Matt Slick Q&A for Catholicism & Protestantism

In over my head. I think it is see what says live three seconds four or five seconds

So what's happening is it's being recorded right now, and it'll stay recorded onto your Facebook Okay, let's see my page or the forum

The one you gave me the one that we locked in for here The forum hopefully okay, but you can go you can go check you can go to your browser and go look

And then Let's go look too. Yeah, exactly. Did you just put another tab in there and just check it out yourself?

Yeah Let's see and then it takes a bit for people to come in right right right?

That's right. It's I'm wondering how that work. Oh there. Yeah, we're there, but they have to press

Okay there you are okay, we're here people have to just okay So what's gonna happen is it's gonna take a little bit

You know what I'm gonna do I'm going to mark this is pinned so that it stays up to the top.

Okay. All right Yeah, if we do that, then it'll okay. Here we go All right.

Now we're on top. Okay, so people okay, so I might as well teach you all this thing is going live It takes it'll take time for people to come in Ryan.

So I came in David Neff. I know David he came in Okay, and Jimmy Smythe.

He yeah, he's he's a Carmite Protestant warrior So there are people from the car website.

So those who don't know okay to my right is Robert Sledge and he's a

Devout Roman Catholic. Yes And we'll see we'll get this person in here and so There's a

Facebook forum full of Catholics It's a Catholic forum and they have Protestants in there And so we arrange this little

Q &A time for me to answer questions for people and that's what's going on Hello everyone

Hello. Well, how are you? I'm doing pretty good. Hope you guys are doing good, too. We're doing well.

Yes So will are you a Catholic or not or what? Of course, I'm not a

Catholics I'm leaning towards Calvinism. Okay So what we're doing here is just hopefully it's some

Catholics The Catholic forum will want to call me I mean come in they can either come in with the

URL or they can just Post questions in the forum and it'll come feed into here

So if you type something in Facebook, it'll come in and we'll see it, right?

Yeah, Matt Bell your occasional worker in a chat. Oh Oh, yeah,

I'm loud. Yeah, which chat Thomas Dickens sheets 2020 the end times.

Yeah, it seems like it doesn't it? For sure, yeah

We're getting closer every day. That's for sure. Oh, I think we are. Yeah. Yeah, we are to the end

Excuse me. I got something in my throat here. So I'm clear my throat a lot, but Maybe I'll mute myself and clear it.

There we go So Robert, this is this program I use all the time, okay, we have

I think up to ten people in here, okay David Major forum.

So hopefully that'll help a little bit, you know, hopefully. Yeah, hopefully it'll bring in some good discussions and stuff

Yeah They're not very nice sometimes Yeah, I noticed that I yeah,

I think I just got challenged to do a debate. Does God exist with a PhD guy? In that are forum.

So that's gotta be that. Yeah, that's got to be a kick in the butt that to that. I mean Incoming soon.

Yep. Okay. Well, so we'll See wait, no, you said you're leaning towards Calvinism. That's right.

Yeah I just think there's a couple problem for Calvinist and there's a couple problem for Universalist atonement those who believe that Christ died for the whole world.

There's a lot of problem there, too Okay, so what you want to ask a question we get a discussion, oh, yeah, yeah, of course first a proverb chapter 1 verses 23 to 28

Where God speak about calling people out but they refuse him and they kind of lead towards that They're they're being damned into eternal damnation

So, how could they have been called by God and refuse if God choose people and they cannot refuse his grace

Okay, let me open it up So proverbs I had a program open

I didn't want to open okay, let's see Proverbs 1 28 29

Yeah, 22 28 here. Yeah, the context wisdom is being personified in verse 20 wisdom shouts in the streets and lifts her voice in the square and so Verses 23 to 25 wisdom declares that she called out to the scoffers and the fools, etc

So verse 29 does not state that the fear of the Lord is a choice as if it implies libertarian free will you know libertarian free will is not really libertarian free will and Compatibilist free will libertarian free will

I'll go very basic is the idea that human free will is not under the direction of God and that is completely able of its own to come to Christ and Look compatibilist free will would say that our free will choices are compatible with the four ordination predestination of God We're libertarianism kind of steps back from that and says no because if God knows what you're going to choose

You're not free to choose it when it's time to choose it because you can't make any other choice But they don't understand that the logic issues there.

Yeah, I would disagree with that I know a lot of Calvin is used like let's say, you know

God know that you're gonna eat a burgers Can you change that? But my answer would be God will never have said you were gonna eat a burger if he knew you weren't gonna

Choose a burger, right? Right what I'll say basically is look he knows what you're really gonna choose because you're really gonna choose it

That's why it's not him making you choose it. You're fully gonna choose it. So you're free to do it Right, so and it's consistent with reformed theology

Colony, they will not answer Right, but I will not answer. Excuse me. They will seek me diligently, but they will stop on the face

It's about about wisdom And the con remember Proverbs is I do use

Proverbs sometimes for doctrine because occasionally you have something's very precise but here

Proverbs 1 Proverbs 8 is dealing with the issue of wisdom and It's you know, they hated knowledge did not choose the fear of the

Lord. So people will use this They'll say they didn't choose the fear of the Lord Matt That means that Calvinism is not true because the doctor total depravity wouldn't be true

Which states that they are incapable of coming to Christ on their own They have to have grace that have

God's movement upon them and it has to regenerate them And so let's say they did not choose the fear of the

Lord and I say you're right They didn't because it's they're totally depraved They did exactly what their nature would require of them because their nature is by there by nature children of wrath

Ephesians 2 3 they're dead in their trespasses and sins Ephesians 2 1 so they will not choose because they can't because they're free but they're only free to choose in a manner consistent with their fallenness and So therefore they're going to choose to do fallen things freely keep their self from sin

They choose to keep themselves in sin. This is why regeneration must precede faith

Logically, you know logical priority and temporal priority No okay, so Temporal priority because some people say there are minions in particular will say something like well

You've got to believe and then you become regenerate So there's a temporal priority.

So let's say we have a believer Who he believes and then let's just use the number five five seconds and five seconds later.

He's regenerate. Let's just say It's a temporal priority There's a Occurrence and then a few seconds later.

There's an effect That's called temporal priority but the problem with that kind of thinking and the issue of salvation or generation and believing is

That you have a believer who's not regenerate for five seconds. So that doesn't make sense

You can't have someone who's a believer and also not regenerate. So let's switch them regeneration precedes faith by let's say five seconds

That's a problem because then you have someone who's regenerate who's also not a believer you can't have that at least for five seconds

It doesn't make sense So what we we do is we say logical. I mean a temporal priority doesn't work

So we'll say logical priority is what we have to go with. Let me explain what logical priority is.

So you flip a light switch on The electricity is in the light bulb

Whenever the electricity is in the light bulb the light is simultaneous with the electricity they occur at the same time

When electricity is present light is also present, but the electricity is logically prior not temporally prior

It's logically prior in that it must be there in order for the light to be there, but they're simultaneous

So because they're just gonna be because they're a lot. It's logically prior. It's not temporally prior

So what we would say in the case of the illustration of electricity preceding light Electricity must be there in order for light to be there

And so electricity is logically prior But it's not the case that light must be there in order for electricity to be there.

Light is not logically prior They're simultaneous, but electricity is logically prior So when we talk about regeneration and faith we say that regeneration is logically prior to faith that God is the one who does the

Regenerating and we know from John 3 3 through 5 that we're born again 2nd

Corinthians 5 17 were made new creatures or John 1 13 says we're born not of our own wills to talk about being born again

Not of our own will and John 1 3 says we're born or caused to be born again

First Peter 1 3 that is so it's the work of God. He regenerates us and because he regenerates us then we believe

That's what that's what that is Yeah, and and since like, you know

Calvinist because I hold to like the the view of one save always save you know once God justify you he always justify you but I kind of hold to a view and Most because I come from a

Baptist background and they're like super anti works there But I believe like someone that's truly saved for let's say a couple years should brings fruit at least, you know

I've been a food because I don't I don't think you can be a Christian and I'm not talking about losing your salvation

But calling yourself a Christian for four years and still murder people and completely live according to the flesh

It does not seem like God has regenerate you Right to for generation precedes faith

And when we're we're believers and someone says to me, well, then you can sin all you want. Yeah, that's exactly correct

Yeah, what they forget is that we're regenerated were changed. We have a new nature and I don't want to sin

And there's an actual change so a lot of times the cults and false religious systems

They fail to incorporate this issue of regeneration of the indwelling of God the change of us by God's presence

John 14 23 the father and a son will come and in make their abode in us

This is regeneration and we're born again, so we don't want to to go out and sit Excuse me, so that's how that work and and that go goods with what

Paul says, you know, there's nothing good in my flesh What do I do? Do I hate you know? He's speaking about a big war between his flesh and his spirit that would go really good with the teaching of Paul Right, that's

Romans 7 18 through 25. He talks about that, right? Yeah, cuz I'm glad Yeah, cuz so basically

I just think this is like really they believe that literally you can be a Christian And murder people every day and still be saved.

I mean that would Position exactly. It's not what we teach It's not what the scriptures teach and when critics raise that objection, they tell me they're without knowing it

They're telling me they don't understand the position. They're attacking now. Here's the thing because of what

I do for a living If I tackle atheists, I have to know atheism if I tackle Islam, I gotta know

Islam if I tackle Catholicism I got no Catholicism Mormonism. I got to know Mormonism Jehovah's Witnesses. I got to know

Eastern Orthodoxy I have no evolution information theory logic I have to know all kinds of things be able to talk their language to build and know what they're saying

That's great. I don't get all of it right all the time But what happens a lot of time is the critics of say

Calvinism. They never study Calvinism They never study what it actually teaches. They just hear caricatures and then they attack it

Yeah, and so I'm required to study their positions, but they don't study our position

They just it's not on it and they say well, you know, I'm not gonna listen to you. Well, yeah

Why do you you know, don't don't come and argue with me We don't even know what you're talking about. If you're gonna say

I don't understand something. What does it mean? I'll say this is the reform perspective. Here we go.

And if you disagree, okay disagree, you know, but that's it Yeah, cuz Calvinist when you look a bit like when you don't know about it

It seems such a heavily doctrine and seem to make God so evil. I mean it just it just Yeah, it's like the theology that if Christ died for sin

How can you go to hell if you're forgiven for all your sin surely does not make sense, right?

well, if you go to first Peter 2 24 I can share the screen and show you guys scriptures if you want

In fact, I'll do that show you guys what else this thing can do. Mm -hmm. All right, let's see watch so There you go.

So you see that Robert, isn't that cool? Yeah But it's all

Hey, what I'll do is I'll make this bigger. Yeah, and which I can do very easily website.

Is that This is my Bible program Logos, okay So you have to agree you were everything right

I have commentaries I get all kinds of stuff and so anyway for example Well, oh, yeah first Peter 2 24, right?

So we're talking about the Atonement right first Peter 2 24 and He himself. I hope you guys can see that.

Okay, what I can do is this That that even better. Oh, yeah All right

He himself bore our sin in his body in the cross that we might die to sin and live to righteousness for by his wounds

We are healed. Okay. So the Bible says he bore our sins in his body in the cross Now I'm gonna

I'll do some teaching on this and put this all together here. Watch this Now this is

Matthew 6 12, this is where Jesus Jesus says it said teaches how to pray He says our Father who is in heaven

How I'd be that your name your kingdom come your will be done on earth as it is in heaven Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our debts

See that right there that we're debt Okay No, yeah as trespass is a transgression of the law this is and that's a

Proponent nuts not it might be proper Tomate. Anyway, I don't I forgot. This is the Greek work

Ophelia ma right here Ophelia ma and it means debt. So what I can do is click on this and It shows up over here to owe debt that which is owed

Strictly do that's a debt as Matthew 6 12. So this is what Jesus says right now watch this

Father how to be your name your kingdom come give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our sins

That's the Greek word her martyrs which means sin So wait a minute Jesus in one place says forgive us our sins another place.

