Another Road Trip DL

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:05

Greetings and welcome to the dividing line. I think I didn't hear any music. So what's going on?

00:18

well, okay, then I Don't know but give somebody a countdown that means

00:25

You're want them to go not gonna play music Welcome to the dividing line second time.

00:39

I've started that but that's okay. You didn't hear that. I hope I don't know it doesn't matter we are in the AO mobile command and And we are currently coming to you live from beautiful golden,

00:52

Colorado It's a little warm up here I I guess there's a big huge high -pressure system that's just parked itself over the

01:00

West and I May cough a couple times during the program today.

01:06

So before the Karen cult members in the audience Start sending

01:12

SWAT teams which is It would have been once an over -the -top silly statement, but it's not anymore and we all know it

01:25

I Actually thought about trying to I didn't have the time to do so because I was looking at Gregory of Nisa and Getting some other stuff more much much more important stuff put together for you here but I took a picture this morning and This will give you an idea so You should be seeing

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A picture from I don't know. I guess this is around 12 -5 13 ,000 feet above sea level something like that Now I I have other pictures like this from years past and you'd be able to see

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Far into the distance and you'd be able to make out trees on the mountain sides and all the rest of instead look

02:23

See there's a coming I Guess there are fires

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Up in Idaho or something and the rotation of the high which is making it very hot in Phoenix right now is sucking all that smoke down into Colorado and I noticed that when

02:44

I pulled into Colorado Springs few days ago You couldn't even see Pikes Peak and that's sort of obvious in that area

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But no, you couldn't and that's what it looked like just a few hours ago up on. I Think I was descending

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Mount Evans at this point. I'm not I'm not a hundred percent certain but I May have just stopped the road up there

03:07

God bless them. They call it the highest paved road in North America The term paved needs to be defined a little bit more closely.

03:16

I think In certain sections in most sections It's one thing going up.

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You're going slow man coming down I lost about 14 fillings along the way

03:29

It's craziness, but at least there weren't any storms today It was but it looked like that and so I spent

03:37

I don't know three and a half hours Breathing that stuff in very hard and I was not breathing through my nose

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So my lungs are like could we get rid of all this now and yeah has nothing to do with kovat

03:51

Has nothing to do with leftist liberal policies. It has to do with With you know life

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And the fact that my lungs would like to kick all that stuff back out after I sucked it all in there

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But it was beautiful up there and you know, I don't know if I'll ever get a chance to do it again so I just decided

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I need to get I Need to get back up to Evans the the parking lot there.

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Is it 14 ,000 130 feet above sea level? Ken Gontar has told me that above 10 ,000 feet pilots have to have oxygen

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So I Can guarantee you when you start that climb you're already above 10 ,000 feet and I didn't see anybody they're offering oxygen to bicyclists at all

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I looked but there wasn't anybody there. So I guess we're not as important as pilots But I got take

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I'm gonna try to put some of the pictures up on Facebook later on Because there's sort of a beauty even when you can't see everything all that clearly there is still some

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I got some really neat shots and Things like that, but I'm just I'm just thankful to have had the opportunity to get back up there again it's been a couple years didn't go up there all that fast mainly because I Have something coming up on Saturday that I will have to do really fast and so Let's just say that that it's very clear now

05:17

That I am on the other side of the hill. That was that was a phrase my you know

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You know getting over the hill getting over the hill, you know Well, the sad thing if you're a cyclist is you have all this data

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I've been using Garmin for years and years and years you you put that into either the Garmin app or the

05:36

Strava app it's got Thousands and thousands of rides that it can analyze and so nice big graphs come out that say you're getting old you can just see the whoo 2016 was the top and we're doing the downward spiral thing and Yeah, it's like okay, but I didn't see too many other people my age on bikes anywhere near the top of it and Nobody had a bike past me and I was stopping and taking lots of pictures

06:08

I passed about four guys and they were all younger than me In fact, two of them were probably in their 20s and I I do

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I do love the disgusted look you Get From you know, 24 year old guys

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When you blow by them and you've got this and it's just so that's half the reason

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I have it. It's fun. Anyway so we had a great time a wonderful time

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At Hope Chapel in Colorado Springs. I really want to thank everybody there put together

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Jason Lyle and I got to spend more time together than we've really gotten to spend in the past Other than the one time he actually drove up here and he even offered to come up tonight

06:54

To do some stargazing and I'm just like Jason. I'm sorry But after climbing to the top of Mount Evans today by nine o 'clock tonight when it's dark enough to be doing anything

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You may be showing me something wonderful, but you're gonna hear snoring coming back. So I just And I'm speaking twice this weekend

07:12

Redemption Hills Church on Sunday morning from John 17 and then

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Boulder Bible Church in the evening down in Boulder so Yeah, I've got a lot of stuff going on and so we couldn't do it but I got to spend

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Time with with Jason and we just we determined that even though there's like 12 years between us

07:38

We were separated at birth. He got all the brains clearly And all the looks too.

