September 25, 2019 Show with Matthew Robinson on “Puritan: All of Life to the Glory of God”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 25th day of September 2019.

And I'm excited to have, for the very first time on the program, Matthew Robinson, who is director of Media Gratte, and we are going to be discussing a new project that they have developed, and I am really excited about it.

It is a new documentary that they have created, All of Life to the

Glory of God, and I just started watching it about 45 minutes before the show started, and I am just really enthralled with this documentary and can't wait to watch the entire film.

But it is my honor and privilege to welcome you, for the very first time ever, to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Matthew Robinson.

Thank you, Chris. It's my pleasure, and it really is an honor to be on this historic program with you.

I really appreciate that, brother. And before we go into a summary of your own personal testimony of salvation, which is something that we have a tradition here of doing on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when we have a first -time guest, we have them give an abbreviated version of their salvation testimony.

But before we do that, tell our listeners about Media Gratte. Sure. Well, Media Gratte is a small nonprofit organization down in New Albany, Mississippi, where I live.

And I say small, there are three full -time guys and one part -time guy, so right now we make multimedia projects to serve the church.

We named ourselves Media Gratte, that is a Latin phrase for the means of grace, and we certainly do not intend to supplant the means of grace that God has ordained, which we see as preaching and singing and prayer and the

Word of God being preached in the Fellowship of the Saints, which happens in the local church.

But we want to serve the local church by giving documentaries and Bible study materials to the local church for the glory of the

Lord Jesus Christ. We've been around since about 2012 and have put together several, as I mentioned, multimedia

Bible studies and documentaries, and are in a place now where we've just, as you mentioned, finished up a big two -year project on the

Puritans with Dr. Joel Beeky and his two organizations, Reformation Heritage Books and Puritan Reform Theological Seminary, partnering with us on that project.

Dr. Beeky is a longtime friend of mine going back to the 1990s. In fact, that was the first person to get

Dr. Beeky on the radio, because originally the former denomination that Dr.

Beeky belonged to didn't believe in using the radio. And when he was a part of those brethren that launched the

Heritage, which was originally called the Heritage Netherlands Reformed Church and then later became the

Heritage Reformed Church, they obviously began using the radio.

And not only was he a participant on a radio program that I developed in the 1990s called

The Voice of Sovereign Grace, that denomination, the Heritage Reformed Churches, began the

Gospel Trumpet broadcast. And it is great to know that there are solidly

Reformed brethren making use of the media so that we can have a voice of truth amidst all the other clamor that exists in Christian media, much of which is disastrously, ranging from barely adequate to monstrously heretical.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you, brother. And I hope Dr. Beeky is listening.

I look forward to my next meeting with him. I have seen him preach a number of times at conferences, and he is such a gifted and brilliant and humble brother in Christ.

In fact, let me just go through a list of the speakers that you have in this documentary.

We already mentioned Dr. Joel Beeky. Al Mohler, Conrad M. Bayway, Jeff Thomas, Jeremy Walker, J .I.

Packer, John MacArthur, Ligon Duncan, Mark Dever, Rosaria Butterfield, Stephen Nichols, Stephen J.

Lawson, and I have interviewed all of those individuals on Iron Trip and Zion Radio except J .I.

Packer. I have not interviewed Dr. Packer yet. But also, in addition to those folks that I have not interviewed that I am looking forward to,

God willing, interviewing at some point in the future, Ian Hamilton, Gloria Fuhrman, John Piper, John Snyder, Kevin D.

Young, Leland Ryken, Michael Keeves, Sinclair Ferguson, one of my favorite of all preachers and authors.

You know, I'm really excited that you got Jeremy Walker involved.

I mean, I'm excited that you got all of these folks involved. Jeremy Walker might be the least known amongst some of the more globally renowned names, but he is such a brilliant and humble and gifted brother, not only in writing, but I've interviewed him a number of times on this program, and I just love every interview that I do with Jeremy, and I'm looking forward to many more.

And he always makes himself available whenever I've invited him on. And what a gift to the body of Christ he is.

He is a hidden gem, and I hope that everybody listening will look up the writings of Jeremy Walker.

You could go to CVBBS .com, who sponsors this program, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com,

and put in the search engine, Jeremy Walker, and if nothing comes up, they will certainly order whatever you would like to order that has been written by Jeremy.

And of course, Reformation Heritage Books, the publishing ministry that had been launched a number of years ago by the aforementioned

Dr. Joel Beakey. You can find the books that he has written for them at their website, and the

Reformation Heritage Books website, just to let you folks know. And I'm looking that up right now.

I believe it's heritagebooks .org. That's right, it is. Yeah, and I'm so happy to hear you say that about Jeremy.

He is a dear friend, and it would embarrass him to hear us say this, but he really is one of the sharpest and warmest brothers that I think we know of.

Yes. And we try to include him in literally every project that we do. So that's on purpose.

Yeah, and I look forward to having him back, and I will be sure to plug this documentary when I do, God willing, when he returns.

Well, I just want to make sure, I plan to repeat this website, but for those of our listeners who may have to leave our discussion before it's over, let me make sure

I give you the website of Media Gratiae. That's mediagratiae .org.

It's mediagratiae .org. Yeah, and Chris, I've told people if you want a recipe for perpetual obscurity, just make your website a

Latin phrase that no one can spell. That's what we've done. But you can also go to themeansofgrace .org,

and that'll take you to mediagratiae .org. So we have it in Latin and in English. Great, and so already we know you're not a hyper -Calvinist because you believe in the means of grace.

Some of those who have, unfortunately, throughout history, including even today, taken these precious truths of the sovereignty of God and twisted them beyond what the

Scriptures teach, and teach that there are no means of grace that God uses to bring his elect to a saving knowledge of him.

So we are thankful about that. Now, as I said before, when I first introduced you, we have a tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio where we like to have our first -time guests give an abbreviated summary of their salvation testimony, including the kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any, and the providential circumstances that our

Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and brought you to a saving knowledge of him.

Certainly. Well, we do confess that God used a first and primary cause, but he does use secondary means and secondary causes.

And I was born in Mississippi. I'm the son of a

Presbyterian elder and was raised in a very conservative PCA church and was in so many ways blessed by that.

The pastor that I remember as a young man was one of the first graduates from Reformed Theological Seminary down in Jackson, Mississippi.

So some of your listeners and you sure will be familiar with Dr. Martin Lloyd -Jones' involvement.

Oh, yeah. Not direct involvement, but his influence on the PCA coming to be, as well as R .C.

