The Most Amazing Conversation You'll Ever Watch

Apologia Utah

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They're just gospel for Mormons. We're out here preaching to everyone, just primarily Mormons. You LDS? Fulfilling the covenant.

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So like you would say like temple ordinances and stuff like that? Well did you grow up like LDS like born and raised?

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Same. I was born and raised the same way. So what are you like acquainted with? My name is

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Mo by the way. Taylor. Nice to meet you Taylor. Well dude praise

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God you're here. I mean I was exactly so when I left the Mormon church it was actually the same thing. I was like I want to know

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God you know I want to know you know who God is and I was like acquainted with the hypocrites. You know you're like you know you're a you're a saint on Sunday then the rest of the week you're like a devil you know.

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So I was acquainted with the idea but I wanted to come to know God. I wanted to come to know who God was. I actually did baptisms for the dead like every

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Friday. I'm 17 by the way. Yeah it's the beard that is hilarious but I was doing research in like you know who is

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God you know like uh the scriptures in terms of the bible what does Jesus say about himself um you know how what's the gospel like the true gospel not like a mystified good word it's like what is the gospel and so I I learned from uh from reading the church is that the church doesn't believe in the true

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Jesus of like who he was according to the bible and they also have they don't have a gospel as well that saves um you're acquainted with the idea you have to work to heaven but you can't keep be consistent you can't keep those laws almost as if like you're enslaved but according to the bible the gospel is this uh that Jesus Christ God in human flesh he took on flesh lived a perfect life and then he dies on the cross and he took upon the wrath of sinners so instead of God putting his wrath on you because you have sinned against God it is your debt to pay the

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Lord pays it for you so it is by faith in him that you're his all men are saved this is in Ephesians 2 for by grace are you saved through faith not by words lest any man should boast you didn't know that did you well a lot of us

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I also didn't but I think I praise God that you're here um you're sort of like I don't know what to believe at this point sort of coming out of Mormonism you have the inconsistency of the church they say one thing they live another way they preach perfection but they themselves aren't perfect in a way

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I could see your word she doesn't um like a flattery you would say garbage can that's so funny well well how would you how would you how would you you believe the church to be true would you say what they teach well

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I'm talking about like you yourself in general do you are you convinced and convicted that the church in itself um is true it does teach truth absolutely okay so where would you where would you get those truths from I think it's just like being open and accepting to other people kind of a safety net

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I would almost say because it gives you like kind of standards for yourself um well where would you get those so where did you get so you say well it's a good it's a good thing to have standards to stand upon you know like good morals but why where would you get those morals from why why should we have good morals why does it matter

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I think well did you know um so you said they don't you know you don't have to be perfect but as long as you're trying um did you know that and you you have you read the book of Mormon you haven't oh well in their book of Mormon uh in Moroni it's a it's a book in there it's a little section in their book it says in Moroni chapter 10 verse 32 after denying all ungodliness you know dying to yourself doing all these good works loving the lord your god with your heart so mind and strength he says and then will grace be sufficient for you so men are saved not after not like you know just by the mirror you know like just grace as what the bible says it's unmerited grace it's god's favor gift upon you upon sinners who deserve wrath but he gives embrace um the

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Mormon church actually teaches against that they would reject um that idea that no you have to be uh they reject the idea that you don't have to be perfect and they demand perfection they actually demand it they say that you're saved by attempting all these godly works in their book of Mormon I know you haven't read the book of Mormon but that's what the book of Mormon teaches well

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I'll put it this way you you brought up experience right so you would say well from my experience from what I've grown up in what

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I've seen I would say the church is true okay well say I was a Muslim who believes that I can blow people up in the name of jihad and that will get me straight to heaven because that's in their book they believe that if you blow yourself up that's like the quickest way to get all your to get to heaven to be with allah to be um with 69 virgins and stuff like that and they say well

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I'm convinced by my own experience that this is true so how what would you say to that Muslim who believes that it truly is a yeah you were given life a terrorist yeah the church is true because this is something that I wish

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I fought for like before um was the no you should be allowed to live in a state that does not allow we because you should want the safety of your children and with addiction and so I think we need a safe place where that doesn't exist and sometimes