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I'm not sure what happened to me. It's sort of like that Twins movie. I'm Danny DeVito but still man, we are freakishly alike in stuff that we like and don't like and and Things like that.

07:58

He's even a plainer eater than I am which is really hard to be to be honest with you ask rich he knows but Anyway, we had a great time together.

08:09

And so when we spoke together I Spoke on and I haven't looked I would assume that these are on the church's website or something but I I spoke on Dealing with Roman Catholicism initially in the first session, which these days is fascinating with everything going on with German bishops rebelling and Pope Francis making a mockery of the of the old line is the

08:41

Pope Catholic, uh, We can't tell sort of hard to know these days to be proven.

08:47

I was with you and then Jason did a great presentation on dealing with secularists and it was very presuppositional in nature and really good and Then fairly late in the evening for me

09:04

I spoke on dealing with the LGBTQ movement and That was that was tough.

09:12

I started preaching and It was interesting because when I got done

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Everybody was perfectly quiet and even when people started coming up to us they're whispering and I said to Jason I said why is everybody whispering and he said you sucked the air out of the room

09:31

I was like, oh, okay. It was pretty serious I spoke right to the the parents especially in the room about the world's

09:44

Beavered desire to get hold of their children and to destroy them and So, yeah, so we had some really

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Good conversations afterwards deep conversations afterwards. It was it was great. So And it was a

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Tuesday night. And so that's really that really illustrates What we need to be doing with the road trips is

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You know, I can't do everything I can't do something every night You know, literally

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I have to I'm traveling alone I suppose I shouldn't say that but We it's pretty obvious I don't have anybody operating my stuff here

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I do it all myself I do all the setting up and breaking down of the of the

10:33

RV So at the same time I'm listening to stuff and studying stuff and getting ready to Speak up in Idaho.

10:44

I don't know how many times in Moscow at NSA and Christchurch and the grace agenda conference

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I'm listening to stuff and studying stuff and At the same time.

10:56

I'm hooking up the sewer connection for the RV and you need to do that correctly

11:02

There's the right way and there's lots of wrong ways yeah, yeah, there really is and you gotta get the electrical stuff right and you got to get the you know,

11:13

That the reality is that that that garden hoses Sometimes they hook up right and sometimes they don't that's just just the way it is

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I've got a little leak on on the connection here. But yeah, all sorts of stuff like that how to chalk wheels

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And every all the all the other fun stuff that comes with the RV life while doing everything else.

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And So this was a really good example. I think of you know, it's Tuesday and So Like I was saying

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I can't do something every night when I'm traveling so if so if you see that I happen to have been in the general area and I don't necessarily on this trip get to you.

11:56

Please be patient because like Some nights I need to do laundry.

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I mean, it's just that basic and If I don't want to use if I'm not staying at a place that has particularly nice laundry facilities

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I've got this laundry bag and it's in the shower and it's it's sort of like how humanity did it for many many years except I have soap and humanity didn't have that but So it's still a modern way of doing it,

12:25

I guess but so there are some practical things sometimes need to need to be done and You know like cleaning up and stuff like that.

12:34

So it's just it's interesting life But it was so neat I'm not gonna go into details but it was so neat to be able to talk with people and look into people's eyes and All that neat stuff, which is what you can't do

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Like this, I mean I can look at rich, you know, he's got his camera off and he's probably snoozing about now but That's not the same thing and I don't and I don't care even if you're talking with somebody that way

13:05

It's just not the same thing. You saw what happened when when Jason and I were together That was very that would not have happened over zoom.

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No way would not it there was a there was a natural chemistry That takes place there that just simply doesn't happen in other contexts.

13:22

So looking forward to seeing folks this weekend some of the folks came down to Colorado Springs said they'll be

13:30

Visiting when we're up here in in Denver Thanks to all the prayers for the few of you who prayed because I had to drive

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I -25 between Colorado Springs and Denver It seems that CEDOT, Colorado Department of Transportation, has decided that that section needs to be under constant construction

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It has been for years. I spoke at that church in 2019 and I drove through the same mess two years ago

13:57

That I then had to drive through and Rich warned me he told me he said in that construction

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You've got narrow narrow lanes you have those Cement concrete divider thingies right up against the lane and People think it's the

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Indianapolis Speedway there they're flying through there and It's one thing when it's a car but a couple times

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I'm in the right lane and I'm as far to the right as I can get but you know, there's only so far to the right you can go and semis full -size semis are

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Blowing by me. They're not even speed limit What's that? It's a speed suggestion

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Nothing more than that. So yeah, it was fun We made it no damage Yes, we are fully insured but yeah, we made it so I Aged significantly.

