The Pope and the Lord's Prayer, Slander & Keyboard, SJC, Zachariades & God's Justice

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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and greetings welcome to the dividing line it is uh yes it's actually working it's actually someone i i'll get this done early on someone sent me something and rich didn't realize what it was he didn't read the box uh well enough he just thought it was an enterprise you saw geek and moved on uh it is an enterprise uh it's uh you know that's the original ncc1701 um but this is actually an enterprise pizza cutter you can yeah you see it i i think it would be absolutely blasphemous to get tomato sauce and cheese all over the saucer section of the enterprise i it just it just doesn't it just that just doesn't i i don't know if i could do that but it is a yeah you could you could you could even do a deep dish with that one it's uh the enterprise pizza cutter but you know it's a pretty it's a pretty narrow saucer section you know it really is uh but um it's pretty sharp too right uh it's really sharp right yeah yeah you gotta be careful that would keep it next to the swords but uh yes it is the uh the original enterprise pizza cutter which rich didn't realize it was a pizza cutter so uh but i realized it was a pizza cutter as soon as i well it says on the box uss enterprise pizza so i'm not really sure where to where to put the pizza cutter it sort of has to sort of looks like it's crashing uh i suppose i could lean it up against the no i ain't gonna work oh we're just gonna leave it there for the moment we'll have we'll figure out a way to deal with that later on but uh there you go the uh the enterprise pizza cutter thank you very much for that i came in really early today had a great uh opportunity via skype to spend some time with my doctoral advisor down in south africa and uh starting off your morning uh with in -depth discussions of cbgm and uh criticisms thereof and application to papyri and stuff like that pretty much leaves you pretty much brain dead the rest of the day i just used it all up in one shot that was all that was all there was but uh exciting stuff going on there but i'm no not getting into that today i don't care what anybody asks me on twitter we're not doing the um the uh that that thing there no and you might say well you look so you're wearing a uh you're wearing a flannel shirt must be cold outside i think it got down to 49 uh but the high today is supposed to be 79 which would be uh another blowing another record away by three or four yeah it got up to 79 in my place yesterday 79 yeah i mean up in feoria oh okay yeah yeah it's just ridiculous uh it's just it's wrong we need some cold here in the desert that's just all there is to it because if it keeps going like this it's just going to stay like this and then just right back up to broiling well i think we had the one or two days of winter isn't that gone no we had we had what 69 that's no i'm sorry that does not count yeah uh does not count that wasn't even that wasn't even normal uh so no uh normal right now is 66 degrees and uh we're gonna be 13 degrees above it and it's just it's wrong it is just i know i'm complaining i'm sorry but that's just that's just the way it is um uh yeah anyway um oh and uh happy birthday to a friend of mine up in evergreen colorado uh 49 i'm sure uh the folks have put up with me sometimes for weeks on end in evergreen colorado and it is putting up with me believe me uh you know getting up at who knows when the morning in the dark and riding off into the mountains and doing strange things like that but uh it's what i live for during the year uh is to is to get there anyways got lots of stuff to get to let's go ahead and get through the head shake well actually everything's head shaking today except the last thing um no the pope cannot change the bible uh the pope the pope can't change the bible and uh what actually happened here is um french bishops had adopted a french version of the lord's prayer that is not that is not faithful to the original it's it is a interpretive dynamic translation it's not even a translation it's an interpretation uh that basically says uh let us not fall into temptation for those of you who have been hiding under a rock someplace social media and everything blew up with um pope francis wants to change uh the wording of uh the lord's prayer and instead of lead us not in temptation it should be do not let us fall into temptation and you know once i heard that um you just you have to remember something this pope is a leftist he's not only a leftist politically he is a leftist theologically even within you know he's a jesuit with within roman catholicism he is way off to the left and leftists like certain forms of uh well the idea of a fixed scriptural text is anathema to them it's it it gives them hives and so uh paraphrasing things and and it just fits perfectly with who francis is okay it's just the liberal way of doing things and so francis does not have the concept of objective revelation and certainly not the sovereignty of god or the idea of a divine decree or anything like that at all ah that's right i uh i forgot uh what do i call that uh i don't know if i'll be able i'll just put thing for now i just put add some of the topic list if i i forgot to bring it up so i'm not even sure i can get to it but anyway um it just popped into my mind there uh like i said it was an early morning um so he he reports said and this is you know people like to just jump on everything the pope says and the problem is unlike past popes this pope is a little bit like trump it's almost like there's a papal twitter account there is a papal twitter account but um he's much more likely to give interviews and the problem is he speaks a number of languages and so you you get the issue of translation and he's better in certain languages than he is in other languages and so it's real easy for people to say did you hear the pope said the pope said well this pope does say some wild things when when you're talking about homosexuality say who am i to judge yeah the pope says some wild things and he's he's as liberal as day as long it is obviously um just ridiculously clear that he does not believe does not believe the same things as his predecessor who's still alive this is a great time for illustration of the the fact that uh the roman catholic concept of the papacy as this means of getting past the problems with all you protestants all you got's the bible once you get all these disagreements as