William Albrecht

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three three-four-one. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Tuesday Edition, Travel Plans, and Prayer for the Nation

And good afternoon, welcome to a special Tuesday edition of the dividing line. Didn't have it a normal time today. And of course will not be able to have the dividing line on Thursday due to the obvious fact that They still do not allow you to do that.

And you know what? I don't think it's all that bad thing because I it would be really annoying If I was in seat next to somebody trying to do the dividing line of my cell phone at 38 ,000 feet. It's like that.

They're trying to sleep or something like that. But you they I don't think they'd appreciate that at all. So or anybody else especially the people who think that you have to yell in cell phones to be heard in public.

Imagine doing it. You're on the cell phone and so are they. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So there you are while you're trying to do a show. Yeah, it's.

Well, you know as soon as you land land you hear, you know, all these cell phones turning on and Very quickly you find out the people who don't realize that's that that they make very sensitive microphones.

So you don't have to yell. Yeah, go ahead and sell 4 ,700 shares of the you know, it's like oh, please stop my goodness. Don't you understand? Everybody in this airplane knows exactly what you're saying.

Oh anyways. So we can't do the dividing line on Thursday because that's what I'm headed heading to the United Kingdom and Next week Lord willing. We will try to do a dividing line on on Monday. But I will let you know from there if that's gonna be able to work out because I Know where I'm staying and there's actually isn't internet in the rooms.

You have to go down and use internet someplace else and stuff like that. So unless that's changed since I was there last that's I could change. I don't know. Well, we'll figure out how we're going to do that and we will do that from from the UK.

Then of course Tuesday Thursday and the following Monday are the formal debates on Thursday likewise is the radio program preaching both Sundays. So it is going to be a very very busy time then. Of course the next week in Duke University the debate with Zulfikar Shah and the battle for truth Conference there in Durham.

So if you haven't signed up for the stuff in Durham, make sure that you that you do. So obviously a Very major day for Citizens the United States and I think for the whole world really. There are a lot of people around the whole world watching very carefully what's going on here.

I am quite concerned that there are a lot of people around the whole world who have been contributing to impact. What is going on in this in this election? I think that's a very bad thing but we we must pray that that God will Restrain the evil of men.

That's what government's supposed to do by the way. And that's one of the main things it's supposed to do. But we need to pray that God will restrain the evil of men that the church will continue to have the freedom to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and that is the most important thing, of course.

That we need to pray for and that while we have the freedoms we have that we will be able to continue to utilize them to the honor of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, so major day. Be good to sort of change the topic your mind is probably if you're like me you turn on the television and You know, it's it's hard to watch this stuff.

It's hard to Really Stay focused upon godly things. Sometimes there some Emotions that arise in your heart that maybe you're not the best things. So maybe at least for the next hour you can take your mind off of those things and think about some other things.

Common Ground Between Islam and Christianity

I was directed to a BBC it's really interesting. It's very very interesting two of my friends sent me Similar articles about the same thing. But if you read both articles if you didn't know they're about the same thing.

You'd sort of be a little bit surprised because they take such different spin on the same thing. Silly Brit one we will call him Colin Smith. Sent me a link to a BBC article and then Bo Boyd sent me a link to pretty much the same story from a completely different slant and.

And it was interesting to see the two perspectives as they as they come together. But the BBC article was interesting. Pope urged to admit common ground. When 138 senior Muslim scholars and clergy tried to establish the common ground between Islam and Christianity last year.

They said the very peace of the world hung on the outcome on Tuesday. A high-ranking delegation is beginning a rare visit in Rome. In an effort to persuade the Pope to endorse what they say are the shared origins and values the world's two biggest Religions.

Now, please note for most Muslims They do view Christian Christianity as Rome. It's it's they they really see the Pope as the Christian version of a caliph and As the speaking for all all Christians, and so when you say the man Who claims to be Holy Father?

Isn't anything even close? Then you know they go well, I just can't understand how that how that can be. So keep that in mind. I continue on their letter a common word. Cited passages from the Quran which the scholars said showed the Christianity and Islam worship the same God and required their respective followers to show each other particular friendship.

The document examined fundamental doctrine and stressed what it said were the key similarities such as the belief in one God and the requirement for believers to love their neighbors as Themselves. Significantly the letter acknowledged the Prophet Muhammad.

