What If My Pastor Didn't Address Charlie's Assassination Correctly?

Conversations That Matter

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Hey guys, welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast. I'm your host John Harris. I'm going to weigh in real quick on something that is being debated on my social media right now, and that is what do you do if your pastor didn't mention

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Charlie Kirk or didn't mention Charlie Kirk in a way that satisfies you, the way that you think

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Charlie Kirk should be mentioned in church. And there's a few principles I want to give to you that I think can help guide this decision.

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I did say publicly that if your pastor did mention

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George Floyd or preached a sermon about George Floyd, use the sermon time to focus on George Floyd -related narratives, and never repented of that, never apologized, never retracted anything, and then didn't mention

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Charlie Kirk at all, I would find a new church. And the reason I say that is because it's very clear that you have a pastor who's being dragged around by his nose by either the mainstream media or the liberal order, something that is more powerful and more influential than the

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Bible, the Holy Spirit, and probably the congregation has your pastor's attention and has captured his moral sensibilities.

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So many followers of Christ have been throughout history, and even we are today, to conduct religion in your name in a way that masks, ignores, or promotes injustice.

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To where he thinks that he needs to weigh in in the wrong way, weigh in with the wrong narrative on a particular situation, give the wrong interpretation, step outside the biblical teaching to talk about social justice and making sure disparities are done away with, and egalitarian schemes are promoted, and the police are reformed, and buying into what

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CNN told you about what happened with Derek Chauvin and George Floyd, and attaching that to this narrative that the police are quote -unquote racist.

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If your pastor did that, and then has nothing to say about any of the things that have happened over the last week, especially

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Charlie Kirk's assassination, then I would agree it's probably not the pastor that you can trust because his moral judgment is impaired on some level.

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And you need someone who's going to guide you, who's going to apply scripture to your life, to help you navigate your own situations, who does not have morally impaired judgment, right?

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It's really that simple. The pastor has an important job, he's supposed to be keeping watch over your souls, and part of that means you're going to get into moral situations that you need his guidance on.

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And if he is that morally impaired, then he's going to need to, especially after years,

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I mean how long has it been? It's been five years since the George Floyd situation. He's going to need to mature some, and it's going to take years

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I think to probably get to that point. It's going to take some time at least. So that's clear to me, that's an obvious thing that your pastor's on the left, if that's the case, and the left is morally bankrupt.

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So he's on the wrong side politically, and it's now going to affect what he does with the pulpit, with the sacred platform that God has given him.

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Some of you are in that situation, and for those in that situation, I pray for you, I pray that you're able to find a church with a solid

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Bible -believing pastor who is going to apply the Word of God regardless of the situation, regardless of who it applies to.

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I mean the prophets of old were able to speak the truth even when it cost them dearly to those in their own kings, people in their own nations.

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That's the kind of thing we want coming from our pastors. So if it's a conservative quote -unquote leader, if it's a liberal quote -unquote leader, the

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Word of God cuts straight and you apply it. Now I think a lot of you are in a different position than that though.

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Your pastor might just be apolitical, okay? So he doesn't mention much in the way of anything.

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If it's in politics, he just says, turn to the next verse in our study of 2 Timothy, and he keeps it in the text, and he's more of a textual, he's an exegete.

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He's a technician of the text of Scripture. He doesn't really apply it much, at least not to national situations or political situations.

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Now in that case, I think you have a different problem. It may not mean that your pastor's on the left. It may not mean that he's even morally bankrupt in his...

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He may give good advice, let's say, when it comes to marriage counseling and counseling situations in your lives.

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He can clearly see what's going on, and he just doesn't believe for some reason that application should make its way to the pulpit.

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That's a different issue. And in that case, I would have a conversation with your pastor about it, ask him why he does that, why he thinks that way.

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I think most people who do that, they think that they're guarding the sacredness of the pulpit. They are affirming the spirituality of the church, and I totally understand that.

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In fact, I respect that to some extent. But you do have to be able to make application.

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So you do need to be able to take Scripture and apply it to the lives of your people. Now, when you have a large segment of your people that are grieving, and they're legitimately grieving, it's not illegitimate.

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They don't have to be told that they're believing lies, and that's why they're grieving. They're actually grieving because something heinous actually took place.

