise denominational issues about christians.
I had to write about that. I got to work on this some more forgiveness gospel good works. Let's see good works. The reason I brought this up as i'm looking for. Uh things out of the law, that's good. Yeah.
Yeah and um to obey god's law uh. Actual grace common, I mean sanctifying grace. So you see catholic dictionary like this is where I got that right right there. And you know the habitual, you know, this is the gospel according to rome now, this is an anti-catholic book.
When you yeah, you mentioned that right that's yeah.
But what I try and do is get the actual quotes from the actual. Uh people. Right right. Because. But sometimes I can't find a quote that that's short and sweet. You know, it might be eight pages and so.
You know, I never try and misrepresent anybody at all. Uh, so grace can be merited. This is where it says that The infused grace can be lost.
Yes, it says that. You're being kind you're being honest and genuine in what you're writing that's right.
I can see catholics. I can see catholics chomping at the bit because they'll go to james that faith without works is dead. Let's go to james but the.
First board, let's do it. We'll go to james, but look at this. We can't go on. Mormonism evolution philosophy catholicism on the canon. Slavery god's existence the one in the many some it's advanced stuff.
Uh outlines on baptism oriental orthodoxy on government on islam on outlines on people on groups and cults. How to interpret scripture is a book. I'm working on biblical apologetics, for example. Uh I'm, actually teaching through this on.
On tuesday nights on for patreon i'm going through come on, where are you should open by now? I got so many things open. Oh, okay. See calvin calvinism close that off. I'll close that out. Don't don't need to save that.
No, no. And uh. Anyway, I got lots of stuff. Okay, let's go to james. Whoever. James two. And it's almost 11 o 'clock for me. So I tell you what guys who are listening. What i'll do is i'll go through james two about the issue faith, you know, uh.
Say not by faith alone. And get questions and then as soon as i'm done just fire questions. And i'll do questions for a while and we'll call it if you want.
I'm looking for people with questions, but there's not too many.
Unfortunately, yeah, if I let them know the get request is ready then we can go through them. Yeah, i'm gonna write that down. Okay, so here The context because they're going to say this they're going to say, uh, You see the man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
That's right. That's what they're going to go to. Oh, yeah, let's read the context right. What use is it my brethren if someone says he has faith, but he has no works can That faith save him. That's a dead empty faith, right.
If a brother or sisters without clothing and in need of daily food and one of you says to them Go in peace be warmed and be filled and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body. What use is that?
Exactly even so. Faith without works is dead being by itself. We protestants go. Absolutely. You say you're a christian. Let's see it Eve okay. But someone may well say You have faith and I have works show me your faith without the works and I will show you my faith by my works.
So who's this talking about. Is it justification before god or before people. God is the vertical from us up to god. That's vertical from you to me. That's the horizontal. Oh. So is this justification vertically or horizontally before god or before people.
You have faith and I have works. Show me Your faith without the works. I will show you my faith by my works.
You believe that god is one. Well, he wants to prove. He wants to make sure that people uh, uh are witnesses to faith.
That that of his faith. Right that he has faith you believe that god is one you do. Well, the demons also believe and shudder. Yeah, they have faith they believe god, but their faith is False faith because there is no good works produced in that faith.
Okay. You want to recognize you foolish fellow that faith without works is useless. Was not abraham our father justified by works when he offered up isaac. Check this out folks. Was not abraham our father justified by works when he offered up isaac his son on the altar.
You see that faith was working with his works and as a result of the works faith was perfected. And the scripture was fulfilled which says and abraham believes god and it was credited him as righteousness.
And it's called the faith of god. Now. Wait a minute. We just covered that remember. But what does the scripture say abraham believed god and it was credited him as righteousness. What was credited him as righteousness.
Paul quotes this in romans 4. This is vertical. What shall we say then that abraham our forefather according to the flesh has found for abraham was justified by works. He has something to boast about but not before god.
That's justification before god. So his works don't justify him before god. Period that's what he's saying. That's why he then brings this up. Abraham believed god's credited him as righteousness. So this is talking about justification before god.
James is talking about justification before people because. We know and we can see that abraham believed god has credited him as righteousness. Was fulfilled by what he did because we know he believed god and he also followed through on what he believed.
We can see that his faith was real. We can see it as he lifted up the sun, you know to kill the sun. We know that. And and it said and then he quotes it and if it means now. You guys got to think about this if it means that it's not by works alone.