Was told only the same truths that had already been revealed to Jewish and Christian prophets including Jesus himself. After a year using the Islamic principle of seeking consensus the letter was developed into a Manifesto, and it's backed by almost 300 leaders from Sunni Shiite Sufi and other Muslim traditions.

The initiative was welcomed promptly by several Christian leaders including the Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams. Well I pause for just a moment to point out that with all due respect to my dear Anglican brothers.

The few conservative ones that are left in the world and I can name almost all of them on one hand and and all but one of them live in Australia. I know that's not true, but Most of them would actually agree with me that Rowan Williams is more pagan than he is Christian.

He's considerably more comfortable around paganism than he is around Christianity. And so the fact that he and others have embraced the common word is hardly overly Shocking. The Vatican has and this is the point the Vatican has however responded more cautiously this prospect of identifying common beliefs.

There has been renewed urgency among Muslim leaders to forge new bonds with Christians since the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001 a lecture by Pope Benedict quoting a 14th century Byzantine Emperor's accusation Muhammad encouraged the use of violence in Spreading Islam led to a furious reaction among Muslims and contributed the sense of a widening gap between the religions.

The high-ranking delegation going to Rome includes the Grand Mufti of Bosnia and Iranian Ayatollah a Jordanian prince and British converts to Islam. Now I Said when the Pope gave his talk That I certainly hoped he would not back down from quoting historical sources because that's all he was doing.

There are times quite honestly when much of Islam is appropriately designated as the religion of perpetual outrage and they just are looking for any possible reason to be offended and they want to interpret everybody else's words as if everybody else was a Muslim and so yeah, I'd be offended if I was a Muslim and Someone claimed to be a Muslim and they spoke in a particular way.

But you have to allow other people to believe what they believe. Well That's well at least in Western cultures. You have to do that. That's one of the big problems here. But the thing I just want to briefly focus upon is this Push Notice what it says significantly the letter acknowledged the Prophet Muhammad was told only the same truth that had already been revealed to Jesus and Christian prophets.

The folks we need to understand that what's really being pushed here is is a form of of dimitude if you don't know what dimitude is that is a dimi is a person under the alleged protection of the Islamic State he pays the jizya tax and he is he is In essence under the authority of the Islamic State and There is a form I believe of dimitude that people are trying to force upon all of that which is called Christianity.

Obviously bandit the 16th is a smart fellow and he knows Islam's theology. He's probably under constraints not be able to speak about it very openly, but he knows what Islam believes and he knows that from the Islamic perspective Jesus and the Apostles were Muslims and he knows from the Perspective of the Quran that All Jesus taught was to worship the one true.

God Allah. He never taught anyone to worship him never accepted worship never taught that he was the Son of God any of these things and when the Muslim Emphasizes that we all believe in one God. You need to understand that in the modern Muslim mindset When they say one God that is absolutely connected with the concept of Tawheed.

Tawheed is the the simplicity and purity of monotheism and here's the key point in the Muslim mind monotheism and Unitarianism are Absolutely the same thing no difference. One God means one God in being and person can't discuss it can't argue.

But that's just the way you just gotta accept that if you don't believe in Unitarianism. Then you're not a monotheist and so the Quran is rather clear. It's it's attack upon what it calls the three. Doesn't use the word Trinity uses the word three it once it says a third of three that Allah is a third of three.

But it's attack upon what we would call the Trinity. The author does not understand the Trinity. However, you understand the condo have come into existence. You got to deal with one major issue. It doesn't understand the doctrine the Trinity is and so in light of that It's constant attack upon the Christians is that they have engaged in excess in their religion.

And when it criticizes the three it's always three Gods. Not three persons doesn't show any understanding of that doesn't show an understanding of the relationship the father and the son. This is an eternal thing.

It's not a Creation thing nothing. There's no evidence that in the Quran at all. Instead what you have is this assertion that in essence? We are we are a kafir. We are we're coffers. We're unbelievers because we engage in Idolatry and we engage in that idolatry in the context of Believing in multiple gods because for them monotheism is Unitarianism.

Period end of discussion. And so you can't just simply go well, you know, yeah, we we all worship the same God. No, we don't. I worship the triune majesty. I worship a God who is triune and has eternally been triune and To say that we worship the same God when you yourself are denying fundamentally this nature of God is just simply beyond the pale and you just.

People want to just rush into that they did. Oh, here's here's an opportunity for peace. Well, is there any peace that's based upon something less than truth that is really lasting peace that that's the question that I have to ask so It is interesting to observe.

