10 Years of Beholding God | Richard Owen Robert, pt 3

Welcome to the whole council podcast. I'm Teddy James. I'm the content producer for Media Gratia I'm the guy who is behind the cameras and does all of the editing and mixing and things like that.

I wanted to take a few minutes and Explain a little bit of why we're doing these special episodes last week.

We did Jordan Thomas this week will be Richard Owen Roberts Doing this week will be

Richard Owen Roberts and his Finishing out his interview that we did with him for Beholder God, Rethinking God Biblically.

As we've said before anytime you do these types of projects, there's always Content that's left on the cutting room floor and it's not because the content is not wonderful and that it's not great

I think that all of it really is But because of time constraints, you know, if we were to put those into each of the episodes or each of the the sessions

Each one would be over two hours long and that simply wouldn't work. So because of time constraints we have to remove them and we have

Really thought for the last several years how can we put these out there in a way that would be helpful to people and so we pray that these podcasts and Honestly from the comments that we've seen on our

YouTube channel and on our our social media channels We have seen that You guys are really appreciating them and benefiting from them and we're incredibly grateful for that So without further ado, let me present to you

Richard Owen Roberts in the the final episode of his interviews When a people worship an idol in God's name it is rejected by God Can you talk about how you can see evidence of this reality in modern evangelicalism?

When Moses had that incredible encounter with God on the mountain and the golden calf incident and the intercession where he

Went so far as to say if you will not save my people Blot my name out of your book and God told him go on get moving

To the place where I'm sending you. I won't go with you myself You're a stiff -necked people

I would destroy you in the way I'll send an angel before you So Moses balks and says if you don't go with us we're not going anywhere and It's amazing to me that to God honored

Moses Balkan and When Moses said they weren't going anywhere without him

God Responded I want to Just read a very short statement that I think bears wonderfully upon this particular

Issue, I'm sorry that to take me a moment to turn to it in Exodus 33

God said my presence shall go with you and I will give you rest

Then he said to him that is Moses said to God if thy presence does not go with us

Do not lead us up from the here for how then

Can it be known that I have found favor in thy sight I and thy people

Is it not by thy going with us? so that we

I And thy people May be distinguished from all the other people upon the face of the earth.

I think that's a Wonderful importance we are trying to demonstrate to a world

That God is with us That they ought not to worship idols that they ought not to pursue that way of life that indeed

God forbids that kind Conduct they hear our words, but they pay no attention to us

They don't have any convincing evidence that we know what we're talking about. And this is what

Moses was facing how So the people of the world know

That we are yours and that you are with us if you aren't

The tragedy of our day is God has left us and we don't even know it

So we're busy telling people don't do that. That's wrong. God forbid it you must do this

This is what God command. They're not paying any attention to us because the convincing evidence

That what we speak is true is not ours God is not with us

When God is with us Then People will note that They'll be moved

By the presence of God in us. They'll come under conviction For what they're doing that is contrary to the will and the purpose of God As bad as things were in the days of Isaiah He was able to talk

Idolaters to mock them Remember that passage where he talks about the man of wealth hires a silversmith or perhaps a goldsmith and he creates this

God and when the God is Ready, then he puts the

God on the pedestal and he bows down and worships the God he had made

But then the time comes when he has to move his household So he doesn't say to the

God we're moving to Ninth Street now, please follow us No, he's got to pack that God up and carry it along with the pedestal to the new location

Set it back up on the pedestal and then get down and to worship the

God he had to carry the nature of Christianity is we don't carry our

God our God carries us His presence is with us in a manifest way when that's true, and we rebuke someone for a

Given sin or we call upon them to abandon their false gods There's something very persuasive in the argument because of the presence of God with us

Without that presence. It's just words and I believe that's what we're faced with today a multitude words with nothing to back those words up and Until the church repents and turns back to God.