It says forgive us our debts So debt is legal Debt sin is a legal debt because watch this first John 3 4

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness Because sin is lawlessness to break the law is sin.

So sin is a legal debt when you go to John 1930 Therefore when

Jesus had received the sour wine, he said it is finished. Okay, it is finished right there

That's the Greek word to tell us die right there to tell us die and The word

To make an end to or accomplish to complete make something. Okay, bring it to do

Now I've got the documentation someplace, but I could find it. I got a big document on all kinds of stuff.

But anyway This Greek word to tell us die has been found handwritten on ancient tax receipts

Signifying a legal debt that's been paid in full So here's what's interesting

Jesus was made get this Galatians 4 4 when the fullness of time came

God sent forth his son born of a woman born under the law So Jesus was born under the law

Right, and he said it is finished a legal statement Sin is lawlessness and he equates

Sin forgive us our sins as we forgive those who are indebted to us.

Actually, that's the word of Philemon again So here Jesus equates sin with legal debt and forgive us our debts we forgive our debtors right from this thing

So when we understand that he bore our sin in his body in the cross What we have to see is what he's doing is having our sins imputed to him to impute and so to impute

Means to reckon to another's account. All right to reckon to another's account legally now watch this

Watch this to 13 and 14 when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh

He made you alive together with him having forgiven us all our transgressions now

Having forgiven us all our transgressions. Oh Transgressions.

Yeah, I was right. It is part of Tomata so a transgression or up Tomata You see having forgiven us all our law -breaking

Having canceled out the certificate of debt Now I'm going to spend some time on this this right here

Certificate of debt is this word right here? care Agra fund right here in the middle Care that's the word.

I'll go to the English care is the word hand graph a writing care

Agra fun. All right It is right here hand,

I'm sorry to write handwritten record of debt a note written by the hand which makes one's

Obligated to fulfill what is written? That's what it is So it's the care

Agra fun is a handwritten IOU of Legal indebtedness and it's it only occurs right here in the entire

Bible Here's a trick I can do. So it's five four nine eight. That's the Greek word five four nine eight so I can go over here

Five four nine eight and it only occurs right there In that one verse so like the word decree, for example dogma right 1378

I'll just show you what this program can do. It's really cool so just one three seven eight, right so it occurs five times and Exactly every place and I can just click on a verse and it shows me what it is and I can read and do exegesis

Okay, so no big deal. That's what I can do now So having canceled out the certificate of debt.

Now, here's a question What is the certificate of debt Because it's a certificate of debt is related to this

Having forgiven us all our transgressions having canceled up a certificate of debt

The question then is is the debt the sin debt because per optima to is a transgression of the law

Jesus says in Matthew 11 6 11 6 no 6 12.

Sorry. He said forgive us our debts and Luke 11 for forgive us our sins

So Jesus equates sin with legal debt He bore our sins in his body in the cross legal debts could be transferred

So if like Robert and the screen, you know Earlier if Robert and I go to lunch and I say

Robert, I'm gonna buy you lunch, you know And I buy him lunch, right and I hand my card to the to the waitress afterwards

And for some reason the card won't work. Maybe they put a hold on it Maybe you know the bank said hey, we've got some funny action on it.

They canceled the car. They put a hold on it I can't pay the debt now, but Robert could reach into his wallet because he's a really nice guy and he pays my bill and so my my debt could be transferred to him so to speak and So because legal debts are transferable and notice what

Jesus said in 1st Peter 224 what it says in to persuade 224.

It says he himself bore our sins in his body in the cross How is that possible our sin that was transferred to him?

right on the cross right now when we go back to Having canceled the certificate of debt

It makes sense to say that it is the sin debt because look what it says Consisting of decrees which is against us hostile to us

And what are these decrees these dogma, right? Well the dogma which I happen to put down here are these these it only occurs five times they

Now in the days of decree went out from Caesar Augustus So it's a legal statement now when we were passing through the cities don't if you guys can see that I'll put it up here

We were passing through the cities They were delivering the decrees which have been decided upon by the Apostles and the elders

These are official statements of the obligation 17 -7 of Acts and Jason was welcomed them and they all act contrary to the decree of Caesar.

Okay another legal thing Ephesians 2 15 by abolishing in his flesh the enmity which is the law of Commandments contained in ordinances

That's the word dogma So that he in himself he might make the two into one new man That's the

Jew and the Gentile which is the law of Commandments contained in the ordinances so when we go back to Colossians 2 14

When we look at all of this, we look at the what's called the semantic domain of the word dogma in the

Greek This couldn't mean law, couldn't it? What yet that's I'm going to show you it could mean the law that's written and it could mean the sin debt

Either one, right? So let's work with it because either one those are the two options the decrees could be don't lie don't steal

But if you break the decree the law of God you have a sin debt right

Those a certificate of debt is the the thing that you do that you break. So look at this

I'm gonna I'm gonna do some teaching here for a little bit. This is Exodus 20 watch this this is

The Ten Commandments now there is what's called a suzerain vassal treaty pattern of the third millennium

BC and What it is is a covenant pattern where the big king would say to the little king.

This is who I am This is what I've done I'm the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt as a slavery and the stipulations

You shall have no other God before me shall not make yourself an idol or like us what's that heaven earth, etc

You shall not worship them or serve them for I the Lord of God am a jealous God the stipulations and then the

Punishments for breaking it Visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children on the third and fourth generations to all who hate me

But showing kindness to the thousands who love me. So if you keep the Obligation you're okay.

If you don't He visits iniquity on you. You shall not take the name of the

Lord your God in vain He will not leave him unpunished who does that so there's stipulations and punishments for breaking the stipulations

Remember this day of Sabbath day to keep it. Holy six days. You shall work with the seventh day You shall not work not do any work your sons your everybody.

Okay Six days the Lord made the earth and heaven and he rested honor your father and your mother that your days may be prolonged you do

That there's a reward You should not murder commit adultery steal, etc so I'm just trying to show you is that the

Ten Commandments are a legal document a covenant document and Covenant documents each party gets a full document

The two tablets are ten and ten not six and six or six and four or five and five

They're ten and ten Because a member of each party got the covenant got the the documents and the

Ten Commandments were put in the Ark of the Covenant Which is under the mercy seat in the Holy of Holies, which is where God himself is was a footstool the mercy seat

So it's in the presence of God, but the Ark of the Covenant was in the presence of people So therefore the two parties involved in the covenant relationship now, let me go back

So if we were to say that this is the law I'm going to show you guys something. Okay, if we say that the certificate of debt the chirographon is the law then we have an issue

Romans 5 13 For until the law sin is in the world, but sin is not imputed

When there is no law Now, wait a minute Sin is not imputed when there is no law.

So if This means the law Okay certificate of that consisting of decrees now we'll see the rest of it which was hostile to us

You're taking it out of the way having nailed to the cross. So when was the certificate of debt canceled at the cross

Mm -hmm. Okay. It's not canceled when you believe It's not canceled when you get baptism get baptized.

It's not can't cancel when you go to church or take communion It's canceled by Jesus at the cross

That's what the text says It's not me Arguing about it.

It's not me interpreting. That's what it says. I Show this it doesn't have an agreement about certain semantics, but you know, yeah

So let's work with the two options if it's the law that's canceled. Then we have the issue of Well, there is no law the laws canceled.

So sin cannot be held accountable to us That's a problem, isn't it? Mm -hmm

But sin still around so doesn't quite make sense to say that What if it's the sin debt the actual debt of sin that's canceled at the cross

Now we got logical issues to raise Because I ask people questions if the sin debt is canceled at the cross

Can you go to hell? No Because the sin debt doesn't exist anymore.

Well people say to me well Matt they have to accept it No, they don't because the validity of the certificate of debt being canceled is not dependent upon our faith is

Dependent upon the action of Christ His death on the cross is where the debt was canceled.

It was canceled when he did this Mm -hmm Show you guys something else

Romans 6 6 Knowing this that our old self was crucified with him

Well, when was our old self crucified with him? When we're baptized when we take communion when we confess

Christ when we repent When we walk forward up at an all at the altar and a

Baptist Church Is that we were crucified with Christ? Well, it says crucified with him, right?

Because it says here knowing this that our old self was crucified with him in order that our body of sin might be done away with so that we should no longer be slave to sin for he was died is

Freed from sin now if we have died with Christ We shall believe we believe that we also shall live with him.

Wait a minute What's going on here to have died with Christ to be crucified with Christ?

Well, wait, what does that mean? When is it that we were crucified with Christ? When is it that we died with Christ?

well He died 2 ,000 years ago So this is

I could go into other theology here I don't get too far off the track it back to Colossians 2 14, but the thing is

He represented us we died with him That's what happens. We died with him.

We're crucified with him Okay now We go back to this the sin debt if the sin that is canceled

You cannot be held responsible for a debt that does not exist anymore What if you backslide you backslide all your sins are taken care of so Was it say there's a confusion though?

Because what about Anglicanism today some of the people, you know,

I Gay marriage, for example at one point they were you know

You know, they were saved or not saved I mean we can say saved but in what at one point they were they were

Following God's decrees or God's laws and then they decided well, you know what we're gonna slip we're gonna change

We're gonna interpret something differently Which we call sin They would how do we how do we understand that They were not from us, but they were not really of us for if they had been of us

They would have remained with us, but they went out so that it could be shown that they were not all of us

But at one point they were Now if someone was saved, here's the problem

There are there are problems now i've had to wrestle with this for years and i've solved the problem

Not not just me, but you know Reform theology solves the problem and you guys say it doesn't but I've been debating this for years and years decades, literally so I say it solves a problem

Bill if you can mute yourself you got noise. Let's see Let's see. See see whatever. Okay. So Here's the thing.

I'll have to explain it That god i'll do this. Look at this Go to ephesians 1 4

Just as he this is really important right here. This is a very critical verse right here That this part of this verse ephesians 1 4

Just says he chose us in him before the foundation of the world

He is the father Who chose us? That's the elect because that's the word eclektos right here from uh, from uh, excuse me from uh, eclegami

To be chosen eclegami Eclegami and he chose us in him that's in christ

So he chose us that means a father chose us in christ before the foundation of the world

This is really significant right here He chose us In christ in christ as a sign of what's called federal headship

Federal headship means that the male represents the descendants If you go to first corinthians 15 22

In adam all die In christ all shall be made alive

In adam as a term of federal headship in christ as a term of federal headship So they're different All they're different alls because the only ones who are made alive

Are the christians? All right, go to romans 5 18. I could get too deep into this with you But but I want to I want to interject if I can

I have a question Okay, take a man like jim jones the guyana tragedy.

I don't know if everybody's aware that I bring this up all the time So he was a united methodist minister now

Jet i'm sure that there were ministers that came to him Knowing he was saved No, he wasn't saved.

