Session 7: Jim Osman - Why Do We Care?

Kootenai Church

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

I'm going to bring the filmmakers up on the stage here in a couple of moments to introduce them. But before we do, this is the trailer of the movie that they're working on that we're here to cooperate with.

00:12

If somebody has the gift of miraculous healing, surely all he needs to do is to prove it.

00:22

But let's face it. We've been battling with COVID and the so -called miracle workers went into hiding together with us.

00:34

Cessationism is the view that certain miraculous gifts that stood as signs of an apostle, speaking in tongues, healing, prophecies, interpretation of tongues, gifts like that, ceased with the apostles.

00:49

Cessationism has fallen out of favor because commitment to the authority of scripture has fallen out of favor.

00:56

When you turn on Christian TV, you don't see expositors of scripture, John MacArthur or Steve Lawson.

01:03

You see Joel Osteen, Joseph Prince, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Paula White. That's who you see because that's the mainstream.

01:11

Speaking in tongues, you're going to speak out of your spirit. Don't worry about what it sounds like.

01:19

Our understanding of speaking in tongues must be guided by the scriptures, not our feelings.

01:26

They were known languages that were capable of interpretation and not everybody speaks in tongues.

01:32

If God speaks, it must be infallible, inerrant, and authoritative. And the Lord said to me, will you howl for me?

01:40

I said, don't ask me to do that, Lord. There's no longer the need for the gift of prophecy speaking forth divine revelation from God.

01:57

We have now the whole counsel of God. This word is the final word.

02:06

The apostolic gifts have gone. They were never intended for our generation. We have everything that we need from the

02:12

Holy Spirit today. It's hard to get anyone who's gone through that to come back and take a serious look at faith in Christ, focused on the gospel rather than focused on these phony miracles.

02:38

That looks fun, doesn't it? The actual video won't have that clip of me in it.

02:44

It'll be a different clip. All right, can I have the four filmmakers come up here real quick? And I'm going to have you guys introduce yourselves, talk a little bit about the film that you're making, why you're making it maybe.

02:55

And just so we're clear, one, two, three, number three, he was the one who was supposed to come up with the questions.

03:10

Are we on? Hello, my name is Josh Vandermeer. I am the cinematographer for Cessationist.

03:17

I'm originally from South Africa. That's where I was born and raised, moved to the States in 2004. Married to my wife,

03:24

Anna, and we have three kids, live in the Louisville, Kentucky area. Moved there about six years ago to attend seminary.

03:31

I lead worship at my church most weeks of the month. And I think my chief desire for the film is that it would be a beautiful film.

03:43

It's unfortunate that a lot of Christian filmmaking is known for just mediocre image quality.

03:51

And I really want this to be a striking and beautiful film that puts no other obstacle in people's way other than the gospel itself.

04:00

So a little bit about me. I'm Tim Cannon. I'm from also the similar area, not

04:08

South Africa, apparently. Clearly. I'm from Southern Indiana, but I was told I look like I'm from Idaho.

04:14

So I think I did okay. I am the producer of the film.

04:21

David and I, and Les were the three amigos. But I am the producer of the film.

04:28

I have a wife, Lauren, with four children and one on the way.

04:33

So that's five children, technically. And the sound of David being run over by a

04:39

Kootenai bus was pretty cool. So I appreciate that. He totally ran him over, which is awesome.

04:48

We find this film to be something that is very important.

04:53

And David and I, when we came up with the idea, it was like we have to make this movie. We're only going after the biggest denomination in the world.

05:01

So it's important we get it right. So me writing the questions was contingent upon Jim wearing the shirt that you saw in the trailer.

05:17

The yellow traffic cone shirt, which he has hanging in his office in a frame now.

05:28

My name is David Lovey. I have a son. His name is

05:33

Martin. He's named after Martin Lloyd Jones. And I'm so glad to be here.

05:40

And I just want to say I'm super grateful. All of us are super grateful to your pastor,

05:48

Jim, and to all of the speakers, and to all of you for coming here and supporting this.

05:55

We believe that this is a really important doctrine. And our true hope for this film,

06:02

I know people laugh when I say it, but my hope is that it will be a catalyst for the destruction of the charismatic movement in the world.

06:12

And I believe that the material that we have gotten from the greatest theological minds in the world on this subject really is irrefutable.

06:24

And our prayer is that God is going to use this in a mighty way in this generation to bring people back to a biblical pneumatology, to a biblical understanding of God.

06:37

And so please be in prayer for the filmmakers and for the film itself to be used by God toward that end.

06:46

My name is Les Lanphier. I am the director of the movie. I live down in Florida.

06:52

I haven't been cold for many years. Thank you. I'm also a Presbyterian.

06:58

Any other Presbyterians in the audience? Oh, we got one. There's another one? Where's the other one?

07:05

No, it's just, it's not a popularity contest or anything though. Presbyterians don't raise their hands.

07:13

Good, good point. I've made a couple of movies.

07:19

I made a movie called Calvinist about sort of the resurgence of Reformed theology and like sort of my generation.

07:26

That was a few years ago. And then I made Spirit and Truth, which is about Reformed worship. And now these guys came, they came up with the idea and then

07:37

Josh was on board. So I'm, I'm the latecomer to this party, but they asked me to help out the subject matter, like cessationism.

07:45

I consider myself a cessationist, but I wasn't really that interested. I'm like, I guess I'll help you guys.

07:50

And then I saw the trailer and started working with the material and I sort of fell in love with it. And now that we've been doing all these interviews, it's not only a fascinating subject, but way more important than I would have ever thought beforehand.

