Discussed the Pope's Illness then Calls

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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February 24, 2005

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00:14: desert metropolis of phoenix arizona this is the dividing line the apostle peter commanded christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence our host is doctor james white director of alpha and omega ministries and an elder at the phoenix reformed baptist church this is a live program and we invite your participation if you'd like to talk with doctor white call now at 602 -973 -4602 or toll free across the united states it's 1 -877 -753 -3341 and now with today's topic here is james white and good afternoon welcome uh...
00:55: to the dividing line i cannot hear myself at all but that's ok that's how we start things off on the program each and every dividing line which is i don't know it doesn't it doesn't you know once you flip the switch things work differently than when you don't flip the switch i guess that's what it is uh...
01:13: but uh... i can uh... i can handle not hearing myself anyways uh... i was just thinking about playing some of this thing here and then i realized uh...
01:22: unfortunately when you reinstall your system that there's there's no way to do that because all the stuff that i had on my sticky notes are gone i mean i still have some place but i had to do all this mental gymnastics to how to get that program to work and i can't do that while being on the air at the same time so yeah i was noticing that uh...
01:47: so anyway uh... 877 -753 -3341 uh... i don't honestly remember where we were in the patterson stuff might just throw it in the middle someplace in and uh...
01:58: you know but uh... for those of you see if i if i talked loud enough then it breaks through it and if i go down there there whatever you did just did changed everything i'm out of the mushy yuki stuff and and now i can actually hear something so i did everybody's looking at me i don't touch the stuff that that's that's the guy over there pointed pointed to that guy over there with the likes all the lights and things like that that's uh...
02:25: i don't i don't go over there and play with that stuff don't don't look at me anyways uh... we have a uh...
02:30: announce uh... yet some more announcements to make real quick here but uh... no music to play so let's uh...
02:37: go ahead and uh... once again uh... bring on mister mister alaska hi mike hello you're on well i didn't want that to happen oh well as you know i'm sorry it says it says on my screen bring mike on for just a bit that's i'm doing what i was told to do you know okay okay okay you called why well because i don't have real one player installed on my computer i thought we had an announcement here you know the most expensive uh...
03:13: real one listener around no uh... i guess we do have some announcements here that are very important and that's that uh...
03:19: we are running out of inventory right now on our alaskan cruise as you know now explain to folks that inventory sounds like books and cds and things like that you're you're in an industry what is inventory inventory means cabin uh...
03:36: space and that the problem is folks is that we are basically the only game in town right now if you want to find on for this particular cruise you can't get on a travel off the works media or even to print up itself we are the only one holding cabins right now and uh...
03:54: you know in a very very bad way princess would like to get some of those cabins back but not only that but we we are filling up quickly and as soon as we run out of cabin folks we're done there eight no more cabin and and and i'm not ready to put on the email to a lot of our past cruises just to explain yet this is not just about alaska cruising hanging out being with doctor white each during the week and hopefully i have a lot of what's that's supposed to mean well i mean you have an interesting you know election of food that you usually stick with you mean a less than interesting selection of foods i stick with is not what you really mean hamburgers and steak uh...
04:37: well i don't believe it if they have to believe me i was looking for the tacos on the last trip man i was i was looking all over the place we're on a mexican trip we didn't make tacos as it didn't make any sense if it is the way to comply with so would you like to have the audience is not the only fault of it if you can i get some salt for these tips what is there a brother thank you appreciate that so but but but but but they get focused if that this is not even really like one of our are regular excruciating that we've done uh...
05:09: this is really taking a whole other flavor to it in and that being that uh...
05:14: there is going to be the on board debate doctor james white in his partner uh...
05:21: doctor james renahan again john dominic crofton and marcus bork who are two fellows two scholars with the jesus seminar uh...
05:31: this is not going to be an opportunity that you can even have to be able to listen to a cd or anything because it will not be recorded while on board so you get seven days of apologetics seven days of praise and worship with steve camp you get the onboard debate or you you are the only one third ever hear that right there on the ship and then also you get the beauty of alaska going all the way up to the inside passage so what's what's the time frames here what what what what do we need to tell people so they've you know most folks need something concrete well to look at i have negotiated with with princess we had a march first deadline which is just coming up in a couple days yes uh...
06:13: we've moved that up to march fifteenth so you have till march fifteenth be able to go ahead and all you gotta do is just put down a three hundred fifty dollar deposit the finals not due till june first so if if it's a if it's a crunch thing or whatever if you have a lot of time to be able to pay for the rest of it uh...
06:32: up until june first but we just need you to if you were planning on going thinking about it i've been weighing it in your mind uh...
06:40: we're expecting to talk to your spouse about it now's the time to to do this otherwise uh...
06:46: you probably will be out of well i don't want to say out of luck but you'll be out of grace as far as that goes uh...
