March 19, 2020 Show with Dr. Joe Morecraft on “With Liberty & Justice for All: Christian Politics Made Simple”

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And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 19th day of March 2020.

And I am so delighted after many years, I think it's probably been at least a decade,

I will check momentarily when the last time we had Dr. Joe Moorcraft on the program, but it was definitely when we were still broadcasting out of Long Island, New York on WGBB and WNYG radio in Babylon, Long Island.

But Dr. Joe Moorcraft is my guest today, and I am thrilled to have him on.

He's pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, which is a part of the

Hanover Presbytery. And today we are going to be addressing his book, With Liberty and Justice for All, Christian Politics Made Simple.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back after a very long absence, Dr. Joe Moorcraft.

Well, it's a privilege of being on your program, Chris. Well, the pleasure is all mine, brother.

And why don't you tell our listeners something a bit more about Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.

It's a sad commentary in this day and age when many people unfortunately hear the name

Presbyterian in a church. They immediately think of a mainline, dead, left -wing church that is feminist, that is pro -abortion, pro -homosexual marriage, etc.

So why don't you dispel any anxiety that our listeners may have about Heritage Presbyterian Church.

Well, we're a member of a very small micro -denomination called the Reformed Presbyterian Church, Hanover Presbytery.

And it is thoroughly Biblical, Christ -centered. We believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. We have the

Orthodox, Biblical, Protestant, Reformed views of all these ethical issues that are confusing so many today.

And our church is a three -year -old church. We planted it about three years ago.

And God has really used it and blessed us. We wish we grew more rapidly, but most churches do.

But they're faithful people. They're good people. They love the Reformed faith. And I think a lot of them are going to be listening today.

I'm very happy to hear that. And obviously there are many people who are unfamiliar with the fundamentalist, modernist controversy.

And so our listeners should know that there have been Biblically faithful Presbyterians all along.

And when the predominant number of Presbyterian denominations became very liberal in the early 20th century, those that were faithful broke away, some voluntarily, some involuntarily.

I believe J. Gresham Mason was excommunicated, if I'm not mistaken, from the liberal mainline

Presbyterian church to which he once belonged. I think it was over the Pearl Buck controversy.

He refused to support her as a missionary, if I'm not mistaken. That's right. And so people should be educated that there have always been truly faithful and Biblical and Christ -honoring and regenerate

Presbyterians throughout history. Yes, there have been. And today there are a variety of small denominations that have, like you say, left the larger denominations that have become apostate and that are standing very firmly for the historic

Christian faith. Well, I want to immediately give our email address if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Joe Moorcraft on the theme,

With Liberty and Justice for All, Christian Politics Made Simple, which is actually a title of one of his books.

And the email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

And as always, please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you disagree with your pastor over something we are discussing and you'd rather not identify yourself.

Perhaps you're a pastor yourself and you disagree with your own elder board, your congregation or denomination, or something that we're going to be addressing.

Or whatever the case may be, perhaps you just don't want to start a war with your own spouse in your own home over a difference you have with your spouse.

Well, we understand that those would be reasons to remain anonymous. But if it's not a personal and private question, if it's a general question on Christianity and politics, then please at least give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Before I move on to the main theme today, Christian Politics Made Simple, I understand that you have written a monumental commentary on the

Westminster Confession of Faith. If you could address that. I wrote an 8 -volume, about 4 ,500 -page commentary on the

Westminster Larger Catechism, which was written in the 1640s and deals with almost every issue of biblical doctrine and ethics that you could imagine with a question -and -answer format to it.

And this series of my books has gone through a second edition.

The first edition had 5 volumes. This edition has 6 volumes. And it can be found at westminstercommentary .com

westminstercommentary .com And I hope that as many of you as possible will take advantage of that.

And obviously, one of the greatest historic catechisms of the

Christian faith, and even we who are Reformed Baptists very often use the

Westminster Catechism, larger and shorter, and sometimes they have been published in Baptist versions with the only difference on these catechisms being the issue of baptism, since Reformed Baptists obviously are credo

Baptists who believe in the baptism of believers alone. But Reformed Baptists have always held in extremely high esteem our

Presbyterian brothers, and that is why the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith is nearly identical, purposely, to the

Westminster Confession, because of the fact that they wanted to show camaraderie with their

Presbyterian brethrens in the 17th century when that confession was drafted, and they wanted to put people at ease, their brothers in Christ at ease, that they were not a cult of some kind, that they were standing for most of the same vital biblical teachings that the

Presbyterians and larger Reformed body of Christians adhere to, including the

Congregationalists as well, because they also borrowed from the Savoy Declaration. But I am honored to, at some point in the very near future, have you back on,

Dr. Moorcraft, to discuss your commentaries on the Catechism and the

Catechism itself. I would love to. In fact, I tell people that the basic difference between the 1689

Second London Baptist Confession and the Westminster Confession is that the

London Baptist Confession is a little wetter. Yes, it is, and so are we who are

Reformed Baptists. Although Presbyterians do, on occasion, get dunked as adults, if they've never been baptized as infants.

I know some that have been dunked by Presbyterian pastors. Yes, so do

I. But anyway, folks, if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address again is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com.

Well, this book has stood the test of time.

It is an excellent book, has been for decades. Why don't you tell us about the initial catalyst, why you wrote

With Liberty and Justice for All, Christian Politics Made Simple. I first wrote it back, I think, in the late 80s as a result of some sermons that I preached.

And a man who had his own publishing company was at those sermons. And so he himself published this book.

It's very readable. It's very short. And I tried to make the biblical principles to help us understand the political issues in front of us as clearly and plainly as I possibly could.

I don't know how many printings it's gone through. It's gone through many printings. And it is actually, it is sold in Brazil.

It was translated into Portuguese. And God has used that book and continues to use it to this very day.

It is basically an exposition, an application of Romans 13, the first eight or nine verses of Romans 13.