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Someone who was a believer in Jesus Christ, who preached the gospel on college campuses, was murdered.

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And all the evidence points to someone who was operating from some kind of left -leaning frame of some kind.

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And you might even have people in your congregation who have been somewhat involved in that person's platform, and life, and ministry, etc.

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I think then it's time to at least give a mention, at least acknowledge that there are people grieving.

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If you had a tragedy in your church, let's say it was a church member, and people were grieving, you would acknowledge that at the very least.

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You would give some moral guidance and say, God's in control at the very least, right? And maybe go on and say, we wish for justice in this situation because there's someone who has murdered, and the law of God calls for an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

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And that even predates the Mosaic Law. This is so fundamental to what Christians believe, that murder ought to be punished.

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It's actually a capital crime. And you can talk about that, but at the very least comfort the people who need comforting, right?

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Weep with those who weep, and they're not weeping because of a lie. They're weeping because of the truth of the matter.

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So I think it's the same thing when it comes to a national issue that, I mean, I don't know how many people cried this week.

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I know I had a few tears well up at certain times just because of how egregious this situation is.

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And a pastor is a shepherd. He ought to have a good bedside manner. He ought to be able to tenderly care for the sheep and also take out the wolves when necessary.

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It's a unique calling. It's a unique blend of capacities. And it's a very mature thing that, a very mature role that someone is in when they are a pastor.

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They have to be very judicious on how they handle things and measured. And they need to give the strength that people need.

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They have to point them to where to find it and reflect it in their own lives. And at the same time, they have to cut a straight moral standard and say, this is right, this is wrong.

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And right and wrong are very plain in this situation. So I would have a conversation with your pastor.

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Maybe that conversation could lead to, he's going to now start applying the word of God more and not just being a technical exegete.

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Because, you know, a robot can be a technical exegete. But applying it to particular situations, that's the unique job and the unique calling of an actual pastor who's a real pastor.

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So I wouldn't get all upset right away. If that's the situation you're in, take it slow.

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Maybe you might have to leave. I mean, if he's just refusing to apply the word of God. And if you have a pastor who just avoids partisan things, controversial things, because they're a coward, you have a different problem.

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That's a shepherd who can't use his staff correctly. You need a shepherd who's willing to go after any enemy that would be a threat to your soul or your family soul.

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And a pastor who doesn't want to go after certain figures because it would get him in too hot water is a pastor who cares more about himself than he does his sheep.

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And that's not a real shepherd. So that's a real problem. Now I want to play a little clip for you.

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This is David Platt. David Platt, a very popular pastor, wrote the best -selling book

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Radical years ago. And he's got an influential church in Washington DC. And this is what he had to say about the

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Charlie Kirk situation. I had lunch yesterday with an Afghan sitting next to an

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Iranian sitting next to somebody born in South Korea, next to somebody whose family's from South Asia.

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So we're sitting there at the table and the Afghan shared how he once volunteered to work with the because he wanted to fight and kill

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Americans. Then the Iranian shared how he once volunteered to work with the regime because he wanted to fight and kill

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Afghans. Yet here we all were, sharing a meal, encouraging one another, laughing together, praying with each other, praying for each other.

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I sat in awe of the power of God's love in Jesus to not just turn enemies into friends, but to turn violent worldly adversaries into eternal otherworldly family.

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In a world of senseless violence, praise Jesus for the power of his sacrificial love for us, for giving his life for us, for defeating evil and death, so that we could be turned from enemies into friends, ultimately of God and of each other.

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So God help us to receive your love humbly and to spread it selflessly today in our nation, whatever nation that might be, and among all the nations, wherever, however you might lead us.

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May it be so we pray in Jesus name. Now what you notice there, of course, is he doesn't even mention Charlie Kirk. Now I've covered

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David Platt enough to wonder whether this story even took place, to be quite honest with you, but assuming it did, he's not talking to his church, which is located in the

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United States of America, and is suffering from some real problems and questions right now.

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Does the left want to kill us? How broad is this? I see people celebrating this all over the place.

