November 27, 2017 Show with David J. Engelsma on “The Gospel Truth of Justification: Proclaimed, Defended, Developed (Part 3)”

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Justification by Faith Alone and the Need for a Full Gospel

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Monday on this 27th day of November 2017 and I am delighted to have back on the program as promised Professor David J angles ma for part three of our discussion on his massive 523 page hardcover book gospel truth of justification proclaimed defended developed.

Professor J angles ma is author professor of dogmatics and Old Testament studies for 20 years at Protestant Reformed Seminary in Granville, Michigan and Emeritus professor since the Synod of 2008. He's the editor of this or has been the editor of the standard-bearer magazine from 1988 to 2002.

He's a lecturer and preacher touring in North America and throughout the British Isles on behalf of the British Reformed Fellowship which is developed to spread and defend the Reformed faith in the United Kingdom.

And He is as I said today addressing part three of a discussion that we have already begun over two segments. The gospel or should I say gospel truth of justification proclaimed defended developed? And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio professor David J angles ma.

Thank you for having me Chris and.

This is a massive work. I would think that you might consider it a magnum opus of yours or one of the highlights in your collection of writings and I think that it would be wise just because of the fact that there are people listening to part three before they're listening to part one and two for you to give an abbreviated summary of.

Maybe that's a redundant phrase an abbreviated summary. But if you could give a brief as summary as possible of what the biblical doctrine of justification truly means.

Let me say something about the book. First of all that you referred to. I had intended. It took up its place by. Right I completely understand.

And it's better to go a little bit longer than you need to then be inadequately short. And because this is a vital doctrine. This is Justification by faith alone is a doctrine on which True saving faith stands or falls and there are there are Evangelical ministries and parachurch organizations that have Approached this issue as if it's a minor detail I know throughout My life as a Christian since the 1980s.

Have it having been saved out from Roman Catholicism that there have been Organizations that once had an Orthodox or should I say biblically sound because I don't want anybody to think we're talking about Eastern Orthodoxy when I use the term Orthodox or when you use the term but biblically sound theology organizations that seemed At least on the surface Like they were echoing the gospel of the Reformation which we would believe obviously is the gospel of the Bible.

But then they in order to be more appealing to a wider audience Changed their statement of faith and I've noticed this had occurred with a number of very major parachurch organizations that were Going under the guise of being evangelical where they removed the words alone.

Now if a church organization or individual Says that they are saved by grace through faith by Christ according to the Bible to the glory of God that would be true in part, but not enough truth is in are in those statements because There never would have been a reformation nor need for one if the Roman Catholic Church.

Had.

Or should I say if the Roman Catholic Church was correct? in believing in Simply that explanation because the Roman Catholic Church does believe that we are saved by grace through faith because of Christ According to the scriptures, but the removal of alone it creates a chasm of difference doesn't.

One may say by Christ by Christ and by the good works of the center it is not by great, but deliberately they'll sign an indication of a faith and.

Before we go into one of the attacks that has taken place over the last several decades. Before we go into one of the attacks against the gospel of justification by grace alone through faith alone. Which namely would be the ECT or evangelicals and Catholics together document.

I did want to Return to a question that One of our listeners sent in last time you were on. Because it was the way it was written. You could not answer it because it wasn't sufficiently stated. He didn't he didn't give enough information to the question and the specific question he was asking about was Mark Jones's view of justification.

But he has he has written a very lengthy email that I don't have time to read and I will forward that to you So that you can correspond With this individual. His name is Aaron from Grand Rapids, Michigan.

You can you can correspond with him in more detail about this, but he has Summarized his question in a much briefer way of phrasing it. At the end he says perhaps a better question to ask a professor angles ma would be can the doctrine of a conditional covenant and Justification by faith alone be harmonized or does a belief in a conditional covenant Exclude the possibility of justification by faith alone.

Thank you for interviewing professor David angles ma. Chris once again.

I.

Request that you only use my first name, which I did. Yes, perhaps obviously now we would need a definition of a conditional covenant. And I believe that was something that came up during our discussion of the federal vision the last time where a belief is Stated not only by federal visionists, but by some others who are Pato Baptists.