I mean not by faith alone, but by faith and works you got a whole bunch of problems. But if he says that then why is he then saying that abraham believed god and it was credited as righteousness? The belief was not the works.
If he's trying to say that you're justified before god by works and faith. There's problems. One of them is why would he say the opposite right here? And also. If you dare want to say that you're justified before god by faith in your works.
Galatians 3 10 Then you're lost. But what is he saying? Where is that?
I can't watch this james. 2 10 For whoever keeps the whole law is stumbles in one point to become guilty of all That's relations. 3 10 For as many as are the works of the law are under a curse For it is written curse is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law to perform them.
But catholics will say oftentimes that what you're doing is you're going from one era of of another of one letter and then you're you're kind of Contrasting with the book of james written maybe 30 years later or earlier.
So aren't you. Being out of context. You see what i'm saying? Because every letter is written for a different purpose. Yep.
And james and revel and romans were written by the inspiration of the holy spirit. That's true. Whether they're Earlier later does not affect the inspiration. It can affect some interpretations if we understand certain contexts.
But what james is talking about in verse 18? He says this is on the horizontal. But romans 4 is on the vertical.
So, why do we need to be justified before men?
What do we. Well because if you say you have faith. If you say you're a believer, let's see it. That's what james is talking about. If you say you're a believer, let's see it. The devil the demons they believe.
But they shudder. You're saying you believe. But when the demons say it they shudder, but you don't even shudder. You're a hypocrite, right?
The demons are not going to act good.
Nope, robert. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. And on your catechism 2068 said man is justified by fake baptism and keeping the ten commandments. How can you keep the ten commandments when James clearly says if you break one you're breaking them all.
Then in galatians paul says that if we rely on the works It's not the same right. It's a whole law. You're you're you're cursed. So, how's your question? Huh? What's your question? Exactly? Well, how can you keep the ten commandments for salvation?
When it clearly says that faith alone. Apart from the works law you're going back to the laws um in 2068 the catholic catechism.
I'm putting it in here. I don't think we're going to That and also just simply um. How you treat people? I mean just like what you quoted, uh from leviticus and all those that you know that that colloquy that you had uh.
Nothing was wrong with about it. I mean we we treat other people well with kindness if you have to. I mean you should. That's christian, right? You have to yeah.
Let me let me continue with this because I don't want to lose a train.
Train of thought on this don't you think you should I mean as a christian you should treat each other.
Well, is your salvation maintained on your works?
It's maintained. Well, no, but I mean but but like matt said you want to. I'll probably go a step further. But let's go with what matt said. You want to show forth your works because of what you believe.
But but the point is that james too cannot be used to say that faith and works are necessary for salvation. Because james too is not about salvation. James too is about justification before people not before god.
Because that's what he says in verse 18. You show me your faith. I show you mine. And then he's talking about that. Um. You see faith is working with his works. As a result of his works faith was perfected.
That's that's a teaching elsewhere in scripture. And the scripture was fulfilled that abraham believed god. It was credited in his righteousness. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
What's he talking about? Yeah, what is he talking about there? It's not justification before god. Paul's words. Yes, but he's not talking about justification before god, how do you know. Because paul the apostle.
Says in romans You're using one apostle against another. Really. No i'm not.
No, I don't. I'm harmonizing them J romans 4 is the vertical james 2 is the horizontal. James is not contradicting paul. Paul's not contradicting james. They're not against each other. I understand. I believe that but i'm saying.
But you're using your sort of thing. Well, james isn't saying this because paul is saying that.
And paul's not saying this because james is saying that well, it works both ways. That's right. So when I well quote romans 4 or 5 oftentimes people will come to me and say well james 2 24. Faith without works.
I mean justified by not by faith alone. So i'll say oh so then are you trying to contradict? What I just said by quoting this verse because what they'll do is they'll say well that says it's over here.
What do you think of that matt? They're actually setting scripture against each other and I tell them don't do that. You have to be able to understand both in order to harmonize them. If james is saying that you're justified before god by faith and your works.
Then why does paul say to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies you and godly is faithless credit is righteousness. Because the holy spirit inspired both. So we got to harmonize them.
Well, you can't harmonize it. Here by saying well what he really is saying is that faith and work save you. What paul really means is faith and work saves you here what he does not work but believes. His faith is credit is righteousness.
That really means faith and works is what credit is righteousness. That would make no sense. But if we go to james 2 Okay, you say well in the context. We know it's a horizontal.
But again. Let me present an example. I mean, you know, you have a lot of people who. You know a lot of young young kids who go to camps christian camps and then get saved and all that and all the time.