But but but to become a united methodist minister You know

Generally, there is a salvation process that they follow that it's similar to evangelicalism

Well, there's folks there's false convert in the church sometime, too Yeah But the united methodist church is basically known as being extremely liberal

And in some quarters, it's it's cultic. Yeah, it's it's not even really christian

There's a lot of you know, you know, I I attack catholicism But I also attack protestantism

I do I say united methodist church stay away united apostolic united pentecostal stay away from these churches

Yeah, pentecostal is a big cult Yeah, it's well and real quick. I just wanted to address that um

If someone is truly saved the reason why he cannot leave the faith Is because he's regenerated by god and the bible speak about us entering into the rest of god

And that god literally keep us away from falling from the faith So how could you possibly leave the faith if you're truly saved god wouldn't allow that But why would god want to force us to stay inside?

He doesn't force us. But if but he just but this gentleman just said that god will not allow us to leave

Well, didn't the prodigal son leave by his own Volition. Yeah, but the prodigal son is a is a parable.

I can go through it If you want a parable about the jews versus the gentiles the prodigal son represents the gentiles and the son whose state represents the jews who obeyed the law

And and they were prideful. So check this out. Look at what jesus says right here in john 6 37 through 40

He says all that the father gives me will come to me now remember in ephesians

In ephesians 1 4 He chose us in him

So we're chosen by god Whoops go forward We're chosen by god

Before the foundation of the world all that the father gives me will come to me. So the god the father is giving to the son

Someone or some people But he's also but jesus is also asking the father that those who he has

Selected or i'm paraphrasing He says let them not

You know protect them father that they would 17 Exactly. So why would he be asking that if he already?

Accepted that if that's already It's accepted well, let's let's look at it. Let's go through here and then we'll go through john 17 i'll show you

Okay Everything works See, so jesus says all that the father gives me will come to me that there's a group called the all right

But the one who comes to me, I certainly will not cast out So is jesus going to cast anybody out?

He said no So he's not going to For i've come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me

This is the will of him who sent me this is critical right here Okay, but of all that he's given me

I lose nothing but raise it up on the last day So notice that jesus says that he will lose nothing

I will raise it up on the last day. He also says down here in verse 40 That he will

Raise him up on the last day The will of the father is that jesus lose none?

But But But isn't jesus also praying for the same thing? Why would he be praying for that then this isn't a prayer right here?

Not there John 17 later. Okay, and we'll show you what's going on there in john 17

So this is the will of my of him who sent me that's the father that all that he's given me. I lose nothing

So the will of god the father is that jesus lose none, right? Okay, so So anyway, so can jesus lose any

Well, jesus is praying that they they they stay not in john 17 right here

This is john 6. All right So then why is that why why isn't john 17?

jesus praying Well, we'll get to john 17. Okay. I'm saying right here.

What does it say? I can't read it. I can't read it. I can't okay. It says right here.

This is the will of him who sent me That all that he's given me I lose nothing

This statement jesus says the will of the father who sent him that's part of my eyes

Uh, yeah, it is He says that he will lose none The will of him who sent me is that all that he's given me

I lose nothing So I ask people Can jesus lose any of the ones that the father gave to him

And the answer is no because jesus always does the will of the father If he failed to do the will of the father then he was sinning

So this is one of the verses I go to to show that we're secure in christ Because if they want to say we can lose our salvation then they're saying that jesus lost them

Because there's a group given by the father All that the father gives me All that the father gives me he says

Will come to me So the ones who come to him he will not cast out the ones who come to him

He will raise up on the last day And he says this is the will of my father That everyone who beholds the son and believes in him will have eternal life and I myself will raise him up on the last day jesus equates uh eternal life with never perishing because Eternal life right there

Is the thing that he will raise up on the last day Of what he cannot be lost It's just that's what it says

Yeah, I we still have 17 to deal with let's go with 17 Whoops.

All right. So what do you want to get to down to verse? How about this now they came to know you

They have come to know that everything you've given me is from you now, who's he let's talk about let's go to verse. Okay Jesus spoke these things while lifting up his eyes to heaven father of the hours come

Glorify your son that the son may glorify you even as you gave him authority over all flesh

That to him all whom you have given him He may give eternal life. Okay This is eternal life that they may know you the only true god and jesus christ whom you have sent

I glorified you on the earth having accomplished the work Which i've given what you have given me to do now father glorify me together with yourself

With the glory, which I had with you before the world was I have manifested your name to the men

Whom you gave me out of the world For they are yours and you gave them to me and they have kept your word now that word here men

Is anthropo or it's anthropois, but it's from the word anthropos It means man, all right

So In greek if you want to say to all kinds of people You can say ethnos

I've give you give me to all kinds of people ethnos or you could say there's a there's a neuter form you could say, uh,

There's just a little bit. I don't know if you can sure Okay I just wish

I could see that I could read about that. That's okay a little bit. Yeah, that's perfect. Okay So, okay, we're not going to find the word there it is.

I manifested your name to the men whom you gave me So it's not women it's specifically men

So he most probably is talking about the disciples apostles All right

And they've kept your word now They have come to know that everything you have given me is from you for your words

Which you gave me for the words which you gave me i've given to them They received them and truly understood that I came forth from you and they believe that you sent me

I ask on their behalf I do not ask on behalf of the world But of those whom you have given me

Now, this is interesting. It looks like the those whom you've given me are probably the disciples. He's talking about probably

Mm -hmm Not necessarily but probably and all things that are mine are yours and yours are mine and I have been glorified in them

I am no longer in the world which technically he is but He's making a statement here.

What's going on? He's gonna be looking Right forward, right? And yet they themselves are in the world

And I come to you Holy father keep them in your name the name which you have given me that they may be one even as we are

While I was with them I was keeping them in your name Would you have given me and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition

So that the scripture would be fulfilled So now we know Yes, he's just talking about the disciples

Because the son of perdition was um I think we know judas

Right Because I was thinking

I was thinking I was in jerusalem where I was picturing this We're in jerusalem in the in the tour bus and we're driving along and and the tour guy goes

Oh, by the way, that's the hill where judas hung himself And I looked over I could see the you know, the hillside and uh, no one else got it

But I remember seeing you know judas. So I remember that hill i'm taking a picture in the hill. I forgot his name kind of funny but at any rate so So this is what now he was given

It was given to them for the purpose of being an apostle While I was with them

I kept him in your name which you have given me and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of permission Of perdition so that the scripture could be fulfilled now people say well that means he lost his salvation

Uh, no because Of this

So you don't think that judas had his own free will he didn't have the choice to follow god

Of course, no, he had free will. Oh, yeah, but there's a lot of theology people don't know. I know

I know I'm just a lot of people kind of cutting through the ice, right? We could just do a thing on free will sometime and we should yeah, that'd be good.

That'd be nice So what I do normally is I I do bible studies.

I'll teach on one topic for an hour And then I tell people next week we talk about this and then

I tell them in three to six months You'll start getting it all and then um, you're gonna not enjoy your sermons

You hear as much and then they laugh, but it's true Anyway, so but there are some of you who do not believe for jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe

And who it was who would betray him So he's associated the betrayal with those who did not believe

Now there is a sense in which people I love this. Well, I won't do that. But uh, there's a sense where people can believe temporarily

Not a true belief and I can actually show that from scripture true and false repentance I I study the word

I study it. I study it. I study it. So anyway Here we go, but isn't it possible

Interruption slowly Isn't it possible that that meaning could be as if god is on the corner of a roof?

Seeing both cars coming together He knows they're gonna crash But they both have the free will to go forward

We'll have to discuss free will after this. I'm just i'm just throwing that out there. I'm just Yeah, and I think true and false repentance.

I think it's it's been a long time second corinthians 10 7 or 7 10. I forgot Yeah, so anyway

But to to now but now I come to you and and these things in the world Uh, I speak in the world so that they may have made my joy

I don't know if we answered your question or not if it got to the place yet um That you're raising by john 17

I think you did okay and So what so when we go back to colossians?

Oh yi yi. Did I do that? Okay good. I sometimes I mess up So we go to colossians, uh 214

This is the thing I remember when I was seeing this I'm reading this i'm going wait a minute

What does this mean and if because I knew other areas of biblical theology

It didn't take me as long to figure it out As it did some other stuff Because the word of god is not just something you read in two minutes sometimes and hey,

I got it all figured out Sometimes it is but nevertheless If he canceled the sin debt the question then becomes can you go to hell for a sin debt that's canceled?

What some people will say then is okay matt then what he did was He canceled this the sin debt up to the point when you believe because they'll often go here

If we confess our sins he's faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness so They say see

If you don't confess your sin, you're not forgiven And I tell people I warn them don't adopt that as a legalistic thing

Because if you don't confess your sins and you're not forgiven then we're all damned Because we've all committed sins that we've forgotten

We've all committed sins that we've done on purpose And we forgot we've all committed sins that we are not aware of We've all committed sins that you're you're going to sleep at night.

This has happened to me before I mean, I know people have done this not everybody's done this exact same thing all the time But but you know people have gone to sleep, you know, they're thinking about the day or the day before and all of a sudden they go

Wait a minute Christ that was wrong that was a That was unkind, you know, and they're so sleepy as they're drifting off.

I got to take care of that and they're out Now they've remembered a sin And they wake up in the morning and having forgotten it.

I guess you're not forgiven. Now. Are you? He's if he if we confess our sins

What's this really mean? Does it mean that we have to confess every legitimate little bitty sin in order to be forgiven?

Of course not It's a generic statement and notice what he says if we Talk about john the apostle

He's saying look guys what we do is we we confess our sins and if we do he forgives us

He's not saying if we confess our sins he forgives us and if we don't He won't if you miss one sin, you're out of luck.

That's not what's going on there Right, and I don't think catholics believe that i'm only mentioning that because we have you know catholics and protestants on our list

But i'm just wondering Where are catholics going wrong? Well, where we are catholics are going wrong

Everywhere Well, we'll get to that I mean, you know See when

I say You know when I say catholicism is false I have my reasons for it and i'm not saying i'm the guy who's the end all but I I as you can tell

I mean i'm doing all this from memory. I'm just showing you what these verses are You know, i'm not bragging i'm just saying

I really study and i'm not saying oh that makes me right But I take the word of god very seriously

When you get involved in the word of god, you start learning things And you start going. Oh, I see what he's saying.

I see what's going on but isn't it like isn't it like getting 10 people reading a the new york times and studying a certain editorial and getting all 10 different kinds of answers

Well, let's let's do that then let's look at this Now there's some protestants in here. I think you're the only catholic.

Maybe it is written as you know And by the way, everybody I just want to say that you know, this is robert robert's a he's a strong catholic but He's a real nice catholic and believe it or not.

He's trusted me with admin powers on his catholic And he's trusted me to uh to broadcast this to his thing in order to do what we're doing here

I for him I had to have his I didn't have to have your password. I just had to have you made me an admin.

That's all what was needed Then I was in there. Yeah, that's right Yeah, and so he was going to trust me with his username and password, you know and so i'm not gonna you know, of course i'm not gonna lie to him i'm not gonna you know,

Abuse anything, right? Yeah, i'm gonna do that because that's not honorable. It's not what god would want, right? And so, you know, he's a nice catholic and a lot of catholics are not nice and a lot of protestants are not nice They're not nice.

No, it's true. Yeah, and I try and be nice, you know, I mean because because of this This this these verses bothered me for years

Conduct yourself with wisdom toward outsiders making the most of the opportunity. Let your speech

Always be with grace as though seasoned with salt so that you may know how you should respond to each person

I wasn't doing that Also, I was trying to but I wasn't doing it as much as I needed to also this one

With uh, the lord's bond servant must not be quarrelsome But and i'm quarrelsome because I love to argue

Okay, they can't do that. I gotta stop. I gotta just talk and I had to learn that too.