This particular discussion it again, I think illustrates The problem that we're facing in our culture today Western society in particular is facing. We have a real truth problem. We don't even recognize the meaning of truth the necessity of believing truth.

And when you can allow for all sorts of different kinds of truth remember the Quran identifies our belief in Jesus the Son of God as blasphemy curses are pronounced upon those who would believe what we believe and You know, everybody says well, we just all need to emphasize we share in common what we share in common well.

Has any marriage ever survived when people only dealt with each other Share common rather what our differences are. I don't don't think that that's that's really how truth is advanced and So it'll be interesting to see what comes out of all of this, but there simply can be no Meaningful dialogue that does not include a discussion of these fundamental issues now last week on the dividing line on Thursday we Played a video which was actually the second part of two videos and we did so for only one and one only reason and that is because Gentlemen by the name of Steve Ray has recommended to his readers on his blog Steve Ray a sometime Catholic apologist As he is fondly called by his followers Jerusalem Jones Who basically lives in an airplane and in airports?

Over in Israel and various and other sundry places and So Steve Ray has recommended The videos of one William Albrecht on YouTube and so I took the time To look at some of those things in fact someone sent me an email last Thursday.

In YouTube now almost it's I don't like YouTube emails. There's no way of controlling them filtering them doing anything else with them. I don't like the interface on them and all the rest that stuff and and for a long time I just had him turned off then for a while YouTube changed the interface, so I had no way of turning him back on I Unless you were on my friends list and there was only one person my friends list.

You couldn't send me an email anyway, so they finally figured out Oh, hey, we need to fix that and so I actually can get YouTube emails. But I generally it's almost never almost never engage in any kind of discussion in that particular context it just Just not enough time, and it's it's not very comfortable to do that anyway a guy sent me a YouTube link and I almost never look at them, but since he said hey Here's the guy who says he's calling in the dividing line on Thursday.

It was one of William's Videos and so William is called in today and before we Put him on the air. I would like to replay it will actually replay, but play The segment of the first video which we didn't get to last last week Just to set these things up, but William posted two videos in response to a single article that was posted by Turret and fan on the subject of Mariolatry as we would use that terminology in regards to the Roman Catholic over exaltation of Mary and Let's listen to some of the things that William had to say.

This video is to detail the usage of the poor scholarship of Alpha Omega ministries. Which is run by James White this latest? Diatribe against Catholicism was not written by James White by another blogger.

But obviously if it's appearing on a oh man. It reflects the approval of James White the director of Alpha Omega minister. Alpha Omega ministry excuse me. And the scholarship of this article. I think you read article in the right hand side of the of this page.

The scholarship is just awful. It's appalling. We're gonna start off with what the blogger is doing. And he's examining um he's examining a preaching of Pope of our Pope our Holy Father Benedict the 16th.

Who preached about placing the world in Mary's hand and many other Mary's hands and many other things? About a week back or so not even a week ago. I believe if it goes up on October the 19th or 18th or so.

But anyhow this blogger decided to take it into his own interpretation to say just exactly what the Pope is saying and to accuse Catholicism of worship worshiping Mary. That is. Anyhow, the first thing this person points out is this.

He quotes what Benedict is quoted from a website. I should the website says this. Benedict the 16th placed the world in Mary's hands during his one day visit to the shrine of Our Lady of the Rosary in Pompeii near Naples.

Well. The examination of this is absolutely true. Many prior Christians even early fathers placed in people in Mary's hands. It's definitely not simple in the sense that you ask for the intercession of a departed Saint.

Who is now closer to God than you are. You ask the same pray fee help you in your guidance towards the crown of eternal life? Such a thought is absent in Protestantism. Due to its false doctrines of sola scriptura and sola fide two doctrines that were created in the 16th century.

Of course you'll hear an uproar from ailmen say oh, that's not true. What about this and this. And that father they believed in sola scriptura sola fide and they'll do the famous Webster shuffle and Shuffle the intention to the father his quote around to make the seaman said the father supported the false doctrines of sola fide or sola scriptura.

Something James White has left but laughably try to do with Athanasius over and over in debates. Only to be made only to be made. Look foolish when it's shown that Athanasius was far from a trumpeter of sola scriptura.

Is what I called the Webster shuffle from anti-catholic individual William Webster was published laugh articles many times over and attempting to twit. And attempted to twist the church while there's not a place similar to the joke series that James produced on Ignatius that I tore to shreds.