Grow up. And they become murderers and thieves and marauders.
Because they're false converts, there's a lot of false converts out there, but isn't that.
Looking at it backwards and saying well this guy didn't really do this and that whereas they celebrated him.
I mean, yeah, they did. They don't know if he's saved or not. They don't know if he's saved or not. So, you know, oh you're under that. Okay that yeah, it's called I call it the mamby pamby gospel the mamby pamby preaching.
You really don't realize I really do tackle protestants. Bill's heard me many times. Do I tackle protestants? Do I get on him? Oh man, I do. I do. It's not just one-sided. Catholics are evil. Therefore.
That's all I do. Oh heck. No I tackle all kinds of people and I tackle I tackle protestants a lot a lot. And so my radio show I do I'll tell you know, well not every time i'm answering questions and trying to be nice.
But i've been doing apologetics and stuff. I'll tackle them. Well, you know, some protestants are not going to like you. You know that.
Yeah. Guess how many times. Okay, don't anybody answer and we'll get some questions. So robert. My website's had a hundred million visitors. I'm on 13 radio stations. Got 50 000 people on newsletter list.
My website's accessed 24 25 000 times a day. Okay, facebook is accessed all the time. I've got 18 facebook pages. How many times do you think I get asked to speak on a yearly basis? Except for 2020. Because everybody got screwed up on a you know aside from that yearly basis.
How many times do you think I get asked to speak? Well, I would say quite a bit. Between one and two. If that. Usually it averages about once a year. Once a year and that's because I don't pull punches.
Wow I say the truth. Well catholic. I hope you're listening. Okay. Yeah, I don't get asked to speak very often and we've concluded people that we've asked they know i'm going to say it. I say I literally was preaching last night at a church and um.
So I was asked to go out there because I was going to be out there and I went and preached. Okay, that's not a speaking engagement. It's a preaching and so you know, I did that and um. You know, I just on the word.
And half the time when I preach someplace, which I don't preach very often, but when I do are they gonna ask me back? I was in a protestant church once. And I said there are good good opinion. Good, uh.
Scholars on both sides of the issue of whether the charismatic gifts are for today or not. I said that in a sermon. I was not asked back to preach anymore. Protestant church.
Calvinist church. Really? You're a calvinist. Yeah.
Robert. One more question. How come the council says? Dan mathem. Anathema, how would I put it. Someone that believes in faith alone? Let them be anathema. How can the catholic church pronounce anathema on someone?
That they believe in faith alone.
I didn't understand. I'm sorry. I'm trying to get get through that. That's okay.
That was looking at the council. Trent says that nobody believes that justified by faith alone. Let him be anathema.
Yeah, trent says that that's that's true. I mean The catholic doctrine. I'm not gonna i'm not gonna deny that. Because the catholic church's understanding of that is not what matt Slick's understanding of that is.
It's just you know, i'm gonna be honest about it. You know, i'm not gonna hurt the issue.
You know what we can talk about that sometime. Let's go through some of the questions Ryan pope or issues. Faith is credit as righteousness in baptism. Nothing says that in scripture. Mm-hmm, but it says faith is righteousness when you believe.
So here's a question I ask him Are we justified by faith. People say yes, okay. We're justified by faith because the bible says having therefore been justified by faith. Okay, watch this romans 5 1 Therefore having been justified by faith, so I ask him are we justified by faith?
What's the answer? Yes. Because it says having been justified by faith. Okay, then I ask him are we justified by faith when we have faith? Or not. People say you're justified by faith when you have baptism.
Well, then we're not justified by faith when we have faith. Uh. You need to persevere to you don't throw your righteousness away. So your salvation then depends on your goodness. To persevere is a good thing.
So you're saying you have to get baptized go through a ceremony in order to get saved. That's where faith is credited as righteousness. The bible doesn't say that.
There's a lot more to it than that. It's not just like, you know, people say baptism is a ceremonial thing. It's just it's kind of like looking at the old testament with the circumcision one Catholics believe it's baptism is more like a a pre you know I'm trying to use the word Baptism and baptism is a covenant sign.
It's a prefigurement of uh, right.
But they'll but they're saying that baptism is where you get saved at and I know first peter 3 21. Actually, there's all this stuff. But this is just it had to endure. Persevere to ensure that your righteousness isn't thrown away.
So then ryan I want you to stand in front of the mirror tonight. And ask yourself have you persevered so far. So that your righteousness is retained. If the answer is yes, I want you to watch yourself pat yourself on the back.