And I recognize that you Professor angles ma are a Pato Baptist, but do not believe in a conditional covenant in a new New Testament sense or a new covenant sense where someone can truly Be an actual member of Christ's covenant, but then be removed from it.

From what I understand the last time you would agree with Reform Baptists on that issue that if you are truly in the covenant, you will be in heaven because Christ is mediating between the Father and yourself.

If you are indeed truly a part of that covenant.

To your description just given I say in doctrine of us. Amen. That's right. So the teaching of this the establishment not in some the sphere of the cup publishes his covenant with this person and Incorporates him into Jesus Christ and begins to bestow upon this baptized person salvation of Jesus Christ including justification.

A.

Careful attention to that is the gift of jeopardize child at least in its beginning stages but from there on Salvation and the covenant is conditional. It depends upon the child and the child's pearl loses in that God began to work in him and perishes everlastingly not only conditional and that jeopardization by grace alone and All of the heresy of the denial of some teaching of a conditional covenant.

If the covenant is conditional it depends upon the prodigies. And now how would this?

Be different from Arminian ism and even worse Pelagian ism because They the adherence to federal vision all claim Unanimously to my knowledge to be reformed they they do not Say that they have become Arminian and of course many would deny that.

They deny justification by faith alone, or at least I shouldn't say many because I don't know of many but the one. Every person that I have spoken with who adheres or professes to adhere to federal vision with the exception of one Said that they do believe in justification by faith alone.

So therefore a full-blown Pelagian ism May or may not be applicable to them. That depends on whether they're being accurate and honest about that claim that they don't deny justification by faith alone.

But if you could explain from what you understand about federal vision and then we'll move on to our our main topic, which is the Evangelicals and Catholics together what is the difference between the federal vision and Arminian ism and Pelagian ism.

Federal vision theology is Arminian ism especially introduced into the sphere of the covenant. Him and order my understanding my. Every book and theologians have written including a volume in time quotes them in context.

Stating Implication, it's a matter of bold bald Frank beginning of the saving work of Christ in some children, which later can be lost and In the case of Norman Shepard who comes to my mind We may say loves you with a saving love in Jesus Christ and Christ died for you.

That's not an Implication and of course when you say universal atonement, you're not speaking of universalism that would say hell will be empty.

Of any inhabitants you mean that the death of Christ was intended? For the redemption of every single human being that has ever lived or ever will live. That's correct.

And so it's the Arminian doctrine of the atonement of Christ. He died. That is Arminian. Arminian is a mix.

Yes, it is Charles Spurgeon. I think very appropriately appropriately put it that the Arminians Truly have a limited atonement. Because it is more than just limited in its scope as Calvinists believe it is limited in its power.

It does not save everyone for whom it is intended to say.

That's correct. And with regard to the charge now and.

For the Arminian listening who says now, wait a minute. Why are you calling them in the federal vision? Arminians when we do believe in justification by faith alone as far as I know John Wesley for instance.

Believed in justification by faith alone, although we who are reformed do not think Arminians are logically consistent in their theology. In fact, I would believe that if you are consistent in your theology as an Arminian you would be a.

An adherent to open theism where God doesn't even know the future or doesn't know the future of all things and even the open theists themselves. Very often call themselves Consistent Arminians, but just for the sake.

Yeah, sure. Go ahead about the Arminian doctrine of justification. Yes, the Arminian the Armenian doctrine of justification. Believing itself is the Bogart.

In fact, could you could you read the quote of Arminius when we return from our break because we were already past our love to. Okay, great. We will have you do that as soon as we come back. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris A-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com. Please. Give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if it is about a Personal and private matter over which you were asking.

And Aaron and Grand Rapids, Michigan. We still I don't believe ever received your full mailing address. Because not only have you won a copy of gospel truth of justification proclaimed defended Developed by professor David J. Engels, ma, but you've also won a free New American Standard Bible since you were a first-time questioner.

So we look forward to getting that from you as soon as you can send it to us. But we'll be right back a god-willing right after these messages from our sponsors. So, please do not go away.