06:53: you're not going to be able to get on the ship we want to make sure that we give the opportunity for everyone to be able to do that alrighty well so it's going to be uh...
07:02: there's not going to be any uh... open open cabins uh... on this uh... this cruise to alaska uh...
07:09: now i i think it's going to be very similar if you remember back a couple years ago james when uh...
07:15: we were on the zondom including the eastern caribbean we ran out of cabin and we have all sorts of upset people that couldn't get on board or when a couple did finally free up uh...
07:27: later on uh... the price was twice what ours was originally so we just don't want to see you in that situation uh...
07:34: we want to make sure that you folks get a chance to get on board with us and enjoy not only seven days with us at ministry but also the debate on board which is going to be historic that it will alright sir well uh...
07:47: i'm sorry to bring you on when you weren't expecting to but uh... i can only do what i'm told to do you know i mean well now if i can go back to the listening program well that assumes i'm gonna have something worthwhile to say so yes you can have you can do that so i will uh...
08:04: i will i will put you back on hold here and uh... thank you for joining us sir uh...
08:10: at least i try to do that i'll let uh... the people on the other side uh... well it's flashing so i guess that means that's the way thank you uh...
08:16: alright well anyway uh...
08:21: uh... yet enough i was a good time with this i've seen so far like three comments uh...
08:29: you know the big news today is uh... fox news is uh... is all over this one the uh...
08:36: the uh... failing health of the roman pontiff is the big news of the day and uh...
08:44: you know that there are very few people who have my i guess i would use the phrase credentials as one who has opposed the roman catholic system and roman catholic theology and uh...
08:59: obviously i find it extremely offensive uh... that's the roman catholic pope utilizes uh...
09:08: such terms as holy father uh... which uh...
09:14: jesus uh... only used of the father himself uh... vicar of christ who would be the holy spirit there is nothing about the the uh...
09:24: perversion of biblical truth that the papacy represents that uh...
09:30: i would even begin to uh... uh... except or anything like that uh...
09:37: but i've i've seen like three different jokes that have gone by about his current state and i and i just uh...
09:46: uh... not only remind folks that there are people who sit in channel or they listen to a speaking we don't know where they are we don't know where they're coming from we don't know what their issues are right now and uh...
09:59: we would be in a really hard hard -pressed uh... to defend any kind of statement like that but i i just understand it uh...
10:07: i mean uh... i really don't that that's it's one thing to oppose the theology it's something completely different to to engage in that i just uh...
10:17: i understand it it leaves me completely uh... uh... befuddled and uh...
10:22: uh... you know obviously what what you do is uh... you know we everyone knows that uh...
10:29: the current pontiff is not going to be living much longer uh... he his pontificate has lasted longer than any other pope of recent memory i've forgotten how long it's been since there was a pope that was uh...
10:42: sitting upon the chair of peter in rome as they claim uh... for as long as this one and uh...
10:49: there's gonna be some major major changes coming there's no no two ways about it uh...
10:56: that that's there's going to be some some major league things coming down the pipe and what we should be thinking about is how are we gonna respond to that you know i start thinking about i think evangelicalism is in a is in bad shape as far as responding to what's to be happening in rome uh...
11:20: am i not right if you're asking what why would you say that well think about it uh...
11:27: responding to new challenges and especially let's let's let's come up with theoretical uh...
11:32: situation let's say the next pontiff and generally the the man who comes in after a long long pontificate this isn't always the case but historically anyways a person who comes in after a long long pontificate isn't gonna be there long and there's gonna be a lot of displeasure about whatever he does because he's not the last guy i mean the last guy has has what he he has built up member and you know and when bush was elected he said he has political capital to spend and ins in a in essence this pope has a lot of political capital except it's more it will part of it is political and part of it is religious he's got a fair amount of uh...
12:23: of capital just simply from having been pontiff for so long the next guy has none of that and you know it's like it's like becoming the pastor of a church after someone you know who sort of like uh...
12:39: you know built the place you never want to be the next guy that's that's the last thing on the planet you want to do because everybody's could be comparing you to the last guy and and and the worst thing is that the last i sticks around that's not the issue with with the papacy of course but uh...
12:58: if last i sticks around that is that the perfect recipe for a church split or the the second i lasting about six months and then is pulls his hair out and runs screaming in the night is never heard of again and so the next guy whatever he does he's going to be taking heat one way or the other and let's say just for the uh...
13:20: the sake of argumentation that the next guy is as conservative and the chances obviously from my perspective the chances are far greater that the next person the next uh...
13:32: cardinal probably who will be uh... elected as as pope is not going to be as conservative uh...
13:43: as the current pontiff and so what what is going to be incumbent upon us let's say he uh...
13:54: well here this is a real obvious and look at the top the topic of the uh... uh... of the debate we're gonna be doing so much of the theological community of roman catholicism uh...
