Ligonier’s “The State of Theology” Discussion (Part 2)

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Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, ministry. It�s another Tuesday here. That means at Tuesday guy.

You do more Facebook than you do Twitter, right, Steve? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And maybe that�s why, you know, we have a radio show where I�m mainly the

Twitter person, you�re mainly Facebook. I actually, you know, an unbeliever friend of me the other day, and I guess

I met him a few years ago at a gaming event, and right away he just kind of came on and started saying some things.

And I just said, �Listen, if you come on my page, you need to, you can�t just do a drive -by, right?

You have to, like, have some reasons for what you�re saying.� And, you know, and he messaged me and kind of apologized and stuff like that.

Oh, so he was just driving by and� Yeah, I just thought he�d just give me a little shotgun blast in love. And I tend to call people out a little bit on that.

I�m a little bit patient on Facebook. I try to exhibit some measure of patience.

But I do tell people that I�m not short of, I will block people if they�re just, you know, if they�re just trolling, trolling, trolling, trolling.

The troggs, did they troll? It�s been a long time since I trogged and rolled, so I trolled.

If I were to say to you, Steve, don�t dissipate your virility on fortune -hunting women, promiscuous women who shipwreck leaders, what would you think?

I would think we must be having a massage moment. Leaders can�t afford to make fools of themselves, gulping wine and swilling beer, lest hungover they don�t know right from wrong, and people who depend on them are hurt.

I just enjoy it that he said swilling beer. The next verse in the message,

Proverbs 31, �Use wine and beer only as sedatives, to kill the pain and dull the ache of the terminally ill, for whom life is a living death.�

Who is he? Seriously, how could anybody defend the message, really?

Come on. I don�t know, but I, you know, just reading that, I�m like, ah, brother, give me morphine. I mean, just give me good stuff.

Gulping wine and swilling beer. That could be the new men�s conference title. Did I tell you that it was not that long ago there was a men�s group, and people have freedom to do whatever they want, obviously within the bounds of righteousness and avoiding sin, but the men�s retreat basically said, you know what, we�re serving beer and alcohol here and scotch and all this stuff, just brace yourself type of thing.

That�s going to be included. Unwise. The other thing that I had before we get into our topic,

I found, I don�t know if you�ve gone on vacation lately with the whole COVID thing, and so it�s really been cutting back a lot of vacation people, but Thomas Cook, they have those vacation books that you can read about everything, and they�ve got some dissatisfied customers.

The other day we took a bunch of church people to the ice cream place, and they, in my mind, went overboard on wear masks.

I mean, we�re trying to eat ice cream. You can eat ice cream through a mask. You can swill ice cream through a mask.

Absolutely. Anyway, they just had a few things that they complained to people based on actual trips that they had to actual resorts, and they had actual complaints compiled by Thomas Cook Vacations, and it was interesting.

It said, �On my holiday to Goa in India, I was disgusted to find that almost every restaurant served curry.

I don�t like spicy food.� Don�t go to India, hint.

�The beach was too sandy. We had to clean everything when we returned to our room.� Who knew beach was sandy?

�Although the brochure said that there was a fully equipped kitchen, there was no egg slicer in the drawer.�

I don�t even know what an egg slicer is. Somebody needs to send me a picture of that because I�ve never seen one.

�We went on holiday to Spain and had a problem with the taxi drivers as they were all Spanish.� And then lastly, before we get into our topic today, it says, �We found the sand was not like the sand in the brochure.

The brochure shows the sand is white, but it was more yellow.� I have no comment.

All right. Well, we move from complaints to surveys and polls. Ligonier poll part two, right?

Yes, it is. Yep. And here we go. The state of theology. Would the two senators from that new state be

Democrats or Republicans? I would have to say they�re just fallen.

Okay, so here�s a positive trend that they cite. U .S. evangelicals support is falling for the idea that people are good by nature.

But in the last four years, 54 % would have said that in 2016.

Now only 46 % agree with this statement. Everyone sins a little, but most people are good by nature.

And they think this is a positive trend. I�m like... Steve, tell me about the idea that when you first get saved, of course, you realize you�re a sinner because that�s why you turn to the

Lord for salvation, right? He�s your Savior. And Jesus was your sin bearer and your righteousness earner.

But then you begin to think, you know what, as you grow in the Christian life, you start noticing more sins.

Is there ever a sense that you seem like you sin more as a Christian than you did before as an unbeliever?

Well, yeah, I think so. And I mean, I think that�s not to get too, you know, into Paul�s mind, but I think that�s what he was saying in Romans 7.

I think that�s what he was, you know, saying in 1 Timothy when he said he is the chief of all sinners.

I think this is kind of, I don�t think he really thought, I sin more grossly than anyone alive.