a result yeah we do have disagreements but it's not because of that you got disagreements amongst your currently living popes for crying out loud that's just how it works uh you know i i mean seriously and so when you when you listen to this guy you you gotta you gotta be really careful and and go okay is this someone's interpretation translated from one language to another language are they going from italian to latin from latin to italian who knows what they're doing you've just got to be careful there's no reason to jump on things instantly and a lot of people like to do that remember uh amazingly jordan hall still thinks he was right about this but a couple years ago this same pope uh in a in a talk said that the cross was a failure oh look the pope is fine the mask has slipped off the pope is finally dead and it was just like uh no in in context he was talking about from the world's perspective and and a number of us you know had to take the time to write an article go into what he actually said he's look the problem with roman catholicism on the atonement is the issue of the mass and the fact that the mass is a perpetuatory sacrifice that perfects no one that's the issue and it's almost like today it's like you know that's not a really exciting objection i'd rather have something more exciting i mean if i put that on my facebook feed i'm only gonna get a few likes i mean who cares i mean people been saying that for years i got it i want something new and exciting and ruckus and it's like yeah well whatever okay um so they're it's easy to jump onto uh the pope and to to jump on things take the time to find out if a serious translation has been provided if there was a context that was actually there what the background is there's plenty of things to criticize about this pope but so many things have been taken apart because they were premature um they they were not um really properly researched that a lot of folks are just sort of backing away and going the pope said it maybe he did maybe he didn't don't really care i've been burned too many times and just just move on from there so it's a bit of a problem um there isn't any question about what matthew 16 6 13 reads and the parallel passage in luke 11 4 or is it was it 11 4 uh let me let me check here uh luke 11 4 yeah um both use the same term uh uh ice pharaoh means to lead into or to bring someone into the condition of the text is simply an expression of the petitioner's prayer um that we be delivered from be put in the position if you don't believe that god does test his saints not tempting them with evil himself being the source of that but he always puts his people in situation he doesn't he doesn't carry us about on beds of ease he puts us in difficult situations situations that test and try the character etc etc but obviously it should be our desire that god would in this day lead us in such a way that we are not in constant strife and battle if we're simply expressing our desire there and so the whole point is the the pope doesn't have that concept he doesn't have the concept of of god's um uh sovereignty providence i mean the guy's pretty much universalist you know i mean liberalism just doesn't just doesn't have any place for this and that's where it's really coming from instead people are getting the idea the pope thinks he can change the bible that he wasn't he wasn't saying i as the bishop of rome determined that uh uh that uh the terminology that was utilized that ice pharaoh is not the proper uh greek term now i suppose given what rome has done uh i guess it would be possible that you could do this because remember the for years the official version of the bible for rome was not the greek new testament it was the latin vulgate and that was the language of the church and that was that was the infallible revelation but even then once they abandoned that there is still the argumentation that well you know in matthew chapter 16 the original aramaic would indicate well we don't have an original aramaic and there is no evidence there's no solid compelling evidence that the book of matthew was written in aramaic uh the matthew we possess today was originally written in greek and the vast majority of scholarship recognized it's only fringe stuff that says anything other than that and so you can speculate all you want on what the original aramaic would be if you want to sell books that's what you do you speculate on the original aramaic but you don't have any evidence for it and so i suppose uh that the pope could claim that that ice pharaoh to lead um to lead into a condition is somehow misrepresentative of the original aramaic but they need to have to actually come up with a um an original aramaic which ain't gonna do it's not he's not gonna say and the aramaic was that i don't know why he wouldn't have that capacity but that's not gonna happen in the in the modern day it's almost like a revelational type thing i suppose so that's what's really going on with this whole thing it's sort of been blown out of out of proportion uh to be honest with you but at the same time what it demonstrates is just how far to the left uh francis is and when you can go from the former head of the congregation for the faith which is i .e

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the inquisition uh and that's what ratzinger was uh to francis in one shift that that's a pendulum swing like you wouldn't believe and uh you know from from the world's perspective that's not overly surprising it's all politics anyways but to the believing roman catholic that believes that these are the these men are the vicar of christ and uh they're the ones that deliver us from the from the uh confusion of solo scriptura and all the rest of that stuff sorry doesn't work doesn't happen um and so that's that's what's going on there keep that in mind as you hear the discussions going on so on and so forth all right um let's uh change where did it go what am i looking at uh oh i brought is uh is that the full meme uh james white's mere christianity at the bottom okay um over uh some at some point over the past couple of days i uh i mean i wrote a little article on facebook i think it was to see one two three four five yeah six paragraphs which uh was likened to a book by jordan hall um i won't make any further comments from there even though a joke did suggest itself to me um i wrote a little article and it was on the subject of michael brown now mike is uh has expressed willingness to join uh with me the week after christmas so we will uh do probably another