15:08

I think it's more white in my beer. That's the result of that. But anyway, so Anyhow, I hope you're looking for looking forward to more of these in the future.

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I will be at Just go to the now rich and Mike did

15:25

I see correctly that the calendar has been in some way Connected to the app

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That there's a there's a connection there now so that you have the ANO app That is correct.

15:37

Good. All right, so I thought I saw that but stuff that comes through while I'm driving is not necessarily guaranteed to stay in the brain for obvious and good reasons

15:51

It's more of that good smoke. We're gonna get rid of there from the air not from any any other sources, um

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So keep an eye on the app and we're gonna be up in French town and of course up in Idaho and then we're gonna be in Las Vegas and that's just this trip and then

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I really need to get working on the g3 trip and We'll see what comes of comes of that.

16:18

All right now Real quick. I'm not gonna spend much time on this because I want to get into Gregory of Nyssa and Gregory Thaumaturgus Yeah, yeah, yeah you you sent that before and Yeah, I'm at an

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RV park in Golden, Colorado and Rich is sending me pictures of these old ancient things and he thinks

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I'm gonna share it. I'm not But I'm gonna tell you something I'm looking through my windows on this side at a bus size

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RV There's one over here that I think is bigger And I think

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I think they have like a thing they've welded on the back for a

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Harley and Then that has an attachment for a car. I don't even know how long that is

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And then across the street and I mean these people put flagpoles up lighted flagpoles at night

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They're not pulling out every few days like I am but these things are

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Humongous and the guy next door to me was telling me that his basically drives itself Which I'm not sure if that made me feel good or bad.

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I was with you. It's a little bit scary But man there are I've decided that our rig is smack -dab in the middle

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I've seen some out there That would absolutely forever cause you to be the hunchback of Notre Dame.

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I mean, they're just that small and I mean if you if you lean to the right you hit your head on the front

18:04

Yeah, I'm once you go in. I mean, it's just I don't know how That works to be honest with you and then you've got these

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Things that you could put 50 people in there and they'd be comfortable and so somewhere in the middle is

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Where I am I would guess and so it's it is I Wish I had more time at night.

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I'm not really a night person, but just wandering around one of these places I've heard of RV Park evangelist.

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I have and I could see how that could I've actually had the idea And and I'll have to see if it and I've actually sort of started working on it.

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I was setting my little telescope up I've got a four and a half inch telescope with me setting it up at night The problem is by the time night comes along dead tired and I'll be honest with you

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Thanks to the either the air conditions that you know the smoke or the storms I haven't seen a clear night yet the whole time

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I've been traveling But it would be cool if you put something out like that You'd attract people because people walk their dogs in there and they're very friendly very very friendly the guy over on this side

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You know, I said, yeah, I'm gonna be here about five days something like that and he says, oh, okay All right. I told him

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I was gonna go for the ride today. So yeah, I'll keep an eye on your rig for you You know, it's like cool, you know, it's

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It's it's a little cult It really is it can I borrow your sewer tube?

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Laughs it's a it's it's different. Anyway, so, uh, all right

19:38

Put all that stuff aside real briefly the speed at which my nation has been

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Transformed Into something completely different Has left me

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Basically speechless I don't think most people understand

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I Just I just think we're too busy with other things in our lives or we just have this long -term

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We just trust the government idea thing going on. I don't know But you need to understand because this the the

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Equality Act thing is coming one way or the other and That's gonna be huge and that's massive, but if you want to see how it's going to be fleshed out over time

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Look at what just happened with the eviction issue and renters If you just step back for a second private property just disappeared

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The entire idea of ownership of property

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That is fundamental to the foundations of the Constitution United States Has been undone by the unilateral decree of a woman

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Who until January was a college professor she is unelected but somehow now has the authority

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To Say to property owners You don't get to do with your property what you want to do with your property in the sense of if Because obviously what's going on is a lot of people are dependent upon rental income to pay their own mortgages and So you you are having people

21:54

Losing their property because the government says you can If someone's living in your property and they had an agreement with you because of kovat because of kovat

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They can now live there for free and you can't get rid of them and you cannot recover that That investment and if you lose if the bank ends up with your property who?