08:05

So this, I think it's going to be a pretty great movie. David's got high hopes, the absolute destruction of a massive part of the, what you'd call the

08:16

Christian, Christendom today. So, and Netflix, he wants to win an

08:22

Academy Award, actually. He really thinks that we might win an Academy Award. Spoiler, that's not, that's not going to happen.

08:33

Thank you guys so much. Yeah. Thank you so much for having us. This has been a huge blessing for us. We're getting more content, recording interviews while we're here.

08:41

And that's all because you guys have been so gracious to allow us to come. So, so thank you.

08:46

Thank you very much for having us. Yep. Give the microphone to my wife there. It's good. Thanks guys. All right.

08:53

Will you please turn your Bibles to the book of, yes. Turn your

08:59

Bibles to the book of first Timothy chapter four, please. When my wife eats a meal that consists of multiple courses or multiple items on the plate, she always sort of evenly nibbles away at every portion that's there until she gets down to the last little bit.

09:14

And she will habitually save herself a little bite of all of the things that are on her plate. And then she will always end with a thing there that tastes the best to her, that she likes the most.

09:23

The reason being is because she wants that to be the last flavor in her mouth that just rings with her for the rest of however long she's going to think about that meal.

09:31

For that reason, nobody ever wants to be the last speaker at a conference like this because we know that whatever you walk out of here with, you're probably going to have what

09:39

I'm about to say as the last flavor lingering around in your mind. And given the great content that we've had so far, nobody wants to play mop up as I get to do here this morning or this afternoon.

09:51

1 Timothy 4, I'm going to read this passage and then I'll open us in prayer. Beginning at verse 6, in pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following, but have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women.

10:11

On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness, for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.

10:26

It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance, for it is for this we labor and strive because we have fixed our hope on the living

10:33

God who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. Prescribe and teach these things.

10:39

Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith, and purity.

10:45

Show yourself an example of those who believe. Until I come, give attention to the public reading of scripture, to exhortation and teaching.

10:54

Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you which was bestowed on you through the prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.

11:01

Take pains with these things, be absorbed in them so that your progress will be evident to all.

11:08

Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching. Persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.

11:19

Let's pray. Our great God, it is our desire today that we would, in contemplating all that we have heard to this point, that we would meditate and reflect upon your goodness to us in all that you have provided for us in your word.

11:34

You have time and again cast our affections upon Christ and made us to look upon him and the fullness that is in him, the sufficiency that is in your word, the greatness and the grandeur, the glory of the gospel.

11:47

And so we, having reflected on these things for these last many hours, our hearts are full and we pray now that you would fill them even fuller with a further appreciation for your word and for your truth.

12:00

Help us to think clearly and precisely regarding who you are and what you have said so that we may honor you as you have prescribed that you would be honored and that you would be glorified and receive the glory that you are due for all of your good provision for us.

12:14

In Christ, in whose name we pray. Amen. What I'm about to do is not give you an exposition of the passage that we just read and I say that so that you know that I know that we are not,

12:28

I'm not doing an exposition. So this is a little out of keeping. It's going to be somewhat similar to what

12:33

John did in that I'm going to be trying to take the concepts and the ideas that we have had laid out here in this conference and bring them all together.

12:42

It's my job with the last session to kind of tie a bow of sorts on what we have gone through to really answer the question, why do we care about this issue?

12:52

This conference has had a purposeful and a very discernible structure. If you've been observing, you may have noted what it is that we have done and how we have done it.

13:01

We started out in part one by defining cessationism and Kevin did that by laying for us a good foundation of what it is that we're talking about and what it is that we are not talking about.

13:11

We sought to answer, he did I should say, some of the common misunderstandings of the doctrine of cessationism.

13:18

And then Justin gave us an overview of some of the false teachers and leaders inside of the charismatic movement in its more modern resurgence in the late 1800s and early 1900s, some of whose doctrines and practices and teachings and followers still influence continuationists today.

13:36

Then in part two, we took a more theological approach as we approached the New Testament to show that the scriptures themselves in the way that they describe the miraculous gifts, particularly and singularly the gift of miracles, shows that they had a specific purpose and that purpose is connected to the giving of revelation.

13:55

And if miracles are common, then they're not miracles. They're just another day that ends in why. Just the ordinary way that God works, business as usual.

14:04

And then Dan and John presented more of a theological approach to answering the charismatic issue.

14:10

John from the perspective of the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, Dan from the perspective of the doctrine of sufficiency of the

14:15

Son. And then with part three, John Sampson kind of kicked us off with a real life example of one who was steeped in the continuationist error, but whose mind and practice was changed by the

14:27

Word of God and by understanding sound doctrine and particularly hermeneutics. Now, there are a number of other presentations that could have been given throughout the course of this conference.

14:37

And inevitably, that will be the critique that will be raised by many who will watch these sessions either on the live stream or later on if they're ever published online.

14:45

They'll watch these sessions and they will say, well, you didn't explain tongues thoroughly. You didn't explain exactly what a word of knowledge was.

14:52

What is the gift of discernment? You didn't explain how it is that those things are continuing revelation. You didn't define them.

14:58

You didn't explain this experience or my great aunt's uncle had a missionary friend brother who went to the mission field and he had this happen and you didn't answer how that could possibly happen.

15:09

Well, fair enough. And to those who would raise that objection, you're right. We haven't answered everything.

15:15

It's not intended to be a comprehensive treatment of this subject. It couldn't be a comprehensive treatment of the subject.

15:21

So if that would be anybody's criticism, then I would just say, congratulations, Columbo, you figured out that not all of the errors of the charismatic movement can be answered in two days.