skype interview and we'll uh address some of the issues that have been raised in these recent articles but what i what i wrote about is i i mentioned a friend of mine who i didn't mention by name who believes who sincerely believes that michael brown is needs to get saved he's just said that straight it needs to get saved now that has always been in the context of michael brown doing something that in this brother's opinion indicates such a horrific lack of discernment that he can't possibly be saved and what i want to address is basically what i want to say is check your fundamentalism at the door check your fundamentalism at the door now let me define the term fundamentalism i did a seminar years and years and years ago man it must have been early 90s on fundamentalism and why i'm a fundamentalist it's on the sermon audio page and what it was on was on the historic set of books called the fundamentals out of which came the terminology of fundamentalism it was a reaction against the rapid rise of liberalism in many denominations and the abandonment of basically christian supernaturalism and it was focused upon particular fundamentals without which you don't have the christian faith you know supernaturalism divine revelation the death burial resurrection of jesus christ the virgin birth the second coming of christ it may have been attached to a particular theory the second coming of christ but the the fundamentals the foundational issues and obviously this is just descriptive of historic christianity this is just whatever generation you want to look at and so on one level you can say there have been fundamentalist christians the problem is that term has changed meaning in our society today fundamentalism has a overwhelmingly negative meaning and it has come to mean a and to represent a narrow -mindedness a fear of exposure to other perspectives now the original fundamentalists were not afraid of exposure to other perspectives they just simply rejected the other other perspectives having examined them having engaged them and saying no this is not christianity but there wasn't any fear of even acknowledging other perspectives out there fundamentalism today would be identified with a mindset that is so narrow that it is a fearful mindset it is fearful of exposure to other perspectives than its own i mean if i was identified identify any one particular thing with the with modern fundyism it would be the idea that if you're a true christian you look like me you act like me you talk like me you dress like me and so when we look if you want to see a fundamentalist look at sam gip now he's a king james only fundamentalist but but the mindset and what we what we recognize about these people is their willingness to be grossly ungracious and in fact the idea of being gracious is considered to be compromising and hence a a rejection of anyone that has any viewpoints other than their own these are the types of people that will write into their statements of faith now their statements of faith generally on things like christology training stuff that are abysmally lacking they're extremely shallow that's not even kind of stuff they worry about they don't they wouldn't even bother with the debate last summer about eternal functional subordination or that that's no no no they will come to blows literally over pre -trib mid -trib post -trip i mean they will write it into their confessions you have to be this or you are going to hell you're a christ denying enemy of god and so you know sometimes you sit back and you watch these folks taking each other on and they're just firing up the flamethrowers right and left and it's on stuff that you just sit back and go how can you do that but that's that's what happens and the fear factor is the idea of exposure to any other perspectives there's a real lack of confidence in the truthfulness of what they actually believe because they don't believe that anyone should ever take the time to read a perspective other than their own it's my way or the highway and it's not like i said it's imbalanced because it's not on the key issues it's not on the doctrine of imputation it's not on the uh the nature of the relationship of the father son and spirit or something like that no no no no no it it it's on everything other than those things it's it's again the issue of what are definitional issues what's the next important ring the next important ring then you've got the oddy offer around the outside they and they just draw a big old circle around all of it and say that either you agree with me or you're out of here and so this is the fundamentalist mindset and it's it's fairly common for reformed folks to make fun of fundamentalism and there are good fundamentalists and there are there are fundamentalists that have somehow managed to break out of the mindset but they're few and far between and reformed folks tend to make fun of fundamentalism a lot of reformed folks are former fundamentalists and so there can be a pendulum swing the other direction you know and so i'm gonna make fun of these folks and they're and all their strange goofy ways and their white shirts and dark ties and look like more missionaries up missionary tags and and um you know and and some of it can be fun i mean be honest with you there are so many memes and jokes and can be made out of certain movies that those of us who were actually raised in that genre can remember very well i mean all i have to say is lawn mower left running on lawn that's all i needed to say huh yep that's all i needed to say and you immediately start strumming your guitar and you've been left behind and you start immediately thinking of the midnight lock -ins on new year's eve and the terror that you first felt about being left behind at the rapture and oh you know see i've been there done that i was gonna say i got the t -shirt but it'd be more like got the white shirt uh squeaky black shoes pants and and dark tie anyway um so this this mindset um when you join it with calvinism it can get really weird it can get really strange but there are folks that try to do it and all of that is standing behind the article that i wrote where again i said i've got this friend and because michael brown does not have the discernment that this individual has well he needs to get saved needs to get saved and so i i put together a little checklist and i went down it i was going to bring him in here um i actually described where they are uh to you mike um but michael brown's five volume set answers to jewish objections to jesus if you have not seen this