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Banks, who did banks support and who did banks give money to in the election, huh?

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That's interesting how that works yeah, I mean and Biden who again?

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I don't think is with us any longer. He is the perfect mentoring candidate But and and maybe they didn't even want him to say this

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Maybe they'll eventually just start excluding him from the conversation. So he won't say things like this, but he basically admitted.

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Yeah We can't find any legal experts to say this is actually constitutional, but we're gonna try

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Aren't these the people that allegedly swore an oath to uphold the

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Constitution not destroy the Constitution, but then again an oath requires a worldview that has a judge in it and so oaths

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Once once you have secularism, why do you have oaths? What are you swearing by? Why why why should ugly bags of mostly water

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Swearing something if they're the highest thing there is what does it matter? Who cares?

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It's literally like trusting a Slick Bob at Slick Bob's used cars where you can see the pile of sawdust under the transmission of the vehicle and He gives you his oath that it's in great shape

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Yeah, okay. Great. Wonderful. That's where we are now. Wow and so if these folks if this regime is

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So blatantly blatantly blatantly blatantly blatantly willing To be utterly lawless a law unto itself.

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I wonder how many Americans even understand Or people anywhere in the

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West or around the world. Look at what's happening in South Africa Really understand that Line that they've heard many times before and that is that we are a nation of laws not of men

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What's that supposed to mean? Well given what we've discovered about the educational system and about teachers unions,

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I'm sure they've been lied about anyways no culture can possibly last

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When the laws that define it on Monday Are different on Friday you can't it that kind of inconsistency will destroy any people the beauty of God's law is

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Your your grandparents Lived by it and your grandchildren will be blessed by it

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But man's laws. Oh goodness We've already seen example after example after example just over the past 18 months of man decreeing things that now

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No meaning at all doesn't matter at all a nation of men rather than law

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Anarchy destruction. It's destructive of human life and That's what we're looking at.

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That's what we are facing. There's no No two ways about it. It's astonishing the speed at which this has happened

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And the boldness all the boldness and I really have to wonder Look, I don't believe

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I'll be honest with you. I don't believe 80 some odd million people voted For the man who doesn't know which day of the week it is

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There was zero excitement for that man So when you look me in the eye and say, you know what more

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Americans voted for Joe Biden than voted for Barack Obama I just go you are a silly person

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You you there's probably a better line from Monty Python someplace But you are naive on a level that's really difficult to begin to comprehend so the this regime

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With the figure old man figurehead that they trot out there to to blather around a little bit

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But the people behind the scenes that are running it these people are bold They hate the

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Constitution they hate Western democracy. Well, they use all the same terms, of course, that's

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That that's what you have to do But oh, are they passionate about wanting something completely different and they are accomplishing it at high speed at high speed but One hope that I have

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To see in my mind from one direction. It's like God's got to tear this one down.

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It needs to become a watchword Remember what we had and lost it because we became focused upon our things and our comforts

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It would be an incredible example But another possibility is

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These people Who think themselves they profess themselves to be wise.

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Oh, are they wise my my my These people have it all figured out

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They're actually people who have very little knowledge outside of their own very narrow fields of expertise they are not

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Renaissance people by any they're not widely read at all and They show no

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No, even basic rudimentary wisdom They're good at plotting and scheming, but that's not what wisdom is

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But these people may well Finally go so far and man.

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They've gone a long ways already. You would think this would have already have happened but Doug Wilson Yes, I listened to my blog and may blog

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Made the argument a couple days ago that Eventually at some point you're sitting in the room and you've been putting up and putting up and you look across the room and your

28:53

Eyes locked with another person and there's a instant of recognition You too, and then you look around There's a bunch of people in the room.

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They're looking at you going. This is not right It no way is that gonna happen good.

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Would that be a blessing from God? Oh, man, would it ever? um We'll see we'll see but right now the boldness of these people to just simply say we

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We know what that Constitution says we don't care We don't it's it's from our perspective.

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It is doomed It will be gone before long. Anyways, so why should we care?

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We will continue talking about it and we will continue feigning allegiance to it, but we hate it

29:46

And we will get rid of it. All right Sorry, I went a little bit longer than that initiative So Couple weeks ago when we had our

30:01

Debate right before I left last program before started doing everything here in the mobile studios which as you know is just the den at the back of the fifth wheel, so My understanding is if a fifth wheel is gonna get damaged this is

30:15

What ends up happening somebody Taken taking a turn too tight not seeing something.

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I man I can see how that can happen. Oh My guardian angel is working working overtime.

