Bonus: Special Live Show

Special Live Edition of Voice of Reason Radio at Cruciform Conference

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Void where prohibited by law. 18-plus terms and conditions apply. See website for details. All right. Welcome to a bonus edition of The Rap Report. I'm your host, Andrew Rapoport. And this is a live podcast that we did at the Chris Reform Conference.

I was a guest on Voice of Reason Radio with the host, Chris Honholz. And the co-host stepping in for the regular host, Richard Story, was Chris Hough from Matter of Theology. A lot of good discussion.

We talk about what was discussed at the conference. Then we get off topics into a whole lot of different topics, mostly around the issues of critical race theory, what could be done about it in the church, in the home.

A lot of good topics here. Some fun we start off with, but a little bit longer than our usual show, but it is packed with good content. So I hope you'll enjoy this bonus edition of The Rap Report coming to you now.

One, two, three.

Reformation Foundations and Why Christians Must Still Stand

Welcome to The Rap Report with your host, Andrew Rapoport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application. This is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

Well, welcome everybody to the first ever live Voice of Reason radio on Facebook, on Internet ever. This is why it's a complete mess already, and people are already checking in. Oh, my buddy Rich, he's on.

Your buddy or your co-host? He's the co-host today because my buddy can't be here. Then what is Andrew?

He got roped in by accident. I don't know how this happened. Brandon did that. We should discuss that one because it was a surprise to you and I that I was a guest. It was a surprise to all of us. Brandon roped you in.

All right. Let me back up.

This is Voice of Reason radio. These are two of the best friends I could possibly ask for, Chris Huff and Andrew Rapoport. Chris Huff with Matter of Theology, who was one of the speakers here at Cruciform Conjurance.

Andrew Rapoport, who nine times out of ten I can tolerate, but has about 300 podcasts. Only five. Only five. 500, okay. Five. Most often you'll catch him on Rapoport and Apologetics Live every Thursday night, 5 p .m. Pacific, I think is when you guys start, 8 p .m. Eastern.

They're kindly sitting in because my buddy Rich is not here. We miss you, Rich. We miss you too, man. I was blessed by Brandon Scalf, who invited me out to be out here, and Andrew, who was kind enough to throw me on an airplane, who got to sit up front in the really nice seats while I was crowded in the back, but thank you.

I can't help that I fly more than you. I will admit, I have flown more in the last six to eight months than I have in the last two decades. Build up those miles. Well, you're the one that keeps paying my way, so I can't.

Really, Andrew's getting rewarded twice. Exactly. Well, no, he uses the rewards to put me on a plane. So I got to be out here for the pre-conference, which was a fantastic conference with Andrew and Anthony Silvestro from Striving for Eternity and with Joel Sattercase at Think Institute, and they did a wonderful three sermons on presuppositional apologetics.

So that was a wonderful opportunity. All of this you can find, by the way, on Cruciform Ministries' Facebook page. You can go back and watch all the videos that have been played. I would recommend you do that.

We're going to talk about some of those. We're going to talk about the topic of still standing, which was the topic of this particular conference. I think it was some just great teachings that went on here.

But Chris was kind enough to sit in for my buddy Rich. By the way, you are The Huff, according to Rich. Oh, okay, cool. This is The Huff. Awesome. No longer Chris Huff. But it's been a real blessing to be out here with you guys and to watch all the various teachings and to be a part of this.

This is the second time I've been able to be out at the Cruciform conference. Brandon, thank you for having me out here and allowing me to be a part of this and allowing me to do this live because this is a little weird.

I've not done this live before. Everybody can tell that now. But I just want to thank you guys for being with us. But you weren't supposed to be in this. I didn't know how I got on.

I just noticed the schedule, and I was like, oh, I'm a guest on the podcast. And then I called you and thanked you, and you said, I didn't know until I saw it on the schedule. Pull this off of here. I think that's part of the problem.

We're being told that we're okay. Thank you, Linda, for letting us know we got some scratchy sounds. If it improves, let me know. It was clipped to a wire, so I think the microphone might have been picking up.

So what do you say. We start with this beautiful thing you're wearing here? A beautiful thing.