set you need to get it um it's almost encyclopedic and of course it it gives you information about early jewish sources that would be next to impossible for most of us to find anyways because michael would have access to those things um but it's the fruit of many many years of his study and so the first thing i i put on is it was michael brown a trinitarian i said check more so than 99 of all believers i know see his answers jewish objections to jesus five volume set um anyone who's and i linked at bottom of this uh to the youtube video a youtube video of the debate that michael and i did against two unitarians a number of years ago as illustration of this fact that we were able to defend the deity of christ we were able to almost finish each other's sentences in doing that debate against those uh those unitarians so is michael brown a trinitarian uh yes now this article that we're going to be talking about later on by anonymous folks who don't identify themselves um very clearly fundamentalists as well um question this we we will be addressing that but all aspects of christology that would mean virgin birth uh equality the son the father incarnation etc check virgin birth check death by resurrection of jesus check biblical inspiration check scriptural sufficiency check we'll talk about the charismatic thing later on uh biblical inerrancy bonus check and i say bonus check because uh it's interesting a lot of i mean i wouldn't say the uh william lane craig michael icono group gets that check uh i don't i don't really believe they honestly believe in biblical inerrancy um but they'll be accepted very easily by a lot of these folks because but but that's sort of you second coming check final judgment check absolute necessity of god's grace and salvation check substitutionary atonement check even defended against brian zahn at ihop now the very fact he went to ihop to debate the issue would be enough for some people if you walk through that door might as well turn in your christian card right there you know you're you're going to hell in a handbasket that's just that's just how i feel about things well okay how you feel about things but how things really are different things justification by faith alone check and so i just went down this to say okay i start with what we have in common the ground that we share in common which is not the mere christianity stuff that we've been talking about for years where all you have is the trinity and the crucifixion and you can't even talk about what that means you can't you can just simply confess it but you you can't talk about what the crucifixion means you can't talk about substitutionary atonement uh you just have to have those basic things that's the mere christianity movement and so this uh meme this uh post i'm sorry that was put up by slander and keyboard um last evening uh has the title james white's mere christianity checklist and shady litmus litmus test for brotherhood mere christianity checklist well if if that's referring to my use of mere christianity it's a lie again nothing unusual from slander and keyboard um because mere christianity even as the term was used by c .s

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lewis specifically did not include the gospel issues that i included in the list um so we're left wondering a if white is consistent in his mere christianity checklist if he can't denounce the brotherhood of certain men like who cannot check off the list now i'm wondering what are they talking about um given that one of the first people to be talking about responsibly talking about the hank hanegraaff story was myself i think it's because when i talk about eastern orthodoxy i don't just simply go ah it's just a different form of catholicism because i know better i've actually done enough reading you know i've just see fundamentalist mindset detests the effort necessary to make proper category distinctions and so even though i was attacked vociferously by people i had people threatening me because what i said about orthodoxy if you come to ukraine where i'm gonna you know and all the rest of stuff okay so we got those hot heads on the other side hot heads on the other side are uh well since since you make a distinction and you recognize the differences that exist and that eastern orthodoxy has just a very different character than roman catholicism does in regards to its very essence and nature and its sources of authority and so on so forth and you still disagree with it but you you have to do so differently well then you're a compromiser too uh you're uh you're ecumenical uh in fact wasn't that yeah uh the narrow way is significantly broader in james white's growing ecumenical world see this is a fundamentalist mindset that will not invest the necessary effort to be truthful honest have integrity intellectually speaking you want you don't want shades of difference in the fundamentalist world uh it's all black and white you're either for us or you're against us it's all there is to it and all them they're east north doxy guys you know them theirs they they's they wear funny clothes so they they be a guinness that's the fundamentalist mindset and doesn't matter whether you call yourself a calvinist or not it's the fundamentalist mindset and so i don't recall even addressing the issue of hank handograph in the sense of i guess what they want you to do is if you i guess what they want you to say is that it is absolutely impossible for a true christian to ever join the eastern orthodox church evidently they have some uh biblical methodology of understanding that uh that is so wrong and so out there and there's the that everybody in east orthodox church all believes the same thing and therefore since it's wrong you'd have to deny christ you have to deny who jesus christ is to become eastern orthodox and therefore hank handograph committed the ultimate act of apostasy and i'm supposed to judge that somehow i think that's what's going on here i think so you can say this is this is such a sad thing to see hank handograph is being inconsistent i i guess they didn't like the fact that i pointed out that that hank has sort of developed his own ishy squishy western version you know you say i've i've not changed at all i'm believing the same thing well no no actually you're not because there are certain things here that east orthodoxy is saying that you are saying as well that would say that you're not saying the same things you did before but you're being very confusing oh no there can't be room for confusing you you have to make