30:28

There's no choice about it. Anyway We looked at Calvin and For me anyways, and other people said it was to Enjoyably spent some time in some deep

30:45

Contemplation of the doctrine of the Trinity in Calvin's place in that and We we really did not scratch the surface to be honest with you

30:56

There's a lot of scholarly literature on That subject and there are a lot of people who think that Calvin was in error in Criticizing some formulations of post -nicene orthodoxy while clearly showing an understanding and Sort of arguing that a closer reading of like the great

31:28

Cappadocians Basil Gregory and Gregory Maybe reading them closer in their own context rather than as Interpreted down to the centuries might be a wiser way of doing things

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Maybe we'll have time In some context to look at that and and I would say to you that's important stuff.

31:52

It really is It's easy for us to dismiss that kind of thing, but the language that we have inherited to speak about our own theology comes from from history and The more we recognize those sources the better equipped we're going to be to properly handle the what some people call the great tradition that has been passed down to us and one things very very clear if you

32:29

Do not study church history. You will not be in a position at all to Critically analyze the traditions that your own church embodies and your every church embodies it

32:46

And as I've said a million times before if your church pretends it doesn't embody a certain form of tradition

32:52

That means it is not even beginning To try to analyze the traditions that it actually does have

33:03

That's One of the biggest problems of fundamentalism in general not every fundamentalist but in general so anyway a quote was given and I mentioned at the time that I wanted to get to it and It's from Gregory of Nyssa.

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So we need to differentiate all our Gregory's There's lots of for some reason. There are a lot of Gregory's in church history

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Gregory of Nyssa Gregory Thaumaturgus or Neo Caesarea some whatever.

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Um, and then you've got Popes and then then they have Roman numerals after their

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Gregory's Including Gregory the Great. So You got to know who who you're talking about Or you get really confused

33:55

So There was a epistle That has come down to us through history

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It's called on not three gods on not three gods written to Ablabious a b l a b i u s

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Ablabious must have been a rough pregnancy, but anyway and Ablabious has written to Gregory and has asked him

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The question whether it is appropriate or inappropriate in light of the doctrine the Trinity to speak of three gods

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Now Gregory's response is not super long. I mean you can read it in one sitting fairly fairly easily unless Twitter and Facebook has destroyed your ability to think for more than 15 seconds at a time, which for many of us is

35:00

Is exactly what has happened It's not super long But it isn't easy to follow and Part of me would like to say they're there would have been a much more concise way

35:19

To basically say since the biblical revelation of Monotheism I Can't lean on this because it moves the camera the biblical revelation of monotheism in Revelation itself is

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Foundational to everything else It was first its primary its foundational its definitional.

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I would argue that when you Speak of The distinctions of father son and spirit that those distinctions are introduced to us scripturally

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Really dependent upon a pre -existing understanding of The foundational nature of Shema Yisrael Yahweh Elohim Yahweh our

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God here Israel Yahweh is our is our God Yahweh is one if you were to if you're to say this is the key assertion that then

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Conditions Everything after it That would that would be it and those who have seen me teach on the

36:46

Trinity know that when I do the triangle thing We have monotheism the existence three persons equality persons

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And then there is they points to the triangle point to errors that come from denying any one of these three

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It's very useful It's in the Forgotten Trinity What's at the bottom what's holding the the the triangle up monotheism

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So it would seem to me that if someone said well In light of the deity of Christ in light of the deity the

37:19

Holy Spirit. Can't we speak of three gods? I my response would be that's

37:27

Thinking about it backwards from the way in which has been revealed to us and I would also

37:34

Then default back to as Calvin did The identification of Father's Son and Spirit as Yahweh The use of that one the one name which

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Jehovah's Witnesses rise you've never six thousand times in the Old Testament It's all over the place

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It's true But when you actually think about the fact that New Testament writers then utilize that name specifically of the

38:08

Sun in unique contexts Especially the psalm 102 25 to 27

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Hebrews chapter 1 10 through 12 citation. You just can't get around it. It's just I Think I've seen most of the attempts and they fail and fail badly including buzzards really bad attempt at it.