Sproul's encouraging involvement in those early days.

And so those are two names that I don't think there's ever been a time that I didn't know those names. So growing up in that environment was catechized and taught the scriptures.

But, you know, something sad and really tragic happened. I didn't care.

And so even though it was placed there, and I'm very grateful for that, from as early of an age as I could,

I tried to run as far into the world as I could. And so I was from a very early age in the world, as deep as I could possibly be, lived in the skateboarding and punk rock subculture.

And so as soon as I moved out of my parents' house, I rented a warehouse and built some skateboard ramps in it and lived in that with no plumbing and just, you know, really not who you would think would grow up to make documentaries about the

Puritans one day. But through the Lord's kindness, continually drawing me to himself with the cords of a man, through the involvement of different Christians that he placed in my life at different times, he did allow me to go through a lot of different neighborhoods.

And by that I mean even in the religious world. I went to an independent, fundamental

King James -only school from birth to sixth grade, so I know a little bit about that culture.

I've already mentioned I was in a confessionally -reformed Presbyterian church growing up, and so I know that culture.

And after I got married, before I was converted, I kind of cleaned up and stopped living in warehouses and started thinking, you know, these

Christians, they're pretty good at keeping it between the ditches. And there's probably some stuff I could learn from that, because I'm not so good at keeping it between the ditches.

And now that I have a wife and we have a child, I need to start rethinking some of these things.

And so I met several people who were very, very involved in, you might say, home, lots of things, home education and even home church and a lot of family -integrated stuff.

And so I got to go through that world a little bit and become familiar with some of the good things from that and was involved in some of the early days of the

Acts 29 world. Granted, keep in mind this is all before,

I believe, I came to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. And in all of that, looking for something genuine, looking for something real, and failing to find it, not because, not through the fault of any one or another of those places, but just because of my lack of being able to discern spiritual truths.

And it was actually somewhere around my 30th year that I came to sit under the preaching of Dr.

John Snyder in Christ Church, New Albany, where I'm a member now. And he was preaching for about three years through the attributes of God.

And there was a close application. It wasn't just a heady examination of attributes, but it was a very, this is the

God who is, and he is here, and he knows all, and this is the

God with whom we have to do, and before whom one day we'll stand. And constantly pointed to Christ, pointed away from self -righteousness, and pointed away from sin, and pointed to the

Lord Jesus Christ. And sitting under that ministry, the Lord brought me to himself.

And that would have been, as I said, I'm 43 now.

That would have been somewhere around 13 years ago. And, you know, I say that, again, that I've, in God's providence, he has allowed me to go and experience a lot of different neighborhoods along the way.

I happened to be present in that Memphis crowd back in 2000 when

John Piper preached his famous Seashells sermon. And I remember being gripped by the reality of that and thinking at the time, you know, this is the most punk rock thing

I've ever heard. Because he is saying, look, don't fall for it.

They're trying to sell you this American dream of, you know, two cars, two TVs, and two

Cadillac cars, and it's worthless. You know, live for eternity. And I thought, yeah, man, that's right.

And then went on with my life, you know. But along the way, all of that, you know, there was an old

Puritan, and I don't remember who, said that good teaching to young people is like laying up a cord of wood and then praying that one day the spark of regeneration would fall upon it and that it would catch fire.

And so there were so many good influences along the way. And coming to Christ and coming to understand and experience regeneration later in life set me on a path that I wanted to make these truths known.

And so how do you make these truths known? Well, I talked with my elders and expressed that desire, and they said, well, that's a good desire, the

Bible says, and we're happy that you've talked with us about it. And so we recognize some abilities of teaching, perhaps, and so we would like you to – we'll give you some opportunities to guide you and for you to teach, et cetera.

And they pointed me toward taking some seminary classes. Well, seminary classes are quite out of reach for a 30 -year -old father and husband who has to work for a living.

And so I went to work for a large organization in Tupelo, Mississippi called the

American Family Association. Oh, yeah, I'm very familiar with it. Yeah, so they're very kind to men who want to pursue seminary.

They'll work with you on your schedule and that sort of thing. And so I have a background in – well, as I said earlier, my background is in skateboarding, but I have a background in graphic design and that sort of thing as well.

And so I went to work there as a graphics guy, and they heard

Dr. Snyder give a talk, and they were very interested in what he had to say.

He said that it is possible for you to believe in God and to call that God, you know, the

God who has a son named Jesus and to say that you even believe the Bible, but that what comes into your mind when you think of that God can be so far from the reality of the

God who is, the only God who is, that we can be worshiping an idol unaware and that an idol cannot save you and that Christians are to be those who turn from idols to worship the true and living

God. And so that was, I think, a bit unsettling and a bit challenging for the person there at AFA who heard it, and he said, wow, you should do a

Bible study on that, and we'd like to produce it. And Dr.

Snyder replied, well, you know, we don't have anything to show a video Bible study on in my church.

You've probably got the wrong guy. We don't preach and pray and sing, you know, and he was not looking for the limelight in any way.

And so they pursued him about that for the better part of a year and a half,

I believe. And in the meantime, I went to work there. And so after being there for a little while,

I was tasked with making a video -based Bible study with my pastor, and that is the first Behold Your God study.

So that would have Richard Owen Roberts and Paul Washer and Conrad of Bayway and a couple

Welshmen that we know well, Andrew Davis and the late Afion Evans, as well as Jordan Thomas in Memphis, Tennessee, and Anthony Methenia, who was a pastor here at Christ Church UAlbany for years before moving up to Radford and pastoring the work there.

Yeah, Paul Washer's pastor. That's right, yeah. How'd you like that job, America? To be

Paul Washer's pastor. I wonder if he does a lot of sweating when

Paul is there in the pew staring at him while he's preaching. Yeah, well, you know, if anybody's met

Anthony, it's probably right the opposite, honestly. Yes, he's a very humble guy and I really enjoy interviewing him as well.

And I'm looking forward to seeing him again at the G3 conference that's coming up in January.

He's one of the many speakers. That's a little past testimony, but that gets into how quite unintentionally the work with Mediadrapier was begun.

And whenever I feel like I'm in way over my head, which is every day, I literally respectfully remind the

Lord that I do believe that he initiated this work. And if he initiated it, it must be because he is infinitely more zealous for his namesake than any of us could ever be on our best day.

And that he'll have to not only provide for it, but continue to direct and show us what it is that he would have us to do.