You simply wonder how much longer you can take this ministry seriously. So that's the kind of.

Rhetoric that we have from from William. He included in the second video Stuff about my teaching of Greek. For example, we must ask.

Ailman Alpha Omega ministries or just ask James what to clarify? We're in the Greek. Maybe you know James sure you're a Greek expert. A I've been teaching Greek for like what 20 years 30 years. I mean, I wasn't even born since you've been teaching Greek for so long.

You're like the pro in it, right? Or maybe we can ask a James to um, it's a G the Aramaic. Right. I mean, maybe James has a secret Aramaic copy or the Latin or the Spanish or I mean, where can we Exegete this passage and find out that Christ is Castigating someone due to the radiation of Mary.

Etc. So so we played that last week and so after the program. Had some correspondence with with William and he said he would call in today, which he has done calling in. From Texas, so let's go ahead and talk with William from Texas.

William Albrecht on Marian Veneration and the Meaning of Worship

Hi William. How you doing James? Good evening. I'm pretty good.

But what particularly bothered me I heard you playing my video, uh, by the way, am I audible? Yes, you are All right. Well particularly pretty much bothered me. Um, I believe of course are the misrepresentations that you've allowed on your website.

I'm not even sure what the name of the poster was anymore. I found it. Uh, well, I guess particularly upsetting that I guess That he would allow such distortions. I believe at least on Catholic doctrine to be placed up there.

I guess for instance, um, I I don't have the article in front of me. I can pull it up if you'd like but uh Claiming that Mary worship is still alive and what what bothered me a little bit more You know was uh, the complete distortion of the message of Pope Benedict.

I mean to be quite honest I don't even know the poster you allowed to post read the whole thing in context. But uh, it it particularly bothered me and really the main reason I'm calling in is um, I guess You pretty much told me you're going to be able to document the evidence that you have that proves that Catholicism Worships Mary and I pretty much the main reason why I'm calling it.

Yeah. Well William.

I'm sure you've listened to my debate with Patrick Madrid on the subject. Yes.

Absolutely. I have but um, yeah, yeah. Yes, of course. Okay for the debate many times.

Okay, so since you've heard many times then can can you do what what Patrick didn't do and demonstrate that? Latria and Julia are not related in their root meaning in Scripture so that you can substantiate the distinction by which you can allow someone to hyper-venerate Mary to Pray to Mary to light candles to Mary to bow before statues of Mary and yet not call that Worship.

Can can you establish from the scriptures that that is in fact not worship?

Well, you made one interesting comment of them. I apologize. I didn't mark down where it was in your debate against Madrid. But um, I don't I'm not gonna be quoting you verbatim here. But you did say you said that when a soldier bows before a centurion.

But that would not be in a religious context right now. Actually, that's a very very good point you made James. I think it was a really good point because it allowed me to parallel the comment to us bowing before Representation of Mary least I believe the bowing that goes to Mary, of course, uh, they've done it in a proper form.

Of course, it's simply respect. That's it.

It's not a religious context. Can I finish?

What I'm saying, please the body goes to Mary in a form of respect and that's pretty much pretty much it. And I enjoyed your your comment because Similar to the bowing that a soldier gives to his higher authority because I I guess I believe the higher authority deserves that honor I think Mary Mary Similarly is closer to God than we are and it's and as achieved that crown that it be right to one day also achieve.

That's pretty much the reason why Catholics honor Mary. Mary also. Like the centurion was a human not a god and that's pretty much the plain and simple fact. We bow to Mary without her and respect her and honor her and acknowledge the beauty of God's creation.

We don't honor the statue or respect the statue at all. I mean the honor goes to Mary which ultimately goes to God. So, uh, I don't I didn't quite understand that analogy of yours. If I really don't I don't think it really holds up when you compare the analogy.

Well, since you just use the analogy as I pointed out You just misused it and that is I said that in a non-religious context proskune. Oh could be used of Something that was not worship. However proskune. Oh when it is used in a religious context always does mean worship.

That is why when people tried to proskune. Oh the Apostles They said do not do that worship only God when John tried to proskune. Oh the angel in the Book of Revelation. Likewise, he said do not do that worship only God and so You just refuted yourself because you demonstrated that you said That this only goes to God and of course my point was that if it's in a non religious context proskune. Oh could mean that.