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I do think that's what the Mormon church stands for is um a safe place okay well

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I'll put it this way so you would say let's just drop it back on experience because I agree as Christians according to the bible um you know we ought to live to serve and for the well -being of others

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God because they're made in the image of God God says he says to them who slaughter and shed innocent blood by their blood shall be shed as well by man and so we believe that we should you know take care of others love others because they're created in the image of God um now you're saying from your own experience could that only be from your own experience what about the

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Muslim who says no because you can say well well because of this it's better to take care of your family we're like well from my experience

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I don't think so so what would you say how would you come to a conclusion on truth like that is wrong because we we would agree but how what would you use to um to target that to battle that because the church is truth so long as you're willing to uphold um their truths because um

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I've definitely faced the challenge of like long months of sleeping all day because I told myself

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I would rather be asleep or like a certain person exists because I went through a lot um and I think that can happen to a lot of young kids when they see drugs in the church that you say then

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I just want to abandon this idea of society so I think if you want to believe the church is true then you make it true yourself but it's but but but it's not true

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I said I think it is true but will so think about this imagine I said I think that gravity doesn't exist therefore

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I will not fall am I still going to fall so you're regretting it it's because what we're what

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I'm trying to get you to see is uh the you're it's sort of inconsistency we're saying this is true this is true but then you're saying well it's whatever you think is true but then you're saying well they shouldn't do this well if it's only what you think what gives you the right to go to them and say well you know you shouldn't be doing this according to who and now

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I'm convinced because according to what God says about us about men he says that we're creating the image of God the law of God's written on your heart that's why you say we shouldn't be killing each other it should be way more safe because you're creating the image of God the law of God according to Paul in Romans uh

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Romans 3 Romans 2 and 3 it says that the law of God's written in the hearts of men that's why they do the things in the law they attempt to keep and sustain human life that's because you're creating the image of God but the church doesn't believe that actually

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I'm telling you so all right let me let me let me sort of slow it down a little bit

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God says that we're created in his image we have the law of God written upon the hearts of men that's why you know good from evil it's not because where you grew up everyone is born with the um with the the knowledge of everyone being having some sort of value that's because we're made in the image of God the

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Bible says you know that and that's why you attempt to say well we should have this safe place we should have these attempts to sustain human life it's because you're and so are they and that's why you do your best to protect them so that's where all those morals come from but it actually also says in the

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Bible as well that all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God no man is good I know not one no man can be good it doesn't say that we're like not perfect it says we're evil you continually sin against God like you said you like I just I can't keep it you know it takes forever well that's like that's the glory of the gospel in Romans where he's actually explaining men being dead in their sins he also introduces the gospel as well where Christ Jesus God in human flesh according to John chapter 1 says it says in the beginning was the word the word is with God the word was

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God Jesus Christ the word of God the eternal son of God takes on human flesh and lives a perfect life and then dies on the cross for sinners that them who believe who repent and believe may be saved that's it and the

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Mormons have a different gospel I mean Paul warns of the same thing he says uh in second Corinthians 11 4 beware of different Christ being preached among you because they'll they will come

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Christ and they will be preaching different Jesuses but they will also be saying the same thing they'll be like well look we feed the poor we do the exact same things you guys do you know why aren't we you know

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Christians as well why aren't we you know the true church as well well the Bible actually says that their deed their their end will correspond with their deeds the

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Mormon church teaches a doctrine that you can become a God that the wife only comes to heaven by the authority of the husband and so you know they're doing good works and it may seem like superficially oh look they're they're really

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I feel safe here but in reality they're not doing those things for your well -being they're doing those things to become like God to glorify themselves and it's sin and it's a selfish sort of good favor because they're trying to work themselves to heaven and they reject

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Jesus's work on the cross they reject his grace they reject the whole the whole saved by grace thing

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I think that's the part that it was just hard which hurts get a lot of like okay so what is so what is the image of perfection so you're quoting you're quoting

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God now have you ever committed adultery me well yeah well actually have you ever lusted after a man or a woman lusted like sexually intendedly looked at someone with sexual intent have you ever said you ever looked at porn that's that's called lust