So this, by the way, are the new shirts that we got made up from Doctrine and Life. Doctrineandlife .co. This is what we've been telling you guys on our last program. We brought it up, and we actually had them here for the conference, and they are available through Doctrineandlife .co.

They're also available right here for those of you live, $25.

We expect all of you to buy at least one and support Voice of Reason Radio.

But I've got to give Josh Tanner a big thumbs up for that because Andrew was the one who suggested trying to have at least some out here. Josh not only made sure we got them made up, but we actually oh, she said it just got worse.

We're working on it, Linda. I don't know what's Oh, yeah, it could be. So we're trying. Thank you for letting us know, Linda. If you can't hear it, I've got the digital recorder going, so the audio will be better hopefully at some point.

But really appreciate being out here, and Josh not only made sure we got some here, but they got them, I think, two days early over to Brandon Scalf's address. He actually brought them out for us, so that's been just wonderful to have those available.

But, yeah, when we set this up, Brandon had suggested that we could do a live recording. Rich volunteered Chris, so he was kind enough to jump in, and then we all found out when Brandon listed it on the schedule, you somehow snuck in.

I didn't sneak in.

It was a surprise to me. Now, I will say, this year you're wearing a Voice of Reason radio shirt because I think last year at this conference you were wearing a different shirt. Is that right, Drew? Yeah.

He had a different and, you know, I entered him into another contest. I couldn't find Captain America. But, you know, I said that I had something for him, and there's been a lot of questions. It's been fun online to see what is in this package.

So here, you could open it and see whether it's elf People think it's elf shoes, an elf suit.

Yeah, every time you decide to enter me into something, I cringe.

No, I think this is going to be good because he's going to be quite let down that it's nothing to do with an elf, maybe.

Maybe. Okay, let's just clarify something. This is how the contest gets entered. My wife and I get into the car. We're literally getting ready to back out to go to the airport. I get a phone call from this guy.

First question out of his mouth, what's your shoe size? What? The conversation got weird from there. Then he asked my wife's shoe size, and so because I had the bigger feet, somehow I won. And then it just he would not

No, I said her feet were too big. All he told me was, you won. And I'm like, what? Well, find out. And in typical Andrew style, I have no idea what this is. He is so afraid. That's the best part of it.

You realize there's a reason for that. No, I don't. Do the two six-foot tall elf standees ring a bell with you? No. I thought it was James White. No, no. I thought it was James White. No, excuse me. You ignore that.

All right, so there is reason when he decides to start entering me into

So really what this is, is this is a great time for me to give a promo for our supporters at MyPillow. Oh, my goodness. Who sent us some MySlippers. And they could hopefully fit Chris's feet. Oh, my goodness.

So if you want to get anything from MyPillow, you can just go to MyPillow .com and use promo code SFA. Oh, my goodness. So these are their premier moccasin slippers. No elf stuff. I tried giving him something he wouldn't be scared at.

All right. Yeah, those could be elf shoes. How do we get that pranked later on? All right, so it's called makeup for all the other pranks I've done on him.

I hope they fit. Well, we'll find out. So now we understand the shoe size reference here. So apparently I think you all can see my feet, so we're going to see if this works.

Well, do the one without this thing in it. That's all right. I got it. Maybe. He likes doing it difficult. After this, we get serious. All right.

There we go. It fits. Hey, they fit. All right. All right, they fit. Probably fit better without socks on. So thank you. That is actually one of the nicer gifts that I've ever gotten. Please, whatever you do, just no more elf, please.

I'm begging you. I promised no elf. I was getting PTSD from going to the mailbox. I'm just saying.

For those that don't know that reference, if you go to... I think at this point everybody knows. Well, no, not everyone at Cruciform knows, but if you go to the past episodes with... Go to the 200th episode of Voice of Reason, which was their last one from this one, probably.

But you go to that one where James White was on, and they explain the whole history of the elf. Yeah.

That was rather entertaining for a moment. Let's just say that James White, if you see this, I can't even go to the middle of Indiana for a conference without this being brought up. So thanks.

Didn't someone come up to you and say, aren't you the elf man?