They're going to be continue to be hollow words now some are better spokesmen for hollow words than others and So they draw a great

Following with their hollow words But nothing is transformed. Nothing is truly changed

It is the presence of Christ in his people that brings the transformation it brings a conviction of sin.

I Know it's dangerous for the old to be talking about the good old days when things were better And I want to be careful not to Engage in that but honestly as a young man things were better.

I Started preaching when I was 13 Knew virtually nothing don't know all that much right now

But certainly more than I knew then It was amazing. I mean it was not uncommon to see all congregations bathed in tears

Tears of conviction because God was present in this word was powerful and lives were

Transformed we saw whole churches radically turned around in a relatively short period of time

But it's not that way now God is not with us that is the church is all in the way he was and that's what we long to get back to and That's when the idols will start to topple in people's life

Trying to take their idols away from them just leaves them in a vacuum

Won't do them any good in the long term But when the God of the

Bible cry crowds the idols out of their life They have no longer even lingering respect for their false gods

How do you see pragmatism sapping the strength of Christianity? I think it's just one of a multitude of things that sapping the strength

I believe the novelty doctrines has had as great an impact for evil as pragmatism

Personally, I'm not very capable in dealing with philosophical Arguments and if I was required to be an apologist,

I'd be sure to be a failure But I'm pretty good at proclaiming the truth and I believe that when the truth is empowered by the

Spirit of God it sweeps everything before it and So my concern is to keep on earnestly seeking

The empowerment of the Holy Spirit and go on proclaiming the truth as it is in Christ Jesus with the conviction that the answer is

Christ and that one of these days Once again, the kingdom of God is going to flourish in our country

Because the words and the spirit in combination have turned things around The psalmist boasts that the nearness of God is our good in light of the majesty of God in Scripture How do you propose a church or an individual pursued the nearness of God?

We've got to realistically face. What are the factors that have caused

God to draw away from us? There's that wonderful passage in James chapter 4.

I Don't know if I can get all seven straight. Let me try Submit to God number one

Resist the devil number two Draw near to God and he will draw near to you number three

Cleanse your hands You sinners number four purify your hearts

You double -minded number five Weep and more number six humble yourselves before the

Lord and He will exalt you number seven. I think we can take those very literally take them one by one

Ask ourselves with great earnestness To what degree have

I submitted to God Is there any area of my life where I am struggling against God?

where What he treasures is not what I treasure Where I hold in reserve from him

These things I'm overall generally Submissive but I admit not really completely submissive that's got to be dealt with if we will not

Submit to God. We are stuck where we are and we'll only get worse and not better all true change begins by Literally submitting to God in everything everything he says about himself.

I agree with everything he forbids I Forbid everything he loves

I Love everything. He says do I do I submit to God now fundamental to that is the

Misconception that has gripped the bulk of the church concerning what faith is Most of people that I talked to in the places where I'm privileged to minister faith is really passive Acquiescence Here are certain essential truths.

I believe these truths. Therefore. I am a man of faith But the book of Hebrews especially chapter 11, which obviously focuses on Faith makes it crystal clear faith is active obedience so that first statement of James for if a person

Does not submit to God it is because they do not have true faith

When my faith is the real thing, I know that I can never do better than to submit to God So that I think is the first step the second step

James Brings to the floor resist the devil in Very practical ways we have got to make it difficult for Satan to get to us.

I can vow to cleanse my mind I Can determine

I am not going to allow my thoughts to go in that direction But as soon as I turn on the television,

I assist the devil in moving my thoughts in the wrong direction

We've got to take some significant steps To Make it impossible for Satan to get to us so readily.

We've got to resist him We've got to establish some practices in our own private lives for instance early morning rising early devotion the spending enough time with God early in the morning to Fortify the soul for the day so that I can throughout the day

Resist Satan well much could be said but to simply in how I submit to God resist the devil

Then draw near to God number three. We've been speaking of that in the word draw near to God in prayer draw near to God if you don't

Face the reality that God is sometimes near sometimes distant

If you haven't learned to treasure the nearness of God Then you don't have this earnest resolve

Continually to draw near to God or if somehow you've been led to think well if I once drew near to God Somewhere in my past and I'm perpetually near to God Well, if you think that way then you're defeated but if you if you say by the grace of God every single day

I Draw near to God That becomes the most earnest

Ambition of my life to be near to God today but then

I can't go very far in that direction without looking at my hands and I think along with Job he

Who has clean hands? Grows Stronger and stronger now

Job didn't state it in the negative, but it's perfectly proper to do So if he who has clean hands grow stronger and stronger

Than he who has dirty hands grows weaker and weaker

I Know men who are earnestly trying to draw near to God who haven't dealt with their hands who still

Touch money as if it were God Who are still into sex in a way?

that is dirtying their hands and Perhaps above all other things that might be said on the subject of clean hands if I reach up and touch

God's glory I Have soiled my hands in the worst conceivable way

For the glory belongs to God not to man any time I interject self into ministry

Anytime I take credit or glory for anything. God does I've soiled my hand so cleanse your hands then

Purify your hearts now. I don't really believe that that's dealing with the clean thoughts and Notions like that, but the purified heart

Is the heart that's been made singular. I Believe it's what our

Savior was speaking of in the Beatitudes Blessed are the poor in spirit

Blessed are they that mourn Blessed are the meek

Blessed are those that hunger and thirst for righteousness For they shall be filled the result of a filling with righteousness

Jesus says is that you're a peacemaker and you're pure in heart so When James says purify your hearts you double mind it

Rid yourself of Everything that is crowding in clamoring for attention wanting to have some place in position in your life

Set your affections on Christ Jesus alone Let him be that one for whom all of your life is

Devoted and the advancement of his kingdom and this glory your soul ambition and because we have been so long in this tangled web of iniquity the time is upon us for weeping and mourning and pouring out our hearts in supplication and in Repentance before God in bitter

Teal tears that because of all the life we've wasted and then number seven humble yourself and God will exalt it seems to me.

That's a powerful Answer to that question. What must we do and I know personally

I'm going over and over that passage and Requiring myself to diligently pay attention to each of those seven things submit to God Resist the devil draw near to God Cleanse your hands purify your eyes weep and mourn

Appropriately and Walk in humility before God. I believe the answer is there

Can you give passages or books that have been most helpful to you as a pastor and leader? Well, there have been such a host of them that honestly,

I'm not sure I could with any wisdom single them out.

I know that people love brief lists and When they hear or get a good list of books they say well

I'm gonna go right out and read them now occasionally that may happen But I expect by and large the list get buried and little is done about it.

I Want to look at this head on however I'm a changing person.

I Have been in chains throughout my whole life There have been times when a

Certain book ministered to me greatly and I would find it utterly worthless today. I Believe the value of good books is they meet us where we are at the time that we need them and God Graciously uses them and to help us

So really I am NOT any good at giving out list of books

Though a multitude of them have helped me immensely, I Would say one preacher had greater influence upon me than any other person in my life

And I'm gonna take the liberty to speak of him in lieu of your request

In 1961 I went for the first time to London Spent several months there in research work on some of the books that I have since produced

During a period of roughly three months. I was staying in London for the most part and attending

Westminster Chapel when dr. Martin Lloyd -Jones was preaching

I found all of his ministry To which

I was exposed incredibly helpful, but I'd like to describe Two Incidences that blended well three really that blended together

That had the most profound impact upon all of my life ever since first I was working a lot in the

Evangelical Library and one of the deacons of the chapel was a volunteer in the library and Over a period of several weeks this man said to me the doctor would like to meet you

Now I never really paid any attention to that. I couldn't imagine why dr.

Martin Lloyd -Jones Would wish to meet me. I thought the man was just being kindly and So I just simply disregarded it could couldn't just couldn't see that there could possibly be any validity in it one

Sunday, however He caught a hold of me after a morning service

He was a large man with huge hands grabbed me by the upper arm his hand fully in sir

My frail little arm and he said to me I've been telling you the doctor wishes to meet you

He will be greatly injured if you refuse So literally he dragged me out of the sanctuary into a hallway that ran the full width of the building went through the door on one side that hallway was packed jammed with people and He dragged me to the front of the line right to the pastor's study door.

I tried dragging my heels and Saying I can wait at the end of the line

But no he insisted Soon the door opened. I was ushered in it was crystal clear that the doctor did wish to meet me

He had been somehow told about me what I was doing my research work on revival he was keenly interested in revival and Welcomed me with great warmth and we had a very pleasant

Visit together. It was very impressive to me and immensely helpful.

But now this is the ringer When we went back out into the sanctuary

I said to the man who had dragged me in there Why did you drag me to the front of the line?

I? Would have gladly stood at the back of the line He said to me now you get this straight.

Mr. Roberts. I'm a man under order. I Said I know that kind of phraseology, but why couldn't

I have waited at the back of the line? I'm telling you when the doctor wishes to meet someone a special guest

He commands us to bring that guest to the front of the line So naively

I say to him and what were all these other people standing in line? He says to me why those were inquirer

What What do you mean? He said you and I have had numerous serious discussions.

We agree On what an inquirer is those are? Inquirer, so then

I boldly asked him What are the results now? Look here. He said, you know, the doctor hates statistics

He would be very offended if I answered that question I said

I understand that and I do deeply appreciate that but this has been a critical experience for me.

I Really need to know what's happening Now look, he said mr. Roberts if you will vow never to breathe a word of this while the doctor is alive.

I Will tell you what I believe All right.

I said I agree He said every indication is that not less than 24 people

Are converted on an average every single Lord's Day Now that was in 1961

I've been dozens of times the United Kingdom sense have met countless numbers of men in ministry throughout the whole of the

United Kingdom who have told me they were brought to faith in Christ in the chapel

During those days now that was an incredible impact upon me Because I had been raised in the typical evangelistic type of a setting even though it was

Presbyterian I had myself engaged for years in evangelistic

Crusades Was not as sold out to the altar call and the usual Methodology as most in fact had been moving away from it largely, but still that was part of my heritage

But then connected with that something else happened one

Sunday night The doctor was preaching and he announced

His subject in a way that he typically did he would take something out of the newspaper that had been

Pretty much in the public eye that week and he would begin his sermon and that Occasion the

Russians had sent their first cosmonaut into space that man's name I believe was

Gregorian when he came back. He said he had traveled all over heaven and there was no

God and He could verify that there was no God because he had been in heaven and had been totally unable to find him the doctor took that as a launching point and then he moved into a

Glorious message exalting Christ and Showing man's view of God and God's view of himself radically different I Have to say this carefully and I know this is even dangerous, but nonetheless, it's true.

I Was so caught up in that message But I totally lost track of my surroundings

Suddenly I Came back to awareness of my surroundings. I was in a balcony

It was totally empty. I rushed downstairs. The sanctuary was totally empty

There were just a couple people standing at the door Waiting I suppose for me to leave so they could lock up.

I know that Experiences like that are held in suspicion by many.

I suspicion much of what I hear myself I'm Telling you literally what happened as I weighed that I realized

I Had missed a very very important element in true preaching

True preaching ought not to be a listening event

But an experience with God in his word and Literally what happened to me on that occasion was

I was so captured by the Word of God that was being preached So focused on the

Christ who was being proclaimed that I simply lost awareness of the physical surroundings

It was nothing sickly about it. There was nothing mystical or frightening about it

It was an incredible realization that Christ when proclaimed in the power of the

Holy Spirit Has this incredible ability to so capture a person they lose track of everything else

And I set my heart that night after I had had chance to evaluate the experience

God helping me before I die I hope at least once to preach in such a way that people experience