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Jesus says in Matthew 5 28 he says whoever he says you've heard it said that thou shalt not commit adultery but I say to you if you look upon a if a man looks upon a woman he has already committed adultery in his heart think about when someone cheats where does it start they're gazing they're looking they're lusting after them circumstances it was well think about it does it justify it

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I'm just saying like you can't always take it with like like that's so cool like I will well one's a lot well lusting after women sexually intending looking at them to this day be honest with yourself the

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Bible says that the your conscience has the law of God written onto it so don't lie to your conscience I think like I do sometimes but in the back of my mind

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I'm always trying but you've done it yeah so think about it now

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I want you to think okay so say you die right now and you stand before a holy and just God a

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God who's just and perfect who must punish evil because he is a just and good

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God you stand before him you stand before the Lord do you think you're entering heaven now as you know we're both young have you ever been like depressed and sad in any way well actually the

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Bible says hell is worse than that it is it is a craving thing that is worse but think well I want to bring you home that's why we're out here that's why you appreciate the gospel you know what

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God did so you can go to heaven he sent

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Jesus that is the entire point it wasn't to come and be like hey he wasn't a hippie he came preaching the good news he says repent and believe the gospel for the kingdom of God is at hand the gospel is this that Jesus Christ I've quoted you already

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I'll quote it to you again they came down to live the perfect life with knowledge that he will be crucified take upon the wrath of God for sinners for them who repent and believe now you say well

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I've been depressed and I like most of my whole life he actually says and makes a promise come all to me who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest think about where you've been going

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I mean you told me well I've been I like the Mormon church well Jesus isn't there he doesn't give you they have a they have a different Christ the

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Christ who does not exist so he says come all to me who have a burden and heavy laden and I will give you rest don't don't continue

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I I just I like plead with you now this very moment don't go back to the lifestyle you were you know the reason why you're always sorrowful it's because of your sin the biologist says the wages of sin is death men die physically and spiritually because of their sin

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I just I actually just drank coffee on the way here so the bible I promise you look we love you so much we want you to come to know

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God know Jesus Christ he says in me is freedom Jesus says in John 14 6

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I am the truth to win the life no man comes to the father but through me so if you want to know the truth about God you got to go to Jesus you got to go to the true

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Jesus and it's not like a Jesus who's like you got to wait for like a year and meditate and you'll find him the

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Lord says by faith men come to me open the bible read his word it says um John 17 it says uh sanctify them by their truth by your by your by your word your word is truth so if you're like how do

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I find God how do I find the truth about God open the bible my definition of God in what way like as being about the real

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God or your false your false God not the real one oh so the bible actually wanted to be open to something the bible faith come by hearing by knowing by the word of Christ now the bible says

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God is not a man that he should send nor is he the son of man that he might repent but the bible does say that God is spirit that's what

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Jesus says about God I'm so sorry the it's getting to me it's getting summer but like you want to know the truth of God listen to the promises of Jesus now

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Jesus says he's the way to God you want to know truth about God go straight to Christ go straight to the bible read four gospels now you say you want to be open but but think about it open open open to what open to to lies what about the

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Nazis what well what if I wanted what if I wanted the Nazis what's wrong with me being open up to the

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Nazis you you do you do not want to live well actually it's objectively true that's just there's absolutely something wrong with that they're killing men made in the image of God that's actually not in your eyes that's on the law of God written on your heart so that's that's what makes something wrong is you'll regret it according to society no it's a feeling so feeling definitely okay so what if I felt like I should kill him what if I felt like doing it what if I felt like joining the

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Nazis you just said well you should go by your feeling I said like no well sorry if I misquoted you well

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I'm trying to see where where are you getting at because most of the things you're quoting it's because the law of God's written in your heart thou shalt not murder thou shalt not kill thou shalt not steal or thou shalt not murder thou shalt not steal thou shalt not commit adultery thou shalt not bear false witness all these things of God's law they're written on your heart

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God even says so are you going to believe think about are you going to believe God or your own self monologue you said you've been depressed your whole life you haven't found answers why would you why would you continue to listen to yourself but they're dead okay fallen world it's a fallen world well where are you where are you getting these laws

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I want to ask you because you're saying well I think I think I think what about the someone who says well I think no I think we should kill the

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Jews where on what authority would you say we cannot do this where would you find the objective truth just think about it if you're just going about well you know