38:30

I Mean it works for a lot of folks who don't Know some of the background issues, but anyway

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So I would have responded to a blobby us without having blabbed

38:44

Quite as much as Gregory did but still when you read it Um, it's intriguing it's interesting

38:52

I Personally Struggled with the

39:00

Illustrations he used because of the fact that he used illustrations from creation to attempt to communicate something that I Think is absolutely unique and hence like the

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Trinity itself There's no analogy that actually really works And so I Struggle a little bit with that, but I wanted to get to the specific quotation, which is from the last paragraph of on not three gods and What I did before I left home is

39:39

I spent a fair amount of time I'm tracking down the original language

39:48

Source for the English translation you can find the English translation of this in What we used to call the

39:56

Erdman set now Hendrickson has it so it's really the shaft set Shafted mostly editing, but it wasn't just him

40:06

It's the 38 volumes that look so wonderful on a bookshelf they Really look they don't have any look at all when they're in a program

40:16

But I have them in accordance and of course I had them in print long before I had them in accordance and so This is the

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Greek underlying The translation and you will find lots of different translations and one of the reasons for that One of the reasons for that I can illustrate from my own book on the on the

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Quran when I addressed The Quran's utilization of the infancy gospel of Thomas as If it were part of the in Jill as if it were part of the

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Christian scriptures, which it obviously never was I Translated it

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The The Greek and of course people might argue as to where that was the original

41:10

Coptic Syriac all kind of argumentation. Yeah But I had it in Greek and so I translated and there was a real practical reason for that you don't you can't copyright the original languages and So as long as you're doing your own translation, you don't even have to jump through the hoops that you normally have to jump through to quote somebody else's work and So I just translate it myself and as a result you frequently end up with differing translations in a you know being cited by different individuals and if it wasn't as much of a big deal in the olden days because everybody could read

41:52

Latin and almost everybody could read Greek at Least in scholarship and now this is not the case So here here is the last paragraph as I see time going by here

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Here is the last paragraph of on not three gods as it's found in The most common

42:13

English source because that same set is available like at CCL org so it's available online not all that easy to search but You can learn how to do it

42:27

So that's probably the most common Translation you're gonna be encountering and by the way, I want to mention this

42:33

I was reading on not three gods quickly before the program started and I was

42:41

I noticed something and that This kind of thing I like to notice and there are a few of you geeky people out there

42:49

That like to notice these things too. So I'll share them and all the geeky people go who?

42:58

I Like Chris on holds anyway, I Noticed Gregory in a specific section where he was

43:12

Speaking about the divine persons and their relationship. He referred to the Sun as the only begotten

43:20

God And this is in the English translation Now what's interesting is if you are familiar with the gospel of John, you know, and certainly for me what

43:35

By the way, the gospel of Mark is now out We haven't ordered it yet because I'm looking for a better way to order it But man as soon as I get back even if we have to do it that way

43:42

We're ordering gospel mark. The ECM version is out. I'm not sure if the modules are ready for download yet or not, but Anyway, we'll get to it we get back but John's being worked down in Birmingham and For me one of the most fascinating questions

44:03

That the application of CB GM technology to the gospel of John is going to address

44:09

Will be the textual variant of John 118 Where you have

44:15

A Ha monogamous we asked you'll be gotten Sun Which is what's in the

44:21

King James TR? Then you have monogamous They asked or ha monogamous.

44:27

They asked Both those would basically be rendered as The unique God or the only begotten

44:35

God the article might Have an impact one way or the other

44:41

But I'm really interested in seeing what the CB GM Data does with that as far as coherence goes

44:52

That's could be really really interesting But the point being that Gregory of Nyssa over and over and over again.

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I was looking at the Greek over and over and over again uses Monogamous they asked of the

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Sun so it's very clear that even though he is a 4th century

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Writer Moving toward the 5th century his manuscripts were to use the old terminology

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Alexandrian They have the same reading that's in p66 p75

45:31

Sinaiticus and Vaticanus but not in Alexandria's and so I Just found that very very interesting that this was a regular phraseology that he used and hence what that means is he had

45:49

Himself decided that this is the best reading by far and it's one that we can utilize

45:56

Regularly, okay, there was a little geeky thing to throw out for textual critical guys.

46:01

All right Last paragraph in The shaft set the

46:09

English translation reads as follows thus since on the one hand the idea of cause

46:20

Differentiates the persons of the Holy Trinity Declaring that one exists without a cause and another is of the cause and Since on the one hand now,

46:31

I'll stop saying I would just stylistically and looking at the

46:37

Greek it uses menday, so I I Don't know why the translation went this way

46:45

It makes more sense to say and since on the other hand

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The divine nature is apprehended by every conception as unchangeable and undivided for these reasons we properly declare the

47:04

Godhead to be one and God to be one and Employ in the singular all other names which express divine attributes so He says earlier on that the question as it was presented and He recognizes that it it's it could be an objection and certainly as Muslims use it.