look you've just got to draw the line right here right now you've got to judge people's hearts and you can't allow for any other possibilities that's again that's the that's fundyism all the way down the line so if i want to say look eastern orthodoxy roman catholicism here's where they are here's the range of beliefs in each one and this is what's dangerous here and this is what's dangerous there and that's just right out that's this this leads to that that leads to that you have to then make the next step and this is where fundyism and i separate and anyone who would associate with that knows all of this agrees with all of this and is going to follow lockstep and all these things and therefore i can judge their heart i can't do that sorry go ahead you obviously are willing to judge mine so i i can't stop you you got you all are good at doing that you will have to answer before god for that someday and and i don't want to be in your shoes when you do i'm not sure if you wear shoes in heaven but or if it's even in heaven i don't know not going to judge but what the fundamentalist cannot stand is saying here is false teaching rome rome false gospel are there roman catholics who don't believe the false gospel part of roman catholicism sure hope so sure hope so i've said that for a long time eastern orthodoxy much more nebulous on the issues of dogma is this teaching of eastern orthodoxy uh in the escalation and elevation of tradition to the position of denying solo scriptura um is this a horrendously dangerous thing it is is it wrong it is therefore anyone who would associate with that is going to hell there's where you've got your problem where do you have the idea where do you get the idea that every single christian will always have your understanding of everything they can't have confusion for anybody look i've been doing this long enough that i have met people who were raised in the truth frequently because of things that happened in the church abusive pastors non -caring pastors things that happened in churches went off into error and you know what happened over time god actually even used this ministry to bring them back to the truth now you can sit here and go that means they were never saved in the first place that means they only got saved at the end well if you want to i'm not going to make that decision god has had i've seen times in people's lives god had a purpose in allowing them to go through things that then allowed them at a later time in their life to be able to warn others use them as an instrument i think my job is actually to speak the truth and to speak it in love and where i left fundamentalism behind and now find it extremely distasteful is the demand that i extend my understanding on on issues beyond what the new testament actually defines as definitional to the point where i get to judge other people's hearts i guess it makes you feel better i i don't know if you can you know just sort of wrap your fundamentalist robes around you as you condemn people to hell and feel better about it i i don't know maybe maybe it just makes i guess i guess there's some power in that i'm not interested in it but if you that's what you want to do so do i know hank canegraaff's heart no uh do i do i think that what he's done is is extremely dangerous and misleading and i would i would call him to abandon it and of course i've done all of that but do i know his heart am i am i in position of of extending from saying this is where east orthodoxy is wrong now it's in those very areas he tries to bend stuff and try to say i haven't changed and okay i think he's trying to hold stuff together he shouldn't try to hold together um could he be lost yeah could be um could people in solid bible -believing churches be lost who never even give a hint of wavering one way or the other they could be too you see i don't see into people's hearts i don't have that ability the only ability i'm given i'm given god's revelation speak it truthfully i can actually hear you fairly well we were speaking before the show and you know i look at all this and as i told you then my big fear has to do with when i see the anger and the rage and the malice and the judgment of men of other we haven't gotten anger rage and malice yet i know we're at the nice part my fear and i think it should be the fear of every believer everyone who confesses christ your first thought should be but for the grace of god therego i am what what what keeps me from falling into that pit and when you point your bony finger at others who are straying or and you start drawing judgment upon them ah i i don't want to be that guy well and it's not a situation of necessarily straying i mean we would agree hank hanegraaff is straying that's not the issue uh these are people that are pointing the finger at at people who are just not standing on one foot to stay inside the super tight circle that they themselves define no when i say stray i'm talking about these guys i'm talking about a man who feels so self -righteous that he can judge those others that's the man that is straying but much bigger than those he's criticizing and every person who does it thinks that they are doing god service by so doing that's the dangerous part and that's that's why we need each other that's why we need balance that's why we need to have that's why we need to have friends who do not just look like us and talk like us and dress like us um we need to have see and that's why they that's why my friendship with mike brown is such a affront these people is because they're scared of that they know in their heart of hearts that that's exactly where they are that they are uncomfortable around anyone who doesn't look like them dress like them talk like them and that's fundamentalism that's the fundamentalist mindset and uh somebody asks i think are you talking about the um the fellow in channel is asking i'm assuming you're talking about jason yeah yeah about oh okay well again i can't judge hearts but when when someone has the level of light that he had and you know it's not it's it's not just see that's a that's a that's a that's a different situation because i was involved in actually talking to him i mean there's someone i can say i looked him right in the eye and i said this is a heart issue this is a gospel issue these these topics you're raising are not the reason you're doing this there's something else uh you're you're specifically abandoning the the finishedness of the work of christ uh again even in that situation it is not my position to judge in fact i was gonna i