I think what he thought is, in light of what I know, I can�t even believe how much

I sin. I think that�s right. I mean, even present tense, wretched man that I am. Yeah. Right?

When I first was in seminary, and this was not the seminary�s fault, it was my fault, when Paul said I was the chief of sinners,

I�m thinking, wait a second, you know, sinners only use, this is my mistake, it�s only used in the

Bible as a word of characterization kind of thing. And, you know, sinners and tax collectors or whatever.

Paul knew he sinned, right? And once you get Luther�s helpful, simultaneously just and sinful down, justus et peccator, it helps so much.

Steve, can this relate to assurance at all? What do we do with a Christian who thinks they�re sinning more now than they did before and their assurance is shot?

Well, actually, I mean, you know, depending on things, I mean, there could be reason to say, bro, you�re right.

You know, in other words, your life is spinning so far out of control, I think you need to ask yourself whether or not you�re saved.

But for the most part, I think that as we learn and grow and we see, you know, things that we didn�t think were sinful, we come to understand, or things that we weren�t even aware of that we did, you know, things that maybe we said.

You know, I think specifically, one of the reasons I think that marriage is so refining, right, is over time, just being with the same person over and over and over again, you start to see things maybe in them that you hadn�t seen before, but you also see things in yourself, right?

And you see more and more of yourself revealed because you think, how much harder is it to submit to my husband?

How much harder is it to do this, you know, just over time? And so, yeah,

I think definitely there is a sense in which that can contribute both ways.

Because what we also need to keep reminding ourselves is, yes, I am a great sinner, but thank the

Lord that Jesus Christ is a greater Savior. He can, He saved me from all of my sins, the great and the small.

You�re reading my mind because I was thinking of that very thing. Yesterday, Luke, my son, we have a little family text thing, you know, his three sisters, mom, and then

Kim and I. And he said, from Galatians 2 .20, �I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer

I who live, but Christ who lives in me. In the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the

Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.� And then Luke, taking off,

I think, on something that Jerry Bridges taught, here�s what Luke said, �The cool thing about this verse is that it is actually in the context of justification or being seen right in God�s eyes.

He isn�t talking about sanctification or growing in holiness. He is saying, I no longer in my day -to -day look to my own personal performance for my standing with God.

I look to the death of Jesus on the cross.� What a freeing reality to have confidence in the cross.

Also, how ironic it is that knowing you don�t have to obey God to be right with him makes us want to obey

God. Exactly. I mean, if you tie your standing in Christ to your own performance, that�s really tough.

I mean, I�m the� Give it a try sometime. It�s the cure for everything. I�m the hamster on the treadmill.

I just can�t run enough. I can�t do enough. There�s nothing, you know, I�ll be exhausted and realize that I�ve not gone anywhere.

Steve, like, what�s the cure for hedonism? Try it. Same thing with this.

You want to try to make your standing before God based on your own performance? It�s going to lead to depression or self -righteousness or both.

Maybe it�s going to lead to swilling beer. I mean, for me, I know it would be depression, right? But I could see, and, you know, you may have known somebody in your life where you just thought, �Man, why is this guy so arrogant or this girl so arrogant ?�

It�s probably because they think they�re pretty much the rich young ruler. Hey, all those things

I�ve done since my youth. Interesting background, because you just admitted that you would be the depressed type, and I will admit that I would be the self -righteous type.

I just do it on the outside, externally. I�d just be in despair all the time, going, �I can�t.

I can�t move the ball, man. Can�t do it.� Okay. Anything else we got here from Ligonier?

Yep. Yep, we do. Okay. Ligonier is a city in Pennsylvania, but it�s also an organization in Stanford.

How does that work? By the way, it�s a city on a hill. Oh, did you know Worcester�s a city on seven hills?

So it�s better than Ligonier? No, it�s maybe more Roman Catholic than Ligonier.

All right. Okay. Statement. God counts a person as righteous, not because of one�s works, but only because of one�s faith in Jesus Christ.

Now, in 2018, 91 % of evangelicals agreed with that. In 2020, 84 % agreed with that.

Could you slide that over here for a second, Steve? Yeah, sure. Now, Ligonier, I don�t know who made these questions, but if I heard you rightly, let me just see.

God counts a person as righteous, justifies, not because of one�s works. Okay? I get that.

Oh! So I got that down so far. It�s not because the condition or the ground, but only because of one�s faith in Jesus Christ.

And I would not phrase it that way. I wouldn�t either. I would make faith a non -meritorious instrument, and I would make the ground of our salvation based on the work of Christ, because this would, in my mind, have faith, this is an

Arminian way to go about it. The work. That faith is the work. Yeah. In fact, it�s kind of surprising. Maybe the 16 % who disagree are so theologically sound that they�re like,

I must reject that. I can hear the swilling of the beer. Yeah. But I would think, you know, because this seems, this would seem to me to be very ecumenical, right?