15:30

And that's a true statement. There are a lot of errors and a lot of things that we could have addressed that we are not addressing.

15:38

Now in this final session, I want to answer the question, why do we care about this? Is it really that big of an issue?

15:44

Why would we put so much effort, so much energy, so much work and study? And for those who have funded the movie project, and for those who have been involved in the movie project, it's a lot of money that is involved in flying these men into a conference like this and bringing them into one location and then doing the filming and the editing, the time, the energy, the money, that is a big expenditure.

16:05

So why would we do that? The men who are here who have presented at this conference are committed to the doctrine of cessationism.

16:12

And it's not something that we hold to in a casual way or when a quasi -serious fashion. We think this is important and we care deeply about it.

16:21

We have all been involved in making this project in some way or another. We have done the interviews and prepared for this week and each of us has prepared a session on top of preparing for the interviews.

16:31

They've prepared sessions to share with you while they're here. And so we might ask the question, we obviously care about this, but why?

16:40

And somebody could raise the objection, aren't there greater, bigger, theological and cultural and societal issues for the church to address?

16:50

And the answer to that is, yeah. And we don't shy away from addressing those things. But just because there are bigger theological issues does not mean that this one is not a big one.

17:00

And just because the church is facing greater threats and greater theological errors does not mean that this is not a significant one that ought to be addressed and needs our time and our attention.

17:12

It doesn't mean that this issue does not have far -reaching theological implications that work themselves out in the lives of everyday lives of people who hold to some of the continuationist doctrines.

17:23

I do not believe that the cessationist continuationist theology is an essential issue.

17:29

And by that I mean it is not a gospel issue. You are not going to hell just because of your view of spiritual gifts.

17:37

That is not what sorts the sheep from the goats and we're not making that claim. And please don't misunderstand what we're saying.

17:44

We're not saying that this is an eternal destiny determining issue like justification by faith or the deity of Christ or the resurrection of Christ because that's not our claim.

17:55

I don't question the faith or the salvation of my well -meaning brothers and sisters in Christ who are continuationists, who

18:02

I think have an aberrant view of the spiritual gifts. I don't question their sincerity, their love for the

18:08

Lord, their genuineness, their desire to serve and honor Christ. I have a number of friends who would not agree with me on the issue of the continuation of the cessation of the miraculous gifts of the

18:19

New Testament. But that doesn't keep me from being friends with them. I still love them. I still pray for them.

18:25

I have done ministry with them as far as our common ground is able for us to go. And we have had, don't be shocked by this, non -cessationists who would not agree with me on every nuance of spiritual gifts take this pulpit and preach from time to time.

18:40

They don't preach on that subject, but they have taken the pulpit and they have preached from time to time.

18:47

All of this is to say that this is a non -essential issue, but it is important. And I think it's very important.

18:53

This is a secondary issue, but of all the non -essential and secondary issues, this subject of cessationism is always bumping up against the bottom of the top tier issues, looking as if it has ambitions to become a first tier issue.

19:09

And that is because this issue lies at the heart of answering the question, what does it mean to live the

19:15

Christian life? And while I'm starting here with a couple of disclaimers of sorts, let me offer just one more.

19:21

I know that not every non -cessationist is open to all of the criticisms that we have raised here.

19:27

I think it was Dan who said that continuationism or charismatic theology exists on a spectrum.

19:33

And that is true. There are mild charismatics, which I'm going to address here in a few moments. And then there are the extreme charismatics on the other side of that.

19:41

We understand that there is a continuum of sorts upon which the different charismatic manifestations lie.

19:48

Some are more extreme than others. But I can already anticipate that one of the critiques of this conference will be the charge that we have painted with too broad of a brush, because this is a standard charismatic response.

20:01

You're just painting with too broad of a brush. For instance, if I say that the charismatics and the continuationists are far too slow to identify the wolves, the charlatans, the hucksters, the liars, the false teachers, and the grifters in their midst, which they are far too slow to do and there are plenty of them in their midst.

20:22

As Justin said last night, charismatic theology is a breeding ground for some of the worst heretics that walk the

20:28

Christian scene today. That's not to say, again, that all charismatics are the extreme heretics, but it is to say that they find a warm welcome inside of that theological camp.

20:38

But if I point that out, then one of the immediate rejoinders will be, well, no, that's not true. That's not true because I had a pastor one time 20 years ago who was not a card -carrying cessationist who was able to identify

20:50

Kenneth Copeland as a false teacher. Therefore, what you're saying about that particular criticism does not ring true of him.

20:57

Therefore, it's not true across the board. You're painting with too broad of a brush. They think that if they can find one lone exception or even a small handful of exceptions that that disproves the rule.

21:07

That's how the charismatic disclaimer game works, but that is not how this works at all. Ideas have consequences.

21:14

And just because you can find one person or even a small group of people where bad ideas have not come to full bloom in their lives does not mean that the bad ideas are not bad ideas, and it doesn't mean that the bad ideas do not have serious and deleterious effects upon their

21:29

Christian life. To illustrate, since 1937, almost 1900 people have jumped off the

21:34

Golden Gate Bridge, and only 35 have survived the impact with the water below. But none of us would say that jumping is no big deal because we can identify a few survivors.

21:43

Would we? No. Setting aside those survivors, you would be well justified to say that jumping off the

21:51

Golden Gate Bridge is foolhardy, wicked, evil, stupid, and it will certainly result in your death.

21:58

And it would be foolish for somebody to point to the lone survivor and say, well, it didn't result in his death. Therefore, it must not be a bad idea.