47:35

It's an objection That the whole idea and this is really what the logical problem. The Trinity thing is all about is

47:42

Of course to try to say this is logically incoherent based upon applying the same

47:51

Standards to the relationship of the persons as you have ontologically to the existence of the divine being it's

47:58

No matter how hard You fight you are conflating categories and that comes up here in in his very concluding statement having argued for the deity of Christ having

48:15

Argued that you cannot You know, there's a section in here

48:22

I could don't have time to read the whole thing. Like I said, it's available online I would recommend it to you if you

48:29

Are really interested in these kinds of things to to read through it, but he had he had argued that The the father does not a do anything separately from the son.

48:39

The son doesn't do anything. There's not perfected by the spirit So within what we would call the economic

48:45

Trinity. There is this Consistency that flows from the unity that is theirs in the full possession of the divine nature and yet, they're not doing the same thing and So the illustration to use is is if we say that we have been given life

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By God the scriptures tell us that This life comes from the decree of the father the son gives life to whom he wills

49:19

The spirits the one that makes us alive, but he says we don't say that we've received three lives we've received one life and we recognize that that one life comes from God and When I'm speaking of the life that I've received from the son

49:38

That's not some different kind of life than what would come from the father or from the spirit

49:43

I Recognize the life I received from the thought from the son is in perfect harmonies decree of the father and it's been brought to me by the

49:50

Spirit of God, there's There's perfect harmony here. And this is his argument As part of his argument as to why he concludes you don't use these the phraseology three gods

50:03

Because it's inappropriate to do so, but the point is that even in this Final well, you could identify it as a single sentence suppose if this was the living translation of the

50:16

Greek it would probably be about six sentences, but Still Let me read again and and listen to how

50:27

Gregory and you can't force anybody to do this Okay critics can

50:35

Ignore these distinctions and ignore the difference between relationship and ontology and There you there you go, but I'm talking to Christians here for our understanding and our benefit and our edification since on the one hand

50:52

I'm gonna go ahead and do the men day men day is a Construction in Greek language that comes across in the

50:58

English as on the one hand on the other hand, okay? And this is a rather it's a somewhat complex

51:05

Sentence because you've got Some articles thrown in and an infinitive. But anyways, I'm just going to translate that way thus since on the one hand the idea of cause

51:18

Differentiates the persons of the Holy Trinity Declaring that one exists without a cause and another is of the cause now

51:27

I I Didn't have time to go back and because I know it's in Twitter someplace and putting stuff in Twitter is

51:40

Like putting in it into the van. It's same thing with Facebook for me It's putting it into the vanishing box it just How do you ever go back and find anything?

51:53

It's not I mean you can't even edit a post in Twitter let alone find it again I imagine somebody probably has a program out there.

52:01

I don't know that Would go into your you know, actually treat your timeline as a database and be able to do searches and stuff

52:09

Don't really be useful but anyway, the Jake used a particular quotation that is different in Its phraseology, but I couldn't find it quickly as to what it was

52:25

I suppose I could Look here and if anyone has let's put this way.

52:32

Let's let's see how this works. Let's see if live Webcasting can function this way if if anyone has the specific terminology quotation of this

52:45

That Jake used because he it was in his timeline. I'm sorry I just didn't have time and getting everything set up to go find it

52:52

I apologize Jake if and if and Jake if you feel that it's relevant, I have the

52:58

Greek and I'll be happy to Walk through whatever you think is a relevant distinction or differentiation in the

53:08

English translation But maybe somebody has it and Twitter, of course Thurman times when

53:14

Rich's ago. Oh see there it is I'm sitting there looking at Twitter going Really? It's not happening on my end and I just I don't use them all those fancy -dancy but I've used those fancy -dancy for tweet deck and tweet bot and tweet this and tweet that and they all have problems and I'm just using the plain old website and it seems to be the slowest of them all for some reason, but Anyway, let's see if someone comes up with with that I Had a

53:47

I had a DM and I thought that might have been it but it was on a Different issue someone a troll that has been trolling me.

53:56

There are some Interesting people out there but the point being that the on the the the first Aspect of one hand other hand is

54:13

Is Differentiation of the persons not origination not creation

54:21

But differentiation of the persons Declaring that one exists without a cause and another is of the cause now,

54:36

I think the idea and I think it was the same thing with the

54:41

Calvin quote the idea that the idea is to Introduce an implicit subordination ism, which makes sense from an

54:52

Islamic perspective Not what the

54:57

Quran did but That we discussed that briefly as well. I continue to think that is a

55:02

Fatal objection. I really do that. I don't think just laughing it off is

55:09

Is enough and I don't think that I'm sorry. I just have not seen Actually, I don't see almost

55:15

I Almost never see Islamic exegesis of the

55:24

Quran the way you see Christian exegesis of Scripture I I read

55:29

I've read major portions of Tafsir literature and I've just always been amazed at the

55:43

Substantive difference in the Christian desire to an ability to Engage in grammatical historical exegesis of the text.