14:11: is very much in love with the concept of inclusivism the majority of theologians as far as i can tell are inclusivist today within roman catholicism and within liberal protestantism as well the uniqueness of the gospel message of union with christ is just simply you know that that's old style that's that's offensive to to postmodernism so uh...
14:44: you know how will evangelicalism respond you see in the pontiff a much more open an official establishment of the continuing uh...
15:02: degradation of roman catholic theology at this point i do consider it degradation i mean it's it's one thing to say rome is wrong about justification which it is it's one thing to say rome is wrong about the mass and the atonement which of course it is and to say it has no gospel at all but i've always found it considerably easier to talk to roman catholic who actually believed those things then to talk to the liberal roman catholic who doesn't really believe what rome has taught all along and is willing to look back upon the clear statements that have come forth from roman magisterium over the years concerning the absolute necessity ex -requisitum nullis alis what did that mean and and it's not impossible only postmodernist think it's impossible to find out what someone believed by that what that meant to them you can just stand back and go okay this person said it how then did they act did they uh...
16:09: did they engage in ecumenical dialogue the way that rome does today uh...
16:14: did they you know except schismatics and the heretics as brothers and sisters in christ and all the rest of stuff in it obvious so clear that they did not back in in the day in fact you go right through the papal syllabus of errors in the eighteen hundreds in nineteen century and what that meant was was fairly clear but that's changed now and you have to really engage in historical revisionism to not see that that has changed and it's hard to talk to those folks that it's it's like nailing jello to the wall because there's no substance you can't hold them accountable to you can quote anything you want a quote from historical documents and it's all subject to the death of a thousand qualifications and of course they look at you know well now you're just being way too you know you're just being way too stringent here you're not allowing the uh...
17:13: you know the magisterium in the theologians to interpret words and all the rest of the stuff that they throw around so let's say just for the fun of it uh...
17:24: that's the next is very liberal or at least more liberal and we see a movement toward the concept of inclusivism being very much uh...
17:42: established as the official position of of the church not just functionally as it is already but in a dogmatic way is evangelicalism prepared we can't even get inclusivists out of ETS we've got
18:00: Clark Pinnock running around how on earth are we supposed to to respond meaningfully to roman catholicism what about the conservative catholic who becomes very disillusioned and recognizes you know what what this pontiff is teaching now is directly contradictory to what was taught by pontiffs for literally hundreds and hundreds of years and the logical reasoning would be if for hundreds nay thousands of years well at least over a thousand years people that i consider to be the vicars of christ taught x and the person claiming to be a vicar of christ today is teaching not x then the logical result of that is what well the guy today is the guy who's out of the loop not the people who taught something consistently for a long long time and so are we going to be in any position to speak to those people not if you're you know part of this this you know anti -intellectual evangelicalism that doesn't believe that uh...
19:13: you know if you if you're running around saying well you know it doesn't really matter what you believe in you so as we just say jesus three times you're not in any position to talk to these people are you is evangelicalism in a position to respond to whatever happens in the changes that are right around the corner it's odd i'm i'm sure it's uh...
19:35: wouldn't it be really really interesting uh... i'm gonna be in rome in uh...
19:40: the middle of march wouldn't be interesting if i get to see the puff of smoke uh...
19:46: that would be very very interesting for those of you who don't know what that is that's the means by which it is announced that the cardinals have uh...
19:53: elected a new pope is this puff of smoke is is released in and uh...
19:58: i'm a little surprised that the uh... environmentalists haven't gotten all over that one yet but anyway uh...
20:03: i have a feeling that's not too far down the road and uh... this has prompted all sorts of discussions by the way in light of the great expansion of medical technology that was not a part of human history until just the past few decades about the idea of a of a pope remaining pope until death because with extraordinary means you can you can literally deprive the roman catholic church of it's chosen leadership for years on end uh...
20:38: by by utilization of technology and so it's raised all sorts of issues not so much about euthanasia of course as it's raised issues concerning what concerning succession concerning the concept of uh...
20:53: the concept of having a a pontiff who is able to in essence resign the office and why why shouldn't that be really is is a question a lot of people are asking uh...
21:06: why why shouldn't that be uh... something that would do it they would be considered and uh...
21:12: in fact allowed for that's that's a good question to stop i'd just think they're going to be opportunities heading our direction i think we need to be prepared to given answer for the hope is within us and yet do so remember what peter said with gentleness and reverence and that's brings me back all the way to the to the comments i've seen made that i'm not certainly going to repeat anyway uh...
21:42: concerning the current situation and it's just like that where's the reverence part that was that jealous reverence but i don't don't understand it uh...
21:51: says i saw when i sat here going how am i gonna address this because this is you know i i don't want to really just defend somebody right out of their socks but the same time that's just not right this is now that's uh...