Yeah and be kind to all able to teach patient when wronged and Lately i've not been patient when i've been wrong because i've been under such stress.

My fuse has been shorter, you know, whatever I just admitting and i'm a sinner and you know with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition and perhaps god may grant them repentance

Leading to the knowledge of the truth. I use this verse incidentally because it says god grants people to repentance And I also use this verse.

Um You know for t would has been granted for christ's sake not only to believe in him

But also to suffer so we're granted the act of believing You know, but at any rate, um, they go back to colossus 2 14

If this is a sin debt, it's canceled at the cross So the logic would require us to ask questions

Who'd he cancel it for? Did he cancel for everybody or not everybody because there's only two options

He canceled it for everyone or it's not the case that he canceled it for everybody This is called

It's a logical syllogism you guys familiar with that Let me show you something

Okay, i'll put this on the screen All right. I'll make this bigger Okay It is the i'll make it bigger case that So it's the case that x or it's not the case that x

So x can be anything that I ate a hamburger today that I was with my wife today that i'm talking to you right now

Okay, uh that there's uh, you know that uh That i'm typing the letter x you know, and so it's the thing

And the negation of the thing there's only two possibilities It's called a true dichotomy

Okay, that's a true dichotomy. It's either the case that x or it's not the case Okay, so it is

It's like this either the case that or it is not the case that x

That's all it is. All right, so it's either the case that Jesus Uh Bore everyone's sins

Or it's not the case that Jesus bore everyone's sins you get it

This is called a true dichotomy So it's either the case he bore everyone's sins or it's not the case that he bore everyone's sins.

That's all Okay now show you guys something Hmm This is god talking therefore.

I have sworn to the house of eli That the iniquity That's his sin the iniquity of eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever

Could we say that that wasn't a offering of an animal Okay, let me address that so people will say oh this only is reference to animal sacrifices

Okay So therefore i've sworn to the house of eli that the iniquity of eli's house will not be atoned for by sacrifice by animal sacrifice or offering forever

Well, god knows that the animal sacrifices are going to be done away with And that the sacrifice of christ coming along will make the sacrifice of the animals.

He was nine. He was ten Invalid no longer needed But he says forever So if that's the case, why would he say

Just by animal sacrifices forever, it doesn't make sense So that's why he says by sacrifice or offering forever

Jesus is certainly a sacrifice and he's also an offering So it cannot be the case

So this is the one that's true also

Also, I mean we could go to Matthew same for the blasphemy of the holy spirit,

I guess that's where i'm going right now. Okay And it says here whoever speaks a word against the son of man

Okay, it shall not be forgiven him Uh, but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it shall not be forgiven either in this age or the age to come

There's only two ages. That's another bible study. So blasphemy of the holy spirit, right? so It's not the case that jesus bore everyone's sins correct

Just simple logic Yes No one has to debate it. No one has to worry about it

Blasphemy the holy spirit is not paid for by jesus now All kinds of things, uh are paid for though.

Could you get back? I don't I don't quite understand. It is not the case that jesus bore everyone's sins

Well, who sins did he bear? That is a fantastic question

That right there Is a fantastic question, okay

Who sinned did jesus bear? Let's look at this.

All right Oh, man, I just made everything go down. Let's see There we go, all right my bible here

So Mm -hmm We'll do it this way I think i'm going to do is uh do a word doc.

Okay, so So what it is

Okay, so who does who sends a jesus bear right that's a very good question so it's either

Everyone or it's not everyone, right? Okay, so we know

That it's not everyone all right, so We know that that's not the case right there so we know it's not everyone then who

If not everyone that's the right that's the perfect question

So now we have to ask that question and we got to think about it Because we have to ask other questions okay, so I'll just do it this way.

So it says this so having canceled a certificate of debt, right?

So If he canceled it for everyone Logically, everyone would have to go to heaven right if everyone

Then everyone has to go to heaven because everyone's

Sins Are canceled All of them But one could also say that christ redeemed everyone

But that doesn't mean he gave salvation to everyone Well, and then we had to look at the word different words redemption and salvation are not not

Symmetrical. Yes. That's right. That's what we would just do a study on redeem right do a study on salvation And this is what

I will do I literally when I write articles just your question I go Okay, now I gotta do a study on on redeem.

I might take two days doing it I'll write about it So that's that's how I learned so if it's everyone

If it's everyone then everyone has to go to heaven because everyone's sins are canceled Why?

Okay But because god cannot send anyone to hell for Um sins that cannot be held to their account

What does that mean sin is a debt, okay

So that means if you sin, there's a a debt you gotta that you have to deal with It's gonna be okay, that's what it is since a debt, okay

So for example Sin is a debt. We know that From uh, first john 3 20 sin is uh, that's not 320.

Oh, come on Oh, man, I hate that when I have when that happens my brain

First one 320 is he knows all things for john 3 4 Uh sin is is lawlessness. Okay, and jesus said in um

Matthew 6 12 he said forgive us our sins Okay, or excuse me our debts and uh in uh, luke 11 4

Our father of heart in heaven. He said forgive us our sin. So jesus equated sin with debt

Jesus equated sin with debt in The prayer our father of heart in heaven hallowed be thy name. Okay, I agree with that.

Yeah and so sin is a legal debt and He bore our sins in his body

On the cross. Okay Yeah, that's because it says that in first peter 224

All right So Remember jesus, uh, jesus canceled the certificate of debt the certificate of debt, which is again

It's a legal iou of indebtedness so sin's a legal debt Okay so If he canceled the sin debt for anybody for everyone then nobody could go to hell

Because there's no sin to hold to their account. It wouldn't be right for god to send him to hell Because they have no sin matt

Couldn't we say that? You know He he didn't die for the sin of blasphemy of the holy spirit

Can we say that dying in the state of unbelief is blasphemy of the holy spirit? No, blasphemy of the holy spirit in the context of john, uh, matthew 12 22 to 32 is saying that jesus did his

Uh miracles by the power of the devil That's what he's saying. Okay, we can go through that if you want but Unbelief, right people's unbelief, right?

What do atheists do? They don't believe in god they deny god unbelief

Right, but I don't think they know what they're saying. Do you do you agree? Well, no, they do.

I talked to many atheists. I talked to hundreds and they know they are they deny god and so But some of them become christians

So that if that was the case their unbelief would never be the case plus You know, what about some of us before we became christians we believed in god we were unbelievers our unbelief, right?

So, you know, it wouldn't make any sense to say unbelief is the blasphemy of the holy spirit. It is not okay now

So can g can god send anybody to hell for a sin that that doesn't exist the answer is no

Here's an illustration of something I call him coma man Coma man coma man.

He he he's a he's a guy he lives by himself and uh every month on the first of the month

Uh, unless it's a weekend He goes he walks to the bank a few blocks. He gets a coffee.

He walks to the bank It's a ritual. He's been doing it for years the tellers know him and he he gives his check to the teller

He loves doing this He's been doing this for years on one day on the way there, um

He's he's uh car accident happens and he you know, he's hit and he's in a coma

He's in a coma for an entire month And so he misses his payment. All right, they're not going to foreclose because he didn't get time.

But anyway A philanthropist hears about this guy's problem And the philanthropist goes into the bank

And talks to the bank manager and says he wants to pay off this guy's entire mortgage of his house

He pays it off Now the man is still unconscious He doesn't even know that it's happened, right?

But it's happened not because of the man's participation But because of the philanthropist's goodwill now

Once the debt's paid Is it really paid? Answers. Well, yeah

Does the debt exist anymore? No, it doesn't Well a miraculous thing happens coma man wakes up and he realizes that he's got to make his payment and so he

You know the next day that he gets dismissed. It was a miraculous recovery. He he walks on over to the bank with his check and he puts the check to the teller and explains why he was late and The teller says oh your your debt's been paid

It's canceled Mm -hmm, and he says why I got to pay it myself There's no way to do that If the bank took his check for that payment, that would be wrong

Because the debt is gone It's canceled And it wasn't dependent upon the the coma man's um

Uh belief acceptance Rejection or anything the fact that the payment was made was independent of his action

When we go to colossians 2 14 Jesus having canceled out the certificate of debt

Consisting of decrees against us which was hostile to us. He's taken it out of the way having nailed it to the cross

So that was done there it doesn't depend on us the efficacy of his canceling of the debt

Does not depend upon our belief or our baptism or sacraments or going forward at the church

Okay, that's that's something we could talk about down the road So people will then say to me well matt that means you're born forgiven

But well, let's go up. We'll get to that first in a sec, so Okay, so if he's not bearing the sin of everybody then he can only bear the sin of some people

Yeah, it's either everyone or it's not everyone all of them it doesn't work right so we cross that out

So it's not everyone well, then who did he bear the sins for I like to think of this

Where is it? And let's go there All that the father gives me will come to me

The ones given to him by the father Mm -hmm Notice this too.

What's this say ephesians 1 4 Just as he the father chose us the elect in christ before the foundation of the world

And then he predestined us, right choosing and predestining It makes sense to say

That jesus atoned for the ones given to him by the father That he did not atone for everybody ever lived

Because obviously it could not be because that's true because people have lasted the holy spirit. They're not not atoned for and Eli's house is not atoned for But then people want to go here but when he was six versus four contradict, uh

Your view wouldn't it kind of be blasphemy of the holy spirit? No, it's not blasphemy of the holy spirit, dude

Blasphemy of the holy spirit is saying that jesus did his miracles by the power of the devil That's what it is matthew 12 22 to 32.

All right All right, let me just have a minute. I don't want to interrupt but we have some people on the forum that are asking questions at that moment

Sure, if you wanted to touch a base on that for sure Josh Uh says matt's logic does not follow

Just because jesus died for everyone That doesn't mean that everyone receives his death

Matt is making the incorrect assumption that everyone whom jesus died for automatically receives his sacrifice

I thought i'd mention this Yeah, he's not understanding the argument He's not understanding it.

We're talking about the legality of the sin that the sin that's canceled at the cross Okay, that's what that's what we're talking about.

We're only talking about that one Issue no, it's god's not uh, matt slick. No, it's god whatever that means if you guys want to type in questions what we can do

I can do this I can put them on because there's one there's one lady that can't seem to uh video with us

So she mentioned that okay All right But if we can find that I can respond to it more.

Uh, what's the difference between blasphemy of the holy spirit and losing faith? Yeah, I should maybe respond and ask him to get us a scripture passage.

Okay, here we go. Here we go So best logic doesn't follow just because jesus died for everyone.

Well, i'm not saying he died for everyone So what she's saying is my lad my logic doesn't follow. Well, i'm not affirming that universal atonement

I hold a limited atonement, but let's work with her position. Her position would be that jesus died for everyone

Well, what does it mean when jesus died for everyone? She I don't you have to answer. I don't think she's answering the question or facebook users asking

That doesn't mean that everyone receives his death receives a sacrifice. You mean? Yeah, that's true

This is a generic understanding of things and people across the board in protestantism understand it this way, too

Jesus died for everyone doesn't mean they have to receive it. Yeah, it just oh, that's right but When we look at what the scriptures actually say when it says he canceled the certificate of debt

And well, what's a debt canceled at the sin at the cross? It's a sin debt. Well, then we ask questions If the sin that's canceled because what she's not doing is including that in the question

Her question should say if jesus died for everyone and canceled everyone's sin debt That's what it should be

Then that doesn't mean everyone received his death Well, then we have a logical problem if that's the case

Because they don't receive his death They're still going to go to heaven because There's no sin to hold against them

So what they're doing here i'll show you something What they do is this

Okay So what we calvinists i'm a calvinist, okay what calvinists do right is we um

Let's see, we uh limit the scope of the atonement

The others Limit I spelt misspelled limit the power of the atonement.