was gonna point this out what is the for for christians and we're and we're not talking about there i'm concerned about people who try to make normative christian experience elijah on the mount on mount carmel elijah on mount carmel is not normative christian experience and you are not the prophet elijah okay you're not jesus with a whip in the temple you are not sinless we are given specific explicit instructions as to the attitude that we are supposed to have toward other people okay number one when we do look at scripture as to the uh some of the strong what are what are we allowed to say about someone who goes into apostasy well you look at first corinthians chapter five um you're talking about someone in the christian congregation that engages in incest okay now this isn't a doctrinal issue this is a behavioral issue but someone in the congregation what does paul say for i on my part though absent body but present spirit have already judged him who has so committed this as though i were present in the name of our lord jesus when you're assembled and i with you in spirit with the power of our lord jesus i've decided to deliver such a one to satan for the destruction of his flesh so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the lord jesus now it's fascinating even though this is an apostle there is something supernatural going on here so it's it's even then we can't pretend that we are paul we can't pretend that we are apostles you still don't have final judgment being proclaimed by paul you don't just say put him out he's on his way to hell it says i've decided to deliver such a one to satan for the destruction of his flesh so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the lord jesus there's still even in that situation a redemptive hope that is expressed by the apostle you don't have this that person's going to hell that person's going to hell you just don't have it so it if you're wondering where does this desire to condemn come from it it really i think is a part of the fundamentalist mindset that says if this is true then and i cannot allow for any gradations i cannot allow for any circles i can't have here's the core these are really important these are really important little less important stuff out here we can disagree on that's how adults used to think not so much millennialism today the millennials today but millennialism millennials today but that's how adults used to think we recognize the necessity of this but that's not fundamentalism fundamentalism draws the circle around all of it and says it's either all true or it's all false and therefore if you disagree with me out here i can't have you in my fellowship i can't have you in the circle of true believers because that threatens my entire epistemology that's fundamentalism and uh it becomes real ugly when it becomes applied so i think we can pray for hank canagraph we need to point out to everybody once again he's not presenting biblical doctrine anymore he's not the bible answer man he's the tradition answer man we've played on this program him answering questions about james too and we've refuted his misrepresentation of james too we've refuted his view on uh on the sacraments and the lord's supper and issues like that does that but and the the immediate thing is and that means i get to say he's going to hell no you don't leave it to god pray for him refute what he says it's wrong but you are not god and and i can guarantee you every single one of us i don't i don't know if you walk up to people in heaven i don't know exactly how that works none of us do but to use that illustration you're going to walk up to people in heaven or you're going to have people walk up to you in heaven that you're pretty surprised to see there and you're also going to be looking around for folks that you're pretty surprised or not and i don't want to be one of those people that's really really surprised both directions or so surprised that i'm not there leave it to god stay focused and firm on what's been revealed leave the rest to the lord i'm not really sure why we want god's grace to be so narrow and limited or the number of the elect who are saved to be so few i remember something about the sands of the sea and there's got to be some way somehow to put together the sands of the sea with the narrow gate versus the broad gate it's not easy to do but seems that the fundamentalists really like the narrow gate and they generally put the name of their church over the top not going to work that way not going to work that way um b exactly how many heretics james white would affirm as brother in christ because their webs their website orthodox i'm not sure what website orthodox means um but we had been promised in an earlier um thing from slandering keyboard that that they're going to be doing more about this and i'm and i'm sure i'm sure that they will um they and their 12 followers will be very very excited about about that but um um there there you go so there's that one and i think we already took that one down um i guess that's the only one i brought up in that without that okay um along the same lines today online as as the program was was progressing as i had started off there were still tweets coming in i have to scroll through all the trump stuff uh to to find to go back to them um but uh steve camp uh was busy uh responded to something i said yesterday and i want to address this again how you approach presenting the truth will often give an insight into whether you are presenting the truth because you want to promote yourself build yourself up or whether you actually want to see that truth used to win others and what we're seeing in the non -outreach of so many to muslims and that's the only way to describe it the non -outreach um if if all you do is pass out a tract to a muslim with disdain fear no investment no prayer other than god protect me from these terrible horrible nasty people um that's non -outreach and as a number of people said i prefer my outreach to your non -outreach um which is definitely the case um but unfortunately brother camp has sort of become a poster child for the kind of mindset amongst evangelicals that breeds fear division and ends meaningful evangelistic outreach and a demonstration of love to the muslim people you cannot describe the man's attitude toward muslims as love you just can't do it and he had whenever anything happens like uh the the bombing the messed up bombing in new york uh i mean you can't you can't mess up a bombing any worse than that was messed up uh which we can be