55:55

You just you just don't get that and In fact, there's a resistance to it amongst

56:00

Muslims There are some people call it historicization and if you do that you just destroy faith in the

56:09

Quran Fascinating well worth expanding on some of that stuff. Anyway point being the idea is

56:18

Well, Gregory is talking about the father is not caused but the son is caused

56:26

And So I'd want to I'd want to look very carefully at Exactly what

56:39

The What on ITO's means

56:45

What prez you own means? And Exactly how it's being utilized and what's being asserted there, but in light of what

56:56

Gregory says in the rest of the epistle This is a distinction of Relationship.

57:03

It's a logical Distinction it is never a temporal distinction and yet This is the great challenge of Christian theology and discussing the nature of God is our language is

57:22

Fundamentally temporal every verb we use

57:29

Even when we try to be a temporal in the utilization of like an infinitive or something it's still in a context

57:35

You can't avoid it And so I'd want to look at those things but the balance in Gregory is found in the day portion

57:53

So and since on the other hand the divine nature the

58:00

SIA hey SIA The hey

58:05

SIA fucis the divine nature is apprehended by every conception as unchangeable and undivided

58:15

Unchangeable and undivided and Gregory is affirming that the

58:22

Sun Possesses this divine nature this ontological reality that is eternally existed as God and in possession of that divine nature

58:36

For these reasons he then says we properly declare the Godhead to be one and God to be one and employing the singular all the

58:42

Other names which express divine attributes, but it's that on the one hand on the other hand And so he recognizes where the objections coming from but what he's saying is in the final analysis

58:54

When you do not conflate the categories then the result would be we do not utilize the phraseology of three gods because there is only one being of God and that the relationship of father son and spirit is not something that changes the

59:15

Indivisibility of the divine being so it's not like the father possesses it and then he just Sort of shuttles it out to the

59:24

Sun and then Then you have arguments as to then then whether the father the son then give that to spirit or whether the father alone gives spirit

59:31

Inspiration and all the rest that Argumentation that takes place at that point which once was this the stuff of Dinner conversations across the

59:45

Christian world and now I Wonder what percentage I mean

59:50

Eastern Orthodox folks know about it because it's sort of definitional to them But man, most folks in the West know Nothing whatsoever about that whole discussion

01:00:00

People went to war over things like that in the past. But again, this is called on not three gods

01:00:05

It's in the volume that contains writings of Gregory of Nyssa Some search engines might pull up a blabious a b l a b i us if you want to try to find it

01:00:17

And look at it yourself. Yes today has been somewhat of the seminary level type thing, but It's important stuff to talk about it if it comes up in debates and stuff like that.

01:00:31

It's worth going back to the original languages and original context and I just love taking opportunities like this and going

01:00:41

Because a lot of modern Christians have the idea That what those folks were arguing about back then

01:00:50

Let's be honest. We think That they missed it and that we've got

01:00:58

We're smarter there is there is a modern man hubris that we all suffer from and the reality is

01:01:08

Most of what Christians argue about with each other today is child's play in Comparison to what most of the conversation between Christians involved in centuries past Let's just be honest, that's just the way it is just the way it is

01:01:29

All right. Hey, as far as I can tell I didn't hear anything from rich that said we were having max headroom moments

01:01:38

No one No one has any idea what max headroom moments are but rich and I are old

01:01:44

And we remember max headroom and so it works for us so you just have to just have to let us do our it's sort of like when

01:01:52

Jason and I talk and we all of a sudden slip into Star Trek ease and He even he even did that A couple times in his presentation actually once he even used

01:02:03

Thanos as Illustration that one probably communicated with a wider variety but yeah, he he throws out the ugly bags of mostly water stuff and all that kind of stuff just sort of naturally for him and Yeah, so so there it goes.

01:02:19

Anyways Hopefully it's all worked. Well for everybody today Let's see.

01:02:25

Today is Thursday. So yeah First first three days of next week are

01:02:35

Moving long distances and staying over your only one night in a place and then heading out the next morning so I'm We'll just have to play it by ear

01:02:46

As to when we can get together. It all depends on if I'm speaking in the evening weather conditions road conditions construction all that kind of stuff, but you got the app

01:02:58

You'll know you'll be the first to know so Hopefully we'll be able to get together early on I know that first day is a long one so Questionable but um, anyways, thanks for watching the program today.