Let me explain We believe that the atonement of christ is so powerful that For whomever it was

Sacrifice was made they're atoned for their sins are forgiven. I mean their sins are canceled not forgiven canceled.

All right So we limit the scope because we believe it's so powerful but they limit the power

Because they'll say well, yeah, it has the ability to save you but it depends on you

To apply it So what they're saying is this they're saying that They're saying that the power

Of jesus canceling the certificate of debt by having nailed to the cross Rests in you

Rests in your choice your belief your action But that's not what this is saying

It says the opposite Now i'm going to say this a lot of catholics know

I do not like catholicism okay, I have a lot of problems with it, but I also tackle a lot of protestants a lot of them in their errors

And I use the scriptures To you be the standard for both for all

This is what it says It says that now let me let me show you guys something here watch this

We maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law Apart from the works of the law justified we're going to talk about that.

We'll talk about this The works of the law, right? the works of the law now

If you go here Pharisees heard jesus was had silence the sadducees.

They gathered one of them a lawyer asked him Which is the great commandment in the law?

He said you shall love the lord your god with all your heart with all your soul with all your mind That's deuteronomy 6 5.

He's quoting This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

He's quoting leviticus 19 18 On these two commandments depend the whole law and the prophets the law is

Genesis exodus leviticus numbers deuteronomy the prophets is all the rest of the old testament

Okay now We maintain that a man is justified.

We'll talk about that by faith apart from the works of the law apart from the works of the law include

Love god and love your neighbor This is in deuteronomy.

This is leviticus the law You're justified before god Without the works of the law

Without loving god without loving your neighbor People say matt you're crazy

Well, let me ask you. Do you have to love god in order to become a christian? Do you have to love your neighbor in order to become a christian because if that's the case

It's a part of right It's part of being a christian right right not

Getting to be one. You can't be a christian without you can't love god without being a christian good

It's not the loving god that makes you a christian right right being a christian that enables you to love god

I think that's what catholics believe. Yeah, that's what they that's what that's how it should be. That's what they should be

That's right What then shall we say that abraham our forefather according to the flesh is found for if abraham was justified by works

And what's justification mean? We'll talk about this right here For if abraham was justified by works.

She has something to boast about but not Justified in some of these words is different.

It's a little bit It's not all this. It's not equivalent Would you would you agree? it's from from uh uh

Dicaeo Dicaeo, okay right there. It's from 1344 What i'm saying is that justified the word justified

Is not this I mean in in the morning It's the same one here 1344

All right. Okay. All right Okay, so abraham was justified 1344

By works if he was he has something to boast about but not before god for what does the scripture say? abraham believed god and it was credited him as righteousness

Wait a minute credited his righteousness is in reference to what being justified wow

Yeah for if abraham was justified by works made right before god having righteousness

By what he does that he can boast right Before god

But not before god. There's a reason for that But nevertheless for what does the scripture say abraham believed god and it was credited as righteousness

What was credited as righteousness? his belief It's from the greek from the verb

Pistuo That's 4100 right there. He believed god the word faith is is it's a cognate of pistuo

So abram believed god and what was credited in his righteousness his belief Now to the one who works his wage is not credited as a favor, but what is due

But to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly 1344 again

His faith is credited as righteousness. That's what justifying means to have righteousness credited to you

That's what it means according to the context His faith is credited as righteousness

It his belief was credited as righteousness. Now. Look the word believe here Is from the greek pistuo and the word uh

Faith Is from the greek pistis So if you noticed pistis this pistis here and pistuo

Uh It's in the same greek root Okay, just it's a root

And then they decline there's so this is the verb form and this is the noun form of believing

Okay, that's all that's going on there. So Believe in him who justifies ungodly his faith is credited as righteousness

Just as david also speaks of the blessing of the man to whom god credits righteousness apart from works

This is teaching justification by faith without works Now why am

I bringing this up because of this If he cancels out the certificate of debt for the elect

Who are the elect? The elect are the ones chosen from the foundation of the world right the chosen right if if This is what

I believe i'm just saying if this is true what I believe That the ones who were given

John 6 37 All the father gives me will come to me, right?

The ones given to him are the ones he canceled the sin debt for Therefore when they are born

They're not born justified Because they have not yet believed because they believe

And that's when they're justified But their sin debt is canceled They're in a state called the now and the not yet The now the not yet, which

I will show you right here And then i'm going to pay attention to the script to see if anybody's asking questions after i'm done with here

Sorry, I didn't think about that. Um Those who before knew he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his son

So that he would be the firstborn among many brethren those who be predestined past tense

Those he called That's past tense Those whom he called past tense.

He also justified Past tense and these who he justified past tense.

He also glorified Oh, wait a minute Glorification is future

We've not yet been glorified because if you go here

Yeah, there's heavenly bodies and earthly bodies But the glory of the heavenly is one of the glory of the earthly Is another the glory of the sun glory of the moon right

So is a resurrection of the dead it is so in a perishable body is raised an imperishable body It is sown in dishonor.

It is raised in glory That's why they say our glorified bodies

That's why they say that we're going to be raised in our glorified bodies Okay From there yet.

It says We've been glorified, okay, wait a minute. How is that possible?

Because we are not yet Resurrected to a glorified body and yet it's spoken of in the past tense.

Why? Because it cannot fail in god's economy those whom he atoned for he has predestined and They are in the now and the not yet state now the not yet he's glorified which is the now and the not yet right here

And so he grants that they believe For to you it has been granted for christ's sake not only to believe in him but also to suffer for him we're granted belief

And he was saying for this reason I said to you that no one can come to me unless it's been granted to him from the father

In order to come to god the father or to christ god the father has to grant it to you He grants that you believe he grants you repentance second timothy 225

That's correct And when you believe that's when you're justified and finally

That's right And that may we may be found in him not having a righteousness of my own derived from the law

But that which is through faith in christ the righteousness which comes from god on the basis of faith We have a righteousness.

That's not our own So when abraham believed god was credited him as righteousness when we believe

It's credited as righteousness as well. But it's the righteousness of god imputed to us. That's when we're justified

Okay Let's see what this person said matt if we exegete properly it could be

Interpreted that we were close to committing unpardonable sin and jesus was warning them I don't know what you're referencing matt and I uh, i'm not sure what the context is of that Um, jesus doesn't say in fact committed the unpardonable sin

Kim, it's nice to have you on the chat roman catholics Love talking about atheists only they don't realize there is no such thing that is finished because someone paid it for the coma man uh

I'm, just reading the crinkle of an eye Are you reading about that? Okay Matt oh,

I love that. Let's see what this says matt is misusing colossians 2 14 It only says that jesus cancels the sin debts of believers.

Where's it say of believers only? And if you do want to say that it's only the believers well, i'm going to agree with you because It's not the unbelievers whose sin debts canceled, right?

She says it does not teach that jesus cancels the sin debt for everyone. That's right Okay, but he says everyone whom what does not

Wait, it does not teach that jesus canceled the sin debt for everyone whom jesus died for what?

Doesn't teach that he canceled. Oh, so you're saying then that jesus died for people? Here's a question for people who have these questions.

Okay. What does it mean to die for somebody? I mean seriously, what does it mean?

So if I was your professor in a in a class, I said people write a one -page paper What it means for jesus to die for you

What does it mean explain it use scripture show me? Most people don't understand what they're saying when they use this

What does it mean to die for somebody? Well, he's saying that you're misusing collagens 2 14 But he's not saying how i'm missing it

He says it only said that jesus canceled the debts of the believers. It doesn't say of the believers Okay It doesn't say just believers if it says believers well, then

We need to imply that now I'm being a little bit narrow because this is how

I think It does not say just believers, but it does say whoops

I'm gonna here watch Okay, so a note popped up for something else it says this

He made you so he's most probably talking about believers. Let's work with that. I have no problem with that I'm saying the word believer is not there.

We got to make sure that it is Taught there When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, that means while you were unbelievers right there, right?

He made you alive together with him having forgiven us all our transgressions Having canceled the certificate of debt

Consisting of decrees, which is awful to let you take it out of the way having nailed to the cross So if we're going to say it's only believers, we gotta we got some issues to raise

Then What happens if someone doesn't become a believer until he's 50 in the year 2020?

Was jesus did jesus cancel his sin debt? Because if it says only for believers, then that would mean that 2 000 years ago.

Jesus canceled the sin debt only for the believers Which would be limited atonement, which is what i'm teaching

What maybe you could define what limited atonement is Mm Limited atonement is the teaching that jesus only legally bore the sins of the elect

Not everybody ever lived only those given to him by the father and that he atoned for them and that they will be infallibly uh granted faith and repentance and coming into a saving faith with christ and will never

Do they have to do something by you know, reading a little prayer like frank franklin, you know says

Whatever his name is. I forgot his name Graham Is there a prayer of salvation that's involved

No Yes, and no, I mean some people are they can receive christ by a prayer of salvation

Some people just I knew a guy once who uh read the bible Passage and threw it across the room.

He didn't like it And it just gnawed on him and he finally submitted to it and he became born again When I was born again, uh, there wasn't any uh prayer

Well, there was actually Uh, you know, I I prayed to receive christ as my savior But then there was an incredible presence of his power and his actual presence

And so, you know, I believe so some believe Dramatically like that and some believe like well, that's right.

I guess I believe now don't I? I have a I have I still have a friend who used to smoke pot all the time

And uh went to seminary together and he said that someone's typing i'm making noises If you're typing just mute yourself because we can hear it

And he said that he would smoke pot every single day with his buddy and one day he went to a church someone invited him to and he walked up forward to receive jesus and Walked back to his seat didn't feel any different didn't feel anything.

He goes. Uh, whatever And uh, he just went home. I think it was i'm gonna do that again He said and he said the next morning his buddy calls him up because hey one goes hold some pot

He said no and he was stunned. He told me he was stunned that he said no

And he couldn't believe That he said no He didn't want to do it and he goes wait a minute.

I actually don't and that's how he realized So some people say a sinner's prayer some people like I met a guy in jerusalem

And he looked into my eyes He was a bookstore owner. We got talking and he said that when he was a young boy at 17

That jesus appeared to him Hmm and the man told me this you can take it wherever you want

And he said when he looked into jesus eyes He knew he was god What do you do with that so Now do you believe do you do you believe in something like that?

Yeah, I do. Yeah So if a g if someone says jesus appeared to me Or mary appeared to me

Or the angels appeared to me Would you believe that the reason I believe that man is because of of his look his tone his words

He was speaking from his heart And he knew instantly jesus was god in flesh

I that I can't argue with All right. I can't argue with that Now if you want to talk about mary things

That's a different issue Because the only time we see anybody coming so to speak back from the dead is first samuel 28 with the witch of endor

When samuel comes back And we also see elijah and moses coming back to the transfiguration

And so there's three which is a trinity which is interesting and moses and elijah represent the law and the prophets and And saul, uh got in trouble

Uh in his first samuel 28 for his practice Invoking obviously esoteric, uh, you know with an actual right

Yeah, and it was bad news so Let's see if I can get this here that way there.

Okay good and so, um Yeah, the maryan apparitions. That's a whole nother study. I can

I've got i've done research on it. But anyway on this This is why we hold what we hold

So you when I say, you know, I believe a little bit atonement It's not because I just hey, I just I just don't believe he died for everybody.