The Arminian View of Justification and Conditional Salvation

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John Piper, Final Judgment, and Works as Evidence

Welcome back. This is Chris Sorensen. If you just tuned us in our guest today is David Engelsma and he is an author professor of dogmatics and Old Testament studies for 20 years at Protestant Reformed Seminary in Granville, Michigan an emeritus professor since the Synod of 2008 editor of the standard bad standard bearer magazine from 1988 to 2002 a Lecturer and preacher touring in North America and throughout the British Isles on behalf of the British Reformed Fellowship which is devoted to the spread and defense of the Reformed faith in the United Kingdom, and he's addressing part three of a discussion on his book gospel truth of justification proclaimed offended.

Developed this is a massive 523 page hardcover that has been published by Reformed Free Publishing Association and This is a must-have for anyone's library in my opinion whether you are Reformed or not.

So you can refer to at least documentation on what the Reformed faith actually teaches and believes rather than going on speculation or Coming up with slanderous theories against the Reformed faith. An excellent volume and a must-have for all who profess to love Christ and his word our email address if you'd like to join us on the air.

With a question of your own is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the USA. And only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter for instance if you disagree with your own pastor on this issue perhaps You are a Roman Catholic or a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

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Professor angles. No, you were going to quote Jacob Arminius and it reminded me that many if not most Evangelicals today who would have a More modern-day version of Arminianism and evangelical Arminianism are not quite as heretical or have not quite departed as far from the truth as Jacob Arminius did and I don't know if you agree with that distinction, but I think that That perhaps Arminius was much more clear in his heresy regarding the involvement of men's works than the modern-day a typical modern-day.

Evangelical Arminian would be I'm not passing judgment of standard at all. That's justification is ascribed to faith. Accepts ends by faith, but his believing him for righteousness. That is as much Arminius that is as much a denial of the gospel tradition by but in both cases and just concern that is holy God and a Righteous God who demands perfect obedience to his law.

How can my act of believing itself be my righteousness. My act of believing is not my perfect obedience to the law. My act of believing is not my suffering of the just punishment of my disobedience. Obedience to the one who died of God in the place of sinners is the only righteousness That will meet the faith in as an instrument by which Christ becomes our righteous.

Well.

We do have a listener In Hawaii, I'm so delighted to hear from Hawaii because Hawaii was the only state that I had not heard from in all the years of broadcasting iron sharpens iron radio going back to 2005 until very recently about I Don't know how many months ago.

It was we started hearing for the first time from Hawaii. And now we hear another Person from Hawaii Gary in South Point, Hawaii Says, how would I explain the errors in John Piper's final salvation? Which must contain good works performed after justification by faith alone at the beginning of a believers?

Profession of faith now that would assume that you knew what John Piper is written on this and whether or not Gary has accurately Interpreted what John Piper wrote on that? So, um, I've heard bits and pieces of this, but I don't even really know the full-blown Context.

So perhaps you do professor angles. No, I'm going to apologize to Gary.

I have not read there is the final judgment when God pronounces a verdict. If you could explain.

What makes your understanding they're different from Jesus separating the sheep from the goats? Yeah, because when you see Jesus You know setting Apart the sheep from the goats. He's explaining all the things that the.

Goats.

Did not do. And he's explaining all the things that the sheep did do. The sheep didn't even know that they did them and he basically was saying that when you have done it to the least of these my brethren you've done it unto me and.

So, how would that be different. Are not being judged or should I say I guess there's a big difference. I should say there is a big difference between being saved and being judged according to our works, but if you could explain the difference.

That calls to mind the fabrication and the final judgment by faith. A they come up. Not. New Testament does not bring up the good as the ungodly are concerned. They will certainly be judged on the basis of their evil works.

Significant that a few 25 ready before he brings up their good works. People who bring in good works and are insistent on bringing in good works at the basis of don't know themselves as the Perfection God will bring up and he will reward them.

And that demonstrates how gracious he is because we did those good works. Only by his grace in us when we did them. We didn't love him in any of them with and still he graciously rewards us. And here it comes to mind that the Heidelberg's merit.

So what you're saying if you boiled it down to is That there is an enormous difference between being judged by Our works and according to our works. Yes.

According to has the idea and we have to go to our midway break right now.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

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