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I think this I can do the same thing so how would you how would you talk to someone who really really wants to murder

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Jews would you appeal to well I feel like you shouldn't do that and he says well I feel like I should what are you appealing to what standard according to whom

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I don't know because you could say society but I mean Germany Nazis don't that was a society they were going by society so what makes it wrong with that you see where it's sort of like okay

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I see the inconsistency if that makes sense I just see it as like go to a group to want to talk so you weren't there so I think you just have to start what if I believe something different talking to you saying that would be me saying

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I don't think that's right I just try to I try to see things through a bigger picture as in doing that would but then again

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I mean we're back on the the conversation where I mean it's what I believe you know it's on what

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I believe and you say well it's a long conversation well yeah sure the long conversation can be long but you're saying that if someone believes it to be true they can do it they can you know they can do

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I'll believe it's wrong they can just you know they can do it now you're saying well no that's that can't be right they just can't do it that's because the law of God's written on your heart

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I've been telling you purposely this isn't it says in God's word the Bible says that the word of God is breathed out by God you have to think about it so let's let's let's go back so it's the purpose of why we're here say you died okay say a car just comes in we're both dead and you stand before God the holy

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God holy Justin God are you going to heaven be honest with yourself

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I know those don't exist

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I would say like so when were those when were those sins cleansed okay so your own good work you'd say because the

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Bible you know the

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Bible condemns actually it says that no man shall be justified by the law whoever tends to be justified by the law will not like they're condemned it's actually in Paul's letters in the

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Galatians he says you have fallen from grace the Galatians said they said you can have faith in Christ that's it but you just need one like one aspect of that law once you have that one aspect you can make that happen they added one law they added one good word that would glorify themselves and and Paul condemned them he said you have fallen from grace and think about it like be honest

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I'm asking you if you stand before God who knows your heart he knows your intents the

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Bible says in Hebrews that the word of God is like a like a sharper than a double -edged sword piercing the heart marrow separating soul from body marrow and bone

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God knows your heart I mean you can say well you know I think this way but he says

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I truly do know your heart I truly do know what you're intending I do know the evil in you and God says no man is good

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I know not one think about your whole life you've sinned your whole life which I have too all men have fallen and fallen and sinned against God every single person on the planet now if you stand before God with that with the heart you have now do you honestly think you're going to go to heaven according to her you feel it to be true so good works when

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I try to learn about so we're going back to the good works thing the

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Bible actually says that once you sin against God your good works are like dirty rags they don't mean anything to God because he still your sin still has to be punished imagine okay this this is what

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I like this is sort of what I'm hearing imagine I was a murder right a serial killer say like I just murdered everyone around this block and I stand before a court and they say all right we're gonna we charge you with death

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I'm gonna be put to death because of the sins I've committed now and then I said well you know as I was here

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I said what's up to the security guard he cried with me I cried with him I got to know him a little bit you know

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I fed a couple homeless people on the way here you know come on judge I think I should go I think

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I think I should be set free and then the judge goes oh well yeah you're right and he just lets him go that's called unjust he has to be punished for what he did and that's what you're trying to do you're trying to avoid it by good works but the

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Bible says no no you sinned against God you sinned against him your sin must be punished your good works are like dirty rags and it says whatever is not of faith is sin now you may say well you know

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I've tried to know people understand people more but you never did it to glorify God you did it so that you can you know have this sort of self -righteous this building up the

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Bible condemns trying to be saved by works it says in Ephesians 2 verse 8 for by grace are you saved through faith not by works lest any man should boast by grace through faith in Christ solely alone because think about you have to think about your eternity

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I mean you maybe you're 20 I I'm telling you to stop doing good works for to save yourself

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I want you to look to Jesus so instead of doing good works you chose you're choosing the sin because because you're either doing good or you're doing evil

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Jesus says you cannot serve two masters for you will hate one and love the other whoever is whoever is not with me is against me he says you're either with Christ or you're not you're either in salvation or you're not

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I'm pleading with you please think about it because you may be young you're 20 and I'm 17 but the

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Bible actually says even the young man shall fall it says that your your life is but a vapor you're here one second you're gone the next you could die right now we could die right now you could die tomorrow you do not know the hour you'll stand before God one day okay