22:04

This is the game that charismatics play. It doesn't seem to affect his life. He's not a wingding.

22:10

He's not an extremist. He's not a false teacher, and he holds to these doctrines. And so we need to make a distinction between the extremes of this movement and what is taught there and those who are affected by it.

22:23

Not everybody is going to be affected by these bad ideas to the same degree. So yes, it is in this vein that I will paint with a very broad brush because I believe that though it is not an all -inclusive brush,

22:33

I do believe that this doctrine and these issues that I want to point out this morning are very broadly true of those in the continuationist and charismatic movement, those who embrace non -cessationist doctrines.

22:45

So why do we care? I said earlier that of all the non -essential issues that we could talk about, this one has the most profound implications.

22:52

This is a most important of secondary doctrines because it touches on the issue, answers the question, what does it mean?

22:59

How is it that we live the Christian life? This issue is at the heart of the proper understanding of the person and the work of the

23:04

Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit seals us, each and every believer. He is the indwelling, sanctifying presence of God in the life of the

23:11

Christian. Our experience of God, our tasting of divine realities are communicated to us by the

23:16

Holy Spirit. The work of God and the believer through his word is mediated to us through the Holy Spirit.

23:22

The empowering of the believer for service, the strengthening of the believer against indwelling sin and temptation, and the partaking of the believer in the divine nature come to us through the person of the

23:32

Holy Spirit. So it is important that we get that right. This is the means by which we experience

23:38

God in our day -to -day life. And if our doctrine of what that means and what that looks like is off, then our experience of God is not going to be biblical to the degree that we get these issues right or wrong.

23:51

So really we are discussing the work of the Holy Spirit. What does he do for the believer? If we are to hold firmly to the conviction that God has inspired his word and that it is authoritative and inerrant and infallible and complete and sufficient for all of life and godliness, then the only consistently doctrinal position, the only doctrinally consistent position is the cessationist position.

24:14

It is my contention that the continuationist position, sorry, the only doctrinally consistent position is the cessationist position.

24:23

I think I said that wrong. It is my contention that the continuationist perspective undermines the authority of Scripture in the life of the believer, the centrality of Scripture in the life of a believer, and the sufficiency of Scripture in the life of a believer.

24:35

Now listen carefully. This is not what the continuationist intends. He does not intend to undermine the authority of Scripture.

24:42

He doesn't intend to undermine the centrality of Scripture or the sufficiency of Scripture in the life of the believer.

24:49

I don't believe it is their intention to outright deny these things, but whether they intend it or not, that is the logical consequence.

24:57

And if you believe that God continues to give revelation today, then that belief cannot help but insinuate itself into your view of Scripture and into your view of divine revelation, including your view of the written

25:11

Word of God. If God speaks today outside of Scripture, then that cannot help but undermine your view of Scripture.

25:19

And I want to show you today that the belief in continuationism inevitably must affect one's view of the written

25:25

Word of God. Now I'm not going to focus on tongues, I'm not going to focus on miracles, I'm not going to focus on healing, words of knowledge, or any of the other signed gifts or the gifts that the seven authors, the seven speakers here today would contend have ceased.

25:38

I'm going to focus on one practice, the issue of receiving private revelations apart from and outside of Scripture.

25:45

That's my focus. Now here's another charismatic shell game that happens in situations like this.

25:52

If I take one of these particular issues and focus on it and go deep on it to show the errors and the problems with it, then they would say, okay, well yeah, that's all good and fine, but you didn't address healing, you didn't address miracles, you didn't address all these other things, and therefore it's okay, you haven't tipped over the charismatic house of cards as it were, because you didn't deal with everything else.

26:09

But if I don't focus in and we zero out and we just deal with all of these things broadly speaking, then the criticism is, yeah, you might have said a whole bunch of things, but none of those things convinced me because you didn't go deep on any one of those particular things.

26:21

This is the shell game and how it's played. That's not how this works. So what I want to do is

26:26

I do want to focus in on an aspect of continuationism that is present and practiced, embraced, and loved and defended by people in cessationist churches.

26:41

It is the practice of hearing the voice of God through still small voices, promptings, nudgings, impressions, signs, circumstances, etc.

26:56

You see, you can be in a cessationist church, call it a Baptist church, where the pastor would get up front and he would say, look, we're against all them charismatics,

27:06

I don't know why I had to do that in a southern accent, we don't like all those charismatic craziness that goes on, we're not charismatics, we reject that, that's false doctrine.

27:15

Those people are false teachers. Meanwhile, that same pastor will teach his people that you can hear the voice of God through the still small voice, the nudging, the prompting, the impression, and that to make decisions like who to marry, what house to buy, where you should live, what ministry to give to, etc.,

27:35

that you should wait until God reveals that to you through a sign or through an inner voice.

27:41

However fallible you might admit that that is, however subjective you might admit that that is, that is, in fact, a belief in continuing revelation.

27:53

If you think that that is how God speaks to you, you are not a cessationist. And the difference between you and Benny Hinn is one of degree, not one of substance.

28:03

Because you have adopted his presuppositions, you have adopted his view of divine revelation.

28:09

And the little steps that you will take between where you're at now and Benny Hinn, at no point can you give a theologically consistent argument that would keep you from adopting all of his theology.

28:23

So I want to deal with an issue of continuationism that plagues and has infiltrated otherwise cessationist churches.

28:31

It is my contention that continuationism in this regard undermines the authority of Scripture, the centrality of Scripture, and the sufficiency of Scripture in the life of the believer.