I mean, this is, you know, because it�s so open to interpretation either as Arminian or Calvinistic.

And let�s see, you couldn�t, yeah, no, you couldn�t, you couldn�t, you couldn�t get Catholics in there because it would be, you know, by virtue of their baptism or something like that.

Of course we believe that you�re not counted as righteous because of your own works, and you�d be counted righteous because of Christ�s works, and then we�re trusting in that promise of Jesus.

And so I just, that�s the statement number 13. I think maybe that�s why 13 is an unlucky number for Ligonier.

It�s what I used to call when I was, you know, back in the day, slipshod police work. Yeah. When you go to Romans 4 and say, oh yeah, it�s faith, that�s the determinant factor, and it�s not shorthand faith in the

Lord Jesus, the God -man, you can easily fall into the Arminian translation interpretation.

Okay. Now this is a really, this is a good one. I like this one. All right, good. In recent decades, it has been popular to claim that adherents of various religions all worship the same

God. You ever hear that? Yes. Okay. Even if that worship is not offered through Jesus Christ, I mean, it bothers me to hear prayers offered, you know, by rabbis and imams and stuff like that, and we�re all just supposed to applaud that.

The 2020 survey reveals an improving understanding of evangelicals in this, that nearly half of professing evangelicals still affirm some notion of religious pluralism.

Listen to this. In 2016, 48 % agreed with this. 2018, 51 % agreed with it.

Now it�s down to 42%. God accepts the worship of all religions, including

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Well, the world is sure pushing that.

Evangelicals, 42 % today agree with that. Well, when

I think of unbelievers walking in even to a worship service on a Sunday, do they really worship?

If they sing, do they worship? If they give, do they worship? I think it�s blasphemy to think you can worship without accessing

God through the mediator, the Son. I mean, I wonder if we could just modify this a little bit, you know, because it says all religions, right?

So, I wonder if we could include the worship of Baal in there, you know? Yeah, what�s the abortion god?

Starts maybe with an M. Mulek. Yeah. And the Ashtaroth, you know.

I mean, just imagine kind of walking through Isaiah, you know, 42 to 45, 46, whatever, and just all the carvings and, you know, the stones, the wood and everything, you know, you have to prop them up and everything.

And, you know, hey, all religions, including, let�s see, this thing right here.

I�m going to worship him, right? Well, Steve, you know, you do the trick question. Are you saved by works?

You know, yes. Ultimately, Jesus�s works. Do all religions, you know, come to, you know, end up finding themselves in God�s presence?

Yes, right? But as judge, not as friends, right?

It all leads there. All religions do lead you to God, but not through the mediator. I mean, what is the point?

If you just think of things like the Great Commission, why do we have to make disciples? The idea is disciples, what?

Followers, learners of Jesus Christ, not of Mulek or Baal.

Yeah, but Steve, you don�t understand. That Great Commission and make disciples of everything I�ve commanded you.

I�ve commanded them certain things, too, from the Old Testament, Mosaic law and the civil area, so we�ve got to teach not only the

Great Commission evangelism, but part of that is through God�s law in the state, theonomy.

Give me some law. Oh, sorry, that�s different. Give me some law. All I want is some law. Give me some truth, right?

I fought the law, fought the law, and the law won. Okay, now, how about this statement?

This should be like 99 .9%. Gender identity against, by the way, gender identity is a matter of choice.

Yes, that was God�s choice. Pretty slick.

True. And really, Steve, at the end of all this, people hate the sovereignty of God.

Yes, they do. And therefore, if it�s, you know, you look back in your Bible and you see the utter hatred for Israel, why?

Why would they single them out for hatred? Because Israel was the apple of God�s eye, right, as a nation.

Why do people have all this trouble with skin color and everything else and the sovereignty of God?

And here, too, God makes people either male or female. Well, only 22 % agree with that.

In other words, only 22 % kind of go with this, well, you know, it might be flexible. Male and female,

He created them. I just, I can't get over that.

I mean, if you're, a lot of these things, if you're a professing evangelical and you're not really sure,

I have three words for you. Read your Bible, right? If this is confusing to you, read your

Bible. I mean, can you imagine now the state of things? Let's say you've got a two -year -old boy and you've got a five -year -old girl and they're out playing around in the yard and the girl puts down her doll and the boy picks up the doll and runs around because he says, oh, you know, that's what my sister does.

She runs around with the doll. And now you see that as a parent. You go, I think my kid likes dolls. That means he's really a girl.