22:03: that's just that's not how approach itself anyway eight seven seven seven five three three three four one is the uh...
22:09: phone number i was uh... has those who've been looking at my blog now uh...
22:17: the uh... for some reason i volume sliding i'm not sure why it is but anyways uh...
22:24: uh... i've been doing the uh... reinstall windows reinstall your programs thing man that is a pain by uh...
22:34: yeah yeah yeah especially i found out what uh... uh... specifically was causing the problem that we couldn't have found out if we hadn't you know reinstalled is one of those hindsight things were once you reinstall you do is that all of their all look at that all my goodness you know why is that program consistent service back to us as a by the way all of you unix lennox mac folks i said close the email not send the email we've been getting emails we've been getting emails from you mac users you mac cultists uh...
23:14: we've been getting the the lennox stuff you know and and believe me i've got a button now you try calling in here i get ready a real fast that's all there is to it uh...
23:27: there is there is just no functional way that i would be able to leave xp professional uh...
23:34: you just don't have any idea how many programs i've got to do so many different things i am a gadget person i have got gadgets i've got my palm t three sitting over here and i've got my infrared port over here and uh...
23:47: my cameras and my cell phone and and and all that stuff is uh...
23:53: xp pro i mean that's it uh... i'm a piece i'm stuck with pc man about a pc sense the first one which had a tiny little green screen and was running at four point seven seven megahertz alright so there's just there you know there you know we've been at this point because it would just be silly uh...
24:14: so anyway i'm doing all the stuff of lost all the bookmarks i have to reestablish all my rss feeds of lost all that stuff i had twenty seven rss feeds going in and they're they're gone they just i forgot say i forgot to save my bookmarks i've never done this before in fact those of you know something about technology and so you're not going to sleep but i'll be quick so you know something about these know that we have been dodging the bullet for a long long time what i mean by that is my body of data we've got a lot of hard drives we've gone through lots of system boards have gone to lots of computers we do it all ourselves uh...
24:53: but that body of data that we move from hard drive to hard drive from system to system goes way back uh...
25:01: it's minimally it was minimally and is minimally uh... an upgrade from win ninety eight to win two k to win xp pro and those who do this stuff a lot saying he don't know why don't you just do a clean install and then reinstall everything and i kept saying you have no idea how long i'll believe me as i skipped windows and me that that was not even a windows operating system people that was win ninety eight service pack three unb undebugged that was just the worst thing that was ever thrown out there but we'd actually dodged a bullet for a long time you're normally not supposed to be able to upgrade upgrade upgrade and actually have to work and uh...
25:46: we finally ran to something that just you know you we tried to put a new motherboard in it that's uh... is supposed to be just super high speed and the rest of the stuff and so i was sitting here and i'm going to be perfectly honest with you i wasn't overly happy starting the program because now norton is causing me all sorts of difficulties i've deinstalled it twice and it says it's still there and won't reinstall and so now i can't send email and so no i'm not uh...
26:16: i'm beaten on this thing with uh... with a sledgehammer at the moment and uh... will will get it will will get it fixed one way or another some of you going i'm glad you can send email but anyways as i was saying i've lost all my rss feeds but i at least was looking at uh...
26:31: one of the feeds i used to get uh... because i'm gonna try to find the little program that will work with uh...
26:39: mozilla firefox and use that in the future but uh... did y 'all notice the uh...
26:45: the discussion of the member of corn k -o -r -n you've seen the uh...
26:51: the things on windows of people going by that are their music so loud that it's causing the windows to bow boom boom you know i hate those things and uh...
27:03: just read a little notice that brian uh... welch founding guitarist of the heady heady heavy metal rock group corn has left the band after converting to christianity a statement on the band's website explains corn has parted ways with guitarist brian head welch who has chosen the lord jesus christ as his savior and will be dedicating his musical pursuits to that end welch allegedly cited moral objections to some of the group's lyrics some of the group's lyrics uh...
27:36: that uh... welch allegedly said moral objections to some of the group's lyrics and videos as reason for his departure and said in a radio interview i think if kids if they want to go and you know listen to corn and stuff then good but there's happiness too you know after the anger end quote well obviously we pray that uh...
27:58: the lord has indeed done a work of grace in brian welch's heart uh... but uh...
28:05: there is something there about the idea of uh... there's there's happiness after the anger and uh...
28:11: that is uh... that is rather rather interesting so anyways also do you see that there is a uh...
28:18: a uh... pg version of the passion coming out the christian booksellers association website says that a new non are rated version of the passion of the christ we released for the easter season between five and six minutes the most violent images from elgibson's movie on the death of jesus will be edited out uh...
28:38: unfortunately we cannot get an orthodox version of the passion uh...
28:43: which gets rid of all the mary and stuff and uh... all the rest that that stuff that went with it uh...