thankful for uh steve camp tweets me and basically blames me for it i'm these are your people it's it the irrationality is stunning uh how far the man has fallen it's it's it's it's it's really really sad to see we've had him on the program in the past uh it's it's very very difficult to see where he's going but um this morning three hours ago he said here's a fact jim all of your debates with members of islam haven't produced any converts to christianity not one we all know these events are for promotion of you they're a show apologetic entertainment otherwise there'd be real tangible gospel fruit how sad now when you read that notice what it says haven't produced any converts to christianity not one and so when i saw that i pointed out that for example just last year when we were at kensington temple after the debate there i was greet i've got pictures uh of this actually i wouldn't put this up because i we do especially in dealing with islam we do not uh try to parade people around as former muslims um and in fact i think one of the most disgusting elements of evangelicalism is how often you take x whatever and immediately parade them around i can i can give you names of people right now especially ex -mormons who were shoved out into churches to talk about mormonism destroyed them not even christians today not even christians today um and there's a lot more reason not to do that with people who leave islam and embrace the faith we don't do that but i mentioned an individual that came up to me uh after the debate at kensington temple and talked about um how the debates we had done down through the years had been absolutely central to this man coming out of islam and embracing jesus christ as lord and savior and we we embraced each other and and it was it was a wonderful thing and i have many stories like this we don't talk a lot a lot about on the air because there's no reason to do so the people who support this ministry do so because they recognize the consistency of the proclamation the teaching and the handling the word of god they don't need the rah -rah wave the flag stuff um they recognize what we're doing and and that's why they support us that's why we can continue doing the things we're doing anyway so i mentioned that and what was steve's response here's here's here's the response response was well wait a minute let me let me uh poof gone uh trying to trying to find trying to following threads uh on twitter can be really really sad uh actually i just need to go to myself i guess and uh there we go what here's what i responded i said just sitting here thinking of the kind young man who came up to me after the debate at kensington temple in london thanking me for being used to bring him to the feet of jesus out of islam you are so in darkness steve it is sad so how do you how do you respond to something like that from uh from him uh that's anecdotal and so arminian of you how do you i'm you i mean i suppose it would be better to to weep at such silliness but not what my post was about i'm referring jim to those you've actually debated as you're sitting there recalling tender moments can you name anyone islam you've ever debated this kind of look that's not actually what he said did he he said all of your debates members of them haven't produced any converts to christianity not one that's not what he said so this man is so self -deceived now that he can change his own words within one tweet once refuted to say well yeah but the people you've debated haven't converted uh i i know one guy debated that's no longer a muslim but it wasn't because of me uh never made a claim never made a claim otherwise but let me tell you something mr camp i'd like to think that a majority a majority of those that i have debated if you were to ask them what form of christianity of all the people you've debated what form of christianity would be the one you'd be willing to listen to because you really believe the person you're debating believe what they believe and and really wanted to see the best for you it wouldn't be yours it wouldn't be yours not with your attitude not with your bigotry wouldn't be yours that's the sad part that's the sad part um and then uh he had made a comment oh yeah this is where i started he put a meme up a quotation as i recall from uh from isaiah or something along those lines it was uh no first 76 15 to 6 who's appearing the blessed and only sovereign king of kings lord of lords revealed at the right time he alone possesses immortality lives in an unapproachable light whom no human eye or a senior is able to him be honor and eternal power forever beautiful text from the scriptures it says compare the holy true transcendent lord god the bible described in the meme below with the impotent stone demon idol false god of a law invented by the pedophile prophet muhammad that was his tweet and my response to it uh was yeah that's how you get thoughtful muslims to consider the contrast between the beauty of biblical revelation and the chronic conception slap them in the face with an insult first clearly sjc has zero interest in reaching those folks that's what started this what mindset causes you to take a beautiful text description and then combine it with these kinds of words impotent stone demon idol false god of a law invented by the pedophile prophet muhammad simple fact here inarguable if that if you walk up to someone if you walk up to a muslim and say i want to talk about your pedophile prophet muhammad you hate them you hate them you you want to repel them you want to drive them as far away from the truth as you possibly can don't lie to me you know it in your heart you hate them well but it's true okay i don't even know why i try reasoning with these folks because there's no reasoning with them but maybe for some others i have seen i look i'll take that back i have had people i have had a lot of people contact me and say you know what i've really been convicted about my attitude because of what's happened here and they've repented of it so it is worthwhile doing you're walking down the road and a man walks up to you let's say you're wearing a christian t -shirt or you're carrying your bible or maybe even out doing some street witnessing i put it in a context where somehow the fact that you're a christian is knowable to the people around you a person walks up to you and they start off by saying well i have to be i have to even be careful about how i would say this um let's say they make some kind of a reference to jesus being the illegitimate offspring of joseph and mary