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They wanted Charlie Kirk assassinated, and now they're saying it's a good thing he was assassinated. There's university professors getting fired, there's anchors, there's a news anchor that got fired, there's people in influential positions that are being exposed because they are celebrating the murder of a good man.

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And the question you have to ask yourself is, do you want a pastor who, when a situation like this comes up, he isn't willing to actually address the situation?

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He sidesteps it, and instead what he does is he talks about, in a vague general way, the kind of peace that Jesus can bring to enemies.

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That's a true thing, but it doesn't address the situation and the questions that the flock is asking themselves right now.

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Here's what David Platt said on Sunday. But particularly amidst the headlines this week about wars or threats of wars to the tragic killings of Charlie Kirk and teenagers in Colorado, to the social media that surrounds all of that, which all elicits so many different thoughts and emotions and reactions for different people of different ages, from different backgrounds, especially here in our church family where so many are involved in politics and national security, so many people experiencing anger, frustration, anxiety, fear, confusion, questions, discouragement, disillusionment, and many more things.

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And the bottom line is we are living in a fallen world that is far from God's good design in the beginning for it.

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But we are not without hope and peace and strength and wisdom that God generously gives to us.

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Okay, so he mentions Charlie Kirk, but it's a word salad, right? It's a passing comment. He doesn't actually get into any of the working issues.

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Why was he assassinated? What can you do as a result of this? What did

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Charlie Kirk stand for that made him a target? There's nothing of substance really in this at all.

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The only reason I know that first clip I played was about Charlie Kirk was because of the caption. It wasn't even because of the video.

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It's just because he didn't even mention him by name, just said yesterday, and this was the day after the assassination, he talked about the tragedy that happened the day before.

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So the only thing, I mean, he's probably talking about Charlie Kirk, right? So this is the kind of pastor who I would say isn't necessarily leading their sheep.

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That's the only message you're getting. There are some pastors out there though who do handle these things well, but they leave the pulpit.

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They leave the Sunday morning for the exposition of scripture and they will do a political thing on their blog or through email or in other channels that they have available to them.

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I would say all of that takes a lot of prudence to navigate. I don't, I'm not here to call shots.

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I'm not, there's no Bible verse that says a pastor must do it this way. I just know this about a pastor.

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A pastor keeps guard over your souls. A pastor has to have moral uprightness. A pastor has to be someone who is a

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God pleaser and not a man pleaser. A pastor cannot be someone who is bought.

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He does not, he's not after filthy lucre. And that would include platforming, okay? A pastor is not someone, as James says, who is going to favor the rich person or the person who is popular, who has the ability to pay the pastor or benefit the pastor in some ways.

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A pastor, when someone comes into the church, the ground is level at the foot of the cross and the pastor is representing the

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God of the universe. It is a heavy calling. It is a serious calling. And if your pastor doesn't reflect that when a situation like this comes up, because a situation like this is a testing ground for that, then maybe you do need to evaluate whether or not this is someone you want watching over your souls.

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And if you passed away, would you want that person to be in the care of the souls of your wife and your children?

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I'll say this in closing though. I know there's a lot of pastors who are nervous though. They're nervous that they won't say the right thing.

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They feel the way you feel about it. They think the way you think about it, but they know there's a lot of anger and they might not want to reflect from the pulpit the level of anger they're going to, or maybe they'll direct it differently.

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They'll say the anger needs to be directed through the wrath of God, channeled through the civil magistrate.

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It's not ours to wield the sword or they'll say something like that. Calm down the temperature here because we don't have the authority, unless you're a civil magistrate involved in the case, to do much about this.

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Or maybe they'll point out something that could be done on a grand level. I don't know what could have been done in this case, punished treason more.

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Although I don't know that that would have done much if this guy was radicalized online. And it's hard on Sunday when you have incomplete information to make those calls.

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So I wouldn't expect a pastor to get into public policy stuff, to be quite honest with you. I don't think that's a fair metric to use.

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And there's pastors who are nervous because they think their congregations expect them to do that. Your pastor is not a political representative of you.

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A pastor, again, is someone who watches over your soul. And he needs to feed you and comfort you and give you resources to help nourish your soul.

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And your soul probably does need to ensure that it is taking into account that the wrath of God is ever present.