28:41

Now really this has to do with the nature of what divine revelation is. I believe I'm probably speaking to a group of people, all of whom,

28:47

I would be willing to bet all of whom believe that the 66 books of Scripture are inspired, that they are authoritative, that they are inerrant, and that they are infallible.

28:54

I'm not going to ask you to raise your hand. I'm going to assume that if you are here at a cessationist conference in a church for two days that you would affirm those doctrines.

29:01

We affirm that these things, that these 66 books are given to us by God by inspiration, that they are authoritative, that they cannot err, and that they are without error.

29:11

And it's my conviction that any true believer instinctively understands this. This is the instinctive, natural position of a born -again believer in Christ.

29:20

They affirm these things about God's written truth. But while most Christians would affirm these things, very few take the second level step of asking themselves, why do

29:30

I believe that that is true of Scripture? Why do I believe that the 66 books are authoritative, inerrant, inspired, and infallible?

29:39

Why should we regard those 66 books as inspired? Because others have said so? Is it that we regard them as inspired because the church has always seen them as to be inspired?

29:50

Is it just because most Christians have always viewed it that way? Or is it because the books are old? Why should we regard them as authoritative?

29:57

Because others have said that they are authoritative? Do we regard these books as authoritative because when they are translated into the

30:03

Queen's English, they sound really authoritative and special and Shakespearean? Is that why we regard them as authoritative?

30:10

Why should we believe that they are inerrant and infallible, that is, without error and unable to err? These books were written by fallible and fallen human men, sons of Adam, men of the dust just as we are.

30:22

They were the vehicles through which that revelation came. So why do we regard those books as infallible and inerrant?

30:28

What gives these 66 books these qualities that sets them apart from every other writing on the planet?

30:35

What makes Scripture authoritative, inerrant, and infallible? Is it because this revelation is written down?

30:46

Those who hold to a continuing revelation today, they would say, I get my prophetic still small voice,

30:51

I get my whisper, my divine impression, my thought ringing between my ears, but I want to make sure that you understand that that's not the same as Scripture.

31:00

Scripture is the written Word of God. This is the language that they will use. I know this because I spent two years reading almost exclusively their books on this subject.

31:11

That's the written Word of God. That's not the same as the prophetic voice that comes into my heart and to my mind.

31:16

It's not on the same par as Scripture. Scripture is over here, Scripture is out there. This is the inner voice of God, so it's not the same.

31:24

And so the average person sitting in the pew hearing the still small voice whispered in their consciousness who equates it to be

31:30

God's revelation would never say that it is in fact divine revelation on par with Scripture.

31:36

In fact, most of them would be very uncomfortable with any attempt to make their personal and private revelations equate

31:42

Scripture in terms of authority and inerrancy or infallibility. But if we take their private revelation and we write it down, does not the

31:53

Word of God in the mind then become a written Word of God? And once it is the written Word of God, do we regard it as canonical?

32:00

In other words, what gives Scripture that quality of being inspired, authoritative, and inerrant? Is the fact that it is simply written down?

32:07

Or is it the fact that Scripture is old, just happens to be an old revelation, sort of stood the test of times?

32:12

Even the most recent New Testament book is 1 ,900 years old. So why do we regard those writings that are authoritative in Scripture, or why do we regard the writings of Scripture as authoritative?

32:23

Is it just because those books happen to be old? Or do we regard them as infallible and errant because of the men to whom that revelation was given?

32:33

Is it because the Word of God came to prophets and apostles that we regard that as authoritative and errant?

32:40

So why does Scripture have these qualities? Is it because it's written down? Is it because it's old?

32:47

Or is it because of the men to whom it came? I would submit to you that that which gives Scripture these qualities is not anything outside of Scripture in terms of recipient, time, or mode.

33:00

Scripture is inspired, Scripture is inerrant, Scripture is authoritative, not because it is old, not because of to whom it came, and not because it is written down, but because of its source.

33:14

That's it. That is what gives Scripture those qualities, its source.

33:20

It comes from Yahweh. It comes from God. Age, mode, and recipients are irrelevant factors in determining whether a revelation is authoritative or inerrant.

33:32

Scripture is authoritative not because it is written down, but because God gave it. It's inerrant not because it is old, but because God gave it.

33:39

It is infallible not because it came through apostles and prophets, but because God gave it. That is what gives it those qualities.

33:46

If a revelation comes from God, it cannot be anything but authoritative, inerrant, and infallible.

33:52

It must be because God, when He speaks, speaks authoritatively always. And it must be that because God speaks when

34:00

He speaks, He speaks inerrantly always, and He speaks infallibly always. God cannot fail.

34:05

He cannot not succeed in what He sets His mind to do. Therefore, if He speaks,

34:11

He speaks to be obeyed. If He speaks, He speaks with clarity. He speaks and is able to be heard, and He speaks inerrantly and infallibly.

34:21

He cannot err, and He cannot make a mistake, and He cannot fail. And that means that the recipients of Scripture, apostles and prophets, if God spoke it, they could not misunderstand it.

34:33

They could not get it wrong, and they could not fail to hear Him, because God is able to ensure not only that the revelation that He gives is clear, but that the revelation that He gives is able to be understood by those to whom

34:47

He gives it, because He intends for it to be obeyed and listened to. There's not a single point in all of Scripture where somebody thought they heard the voice of God, but weren't sure about it, where they had to test it, think about it, weigh it out, confirm it in some other means, consult the inner voice.

35:05

All of that is nonsense. Now, along comes the continuationist who claims to be hearing the Word of God and who claims to be receiving divine revelation, even prophecy and words of knowledge and personal direction, you know, just your average hearing the voice of the shepherd kind of stuff from John 10.