okay and they use colorful terminology it's the first words out of their mouth so you're a follower of that colorful terminology now um how much credibility is that person going to have in your mind immediately what are the conclusions immediately in your mind this is a person who wants to fight this is a person who has no personal concern about me they do not respect me uh they are repulsive to me they are immature immediately i mean i mean it's it would take them a lot of work to undo the purposeful effect of their words upon you so when you approach a muslim in the way that steve camp said to do that in that tweet it's exactly what you're doing to them exactly what you're doing to them and i haven't even touched on the issue of aisha steve camp knows nothing about islam all he knows he's learned from listening to fox news and people on fox news and people like that doesn't do issues it says to us we shouldn't read islamic we shouldn't do original reading shouldn't do it so the man is as ignorant as a day is long of the subject from original sources secondary sources oh i'm sure he listens to all that stuff with that you combine that with the bigotry that flows from that approach and you call that the proper means of approaching someone in doing evangelism you you can honestly tell me that flows from a heart that is broken and is praying for the evangelism of the muslim people it's a lie i don't believe it for a second don't believe it for a second you're not giving yourself to reach these people you're trying to drive them away that's what you're doing in the name of christ it's reprehensible absolutely reprehensible i want nothing to do with it and i want to be very clear right here in this program i condemn it oh now you're doing what they're doing to you if you can't see the difference i can't help you if you cannot see the difference i cannot help you i really can't uh you raised your microphone once again you you talk about this and i think of when years ago before the king james only has poisoned the well up in salt lake city when we were able to pass out tracks uh i'll never forget out of the south gate i was tracting and this man walked up and i went to pass him a track i presumed he was a mormon turned out he was an atheist the first thing he said to me is so do you know that god is the author of child abuse now that man didn't want to talk to me and that was his way of repelling me right and it totally caught me off guard i'm like what are you talking about he goes you believe that god put his son on a cross and had him killed your god is the author of child abuse and he walked away from me and i was stunned i i'd never heard anything like that before in my life and that's exactly the effect that he wanted i've got uh i've got someone in uh turkey that tweeted to me listening listening live right now let me tell you dr white robert spencer style apologetics doesn't work if you want a muslim to listen to you and hear what you're saying i live in turkey i know this firsthand that's the one thing this whole this attitude is sadly very american it's very american and it comes from people who have zero experience in actually doing ministry outside the united states in these lands with these people um it's it's from the safety of their of their nice comfy homes uh where they can express their bigotry toward others um it's uh it's a sad thing to see but these are people who are you know janet mefford gives steve camp a a platform for promoting this kind of stuff and so we cannot how can we object when muslims overseas or in the united states point to that and go there's your christianity there's your people who say they love jesus if we don't say anything about it and say this is absolutely inconsistent with how we are supposed to act how we are supposed to present the gospel to other people how are we supposed we have to people i'm just so tired of this so am i put yourself in my shoes anything i say is going to be twisted and turned and the context ignored by people who call themselves reform baptists for crying out loud you you think you're tired of it but i'm not going to stop talking to the muslims i i wanted to get back to hijaz ahmed's uh stuff here but i haven't even gotten to everything i need to get to here lest i be accused of dodging and hiding and all the rest of stuff you know the sad thing i don't know if any of you saw jordan hall hijack the comment thread on a chris arnson chris arnson's post i think the day before yesterday jordan hall hijacks the comment thread and uses oh i won't even repeat the the language that he used to describe chris arnson as a sycophant of mine it was absolute it was there's there's no one to call him to repentance anymore evidently uh because it was just and again for him as a i was just being manly you know that's how we do things up here in montana you know right okay anyway uh he goes after you know chris for being a sycophant and another and anybody else who tried to interact with him whatsoever you just you just you just get attacked right right left and center in the pro in the process he he he lives in the past i was right about this and i was about that and i was and he's talking about stuff the pope that he was totally obliterated on i mean just blown out of the water but he was still right about it it's just like wow self -deception um and here's this lady here's a lady no one seemed to notice it and i didn't feel like it was proper to continue hijacking the thread necessarily to to invest the time but here's this poor christian lady you know she says go back and look at it if it's still up i don't know it's hard yeah it's hard to find stuff though after a few days on facebook anyway she said she responds to his claims and well i always thought james white was pretty solid i'm gonna have to look into this the willingness of people to believe even the most absurd slander is truly sad it really really is now i just have to hope you know over time that people will check things out for themselves but a lot of people won't and a lot of people get turned off to the information that would have helped them the sources that would have helped them because of the slander of you may have noticed i'm using the term uh slandering keyboard because that's all i can see pulpit and pen doing i mean pulpit is a is a beautiful term uh the pen mechanism of spreading god's truth that's that's not what pnp is doing uh obviously someone isn't even listening steve just tweeted right now want to read it want to read a steve camp tweet right now the u .s