28:49: along one way eight seven seven seven five three three three four one i've got to get used to where my clock is now it's back in the task instead of floating around i could move that but it's it's it's you know right now main thing is try to get functionality back which i had until norton decided to go nuts and so the next stop is regedit uh...
29:13: which means we will be we're installing the whole thing here fairly soon unfortunately actually i probably need to deinstall ghost first see if i can get rid of all that that way and then go regedit anyway no fun folks we're gonna go ahead and take a break we have uh...
29:31: one caller online and we'll take your calls at eight seven seven seven five three three three four one we'll be right back right after this under the guise of tolerance modern culture grants alternative lifestyle status to homosexuality even more disturbing some within the church attempt to revise and distort christian teaching on this behavior in their book the same sex controversy james white and jeff neal right for all who want to better understand the bible's teaching on the subject explaining and defending the foundational bible passages that deal with homosexuality including genesis leviticus and romans expanding on the scriptures they refute the revisionist arguments including the claim that christians today need not adhere to the law in a straightforward and loving manner they appeal to those caught up in a homosexual lifestyle to repent and to return to god's plan for his people the same sex controversy defending and clarifying the bible's message about homosexuality get your copy in the bookstore at a omen dot org alaska the unspoiled land of nature and immensity both in its realities and its possibilities alaska can stir our hearts and minds like no other place on earth join us this summer for the two thousand five alfred omega ministries alaskan cruise as we cruise the inside passage to the great land of alaska with doctor james white and christian recording artist steve camp as they explore the great doctrine of sola scriptura for our guests the journey north is an odyssey of glorious landscapes and majestic wildlife as we sail on the luxury five -star sun princess by towering glaciers into some of the most remarkable points on earth all this and at prices beginning at six hundred twenty four dollars per person plus port taxes and fees half the price of other offerings to alaska with other groups contact us today at a omen dot org or at eight seven seven s o v cruise millions of petitioners from around the world are employing pope john paul the second to recognize the virgin mary as co -redeemer with christ elevating the topic of roman catholic views of mary to national headlines and widespread discussion in his book mary another redeemer james white sidesteps hostile rhetoric and sites directly from roman catholic sources to explore this volatile topic he traces how mary of the bible esteemed mother of the lord obedient servant and chosen vessel of god has become the immaculately conceived bodily assumed queen of heaven viewed as co -mediator with christ and now recognized as co -redeemer by many in the roman catholic church mary another redeemer is fresh insight into the woman the bible calls blessed among women and an invitation to single -minded devotion to god's truth you can order your copy of james white's book mary another redeemer at a omen dot org this portion of the dividing line has been made possible by the phoenix reformed baptist church the apostle paul spoke of the importance of solemnly testifying of the gospel of the grace of god the proclamation of god's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church the elders and people of the phoenix reformed baptist church invite you to worship with them this coming lord's day the morning bible study begins at nine thirty a .m.
33:10: and the worship service is at ten forty five evening services are at six thirty p .m.
33:15: on sunday and the wednesday night prayer meeting is at seven the phoenix reformed baptist church is located at thirty eight oh five north twelve street in phoenix you can call for further information at six oh two two six grace if you're unable to attend you can still participate with your computer and real audio at p r b c dot org where the ministry extends around the world through the archives of sermons and bible study lessons available twenty four hours a day i was just noticing in channel someone uh...
34:16: brought up something more about uh... the corn and guitarist uh... welch who had left that said well she's scheduled to speak at church services this weekend at valley bible fellowship in baker's field and i went uh...
34:31: that's not good uh... he does not need to be speaking uh... you'll be over there is a great story now that's where we ruin these people that's very rude is that how many people have you seen who claim to have a conversion experience and they cannot some like this and immediately they're on the road and they're traveling around telling the story we don't need the story maybe down the road that man needs to be in church he needs to grow he needs to be grounded he's been living in a world view that is so far removed from the bible and from christianity that you can't just assume that he's ready to go no there's going to be a process of change there's gonna be a process of growth and the man needs to be around mature christians not traveling uh...
35:45: doing the show thing again why do we need this what why do we want to hear stories like this and i want to hear about what it was like why don't we have enough good stories in our own churches isn't it better to hear about a christian who was raised in the faith and who was kept out of all that stuff so i just you know i just see that and go man there there's uh...
36:13: i could be wrong maybe that's the church he's at i don't know but if this isn't the church where he is being discipled why is he out there on the road why is he doing that this isn't the time for that it's time to grow it's time to become grounded that just seems rather practical to me eight seven seven seven five three three three four one let's uh...
36:41: let's head up to where i'm gonna be in october uh...
36:49: stretch stretch stretch while hitting the palm t three and going to month of you uh...
36:55: and uh... doing to do to do to do to do october fourteenth fifteenth and sixteen for the bible conference up there in omaha nebraska and talk to paul hi paul hello paul how are you yeah i'm great uh...
37:13: how's it going dr white doing good i was uh... recently on the at the campground forum i'm sorry i was on the catholic interest form no i said i'm sorry so night uh...
37:28: abalone outlets are responded with an interesting argument i hadn't seen before all of them i was just asking him to uh...
37:36: exegete uh... roman or uh... you know man working and not working and the he brought up uh...
37:45: he said that uh... always dealing with the judy either in roman three -minute and in a roman or and even though uh...
37:54: is not paired with of a lot he said that that's his argument here and i it seems like it should be easy to get hit or i just wanted to have uh...
38:05: insight into this for her department or how would you handle it i just discovered that uh...
38:10: the bible works reset itself back to the king james version that's really depressing uh... uh...
38:18: uh... i don't understand what the argument was you're gonna have to try to explain that a little more clearly to me to see uh...
38:28: what what the argument is in regards to romans four okay yet uh...
38:35: okay that's nice and you didn't uh... well five years that you're back here uh...
38:43: and looking for a paper and i think i'd like to buy the work of the law if i think about and i would uh...
38:49: okay all right and so he said that he had to go and use your book i don't have a book and i'm not sure if you're actually quoting from or that i don't think that that'll be no i i i first of all i didn't read that i use the uh...
39:03: any tea there and uh... i don't believe the any tea translates that as uh... works of the law let me bring it up here uh...
39:12: that's it does it does works a lot yeah so uh... he uses that to say well then that shows that we're talking about work of the core of here and then he said he so he can be justified by works other than of the torah yeah i think yeah i don't it's a good you need to take that into uh...
39:34: back that up and it's a it's there for a moment you know if you look at you guys are and uh...
39:40: but but therefore uh... not dealing with that the big patient i think a lot but typically dealing with uh...
39:48: those who demanded that people uh... where they can and uh...
39:55: you know i don't think that in the text where they can come into it uh...
40:00: but i here's what you thought about all that well a couple things uh...
40:05: first of all your your modern catholic apologists uh... are especially in the influence of people like our simple and others uh...
40:14: trying to grab hold of uh... new perspective stuff and using it only as far as it is useful to them uh...
40:22: to use it but not taking it so far as new perspective is due because obviously the new perspective perspective would be uh...
40:30: contradictory to both uh... the historic protestant position as well as the roman catholic position and as such they can only use certain elements of new perspectivism and so it's actually an old argument to try to say that all uh...
40:48: that's being addressed by paul is doing works which specifically well at this to to to forms of it the better form is more advanced than certain people you might be dialogue with would understand the the better form and the older form of it is well what's going on here really is paul's only talking about uh...
41:12: ceremonial laws he's not talking about uh... fulfilling the commands of christ or the laws of christ as we understand them interpret them and so they try to make a distinction within law between ceremonial and moral and and basis and basically all paul's talking about when he talks about some of us we talked about or a uh...
41:32: is the ceremonial aspect and that actually has some connections to certain elements of the new perspective concept that those especially specifically that's uh...
41:42: are focused upon the idea that what you've got going on here are the national symbols of judaism and that's your just dealing with the idea becoming a jew before you become a christian so on so forth joining in the covenant bearing the the covenant signs so on so forth this idea that it's well this is just torah if it's not if he's not making that distinction if he's just saying well this is a full testament law is a much less nuanced uh...
42:11: idea that i normally hear from uh... uh... mormons more than i hear from anybody else uh...
42:17: because it's fairly obvious as soon as you make that kind of statement you're saying so what you're saying then is that paul believed that there was a torah above the torah and that you're not justified by keeping the the lesser torah which is the law of god the old testament but you're you are justified by keeping the greater torah which maybe would be the uh...
42:44: uh... namas christ to the law of christ uh... or not move this to uh...
42:51: it all depends on you know i i don't know where he would go to have this defined word is so uh...
42:56: distinctively uh... kept away from uh... the use of law that uses here but the problem is in and i i uh...
43:05: uh... missy here there it is let me just look at something real briefly here uh...
43:12: you can hum a happy tune in the background here i don't believe is that i wasn't that happy about that it sounded like the people to gilligan's islands is that it's it's about myself and i thought well you can get out but it's too late okay uh...
43:33: thank you very much for your assistance though uh... yeah i was i didn't think that there was there there's no uh...
43:39: text will vary in there and so why you know that uh...
43:47: uh... or i think i'm i'm i'm going backwards here for a second and i'm now reaching behind and uh...
43:54: that place having a thing around here to do to do to do to do that which is i need and to get that i need to get that sound and uh...
44:05: that song and and use it as a uh... as a uh... but i'm looking for something here uh...
44:10: no you don't uh... you're going to find something else uh...
44:16: you know what now this is really an unusual i'm looking at the NET and the
44:21: NET if it is anything it is note heavy it has lots and lots of notes and guess what there's no note there's no uh...
44:32: no discussion no note uh... why they translate uh...
44:38: simply x ergo ergo as if the phrase of law is coming after that and so that's really interesting you know what i i'm i know who to ask but uh...
44:51: i would certainly uh... disagree with that uh... rendering it is certainly out of uh...
44:59: uh... the context of the rest of the uh... uh... english translations that is an interpretation that uh...
45:07: what's what's interesting to me is that when you ask why doesn't he put of law into the the greek text when he's writing this to the romans i think it it comes out by the fact that we're talking about abraham here and we're talking about the law of moses though there's an act there's there have been an acronystic application there and then his application in verses three and following demonstrate that he's not talking about works of law that's that's how you if if you want to really provide a full response uh...
45:41: to mister latar within the context the catholic answers forum so i would say is now if your understanding is the right understanding then where you're missing it here is look at look at how he then continues it when he speaks of works inverse for now to the one who works is he talking about works of law here no his wage is credit as a favor not as a favor but is what is due he uses a secular standard employment question shall we say an illustration here and uh...
46:15: in in doing so uh... he makes it very clear that he's talking about works in the concept of receiving a a wage putting got a position of being a debtor and then contrasts the receiving of the wage being by grace is credited as a favor and uh...
46:36: not as what is that do it is not as a debt and uh... so then he contrast that was saving faith in the next verse so i'd i'd like to try it whenever someone tries a a a a neat little i don't know uh...
46:52: backdoor escape in essence uh... i'd like to try to fit into the text and demonstrate where consistently reading it that way the rest the way through is going to cause all sorts of uh...
47:06: issues and problems and difficulties for them and uh... but it is interesting i'm very glad to see uh...
47:13: the uh... uh... i'd i'd didn't even notice it mainly because probably there's a good example for example if you want to apply this to uh...
47:22: the issue of textual criticism if i had been writing romans four two uh...
47:29: and copying it from an any t uh... i would not have put of law because i have it memorized in the new american standard and since that's what i was accustomed to i'm sure that i just would have was written adverse out and not even seen it in any way shape or form uh...
47:45: because it's just it's just so unusual is outside the uh... the context and uh...
47:51: so anyway uh... that's how it responds i would take that down and demonstrate that doesn't uh...
47:56: uh... work uh... whatsoever with uh... with the context uh... as it as we have it there that's great all right and i think it's called already but i think that was a bit eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one is the phone number man all the fonts are changed uh...
48:15: looks terrible uh... uh... it is endless i get by works but back together again i was actually getting the greek text up and all the rest of stuff so savage is comes up with the king james and it's nothing it's king james but why have bible works if all you look at skin you know you there's lots of free programs out there will do that uh...
48:38: anyways eight seven seven seven five three i look over my little uh... console there and there are no little lights ringing away but let's not really ring but you know what i mean so i think i will take a now this this may not even work now to think about it uh...
48:54: because we haven't tested it and uh... has anyone heard doctor james white and and mckinney's discussion there's no taping of my discussion of anything with and mckinney sure is yes you were uh...
49:14: i think i'm katie are careful and many years ago that's i think it's a number of four weeks you know none of them and mckinney yeah of the american atheist society is a recall i don't know i don't know what's number four thirty number four thirty yeah what's the name uh...
49:37: you talk about this mckinsey no you know and i think so i a got that off of the recording that's uh...
49:46: and she was that i've died that but yeah there is it was recorded uh...
49:59: what can you say and you know i don't want to uh... even going to have to hear that one myself because uh...
50:07: and i don't uh... don't have slightest recollection of any thing like that at all uh...
50:13: amazing zip zero for thirty huh at james white versus a mckinney of fundamentalist anonymous and doesn't i remember the fundamentalist anonymous discussion that was with uh...
50:26: live secular phoenix calling radio yeah that was a but bob mohan yet that i that was uh...
50:33: that was that was a long time ago but it's still fun to listen to uh... you should uh... i have to listen to that because uh...
50:41: my recollection was of a uh... of a male uh... well you did so many different debates back then with different atheists and skeptics and it doesn't make any of them doesn't ring any bells at all i remember bob mohan said obviously she was a forgettable person well because more of the well more of the argument was with bob mohan than with anybody else uh...
51:04: the person is that the phone was irrelevant to his but you could tell bob mohan just just detested anything that had to do with fundamentalism at all just blah that was that was recorded we got it interesting i highly recommend it in fact it's very entertaining uh...
51:21: well you know i have to listen to it myself yes you should in fact you could get it for what uh...
51:26: dollar fifty at the uh... mp3 store actually my network works i can pull it through the network right now if i want to if it's around there some place i can uh...
51:36: search around for it and eventually find it alrighty well thank you very much you're welcome i just happened to see that scroll by and i'm like what?
51:44: because i thought it was in reference to the fact that i mentioned i don't remember what i mentioned uh... or even what context i mentioned running into dan barker oh yeah we got that one too outside oh yeah outside the studios that was after that was kfyi that was uh...
52:02: tom likus i was like twenty one now that's one i wish we had a recording of well yeah yeah no we would not be able to sell it it would violate uh...
52:11: it would be r -rated and not because of me uh... let me assure you uh...
52:18: so it was uh... yeah it was quite the interesting experience yeah we did a lot of stuff back there i don't know if we should still be making that stuff available i was i was half the age i am now i just realized that i was i was that was twenty one years ago twenty one years ago that's sad time passes by so quickly that's one of the reasons why it seems like such a waste to be spending that time sitting at a computer going why did the font change?
52:50: why won't norton deinstall? what's going on? uh... that kind of stuff that's just seems like so what you're telling me is that i'm going to have to deinstall ghost and then i'm going to have to go into the registry and look for anything that says norton and kill it and then maybe i'll be able to get it all but that's great that's wonderful when we're a big huge ministry someday i'm gonna have i'm gonna have techies they're just gonna do this stuff yeah they're gonna walk in and say okay doc we gotta wipe the disk yeah no no no no their whole job will be to make sure that when i tweak a system it stays tweaked which means we do lots of ghost backups actually you know what i wouldn't even i honestly would not even let somebody do that i even if we had somebody i don't know that i would allow anybody to do that you know me hands on my computer i wanna i wanna do that stuff so anyway that's what we will i'll be doing that right after the program is what we'll be doing eights a techie for hire yeah we've got sammy in new jersey sammy needs a job and uh...
53:58: so we might be able to get sammy out here uh... and he'd work for cheap yeah something tells me i could have him a room with josh uh...
54:11: and we could go from there uh... he's pretty skinny so i don't think he he uh...
54:18: eats a lot and what uh... i'd just just saw his uh...
54:24: is a reasonable offer for a for a uh... salary there and it was and was misspelled i love i love with somebody's off asking for a certain salary and they may misspell it i'll word for books now tell you something sammy's track up i thought we had a caller that was stretching here sammy's trying to take over wonky's position in channel there's no toys about that uh...
54:54: but our word for books uh...
54:59: that's that's anyone i didn't think that the uh... the question could be answered in this sort of time but if your game the gentleman want to know what your thoughts were on gordon clark's uh...
55:09: solution to the problem of evil uh... have a close so you have thirty seconds have a clue okay i don't regard work that was short you know i i read a little bit of a while back but i'll get out i'll be i'll be honest i'm i'm probably negatively uh...
55:26: influenced here by the fact that some of the weirdest people are running to were big fans of his that there's been some good folks at work but some of some from the folks that i've talked to over the years uh...
55:40: that were just not really don't the floor well uh... we're real big in that and i just uh...
55:47: so maybe go and that's all i will gladly confess i have a so the gentleman's currently reading gordon clark's uh...
55:59: please read many books are you insinuating that something might happen to him after i'd i'd have no idea uh...
56:07: it is someone said the gordon clark come up with a different solution the problem of evil than reform theology in as a whole as i would hope and foggiest that's now and wildlife thing you know i don't know you know i'd i'd do not claim all knowledge and uh...
56:25: you know people who are really surprised you haven't read that what would i do all this you know that's what i was uh...
56:31: i tried talking about this in channel a couple days ago and i'm so got my head had been a platter but you know there are people who only study one little narrow area and they can know everything there is no about that area and so there are people who know more than me in any area that i address there's no question about that but do they know as wide an area of knowledge as i know most of them don't and so you've got your specialists and you've got your generalist you've got people in the middle i'm in the middle i my area is apologetics and and i put effort into that area but they're always going to be somebody who knows nothing about mormonism nothing about jehovah's witnesses nothing about major world religions nothing about islam nothing about the crime but they know more than me about subject x and as a result of that uh...
57:23: i must be wrong about everything else that's something that i uh... encounter very very frequently and so no i what i like to sit around and uh...
57:33: and get to read that kind of stuff and not have to read a lot of garbage they do uh... yeah sure but uh...
57:40: not what the lord's brought into my life i've gotta do what you gotta do you know and uh...
57:46: you gotta study what you gotta study and frequently that's not you know the funnest thing just like reading the channel right now isn't overly fun i thought i had friends in general but i don't and uh...
57:56: so i'm just gonna you know kick em all out sit there and channel all by myself and that's how it's all gonna work out anyway uh...
58:07: today's thursday at today's thursday and uh... tuesday tuesday thursday next week are fine it's the week after that is really questionable because i'm speaking back in st louis i think it's on a tuesday wednesday might be back in time thursday not sure it's gonna start getting really spotty let's put it that way especially with england coming up and things like that so anyways uh...