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I'll put it aside do you have a Bible at home would you get one well you can download one okay please let her read read the

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Bible read the word read what God has to say about you because I'm hearing the things you're saying and I agree we should keep a safe place which

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I agree Christian Jesus would agree but you're denying him you're you're literally rejecting his gospel you're against him he says and from the depression he says come all to me you're weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest take my yoke upon you and learn from me for my weight is light or for my my yoke is light and my weight is easy my yoke is easy my weight is light you have access to the sin the answer to the gospel you have things that men in hell at this very moment would would would do would set sell anything for think

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Jesus says this think about this before you go what shall it profit a man if he gained the entire world but loses his soul it's a rhetorical question what will he gain absolutely nothing

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I just get scared because the people that what shall it profit a man if he gains the entire world but loses his soul well you got the answer right now like I know people that go to church and have sex you know well sex isn't bad in law as long as it's in marriage

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Mormon churches

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LDS churches yeah because they don't have the gospel the same gospel that you're saying that would this is

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I hope you don't think I'm thinking this way um it's called antinomianism it's a belief that you can trust in Christ for your salvation and not work and trust in him alone and sin all you want

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I would actually preach against that gospel the same way I would preach against this church's gospel it's the exact same way that is a false gospel a gospel doesn't save so the bible does say that we are saved by grace and grace alone not by works of man the thief on the cross

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Lord remember me when I come into your kingdom he was guilty and on his deathbed Jesus said I will he said

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I promise you from this day you will be with me in paradise now we believe solely by grace alone but we also believe that when a man is saved by grace he's a new creature in Christ it says in first Corinthians whoever is in Christ is a new creature old things pass away and everything becomes new they are uprooted from the ground from the heart they're no longer a sinner in terms of they're no longer um led by passions of their flesh they're no longer led to commit adultery all the time there are new creatures in Christ so right now because you're not in Christ the bible says you're led by your passions you're led by your self -gratification your pleasures your adultery your lying the sinfulness the bible says that condemns man and if hell is worse than depression if you think life is worse now what do you think awaits them who reject

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Christ in hell it's the wrath of God think about it if we can't handle sorrows now what makes us think we will handle the full wrath of God please do now

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I want you to ponder it we're both young and we think that we know everything we think that we have all the ways but Jesus disagrees

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Jesus says you're lost you're in your sins right now you're being the way the ways you're thinking the ways you're thinking is they're sin -led they're sin -based or well what will please me more what will give me more pleasure and that's what you're following that's still idle idleness you're still not seeking

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God chill as in like well think about it come on imagine if you're chilling you know

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I would like to are you seeking God I'm seeking are you glorifying him

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I'm seeking a higher consciousness well that's idolatry that's a different God you're putting that's okay sitting against God so you're so so you're doing good works to save yourself is that what you're sort of saying and my family well you well you well well you're going back on think about it you're going back and back on it you're going back on well

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I'm not doing anything bad I'm doing good works but even the good work you said was evil he says you shall love the

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Lord your God with all your heart so mind and strength and then love so instead of seeking

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God you're seeking your own desires okay because I think my family doesn't but what makes your standards over theirs it just think about it think about it well okay this is what

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I want to think about I came out of Mormonism the same way and I thought it was either Mormonism or I'm I'm done

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I'm done with life because it was either that or atheism it was either that or atheism so do not let the

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Mormon church their hypocrisy their their false gospel their false Jesus don't let that turn you away from the true

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Christ you're letting you're letting them the sins of others push you away from Jesus you're talking about the fallibility of man it's not the glory of Christ read the

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Bible learn about him your own faith you say well I want answers to this scripture is right there you know how many men who are right now dead are just mourning

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Jesus says that hell is a place of of weeping and gnashing of teeth they're gritting their teeth because they the same opportunity they were given you are being given right now and you're saying well later well because of this well because of this you know in your conscience that you're you've sinned against God well

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I'm not denying that you have a different view I never denied that I never knew you know I'm not denying that you believe in something we're both human we're both made in the image of God the

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Lord says you know him but you've sinned against the Lord do you live here in Provo yes you do

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I do like how you say like don't I think that's what