I got reasons I have a lot of reasons who believes in unlimited

Oh, yeah Matt all these catholics will say why did god save matt slick and not john doe?

Yeah, that's a good question. Um, why did he save anyone and uh The answer is

I don't know He saved he those whom he saves he saves because of what's in god not because of what's in in us

No, I realize that that's a catholic who asks that question Well, here's something Yeah, they will here's something to look at this is uh romans 2 11

For there's no partiality with god and also james 2 For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes

And there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes And you say you pay special attention to the one who's wearing fine clothes

And you say sit here in a good place And you say to the poor man you stand over there or you sit down on my footstool

Have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil motives?

So james 2 2 through 4 What james is condemning is people showing favoritism based on person's qualities

Attributes what they possess what they are God doesn't do that He elected us not because of How great matt slick is how handsome bill uh, chiburus is right?

It's because of christ Well, hey, i'm not handsome and yeah, and uh, i'm not great.

You're you're not great, you know, but I mean from all eternity It's from what god was in god's heart

Why did he choose one on not one another? the answer Ultimately is found here in romans 9

For this is the word of promise at this time I will come and sir She'll have a son and not only this but there was rebecca also when she had conceived twins by one man or father isaac

For though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad They're not yet born

No good or bad nothing So that god's purpose according to His choice would stand

Not because of works but because of him who calls it was said To her the older will serve the younger just as it is written jacob.

I loved and he saw I hated He go. Whoa So he loved one and hated another not because of their works not because of anything in them

That's what it says And then people are going to complain and they're going to say

They're going to say that's not fair It can't be the case Well, that's what it says right here.

What shall we say? Then there is no injustice with god. Is it may there never be? Why would you why would he ask that question because of what he just said

If you read this in such a way to say well jacob is the nation of jacob and esau is the age that the nation of esau

And that individual free will people in both those tribes are the ones that made their choices

Then there's no need for this objection. Is there? That means that's not what's being taught

Because if you understand what's being taught you've got to raise the objection. Hey, wait a minute.

That's not fair Why would god Why would god love one and hate another

They have anything good or bad nothing and he continues

For he says to moses. I will have mercy on whom that's a singular in the greek Who is someone i'm hearing noises click click click noises

Let's see Can you I think it's you bill. Could you mute your mic? Yeah, i'm on i'm on my phone.

So I don't i'm not typing No No, I don't hear anything i'm hearing

Like that you guys don't hear that No, no, i'll tell you when it happens again, come on Are you hearing it all?

None. No, i'm not hearing no, wait. I heard it. There we go there there So you guys are hearing it too in the chat?

See there it is a little bit again I have I have a mechanical valve in my chest. I don't know.

I hope you're not hearing me Maybe that's what it is

Okay I'm gonna start calling you franken search for frankenstein.

Okay. All right now and that makes sense. Okay, okay That's what it is.

Okay. So here we go for he says to moses. I'll have mercy on whom I have mercy I'll have compassion on whom

I have compassion now. Look at this So it does not depend upon the man who wills or the man who runs but upon god who has mercy

Boy this is hard stuff Doesn't depend on you Doesn't depend on me my goodness my faith my whatever

One who wills right when he wants desires doesn't depend on that Oh my goodness

For the scripture says the pharaoh for this very purpose I raised you up to demonstrate my my power in you that my name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth

So then he has mercy on whom he desires and he hardens whom he desires. Why do you pick one and not another right?

Right, well, you'll say to me why does he still find fault for who resists as well? Because if he's picking one over another

Well, basically, you know, that's not fair And here's his here's the answer On the contrary.

Who are you? Oh, man Oh, man Individual who answers back to god the thing

Molded will not say to the molder. Why did you make me like this? Will it or does not the potter have a right?

Over the clay to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use

What if god although willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his page his power known

Endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction And he did so to make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory

Hmm This i'll be debating this on uh, january 5th with a protestant

Who says that this is not about individuals? It's about uh, nation groups

Okay, we should air that on the forum. That'd be great If you want sure let that yeah, it'll be timed and response and right and uh like that but um

So, uh anyway, so you know I guess so.

I forgot who he is. I've debated him before some other stuff. He didn't I don't think he did well that time but nevertheless, so uh

You know, this is what this romans 9 says. So people say well, why do you choose you and not him read romans 9? Yeah, but you know often people will say that's nations

Talking about the nation. Yeah, I addressed that I addressed that. Yeah, it doesn't work because here's another thing.

Uh, Well, yeah, it doesn't work. Um So, you know it this anyway we get into that anyway you guys got questions,

I mean i've been blabbing a lot Yeah Well, there's somebody here muguagra prefix

Second thessalonians 2 13 makes it clear that salvation is by faith and sanctification Not by faith alone.

I don't know what it's trying to get this one is 2 13 Yeah He's trying to say something here, but i'm not well

I just read the scriptures which says faith alone, but we should always give thanks to you brother and beloved lord He's chosen you from the beginning because I know

Well, and he's saying romans 3 28 should be read in context of the whole chapter read verse 25.

It makes it clear that You know, let's do it Yeah for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god being justified as a gift

By his grace through the redemption, which is in christ. Jesus Whom god displayed publicly as a propitiation in his blood through faith

This was to demonstrate his righteousness because in the forbearance of god he passed over the sins previously committed for the demonstration

I say of his righteousness at the present time so that he would be the just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus Where then is boasting it is excluded by what kind of law of words

No, but by a law of faith for we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law

How do you understand? Apart without Without But it doesn't say alone

Yes, it does right here to the one who does not work but believes

We have two things work And faith, right right Work in faith work in belief work in faith because faith is right here.

He who believes who has faith Does not work but believes So we have belief in faith.

How do we know we're talking about? Not how do we know he's not talking about the works of the law?

Instead of just working of love because there is a passage of scripture worked in love

Yeah Here i'll show you something I'm, just wondering

I'm gonna show you something here. Let's see if I can do this get this

No, it won't work that way. I do it this way Let's see if this look if I can show you this And i'll do it this way

These are the 613 commandments in the old testament. Oh, yeah I have them.

Uh, yeah, so That's too big just like this.

Yeah So, oh I could do this one here too, that's why oh it does all of them that way.

Okay, whatever i'll just do this So i'm just trying to get as you can see the works of the law

Are here All right We're learning god the torah signs and symbols prayer and blessings love and brotherhood

These are the works of the law Okay, not to wrong anyone in your speech Not to carry tales not to cherish hatred in one's heart not to take revenge or bear a grudge okay, so You know a lot of the people, you know protestants and um

And catholics alike they bury grudges against me all the time Which is wrong

It's wrong Okay, but if they're gonna if they're gonna say you got to keep the law to be saved Well, these are the these are just loving your brotherhood

I mean don't curse another israelite. Don't put a jew to shame Okay Not to give occasion to a simple -minded stumble, you know, don't rebuke this.

Oh, you are to rebuke the sinner. Okay? To relieve a neighbor of his burden. Okay. Anyway, the poor and the unfortunate stuff

Uh treatment of gentiles to love the stranger do no long to a stranger marriage and divorce laws

Okay forbidden sexual relations, of course times and seasons are to do dietary laws

You know, I like Send me I I need to I need to look at that. That that is an awesome.

Uh What did you get? Did you get this part of your uh ensemble? Oh, I found it on the web one day

I went. Whoa, that's awesome And I just copied it because it was so good. I use this for reference. It's awesome.

Yeah Yeah idolatry idolaters and practices uh

Do not use the ornament of any object of idolatrous worship do not make idols even for others

Do not make any figures or adornment, even if they're not worshipped I mean, oh jeez the part about ornaments.

Does that mean christmas trees? Of course no christmas trees are okay because we like them

Okay As a joke, but uh, we only have to read them in context and see and um in fact

Because I know a lot of old witnesses that say that Yeah This i'm going to open this up.

This is my notes on catholicism It'll open up here in a second That'll be good Oh, they're good outlines on catholicism.

All right. Excellent. Yeah, we need it and uh Let's get it down. Let's get loaded. It's come on I have a lot of notes.

It's not done yet a lot of good stuff Oh, there's a lot of good stuff in there. Yeah, that's right you know,

I have Definitions I have I can all kind of anyway, it's 167 pages.

All right. Wow I I research so people will say, uh, let's see if I can find the notes.

Um Is all that true what what you wrote? Is it absolutely what catholics believe and teach?

This is This is what I do Rumors or is it?

No clarify that. Oh, no Oh, no, for example, I just happen to be right here grace is infused, right?

So this is ccc1999 The grace of christ is a gratuitous gift that god makes to us of his own life infused by the holy spirit into our soul

Okay So that that's why I say you're holding The official context you're not just absolutely or something.

Okay. Absolutely. In fact, uh, Do I have my list? That's very fair catechism paragraphs

I I gotta up make sure I update this these are the ones that i've quoted Okay Here's stuff from the council of trent canons.

I gotta this is all End here. I put notes at the end. I gotta put them up up there and the in the thing

And this is what I do. So for example the apocrypha, right? I can go and I can look up and I index things, um atonement authority uh baptism bible catechism of the catholic church

Catholic claims answered, you know, that's what I do And you see i'll show you other ones too. I got all kind of topics.

What is the church the eucharist? Denomination because they you know, they raise denominational issues about christians.

I had to write about that. I gotta work on this some more forgiveness gospel good works

Let's see good works. The reason I brought this up is i'm looking for Uh things out of the law.

That's good. Yeah. Yeah and um to obey god's law uh

Actual grace common, I mean sanctifying grace So you see catholic dictionary like this is where I got that right right there

And you know the habitual, you know, this is the gospel according to rome.

Now. This is an anti -catholic book When you yeah, you mentioned that right that's yeah

But what I try and do is get the actual quotes from the actual Uh people right right because but sometimes

I can't find a quote that that's short and sweet you know, it might be eight pages and so You know,

I never try and misrepresent anybody at all Uh, so grace can be merited. This is where it says that The infused grace can be lost

Yes, it says that Yep, it's true You're being kind you're being honest and genuine in what you're writing that's right

I can see catholics. I can see catholics chopping up a bit because they'll go to james that faith without works is dead

Let's go to james, but the content Let's do it. We'll go to james, but look at this

We can't go on Romanism evolution philosophy catholicism on the canon

Slavery god's existence the one in the many some it's advanced stuff outlines on baptism oriental orthodoxy on government on islam on outlines on people on groups and cults

How to interpret scripture is a book i'm working on biblical apologetics, for example

I'm actually teaching through this on On Tuesday nights on for patreon where i'm going through come on.

Where are you should open by now? I got so many things open Oh, okay

See calvinism close that off. I'll close that out. Don't don't need to save that No, no and uh

Anyway, I got lots of stuff. Okay, let's go to james. Whatever James two Um, and it's almost 11 o 'clock for me

I'll tell you what guys who are listening what i'll do is i'll go through james two about the issue faith, you know, uh

Say not by faith alone and Get questions and then as soon as i'm done just fire questions and i'll do questions for a while and we'll call it if you want

I'm looking for people with questions, but there's not too many Unfortunately, yeah, if I let them know the get request is ready then we can go through them.

Yeah, i'm gonna write that down Okay, so here The context because they're going to say this they're going to say, uh,

You see the man is justified by works and not by faith alone. That's right That's what they're going to go to.