No, they looked at my card and went, oh, I know this name. It has something to do with Buddy the Elf. So thanks a lot, Dr. White. It scarred me for life. So, okay. I knew there was a reason I liked Dr. White.

He likes it. Don't listen to him. Keep it up. All right. So anyway, this is we've been having a little bit of fun here. But I wanted us to talk about the main topic of this conference was still standing, 500 years since Martin Luther stood before the Diet of Worms.

Thank you. You got it right. I got it right. Good job. And as what we normally think of and you brought up a point. I'd like you to tell the audience as well about when he says, here I stand. I can do no other.

So help me God. We typically attribute that to something he said. I'll let you explain why that was maybe not quite as how we understand it. But the point of that and the point of this entire program, this entire weekend, was that as Christians, here we are 500 years later, and we still need to be standing.

That's right. That we still need to stand on the very foundational things that were established in the Reformation, the five solas, faith alone, grace alone, scripture alone. Christ alone. Christ alone.

For the glory of God alone. Thank you. For the glory of God alone. That we need to still be standing on that, especially in light of what we're seeing in our culture today. The major cultural issues that we're facing, if we do not stand on those very foundations with the church under assault, we are going to see more and more caving in.

As Votie Bauckham has said, we are on fault lines. And that shift is coming. We're in the middle of it right now.

It's not coming. It's here. It's here. And that was just what I was going to say, is we're seeing that. The Reformation was a recovery of the gospel. It was a recovery of worship. And so it was reforming what had been deformed.

And so what you see today and what you've seen, and Kofi pointed this out so masterfully in his message, was what we've seen over the last 15 months is also God shaking the trees. And exposing the wheat and the tares.

Exposing those, to Kofi's point, who are still standing and those who have never been standing. But there is a need. There absolutely is a need for us to continue to stand firm on the scriptures and be able to be a Berean, to discern what we're seeing out there.

That we're so familiar with the scriptures that we could be equated to those who work for the federal government in fraud. They study the real thing so much that they can recognize the fake like that.

And unfortunately there are many professing evangelicals, professing pastors, and church leaders alike who have capitulated because of either fear of man, mostly fear of man, and idolatry.

No, and that's exactly the thing. We've got today, and I know your sermon was one of the ones that really stood out to me. I think there were several sermons that just really stood out. I think Darren's did, who just at the very beginning, his sermon on, he set it up as we think of Martin Luther still standing, standing at the Diet of Worms.

But that's not, as he said, that's not where he made his stand. He made his stand years ago, every single day of his life, on the word of God, standing for the truth, standing for God's word, to where he was prepared for that day.

And I think that's one of the big problems is that we're seeing, and with your sermon was one of the other ones that I loved, is that it's the headship of Christ. That we have to be under his headship.

This isn't our church. This isn't our program. We are under his head. We are under him, under his authority. We operate according to him. Drew did a fantastic sermon that, still standing on the word preached, that it is God's word that addresses these things.

And yet the capitulation is where we are seeing people not willing to preach the word of God. They're not equipping their people to stand for the truth. And all of this comes back to, I think the one that I really loved listening to was Kofi's message.

This is a spiritual battle. This is an absolute spiritual battle. We are not fighting a culture war through elections and politics and everything else. This is a spiritual battle where there is an actual spiritual enemy that's behind all of this.

And the messages all spoke to that. And I think it's why it's so important that we remember we have to make that stand. We have to still that. So with regard to when you were talking about Christ's headship, explain for those who could not be here.

Again, I'm going to tell you, go to Cruciform Ministries' page, go listen to his sermon. It was fantastic. Talk about why we need to remember why we need to be under the headship of Christ.

Well, number one, just kind of a brief synopsis of the sermon is God, the God of peace, as Hebrews 13 .20 tells us, is the God of peace is the one who, number one, has created everything that we see. He spoke it into existence.

And there is an enmity between us and God and us with one another as well that has been paid for and purchased by the blood of Jesus Christ. And when you read through the Scriptures and when you look through the Scriptures and see, the Scriptures, to my brother Drew's point, elevate Christ.

Everything is Christ. We are his workmanship. We've been saved by grace through faith that no one may boast. So we see throughout the Scriptures that the church is referred to as the bride of Christ, the body of Christ, the family of God, as J .C. Ryle said.

And so we have no authority, even as redeemed people, to take ownership of his body. If we don't acknowledge his headship. Now, look, it's one of those things like Dr. R .C. Sproul said, right? He said he hated the bumper sticker.

The Bible says it. I believe it. That makes it so. It's not a matter of you believing it. The Bible says it.

That makes it so. That settles it. Yeah, thank you. The Bible said it. That settles it. You were too young to see that bumper sticker.

So when it comes to Christ, he is the head of the church. If you refuse to acknowledge that or try to reinvent how church is done, the message that the church preaches, how Christ is worshipped, all you are doing is saying, I don't care about the name and the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And I would sincerely question whether or not you are in the family of God, in the invisible church. And so we have to make sure that we as believers and then those pastors and church leaders that they are desiring to, in word and in deed, honor Christ as Lord.

Jesus, Jesus es curios. We have to make sure that that is the focus. Amen.

Amen. And I think that's one of the big things that I think this conference helps us take away on is this is, as you say, we have no right to try and claim what is his. It's his church. And yet what we're seeing in our culture today has been for quite some time the watering down of the word, the unwillingness to call sin sin, an unwillingness to call people to repentance.

And in order to get behinds in the seats and keep the pews warm and keep the money coming in, we have soft peddled the message so that people can feel like that, that they are there. They're getting something out of it rather than who is this church for?

The church is not about you.

Exactly. The church is not about you. The church is first and foremost for the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ. We are the church. The invisible church is the inheritance that God has given the son. So when it comes to church, we have to remember it's not about you.

It doesn't matter the experience that you have, what you get out of worship, so on and so forth. The church is about the glory and the fame of Christ. We have to make sure what we're seeing in the culture right now, in the church culture, the professing evangelical culture, with the adoption of CRT, with the adoption of these godless ideologies, as Kofi said, that are from the enemy.

They are tools of the enemy, absolutely, wholeheartedly. The reason that we're seeing them in the church, some have said that they're a Trojan horse. No, they're not a Trojan horse. They've been willingly invited in, knowing what they are.

They've been brought in and adopted by those peddling a works-based righteousness, a works-based religion that, as I said in my message, has a homardiology that can never be satiated. So the original sin can never be paid for.

They have a canon of writings. They have an eschatology, a sociology, all of that. And those peddling that, calling themselves pastors, will be held to account. And that's not the place I would want to be when that happens.

Amen.

As someone who's been pastoring, speak to that, what you're seeing as far as the impact of pastors who are bringing this in and are not willing to take that sin.

A lot of it's because of the fact that so many of these pastors, as you said, they're trying to bring people in. We made a major shift, unfortunately, in this country when it went to, well, we've got to be seeker-sensitive.

We lost focus on Christ and put focus on an unbeliever. Church isn't for the unbeliever. Church is for the believer to go out and reach unbelievers. And so the focus of church changed. The definition of church ended up changing for many of these.

It would say in Revelation they lost their candlestick because they're no longer a church. They're a social club with some Christianity sprinkled in. Legalese. Yeah, Christianese. Some Christianese. But the reality is what you end up seeing with it is this is where the problem is.

And now you get goofballs like Andy Stanley going that if you're not in a megachurch, you're somehow sinful. Sorry, but the majority of churches are small. And the majority of churches that are doing well don't care how big they are, what programs they have, and all that other nonsense.

They care about Christ and God's Word being preached. And if God's Word's not being preached, it's not church, period. And so that's where the focus has been lost. It's been lost in the fact. One of the things is my talk going through some of the history.

You end up seeing this is not the first time that the church has given up the authority of the church from Christ and trying to give it to man. That's right. And we see it through the Roman Catholic Church.

That was the whole, in my talk with the debate with Huss, he was saying, no, it's not the church. It's not a pope. It's Christ is the head of the church. And that was, I mean, to them, that was heresy.

Which, in Huss's words, he said, who's a better judge? Who's a higher authority to appeal to than the Lord Jesus Christ? That's right. The sinless one. That's right. How do you get a higher authority than Christ to appeal to?