You just demonstrated you're talking about a religious context. I don't think anyone listening audience could possibly believe that what they observe with Roman Catholics bowing before Mary praying to Mary Seeking Mary's intercession is in a non Religious context it most clearly is a religious context and therefore it is Worship and therefore you have yet to answer my first question Which was can you demonstrate to us that the Latria Julia distinction upon which you base your defense of?

Rome's hyper veneration of Mary does not violate the biblical command against giving worship to God.

Okay, James. Uh, you don't agree with the way you completely twisted my words saying that I refuted myself. I really don't think I refuted myself because honor and respect that's pretty much all that is given to Mary.

We don't think Mary was the cod God now similar to the honor and respect that uh, the centurion is given. I don't think it's any different than the honor and respect we give to Mary and I did not say that we give Mary.

Any form of worship whatsoever you you're saying that it pretty much amounts to worship. What I believe is that it pretty much amounts to worship of God. Has any honor or any service to give to any creature of God.

Yes, it's directly given to God. But um, okay. Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. You just could I. Don't think anyone can understand what you're saying because on one end you say you try to say Oh, it's just like a centaur just like a soldier in front of a centurion.

I don't know if any soldiers ever asked the centurion to save his eternal soul and to give a grace. But I never once said that it's the exact same thing. I didn't say that. Okay, so it's so it's not the same thing.

Okay, I parallel the fact that they're both human beings. Therefore. We're not giving either one of them Latria at all. That's pretty much what the reason that you said himself I never once said and it's the exact same thing where that Mary's the exact same thing as a centurion.

Okay, so the veneration that you give to Mary's actually going to God. So why isn't that worship? You still haven't. Where is this? Where is this distinction?

I'm telling you that any veneration or any honor given to any creature of God is ultimately honored towards God and goes towards God. That's what I'm saying. And I will get to your your Lotria Julie distinction, but uh, I wanted to ask you um.

You do you are well I want to ask you this. Does the church claim that the Julia that is given to Mary is exactly the same as the.

Latria you think that they claim that at all in any document. Actually someone actually made that exact errant question in the audience questions in the Madrid debate and I Demonstrated at that time I did hear the same the same error.

The argument has the argument has been clearly stated that it is the distinction between Latria and Julia that is unbiblical. The Hebrew term is Avad. If you could demonstrate to us that avad does not mean Worship and service both Lotria and Julia, then you'll establish your case if you cannot.

Then you have to in essence reject the biblical usage and establish an extra canonical usage to defend your position.

Are you pretty much saying that you believe that every single time that Julia is used it's in the form of worship like every.

Of course not of course not no one no one could possibly could no one possibly. I'm gonna finish. I'm gonna excuse me. I'm gonna I let you finish your point and I'm gonna finish I'm gonna finish my point.

Because you're you're trying to you know. No one could possibly think that because Julia is used in Religious worship of God that that means every time it's used in that same way just as Proskune oh as I mentioned earlier can be used in a secular Non-religious context in the same way that it can be used in a religious context.

But do you oh is used of worship when the Apostle Paul? Speaks to the Galatians and says that they serve those which are by nature not gods. No one can possibly argue that that was not in fact religious worship.

I would agree a hundred percent that James. You know you've cut me off before. To start on understand why you're being upset. Because I was attempting to cut you off. You cut Me off a little while ago, and I was William.

William.

Just just just move along to you just you're you're complaining about things that really aren't relevant to the conversation.

Yeah, they're not relevant all right James. Uh so you just admitted that Julia is not always used in the sense of worship, right?

I've never say stated. Otherwise. That's that's not an admission. That's a simple fact. The point of saying that there's no biblical distinction between luxury and Julia again. The fact that in the Bible if you allow God's divine revelation to define your categories for you in the religious context both worship and service come from one root concept the idea of Distinguishing them so that you can in a religious context bow down in front of a person pray to a person light candles to a person, but that's not.

Worship is not a biblical concept you cannot find anywhere in the Bible. Where? Christians engage in that kind of behavior, and it's called outside of a religious context anything other than Worship. Can you.

Where did you. Can you name?

I mean, I'm just curious you're um you're a lot better in the Greek than I am in fact. You'd probably humiliate me. Can you name just one Greek lexicon that tells us that there's no distinction between luxury Julia?

What an amazing question. Give me one Greek lexicon that says what you're affirming. You're the one making the claim here that Latria and Julia are going to be distinguished in these ways. You show me.