35:21

And we would challenge them and say, well, the revelation that you're given then or that you're getting must be on par with Scripture.

35:27

And the continuationist would quickly demur and say, no, no, no, that's the voice of God to me in my mind, that is not the written

35:34

Word of God, and these two things are not the same. But I ask you this, how is that possible?

35:40

How is that possible? How does God speak authoritatively on this occasion and on this occasion, no, not so much.

35:49

How is it that He can speak infallibly here and then err over here? He cannot.

35:55

God cannot do that because He cannot fail to be understood. He cannot fail to be heard by those to whom

36:04

He is speaking. If He intends to speak, He can communicate absolutely clearly. So there can be no such thing as a non -authoritative revelation from God.

36:12

There can be no such thing as an errant communication from God. And there can be no such thing as a fallible revelation from God.

36:18

If a revelation comes from God, it must have the same qualities of Scripture. And the continuationist wants to affirm the authority of Scripture while also believing that God sometimes speaks in a non -authoritative way, but this is inconsistent.

36:33

It's a theologically inconsistent position to say that Scripture is authoritative, but other times that God speaks, it's not authoritative, it's not inspired, it's not inerrant, and it's not infallible.

36:44

And if that is your view of divine revelation, and listen, Scripture gives no quarter to that idea or that philosophy of revelation.

36:51

No quarter to it whatsoever. There is no category of revelation from God that is errant and fallible and non -authoritative.

36:58

That category of revelation does not exist. And since that category of revelation does not exist, it is inconsistent to say that the

37:06

Word of God is authoritative and has these qualities, must be obeyed, but what He speaks to me does not equal this in terms of the qualities.

37:14

Listen, the written Word of God has those qualities again, not because it's written, not because it's told, not because of whom it was given, it has those qualities because of its source.

37:23

And if the private revelation that pops into your head is from God, then it must have those same qualities as well.

37:30

But only the most ardent and extreme continuationist would make that statement.

37:37

Most of your average little old ladies sitting in the back view of the Baptist church who's waiting to hear from God as to which missionary to give her money to this month, she would never suggest that the idea that pops into her head that she's been told is the voice of God is in fact on par with Scripture.

37:52

But if we suggest that God will sometimes speak authoritatively and at other times non -authoritatively, then this cannot help but introduce the possibility that maybe

38:00

Scripture itself contains some non -authoritative portions. How do you know that they got it right?

38:06

How do you know they got it right? Just because they wrote it down? That doesn't guarantee anything, does it? How do you know it's authoritative?

38:14

Were you there? You weren't there. You couldn't talk to those people. You can't make that judgment call.

38:22

So what makes you think it is authoritative? Continuationists will say that sometimes modern revelation just gets it wrong.

38:29

This moves on from the authority issue to really irrelevance, inerrancy of Scripture. Modern continuationists will say sometimes the revelation is just wrong.

38:37

Matt Chandler, you've probably seen that very famous clip of him talking about the pirate ship dream that he had and giving the revelation to somebody else, exegeted the whole dream he had about a pirate ship.

38:48

He introduces that whole clip by saying, he's doing this in front of his entire congregation by the way on a

38:53

Sunday morning. He introduces that entire clip by saying, now listen, this is not to say when we hear God speak like this that this is on par with Scripture.

39:00

Scripture is the written word of God, authoritative, inerrant. That's over here, that's sealed, that's stopped up. Then Chandler says, the best thing that we can say to somebody else when

39:10

God is giving us revelation is to say, I feel, I sense, I kind of get the gist that God might be saying this through me to you.

39:21

You know, that's the kind of language Moses used, right? That's what you read in the prophets all the time. Hosea is saying,

39:26

I got a sense, I got a sense that this is what God is going to say to Israel today. It's not how

39:32

God speaks. But what Chandler does in that clip, what Chandler does in that sermon is he introduces to his people two different views of revelation.

39:43

He might get it wrong if he gives you a dream about a pirate ship being chased by sharks. That may or may not come out, we'll just have to see how that works out.

39:51

That might not be revelation at all, but Chandler says we should be open to that. We should welcome that into the church.

39:58

We should use that as a means of encouraging one another. We should receive that, he says, as revelation and pass that on to other people in best hopes that maybe

40:06

God might use that in some way to encourage someone else. This undermines the uniqueness of Scripture, for it suggests that God is not able to ensure that He is infallibly understood, that He is not able to guarantee infallible communication.

40:22

Is it God's intention to be understood, and if it is, is He hampered or hindered by the recipients of the message, the fact that we get it wrong?

40:28

The authors of Scripture, they were fallible people too. They weren't perfect. Yeah, they had the office of apostle and prophet, but if these men who also made mistakes, if they could get it wrong, and we can get it wrong, then how do

40:41

I know that what God said to them, they got right, unless the only reason I can know that they got it right is because it comes from God, and He can ensure that the message is received, that the message is understood, and that it is communicated accurately.

40:56

How do I know that the authors of Scripture got it right? Now, some people, continuationists, will say, well, the authors of Scripture, see, we know that they got it right because God authenticated their message with signs.

41:06

Oh, really? Do signs continue today? Well, yeah, they would say. Okay, then the revelation that is given today then must be what?

41:15

Just as authoritative as Scripture. So, you either take the entire ball of wax, or you take none of it.

41:22

I suggest that you take none of it. The continuationist theology of revelation undermines our confidence in the authority of Scripture, the inerrancy of Scripture, because it makes

41:30

Scripture's qualities dependent on something other than the fact that it comes from God.

41:37

And I could make the same argument for infallibility and inspiration, but I don't need to. Scripture provides no category for a revelation from God that is not authoritative, inerrant, and infallible, because God is not trying to communicate.

41:48

He is not trying to get a message to us. He is not trying to reveal anything. God does. God does not try.

41:54

Watch for a book with a similar subject coming soon. The non -cessationist does not intentionally try to sow the seeds of doubt regarding the

42:02

Word of God. They're not necessarily maliciously or nefariously attempting to compromise these doctrines concerning the

42:08

Word of God. They're simply being inconsistent. Second, the continuationist view undermines the centrality of Scripture in the life of a believer.

42:15

The continuationist view of ongoing revelation outside of Scripture undermines the centrality of Scripture, because they believe that God meets us in His Word, but they also believe that God gives us

42:27

His Word outside of Scripture. And therefore, if we believe that God has given to us in His Word all the precious promises, all the comfort and encouragement and direction and exhortations and rebukes that you and I need to live holy and consistent and God -honoring lives, then we must honor

42:42

Scripture above anything else, and we cannot allow for any kind of a revelation outside of Scripture that might remove from the centrality of our lives the written

42:52

Word of God. We can never overemphasize the centrality of Scripture for the life and well -being of the believer.

42:58

And while a continuationist would affirm these statements, that Scripture is central, and all the continuationists that I have read want to give a hat tip to that doctrine and say that this doctrine of the centrality and the sufficiency and the authority of Scripture, this is central, this is what it means to be a

43:13

Christian. While they will give a hat tip to that, they will undermine it with the very next sentence that comes out of their mouth, which begins with a three -letter word that starts with B and rhymes with what, and what is that word?

43:25

But God also speaks to me through the still, small voice and the impressions, the promptings, the nudgings, the signs, and the confluence of life circumstances.

43:32

To put it simply, the degree to which I believe that God is going to reveal to me outside of Scripture the path for my life, the way which

43:38

I should walk, specifically tailored to me and my life, that is the degree to which

43:43

I will not rely on Scripture and keep it central in my life. These things are connected.

43:49

Let me give you an illustration. If God is going to give to me the name of the woman that I am supposed to marry through a sign or an impression or to reveal it through a fleece, then why would

43:59

I rely upon the teaching of Scripture and the wisdom contained in it to memorize that, to study it, to meditate upon it, the dozens and dozens of passages that pertain to marriage and men and women and relationships and wisdom?

44:12

Why would I put all of that effort into that study if ultimately God is just going to simply flash a name in my mind?

44:20

Why would I do that? If I'm going to hear a still, small voice or receive a revelation or discern a sign or see a confluence of circumstances that are going to indicate the woman

44:31

I am to marry, why would I spend the time figuring it out from Scripture? Ultimately, I don't need the truth of the

44:37

Word of God or the wisdom of the Word of God if God is going to simply download it to me through private revelation.

44:44

Therefore, the degree to which I think God is going to do that with that decision or listen, any other decision in life is the degree to which

44:51

I take the Scripture out of the center of my life and my behavior and set it to the side so that I could get something far more personal and far more intimate.

45:01

What good is a revelation that was given thousands of years ago in a different cultural context to a different people that I have never met if God is going to simply direct my steps by whispering in my ear?

45:13

Which would you prefer? Would you prefer an ancient revelation given in a context that you really cannot relate to, that you have to read and meditate upon and seek to understand and then you have to work to apply that to your life, remember it at the right time, seek to govern your life by it, your choices and your decisions in light of what you read and study and memorize and meditate upon each and every day, you prefer that?

45:33

Or would you prefer a fresh, personal, private, you -centered, you -specific revelation straight from God that removes all doubt?

45:42

Which one would you prefer? Most of us would opt for the second one because it's easy.

45:48

If you opt for the second one, that is the degree to which you take the Word of God out of the center of your life and you slide it off to the side in favor of something else.

45:56

This can be so clearly seen in an example given by Bill Hybels in his book, The Power of a Whisper. Hybels talks about a time in his life when he was going through a very difficult season at Willow Creek where he was pastoring and he was very down and dejected and discouraged and he took the day off and left the office of church, went out on a sailboat and sailed around the middle of the lake there in Chicago waiting to hear from God.

46:16

He was listening intently, really wanted to hear from God. He needed to hear from God. It was a very dark season of his life and he just needed a fresh word, something to lift his spirits.

46:25

So he listened and he waited and listened and he spent the entire day out on the boat listening and waiting to hear some whispers, some impressions, some prompting, something that would pop into his mind.

46:35

And he was ready to write it down, he was ready to exegete it, he was ready to think it through. He needed to hear from heaven, but by his own admission at the end of the day, he had heard nothing so he took his sailboat back into the harbor and on his way to the dock he saw a beer can floating in the water and he asked himself,

46:49

I wonder if there's a message from God in the floating beer can. Bill Hybels was willing to exegete a floating beer can in a lake because he wanted to hear from God.

46:59

What about Scripture? Are there not dozens upon dozens of Psalms that deal with discouragement and dejection and rejection and difficult times and depression?

47:11

Are there not dozens of Scriptures that deal with that? Could he not have just spent the entire day reading over and over again through 2

47:17

Corinthians and listening to the heart of a pastor who also was going through a difficult time? He could have done that.

47:22

He could have read of Paul's trials and tribulations in the book of Acts and somehow gleaned some message from God out of that.

47:28

But Bill Hybels didn't attempt any of that. You know why? Because he needed a fresh revelation from God and Scripture was not enough.

47:36

And the degree to which you and I desire something outside of Scripture is the degree to which we will slide

47:41

Scripture out of the center of the table and replace it with something fresh, something personal, something intimate, something that's just for me.

47:49

And guess what? It's usually all about me. There is no theological argument for keeping

47:55

Scripture at the center of the life of a church, a family, or an individual if it has to compete with dozens of other sources of revelation.

48:03

Now, that is not to say that the continuationist would argue that the Word of God should not be central. But it is to say that he has no theological reason, no theologically consistent reason to keep it at the center of his life.

48:16

So it therefore undermines the belief in the authority of Scripture and the centrality of Scripture, and third, the sufficiency of Scripture.

48:22

And this is unavoidable and this is really the crux of the issue. If Scripture is sufficient, if it contains everything we need for life and godliness, then all other avenues, all other sources, and all other attempts at discerning and divining revelation are completely useless and unnecessary.

48:42

Does Scripture contain everything I need or not? No continuationist wants to say,

48:48

I don't know, I reject the sufficiency of Scripture. Scripture is incomplete. In many of the books that I read in preparing for my own book,

48:57

God Doesn't Whisper, I read continuationist after continuationist, charismatic after charismatic, affirm the sufficiency of Scripture and then turn right around and deny it when it comes to decision making and personal guidance.

49:08

If Scripture is sufficient, then hearing the voice of God today, modern revelations, private internal directions from the voice of the shepherd, they are unnecessary.

49:16

There is no need for them and they serve no purpose. Now the continuationist would object and they would say that these private revelations, though they are not necessary, they should be received as private revelations and then we should always test them against the written authoritative and infallible word of God to see if they're true or not.

49:33

So we should be open to them but cautious enough to test them against Scripture.

49:40

And they would say that if it matches what we find in Scripture and is in keeping with the truth that is already revealed there, then we can embrace it and accept it as it comes from God.

49:49

But if it doesn't comport with Scripture, then we should reject it. But if it matches what we find in Scripture and is in keeping with what has already been revealed, then the private revelation was unnecessary.

50:00

Why would God give it? He already gave me what I find in Scripture, right? Therefore the private revelation, if I have to go to Scripture to test it,

50:07

I might as well just go to Scripture to find out what He says about this subject. I already have to go to Scripture to test the private revelation.

50:13

So if the revelation agrees with what is in Scripture, then the revelation was unnecessary. I didn't need it. It should have just gone to Scripture.

50:20

But if the personal private revelation does not comport with Scripture, then the best thing we can say about it is that it is useless and we could also say that it was demonic since Satan is the father of all lies.

50:32

This is the kind of revelation that the continuationist movement says we should be open to. I reject that.

50:40

We should not be telling people that these things are necessary or helpful, nor should we be telling people that they should expect them or be pursuing them or seeking them.

50:49

There is nothing in Scripture that suggests that we should expect them. We do not need them because Scripture is sufficient.

50:55

Most continuationists would not overtly say that Scripture is insufficient, but that is in fact what their theology leads to.

51:01

They want to say that Scripture is sufficient at the same time say that we need private revelations.

51:08

If I need the private revelation, then what has been given to me is not sufficient. So I would just ask my continuationist friends, let's just pull the cloak off of this and just say what we're really talking about.

51:19

We're really talking about continuing revelation. Whether you're talking about Benny Hinn and his visions and his dreams, or whether you're talking about the little old lady in the back row of the

51:28

Baptist church who's waiting to hear from God about which Chinese restaurant to go to for lunch. It's the same approach to revelation.

51:35

This only serves to undermine our confidence in the authority of Scripture, the centrality of Scripture, and the sufficiency of Scripture.

51:42

So back to our question, why do we care about this? We care about this because we care about the truth. That's why. We care about this because it affects our view of the authority of Scripture and the centrality of Scripture and the sufficiency of Scripture in the life of the believer.

51:53

We care about these things, and if we care about these things, then we have to care about the cessationist and continuationist issue.

52:00

It is a secondary issue, but it is a very important secondary issue.

52:08

It answers the question, what is the role of the Word of God in the life of the child of God? And the impact of your answer to that question will be felt in every area of your life, every day of your life, for the rest of your life.

52:20

So if we care about the truth, then we have to care about what we teach concerning the nature of the truth. We have to care about what we say regarding the source of truth, the way in which truth is communicated, the way in which truth is revealed, the sufficiency of that truth, and just as importantly, how the truth is handled from the pulpit by those who do the teaching and preaching in a local church.

52:40

It is my earnest hope and prayer that God will use these sessions and the time that we have had here together, and we've invested here, to increase your love for the truth.

52:50

May He firmly establish you in the truth and the faith once for all delivered to the saints, and may He give you an abiding confidence in His Word, removing from you all doubt regarding its authority, centrality, and sufficiency, and may the

53:00

Lord cause us all to walk consistently with that conviction. Let's pray. Our Father, we are so grateful for Your goodness to us in giving us

53:09

Your Word. We thank You for the mercy that You have shown us in revealing Yourself. We thank You for the mercy that You have shown us in drawing us to Your Son, and then

53:17

You have provided for us everything that is necessary for life and for godliness. We can live holy lives, obedient lives, and all we need is

53:24

Your Word, the indwelling of Your Spirit, trusting in Your providence and Your sovereignty to sanctify us according to Your truth.

53:30

We pray that You would continue to strengthen our hearts and our convictions regarding these things and help us to live in a manner that is consistent with this high and holy calling and with the truth regarding Your sufficient, authoritative