Amen. That's when that started. And we do have something in common. Back in the 70s and early 80s,

I was very much involved in the punk rock scene myself, although I never dressed like one.

It was kind of interesting. I, even in those days, had long hair, did not have pins in my face or a mohawk or any of the garb that you often see punk rockers wearing.

And today, I guess most people see them in films from back in the 70s and 80s.

But it may interest you to know, I don't know if you recall a punk rock band called

The Dictators. Do you remember The Dictators? I actually do, yeah. My punk rock scene knowledge goes pretty deep.

The only reason I bring up The Dictators is that I don't know where he is now. I hope that he's still following the

Lord. But the drummer for The Dictators, Ritchie Teeter, became a born -again

Christian. And I know that in the 1990s, he was a drummer at a

Christian Missionary Alliance congregation on Long Island. And I've met quite a number, not necessarily professional musicians in the punk rock world, but I've met quite a number of people who are very actively involved in punk rock music who have become

Christians. It's interesting. It really is. Me, too. That's so interesting.

They are really one of the first New York bands in that scene in the early 70s.

I have been very... Look, kids, I'm not telling you to go to Hot Topic and buy a uniform.

That's probably the most anti -punk rock thing in the world. The most punk rock thing you can do is think for yourself and don't follow the crowd, but to follow

Christ. It's interesting how many former punk rock fans that I have met and know have become very, very conservative pastors.

That's right. Funny things happen when you start thinking for yourself. In my experience in meeting all these men, and I'm sure you've had the same experience, there are some very similar things that are encouraging.

That scene will not abide by any rock stars. If anybody starts to take themselves too seriously, then they're sort of voted off the island, so to speak.

Nobody that I have ever... You think of men that people would think, Oh, he's the great man.

Men that God has used, men like John MacArthur and the others, and they are the humblest.

They're there just, No, I'm here because I want to be. They don't think of themselves or act like rock stars in any way whatsoever.

When I say, tongue -in -cheek, that it's a very punk rock thing, I do mean that it's just very...

These guys are guys who are down here with the rest of us, and there's a reason for that.

The Lord has humbled them before He's used them in the ways that He has. But there are some analogies that would probably be lost on 99 % of the people that I talk to on a regular basis, but I'm glad that you see those.

And I'm sure that you are like me, when we'll be sometimes watching television, and all of a sudden, they're playing an old punk rock song from the 70s that the vast majority of people watching that commercial would have no idea where that song is coming from, especially millennials.

You're like, Wow, that's the Buzzcocks. I can't believe they're playing an obscure band like that in a commercial. Yeah, I know.

But also, we have a similarity in that I have a background in art. I'm an art major, although after my graduation from college,

I did not really pursue actively that field and got immediately involved in advertising, which led me to being in the radio industry, which led me eventually to be the host of my own show.

But I did at least... I have one thing that I'm very happy about that I produced as an artist, and that is a cover for one of James White's books,

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. I designed and created the cover for his book,

Dangerous Airwaves, Harold Camping Refuted and Christ Church Defended, and I also came up with the title for that book as well.

Awesome. Now, that's the one with the radio on it, right? Yes, and believe it or not,

I took that artwork, and I created a giant patch for a jacket that I have on the back of one of my jackets, and I gave as a gift the same jacket, of course, a different size, if anybody has ever seen me standing next to James White.

I gave him a jacket with that same patch on it, and he said to me, Wow, I really love it, it's beautiful, but thanks for making me a target for the police wherever I go if I'm wearing this.

Oh, that's funny. But I want to remind our listeners of our email address if you have a question.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com

Please give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

One quick question, since you are from Mississippi, do you know my friend

Cary Kimbrell? Yeah, I actually do know Cary. I've known him for a long time.

I wouldn't say that we get to see each other very often, but I met him,

I think he was given an address at a Constitution Party rally that I went to that would have been 15 or better years ago.

And we have some mutual... I have a dear friend, a fella called Les Riley, who introduced me to Cary, and I believe they still are in contact fairly regularly.

Yeah, I was at the Deep South Founders Conference last year in Laurel, Mississippi, and found out that in all of Laurel, Mississippi, there is no taxi company.

No, that's for sure. You can't Uber, and if you walk down the street, they'll look at you funny, too.

But I was shocked, I was absolutely shocked, being a

New Yorker, a native New Yorker, I was shocked that there was, or is, an absolutely phenomenal

Italian restaurant in Laurel, Mississippi, that Cary and his wife invited me to, to join them my last evening in Laurel.

And what a spectacular restaurant. When he invited me to an Italian restaurant, I'm like, oh, no.

This is going to be a nightmare. And the place was better, perhaps, than any

Italian restaurant I ever went to in New York, because one of the reasons is the guy that owns it is from Italy.

Yes, that helps. We try to keep that quiet. We want people to have the view that they have of Mississippi because it keeps people from moving here, and you can afford to live here still, and be a non -profit movie maker.

But we like the bad reputation that we have. Hopefully this won't get out, but the truth is that it's really nice down here, and especially up in the northeastern part, where I am, in the

Tupelo, New Albany area. You would be surprised. There's a little oasis of culture right in the middle of the pine trees.

Well, when we come back from our first break, and by the way, folks, don't worry.

I'm not going to... I won't belabor any rabbit trails that have nothing to do with our subject.

I just wanted to have a real conversation with our guests for a little bit before we started our theme on the

Puritans, and on this documentary, Puritan. But send in your questions, as always, to chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, and please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages with more on the

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I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, and my friend Chris Arnzen and I are excited to be attending another

G3 conference together in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, January 16th, through Saturday, January 18th, on a theme that is vitally important to all of us,

Worship Matters. I'll be on the speaking lineup with Eric Thomas, Joel Beeky, Paul Washer, Steve Lawson, Phil Johnson, Tom Askel, Votie Balcom, and the world -renowned preacher, teacher, and author,

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Did you know that all believers are priests? In 1 Peter chapter 2 verse 9, the Apostle Peter describes

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Visit CitizenPriest .com today. Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with about an hour and 20 minutes to go is my guest that I've been waiting to interview for a while.

His name is Matthew Robinson and he's the director of Media Gratte. We are addressing the phenomenal new documentary that they have created,

Puritan, All of Life to the Glory of God. If you have your own questions, submit them to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com As always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. And we do have quite a number of people waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

But before I go to any of our listeners, Matthew, if you could tell us, with all the information available on the

Puritans that we have access to, what was the catalyst for you saying,

I've really got to make a major documentary on the Puritans and get it into the hands of people who not only love them, but those who have really little knowledge of them other than perhaps some stereotypes?