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No one's going to get away with anything here. Ultimately, that the Lord in His sovereignty has allowed

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Donald Trump to be the president. And there is a justice system that does want to work to punish this guy.

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Focus on those things, right? I think if your pastor didn't meet your

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A -plus rating on how he handled it, but he at least attempted, I wouldn't leave the church over that.

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And I know there's people who are just fed up. You went through 2020. You're just, you're kind of waiting,

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I think. I think that's what the sense is. You're waiting for someone to betray you. You're waiting for an authority in your life to betray you.

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And the ones who haven't yet, you think will at some point, because so many have. It's a pattern you recognize. It's the owner who picks up the newspaper and every time he does, the dog thinks he's going to be hit because his previous owner hit him.

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You might want to dial that back. It doesn't mean just because so many people failed you in 2020 that your pastor is going to fail you.

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It's not a foregone conclusion. You don't want to be so ready for that to happen that every little twig that snaps, you're in fight mode.

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Make sure that you're taking a breath and you're also evaluating these things and talk to your pastor about it.

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If he's been your pastor since 2020 or you found him and he's been guarding your soul since 2021 or 2022 or 2023, don't just leave at the drop of a hat.

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We live in a society that also I think very easily can leave a commitment and go to an or whether they go to another commitment or not, they might just, it might be the off ramp from church.

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They don't go to any other commitment. They're just not committed. And there's just very low commitment and very high expectations.

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And it's part of modernity. It's part of what we live in. We get instant food. We get instant everything. We can pick up our phone and get information instantly.

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AI has made that even more instant and you can, it tailors itself to whatever you want.

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You can program it. Church isn't that. Church isn't that. It's not there for you and every pastor's not there.

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His job isn't there to say everything that you necessarily want him to say. He's there to say what you need, what your soul needs.

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It may not be the same kind of message that needs to be said by your senator. He's your pastor.

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He's not your senator. So remember that too. So that's my advice as I see this all playing out.

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I appreciate you listening. I just, I pray for our country. Please pray for our country. Pray for the

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Charlie Kirk's family. Pray for Erica and the kids. Pray for our president and for the local officials who, and our churches, you know, our churches are having to deal with a lot of this stuff.

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Security demands, the fear that someone could come in and shoot them. There was a pastor murdered on,

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I believe it was yesterday in California. I think it was that I saw just murdered.

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I don't know what the motive was, but people are scared in this country. And this is a time for Christians to be the stabilizing element.

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We live for something beyond this life. This life isn't all there is. And we have a message of hope.

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We have the gospel. We trust in the Lord. We're not going to be cowering. We don't fear because of terrorism.

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That's the whole purpose of it, right? To get you to stop, to don't go to the university campus. Don't share the gospel.

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Don't share the truth on moral political issues. You need to up the temperature on that stuff.

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No, we're going to share it even harder now because we're not going to be bullied into submission on these things.

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So that's my message. And I'll just want to play this video for you in closing here.

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We have a men's retreat coming up in two weeks. I may change what I talk about because of the situation.

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We'll see. But the main topic is music and masculinity. But I may talk about the situation in the

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United States and practically what can we do? How should we think about it?

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We'll see. Either way, though, we're going to have conversations about it. You're going to want to be around these solid men who are going to be there, men of integrity.

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I always choose people to speak who I believe have very good things to say and have a level of integrity.

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Integrity means so much to me. So come on out September 25th through 28th if you can make it to the

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Adirondack Mountains. We're going to have a wonderful retreat. God bless. It's time to break out your flannels and start driving up to the beautiful state of New York in the

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Adirondack Mountains for our men's retreat. It's September 25th through the 28th.

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And I think this is going to be one of the most beneficial men's retreats we've done. We're going to be talking about music and masculinity.

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That's the theme. Musicandmasculinity .com is the website if you want to sign up. And you don't have to be a musician or even someone who can sing a note.

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You can just be someone who is curious about how music impacts your spiritual life and also corporate worship.

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We've lost a lot, but we can regain a lot. And that's the point of the retreat. It's to equip you and also have a good time.

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We're going to be singing songs around the campfire as well as in the corporate settings. My dad's going to be preaching on Sunday.

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We got a number of pastors coming who all know a thing or two about music. See you then.