Oh, yeah, let's read the context right What use is it my brethren if someone says he has faith, but he has no works can

That faith save him That's a dead empty faith, right If a brother or sisters without clothing and in need of daily food and one of you says to them

Go in peace be warmed and be filled and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body.

What use is that? exactly even so Faith without works is dead being by itself

We protestants go. Absolutely. You say you're a christian. Let's see it Eve okay, but someone may well say

You have faith and I have works show me your faith without the works and I will show you my faith by my works

So who's this talking about Is it justification before god or before people

God is the vertical from us up to god. That's vertical from you to me.

That's the horizontal Oh, so is this justification vertically or horizontally before god or before people

You have faith and I have works Show me Your faith without the works.

I will show you my faith by my works You believe that god is one

Well, he wants to prove he wants to make sure that people uh, uh are witnesses to faith That that of his faith

Right that he has faith you believe that god is one you do. Well, the demons also believe and shudder

Yeah, they have faith they believe god, but their faith is False faith because there is no good works produced in that faith.

Okay You want to recognize you foolish fellow that faith without works is useless

Was not abraham our father justified by works when he offered up isaac Check this out folks

Was not abraham our father justified by works when he offered up isaac his son on the altar

You see that faith was working with his works and as a result of the works faith was perfected And the scripture was fulfilled which says and abraham believes god and it was credited him as righteousness

And it's called the faith of god. Now. Wait a minute We just covered that remember

But what does the scripture say abraham believed god and it was credited him as righteousness What was credited him as righteousness paul quotes this in romans 4

This is vertical What shall we say then that abraham our forefather according to the flesh has found for abraham was justified by works

He has something to boast about but not before god That's justification before god So his works don't justify him before god period.

That's what he's saying That's why he then brings this up. Abraham believed god's credited him as righteousness So this is talking about justification before god

James is talking about justification before people Because we know and we can see that abraham believed god has credited him as righteousness

Was fulfilled by what he did because we know he believed god and he also followed through on what he believed

We can see that his faith was real We can see it as he lifted up the sun, you know to kill the sun

We know that and and it said and then he quotes it and if it means

God's got to think about this if it means that it's not by works alone I mean not by faith alone, but by faith and works you got a whole bunch of problems

But if he says that then why is he then saying that abraham believed god and it was credited as righteousness

The belief was not the works If he's trying to say that you're justified before god by works and faith

There's problems One of them is why would he say the opposite right here? And also

If you dare want to say that you're justified before god by faith in your works Galatians 3 10

Then you're lost. But what is he saying? Where is that? I can't watch this.

James 2 10 For whoever keeps the whole law is stumbles in one point to become guilty of all

That's relations 3 10 For as many as are the works of the law are under a curse

For it is written curse is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law to perform them but catholics will say oftentimes that what you're doing is you're going from one era of of another of one letter and then you're you're kind of Contrasting with a book of james written maybe 30 years later or earlier

So aren't you Being out of context. You see what i'm saying? Because every letter is written for a different purpose yep, and James and revel and romans were written by the inspiration of the holy spirit.

That's true whether they're Earlier later does not affect the inspiration. It can affect some interpretations if we understand certain contexts

But what james is talking about in verse 18? He says this is on the horizontal But romans 4 is on the vertical

So, why do we need to be justified before men? What do we well because if you say you have faith

If you say you're a believer, let's see it That's what james is talking about If you say you're a believer, let's see it the devil the demons they believe

But they shudder You're saying you believe but when the demons say it they shudder, but you don't even shudder you're a hypocrite, right?

The demons are not going to act good Nope, robert. Can I ask you a question? Yeah and on your catechism 2068 said man is justified by faith baptism and keeping the ten commandments how can you keep the ten commandments when

James clearly says if you break one you're breaking them all then in galatians paul says that if we rely on the works

It's not the same. It's a whole law You're you're you're cursed So, how's your question?

Huh? What's your question? Exactly? Well, how can you keep the ten commandments for salvation? When it clearly says that faith alone

Apart from the works law you're going back to the laws in 2068 the catholic catechism

I'm putting it in here I don't think we're going to We're going to you know

That and also just simply um

How you treat people? I mean just like what you quoted, uh from leviticus and all those that you know that that colloquy that you had, uh

Nothing was wrong with about it. I mean we we treat each other well with kindness if you have to I mean you should that's christian, right?

You have to yeah, well, let me let me continue with this because i don't want to lose a train Train of thought on this don't you think you should

I mean as a christian you should treat each other Well, is your salvation maintained on your works? It's maintained.

Well, no, but I mean but but like matt said you want to I'll probably go a step further but let's go with what matt said you want to show forth your works because of what you believe

But but the point is that james too cannot be used to say that faith and works are necessary for salvation

Because james too is not about salvation James too is about justification before people not before god

Because that's what he says in verse 18. You show me your faith. I show you mine And then he's talking about that.

Um You see faith is working with his works As a result of his works faith was perfected.

That's a that's a teaching elsewhere in scripture And the scripture was fulfilled that abraham believed god.

It was credited as righteousness You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

What's he talking about? Yeah, what is he talking about there? It's not justification before god paul's words

Yes, but he's not talking about justification before god How do you know? because paul the apostle says in romans

You're using one apostle against another really no i'm not No, I don't i'm harmonizing them

J romans 4 is the vertical james 2 is the horizontal James is not contradicting paul paul's not contradicting james.

They're not against each other. I understand. I believe that I'm saying but you're using your sort of thing.

Well, james isn't saying this because paul is saying that And paul's not saying this because james is saying that well, it works both ways.

That's right I'll quote romans 4 or 5 Oftentimes people will come to me and say well james 2 24 faith without works.

I mean justified by not by faith alone So i'll say oh so then are you trying to contradict? What I just said by quoting this verse because what they'll do is they'll say well that says it's over here

What do you think of that matt? They're actually studying scripture against each other and I tell them don't do that You have to be able to understand both in order to harmonize them

If james is saying That you're justified before god by faith and your works

Then why does paul say to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies you and godly is faithless credit is righteousness

Because the holy spirit inspired both So we got to harmonize them

Well, you can't harmonize it here by saying well what he really is saying is that faith and work save you

What paul really means is faith and work saves you here The one who does not work but believes

His faith is credit is righteousness That really means faith and works is what credit is righteousness.

That would make no sense But if we go to james 2 Okay, you say well in the context

We know it's a horizontal but again Let me present an example.

I mean, you know, you have a lot of people who You know a lot of young young kids who go to camps christian camps and they get

Perceived and all that you hear about that all the time Grow up And they become murderers and thieves and marauders

What about that? Because they're false converts. There's a lot of false converts out there, but isn't that Looking at it backwards and saying well, this guy didn't really do this and that whereas they celebrated him

I mean, yeah, they did. They don't know if he's safe or not They don't know if he's saved or not. So you don't oh you're under that.

Okay, that okay Yeah, it's called I call it the mamby pamby gospel the mamby pamby preaching You really don't realize

I really do tackle protestants bill's heard me many times. Do I tackle protestants?

Do I get on them? Oh man, I do I do it's not just one -sided catholics are evil.

Therefore. That's all I do. Oh heck. No I tackle all kinds of people and I tackle

I tackle protestants a lot a lot And so my radio show

I do I'll tell you know, well not every time i'm answering questions and trying to be nice But i've been doing apologetics and stuff.

I'll tackle them. Well, you know, some protestants are not going to like you. You know that Yeah Guess how many times okay, don't anybody answer and we'll get to some questions.

So robert My website's had a hundred million visitors I'm on 13 radio stations got 50 000 people on newsletter list my website's accessed 24 25 000 times a day

Okay, facebook is accessed all the time i've got 18 facebook pages How many times do you think

I get asked to speak on a yearly basis? except for 2020 because that everybody got screwed up on a you know aside from that yearly basis

How many times do you think I get asked to speak? Well, I would say quite a bit between one and two

If that Usually averages about once a year once a year and that's because I don't pull punches

Wow I say the truth Well catholic. I hope you're listening. Okay Yeah, I don't get asked to speak very often and we've concluded people that we've asked they know i'm going to say it

I say I literally was preaching last night at a church and um

So I was asked to go out there because I was going to be out there and I went and preached Okay, that's not a speaking engagement.

It's a preaching and so you know, I did that and um You know,

I just on the word And half the time when I preach someplace, which I don't preach very often But when I do are they going to ask me back?

I was in a protestant church once And I said there are good good opinion good, uh

Scholars on both sides of the issue of whether the charismatic gifts are for today or not I said that in a sermon

I was not asked back to preach anymore protestant church calvinist church

Really? You're a calvinist. Yeah robert

One more question. How do you come to counsel? Anathema How would

I put it someone that believes in faith alone? Let them be anathema How can the catholic church pronounce anathema on someone that they believe in faith alone?

I didn't understand. I'm, sorry i'm trying to get get through that That was looking at the council trent says that nobody believes that justified by faith alone let him be anathema

Yeah, trent says that that's that's true The catholic doctrine i'm not gonna i'm not gonna deny that Because the catholic church's understanding of that is not what matt

Slick's understanding of that is it's just you know, i'm gonna be honest about it. You know, i'm not gonna the issue

You know, well we can talk about that sometime let's go through some of the questions Ryan pope or issues faith is credit as righteousness in baptism.

Nothing says that in scripture Mm -hmm, but it says faith is righteousness when you believe so here's a question

I ask him Are we justified by faith people say yes, okay We're justified by faith because the bible says having therefore been justified by faith.

Okay, watch this romans 5 1 Therefore having been justified by faith, so I ask him are we justified by faith?

What's the answer? Yes Because it says having been justified by faith.

Okay, then I ask him are we justified by faith when we have faith? or not

People say you're justified by faith when you have baptism Well, then we're not justified by faith when we have faith

Uh You need to persevere to you don't throw your righteousness away So your salvation then depends on your goodness

To persevere is a good thing. So you're saying you have to get baptized go through a ceremony in order to get saved

That's where faith is credit is righteousness the bible doesn't say that Within that it's not just like, you know, people say baptism is a ceremonial thing

It's just it's kind of like looking at the old testament with the circumcision one

Catholics believe it's baptism is more like a a pre you know I'm trying to use the word

Baptism and baptism is a covenant sign. It's a prefigurement of uh, right

But they'll but they're saying that baptism is where you get saved at and I know first peter 3 21 All this stuff

But this is just it had to endure Persevere to ensure that your righteousness isn't thrown away.

So then ryan I want you to stand in front of the mirror tonight And ask yourself have you persevered so far

So that your righteousness is retained If the answer is yes I want you to watch yourself pat yourself on the back for how good you've been to keep yourself saved take credit

For how good you've been because you have been able to persevere So that your righteousness isn't thrown away because of your goodness

Just make sure you give yourself some good pats on the back. Let's get to this guy over here What is the response to the catholic teaching

Works of the law. Oh, maybe ryan. I don't know if he's a good guy Maybe maybe I thought he's a catholic and he's not

I don't know if I did. Sorry repeating him again Yeah What is the response of the catholic teaching that the phrase works of the law that appears in so often in paul and romans?

Which would refer to the jewish law? Well. Oh, okay. What's the response show me that in context? There's no way does it say just the jewish law the law 613 commandments

That's how it's summarized. Well, jewish law is all those commandments. It is all of it.

It's everything, you know Yeah, so when they say that You look at the book of numbers, you know, and then they'll say it's not works

Keeping the law is works. Well, of course it is If it's not my works, then what works are you talking about?

And whenever they I've done this before with them I said well give me some works that are not of the jewish law be kind to your neighbor.