What does that mean? It's so lame. I have to laugh though, not because, you know, these gender reveal parties, one of them actually may have started a big fire and that's not why

I'm laughing in Southern California. But the, I've heard people say, celebrities say, you know, they're starting to come around to this idea that a gender reveal celebration.

Oh, it's against their. Oh yeah, it's bad. You know, it's so presumptuous that the child should decide, right?

Gender reveal. Well, but, but I mean, that's, excuse me, but it's really no worse than people say, well,

I want my child to choose his own religion. I mean, come on.

Well, when that guy got mad at me here at Bethlehem Bible Church, maybe Baptist Church at the time for our people teaching his daughter that whatever the

Awanis sparky acronym S was sinners. And they all had to say that they were sinners and he hated that.

I calmed him down some, and then he told me the fateful words, but I'm going to let my daughter decide what she's going to believe.

And I thought your stupidity is going to be for her good if we can teach her about the next

S and that's the savior. Is there another S in sparky? Maybe Y is

Yahweh or something. Petey It's just so, you know, part of parenting is protecting your children from folly, right?

Children are foolish. And so, the whole idea, well, you know, my three -year -old said she's a boy now, or my four -year -old said he's a dog now.

I mean, we don't let kids determine what they are. You know, a kid comes home and says, you know, after listening to a couple of kids at school,

I now want to worship Baal. We don't let them do that. Whatever happened to imaginary friends?

Back in the good old days. Well, you were talking about foolish. Yeah. You look at Proverbs, right?

Kind of boiled down, you have lady folly and lady wisdom, right?

There's a wise way to go and a foolish way. And somehow now we've switched those two around.

And I'm thinking, what is going on? The children have wisdom. I mean, really, the children will teach us what they are going to be.

And I'm like, no. I know, Steve, if I am on this hobby horse regularly,

I think there's probably a reason for it. But you know how I'm always after not only myself, but other men for laziness, right?

God says to Adam, work. And so, the besetting sin of most men, if you really think about it, of course, it's unbelief, but it manifests itself in laziness.

So, let's put the parent back into parenting, right? That's really the real issue here.

And it's an insidious system because then you go, well, let the children aside. Oh, good. Now I don't have to do my work.

That's right. It plays right to the laziness of a husband. Well, and it just goes right back to the mom, too.

I mean, moms, generally speaking, in most situations wind up doing a lot of the parenting because dad's away at work or whatever.

So, if you both can just kind of take your hands off the wheel, as it were, and just let the child raise themselves, which

I have to tell you, every fiber in my being just goes against that.

Why? Because I've seen the results and the results are horrible. I mean,

I could name names, but I won't name names. It's just wrong.

And it's really child abuse when you get right down to it. I mean, it is abusive of a child to just let the child determine things for themselves that they ought not to be, that they're not ready for.

Right. Well, you watch these children and when they go their own way, Scripture regularly talks about that's shameful for the mom or the dad or the parents.

That's not what you want. You have to guide them. It is destruction for the child. I know.

All right. Any other thing here? We got about two minutes to go. The last one, pretty easy. Agreed.

It's not that easy. Oh, yeah. Politics and the church. Basically, the idea that people need to,

Christians need to be silent on issues of politics. Only 16 % agreed with that.

Only 16%. So, what do you do when there's a theological issue that has come full circle into the political realm, then you're not allowed to talk about it even for those 16 %?

Yeah, that's pretty, that's kind of crazy. Well, I mean, it's like abortion. Of course, I'm going to talk about abortion. Abortion is an issue.

And the fact that it's a political issue is of really no import. It's a moral issue.

But the idea that there is a party, I mean, I just saw there was a person in the

Tennessee legislature who was kicked out of the Democratic Party because he was pro -life.

Well, you know, people will say, don't be a one -issue voter. You know who says that? Are the people who just, you know, love them some abortion.

Yeah. And so, if you want to be a one -issue voter, great. If you don't want to, I just know that other people are telling you certain things for certain reasons.

Yes, they are. The amount of space in the Gospel Coalition website on how to basically be a

Christian and vote against Trump, that's really what they're trying to do, vote Democrat. Man, there's a lot of,

I guess it's not trees cut down anymore for that paper, but there's a lot of ink spilled. I just can't,

I can't in any conscience whatsoever, vote for somebody who supports the murder of an unborn baby right up until the moment of birth.

And there's only one Democrat I know of with any kind of prominence, and that's the governor of Louisiana who's against it.

Abortion is murder. Yeah. Mike Avendroth, Steve Cooley, God bless you. Trying to be strong for my wife, but I'm just hurting.

You would have the gall to come up to me and say, I don't know if you're a Christian or not because you're not handling this trial right.

But that's what we have now in evangelicalism. It's crazy. Oh, the show's already over. My name is

Mike Avendroth. God bless you. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Avendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's Word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.

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