Sure. Well, I think there are two ways of approaching that. One is, personally,

I have benefited so much from reading RHB and Banner and the other reprints.

RHB being Reformation Heritage Books? That's correct. I happen to be in a church where not just the pastors, but the people in the pew read the

Puritans regularly. We're not talking about an all -high intellectual church.

We're down here in Mississippi, and it's a great mix of blue -collar and white -collar and intellectual, but these are people who love the

Lord Jesus, and they've found that these old books, once you get used to the language that's being used, et cetera, are really helpful in helping you see

Christ in a clear way. And so that's been my experience reading them for the last 10 to 13 years.

The immediate impetus is that Dr. Joel Beeke reached out and asked if Media Gracia would be willing to partner with them in this great endeavor, and you nailed it.

What we want to do is be an on -ramp for people who have not read the

Puritans and either they've never considered it, or when they would consider it, they would think, well, that's probably either so intellectual or so irrelevant to me and my circumstances that they just wouldn't actually take that first step to pick up those books.

So we wanted to provide it as a great on -ramp for anyone to be able to say, well,

I want to know Christ better, and these men knew Christ well, and they were entrusted by and large with the gift of being able to articulate the truth that has been revealed once for all in His Word, and so I want to get help from these men to know and love

Christ better. Could you tell us who were the Puritans? And I know that people, even people that I've interviewed who have knowledge of the

Puritans and have even written about them, there seems to be differences of opinion on who the

Puritans were. Some folks that are Puritan enthusiasts like to isolate those who rightly should be given the title

Puritan to those from Great Britain. For some reason, they don't include people here in the

United States, or should I say in America back then, like Jonathan Edwards and so on.

But some folks have a much broader scope of people that they put under the umbrella of Puritans.

Some even include the 19th century Prince of Preachers, Charles Spurgeon, in that category. And so in your mind and Dr.

Beeke's mind when you set out to create this documentary, who indeed, in your opinion historically, were or slash are the

Puritans? Well, the way that we approach that in the project, because as you said, it is a view, it is a subject that one could take a number of views on.

There is the, it is true to say that the Puritans, strictly speaking, are limited to a reform movement that happened inside of Anglicanism in the late 16th and 17th century.

And by the time you get to the Great Ejection, and then certainly by the time you get to the

Act of Toleration, which happened in 1689, then that movement, strictly speaking, is finished.

So that's one way to view who were the Puritans. But then in a much broader way, there is something of a spirit of Puritanism, which is,

I think, present in every generation in Christ's Church, who are convinced that the

Word of God is our sole authority and our sole authority for directing how we worship

God, and who look and say, I can see areas where we need to take whatever situation we happen to find ourselves in culturally and more and more conform ourselves to the

Word of God. And that's why I think it's fair to say that even, you know, much later you have men like Edwards and Whitefield, and then in the next century,

Lloyd -Jones, or before him, Spurgeon. And then in our day, you often hear, oh, this man, you know, he's the last

Puritan. What do people mean by that? Well, they mean, here's a man who cares deeply for Christ's Church and longs to see it ordered according to the

Word of God. And Dr. Beeke said something interesting when

I heard one of his messages during the documentary.

He was saying that it's really kind of fuzzy and you cannot make a clear and definite and specific pinpointed time when

Puritanism begins and when it ends. There seems to be more of a gray area on both ends of the spectrum of Puritanism.

Yeah, and, you know, there are men who have studied this and they have their doctorates in this subject, and here

I am, you know, a little documentarian from Mississippi, so I wouldn't want to go toe -to -toe with men who have different opinions.

I think that, you know, I like to give credence to the fact that, strictly speaking, historically defined, you can say that the

Puritans began somewhere around this time, and by the time this time comes, then the movement as a

Reformed movement inside Anglicanism is done. But then again, you know, in a broader sense, there's a sense in which we still have

Puritans walking among us today. We have Susan in Newville, Pennsylvania, who asks,

The common stereotype of Puritans is that they were cosmic killjoys, that they did not believe in having fun, that they always dressed in drab, dark, depressing colors, that they never touched wine or any alcoholic beverages, that they didn't believe in dancing in any occasion, not even a wedding.

What is the real story about the Puritans on those issues? Well, we approach those in the film.

Leland Ryken, who I think a lot of your listeners will know from his book, Worldly Faints, which is a very helpful kind of intro to the

Puritans book, he speaks to that in great detail, having studied it himself.

We do recognize that that's the stereotype. When we travel around to make the film, anywhere we happen to be, if we happen to get in a conversation at a restaurant or in a cab, people would say,

Why are you here? We're making a film about the Puritans. By the way, who do you think of when you think of the

Puritans? People would either say, Aren't those the Thanksgiving people? Or they would say,

Aren't those the people that they had read about, I suppose, in English Lit when they read

The Scarlet Letter? Weren't they those people who were just angry and joyless and severe and fanatical people?

Well, if anything, it has a horrible depiction of the Puritans. It's a scarlet letter. That's right, yeah.

And so even in our tagline for the description of the documentary, it begins joyless, severe, fanatical, haunted by the fear that someone somewhere may be happy.

That's the Puritan reputation. But to what extent is that reputation deserved? And that's really what we try to look at.

I'll give you a spoiler. We don't think that that's altogether fair. Let's say we know.

Here's an example that we could use that is in a broader sense.

We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose.

We know that. But good has to be defined God's way. It's not our definition of good.

Good is defined by God. And so what does it mean that they were killjoys?

Well, as Leland Ryken says in the film, if your idea of getting fall down drunk and setting unclean things before your eyes is fun, or if that's all you know of joy, then certainly they would have been killjoys.

But if joy is the true joy of certainly even in the common grace sense of loving your family and hunting and swimming and lots of recreation that was available to these men and women at that time, art and music even, then they wouldn't have been killjoys at all.

And when it comes to the true and deep joys that only the believer knows, you know, read

Rutherford as he talks about Christ. Read Flavel and some of these other men as they talk about Christ and tell me that they have not tapped into a very, very deep well of true joy.

Now, I know that they didn't have punk rock mosh pits, but did they dance ever? I don't know.

I wasn't around back then. You don't know of any notation of any wedding dances or anything like that?

You know, I just don't know. That would be a great interview question for me to ask sometime.

I don't know personally. Okay. Well, thank you, Susan. And guess what? You have won a free digital copy of this documentary.