But men want to appeal to self. And so what they do is they constantly are trying, you know, in the effort of getting people in, getting more people in, they have to do things to appeal to the world rather than to appeal to Christ.

Because if you appeal to Christ, that may not get people in the seats. And I'm going to tell you right now, I've said this for a while with COVID, as now things are starting to open up, you are going to see the parachurch ministries or the churches that are so focused on paying payroll that they're going to start compromising because they got to pay payroll.

It's already happened.

Look, so I would have a question for churches out there who have remained open. You know, there are churches that I know of that would give themselves the label of reformed. Okay? Because they think, because they hold to a reformed soteriology, then that means they're reformed.

Yeah. Wrong. That took the PPP loan. Yeah. And these pastors and these elders are taking six and seven vacations and sabbaticals a year, all while their souls are dying daily and going to hell. Yep. And so to that, I would say, sir, you are more concerned with your back pocket and the cachiche that is coming in.

I probably shouldn't have said that word because it threw everybody off. But you're more concerned with money because that's your idol. Your God is not Christ. Your God is your wallet. And that, again, I will say, you will be held accountable for that.

Yeah.

The pastor's job is to shepherd the people of God. Right. Okay? I'll just say, part of the problem that we have is pastors think they're above the sheep. Pastors are sheep. Oh, good word. Okay. I had one pastor.

He kept telling me, like, you know, he's one of these guys, he was like, I'm going to be the next John MacArthur of these. We're going to have a seminar. Okay. You're not John MacArthur. But the reality is, he kept saying to me, Andrew, that's why they're sheep and we're shepherds.

He got real upset with me one day. I said, you know, don't forget, you're a sheep too. You know? But the thing that you're going to see is so many ministries that are going to compromise because what they're going to try and do, they're going to justify going, well, we're doing ministry.

This is a good thing. We got to keep people employed to do ministry. But they're going to make compromises to try to make sure that that money keeps coming in. Those seats are being filled. I mean, I think one of the best things that happened out of COVID, well, there's a lot of good things that happened, you know, over these 15 months.

And people go, what good things over since 2020? Well, first off, every faith healer or word of faith guy has been proven false. Every one of them predicted Trump was going to win. They all now have proven they're false prophets.

Okay, done. We don't have to worry about any of them. Amen. The other thing that's happened, and it's happened in my church and so many other churches that I know, is so many churches were closed down.

The churches that said no, we open. We stay open because this is what church is. Those churches have grown. Because everyone that was, I think what it is, is there's people that were solid believers in bad churches, and they stayed in bad churches because of friendships.

But now their church is closed, and they, because we have people that come over, and it's like, yeah, my church is still closed. And I'm like, yeah, this is probably somebody who they're the solid believer in a bad church, and they took advantage of the time since their church isn't meeting.

They're going to come over here. And guess what? The solid churches are starting to grow. Now, I don't want to sound Post Mill or anything here, but the Post Mills will probably start saying, well, see, those solid churches are going to grow, and we're going to have revival again.

I pray for that. Sure, sure. I pray for that, for sure. And I do think if there was ever a time that we would see a revival in America, this could be it because all of a sudden solid churches are growing.

But now is not the time for solid churches to go, okay, hey, we're going to capitulate to the government. I mean, the reason all these other churches are as weak-kneed as they are is because they said, well, the government is saying, the government is saying, the government has no say in the church.

That's right. Not because of something of separation of church and state. Well, Romans 13, bro. Because God is over the government. God establishes the government.

I think that's one of the key problems that we're having. It comes back to what we were saying with that we stand on the Word of God. There are so many people, because of what you're just saying as far as what's going on in the churches, that do not understand.

And they are compromised because they've heard that the government has this power. It's Romans 13. We have to submit. And I think a lot of people initially hearing that, they went, okay, let's do that.

But it's because they have not been properly trained up to understand what the Word of God says. Well, let's start with this.

Anyone that thinks that there's these emergency orders, there's no such thing. Nope. The first time it was tried was Abraham Lincoln. It was shot down. There is no law that allows the government to implement emergency orders.

It doesn't exist. So you want to go with Romans 13? Romans 13 would say we follow the Constitution because the other thing is not law. Yeah. Okay? But the reality is that now, if there were, here, for all of your churches that were closed, if there's any pastors watching that were closed, are you reading all the emails from Fauci now to realize it was all a lie?

Everything that many of us have been saying for 15 months, now you know he knew it. It was all political theater. And so the churches that gave into political theater gave into political theater at the expense of God's church and his people.

And I think that's got to be something that is key. We have got to stop thinking that the church can be put under the authority of man. The church is under the authority of God. And where those places intersect, for example, where God has said, government, you have the authority to protect against evildoers, to punish evildoers.

Go back to what everybody likes to talk about, all these scandals in the churches. Okay, let's talk about that for a second. When you're a pastor and you've got somebody that makes a report that somebody has abused someone, that's when you can call in the government and you can have them investigate.

But beyond that, that's not the government's realm. If there's sin going on in the church, it's not a criminal issue, it's not an abuse issue, then the pastor has that authority because it's given to him by the word of God, by God himself, to do.

Let me say this real quick.

For those people who think that government should be able to have a say in what the church does, and I...

Well, hold on, two words for that. If there's someone that thinks the government should have a say in the church, go home.

So, first and foremost, you know, Scripture tells us that all have sinned, right? All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Ephesians chapter 2 tells us that we were dead in our transgressions and sins, in which you formally walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the power, of the air, the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience, among whom we also formally conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Let me ask the believers that can hear my voice this question. What makes you think that someone who is dead in their trespasses and sins, someone who doesn't give a rip about the name of the glory of Christ, or you for that matter, should have any say in how the bride of Christ, the body of Christ, operates?

That is just hogwash. Well, let me add to that. It's not just that. But these are the people who we will sit in the council and judge in the final judgment. And yet we're going to listen to them on how we should do church.

Again, I think that just comes right back to what is the church. And we have a lot of people who simply don't understand what it is. And you have a lot of people who are being faced with oncoming issues and problems that are in our culture today who have not been taught what the church is.

They don't understand its nature and why it exists. And as you said, it is for the glory of Christ. So if you think that a church is a place where people come to get a feel-good message, then you don't have anything to stand against.

I think the bigger problem is the fact that there are too many professing believers out there who don't know what the gospel is. They think the gospel is a set of moralistic rules to help you be a better humanist.

That's what they think. But that's not the gospel. The gospel is the fact that you were dead in your sin and on your way, breakneck speed, crash course to live in eternity in hell under the wrath of God.

And that through the life, death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins is the only thing that you have to stand on. The only hope that you have is Christ. People don't know the gospel.

That's the biggest problem. People who profess Christ, He's my Savior, but is He your Lord? I don't want to hear about this Savior stuff until you tell me He is your Lord and that your desire is to live a holy life under the law of God because you love God.

Amen.

In my book, What Do We Believe?, I have a chapter on the church. The way that actually started was addressing the fact that so many people don't know what church is. The term church has changed over time.

The word ecclesia, in its original form, was a gathering together to vote. Belonging to God. Well, initially, it was just to vote. But then we end up seeing it morphing. In the time of Christ, it's a gathering for the purpose of worship.

Then we end up seeing that as the Catholic Church morphs things, we end up seeing with guys like Wycliffe and Huss going, no, this is the gathering, not just of worship, but it is a gathering of the saints, the visible versus invisible church.

Then the Puritans said, no, no, it's not just that, but it's also the gathering for the purpose of three things. It's the proclamation of God's word. It's the practice of the ordinances. And it's church discipline.

So it's the purity of the church. As we continue to grow, we end up seeing more specifically throughout time. Now, some are going to disagree with me on this. I would just say that we continue seeing that in later years, and we end up seeing that the definition of church grows to make it distinguishable from the nation of Israel.

But some will disagree.

You are in the wrong room to start that discussion.

What we understand, though, is we see that the church has become more and more and more specific, okay? And we have to say, what is the church? First off, you cannot have a church at home. Now, I'm not saying home church.