For how good you've been to keep yourself saved take credit. For how good you've been because you have been able to persevere. So that your righteousness isn't thrown away because of your goodness. Just make sure you give yourself some good pats on the back.
Let's get to this guy over here. What is the response to the catholic teaching Works of the law. Oh, maybe ryan. I don't know if he's a good guy. Maybe maybe I thought he was a catholic and he's not. I don't know if I did.
Sorry repeating him again. Yeah. What is the response of the catholic teaching that the phrase works of the law that appears in so often in paul and romans? Which would refer to the jewish law? Well, oh, okay.
What's response show me that in context? There's no way does it say just the jewish law the law 613 commandments.
That's how it's summarized. Well jewish law is all those commandments. It is all of it. It's everything, you know. Yeah, so when they say that.
You look at the book of numbers, you know, and then they'll say it's not works. Keeping the law is works. Well, of course it is. If it's not my works, then what works are you talking about? And whenever they i've done this before with them, I said well give me some works that are not of the jewish law.
Be kind to your neighbor. Oh, that's What. Those are the ones that works acting in love, you know, yeah, so I show them it's in the bible, uh melissa. Reposting for joanne who's awesome. If someone believes they are a christian and is one of the elect but shows no fruit.
And is one of the elect but shows no fruit then she will eventually change her ways. Yes, if they're one of the elect that means they can't be lost. They will be regenerated. If they are one of the elect doesn't mean they're saved now, but they'll be saved later.
And sometimes you can actually have people who don't have much fruit. My mom was like that there wasn't much fruit in her life as a christian and the reason was because she grew up in the depression and her mom died of cancer and her dad.
Left her and she had to she and her mom had to go out in the field and look for weeds to eat and I mean she had a hard time and so. She's got this problem and she was stubborn and it was stubbornness to survive.
There was a lot of fruit in a lot of ways that I could a lot of people back then.
They had to work for themselves or unless they didn't survive. I mean my grandmother.
Yeah, and she built airplanes during world war ii, you know. So, you know, there was some tough stuff and so she was hard. But I could see some fruit but not as much as I would like to have seen. And on her deathbed we talked about everything and she trusted in christ.
Okay, so fruit bearing is a tough one. Because how much fruit is the right amount? You know anyway, I need hope for someone I love but if she does not just pray keep praying. You can be saved and not be very fruitful.
You can be stuck in your ways and god gradually works on you. And you start showing more and more fruit. Okay Matt is using his interpretation of romans to claim that james is not saying things about salvation.
James 218 You show me your faith. I'll show you my faith. It's on the horizontal. It's just talking about justification before people. What if his interpretation of romans is wrong if it's if it's wrong then show me how it's wrong.
Well, he's saying that's why the same in paul. In second thesalonians 2 13 he can say faith in sanctification. Is paul contradicting himself?
Second thessalonians 2 13 doesn't say what he says. I think you got it wrong. But see if i'm wrong show me how i'm wrong. Out of romans I just say show me I went through verse by verse. Read the context.
Went through james verse by verse. Read the context now. We can't have them contradict each other. We have to harmonize them. How do we do it?
Why would james say that before men if he wasn't meaning it before god? Why would he say that otherwise? I mean what what do I have? Why did I prove myself to you? By showing your faith, that's what james is saying.
James 218. Oh, what's the purpose of me showing myself? Oh.
You see what i'm saying? Yeah, because what's going on in the. Because in the in the context, uh, this is where context historical context helps. So james is talking to people who are. Different places different locations in rome at the time the roman empire.
There was what's called caesaral papism emperor worship. And then in the jewish area of israel, there were people who i'm going to go in 10 minutes just so you guys know. Oh, yeah, there are people who were jews and they were.
Attacking christians. The romans didn't like the christians. So you say you're a christian? Really? Let's see it. Because in that culture, yeah, i'm a christian. And then they would hide they would run.
You say you you know, that's why he would say. He'd say uh. What use is it my brethren? If someone says he has faith, but he has no words. Can that faith save him? What faith is he talking about? Dead faith.
It's not it's not real. It's it's the faith of demons.
Hey robert kind of thinking about the four stones Jesus talked about. Now the heart.
Do you want to we always focus on one thing at a time, okay. But do you see this? See what james is talking about here. He's talking about false. It's called it. We call it in theology. We call it assentia.