And because I want Christians to understand that it's not just... We read on Facebook and various other places that preachers tell their people to go out and vote.

If Christians don't vote, we're going to lose our country. Well, it all depends on how they're going to vote. Christians have to have a biblical worldview, a biblical view of politics.

They can no longer trust the political traditions and parties and their attitudes, but they are to ask themselves when they face a political candidate, a political policy, a political issue, that they have to take a stand on.

What does the Bible say? And I was preaching the other day about somebody asked me, what are preachers supposed to preach on?

And I said, they're supposed to preach on everything. The Bible says that it's divinely authoritative in everything about which it speaks.

And it speaks about everything. Back in the middle 80s, I ran for the U .S. Congress and fortunately lost.

And somebody asked me, they said, why are you getting into politics as a Christian?

And I answered them with one verse, Revelation 1, 5, where Jesus is said to be the ruler of the kings of the earth.

Now, if that's not a political statement, I don't know what politics are. But all the various kings and political authorities on earth are accountable to the

King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ, and they are either to submit to him or perish under his wrath.

And can you tell us about the origin of civil government? Civil government is not a negative thing.

A lot of the libertarians on the right think of the civil government as something that's negative and something that we have to put up with and something that's not basically friendly.

But it's God that instituted civil government. Civil government is a gift of God to us to help maintain order in a sinful society.

You see it all the way back to Noah. After the flood, God reaffirms his covenant with Noah and establishes, at least embryonically, some of the basic institutions of human society, one of which is civil government.

He said that if a man kills another man, a human being kills another human being, God interprets that as an assault upon him since man is made in his image, and therefore it is a capital crime that the only just way to punish murder is after a trial where someone is found guilty of murder to be executed by the state.

And it's amazing how much of the Bible deals with politics. Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy are full of verses governing politics.

You have Proverbs, which is a book written by a king to prepare his son to be king.

You have the prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc., addressing the civil magistrates, not only of Israel, but of Babylon and various other nations in the earth, calling them to repent of their lawlessness.

Then you have Jesus saying that Pontius Pilate was accountable to his lordship, one of the most misunderstood verses of the

Bible, is where Jesus said to Pilate, Pilate was a shrewd old politician.

He was not a theologian. The only thing that concerned him was not what the Pharisees were concerned with.

They were concerned with whether or not Jesus was blaspheming by calling himself God. All Pilate wanted to know was, is

Jesus a political threat to him? Are you a king that I should be afraid of?

And Jesus says in Greek, in the Greek New Testament and in English, it says, it is as you say, but my kingdom is not of this world, it's of another place.

Now, people have assumed by that that he's describing the nature of his kingdom, saying that his kingdom is not concerned with politics and things like that here on earth.

That's not what the Greek says. What the Greek says when he says, Pilate, you want to know if I'm a king?

It is as you say, and my kingdom is not from this world, it's from another place.

So he wasn't talking about the nature of his kingdom, he was talking about the origin of his kingdom.

My rule, my authority, my kingdom originates not with man, but it originates in heaven with God himself.

And then you have Paul in Romans 13, you have so many references to political institutions and revelation.

So throughout the scriptures, you have this concern, not only with an individual's personal salvation, which is the focal point, but you also have the concern for political institutions, because they've always played such an important role in the history of mankind, particularly when they become tyrannical.

Now you said something critical about libertarians, perhaps not all, but it is interesting that unless my memory is incorrectly serving me,

I recall in a conversation with you, perhaps it was 2008, where you were supportive of the presidential candidacy of Ron Paul, who before becoming a

Republican presidential candidate, he actually ran in 1988 for the

Libertarian Party, which obviously his connection with the Libertarian Party is far different from the

Libertarian Party today, which is amazingly not libertarian in many ways, in fact in favor of gun control and all kinds of things, and abortion, unfortunately.

But can you tell us about that? You seem to at least have some affection for libertarians.

I happen to have some leanings in that area, but I am not in any stretch of the imagination a cookie -cutter libertarian.

I believe in strong border control and things like that. But if you could comment on that.

Well, you've got a good memory, and you're right, many years ago I was for Ron Paul, basically because it was the first time in history that the

Libertarian Party had a pro -life platform, because Ron Paul would not run as their candidate unless they put something against abortion in their platform.

So there are two basic spectrums of politics in this country.

There's statism, or socialism, and it teaches that the state is sovereign, that whatever the state has the power to do, it may do.

The sovereignty of the state, and that's collectivism, pure and simple. That's the basic basis of communism, that the group is more important than the individual, and you can sacrifice millions of individuals for the sake of the group.

On the other extreme is a non -Christian libertarianism that believes in the sovereignty of the individual, and that nothing, that individual rights may not be compromised or negotiated, individual responsibility, individual sovereignty may never be compromised.

Hence, the non -Christian libertarianism is pro -abortion, usually.

The non -Christian libertarian is pro -homosexual marriage as well as homosexual lifestyle.

Well, you and I, as Christians, don't believe in the sovereignty of the state or the sovereignty of the individual.

We don't believe that the individual is superior to the group, nor the group to the state, but they're of equal value and equal ultimacy, just like the threeness and the oneness of God, which is more important.

God is one or God is three. Neither is more important. They're both equally important. God is one and God is three, and you see the oneness and the threeness of God of equal ultimacy, and you see that reflected in the way individuals and groups of individuals should relate to each other.

There are several Christians. In fact, I think Breshtian even called himself a

Christian libertarian. I don't use that phrase, but a Christian libertarian is an inconsistent libertarian.

What he's saying is that he believes in the constitutional limitations of the state, that the state's responsibility is to punish evil for the protection of good, and it has no authority and no competence in the area of health, education, and welfare.

So in that sense, you have Christians that call themselves libertarians. They believe that the individual is accountable to God, not just to himself, and hence

Christian libertarians are pro -life, anti -homosexuality, anti -socialism, but they are not radical revolutionaries who think that the only way to protect the individual is to create social disorder so as to change government.