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Jesus says I do really appreciate the conversation okay I hope you do

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I'll be praying for you and the one thing is um please do listen

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I took the kids at my high school all the time and they scoff they laugh they treat themselves as if they're going to live tomorrow and then next day

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I mean one kid I think he committed suicide you don't know when you're going to die now now

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I'm so glad you I'm I'm so thankful I appreciate you stopping and listening I hope you listen to read that track um if you want so we're actually from a church um a local church in South Jordan very far away

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South Jordan we call the apology we'll find out there but if you have more questions I mean like if you want me to give you my number and then you could text me or email my pastor here we'd love to answer your questions if you and if you think that you know you know we're wrong and you have like stuff you want to talk to us about please come on there's a lot of churches out there and I was going to go to gospel grace with a friend please do for me to like be like this oh no no so yeah the

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Mormon that's Mormon thinking the Mormon church thinks that uh the church is a building it's a it's a whole organization but actually the church according to scriptures is every believer we're the church right now this is the church of Christ so with the gospel grace we would call them faithful brothers in Christ they just have they just have a different name of the building it's just a different name of the ministry it's called the unity of Christ which no man has you cannot find it without Christ please ponder on the things you said and I'll let you go because okay if you have any questions but yes definitely actually let me put in yours because I actually have no wi -fi right now oh really where we're from you live in Tula so how did you get into Mormonism like how did like you just grew up with it you said earlier okay

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I live in South Jordan yeah well if you're any if you're there anytime soon shoot me a text uh gotcha okay thank you dude

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I appreciate you so much for stopping um praise God I'll be praying for you and if you need anything else uh if you want some more gospel tracks we have questions um can you trust your feelings and they just give you like could we trust our feelings according to God so if you want some of those what do you mean well if you want me to we can grab something right now if you want a book how about how about we give you a bible okay let's go yeah hey

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Andrew what's up are these four uh are these like bibles to give out go ahead here you go yeah so you can read this one and if you have yeah and you have more tracks on the questions you were having on trusting your feelings and please take it you're a sinner aren't you yeah you need it here's our church card too you can email or text us and like if you ever have questions or something we'd love to be there for you in any way

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I'm one of the pastors I'm Wade yeah yeah you're you were

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I'm so glad you stopped that was amazing you made his day but please yeah well that's the gospel

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I mean listen to what Jesus says I mean you told me about your the sadness and depression but Jesus says only

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I can do it um all who come to me who are weary and have delayed and I will give you rest it's not you're crying not because it's like oh it sounds like a good thing it's because those are the words of God himself and it's piercing your heart because you're made in the image of God you're made to hear him you're made to hear his words to live with him and you know in your conscience you've sinned against him and he calls you to faith and repentance in Christ for your forgiveness of your sins and that book will bless you please read it if you have questions will like you can text me

45:46

I'll like I'll spend like an hour with you talking a day if you want if you need you can tell her where to start in the bible uh john gospel we do uh we also at our church do counseling for people so that's something that like honestly modern psychology comes from what's a guy named

46:21

Freud Freudian Freudian thought Rogerian thought and what it is is they want you to kind of lay on couch sometimes and you'll tell them all your problems and they'll listen they'll charge you 150 bucks an hour and in a year from now you'll go but they haven't really resolved my issues and with biblical

46:40

Christian counseling if you were to meet with us we could really get to the root of what's going on you know if it's depression if it's anxiety whatever it may be and find out how like God says to get through it and really

46:53

I've seen people helped by it so just let me know again my our numbers on there we'd love to help you please but really like your path to healing isn't divorced from this book it's in that book of course there's things in this life there's physical issues there's things that what's called the fall affected sickness disease was brought in of course like I'm not dismissing that but we can get a lot of our help all of our help from the word of God and and even though those things are there we can figure out a pathway through it you know what

47:32

I mean if you know if you want a book to start on I probably should have told you that first but the gospel of John it's it's it's one it's the last gospel it's the it's the gospel on on uh centered around Jesus's deity and they call it the gospel of love and you'll love it

47:53

I'll try to pick it up but I really do have to go to work I'm so sorry oh you're good thank you for stopping cool appreciate have a great night okay what's your name