Okay. Ascentia and fiducia. Okay mental assent. I think I got the wrong the word wrong. No, you got it. Okay. Heart felt true. Trust, okay. So that's fiducia, this is assentia. What we protestants teach is their justifications by fiducia not assentia.
It's heartfelt trust. Because if you really believe something down deep you behave in a manner consistent with that belief. But if you just say yeah, that's right. I believe. I believe in being honest.
Yeah, I believe in being honest. Well, no.
There's got to be an action. There's got to be an action to right which I could relate to In the catholic understanding of works as well.
Right, and and I understand that in catholicism. It does teach that. And so the thing is that's what james is talking about here. If you if you say you have faith and there's no works can That faith save you.
Now, what about save you. Doesn't that bother you a little bit? What? Why would it why would he include the word? Can that faith save you? Isn't he talking about something?
Yeah, can that faith save you before god the fake faith? Right, can it. They can't it's not really the fake faith. Assentia has no works. Right assentia. Cannot save anybody. No, it can. If a brother or sister without clothing and need and you just say go be warmed.
What use is that? That's assentia.
Right, that's that's a catholic understanding. That's that's exactly good. We're good so far.
So even so faith if it has no works is dead being by yourself. That's assentia. Okay, but someone may well say you you have faith and I have works. Show me your faith without the works. I will show you my faith by my works.
That's fiducia. That's I believe it and there's works associated because I believe it.
Okay, show me but show me there's an access show me.
Yeah, it's it's I will show you. That's what true faith does. Can someone have true faith and no works? Yes to be on your death bed. Okay, you don't have any works showing and no time, you know, you're gone.
Okay. But normally, of course, you know, come on. I've been doing this for 40 years. I have faith and what i'm doing, you know faith in christ i'm doing this. That you believe in god is one you do. Well the devil the demons believe also in shudder, right?
That's assentia. Are you so willing recognize you foolish fellow that faith without works is useless assentia. Was not abraham our father justified by works when he offered up isaac an altar. Now, wait a minute.
Are we saying he was justified by works? Without faith. His faith was not assentia. His faith was fiducia. But who's he being justified before? God. If he's justified by god, then it's saying he's justified by god by his works.
Which is a problem because because look.
Because he said was abraham uh justified in christ. Well, he switched better. Okay.
Because we know we just know from other the same scriptures the god breathed scriptures. Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in christ jesus. Even though we have believed in christ jesus so that we may be justified by faith in christ and not by works of the law.
Since by the works of the law no flesh is justified.
But isn't james comparing Going back into the old testament and saying look abraham Was dealing with god and god was telling abraham You're putting it this your son to death. So was he? Showing god, you know, wasn't he justified before god by doing something that Was actually an active.
Work. You could say well then that would be teaching. That abraham was declared righteous before god by his works. Well, that's what james said. But james can't say that. Yeah, that's interesting. Because other scriptures contradict that.
See, it's not just see this is james 2 23 through 24. Mm-hmm now what a lot of people will do and I know this because of mormonism joe's witnesses. Okay, they use these verses the same way. And I know these verses.
So what we have here for works is this. But against works by great by faith alone in christ alone. Galatians 3 28. Galatians 4 1 through 12 basically. Galatians, I mean romans 4 1 through 12. Romans 5 1.
Galatians 2 16. Galatians 2 21. Titus 3 5. We have these and there's others. But these verses that clearly say no, we're justified by faith by faith by faith because our works are stained. Our works are stained.
We're not going to add anything to god. Ought we show that we believe of course we should. Do we as protestants do we say you can have a dead faith of ascension? That's all that's needed for salvation.
We never say that Catholics accuse us of that. We don't believe that. And I know that catholics never say that you're justified by works alone. Nor do they say just by faith alone, but by faith and works.
But what they mean is by a rich real faith that produces works and it's the combination. That demonstrates who you are before god and that combined with other things you're justified before god, right?
That's a good accurate. So, right. Yeah. So I know what they say and yet. Let's see. Where is it? And yet. There's so much. There's lots. There's there's so much to take to go over. Yeah. Okay. Hold on a sec.
Where was it? Um, Okay, i'll get that and i'll get one other one and i'll make them bigger and we're gonna end this pretty quickly because I Gotta my voices aren't. We've been a long time, you know, so i've been enjoying Two over two.
Yeah, this is great. Almost two and a half hours. Yeah, okay. So My thing here.
So here we go. All right, here we go. Yeah.
The rcc says the authority. The magisterium extends also to the precepts of the natural law. Paragraph 20 70 says the natural law 10 commandments.