You're the one that said that you're the one that refuted my video by saying that there was there was no biblical distinction.

But you lot you do that's right. And the first question and the one Greek lexicon that tells us and the first Question I asked you when you called in was to substantiate the distinction, and you said you'd get to it later now.

You want to assume it I? Say to you that Bauer Donker aren't in Gingrich does not tell us that those particular two terms are not used in the Old Testament context translating the one Hebrew term of odd, so It's it's irrelevant.

They're not concerned about such things. Both will define the semantic range of those particular terms and They will recognize that Latroux is normally used within the cultic practice of the temple. Do you all can be used in both that and a secular usage?

But they will also recognize that do you always used of worship just like Latroux is. So again, we come back to the basic fundamental question that has yet to be answered and that is you in your videos.

I Go ahead. Please. I asked the question to you first. You and your videos in a very Condescending tone said well this this this scholarship is ridiculous and for you disagreeing with you means your scholarship is bad.

But that's and that's that you've done for from the first time.

I saw when your first videos, but I told you why. I said that though. I wasn't referring to you yourself. I told you why I thought that it was ridiculous.

Actually, I just played you saying that something about Ignatius remember. And then we play then we play with what what you say about it. I guess all you're doing is engaging in mockery and calling that scholarship.

That's not scholarship, but the point here is very simple. Okay, the point very very simply is this. You've been asked a question that turrets and turrets and turrets and fans article okay is based upon the Understanding that what you have going on when you bow before Mary when you worship Mary when you give when you when you do All these things that's worship.

We do not believe that there is a biblical distinction worship, so.

Demonstrate that you know. How do you agree. You admitted that the words are not equal. Are you. Are you saying that there. You said at first that there was no biblical distinction? But all of a sudden asking you admit that Julia is not always used in a sense of worship.

Okay.

Actually right now. I can just stop and sit back and allow the listeners. I can allow the listeners to judge this for themselves because it's just so obvious that. Cannot hear what is being said to him all right?

Let me let me backtrack. You said that there is no biblical distinction. Which you'd like to the end Julia, and I believe that the facts of matter is that there are two distinct words used differently at times.

I Agreed with you that Julia is and should always be rendered to God. But it's also shown as being rendered elsewhere in references that they're not directed towards God. Latvia has never shown us proper towards anyone other than God.

That is clear. That was my point. And I said Julia was different. Of course it should be rendered to God in service. And we're to obey and serve God that is my whole point. Are we to obey and serve Mary?

In what sense do you mean the sense of God?

Sissy. Now we're now we're now you're dead you're you're demonstrating that our usage has been correct all along.

Specifically in the religious context in the way you just said it it really doesn't make sense. Are we to obey and serve Mary?

We don't communicate with Mary. It's you don't communicate with Mary. Are you gonna allow me to finish my sentence? They're gonna speak over this is this is called talking back and forth you know when you throw something out and says we do not.

Communicate with Mary. Was done my sentence wasn't done. Okay William.

When you throw out, I've got you on hold right now. I'll put you back on when you can behave, okay. This is real simple if we've had you on for quite some time now. You just threw out to the audience the statement.

We don't communicate with Mary. Now I can't tell you how many Hundreds of times I have listened to Roman Catholics Talking about their communication with Mary. That's what their prayers are their ability to communicate to her etc. Etc.

Okay, so this is if we could do this as a conversation This would help a lot. But you want to throw stuff out and then run from it. And then I have to try to go back and pick up all these threads, and it doesn't work so follow The rules here, and you'll be able to get lots more time.

But if you throw something out And I challenge it don't just immediately start complaining when you've got a webcast that people listen to fine I'll follow your rules, but right now you're on mine. All right.

That's the way it goes now. If you'd like to pick up with where you were please do so. Am I on you are okay James?

I wasn't trying to be rude in any sense at all. I have yelled. I haven't lasted your comments or been rude in any way. I don't think if I get out of line before you meet me. Can you at least tell me to calm down or something?

I was trying to finish my sentence.

I really wasn't done before you stopped me and started if you would stop. Arguing about whether you're being treated fairly and just make your case you'd be doing a lot better.

You're right unless I get muted again. My point was that we don't communicate with Mary. It'd be well. So that's I was trying to say in the sense of we sit down and we speak to Mary. That is why I said it seems a little bit odd to say do we obey Mary?