Oh, that's You know Those are the ones that works acting in love, you know, yeah, so I show them it's in the bible, uh, melissa

Reposting for joanne who's awesome. If someone believes they are a christian and is one of the elect but shows no fruit

And is one of the elect but shows no fruit then she will eventually change her ways Yes, if they're one of the elect that means they can't be lost

They will be regenerated if they are one of the elect doesn't mean they're saved now, but they'll be saved later

And sometimes you can actually have people who don't have much fruit My mom was like that there wasn't much fruit in her life as a christian and the reason was because she grew up in the depression and her mom died of cancer and her dad

Left her and she had to she and her mom had to go out in the field and look for weeds to eat and I mean she had a hard time and so She's got this problem and she was stubborn and it was stubbornness to survive

There was a lot of fruit in a lot of ways that I could a lot of people back then They had to work for themselves or unless they didn't survive.

I mean my grandmother Yeah, and she built airplanes during world war ii, you know

So, you know there was some tough stuff and so she was hard But I could see some fruit but not as much as I would like to have seen

And on her deathbed we talked about everything and she trusted in christ. Okay, so fruit bearing is a tough one

Because how much fruit is the right amount? You know anyway, I need hope for someone

I love but if she does not just pray keep praying You can be saved and not be very fruitful

You can be stuck in your ways and god gradually works on you And you start showing more and more fruit

Okay Matt is using his interpretation of romans to claim that james is not saying things about salvation james 218

You show me your faith. I'll show you my faith. It's on the horizontal

It's just talking about justification before people What if his interpretation of romans is wrong if it's if it's wrong then show me how it's wrong

Well, he's saying that's why the same in paul In second thesalonians 2 13 he can say faith in sanctification is paul contradicting himself

Second thessalonians 2 13 doesn't say what he says. I think you got it wrong But see if i'm wrong show me how i'm wrong out of romans

I just say show me I went through verse by verse Read the context

Went through james verse by verse read the context now. We can't have them contradict each other.

We have to harmonize them How do we do it? Why would james say that before men if he wasn't meaning it before god?

Why would he say that? Otherwise, I mean what what do I have? Why for why did

I prove myself to you? By showing your faith, that's what james is saying james 218.

Oh, what's the purpose of me showing myself? Oh You see what i'm saying?

Yeah, because what's going on in the Because in the in the context, uh, this is where context historical context helps so james is talking to people who are

Different places different locations in rome at the time the roman empire.

There was what's called caesaral papism emperor worship And then in the jewish area of israel, there were people who i'm going to go in 10 minutes just so you guys know

Oh, yeah, there are people who were jews and they were Attacking christians the romans didn't like the christians

So you say you're a christian? Really? Let's see it Because in that culture, yeah, i'm a christian

And then they would hide they would run You say you you know, that's why he would say

It's a uh, what use is it my brethren if someone says he has faith, but he has no words

Can that faith save him? What faith is he talking about? dead faith It's not it's not real

It's it's the faith of demons Hey, robert kind of thinking about the four stones

Jesus talked about now the heart Do you want to we always focus on one thing at a time, okay

But do you see this? See what james is talking about here He's talking about false it's called it we call it in theology we call it assentia

Okay Ascentia and fiducia

Okay mental assent I think I got the wrong the word wrong.

No, you got it Okay Heart felt true

Trust, okay So that's fiducia, this is ascentia

What we protestants teach is their justifications by fiducia not ascentia

It's heartfelt trust Because if you really believe something down deep you behave in a manner consistent with that belief

But if you just say yeah, that's right. I believe I believe in being honest. Yeah, I believe in being honest.

Well, no There's got to be an action. There's got to be an action to right which I could relate to In the catholic understanding of works as well

Right, and and I understand that in catholicism. It does teach that And so the thing is that's what james is talking about here

If you if you say you have faith and there's no works can That faith save you

Now, what about save you doesn't that bother you a little bit? What? Why would it why would he include the word can that faith save you?

Isn't he talking about something? Yeah, can that faith save you before god the fake faith?

Right can it they can't it's not really the fake faith Ascensia has no works

Right ascensia Cannot save anybody. No, it can If a brother or sister without clothing and need and you just say go be warmed.

What use is that? That's ascensia Right, that's that's a catholic understanding. That's that's exactly good.

We're good so far So even so faith if it has no works is dead being by yourself That's ascensia.

Okay, but someone may well say you you have faith and I have works show me your faith without the works I will show you my faith by my works.

That's fiducia That's I believe it and there's works associated because I believe it

Okay, show me but show me there's an access show me Yeah, it's it's I will show you that's what true faith does because someone have true faith and no works

Yes to be on your deathbed Okay, you don't have any works showing and no time, you know, you're gone.

Okay But normally, of course, you know, come on. I've been doing this for 40 years I have faith and what i'm doing, you know faith in christ i'm doing this

That you believe in god is one you do well the devil the demons believe also in shudder, right?

That's ascensia Are you so willing recognize you foolish fellow that faith without works is useless ascensia

Was not abraham our father justified by works when he offered up isaac an altar now, wait a minute

Are we saying he was justified by works? without faith His faith was not ascensia.

His faith was fiducia But who's he being justified before God If he's justified by god, then it's saying he's justified by god by his works

Which is a problem because because Because he said was abraham uh justified in christ

Well, he switched better. Okay Because we know we just know from other the same scriptures the god -breathed scriptures

Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in christ jesus

Even though we have believed in christ jesus so that we may be justified by faith in christ And not by works of the law since by the works of the law

No flesh is justified, but isn't james comparing Going back into the old testament and saying look abraham

Was dealing with god and god was telling? Abraham you're putting this your son to death.

So was he? Showing god You know Wasn't he justified before god?

by doing something that Was actually an active Work you could say well then that would be teaching

That abraham was declared righteous before god by his works. Well, that's what james said

But james can't say that Yeah, that's interesting Because other scriptures contradict that See, it's not just see this is james 2 23 through 24

Mm -hmm now what a lot of people will do and I know this because of mormonism joe's witnesses Okay, they use these verses the same way

And I know these verses So what we have here for works is this? But against works by great by faith alone in christ alone.

Galatians 328 Galatians 4 1 through 12, basically Galatians I mean romans 4 1 through 12 romans 5 1 galatians 216 galatians 221

Titus 3 5 We have these and there's others

Well, these verses that clearly say no, we're justified by faith by faith by faith because our works are stained

Our works are stained. We're not going to add anything to god ought we show that we believe of course we should

Do we as protestants do we say you can have a dead faith of ascension? That's all that's needed for salvation.

We never say that Catholics accuse us of that. We don't believe that And I know that catholics never say that you're justified by works alone

Nor do they say just by faith alone, but by faith and works But what they mean is by a rich real faith that produces works and it's the combination

That demonstrates who you are before god and that combined with other things you're justified before god, right?

That's a good accurate So, right. Yeah So I know what they say and yet Let's see

Where is it? and yet There's so much

There's lots. There's there's so much to take to go over. Yeah. Okay. Hold on a sec.

Where was it? Um, Okay, i'll get that and i'll get one other one and i'll make them bigger and we're gonna end this pretty quickly because I gotta my voices aren't

We've been a long time, you know, so i've been enjoying Over two. Yeah, this is great Almost two and a half hours.

Yeah, okay. So My thing here So here we go. All right.

Here we go. Yeah The rcc says the authority the magisterium extends all sort of the precepts of the natural law

Paragraph 20 70 says the natural law 10 commandments They get something against natural law or No Because their observance demanded by the creator is necessary for salvation

Keeping the 10 commandments is necessary for salvation. What does it say then? Okay The pre -magisterium, yeah, let me get 20 36 and 20 70.

Hold on a sec Man I don't think it ever says point blank that works are necessary for salvation alone.

Yes, it does. Oh not it doesn't say alone Okay, watch this is 20 68 20 70 right here

Right, okay, but all of his witnesses will believe that works are And they teach that faith faith in their works faith in their baptism as mormons teach right right right right

Mormons don't teach that do they? Yes They they believe more in a kind of a hierarchical system

Mormons teach that you're you're saved before god by your faith in your works and you have to be baptized

Jehovah's witnesses teach you're saved by your faith in your works but there's no

I can show the documentation in both Those two faiths, you know

I have 20 70 the 10 commandments Oh, yeah

Yeah, i've done a lot the 10 commandments belong to god's revelation, right? At the same time they teach us the true humanity of man

They bring to light the essential duties and therefore indirectly the fundamental rights inherit the nature of human person

The deca law that's the 10 commandments contain contains a privileged expression of the natural law, right

The 10 commandments are a privileged expression of the natural law. That's right Here I got 20 36 specific the specific precepts of the natural law because their observance demanded by the creator is necessary for salvation

Keeping the 10 commandments is necessary for salvation That means well, what context is that in?

What what? Well, we could go I mean here's the here it is go look read the context i've done it too

We're running out of time. But um, because I do want to get going. Come on, so they tell my wife It's 11 30 here it is getting late we just keep going but we could continue another time we do this next week, you know yeah, you could do it weekly and uh

Yeah, and but you can see where it says The next they're necessary. It's necessary for salvation

It's absolutely In the same way that james says it's necessary But james is not saying

Ah, is it a thing? Is it? Because when you go here

Right Oh, I didn't I didn't put I'm, sorry I was I was looking at my screen and reading it and I didn't realize you weren't looking at it because I didn't put it on That one screen.

Oh, that's four Four monitors. Sorry. Oh My bad, so this is what

I was just reading right there. Oh, I see. Okay Okay Can you blow that up a little bit just uh, sure

I want to see that because I I don't know. I can't see that very well. I really want to be able to understand what it says

Okay the decalog yeah, I got that yeah Change sl. I sure does.

I trust chris, uh scripture over tradition 27 and 23 i'm gonna read that later too because okay right now

We don't have a lot of time to really but i'm gonna put that in there 20 and 20 36 and 20 70.

Okay I want to read it. He's he's not this guy.

Yeah, meg wogla Uh, we could talk about that. Uh, yeah, let's talk about that a little next week later

Yeah, if we do it next week, let's maybe we can next week. I don't know what you know, whatever We're gonna do right.

That's a 28 I can do the 28th. Yeah, we can do that. Yeah, people are interested

I'm not doing radio for the rest of the year. So you're not anyway Yeah taking time off Ah Well, anyway, i'll close this so you see

There's a lot here when I teach reform theology

I warn people I say your theology will change Your understanding will change your appreciation of things will change

And I go step by step and show them but the catholics are so bent on works and Faith let me ask you

Are you doing enough good works? before men

Can you ever do enough works before men to show what you believe to save you to be saved before god

Not before god before you have to show your show yourself before men How much how much goodness can you do to prove yourself before men that you believe?

That's james too. That's right But james but romans 4 Right, but romans 4 there are no words nothing.

There's nothing before god that we can do to be saved. That's right I can I can tell you that so mcguagua.

I love that call him next week mcguagua. Perfect Yeah, we got a call on him next week

Yeah, we'll we'll tackle it another time. I just got too much I can tackle it There's too many things to we had to maybe focus on certain things and then yeah

And maybe they'll be more familiar to the answer yeah, we can do it earlier too we can do it earlier

You can do it. Yeah, I don't mind This is really good. All right. All right.

Okay All right. I'm gonna bail because it's My wife's gonna be going to bed pretty soon.

So we need to do this earlier so we can quit earlier Okay kicking you around. All right All right

Okay, hey talk to you later, okay, see you guys i'm gonna end it okay, we'll see you okay.