They get something against natural law or? No.
Because their observance demanded by the creator is necessary for salvation. Keeping the 10 commandments is necessary for salvation. What does it say then? Okay. The pre-magisterium, yeah, let me get 20 36 and 20 70.
Hold on a sec. Um.
I don't think it ever says point blank that works are necessary for salvation alone. Yes, it does. Oh not it doesn't say alone.
Okay, watch this is 20 68. That's 20 70 right here.
Right, okay, but jehovah's witnesses will believe that works are.
And they teach that faith faith in their works faith in their baptism as mormons teach. Right right, right. Mormons don't teach that. Do they?
Yes. They they believe more in a kind of a hierarchical system.
Mormons teach that you're you're saved before god by your faith in your works and you have to be baptized. Jehovah's witnesses teach you're saved by your faith in your works. But there's no baptism there's.
I can show you the documentation in both.
I haven't studied those two faiths yet. No, I have.
20 70 the 10 commandments. Oh, yeah. Yeah, i've done a lot. The 10 commandments belong to god's revelation, right? At the same time they teach us the true humanity of man. They bring to light the essential duties and therefore indirectly the fundamental rights inherit the nature of human person.
The deca law that's the 10 commandments contain contains a privileged expression of the natural law, right. The 10 commandments are a privileged expression of the of the natural law, that's right. They're got 20 30 36 specific the specific precepts of the natural law because their observance demanded by the creator is necessary for salvation.
Keeping the 10 commandments is necessary for salvation.
That means well, what context is that in? What what?
Well, we could go. I mean here's the here it is go look read the context i've done it too. We're running out of time. But um, because I do want to get going. Come on. I tell my wife 11 30 here it is getting late.
We just keep going but we could continue another time. We do this next week, you know. Yeah, you could do it weekly and uh. Yeah, but you can see where it says. The next they're necessary. It's necessary for salvation.
It's absolutely.
In the same way that james says it's necessary. But james is not saying.
Ah, is it a thing? Is it because when you go here right. Oh, I didn't I didn't put. I'm, sorry I was I was looking at my screen and reading it and I Didn't realize you weren't looking at it because I didn't put it on that one screen.
I have four four monitors, sorry. Oh, I see my bad. So this is what I was just reading right there. Oh, I see. Okay. Okay.
Can you blow that up a little bit. Just uh, sure I want to see that because I I don't know. I can't see that very well. I really want to be able to understand what it says. Okay the decalogue, yeah, I got that yeah.
Change sl. I sure does. I trust chris, uh. Scripture over tradition.
27 and 23 i'm gonna read that later too because okay right now. We don't have a lot of time to really but i'm gonna put that in there 20 and 20 36 and 20 70. Okay.
I want to read it. He's he's not this guy. Yeah, meg. Wagwa.
Uh, we could talk about that. Uh, yeah, let's talk about that a little next week later.
Yeah, if we do it next week, let's maybe we can next week. I don't know what you know, whatever.
We're gonna do right. That's a 28.
I can do the 28th. Yeah, we can do that. Yeah, people are interested. I'm not doing radio for the rest of the year. So you're not anyway. Yeah taking time off. Ah. Well, anyway, i'll close this. So you see.
There's a lot here. When I teach reformed theology I warn people I say your theology will change. Your understanding will change. Your appreciation of things will change. And I go step by step and show them.
But the catholics are so bent on works and Faith. Let me ask you Are you doing enough good works?
Before men. Can you ever do enough works before men to show what you believe to say to be saved before god. Not before god. Before you have to show your show yourself before men. How much how much goodness can you do to prove yourself before men that you believe?
That's james too. That's right. But james. But romans 4.
Right, but romans 4 there are no words nothing. There's nothing before god that we can do to be saved. That's right.
I can I can tell you that. So mcguagua. I love that call him next week. McGuagua. Perfect.
Yeah, we got a call on him next week.
Yeah, we'll we'll tackle it another time. I just got too much I can tackle it.
There's too many things to we had to maybe focus on certain things and then yeah.
And maybe they'll be more familiar to. Yeah, we can do it earlier too. We can do it earlier. You can do it earlier. Yeah, I don't mind.
This is really good. All right. All right. Okay.
All right, i'm gonna bail because it's My wife's gonna be going to bed pretty soon. So we need to do this earlier so we can quit earlier. Okay. Kicking you around. All right. All right. Okay, hey talk to you later, okay, see you guys i'm gonna end it okay, we'll see you okay.
Okay. Bye.