That attitude, by the way, was invented not by a libertarian, but by Karl Marx himself.

And you can't come up with a more anti -libertarian individual than Karl Marx.

That's true, yes, sir. Now, I don't want to sidetrack our discussion and over -dwell in the area of libertarianism, but I was just curious how you would respond to a friend of mine who is now with Christ for eternity.

He was a Christian libertarian and well -known amongst many libertarians, especially

Christians. His name was William Norman Grigg. I don't know if that name sounds familiar to you. He was a

Mormon at one time and came to faith in Jesus Christ. He was the editor of the

New American magazine, which is the magazine of the John Birch Society. Yes, sir. He, when

I asked him about his view on same -sex marriage, said, well, as a

Christian, I am obviously opposed to homosexuality. It is an abomination.

It is unnatural. It's damnable. But he said, my thrust in this argument is that the government does not belong meddling in anyone's marriage.

So how do you respond to that kind of a comment? I would say that's terrible. I know a lot of friends, conservatives, that have that view.

And it is called a two -kingdom view. That is a view that you see among alleged conservatives today, even in the

Reform world, that says there's two kingdoms, the church and the state. The church is a kingdom that is to be governed by God's word, and the state is a kingdom to be governed by human reason, not by biblical law.

Well, that's why the church in Germany, by and large, during World War II, was so silent and allowed

Hitler to get away with what he got away with, is because it was eaten up by those people who believed that there's two kingdoms, and the church is not to dictate to the state that the state is not to live by the

Bible. It's not to base its laws upon God's law. It's to base its law upon human reason, and the church is the one that's accountable to the word of God.

So we have that attitude today that is also a view of Roman Catholicism, and it's a view of many

Christians, and it's going to kill us, that if we relegate the word of God just to one facet of life, and we turn the rest of life over to human reason and to man to govern as he sees fit, there is no way to combat tyranny, the disappearance of liberty and justice for all, and the increased apostasy in the world.

There's no way to protect a family. There's no way to protect a society unless we believe the gospel and the law of God and recognize that all civil laws must be based upon the law of God himself.

He is the great lawgiver. He is the source of law.

He's the only one who can distinguish good from evil infallibly. He's the only one who can infallibly define what a crime is, and he's the only one that can define how crime is to be punished justly.

I mean, that view is as old as the hills. There's nothing new about it.

My favorite patriotic song is My Country Tis of Thee, and particularly the last stanza, where God is not only called the author of liberty, but he's said to be the great

God, our king. So a nation cannot maintain liberty for long.

Great example, the United States. A nation cannot maintain liberty for long if it does not bow in submission to the word of its king.

Now, that is not conservatism. That is not liberalism.

That's Christianity. Orthodox, historical Christianity, something that all

Christians should believe. In fact, in my little book, With Liberty and Justice for All, I began the discussion of politics with Romans 12, 1 and 2.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present yourselves, your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and acceptable unto

Him which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

And then it's after that, and of course whenever you study a passage of Scripture, you must see it in its context.

After that, it talks about how we are to submit ourselves to Christ in relationship to each other in the church.

And in the next section, it talks about how we are to relate to each other in the world. And then in the next paragraph, the last paragraph of Romans 12, it says how we are to represent

Christ and be His servants with reference to our enemies. And then

Romans 13 says that you must also represent

Christ in the whole political realm and make sure your views and your attitudes toward the civil magistrate are those that please

God, Christ, and are in submission to Him. Because we as Christians cannot be neutral about anything.

We cannot be totally objective about anything. We are all religious beings.

Everybody has a set of religious commitments that he's dedicated to, whether he's aware of it or not, whether he's actually analyzed that or not, whether he's a

Christian or not. Everybody makes basic assumptions about life that guide and direct and inform all of their decisions in this life.

And the same thing with politics. You have people who say, well, in politics, we must be religiously neutral, that we may not bring religion into the political sphere.

The problem with that is that every law that's ever passed by Congress or the state legislature represents somebody's religious commitment concerning good and bad.

A politician introduces a law because he thinks it's good. Somebody votes against it because he thinks he's bad.

So the issue today is not whether we're going to mix religion with politics, but the issue, clearer than it's ever been, is which religion are we going to mix with politics?

That's right, because even atheists are religious. Yeah. Christianity, Sharia law,

Islamic law, humanism. I mean, those are the issues. We even have

Muslims that are running for the United States Congress right now that will not say they will obey and enforce the

Constitution of the United States. Wow. We have to go to our first break, but before we do,

I will read a question from a listener, and I'll have you answer it when we come back from the break. Yes, sir.

Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York says, Do you think that Abraham Kuyper was a good example of someone who balanced theology and politics well, given that he was the prime minister of the

Netherlands from 1901 to 1905? We'll have you answer that when we come back from the break.

If anybody else would like to join us, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com

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Joe Moorcraft and Christian Politics Made Simple. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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We are now back with our guest today, Joe Moorcraft, Dr. Joe Moorcraft who is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, the author of a number of books including a monumental six -volume commentary on the

Westminster Larger Catechism. We are discussing his book With Liberty and Justice for All, Christian Politics Made Simple.

Before the break, Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York asked the question, Do you think that Abraham Kuyper was a good example of someone who balanced theology and politics well given that he was the

Prime Minister of the Netherlands from 1901 to 1905? Abraham Kuyper is one of my all -time heroes.

He started out as a liberal minister and then was converted to Christ and then realized that everything about Holland had to change.

He was Dutch. And so he started a new denomination that was fairly biblical.

He started a school system and a university that were based upon the Word of God. He started a daily newspaper that was read all over Holland.

He started a political party called the Anti -Revolutionary Party, meaning against the

French Revolution, that was based upon Protestant principles of worldview.

And then in the 20th century, he got himself elected Prime Minister. One of my favorite sayings by Abraham Kuyper, which

I can't quote literally, but I'll paraphrase. He said, There's not one square inch in this planet or in this universe about which

Jesus cannot say, This is mine. There was nothing neutral about him.