And what does he need to do? Well, actually, you don't need to do anything now because we have your email address. So we're going to email you the step -by -step instructions on how you can start watching this video free of charge in the digital format.

So thanks a lot. Okay. Congrats, Susan. Yeah, thank you so much for participating in today's show.

And by the way, this is a key to or a little hint to all of my overseas listeners who get depressed that they can't ever win any of the books that we give away on Iron Sharp and Zion Radio because of the shipping costs.

When they mount up, we have so many listeners overseas and in Canada that the shipping would be astronomical if it's all added up together if we were giving away and shipping out books and DVDs and CDs and Bibles to everybody overseas who sends in questions.

So today, we're not going to have to be concerned with that because we're going to be emailing you the documentary.

So I strongly urge our overseas listeners to send in a question if you have one. And that's chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com. We are now at our midpoint area of the program that requires of us the longer -than -normal station break.

We apologize for those of you who get impatient with this break, but this is a required break of Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, who during this break air their own public service announcements to localize

Iron Sharp and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, which is a requirement of the FCC to localize their programming.

So while they're airing their own local public service announcements, we air the ads that are heard globally.

I urge you please to make wise use of this break. I ask of you to please write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them, which means they will likely, more than likely, remain our advertisers, which means that we will more than likely remain on the air for a longer period of time because we require the funding, the financial support of our advertisers to exist.

So please encourage them to stick around by patronizing them as often as you can. Also, send in your questions about the

Puritans to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, and about this documentary specifically.

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors. Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharp and Zion Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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Got to tell you, for my money, Chris Arnzen's radio program is just the best.

Iron. Criticizing Iron. I think that's what it's called. This is

Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV, with Phil Johnson of Grace to you, inviting everybody to come to the

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It's great to see him there. You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place, which is a highlight to me.

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If you live on Long Island, or if you're visiting the metropolitan New York area, I invite you to join us for worship at The Haven on Sundays at 4 .30

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p .m., 33 Bayshore Road, Deer Park, New York. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

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That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. I'm Dr.

Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

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That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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Solid Rock Remodeling, bringing new life to your home. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Ironson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Before we return to my guest, Matthew Robinson, director of MediaGratia, who is discussing the new video, or the new documentary,

I should say, that has been produced by MediaGratia. Puritan, All of Life to the

Glory of God. Before we return to that discussion, I just have a couple of announcements to make regarding upcoming events that I hope you attend.

The first of which is going to be taking place Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th in New York City, my old stomping grounds.

I am looking forward to once again attending the Foundations Conference, which is a conference hosted and orchestrated by sermonaudio .com.

And what better time of year to spend time in New York City than the

Christmas season? I am really looking forward to being in Manhattan during the Christmas season. And, of course,

December 19th and 20th is considered a part of that season. And they always have a phenomenal lineup of speakers, some of whom have even partaken, or participated in,

I should say, in the documentary that we're talking about. This year, the

Foundations Conference includes Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, founder of One Passion Ministries, Paul Washer, Reverend Jeff Thomas, who

I received one of my favorite commendations from,

Reverend Thomas, for the interviews that he has conducted on this program. What a precious brother in Christ he is.

And speaking of modern -day Puritans, Reverend Armin Tomasian. I know that he is probably unknown to many of the listeners in our audience because he is a young man, a young pastor, but he is absolutely extraordinary.

And when I hear him preach, as I did at the last two Foundation Conferences, I feel like I'm sitting in the church of a 16th century

Puritan. I mean, he's just extraordinary. And he's going to become a household name, I guarantee it, among Reformed Christians, anyway, over the next decade.

Richard Caldwell Jr. and Andrew Quigley are also on the lineup. I have not yet heard them preach, but since SermonAudio .com

selected them, they must be excellent. If you want to join me, by the way, this conference is restricted solely to men in ministry because they can only fit less than 200 people in their venue.

So, if you are a man in ministry and you want to join me this December 19th and 20th in New York City at the

Foundations Conference, go to thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com.

Then, in January, from Thursday, January 16th through the 18th, which is a

Saturday, I am going to be, God willing, manning an exhibitors booth once again at the

G3 Conference at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta.

I absolutely love this conference every time that I have manned an exhibitors booth there. Something extraordinary has happened to bless me and my life and also my radio program, and I invite you to join me there so that you can also receive a blessing.

This January, the theme is on worship matters, a very important topic in the church.

And the speakers, a really incredibly long lineup of speakers who are also amazingly gifted brothers in Christ, and some sisters too.

We have, again, Dr. Stephen J. Lawson speaking at the G3 Conference. We have the aforementioned

Anthony Mathenia, who is the pastor of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia.

My dear friend since 1995, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. Another dear friend of mine who has been interviewed more than anybody else on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Phil Johnson, who is the executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.

Derek Thomas, a world -renowned Reformed preacher, teacher, author, and conference speaker.

My friend Dr. Tom Askell, the executive director of Founders Ministries, which is the

Calvinistic ministry in the Southern Baptist Convention. My friend Kosti Hinn, who is the nephew of the notorious heretic and charlatan

Benny Hinn. And Kosti doesn't mind me saying that because he has renounced and repented of his

Word of Faith past, the heresies of that movement, and he is now a Reformed Baptist pastor and cessationist in Arizona.

The ad that you've heard by Dr. James R. White is a little outdated now because when Dr. White recorded that,

Kosti was still pastoring in California and since then has received a call to a church in Arizona.

And one of the really exciting additions to this conference that you may have heard in the ads before the break here,

Dr. John MacArthur himself is going to be there as well. I would be excited to go to this conference if it was just John MacArthur, but there are many more speakers, even more than I listed.

So if you want to join me there, Thursday through Saturday, January 16th through the 18th at the G3 Conference 2020 on the theme,

Worship Matters, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com. And I strongly advise you, as I have been saying, if you have a business or a parachurch ministry or an event or something else that you want to promote to the body of Christ to people in large numbers,

I strongly advise you not only to register to attend the G3 Conference, but register to have an exhibitors booth just like I will be manning at the

G3 Conference. Because every year they have over 5 ,000 people there, and this year with John MacArthur on the lineup,

I think, I am strongly confident, they're going to have over 6 ,000 people there. So I would register for an exhibitors booth quickly because they're going to run out of room for the booths a lot faster than they run out of room for people sitting in the audience.

So if you want to register either just to attend or to also have an exhibitors booth, go to g3conference .com,

g3conference .com. And some way, somehow, please let them know that you heard about them from Chris Arnsen on Iron Sherp and Zion Radio.

And as I say this, I realize that I accidentally omitted my friend Todd Friel, who is always a phenomenal guest on Iron Sherp and Zion Radio, with the ability to combine uproarious laughter and humor with very serious topics of doctrine and theology.

A very difficult task for people, and Todd pulls it off. Last but not least, if you love

Iron Sherp and Zion Radio, you don't want it to disappear. You look forward to the guests and topics that we feature very often that are never heard anywhere else.

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There's nothing about my radio show in the God -breathed pages of the canon, other than the title,

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Go to ironsherpandzionradio .com and,

I'm sorry, send an email, I should say, to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com

and put advertising in the subject line. If you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church and you're not even prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against God.

Sorry to insult you, but that's true. If you need help finding a good, solid, biblically -faithful church,

I may be able to help you because I have lists of biblically -faithful churches all over the world, and I have helped people all over the world find churches that they have joined or they have visited during vacations or that they have recommended to family, friends, and loved ones who are without a church.

So please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put

I need a church in the subject line. And I thank a listener in Bristol, England, who has sent the most recent request for a church.

And I assure you, if you're listening, I will get to you, God willing, with a good recommendation as soon as possible.

Thank you for submitting that request. It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put

I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question for our guest,

Matthew Robinson, who is discussing the new documentary produced and created by Media Gratia, Puritan, All of Life to the

Glory of God. It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com. We've got a lot of listeners waiting for their questions to be asked, but I want to make sure a very important question is asked that we would be greatly amiss not to ask.

All of Life to the Glory of God is the subtitle of this documentary,

Matthew. What exactly is meant by that in regard to the Puritans? Sure.

Well, the Puritan era, it was, in some ways you could say it was the next generation after that great generation of the

Reformers. So, during the Reformation, the five sola were established.

And in many ways, the Puritans were just trying to work out the five sola in every area of life.

So, having come to settle on justification by faith.

Now, what does it look like to worship God in our churches? What does it look like to live in our families and to work in our various callings and occupations to the glory of God?

And so, that I think is the reason that we chose the name, the subtitle for the film is,

I think that's an umbrella that could be put over the Puritan era. You have a group of men and women who are trying to think through, how do we live every area of our lives, all of life, to the glory of God?

Now, let me ask you a question before I go to a listener question. Or should I say, let me ask you another question before I go to a listener question.

I know Brethren who I love, I respect, I even love much of their preaching and teaching.

But there are some, I think, that take the subtitle of your documentary,

All of Life to the Glory of God, and I think that they twist it in a way that gives them a salved conscience to reject the relative principle, the regulative principle of worship that the

Puritans championed. And what I mean by that, I have heard from, and I don't want to trash these

Brethren, because I love a lot of them, so I want to make that clear. But some of them will say, all of life is worship.

When you go golfing, that is worship. When you create a painting, if you're a gifted artist, that's worship.

When you cook for your family, that's worship. And they will go on and on, and I understand that there is a lot of truth behind that.

But I would disagree that you could actually categorize it in the same way as what is meant by worship in the gathered corporate assembly of the body of Christ.

Because then, obviously, everything is fair game in a worship service, in violation of what we've been discussing about the regulative principle.

You might as well stretch a badminton net across the sanctuary and let people play badminton while preaching is going on, and somebody thinks that's ridiculous.

I'm sure that's going on somewhere. You don't do that in your church? I appreciate the question.

And people use that to include dance in the worship service, and of course they'll allude to David dancing as a biblical text to give them liberty to do so.

We could go on and on with the additions to worship services that those that love and adhere to the regulative principle of worship would be very disgusted by, for lack of a better term, and that might even be putting it mildly.

But anyway, if you could respond to that. Sure. So again,

God is the author of all things, and you could take the example of love.

Love has a lot of definitions in our day, but God, being the author of love, defines what love is in 1

Corinthians 13, 4 -8. And so if you don't have what God describes as love, you may have a fine thing, but you don't have love.

The same would be true of marriage. The same would be true of any other thing that the Scripture especially speaks explicitly to.

And so worship, while I appreciate many of the brothers who do hold to what you have described, which we would call the normative principle of worship, that as long as there's nothing in the

Bible that forbids us from, say, having a puppet show or doing interpretive dance in the corporate worship, etc.,

then they feel that that's fair game and that they can worship God how they want to worship

Him. We are confessional men. We come to the Scriptures, and we believe that we see there the principle that God has said how

He wants to be worshipped. And we see examples, Nadab and Abihu come to mind, where God is worshipped sincerely,

I would say, with sincere effort sometimes. And that worship is rejected because God has the right to say how

He wants to be worshipped. And this is a subject that we go into in the film. We explain the regulative principle of worship, which just very simply is that God has said what the elements of public worship are and what

He desires for us to do, and that we're not free to innovate.

Innovation in religion, we believe, is a bad thing, coming up with something new. So we do deal with that in the film itself, and to show that the

Puritans were champions for going into these Church of England churches with the swinging incense and so many other elements of worship beyond just the plain worship of God with preaching, prayer, singing, the

Lord's Supper and baptism, and fellowship of the saints. And they were all in favor of reducing it down, reducing worship to the simplicity of the

New Testament. Excellent. And by the way, I have on occasion, for funerals and weddings and so on, been inside of Roman Catholic Church buildings.

And by the way, folks, for those of you who don't know, I was raised Roman Catholic, eight years an altar boy, and so on.

But I have been tempted when I pass by those areas that I used to man, as an altar boy, lighting candles for people, so that their prayers would somehow be magnified to the saints that they were praying to.

Even as a little kid, I scratched my head when they switched from candles to light bulbs, that you would press a button and a flame -shaped bulb would begin to flicker.

Even as a kid, I started to wonder, wow, this doesn't really seem to be very religious.

This is weird. Of course, neither is lighting a candle going to give you greater access to God.

But anyway, I have often wanted to put a sign beneath those candles, in loving memory to Nadab and Abbai.

For those of our listeners who are unfamiliar with that story, they were consumed by flames for offering creative incense to God during worship.

That was not manhood. Yeah, Leviticus chapter 10, you can go and read about what a very innovative church launch service can look like when you make it up as you go along, and God is pleased with that.

Yeah, and it's quite chilling because, you know, I don't know if they had any evil intent or any kind of disrespect intended when they did that.

But it's interesting also what happened when the ark was toppling over, and when a hand was reached out to steady that ark, the person was struck dead.

But we have some questions here that I've got to get to.

Very good ones, actually. We have Mary in Cork, Ireland, who has two questions.

The first is, how did the Puritans think they could hasten the day of Christ's return?

I wasn't knowledgeable of that fact as being a universal belief amongst the

Puritans. I don't know if Mary's correct on that, but was that a commonly held view, that they could themselves hasten the day of Christ's return?

Well, I think as we approach any question where we say, how did the Puritans—we have to remember that's almost like saying, well, they weren't a monolithic group.

So you couldn't say, what did the Baptists think about this, or what do the Presbyterians think?

Because there's clearly a difference of opinion and a difference of conviction when you get into the

Puritans. We have Sunday school lessons that come along with this, the Puritans on marriage, the

Puritans on work, the Puritans on what have you. And we try to constantly acknowledge that it's not strictly accurate to speak of the

Puritans on, but there would have certainly been Puritans who felt that they could hasten the day of Christ's return.

I'm sorry to disappoint your lovely caller from Ireland, but I'm just not familiar with that.

Okay, yeah, because you could correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a strong post -millennial understanding of eschatology with the

Puritans? I know that Ian Murray, who to the surprise of many post -millennialists—Ian

Murray himself is an amillennialist, by the way—but he wrote a book called The Puritan Hope that post -millennialists just love and devour, and they assume that Ian is post -millennial also because of the fact that he gives this post -millennial understanding derived from the

Puritans in that book. But were they predominantly post -millennial, or could you even fit them in a category like that back in the day when they were dominant?

Well, yeah, it was that generation of men who wrote the great confessions—the

Westminster and the Savoy and then the London Baptist Confession—and enshrined there in Reformed Orthodoxy the amillennial position.

And so while there were many who, I'm sure, held to a post -mill view, and then certainly in the generations after, you have

Jonathan Edwards, who is living in the day of revival, and he looks around and thinks, this must be it, you know, the millennium has come and things are going to get better and better.

I'm not sure. You know, I just preached at a men's retreat this last weekend in Manchester, Tennessee, at Encounter Life Baptist Church there, and one of your advertisers,

Jeff Rice, with Post -Tenebrox Lux, was there, and we spent a good bit of time there just talking about the

Lord Jesus. He's a post -mill guy, and I told him I'm a very optimistic amillennial.

I'd love to be wrong. I'd love for things to get better and better until Christ comes. But, again,

I'll have to take the I'm just a documentarian card. And, you know,

I am careful to some degree not to color the answers that we try to pull from these men.

You know, you can look at the list of the men and women that we interview based on their expertise, and I don't share those honors with them.

So, I do have the benefit of hearing what they say, and I do like to read

Ian Murray and others, but I just don't know. Well, here's another, the second question that Mary has.

I'm not familiar with these two historical figures either, or I shouldn't say either. Maybe you are.

You haven't heard the question yet. Well, I am not familiar with them. She asks,

Do you have Ian Murray's phone number? I think

Mary should write a book. She writes in some really brilliant questions. That is, it is. I believe, were those men

Anabaptists? I don't know. I know that a lot of,

I mentioned in my intro that I grew up in the Presbyterian church, and I could tell you,

Chris, the scariest day of my life was realizing that I'm a Reformed Baptist. So, I know that a lot of my ancestors who have been

Presbyterian all the way back into Scotland, as far back as we can trace, administered a third baptism to those with whom

I now share a theological conviction. So, you know, they would say the first baptism was when they were born.

The second was when they were re -baptized under the conviction that the Scripture teaches the baptism of disciples alone.

And then that third baptism was when they were apprehended by the government authorities and drowned in the river.

So, I'm not sure if that may be related to the question that she's asking.

But I'm going to go to seminary real quick and then come back and try to answer some of Mary's questions.

Well, that actually leads me to a question of my own. Are we not in danger when it comes to any historic figure or figures or people groups from Christian history when we give a falsely universally pristine image of them and we do not ever mention the warts and mistakes and sins that they participated in?

In fact, Dr. Joel Beakey, when he preached at one of the Banner of Truth conferences where I was present, he actually had a message that you would not expect from Joel Beakey.

His message was how not to imitate the Puritans in preaching.

So he was actually, I don't know if that was the exact title, but it was basically the theme of it was things that you should not imitate about the

Puritans when it comes to preaching. Yeah, I remember that address. Don't have 15 points with 32 sub -points under each.

Well, something even more horrible that some of the Puritans were guilty of was, and you could correct me if I'm wrong, did they not, on occasion,

I'm not saying this was a widespread thing that was universally done, but did they not even execute their brothers and sisters in Christ who were

Credo Baptists, believers in believer baptism only, and I'm thinking of particularly in Rhode Island and so on.

Or Massachusetts, I mean, I'm sorry, not Rhode Island, Massachusetts. Well, the killing was, it went both ways, and it was among brothers, and there is a quote, and I don't want to make it canonical, but it's one that has been referenced a couple times in conversations that I've had from the great

John Owen, who became a, I don't know, it couldn't have been

Owen, was it? There goes any credibility for this quote, because I can't remember if it was

John Owen or not, but I believe it was, who has supposedly said that the smell of the death of Presbyterians was a sweet aroma in the nostril of the

Lord, and so, yes, there were, the best of men are men at best, and the thing about blind spots,

Chris, is that you can't see them. They are blind spots, and so we try to deal with that in the film.

We don't want to be guilty of hagiography to say, oh, these men, they were the best men, the most

Catholic men they've ever lived, and they had no issues that we could learn from. One of the reasons

I think it's so beneficial for us to study Church history is so that we can learn from the mistakes of our brothers that have gone before us and not repeat those mistakes.

And so we deal with that issue. One of the things that we hear about a lot in our day is the issue of slavery and, you know, can we even listen to the

Puritans if they were participating in the African slave trade? Historically, that's a bit anachronistic.

The African slave trade was not really up and rolling full steam in the

Puritan era, but certainly in the era afterward with Jonathan Edwards.

We have Dr. Piper in the film speak directly to that. Many of you, if you know

Dr. Piper, you know his love and appreciation for Jonathan Edwards, and he speaks very frankly about how he comes to deal with the fact that this man that he knows is telling him some true things about God and who

God is. How do you reconcile that with the blind spot there of owning another human, or at least owning the labor of another human?

And so these are things that we try to deal with as honestly and openly as we can, and I'll tell you the truth, brother,

I am completely prepared for people to say that we're social justice warriors on one end and on the other end to say that we're just a bunch of white nationalists.

And I think if we take arrows from both sides, then we're probably doing something right.

Well, thank you, Mary in Cork, Ireland. And keep your eye open for the email that you'll be getting with the instructions on how you can view the documentary that you are receiving free of charge, thanks to the generosity of our folks at Media Gratia.

And we're going to go to our final break right now, it's going to be a lot more brief than the last one, and we will get to as many of the questions that we have still waiting for us as we can before the time elapses.

But if you have a question of your own, and God willing, we can squeeze it in, if you want to get in line, send it in immediately, because we're rapidly running out of time.

It's chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com. As always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And don't go away,

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Christian Books at CVBBS .com. Just a thought. And we're now back with the final segment of our show, and we have a number of questions.

We'll try to get to as many as possible. We have, let's see here.

We have John in Tucumcari, New Mexico.

And I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing that city. Tucumcari, Tucumcari. But anyway,

John says, What did you encounter or learn during the production of the Puritan documentary that was an unexpected blessing?

That's a great question. Well, to go to all the little places,

I mean, this is not the first project that we've done. You know, we travel a good bit with the projects.

During the Logic on Fire film on Martin Lloyd -Jones and the Bible study that I've mentioned with the

Beholders of God study, we get to go to these places and see where the

Lord has worked so mightily in the past.

And so this was no exception to that. It was really nice to be able to travel with David Woolen from Reformation History Books and my other co -producer.

David was a co -producer of the film, and then Stephen McCaskill, the director. We logged a lot of miles and spent a lot of time.

And it is encouraging to remember that these are not legends. These are not stories that people tell around the campsite.

This is the story of a living God who has a habit of interjecting himself into time and space for his own namesake and for his glory.

And so there was a real sense of stirring to plead with him to remember his name and reputation in our day to continue to raise up men who were zealous for the truth.

The interviews were just lovely. Many of the men we've interviewed in the past for other projects, one of the men who we interviewed for the first time was

J .I. Packer. And so when we first started to talk through, well,

Dr. Beeky, who would you like us to talk to and what would you like us to talk to them about?

Dr. Packer's name came up very early on, and so we gave him a call.

And he said, well, yes, that sounds very interesting, and that's something that I would like to be a part of.

And we said, well, that's wonderful. When would you like us to come? Meaning between, say, now and next year sometime.

And he replied, well, I'm thinking Thursday. And so we had to figure out a way.

If Dr. Biz was on Tuesday, I think, or Monday in the week. And so I'm in Mississippi, and at that time

Stephen McCaskill was in Canada. He's now down here with me in Mississippi working side -by -side at Media Graphic Day.

But we had to figure out a way. If Dr. Packer tells you to come see him on Thursday, then you go see him on Thursday.

So we had to find some quick flights up there. But we picked him up from his house, and he spent the whole day with us just talking about his own life and how he'd been helped by the

Puritans. And it was just a really amazing time to spend time with him. He did his doctorate on Richard Baxter in the 1920s.

And I sort of foolishly asked him, well, Dr. Packer, will you need to hold any notes? And he said, well, because of this macular degeneration in my eyes,

I can't read. So no, I'll not need any notes. And then he proceeded to give all of this information about Richard Baxter as though he had just turned it in the week before.

It was an amazing experience to spend time with such a gentle and godly man as Dr.

Packer. Not that he would want us to make much of him, and we don't want to make much of men regardless, but historically,

Dr. Packer's use and involvement in this reformed resurgence that we seem to be enjoying in our day is undeniable.

So we got to have some great conversations about Dr. Martin Lloyd -Jones that don't make it into the

Puritans. But I had questions about his interaction with him in the so -called 68 controversy back when there was some difference of opinion between those two dear brothers.

And to hear his opinion on those things now, they say that hindsight is 20 -20.

That was just a fascinating experience. So it'd be hard to narrow it down to one thing, but it really has been a blessing to me to be able to be a part of this project for the last couple of years.

Here's a J .I. Packer quote that I have very frequently given to people that I know who are getting married.

And this is the quote from J .I. Packer. The Puritan ethic of marriage was first to look not for a partner whom you do love passionately at this moment, but rather for one whom you can love steadily as your best friend for life, then to proceed with God's help to do just that.

I love that quote by J .I. Packer. We have, let's see, Murray in Kinross, Scotland.

And Murray says, With more limited means of communication, were the works of the Puritans readily available and much used amongst their peers, just as much as they have been used since?

It would surely be a great encouragement to us to know that some of these works were actually highly beneficial to other

Puritans. Yeah, that's a great question and would be worthy of looking into.

I think it's significant to point out that in the time of the

Reformation, technology developed this little invention called the printing press, which, in an allusion to previous conversations we had, there may have been many who said,

Oh, I don't know about this newfangled printing press. This may be something we need to stay away from. But it was undeniably the means through which the

Lord used to disseminate Reformation ideas, not to mention his own word as the

Word of God was translated into English and sent around. And so certainly, you know, in the generation that followed with the

Puritans, the ability to get their own sermons and writings and that sort of thing out existed.

I know that during times of persecution in the early era, really before the

Puritan era starts properly, you have some first flames of men who were interested in seeing

Reformation come to England, who left England under persecution and went and spent time with some men like Heinrich Bullinger and John Calvin, and so took personal advice from them.

And so certainly their reading or their writings must have been read by these men before they went and sought them out, you know, on other continents.

So that would be a very interesting thing to study. And I agree it would be very interesting.

It would be encouraging to know that it's not just us who benefit from them, but their own peers would have benefited from one another.

This last question is going to involve a quick answer. This is from Linda in Hilltop Lakes, Texas. Does the

Puritan documentary speak of Puritan women like Ann Bradstreet?

What was life like for Puritan women, their happiness and family marriages and church life? You know, we have

Michael Haken who gives a whole session on Puritan women,

Catherine Willoughby and Ann Bradstreet. So Michael Haken and Joel Beakey both speak to those women as kind of the prototypical

Puritan women, and we do deal with Puritan family. So since it's a quick answer, you'll just have to use that code and go check it out for yourself.

Yes, and all of you who have written in questions will receive the link to watch the video or the documentary free of charge.

Thank you so much, all of you who have participated in our program today. I want to thank you, Brother Robinson, for being a phenomenal guest today.

I want to remind our listeners that your website is MediaGratiae .org. I want to remind you to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater