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October 23, 2017:
Tom Ascol, Executive Director @ Founders Ministries & Senior Pastor @ Grace Baptist Church of Cape Coral, FL, who will address:
“Letting TRUTH OFFEND Without Adding OUR OWN OFFENSIVENESS!”
Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host Chris.
Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio.
Wishing you all a happy Monday on this 23rd day of October 2017. I'm so delighted to have back on the program a dear friend who is one of my favorite guests also a Phenomenal preacher that I am eagerly looking forward to hear preach again This January at the g3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia, and we'll be talking more about that in a bit.
But I am referring to dr Tom Askell who is executive director of founders ministries and Senior pastor at Grace Baptist Church of Cape Coral, Florida today. We are going to be addressing the theme Letting truth offend without adding our own Offensiveness, and that's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio.
Dr. Tom Askell.
Thank you so much Chris. I'm glad to be back with you.
And in studio with me is my co-host the reverend buzz Taylor and it's once again good to be on with you Tom. And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
That's CH r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. And please only remain anonymous if you're asking about a personal and Private matter that would compel you not to identify yourself.
Perhaps you even disagree with your own pastor on An issue so you'd rather not identify yourself and that is completely understandable. And perhaps you're a pastor and you disagree with your own denomination or your own fellowship or brotherhood.
Well, we will respect your wishes and not identify your name. But please otherwise just give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA before we go into this a Very important topic a topic that I have addressed on a number of occasions on iron trip and Zion radio.
But I think it's always good to hear something as important as this again and perhaps from a different person from a different point of view different perspective. But before we go into letting truth offend without adding our own offensiveness.
Tell our listeners if you could especially For the sake of those who have not yet heard you on iron trip and Zion radio because it seems we get new listeners every week. Tell us something about founders ministries.
Well now also tell us about Greece Baptist Church of Cape Coral, Florida.
People who I came church, nobody wanted. I was a pastor nobody wanted.
You know, I was laughing over your last comment so you were a match made in heaven.
Trying to be faithful preaching the gospel and amen.
We'll be giving contact information for your congregation and for founders ministries towards the end of the program but this Discussion that we're having. I Think that we all need to be reminded about this issue of letting the truth offend without adding our own offensiveness.
We have to be reminded about it because it seems that Christians fall into one of two extremes very often you have one extreme where you have Bullheaded Unpolite or impolite Rarely aggressive individuals who?
Have a certain agenda in regard to theology or practice in regard to their Christian faith and they they push it down people's throats with a lack of humility and grace and with a lot of Perhaps a divisive Agenda or mentality.
And then you have on the other extreme something that perhaps is more dominant today I think it's the more dominant problem when within mainstream evangelicalism is That you have people who are far more concerned over offending others than they are over offending God and They're far more concerned over offending of people human beings than they are over violating the scriptures or preserving the truth of the scriptures and You know, we and in fact even individuals may be on both sides of those extremes at different times depending upon what the subject is or Dependent depending upon who they're talking to they might treat their own family in a different way than they are treating their neighbors or or what have you but Tell us why?
You as a Southern Baptist, especially where today even though this was not the case a hundred years ago when Calvinists seemed to dominate the Southern Baptist Convention. In fact the as you have already addressed on the program the the entirety of the Southern Baptist Convention was founded by Those who are committed to the doctrines of Sovereign Grace but today you are those who believe in the doctrines of Sovereign Grace are a minority in that denomination and you know in the midst of being vilified yourself and Being slandered in regard to theological matters and doctrine and so on.
It's it's I'm sure a difficult task to maintain that balance of Standing up for truth without being nasty mean-spirited Vindictive etc. If you could tell us about your own experience as a Southern Baptist pastor.
And I've been on both sides of that I said experience hard-hearted. You can deny altering thought. The mysteries of this Bible have to believe that to go to anyone. Especially to my brothers and sisters now.
The the the passiveness with which people Basically very often will hide their their beliefs they will Let conversations come and go and Never even bring up unique things that may divide them from other Believers.
And and also I mean even worse than that is when people Don't even share the gospel with with anyone because they're more concerned either about offending those around them or perhaps even more concerned about themselves becoming a laughingstock or somehow perhaps Losing some benefit in this life.
Perhaps you might even lose your job As a result of your beliefs. Now, I'm not saying that of course We who are Christians should be stealing time from our employees employers, I'm sorry by Using our the hours that we are hired to work to evangelize.
I'm not talking about that, but sometimes people Might be just so offended because you are not in lockstep with the leftism of our day and age you may Be and you should be as a Christian opposed to abortion and and Opposed to homosexuality and things like that and your employers just may be infuriated and He may may either not treat you with the Respect that an employee should be treated with but he might even fire you.
But when it comes to these things We in our day and age at least in America we are living in a rather comfortable existence we are not as some of our brothers and Sisters are in the Sudan and other parts of the world who are being tortured and murdered for their faith.
We can be cowards over such.
Infinitely less serious issues can't we. I do think it comes right back for anybody to not Opportunity and we have a listener in.
White Plains, New York. RJ and our RJ wants to know is it true as many Armenians in ministry claim that Calvinists too often are dishonest when they are applying for positions in pastoral oversight at other congregations.
They are doing so in stealth and hiding their Calvinism only to spring it upon the congregations later. Do you agree with this kind of behavior and what should be done about it?
First of all, let me say that I do not agree with that kind of behavior. Done that so every time you have a conversation You turn to Calvinism and then on the other hand where so you're being dishonest.
Here's the reality with many churches. It's getting better. Do not have theological understanding to have up and about and no way to engage that conversations with people. It's almost like they wanted to talk about was Calvinism on the other hand.
They don't bring it up. The committee doesn't bring it up. And though I'm not surprised if it doesn't come up and it's not a big issue That a guy doesn't bring it up.
And of course Intentionally hiding What you believe could be A suicide mission as far as your pastoral career because you may wind up voluntarily jumping into a snake pit for lack of a better term and you're just going to be attacked every way you turn and it could be more of a problem for you and your life and the life of your family as a minister than then Being more patient for the correct or the the appropriate the appropriate Church who has a theological match for you to come about.
We have a question from David and Ada, Ohio.
I have been studying 2nd Peter chapter 2 12 but these like irrational animals Creatures of instinct born to be caught and destroyed. Blaspheming about matters on which they are ignorant will also be destroyed in their in their destruction.
Concerning the blasphemer. How would you deal with them? 2nd Peter chapter 2 12.
To 12. And could you just repeat the last part of the question?
Concerning the blasphemer. How would you deal with them?
Right. And we have a similar question, I believe.
From CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York. CJ says when we are in the presence of unbelievers in social settings perhaps family gatherings are we as Christians to constantly correct or Even lovingly rebuke those around us when they use the name of the Lord in vain.
When they say things that are blasphemous when they say things that are crude, perhaps even sexually. How often are we supposed to sit around and correct people when they are not even regenerate and we are not their pastors.
That's a good issue, too. On those we need to try to get extra largely has to find at least an open door leave it a door. I'm bothered by this. Not because I'm a sexual person. I'm bothered by this.
Well, thank you. CJ and Lindenhurst, Long Island keep spreading the word about iron sharpens iron radio on Long Island and beyond. We're gonna go to a break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own as.
R.
J and CJ did RJ from White Plains and CJ from Lindenhurst. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris a are n is e and a gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.
Don't go away. God willing. We will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.
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Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on WL ie radio www .wl ie 540 a .m. Dot-com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.
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Pastor Bill Shishko whose voice you just heard Will be the keynote speaker this Thursday, October 26th 11 a .m. To 2 p .m At the iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon. This luncheon is absolutely free of charge.
There will be free food Provided by firehouse subs and Carlisle and wenger meats and ice here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania and Not only are you going to be fed spiritually by pastor Bill Shishko and physically by firehouse subs and wengers meats and ice, but you're going to be leaving that facility that day the Carlisle fire and rescue banquet hall with a heavy sack of free books Donated by nearly every major Christian publisher in the United States and the United Kingdom.
This is all free of charge. There's no hidden agenda. There's no ulterior motive. Nobody is going to give you a sales pitch for anything and this is the tradition that was began or begun by my Late wife my precious late wife Julie who went home to be with the Lord in 2011.
She began These pastors luncheons or at least she came up with the idea for them in the 1990s. We continued that tradition until she went home to glory with Christ and and then after she entered into eternity I picked up the mantle about two years later and relaunched those luncheons and hopefully God willing we'll continue to do so as long as I have air in my lungs and a beating heart and I hope that as many of you listening who are men can attend in fact.
Since this is the largest venue that we've ever used and we have plenty of room. We've extended the RSVP deadline to this Wednesday night and Any man who is a listener of iron trip and Zion radio whether you are a pastor or not? you may register as long as you would like to head out to Carlisle, Pennsylvania, wherever you're from and We would be happy to allow you to join in the festivities that day.
So just send me an email to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris a RN Z and a gmail .com and put pastors luncheon in the subject line, and we look forward to seeing you. If you just joined us our guest today for the full two hours is dr. Tom Askew executive director of founders ministries and Senior pastor at Grace Baptist Church of Cape Coral, Florida.
We are addressing the theme Letting truth offend without adding our own Offensiveness and our email address if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Ch r is a RN Z n at gmail .com and only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter we have a listener in Lagos, Nigeria. Osanachi and Osanachi says great topic given the hyper sensitivity of our day.
There are those who in a bid to not offend suggest directly and indirectly that believers Should numb the truth and then there are those who really want to speak truth. But lay so much emphasis and approach e .g. the tone of one's voice Written or verbal but looking at our Lord in a good number of situations and The likes of John the Baptist one gets through one gets the sense that there was a Reliance on the spoken word as a hammer and an instrument sharper than any two-edged sword.
And not so much on the sensibilities of the recipients. Now I am in no way saying that our Lord was insensitive or that we should be but I am basically asking is Should we not be thinking and focusing on speaking the truth in love?
Obviously as it is in Christ and not how a pair of ears will feel. Because they're adverse to God's Holy Word in which case we become prone to watering down his word.
There's a long answer, but you're not able. They should be able to. Not try to shave off any of the and the reverend buzz. Taylor has something to say.
I think especially as a pastor because um, I had an experience where I listened to a lot of my Recordings of my earlier preaching and the impression I got, you know, I was teaching the word, but I was thinking well Why do I sound like I'm so mad at my congregation?
I'm I'm yelling at them and and you know, I came across James 317 that says but the wisdom from above is first pure then peaceable. And I like oh my gentle reasonable full of mercy and and good fruits unwavering without hypocrisy and you know that that Transformed my preaching right there because it's like yeah, I had a whole different view of it that yes.
You know Paul said, you know, you preach with doctrine, but he also said patience because it's it's required. You're talking to people who are just as slow to receive as I was, you know.
Well, I admire you for going back and listening to early sermons. I don't. I don't think I've seen sufficiently enough to be warranted having to do that for penance yet.
But while while we have that thought buzz I know that you Are a graduate of Bob Jones University and that you have gone through Quite a development in theology since then and you are not only reformed but much to my dismay Presbyterian.
But you from time to time you have contact with some of your old classmates who? Still have held on to an anti Calvinist Viewpoint not only a non Calvinist one, but one that is very hostile towards your beliefs.
How do you handle those discussions without? Blowing off steam by you know, raising your voice or being You know, perhaps prone to mockery or something like that. How do you prevent that?
Well, I had a crisis experience at one point where I was discussing the the doctrines of grace and It was with a particular girl that I had worked with and I I remember we were we were getting, you know into a heated debate over it and I caught myself yelling and I thought wait a minute.
What it's not a personal offense against me if she can't see it. And I went back to her a few days later and I you know said to her, you know. Like I just want to tell you, you know, my my I was totally out of line then.
You know by letting anger get into the whole situation and you know a few years later She started talking to me at work once about the doctrines of grace and I'm like, wait a minute. You you got it. But yeah, but yeah, I caught myself and that that made me stop and think you know because of the fact that I do deal with a lot of my former classmates and it is difficult and I Mean, they just are bullheaded and you know, it's you have to deliberately Watch your own self, you know I have to be aware that that is my tendency and to watch out for it before it flares up.
Yeah, dr.
Tom don't we often forget that it is even grace that opened up our eyes to these things and we sometimes Develop a haughty or self-righteous or superior attitude. When the doctrines of grace are supposed to do the exact opposite of that bring us to our knees in humility.
Dreams are like a blind man who's been given sight.
You know. You've been to though Chris since you brought it up Chris. Okay, I didn't bring this up. But since you did I'll go ahead and latch on to this but going through ministerial training. Maybe time you can tell me you've also been through ministerial training and you know I've said to a lot of people when you go to ministerial training you see it all the kind of people that you're dealing with there that are running around correcting everybody and all and.
You know Paul said That there are some who preach Christ out of strife and I used to question. Well, how do you preach Christ out of strife? Well, I certainly when I think back I've seen a lot of it where.
There are a lot of people in the ministry simply because they have a chip on their shoulder and it's it's an opportunity to stand In front of a congregation and yell at them. Hmm like they're the big boss, you know, and there's I don't know you've probably seen a lot of that yourself though, right?
I wish I could tell you that I've been free from doing any of that. In this conversation the true gospel and I'm acting like a jerk. You know, I walked away from that resides in me and I hate it. So here we are confessing these things to Chris now.
We Have.
Arnie and Perry County, Pennsylvania. Who says Jesus it seems had a much harsher way of dealing with false religious leaders than he did. With those that were considered the pariah of society like prostitutes and thieves and and others.
With overtly wicked behavior. How do we apply that same pattern of behavior that Christ seemed to demonstrate to our lives today?
Now.
In regard to that even there wouldn't you have different approaches for instance? You may have a very well intentioned pastor who has just been Taught incorrectly. He may have been raised in a certain denomination or Religion that has anywhere from a Mildly to a damnably heretical view of certain things.
If you're gonna have a cup of coffee with this individual or lunch or or some kind of a Interaction with them isn't there a difference where you might have An opportunity to to speak the truth and love to someone who is Teachable who is respectful to you etc, unlike the Pharisees obviously.
If you may have the same kind of a meeting with a leader or religious leader or a allegedly Christian leader who is openly denouncing biblical truth and That there is there is a Different kind of a scenario there, isn't it?
But and especially if that person is trying to Seduce people out from your own flock into this heresy. Oh.
Yeah, completely. Those are Same gospels if I'm not seen. Yeah, I think that's an important.
We have to realize also what our our motive is. I mean if if we're trying to convince them of greater truth. Well, it's gonna be different than if we're just trying to win an argument and a lot of it has to do with you know.
Am I just am I speaking Christ out of my own personal pride or am I actually, you know in defense of truth? For truth's sake.
Yeah, that's right. I I have found in myself and one of the things I try to fight against it. It does live in to give up and just quit being concerned about winning arguments. Yeah, I hope it's true. I don't care if I never win another argument.
I really do want to win come to know the truth be set free by the truth and be established from In the truth never bowed to Jesus and so I'm trying to win those people.
We have to go to our midway break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for dr. Tom Askell our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.
Only remain anonymous if it is about a personal and private matter over which you were asking. When we look forward to hearing from you and we'll be right back. God willing after these messages from our sponsors.
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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man. If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church.
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Well, first of all, let me remind you about the Iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon this Thursday, October 26 11 a .m. To 2 p .m. At the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
Keynote speaker is Pastor Bill Shishko who is on the faculty at the Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary In Taylor, South Carolina, he's also Regional home missionary for Reformation Metro, New York and a retired pastor of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Franklin Square, New York.
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It's on the theme for still our ancient foe referring to Satan from that classic Reformation hymn by Martin Luther a mighty fortress. The venue is Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania.
And the speakers include Kent Hughes Peter Jones Tom Nettles a mutual friend of mine and our guest today dr. Tom Askell Dennis Cahill and Scott Oliphant. If you would like to register go to Alliance net org.
Alliance net org click on events and then click on Quakertown conference on reform theology and then coming up in January. An event that our guest. Dr Tom Askell will be speaking at is the g3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the theme knowing God a biblical understanding of discipleship.
January 17th will be exclusively a Spanish-speaking edition of the conference, but from the 18th through the 20th. That will be an exclusively English speaking Edition of the conference featuring not only our guest. Dr. Tom Askell, but Stephen Lawson Vody Balcom Phil Johnson Keith Getty HB Charles jr. Tim Challis Josh Bice James White Anthony Mathenia Michael Kruger David Miller Paul Tripp Todd Friel Derek Thomas Martha peace and Justin Peters.
If you'd like to register go to g3 conference comm G3 conference comm and please let them know as well. If you register that you heard about that conference from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio I do intend to be at all of those events with an iron sharpens iron radio Exhibitors booth, so I look forward to seeing you there.
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And Again, send those emails to Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line. We are now back to our discussion with dr Tom Askell who is the executive director of founders ministries and senior pastor at Grace Baptist Church of Cape Coral, Florida.
We are discussing letting truth offend without adding our own offensiveness and The email address for a question if you'd like to send one in is Chris Arnson at gmail .com and we do have a question from Christopher in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York and the question.
Involves, let's see. Where is his question? Here it is. It's involves. Matthew chapter 5 22.
Of.
Christopher says when Jesus Christ says but I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the Court and whoever says to his brother you good-for-nothing Shall be guilty before the Supreme Court and whoever says you fool shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
How does this? Teaching of Jesus which seems very clear. Stand compatible with what the Apostle Paul said to the Church of Galatia. He seems to use some of the very language that Jesus prohibits. Question.
I don't know that I'm and preaches to you a gospel other than be a nap and that we should take serious arms even Claiming the one status he mind himself. We're gonna do you think that?
The Apostle Paul had a liberty to treat Professing believers in a way that we do not have I mean because of the fact that he wasn't an Apostle I.
Think. Certainly the Apostles were admitted. I can't make we have.
Let's see here we have John and Bangor mean who says Are you as disturbed as I am that we who are in the Reformed community? Continue to have battles over areas that are secondary or tertiary to the point where we divide and Splinter in the midst of knowing that we already are a tiny minority on the Christian landscape.
Are we not diminishing our own influence and voice in the world by these constant divisions?
Yes, I think in the main that is certainly true. I'm not I haven't said that. I agree completely. Yeah.
I've said before on this program That reformed people have a very good Attribute typically in that we are meticulous About being correct when we exegete passages of the Bible and we are typically more prone to be very very careful not to isajeet and we are very Protective of truth within our own congregations and within our own fellowships and very quick to point out error when it rises or Raises its ugly head.
But because of the fact that we are sinners and We are not yet in glory where we are going to be perfect and we were going we are always gonna have right motives that that can be in a bad combination when it lends itself to being Overly Judgmental and persecuted persecutory against Those who disagree with us.
Would you say that that's a correct summation of what the problem is? Yeah, I agree. Amen and Just a curiosity. This may be somewhat off topic, but it just popped into my head because of something I just said there seems to be a Division amongst reformed people as to whether or not we should ever use the term sinners.
For those who are in the body of Christ that sinners is exclusively a label for the unregenerate. But I don't know how to speak normally Recognizing that I am a sinner. Well that I sin. I should say that without using the term.
I'm a sinner. That is what do you have a side in this fight?
Well, yeah, I agree with Martin Luther. Don't have any problem with that. There's more to be. I'm a justified to it one day. I'll be yeah, I can't help but shout. Amen to.
What John Newton said? Towards the end of his life. I remember two things that I'm a great sinner and Christ is a great Savior.
Right we have.
Let's see here we have Bebe in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania who said if you could sum up in five areas. That are matters to die for and matters to Be willing to speak boldly to those in disagreement to the point of even Breaking fellowship with them.
What would those five matters be?
Well, certainly beneath and beyond them as well I can say who treats the Bible as Just not written and I'm assuming you would share the Apostle Paul's conviction over the gospel because the Judaizers.
As far as we know agreed with the Apostle Paul on most important doctrinal issues except they added circumcision to Faith as a means of justifying them. That's right, that's true. Thank You. BB continues spreading the word about iron sharpens iron radio in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and beyond.
And. The issue of being nice. Is there a command in Scripture to to always be nice. Because it seems that those that are on the the end of the spectrum that are Sacrificing truth at the altar of niceness seem to think that that is one of the the top priorities of our Behavior as Christians that we are always to be nice.
But I mean we already have discussed Areas in the scripture where Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul And others were not really nice to people. We're not supposed to always be nice. Are we?
No, we're to be kind with you are being kind and loving you will be regarded as not.
That's right. If you're if you're actually concerned about where people are spending eternity. Sometimes you have to use the analogy of Of a parent and a child like are you is it better for a parent not to frighten his child?
By refraining from yelling at that child when he's sticking a fork in an electric socket or wandering into a.
Highway, okay. My wife found a child who didn't want a shot or didn't want to treat that Donna would say well.
Amen and.
I don't think that we could learn a lesson even though we learn many good things and very many very valuable things in regard to doctrine and theology from one of The great Christian heroes of the 20th century A .w. Pink.
Don't we think we need to also learn a lesson in a negative sense from him. That he as godly as he was and as much truth and wisdom as he had gleaned from Scripture he fell into a sin towards the end of his life where he Thought so highly I think of his own understanding of Scripture that he isolated himself from the rest of the body of Christ that he Basically it appears was viewing as in a hopeless state and That were they were so far Delved into heresy that he didn't really want to have any communication with the the larger body of Christ.
Isn't that something that we have to be very careful about. And then do you think I'm correct in the way of I've assessed pink's latter days.
Well, you know, that's a complicated issue. I I certainly would not come not justify. There ought to be a humility and a willingness and I want that and I can learn from him even though.
Yeah, in fact, I have to admit that throughout my Christian life and I was saved in the 1980s. I Have met many people Who were outside of my theological circle? Who Were far Superior to myself in in areas of life that are important and vital areas of life for Christians, I mean and if we're gonna be honest, there are going to be people outside of our orbit that are Better husbands than we are.
They're better Parents, they're better children. They're better siblings. They're better citizens. They're better neighbors. There there are all kinds of ways that we can learn from our brethren even if we disagree with them theologically.
The last thing you said Tom got kind of muffled. I didn't hear the last thing that you said. Amen and we're going to our final break right now and now's your opportunity. If you haven't already sent in a question I would strongly urge you to do so very quickly because we're rapidly running out of time.
Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. God willing. We are going to be right back right after these messages. So don't go away.
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CV BBS comm and make sure you mentioned that you heard about the sale from Chris Arnson on Iron sharpens iron radio. We are now back with our discussion. With dr. Tom Askew who is the executive director of founders ministries and senior pastor at Grace Baptist Church of Cape Coral, Florida we are discussing letting truth offend without adding our own offensiveness and.
Our email address if you have a question is Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Chris Arnson at gmail .com and please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.
And dr. Tom as the theme would indicate letting truth offend without adding our own offensiveness if you're speaking the truth from the scriptures and You're not offending anyone that really means that you're not speaking the truth from scriptures.
Am I right? Yes, and in fact, I guess that perhaps I should rephrase something that I said is because you can preach or proclaim truths from the Bible that May not be particularly offensive, but you can't be preaching the whole counsel of God and not be offensive.
Yes, and in fact, I have heard people tell the truth. But they diffuse the power of it by adding certain words or phrases before or during or after. I'll give you an example and I've mentioned this on this program before.
And I know that this may offend folks who really love the ministry of Billy Graham, but I can't help but be reminded of that.
Prayer.
Service that they had at the National Cathedral after 9 -11 and Billy Graham did preach the gospel or Proclaim the gospel at that gathering, but he diffused it of its power because he purposely Diffused it of offensiveness to those who were not Christian simply by saying before his message.
Towards the end of the longer message. He gave when he when he was getting down to the nitty-gritty of the gospel. He said prior to that now, this is for the Christians here today. This is for the Christians even just saying that put everybody else at ease because they were not being challenged to repent if they were Hindu or Buddhist or Muslim or Roman Catholic or whatever background they were from.
This is now he's talking about the Christian God, so I don't have to listen to this anymore and they gave him a standing ovation.
I.
Seriously doubt that they would have get that room would have given him a standing ovation If he was challenging each and every person in that room to repent. Amen, and We have a listener. Let's see. We have Hara.
I'm sorry. We yeah, we have Harrison in Mechanicsburg. Harrison to Mechanicsburg actually is asking about something that you and I briefly touched on before the show. Harrison says. I Understand that there are appropriate times to have strong disagreements Between those whom you love and whom you call your brother.
But don't you think that the divisions that have gone on for decades between those that are Covenant Reformed Baptists and New Covenant Reformed Baptists or New Covenant Theology Baptists has Gone on much too far and the harshness and divisions have cut much too deeply.
Yeah, basically he was saying the issue that we were even talking about earlier before the show.
Well, you said that Richard Barcellos has a new book where he's ironic in regard to critiquing the New Covenant theology. He was our listener. Harrison in Mechanicsburg was saying don't you think that the divisions between Covenant Reformed Baptists and New Covenant Theology Baptists.
Don't you think that these divisions have gotten too deep and heated and Mean-spirited basically is what he was saying.
Yeah, well, that's certain and I'm glad that theology in Commandments see these things to implications.
Well, I've got to get rich back on the program to discuss this book at some point. Could you for the sake of our listeners who are scratching their heads and they have no clue what we're talking about.
Can you just give a brief summary of the divide between?
Reformed Covenantal Baptists and New Covenant Theology Baptists stripes on both sides of that issue. That's right. Let me take. Let me tell you what. I think the nub it does that come down to. Finally Covenant guys would say no and of course.
Our brethren in the New Covenant theology camp one of the reasons they focus in on The Fourth Commandment is because they believe Christ reiterated the other nine commandments in the New Covenant. So it's not like they're lawless.
They're not right. They're not really antinomian as some of our Covenantal Reformed brethren have labeled them. They're not really antinomian because they don't believe in lawlessness.
No, that's true. The nine commandment, of course, there's a there's lots of exegetical Implications that I would like to argue and do argue are necessary. I'd say no, they're not necessary into the condition I wish and that's what able to do this.
I think it is a it's a good combination.
We have an anonymous listener who says. Do you think that there comes a time when folks who are surrounded by people who disagree? Who continually keep the the flames? Fanned when it comes to disagreement and bitterness and division and hostility that those brethren remove themselves from the company in a denominational sense as.
Is the situation with so many of our Reformed brethren in the Southern Baptist denomination? It almost seems like a hopeless cause when you are so outnumbered. Do you think there is a realistic? Possibility that there will be not only acceptance universally amongst the Southern Baptists of Calvinism but that there will be infinitely less hostility where the two forms of theology can coexist.
Know that heaven's going to be sick. You've got within the SBC. I divide us up dictionally non-calvinists. I'm not a Calvinist. I'm being Influenced and denominational non-calvinist convictional Calvinist to cross bridges and so I'm encouraged by that.
That's not to say and you know.
Taking it to perhaps a Situation where the differences are even more extreme. I was wondering and I know that that you you can't give a cookie cutter answer. But I have friends and I've even interviewed men in ministry who are a among a tiny tiny minority of Bible-believing evangelicals in a denomination that is largely apostate like I have friends in the United Methodist Denomination who are pastors who are Bible-believing evangelicals.
I have friends in the PC USA Which is the most liberal of the Presbyterian denominations at least that I know of. I have friends that are in the American Baptist Association, which is the most liberal that I know of as far as Baptists are concerned and you could go on and on.
Do you and an Episcopal? I have Episcopal Friends who are even Rectors who are full-blown Calvinists. Who are 39 articles men who really believe in historic? reformed Anglicanism and they remain within the Episcopal Church that believes in some very horrific and Heretical things.
Do you think that those folks should remain where they are at all?
Yeah, it is complex question. Denomination is not the case. Yeah, and I know that our. I don't know if you knew John Thornberry or no. John Thornberry.
But he was a dear brother in Christ or is a dear brother in Christ. I just haven't had a lot of contact lately with him but he remained in the American Baptist Church for a long time and then he finally said it just he just couldn't tolerate any more and was able to.
Have the church withdraw from that denomination, but remember that I know John and we talked about. I want to make sure that before we.
Go off the air that you have five minutes of uninterrupted time to summarize What you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners in regard to this topic today?
Well, I should God God have the obligation to love. We're called to love even our enemies and those who do that to the truth without being and I know that the g3.
Conference is coming up where I already mentioned. I intend to have an iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth. I know the umbrella theme. The main theme is knowing God a biblical understanding of discipleship.
Has Josh Bice assigned you with your topic yet, or have you chosen a topic yet for the g3?
Yeah, you know Josh and I we have it but great.
Well, I want to repeat the information for those of our listeners who may want to attend the g3 conference is g3 conference .com g3 conference .com that's January 17th for an exclusively Spanish speaking edition and January 18th through the 20th for an English Speaking edition of the conference on knowing God a biblical understanding of discipleship and once again Joining our guests. Dr. Tom Askew at this conference are Stephen Lawson Vodie Balcombe Phil Johnson Keith Getty HB Charles jr. Tim Challis Josh Bice James white Anthony Mathenia Michael Krueger David Miller Paul trip Todd Friel Derek Thomas Martha peace and Justin Peters go to g3 conference .com G3 conference .com and as I always try to remind you, please always Mentioned Chris Arnzen and John iron trip and Zion radio.
When you take advantage of any of the things that we promote on This program. I also want to make sure that our listeners have your website. It's founders org as far as the founders ministries is concerned founders org and the website for Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral, Florida is true grace of God org true grace of God Org, do you have any other?
Contact information you care to give or any other news that you want to give in regard to special events.
And the title again of Richard Barcello's book getting the garden right. Right getting the garden.
So you could go to the founders ministries website for that of founders org founders org and there is a An option at the top to click. It's called store and You will find that book amongst many other Items that you may wish to purchase.
Dr. Rascal it's been such a pleasure having you on the program again. I look forward to you return you returning soon and returning frequently and I can't wait to see you and hear you at the g3 conference coming up in January.
Thank you so much. Chris. It's always a joy ministry and all that you're doing. Oh, it's my pleasure brother.
And I want to remind everybody about the The iron sharpens iron radio pastors lunch and it's this Thursday and as I mentioned earlier Since the venue is so large We do have room for all men in the iron sharpens iron listening audience who want to travel to Carlisle, Pennsylvania wherever you are and the dead.
The new deadline for registration is Wednesday night the 25th of October. The event is Thursday, October 26th, 11 a .m. To 2 p .m At the Carlisle fire and rescue banquet hall in Carlisle, Pennsylvania featuring guest speaker Reverend William Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Denomination and we are also having as our guest of honor Steve bloom who is Pennsylvania State Representative and candidate for Congress.
He is also an unwaveringly committed Christian and Whose friendship I greatly value. I hope that you can join us. Send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com to register Chris Arnson at gmail .com and I hope you all Always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far far greater Savior Than you are a sinner.
I look forward to hearing from you and your questions for our guests tomorrow on iron sharpens iron radio. God bless.