He understood that a Christian was to stand for Christ in every area of life. And so he was a man who understood the importance of being

Christian in politics. And that is the purpose of my little book.

There was a balance. Nobody's perfect, of course. And we can't agree completely with anybody.

The only book we agree with everything in is the Bible, of course. I tell people, I don't even agree with some of the sermons

I preached years ago. But Abraham Kuyper wrote a book.

Actually, there were lectures at Princeton Seminary in 1900. That's one of the classics that everybody ought to read, regardless of the denominational preference.

They should read his book that's still being printed today called Lectures in Calvinism.

It's not what you think. It's not a book on the five points of Calvinism. It is a book showing how that the world view of the

Protestant Reformation was to inform and govern every area of life.

Politics, art, family, every other aspect of life.

So I'm glad that Tyler asked me about Abraham Kuyper so I could brag on him a little.

Praise God. And from my recollection, not only was Abraham Kuyper once liberal, he was also a lost man as a pastor.

And an elderly woman, if I'm not mistaken, in his congregation was used powerfully by God to lead him to Christ for the first time when he was already a pastor.

That is true. Well, thanks a lot, Tyler. And guess what? Thanks to the generosity of ComprehensiveChristianity .com

you will receive a free copy of the book we are discussing today with Liberty and Justice for All Christian Politics Made Simple by our guest

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. So please make sure you give us your full mailing address so that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVBBS .com

can ship that out to you at no charge to you or to Onyx Repens Iron Radio. Thanks for the excellent question.

We also have a question from Grady in Ashboro, North Carolina.

A very loyal and faithful listener to this program going all the way back to its beginnings in 2005 and also a very loyal financial supporter.

Grady in Ashboro, North Carolina says, Hi Brothers Chris and Joe. As a child of the

King Jesus Christ, I realize that we must trust Him and His sovereignty. But as a citizen of the

United States, I believe it's our civic duty to vote. However, when evangelizing,

I try to avoid the subject of politics because I want the person to see that they're a sinner and in need of Christ for their redemption.

Recently, I encountered a man and he wanted to keep bringing up our president and politics.

How would you have handled that situation to get him back to the gospel? Excellent question,

Grady. That is a bunch of excellent questions and comments. The first thing

I would say very quickly about voting is most Christians when they enter a voting booth leave the

Bible on the outside. And that's one of the reasons we are where we are today. They quit using

God's Word as a standard to measure men running for political office.

And I also would agree with him entirely that in our efforts to recapture the hearts and minds of Americans, in our efforts to win this culture war we're fighting right now and reclaim

America, the spearhead of all of our efforts, the most important thing we do is evangelism.

Is seeking to win men and women to the Lord Jesus Christ by the grace of God.

And so if I was in a witnessing situation I wouldn't say much at all, if anything, about politics because that would not be my concern.

I would focus on this man's basic sinful nature and his need for Christ and what

Christ did to save us from our sins and what we must do to be saved.

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. And then I would emphasize that in Acts 16 .31

it says believe in the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved.

That the Jesus whom you trust in alone as your Savior is at one and the same time the

Lord. And so when we trust in Christ in that same act of faith we submit ourselves to His Lordship over us and that Lordship is universal.

So I would talk not only about the Saviorhood of Christ but I would talk about the

Lordship of Christ because we not only receive Him as our Savior we receive

Him as our Lord and what Romans 9 says is if thou shalt confess with thy mouth that Jesus is

Lord and believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead you shall be saved.

So submitting to His Lordship is not an optional thing. It's not something we do later in the

Christian life. That we cannot enjoy the benefits of Christ's cross without bowing before the claims of Christ's crown.

Praise God and thank you so much Grady for your excellent question as always and please make sure we have your full mailing address so that CVBBS .com

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship a free copy of With Liberty and Justice for All Christian Politics made simple by Dr.

Joe Moorcraft out to you. And we want to thank ComprehensiveChristianity .com

once again for their generosity in providing us with these books today.

I'm going to have you think about something before we go to our midway break.

Grady said something that it is our duty to vote. I know personally

Christians very biblically sound Christians in fact one of which is a mutual friend of both of ours who believe that a

Christian should not be shamed if he is faced with voting whether it be for president or a local political official if he is forced with the option of voting for two people that in his mind are equally evil.

I can even remember back in the 90's 1994 to be precise

George Pataki ran for governor of the state of New York when

I was still living in New York. He ran against Mario Cuomo and both of these men were equally salivating with joy over the murder of unborn children.

So is a Christian obligated to vote for either of these candidates?

You want me to answer my opinion right now? Oh, that's right. We're going to a break. We have to go to our midway break right now.

Thank you for reminding me, Joe. This is our longer than normal break, folks. Keep that in mind and please be patient with us.

The reason why it is a longer than normal break is because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida 90 .1

FM they air Iron Sharpens Iron Radio twice daily in a pre -recorded format and because of FCC regulations they have to localize their programming to Lake City, Florida and therefore they use our midway break to air their own public service announcements and other things related to Lake City, Florida.

So while they air those messages we air our own globally heard commercials and we ask of you to use this time wisely not only write down the information of as many of our advertisers as you can because as I was saying earlier when

I was mentioning Solid Ground Christian Books we depend on our advertisers to exist.

We will not remain on the air without our advertisers and our individuals and our audience who are donors financially to this program.

So please keep that in mind and write down as much of the information as you possibly can for our advertisers even just to contact them to thank them for advertising on Iron Sharpens Iron but especially to patronize them whenever possible that will help further ensure that we remain on the air.

So do that and also write down questions for Dr. Joe Moorcraft on Christian Politics Made Simple our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com and as always give us your first name at least, your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Don't go away we'll be right back after these messages with more of Dr. Joe Moorcraft and Christian Politics Made Simple.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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Before we return to our guest today, Dr. Joe Moorcraft of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and author of a number of books, including the one we are discussing today, with Liberty and Justice for All, Christian Politics Made Simple, I just have a couple of announcements to make.

If you are a man in ministry leadership, whether you're a pastor, an elder, and by the way,

I think that's the same office. I think the Bible teaches it's the same office. If you're a deacon, if you are a leader in a parachurch organization, you just need to be a man in ministry leadership.

You are invited to a free Iron Sharpens Iron radio pastor's luncheon,

God willing, barring any unforeseen further bans on gatherings because of the coronavirus scare.

On Friday, May 29th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m., I am having my next spring edition of the

Iron Sharpens Iron radio pastor's luncheon. It's free of charge, and it's being held for the very first time at the

Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. And another first time connected with this luncheon is that we are so thrilled to have for the very first time ever as our guest speaker,

Dr. Conrad Mbewe, pastor of Kabwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa.

He's also the former chancellor and currently a lecturer at African Christian University in Zambia.

He is one of the most powerful preachers on the planet Earth, and I'm not exaggerating in the slightest bit.

I am not flattering Dr. Mbewe. He is truly an amazingly powerful preacher and solidly reformed in his soteriology.

In fact, his church, Kabwata Baptist Church, is a confessionally reformed Baptist church adhering to the 1689

Confession, and he is just mind -boggling how powerful a preacher he is.

So I hope that if you are a man in ministry and leadership, you will mark down on your calendar Friday, May 29, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m., for the Iron Trip and Zion Radio Spring Pastors Luncheon at the

Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Do whatever you can do to get here. Take a plane, train, automobile, canoe, parachute, however you can get here.

We would love to see you here. And just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com, and put

Pastors Luncheon in the subject line. I will register you for free immediately. Not only are you getting to hear

Dr. Mbewe preach for free, and not only are you going to be fed an absolutely sumptuous meal by the

Bongiorno Conference Center for free, but everyone in attendance is going to be leaving with a heavy sack of free, brand -new books, selected by me personally, and donated by major Christian publishers all over the

United States and the United Kingdom. Every year, publishers have been donating books to this luncheon, going back to the 1990s, when my precious late wife,

Julie, who is now in eternity with Christ, when my precious late wife, Julie, came up with the concept of these

Pastors Luncheons. And we've been having them every year since she came up with this idea, and the crowds have grown over the years.

And I just thank God that my wife had the insight and the love for pastors to want to start this luncheon.

And after she went home to glory, and after I relocated to Pennsylvania, I have relaunched these luncheons in her honor and memory and in tribute to her.

So I hope you can come to the next one, Friday, May 29th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, featuring

Dr. Conrad M. Bayway. Also, folks, as you heard me earlier begging you for money,

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is, in no exaggeration here, in the worst financial situation that we have been in in years, or ever,

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I would love to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible. Also, folks, if you are not a member of a local

Bible -believing church and you're not even prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against God.

Don't fool yourself. There are no maverick, lone -wolf Christians in the

New Testament. You have to be submissive to a local body of elders in a local

Bible -believing church in order to be a biblically faithful Christian. So, please, folks, if you are having a hard time finding a biblically faithful church near you anywhere in the world,

I may be able to help you, because I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet, and I have helped, every week, people find churches near them all over the world.

And sometimes I have helped people find churches where they're going on vacation. I have helped people find churches for their own family, friends, and loved ones who do not have a church home.

So, please, if you are in that situation or any of those situations, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question for Dr.

Joe Moorcraft, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and author of a number of books, including a six -volume commentary on the

Westminster Larger Catechism, and also the book we are discussing today, With Liberty and Justice for All, Christian Politics Made Simple, which is now being published by comprehensivechristianity .com.

So, if you would like to ask a question of Dr. Moorcraft on this very important subject,

Christian Politics Made Simple, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com

And before the break, as you may recall, Dr. Moorcraft, I asked you a question that was placed in my mind by something that Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, had said in his own question.

He said, I believe, that it is a duty of a Christian to vote. Now, obviously, I would never condone a

Christian out of laziness or indifference or apathy just staying at home, not voting, not caring.

But, I have met and known very noble, God -honoring, conservative, theologically -reformed

Christians when they are faced with two candidates who are both an abomination.

They have declined to vote. Now, how do you respond to that? The Bible gives standards for people who are in places of civil authority.

And I said before your break that one of the biggest reasons that we are where we are today is because when

Christians enter the voting booth, they leave the Bible on the outside of the voting booth, and they vote usually out of fear.

If I don't vote for this person, this other person is going to get elected. And when you do things out of fear, you're going to make mistakes.

So, the way I vote, and the way I recommend that Christians vote, is that they go through the scripture, they see what

God requires of a civil magistrate, they compare everybody running for office, and they vote for whomever is the closest to that standard.

Now, there are certain limits beyond which I will not go. If a candidate believes in murdering unborn babies, whether it's a lot of unborn babies or a few unborn babies,

I will not vote for him. If a candidate wants to turn

America into a Sodom and Gomorrah and decriminalize homosexuality,

I will not vote for him. There's third parties, there's the

Constitution Party, there are other parties, but if I have no other choice, or you can write in candidates, but just like those, many of those water boys for the

Democrat Party, that all they have to do is promise them more money, and they'll line up, and they'll vote for their candidate.

And the water boys for the Republican Party are those that line up whenever the Republican Party says, pro -life, pro -life, pro -life, whether they mean it or not.

I'm not any political party's water boy. I'm a water boy for Christ.

And so my point is, it's not neglect, I don't want to throw away my vote.

Voting is too important to me, so I'm not going to throw it away by voting for an anti -Christian or pro -abortionists.

And you know, the argument that people give today is that, well, we've got to vote for the lesser of the two evils.

That phrase originated in the Weimar Republic.

The lesser of the two evils. The Weimar Republic was established by the peace treaty at the end of World War I, bringing

Germany to its knees. And these powerful businessmen and industrialists were very, very dissatisfied with the situation because they could not make the profits they wanted to make because the profits were going to allied countries.

So a young politician in the early 30s comes to these powerful industrialists and capitalists, none of them were socialists, and said to them,

I know you don't like all of my politics, but I will dismantle the Weimar Republic and enable the economy,

German economy, to grow. So these powerful industrialists and capitalists said, well, he's the lesser of the two evils.

So they voted for Adolf Hitler. So the lesser of the two evils is not necessarily liberal.

It could be somebody running as a conservative. If you have an outright socialist who says he's a socialist, that's an evil.

If you have a socialist who's running as a conservative, that could be even the worse of the two evils because he's not only bringing in socialism, he's destroying the reputation of conservatism.

So I'm not going to vote for evil. No man's perfect.

Nobody is going to meet the biblical standard for civil magistrates perfectly.

I want to vote for the closest to that standard that I can get.

I have voted for Republicans before. I have voted for third party candidates before.

I have written in names before. I think

I voted for Howard Phillips more times than he ran for president. Yes, he was.

And he was a great man. So I think Christians must be...

It's not just enough to go vote. It is...

We must be Christian in the voting booth and use

God's word as our standard. The Bible also gives standards for voters, standards for civil magistrates.

So it is our all -sufficient guide in understanding every area of life.

And insofar as we walk away from Scripture or neglect Scripture or hide from it, to that degree, we're acting like a humanist.

Now, I'm sure with certainty that you have heard the response to some of what you said by our fellow conservatives and perhaps even

Christian conservatives who will say, your refusal to vote for the lesser of two evils is ensuring the victory of the one who is more evil because your vote isn't going to that person's opponent.

So how do you respond to that? Yes, I've heard it many, many times. That is having as your motive for the way you vote, fear.

And whenever you allow fear to be your dominant motive, I'm afraid if I don't vote this guy,

I don't like this guy, if I don't vote for this guy, this guy is going to be elected. So the motive is fear.

And the anti -Christians and humanists know how to use fear to manipulate a populace.

For example, the coronavirus hysteria. Now, coronavirus is a very serious thing.

I take it seriously. But what's going to be worse on America than the coronavirus is the hysteria that's creating panic in people, deliberately,

I believe, by the Democrats. And I'd make no hesitation to say that.

That to bring down our economy and to bring down Trump. And if you can go back through presidential candidates' elections over the past several decades, and you'll find that during elections, there's usually been some epidemic scaring

America. Swine flu, SARS, all these various other things.

It's interesting how these epidemics show up during election season. Wow. And there's a whole list.

I've seen several sites on Facebook where people have put the list. I didn't realize it, but you can go back for a long time and see epidemics or threatened epidemics in order to put fear in people.

So my point is that when they give me that argument, I say to them, we're to walk by faith, not by fear.

We're to not walk by sight. We're to walk by faith. We're not to determine our perspective, our actions, our inner attitudes by what we see, but by faith in the word of God.

So back in 1994, and I don't want to make your skin crawl, but if you were a resident in the state of New York where I formerly lived, and you were faced with voting either for a

Republican, George Pataki, who was just as pro -abortion as his opponent, the

Democratic candidate, and the incumbent, Mario Cuomo, you would not have voted for either one?

I wouldn't have voted for either one of them, and I wouldn't have hesitated not to vote for them. I may have voted for the conservative party.

Is the conservative party of New York still in existence? To my knowledge, it is, yes. Because you know it did elect the

United States Senate back in the 20th century. It elected a man. And back in the late 20th century, the conservative party, though it didn't have enough power and people to elect its candidates, it did have enough power to influence the public debate during election times.

So there's more than one way to skin a cat. In fact, what was that guy's name that ran and got elected to the

United States Senate for one term from the conservative Buckley? It wasn't the famous Buckley, but it was another one,

I think. We have a first -time questioner who has a question for you.

Gary from Campbell, California, has a question. Greetings, Chris.

I would like to ask Joe, what are some of the things Christians must do to engage the culture?

That is a great, great question. That's one of the things

I preach on over and over. I tell preachers when I give lectures to young preachers or teach or mentor young preachers,

I tell them, you must expound the text and then you must personally and directly apply that text to the individuals in your church.

But you haven't finished your preaching work unless you've applied that text culturally.

Christians for the 20th century have been plagued with an old pagan

Greek philosophy called Neoplatonism. And Neoplatonism says that the material, the physical, is base and lowly and the only thing that's important is the intellectual, the spiritual, and the heavenly.

And that has crept in to Christians' belief that he should not get involved in life in this world, that his only concern is going to heaven and saving as many individuals as he can before Jesus comes and burns everything up.

And so as a result, modern Christianity has lost its cultural involvement.

We talk constantly about Christ being our personal Savior. That's wonderful.

But also in the Bible, Christ is not only a personal Savior, He is a cosmic

Savior. I give lectures on history and medieval

Christians had something that we've lost. Medieval Christians, for a thousand years, the church betrayed them and it took a reformation.

But medieval Christians in Europe believed something. They would speak of Christendom.

They wanted Europe to be Christian. They didn't do it very well.

I'm not recommending them as a model at all. But they understood that nations were to be

Christian. Charlemagne wasn't a perfect king, but in the Frankish kingdom, he would go around and make sure the priests were reading the

Bible enthusiastically, made sure that they were leading singing enthusiastically, or he'd send them away to a monastery for the rest of their lives.

And he would speak of the Frankish kingdom as a Christian kingdom. Alfred the Great, one of my great heroes, the one king of England deserving the title

Great. Alfred the Great sought to make the kingdom of Anglo -Saxons an overtly

Christian kingdom. These men weren't afraid to talk about that. They didn't do it well and the church betrayed them.

But today, the average Christian has never even heard the word Christendom. Now the

Reformation did not do away with the word Christendom. It purified it.

Because the Reformation understood that the kingdoms and nations of this world had become the kingdom of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And so they understood that the gospel was not only something that influenced people personally and spiritually, but it was something that changed cultures.

In fact, in the middle 1500s with Luther and Calvin and Knox and Zwingli and Bollinger and Butzer and all the rest, for a thousand years,

Europe had been backsliding because of the church. Medieval church. And in less than one generation, through the preaching of the pure gospel by these 16th century

Reformers, in less than one generation, that is in less than 20 years, Northern Europe was transformed by the gospel and Great Britain.

And not only that, but out of those 20 years, eventually North America was established and became the great

Christian republic of the world for many generations. Less than one generation.

It took hundreds of years to get to where they were in the bad times in the 1500s.

It took less than one generation for the power of the gospel. And the reason I say that, the reason it happened,

I talk to people all the time and they say, well, this world is just so depraved and the

American culture is just so evil that we can't expect any changes to take place.

And I'll just quote through the one verse of the Bible. Don't overcome evil with evil, but overcome evil with good.

I happen to believe that as powerful as total depravity is, God's sovereign grace in Christ is infinitely more powerful.

Amen. In fact, I think you'll like the way that I end every one of my programs here on Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio.

It's a quote by the Puritan Christopher Love, where every day

I conclude the show by saying, I hope you will remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are a sinner. That is a great statement. Well, thank you,

Gary, in Campbell, California. And guess what, Gary, you have a double surprise coming to you.

Not only are you getting a free copy of the book With Liberty and Justice for All, Christian Politics Made Simple by Dr.

Joe Moorcraft, but since you are a first -time questioner, you're also receiving a brand new

New American Standard Bible, compliments of the publishers of the NASB, and they will both be shipped to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com.

So keep an eye open in the mail for them. Make sure that we have your full mailing address in Campbell, California.

We are going to our final break. It's going to be much more brief than the last break. So if you'd like to ask us a question as well, or ask

Dr. Joe Moorcraft a question, I should say, send in an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. And only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. Joe Moorcraft. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

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Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

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Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

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For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333

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That's l -i -y -f -c dot org As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Are you a

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We were made to thrive. Iron Sharpens Iron This is

Aaron Zinn, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

His name is Dan Buttafuoco. Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the

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Dan Bonifuco's number is 1 -800 -669 -487 -8 1 -800 -669 -487 -8 or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com I'm Dr.

Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually. Even many of the major Christian networks that include excellent biblically faithful teachers on their lineup sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics.

If you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace, you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to FirstLoveRadio .org.

They feature Christ -centered programming from Reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological soundness and biblical faithfulness, such as Dr.

W. R. Downing, Dr. Peter Masters, Pastor Joe Jackowitz, Pastor Robert Gifford, Al Martin, Edward Delcor and more.

FirstLoveRadio .org also livestreams my Iron Sharpens Iron radio program daily.

Please stick around on FirstLoveRadio .org after Iron Sharpens Iron radio is over to continue being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace.

Spread the word about FirstLoveRadio .org. And don't forget folks, immediately following Iron Sharpens Iron radio live streaming, or should

I just say streaming because his show is not live, streaming on FirstLoveRadio .org,

the same radio network, internet radio network that livestreams Iron Sharpens Iron, Pastor Joe Jackowitz, founder of FirstLoveRadio .org

and also pastor of Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California, he will be preaching immediately following the show as he does every day.

And also remember that every Wednesday now he is at 10 p .m. Eastern Time hosting an online

Bible study called Bible Talk. So just keep that in mind. You don't want to miss

Joe Jackowitz whenever you have the opportunity to hear him preach or teach. He is an extraordinary and biblically faithful brother.

And by the way, the last, I just discovered that the last listener, first -time listener who sent in a question,

Gary from Campbell, California, he is actually a pastor and I wanted to plug his church since he has the highest of respect for you,

Joe. His name is Gary Wagner. Yes, and he says,

I believe that Dr. Joe Moorecraft is one of the most gifted preachers in America today and he pastors

Reformed Heritage Church in Los Gatos, California. The website for that church,

I always like to plug solid churches whenever I can, Reformed Heritage Church, I'm sorry, that was wrong.

It's ReformedHeritage .org. The name of the church is Reformed Heritage Church, but the website is

ReformedHeritage .org. ReformedHeritage .org. Thank you very much,

Pastor Gary. We hope that you continue listening and continue submitting questions to Iron Shepherd and Zion Radio.

I think he's one of the most important preachers in California. Wow, that's saying a lot.

Let's see here, we have John in Bangor, Maine, and John in Bangor, Maine has a question for you,

Dr. Moorecraft. He asks, what do you think are the biggest disappointments from the

Republican Party that you can list? Well, we don't have all day.

In fact, we only have 10 minutes now. Yeah, I know. The thing about the

Republicans, and I ran as a Republican during the Reagan period when

I ran for the United States Congress, and there are some very good Republicans, but overall the people in the

United States Congress, the Republicans, don't have much backbone. I'll tell you what

R .J. Rushduty said. I believe R .J. Rushduty was one of the most important authors of the late 20th century.

He told me one time, he said, Joe, I believe that Democrats are more principled than Republicans.

He said, I don't agree with any of their principles, but they're willing to go to the wall for their principles and destroy

America if they have to for their principles. He said, the Republicans are not that principled.

They have principles that they should be willing to die for, but they're not.

They're willing to compromise them and negotiate with them and be inconsistent with them, and I think that is an accurate description of what we had before.

For instance, Sanders. Bernie Sanders, though he's not a Democrat, he's a socialist.

Nevertheless, he's principled. He knows what he believes, and he's going to stand by his socialist, communistic principles, whatever the cost.

When I ran for the United States Congress, in the early days, the Republican Party in America thought

I was going to win, and so they took me into their bosom, and into their bosom, they took me into their bosom, and in their bosom, they took me into their bosom, and in their bosom, they took me into their bosom, and in their bosom, they took me into their bosom, and in their bosom, they took me into their bosom, and in their bosom, they took me into their bosom, and in their bosom, they took me into their bosom, and in their bosom, they took me into their bosom, and in their bosom, they took me into their bosom, and in their bosom, they took me into their bosom, and in their bosom, they took me into their bosom, and in their

That the goal of the Republican Party is like the goal of the Democrat Party, getting, keeping and advancing power.

Whatever you have to promise, promise it. They do their polls, they find out what people want, that's what they offer.

And of course in a culture that no longer believes that there are moral absolutes from God in the

Bible that govern everything, including politics. When we live in a culture that no longer believes in moral absolutes, the only thing left is power.

And politics today is simply a competition for power without principle. I had a young woman,

I'll tell you this real quickly, I had a young woman come to my office one time for counseling. She was about 30 years old, late 20s, she lived a rough life, she'd been in prison.

She was from North Georgia and she was a Buddhist. Well I didn't know anything about Buddhism at the time, so I was praying,

Lord show me some way to witness to this young woman. So I asked her this question, she wasn't involved in this, this was just a tip to get to her.

I said, what do you think about child molestation? There was a bunch of child murders during that time in Atlanta.

What do you think about child molestation? And she said, oh I think it's evil. I said, well

I think it's evil too. And I think it's evil because the Bible says it's evil, but I'm interested and confused.

Since you as a Buddhist do not believe there's a book of moral absolutes governing everybody's action,

I cannot understand why you think child molestation is evil. I can understand why you wouldn't like it, why you wouldn't prefer it, why you wish people didn't do it, but I don't know on what foundation you can call it evil.

And she started crying. And she said, if I can't condemn child molestation as evil,

I don't want to live in a world without moral absolutes. Wow. I said, man, you don't.

And the same moral absolute that's condemned the child molester condemned you for not believing in the

Lord Jesus Christ. And she made a profession of faith in my office. Praise God.

Hallelujah. Yeah. So that's where we are. If we do not presuppose and use

God's moral absolutes found in His law in the Bible, we have absolutely no basis for distinguishing good from evil.

And that's what the civil magistrate must do. God says the purpose of the civil magistrate,

Romans 13, is to punish evil people for the protection of good people with the power of the sword, that is, the use of deadly force when necessary.

Now if the civil government does not have an infallible standard to distinguish good from evil, it's just as likely to use that sword to protect the evil against the good.

By the way, we have Susan Margaret from Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who says,

Chris, I did a little homework on the Internet and found out that the last time before today that Dr.

Joe Moorcraft was your guest, when he was discussing this very same book, was in 2007.

Is that right? December 4, 2007, to be precise. Wow. Well, we can't let that happen again,

Joe. That's 13 years. I know. Well, I would love to do it any time. In fact,

I already know that I want you back to continue. Not only do I want you to start a new subject and discuss your commentaries on the

Westminster Larger Catechism, but I want you to continue discussion on this book because we've only scratched the surface, even with your book,

Liberty and Justice for All. Yes, sir, I would love it any time. You just said I can do it and you can do it.

I'm for it, and I praise the Lord for your ministry and for your radio outreach.

Well, thank you very much. Let's conclude with a good note here on the power of a minister of God.

It's interesting. How much time do we have? Just about three or four minutes? We have three minutes.

The interesting thing is that the civil magistrate in Romans 13 is called a minister of God.

That's right. And I'm called a minister of God, so what's the relationship here? Well, a minister of God in the church, a preaching elder, is somebody who has no legislative authority.

That he is to administer the gospel he finds written in the book.

He cannot add to nor take away from it. I just can't make up new doctrines. I can't make up new principles.

I must administer what's presented in the Bible. Well, in that sense, the civil government is a minister of God.

It has no legislative authority in that it cannot create laws not based upon the laws found in Holy Scripture.

A case can be made that every law that the United States and the various states have made not based upon Holy Scripture are detrimental to liberty and justice for all in our land.

Wow. We have one more question that we have time for.

The power to tax. Tell us about that. Romans 13 does give the civil magistrate the power to tax, but not just any kind of tax.

Every single tax in the United States now is unbiblical and therefore detrimental to the family and detrimental to our society.

God gives in the Bible, the civil government, the authority to levy one tax, and that is a head tax in Exodus 30.

A head tax where every male over 20 years old is charged the same amount and it's a small amount so that nobody can complain.

And of course people ask me, they say, do you think that the federal government of the United States can sustain itself with that small of a head tax?

And my answer is no. I don't want this octopus to be sustained.

I want it to be bumped down to size. To be a civil magistrate that has limited authority as our founding fathers intended for it to have.

Rush Stoney again wrote a great book on taxation and tithing that I recommend to everybody.

It's called Tithing and Dominion. Tithing and Dominion by R .J.

Rush Stoney. Great. In fact, R .J. Rush Stoney was a client of mine many years ago.

He was a part of a radio program that I created involving a number of different Reformed teachers.

And Dr. Rush Stoney or Brother Rush Stoney was a host of The Voice of Sovereign Grace on one of the five nights that that program aired weekly.

I'm not surprised to hear that. And I always loved my interaction with him, a very gracious brother.

He was a great man. In fact, real quick, PBS did a one -hour program on,

I think it's called God and Politics. And Rush Stoney was on it.

He was interviewed by Bill Moyer. I was. Several other people were. And it's basically positive.

I was shocked. Wow. And you can still see it on YouTube, God and Politics. I will try to watch that tonight.

Please do. In fact, Bill Moyer concluded his program, and we wrote his final words.

He said this, and we can talk about this the next time we're together. He said, the

Christians who want to crown Christ King in politics are against democracy for the same reason we're for it.

It's an enemy of moral absolutes. Wow. Wow. Well, we have to conclude there.

And I know that your website for Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia is HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com.

HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com. And don't forget, folks, you could also look up more about ComprehensiveChristianity .com

and the other things that they make available, including this book that we have been discussing today. I want to thank you so much,

Dr. Moorcraft. I look forward to your return very soon. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater