Episode 72: God is Enough

Rural Church Podcast 2.0

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Welcome to the Ruled Church Podcast. This is my beloved son, with whom

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I am well pleased. He is honored, and I get the glory. And by the way, it's even better, because you see that building in Perryville, Arkansas?

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You see that one in Pechote, Mexico? Do you see that one in Tuxla, Guterres, down there in Chiapas? That building has my son's name on it.

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The church is not a democracy. It's a monarchy. Christ is king. You can't be

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Christian without a local church. You can't do anything but. And to bend your knee and bow your heart, turn from your sin and repentance, believe on the

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Lord Jesus Christ, and join up with a good Bible -believing church, and spend your life serving

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Jesus in a local - Welcome to the Ruled Church Podcast. I'm your co -host, Alan Nelson.

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Pastor, one of the pastors, at Providence Baptist Church in Perryville, Arkansas. You don't have 80 on right now, but you will.

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This is one of my most favorite episodes that we've ever done. This actually comes from about seven years ago when we were doing

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Ruled Church Podcast 1 .0. Of course, it wasn't called Ruled Church Podcast 1 .0.

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It was just called the Ruled Church Podcast. And on that series of podcasts, we had a great time interviewing a godly lady by the name of Prissy Wallace.

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And Prissy is in her 70s. She is blind. She is one of the most godliest women that I've ever been around.

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She was a supporter in my first pastorate at First Baptist Church of DeWitt, Arkansas. We had gone through some trials there over Reformed theology.

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And Ms. Prissy was so supportive and continues to stay. I just talked to her about a month ago.

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No, more recent than that. Just a couple weeks ago. And she continues to pray for me and the church.

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Just a godly woman. You're really going to be blessed by this episode where we have the opportunity to talk with her about her thoughts on churches.

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And I think you'll be edified by this conversation. And you'll find that,

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I guess, over the last seven years, Eddie and my voice has both lowered because when

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I listen to this, I'm like, boy, you guys sounded high -pitched. So you'll enjoy that as well. But anyway, enough of me talking.

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You start now this podcast. Enjoy our conversation with Prissy Wallace.

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God is enough. Introduce to our listeners today a very special lady to me.

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I've known her, closing in on 10 years, close. Maybe not quite, about eight years,

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I guess. But she has been a wonderful influence on my life, always an encouragement to me.

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And so I want to introduce everyone to Miss Prissy Wallace today. Miss Prissy, you say hello.

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Hello, everybody. It's sure great to have you. Now, how do you and Eddie know each other?

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I know you know each other. When did you all first meet? You are the one that told me about him.

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And then when I came to one of the conferences, I think it was two years ago, three conference times ago, he came out, it was raining, and he helped

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Lisa and I get into the church. At Emanuel in Clinton.

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Right, exactly. Yes, ma 'am. Yep, that was my remembrance of our first meeting.

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Was that the one that Nathan and Eddie and them preached or the one that Jared Wilson preached?

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I think it was the one where Jared preached that. I don't think Prissy was at the first conference that I preached at.

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I think it was the second conference. Right, it was the second one, yeah. You know, he didn't want me to really come to the first one.

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Oh, come on now. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Well, listen, so this is the

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Rural Church Podcast, and the reason that we invited Ms. Prissy on is because she gives us a little different perspective from two pastors.

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And so we want to just turn it over to you for a little bit, Prissy, and ask you a couple questions.

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And, Eddie, kind of how we'll work this is if there's anything that comes up that you want to ask, feel free to jump in.

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But here's how I want to start. And I warned you about this on your testimony, Prissy, and so we could probably talk for two or three hours just about that.

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Or four or five. But this is what I want to know. Let's start with this. Would you tell me your testimony about how you came to faith in Christ?

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Well, I will start even a little before then. But when

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I was young, I grew up in a non -Christian home. I was the oldest of three children, and my dad was a war veteran, and he did drink.

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And because he drank, when he did, probably to escape many things that he experienced, but yet when he drank, he was mean, and he was mean to my mom and abused my mom.

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And as a seven -year -old child, an eight -year -old child, I prayed to the

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God I was told about and asked him to please make my dad stop hurting my mom.

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That never happened. And so I didn't really believe in a

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God when I was growing up. I lived an immoral lifestyle.

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My mom and dad finally divorced. We were even more of a divided family because when my brother turned 14, he went to Gillette to live with my dad and mother and my younger sister, and I lived in DeWitt.

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And so our family was quite divided. And when

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I had just turned 23, I mean, I talked to preachers before, long before, asked them questions and all.

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They didn't have lots of answers that made good sense to me. But in February of 1973, my mom was fishing with a guy she dated, and my mom never came home that day.

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She didn't go to work the next day and found out later and was pretty sure this was what happened because she had not done that before.

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But she drowned. The guy she was with drowned.

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This was when the water was high. And they found him months and months later.

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They never found my mom. And for my sister and I, my mother was my

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God. I mean, she took care of us. She took care of me in every way because I was a brittle diabetic from the age of 12.

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And, you know, it was the hardest time in my whole life.

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And so that was in February. In May, I worked at a department store in DeWitt, and a guy came in whose name was

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Ben Carroll. He came in to talk to Dolores, my boss, because she was a good friend of my mom's and mine and Carroll's.

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And she also was my boss, and she was a member of the Christian church.

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Well, he came in to talk to her, but he saw me, and we were closer to the same age.

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And so he came over and started talking to me, too. Well, we set up a time, because I had nine million questions for him, and you would know that,

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Quatro. Oh, Pastor Allen. But anyway, we went to talk one day, and we went to the

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Arkansas Post. I went in my car, so I would be in charge and be the controlling factor in that situation.

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Let me just clarify. These were like gospel conversations? Yes, these were gospel conversations, yes.

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Okay, okay. I didn't know if this was like a dating relationship or what. No, he liked me.

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Uh -huh, uh -huh, uh -huh. But, no, it wasn't a dating situation at all.

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You were talking about gospel things. Okay, okay. Yes, we were. And when we went down there,

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I will tell you, this is how my smart -alecky way was. I said, I don't want to talk about heaven.

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I don't want to talk about hell. I don't want to talk about do, do, do, do, do. That's what I did.

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And he followed that. But one thing, he asked me a question.

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I've never been asked, and I'll never forget it. He said, Prissy, did your mother love you?

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I said, yes. Did you love your mom? Yes. And then he said,

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I'm going to tell you, if that is so, no matter if your mother is in the good place or the bad place, her desire for you would be that you would go to the good place.

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And I'm going to tell you, that sounds like nothing to y 'all. It was everything to me.

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And he gave me a book by Dr. Elton Trueblood called, man, now,

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I think it was a general philosophy book. And I took that home that night.

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I read 100 pages. And I thought, well, no wonder he's got a certain direction.

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I was kind of a little bit jealous, because he had a direction, and I just flopped all around the places.

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And, you know, and I still do that, don't I, Quatro? I mean, staying on topic is not easy for me, because one thing gets me off topic, and there

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I go again. But then when we came to the parsonage, and I pulled up, and when

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I was there, all these screwdriver cans, you know, the mixed drink, they were empty.

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I had consumed them all. But when they rolled out from under the car, this is what he said.

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He said, he laughed. And I thought, boy, you are a different kind of preacher guy.

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But he said, Chrissy, one day you will not need those. And I'm telling you, those two things impacted my life more than you can imagine.

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And even though they believed, I mean, and I started going with him to church.

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I started going to the parsonage, and the pastor there,

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Terry and Elaine Reed, were a young couple with a little boy, and we would sit and talk and laugh.

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I mean, we had a grand time, but he and I would study. I asked him a whole lot of questions again, because I knew nothing about the

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Bible, except when I was younger, I did read

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Revelation with, as I was drinking. It's really spooky.

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Oh, wow. It's really spooky. Do not mix Revelation and drunkenness.

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No, do not do that, because, I mean, yeah, that blood up to the bridle of the horses, it was just,

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I mean, you know, it was like, it was bad. Wow. But then started, you know, teaching me about what the

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Bible meant, and they, the

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Christian church, believe you cannot receive the Holy Spirit until after you're baptized with water.

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Well, I believed I was saved two weeks previously to my baptism, water baptism, at midnight one

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Saturday night. Sounds like a good baptism. But I told him, you know, no,

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Ben, something changed in my life, and he told me it was the Holy Spirit wooing me.

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But he went to Acts 2 .38 and told me, nope, I didn't receive the

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Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was wooing me. I didn't really believe that, but you know me, I've always been strong in my stupid ideas sometimes.

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So what happened at midnight? And then much, much later I found out that wasn't right, but it didn't matter.

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God sent him for me when my mother had died, my

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God had died. Yeah. And so he sent the right person for me to tell me the good news of Christ and the difference he makes in your life.

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You were 23, right? Well, I mean, that began in May of 73, and probably

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July the 23rd or 4th, that's when

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I prayed at my house by myself, and this is my un -Baptist prayer.

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Lord, if you're there, take me. Guess what?

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He did. Amen. And he showed me he was there. But, you know,

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I mean, I'm almost afraid to say that to some people, because who are you to say, if you are there?

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I go, I was my little smart -alecky self, I guess. So you've been walking with the

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Lord about 44 years. What I saw, Ben had.

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And it made all the difference. Eddie, were you going to say something? Just for our listening audience to know, do you still live in DeWitt now?

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Yes. Yeah, I thought so. Now, see, I grew up in Gillette.

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I went to Garland, Arkansas, close to Texarkana, while my dad and two of his brothers taught raising rice to a farmer there and helped him with all that, you know, got rice going there, and then we moved back to Gillette.

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And after my mom and dad divorced when I was 13, Carol was, let me see, she was probably at the time, she was four or five, you know.

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But we moved to DeWitt because my dad followed us, did some pretty not good things to people who came to see us.

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And so we thought it would be best if we were up here, and it was.

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Well, did you have a follow -up with that, Eddie? We all, all of us love Gillette. It's our hometown.

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Did you have a follow -up with that, Eddie, or were you just, just, can you hear me?

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So can you tell us a little bit about what DeWitt is like, like what size of a town is it for people that maybe don't know?

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I don't know a lot about DeWitt. I know that that's how you know Cuatro is from DeWitt, but I don't know much about the area or the town or anything like that.

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Well, I would say, I mean, if it's the way it was at one time, there are probably approximately 3 ,000 people who live here.

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And Gillette is even smaller, a lot smaller. But we have

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Baptist churches. We have Methodist churches, or a church.

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We have, you know, missionary Baptist, all kinds of Baptist churches here.

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And we have a Lutheran church here. We have a Catholic church in Stuttgart.

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So there are all kinds of Christians. But in small communities in the

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South where it's a farming agriculture, we have, you know,

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I mean, we have very weak churches. We have stronger churches.

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We have people that concentrate on only the good. We have churches that almost concentrate only on the more negative.

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But then we have Ballantyne, because when I read my Bible, we have

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God is a God of love. He is described as God is love.

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And I believe, as believers, that's where we need to park a lot, because I know that is good for our brains.

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That is good for our spirit. And it is good for our deep, deep soul that connects with our

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God. But I, oh, go ahead. Well, I was going to say, just to kind of, because I wanted to follow up.

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And I realized, by the way, I was trying to talk to you guys, but I had myself muted. So sorry.

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I was like, why aren't you listening? But, okay, so Prissy, you said something about reading the Bible. And I think that's interesting, because a lot of people at this point may not know this.

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But you're blind, and this is a personal question, I know. But I'd like you to tell us.

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So you were converted at the age of 23. Right. When did you go blind, and how has that, just how have you dealt with that?

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It has impacted my life greatly. But I will tell you, when

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I was 23, you know, I started going to women's

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Bible studies here, and I learned a lot. But I also started getting cassette, and I still live by the cassette, y 'all.

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What is a cassette? I know, a cassette. It is a tape, you little twerp, you.

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Hey, I'm not as young as him, so I'm not going to make those kind of jokes.

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Oh, okay. Good. But let me tell you, I got, have y 'all ever heard of Dr.

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Ed Wheat? No. No? No. Okay. Well, he was a man who lived in Springdale, Arkansas.

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He was a medical doctor, and he started getting, you know, buying cassettes from all over.

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I mean, great teachers, John MacArthur, Arnold Fruchtenbaum.

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I know y 'all have never heard of him, but he was a Jewish believer who is great. Let's see.

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There was a guy named Mark Kakouras, Earl Rodmacher, just loads of great people.

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I learned about the names of God.

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I mean, I just got so much great information. And I'm going to tell you, in a small town, sometimes you have great teachers of the

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Bible that come and are your pastors. And then you have those, you know, not so good.

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But regardless of all that, there is plenty of good teaching that we can get in a myriad of ways.

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Well, what about, just to back up before we go down that road. About my Bible? Well, no, I was just going to ask you about the actual, the situation with your blindness.

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That's because of diabetes? Right. And I've been a diabetic since I was 12.

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And I was the only child in Gillette that I know of that was diabetic at that time.

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And I didn't want anybody talking about it. I didn't want anybody to know

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I had to take injections. I just, you know, I didn't want to be that different.

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Well, just to be clear, this happened after, although you were a diabetic, but your actual blindness happened after your conversion.

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Yes. I was 28. I was told two weeks after getting my first teaching job that I would be blind within the year.

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Both eyes. I thought one eye was bad. That I would be blind in both eyes within the year if I didn't start laser immediately.

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And when I was talking to the nurse, I didn't care for my doctor there, because that's the first thing he said to me.

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He didn't say, hello, Ms. Wallace, da -da -da -da -da -da. He just said, you'll be blind from retinopathy within a year if you don't start it immediately.

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So I went up there, and the nurse says, well, sometimes you have like 200 spots of laser or something.

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Well, I had 1 ,500 spots of laser the first time, and it just kept, but I had what's called proliferative retinopathy, which means your brain, it's unique how

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God made us to heal ourselves. I mean, he really, we are fearfully and wonderfully made.

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I mean, I know that so much because he will cause your brain to tell the places where you're not getting enough blood flow in your eyes to make more blood vessels, which it will, but if you already have a problem with blood vessels that are weak and that will leak blood out, then you just make,

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I mean, your body makes more and more. Most people don't have that type of retinopathy, but I did.

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So you had been converted about five years, been walking with the Lord. Right. Had you come to the light of being a

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Baptist yet at this point? Oh, yes. Okay. That happened probably, well, a

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Jewish believer came to DeWitt, and a friend from the

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Christian church, Alan Brandenburg, somebody about five years younger than I was, he went with me to the

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Baptist church to hear Rocky Freeman at that time. And then

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I went every day at noon. And then Rocky came back the next year.

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And so it was probably right after that because I had a lot of questions for him, too.

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And I peppered him with a lot of questions. He had lots of answers, more than anybody else

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I had ever met had. That Bible. Huh? I said that Bible, huh?

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Mm -hmm. That Bible. It's cool. Okay. So you had been converted about five years.

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Mm -hmm. I was told I was going blind. Before that time, had you been a regular reader of the

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Bible? Yes. Oh, yes. Oh, I will tell you this. I mean, it wasn't long, long after I became a believer.

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I went to one of the leaders, you know, well, a deacon in the

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Baptist church, and I said, What did you read this morning? And he said,

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In what? And I said, In your Bible. And he said,

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I hadn't read my Bible today. My mouth dropped open. I didn't know anybody didn't read their

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Bible every day. You kind of thought that was a standard for being a believer, huh?

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Yes. I mean, I really did. But of course, when I first came to the Lord, I didn't know anything.

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So I read all the time. I didn't even want to stop eating so I could read. Wow. But that was, you know, that was at the beginning.

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And it, you know, it will go back, and then it will come forward, and it will go back and come forward.

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And, you know, I'm still that way. But I can't study anymore.

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And that's a hard thing. That's what I was going to ask you. So, again, a personal question, I know.

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But when you were dealing with that, what kind of effect did that have, you feel like, just on your walk with the

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Lord? Here you are walking with the Lord for five years, and they say,

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Look, you're going to lose your sight. Well, I will tell you another part to that.

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I was being taught wrongly at the time by some people. And he was saying that when you get a,

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I mean, when you really get a word from the Lord, everywhere you turn, there is that verse, that verse, that verse.

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Well, you know, something in me just, I didn't really like that.

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But I just go, Trishie, what is your problem? You are always doubting everything.

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Stop it. And so, I was being taught that if you see something, and of course, it was at that time, it was

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Jeremiah 29, 11. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the

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Lord. Plans for welfare, not calamity, to give you a future and a hope.

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And I thought, but you still have to see it in context. So, I read it, and I knew it was talking about the future restoration of Israel.

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But, but, no, it's to me, because I knew 13 very well.

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I'd read through the Bible more than once. But I just didn't know that you just don't pick and choose and let somebody else tell you it means this to you.

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So, but I tried, I tried, and then I said, okay, that means,

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Lord, you're not going to let me go blind. Well, I went to other doctors, retinologists in Memphis, and one of them said, you won't go blind.

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Okay. Well, there you go. I said, okay, I knew I wasn't going to.

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Well, I'm going to tell you, when I realized I was going blind, my

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Wallace, wonderful anger attitude came out.

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And I was mad at God. I was doubting his existence, because I looked at it like this.

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I said, okay, I have no husband. I have no mother. My dad died two years after my mom died.

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I have no dad. I have no money. I'll have no insurance. Yeah, God, what's this about?

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Yeah. And so, someone was showing interest in me.

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I didn't know he was as young as he was, and he didn't know I was as old as I was. But, so I just went out with him and started my own ways.

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Not for very long, of course. But, you know,

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I just thought, okay. And then God allowed me to go to the hospital, which, you know, part of May, and then

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I got out. And then part of June, all of July, part of August, and then

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I had to go back and forth to Memphis every week to have all this stuff cut out of my abdomen.

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Because not only was I blind then, I also had an appendicitis.

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And God was showing me that he was bigger than I was. That I couldn't run away from him.

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He knew exactly where I was. I thought, maybe if I just ran fast and took off, that he couldn't catch me.

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Obviously, I didn't see the God of the Bible too fully, did I? Well, I know that was very personal for you to share with us, and I really appreciate you being open to that.

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But, God showed me. And I'm going to tell you, he even took my doubt away after that.

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I mean, I'm not saying I don't still have doubts here and there, but they didn't plague me like they did.

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Well, every time graduation comes and I see a sermon about Jeremiah 29 -11,

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I'm just like, oh no. Because I do. I think that can be almost soul -crushing. Detrimental!

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Yes, it can. I'm here to testify to that truth.

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You've been blind for nearly 40 years, walking with the

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Lord. So, you've talked a little bit about the quote -unquote cassettes.

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I'll Google that when we get off the phone. Okay. So, would you mind just telling us about your

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Bible habits then, since you've been blind? What does that look like, since you obviously can't put your eyes on the page?

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What does that look like? Right. Well, as my pastor friend used to help me with, he would say,

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Chrissy, put it in context. And I would say, Cuatro. Putting it in context is a little bit harder, because I have a worm's eye view of whatever

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I'm reading. I'm right where I am, and I'm looking at it. So, you read on cassette?

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Well, see, I have CDs. And then I make a cassette from a

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CD and bring it into my chair, have a tape player. And now, to get those little tape players that I have had for umpteen years, now,

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I have to buy them online, and they cost twice as much as they used to.

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But I still like them, because they're small, they're easy to get to, and there's something different about a

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CD, portable CD. It's just not as simple for a blind person who has calloused fingers from all the blood checking to be able to handle it as easily.

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So are you listening to, let's just use a book of the Bible, it's Philippians, are you listening to the whole book, are you listening to sections, are you listening to chapters?

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I listen to chapters. And then, is that your goal? Do you have goals for, say, 2018,

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I'm going to listen to the whole Bible, or I'm going to listen to these books, or how does that work for you? Well, it works differently for me, because I used to read through the

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Bible every about two and a half to three years. But, I mean,

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I don't want to, and if I want to stop at the book of Ecclesiastes and go through it and go through it, because sometimes

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I will want to memorize chapter 7 of Ecclesiastes, because it's a beautiful, beautiful book.

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And, I mean, I know it's man's perspective, but it is a beautiful book of poetry.

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And it is wisdom literature, and it is great.

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Chapter 7, I'll tell you, this verse I use at least with four or five different people in a week.

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Who can straighten what the Lord has made crooked? When times are good, be happy.

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But, when times are bad, consider, God has made one as well as the other.

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Therefore, a man can discover nothing about his future. Now, that tells me,

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Chrissy, you're going to have good times, you're going to have bad times. Remember, I'm in charge, you're not.

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And when times are hard, you remember, I've allowed this, just like I've allowed all the good in your life.

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And because I have, you're not going to figure it out, so quit striving, girl.

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You quit striving. You trust in me, even when you don't understand.

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And I did not know that well enough when I was going blind. And I was being mistaught.

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Right. And, you know, I just have a problem. I still have a besetting sin, and it is anger to this day.

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Chrissy, do you read Braille? No. Okay. My other question—

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And I really couldn't, let me tell you, because my fingers are all— All. I've been checking my blood sugar since,

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I mean, 1980. Right. And because of that, my fingers are so callous, and I've got neuropathy, and I've got

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Dupuytren's contractures, so my hands aren't really good to be able to do those kinds of things.

37:11

A real practical question, because you've listened to so much of the Bible, do you find that certain—what will be the right terminology?

37:25

A person's accent, do you listen to the same person reading the Bible, or do you listen to different people reading the

37:33

Bible? Like, where do you get the—I mean, I know you said you get it CDs made into cassettes, but is it a certain person reading the

37:42

Bible that you like to listen to? Or is it a dramatic reading? Well, see, a lot of mine is dramatic.

37:50

I have the New King James Version with Stacey Teach, who is the other guy,

37:59

Michael York, you know, just all of those people. I mean, I have that.

38:08

I've had—since Zondervan put out the cassettes, and this is ages ago, for dramatic reading.

38:18

So there are lots of different people reading different parts. And it's got the music, and it's got all kinds of things.

38:27

Genesis is absolutely beautiful to listen to, because,

38:32

I mean, it is— Well, the first 11 chapters of the Bible, that's a lot of stuff in there.

38:39

What exhortation would you give to someone? Let's say someone's listening to this podcast. They're being convicted a little bit like I am about just hearing how much you treasure the

38:50

Word and the hoops that you have to go through to actually hear it. What exhortation would you give to a believer that is just kind of like,

38:59

Oh, you know, it's just my day's so busy. It's so hard to find time to read the

39:04

Bible. It's just—what maybe exhortation would you give? Well, first of all, I would say,

39:10

I think it's in Psalm 138, you have exalted your name and your word above all things.

39:22

And that is enough. And then, all we have to do is remember what the perfect God -man did on our behalf when

39:35

He had done nothing wrong. And we can say, He is worthy of our very lives, much less 30 minutes, an hour, a day to pray and to read.

39:54

And I'm not saying I do this every day. I have insulin reactions where my brain isn't even working some days.

40:01

But I'm still going to say, God is worth it.

40:07

And if we just think about all He did so that we may have freedom to live life

40:16

His way, not that we all do it every day, but that we could have the freedom to be able to, empowered by His spirit, reading

40:28

His written word that many people have died so we would have that word.

40:36

Thank you for that. Okay, so I kind of want to move the conversation a little bit toward something else.

40:43

And I want to ask you, because pastors have a certain perspective, but I think laypersons have a perspective as well, and so we just kind of want to get your perspective on the state of, let's say,

40:59

I mean, I say the rural church, but I mean, anywhere in Arkansas is a rural church, really, honestly.

41:06

I know there are some bigger churches, but we're all, you know, but let's just ask it this way.

41:11

For the most part. For the most part, the state of the church. What are some feedback you might have for your opinion on where the church is at in Arkansas?

41:24

I'm just talking about local churches in general. What's your thought? What are some pros? What are some cons? What have you seen in 2017

41:30

Bible Belt churches that you are excited about and that you're maybe concerned about?

41:39

Well, first of all, I mean, I made all my points in speech class in the ninth grade by constructive criticism.

41:50

So instead of going that direction, I'm going to start off with some of the pros.

41:56

The thing that I see in small churches in the

42:02

South, in Arkansas, is the fact that for the most part, people know one another.

42:11

We know even to the point of strengths in a person and weaknesses in a person.

42:18

But we know we have strengths, we have weaknesses. So we can say that it helps us to connect and to not go overboard on being hypercritical.

42:39

And that comes from a hypercritical person. So you say just like the interpersonal relationships are strong.

42:49

I mean, you know, yes, they're strong because you really know each other. And, you know, it's kind of like a dating relationship.

42:58

When you go out with someone, they see you on your best behavior.

43:06

You know, that can just be, I mean, even if you date someone for two years, that can still be a part of that.

43:16

But I'm saying in a church, you're there every time you have a service, for the most part.

43:27

And because you are, you know that person, you know their strengths, you know their weaknesses.

43:34

But you're still, you know there is a connection. That's a good thing. I would never make it in a mega church.

43:42

Do you think, Ms. Prissy, just listening to your testimony a while ago, do you think it seemed like from what you were saying, like what the

43:53

Lord used to draw you is obviously the truths of Scripture, but he used those relationships.

44:00

Because you talked about the guy that you were meeting with that you were asking questions and then going to the pastor's home.

44:09

It seems like that was the gospel. I mean, it wasn't like they handed you a tract and you just repented and believed right there.

44:20

But it was this process of being in relationship. You talked about even being in the parsonage there, just talking to them and spending time together.

44:29

Right. And so, I guess maybe what I'm asking is, do you think that that's the direction our churches are going in or need to be going in?

44:40

Or maybe we're not doing that? I mean, today. I will say today, everybody is too busy.

44:49

I would say, I mean, everybody has, I mean, kids don't even get to go home, it seems like, anymore around here.

45:01

They're going to this ballgame, to that soccer game, to this thing, to that thing.

45:07

And there's no home life, almost. And so, when there's not much home life, families are taken down a bit.

45:17

So, relationships can be much less than maybe they used to be.

45:25

And I see that as a real weakness. But I also see that oftentimes,

45:32

I mean, God knows what He's doing in all of our lives. And He can connect us with the person we wouldn't even think of being connected with.

45:42

Apart from, you know, God just directing all this.

45:49

And so, we know that we are to love one another, admonish one another, encourage one another, exhort one another.

45:58

We're to help one another. And because I'm blind, and I have lots of doctor's appointments and dental appointments and all that,

46:08

God has given me people who are willing to do much for me.

46:16

I would be so bothered. My sister, nobody has a clue.

46:22

She is a diabetic with retinopathy, as am I. But yet, she does so much for me.

46:30

And when other people come, and they're willing to do for me, I don't consider that just for me.

46:37

I consider that for me and for Carol. And I consider that every good gift is from above, coming down from the

46:47

Father of heavenly light, who does not change like shifting shadows.

46:53

And, you know, so I know that everything that I have,

46:59

God has given me. But I was just going to say, and with our churches, we have lots of relationships in most of them.

47:13

But still yet, everybody's busy. And when you, all you know is when you go to, quote, go to church as if we're not the church.

47:22

And then you leave, and you don't, you're not there again until the next

47:29

Sunday or Wednesday or whenever. That is not a good way of really developing strong relationships.

47:38

It's hard to be with one another, isn't it? Right. We can't be friends with everybody there.

47:45

And so if you have two, three, four people where, like, maybe you're meeting in a

47:52

Bible study together, then that's when the deep streaks of a relationship grow.

48:03

And I think that's a plus in small churches. Now, the thing that I think is not good in small churches, because I have a tendency to be a type

48:17

A, don't ever want to sit down, and always, you know, wanting to get something done, get this done, get this done, get this done.

48:28

Well, you know, God doesn't want you. I mean, He says, aren't you supposed to be about my business?

48:36

What is this about? You've got to get all of this done. You know, if you push people out, then you're not being what

48:45

God has really called us all to do. We're to be encouragers to different people, not to the whole church, necessarily.

48:55

Well, maybe I missed your point on that. What were you trying to say in that?

49:03

Well, I was going to say, just like the pluses we have in small churches, we also have negatives.

49:11

We have negatives of people who are controllers, people who think

49:18

God has assigned them to the church to be the people that straighten everybody else out.

49:28

Because, you know, we might say of those people, sometimes they may have a little bit of narcissistic personality disorder.

49:38

So you're talking about a negative aspect in the church, then, being the control.

49:45

I guess maybe in a particular smaller church, it might be almost easier. You notice it more there.

49:51

It may even be easier with some of the structures. Right. And it probably is, really.

49:59

No, go ahead. I've seen churches, you know, like real, real small and a little bit larger have those same problems.

50:14

But, of course, I'm used to Gillette and DeWitt. Well, what would you say, then, from your perspective?

50:21

This might put you on the spot a little bit, but what is the greatest need in churches today?

50:29

You know churches in Arkansas. Okay. I'm going to tell you, I think the greatest need is for the people that claim to be a part of the local church and God's universal church.

50:48

Universal sounds kind of spooky, to say it that way. His Catholic church.

50:56

Whoa, whoa. Now, I'm not talking about Roman Catholic, I'm talking about Catholic Catholic.

51:02

But anyway, I think the weakest point is that we say we're believers, and yet we do not have time for our

51:14

Heavenly Father. We do not have time to fix our eyes upon Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith.

51:23

We do not have time to be helpful to one another, to encourage, to listen to, to even sometimes let someone vent.

51:36

Because, you know, God gave us each other for lots of great reasons.

51:43

And if a person, all they ever want to do is vent, then as a real friend, we must say, you know, right now,

51:58

I would like you to go read this chapter of the Bible, and then let's talk about some of what it says.

52:06

You know, do everything without grumbling or complaining. The more I try to throw that out of my

52:13

Bible, the more emboldened it becomes. Well, we had this discussion today in our men's meeting about, take care, brothers,

52:24

Hebrews 3 .12, take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living

52:31

God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it's called today, that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

52:38

So, you would say, then... Do you know, that is just what I went over in my women's Bible study yesterday.

52:44

We're doing War of Words by Paul Tripp, and that was the scripture on confrontation.

52:55

Well... I mean, he gives us one another for that reason. So, you're saying the greatest need or the greatest issue, maybe, in the church are people claiming to be believers, but not having the, quote -unquote, time to be a believer.

53:11

Is that essentially? Right. Yeah. And you know what I do with that sometimes? This isn't really good, but I say, you're not my brother.

53:20

You're not my sister. I mean, I know that's judgmental, and I know what my

53:26

Bible says. Mercy precedes, and that's what it says in my Bible, mercy precedes triumph over judgment.

53:34

Well, there's certainly... love does cover a multitude of sins. However, there is a time and place, especially in the context of the local church, where at one time you...

53:47

Well, we might even talk about the recovery of church discipline, but the need to say, look, by all accounts given to us, you're not a believer as you continue in this unrepentant state.

53:59

But, Eddie, what would you add to that, or questions for Prissy in what she said on that?

54:08

Well, no, I was just listening to you guys, and I would just agree totally with all of what you guys were saying there.

54:19

Do you know what Billy Graham said long ago? I don't. I mean, long ago. He said, in the churches in America, probably 80 % to 90 % of the people are not believers.

54:34

Right. Now, that was a long time ago. And now, as we have excuses for everything, excuses for everything, that has to become more and more of a true...

54:54

what would you call it? I mean, it's sad, yes, and it's horribly sad.

55:03

It's like everybody in the Bible Belt knows. They know.

55:08

I know I should be in church. The right answers. I know I need to read the Bible. I know I should be living right, but they don't do it.

55:16

It's really, I mean, of course this would be a whole other episode, but really a systemic problem of, look, let me just say these right words and then go on about my day.

55:26

God's off my back now. So, I know that that's a problem.

55:31

So, we've been talking nearly an hour now. We usually do about 40 minutes.

55:39

But I knew it was going to be long. You didn't have me on here before, did you? No. But I want to, and you know this, but I just want to publicly and personally thank you for just your influence on my life.

55:53

And what maybe some, just maybe final thoughts or exhortations that you would give to just the 15 people that might listen to this podcast.

56:05

What are just some final exhortations? You know, if you could just, here's your chance. You've got an opportunity to tell some people a couple of things that maybe you will never meet in your life, probably won't ever meet.

56:18

What would you just, what final exhortations would you give them? I would say the people of the book.

56:28

The people who come to know God and come to give

56:35

Him the love that is due Him. And we can never do it well enough because we've got the flesh, and the flesh is always at war with the spirit.

56:47

But God has an answer for us everywhere.

56:53

Now, He doesn't have an answer to, God, why did you allow this person that I love to die?

57:02

I mean, He's got reasons why He doesn't. We're not going to know this side.

57:08

We need to look at Job and learn from him. But throughout the

57:15

Word, God has great jewels. And, you know, if we just kept up with some of the little easy threes that He puts in the

57:28

Word. What does the Lord require of you but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your

57:35

God? And then, like Isaiah 66 too, this is the one

57:41

I esteem, says the Lord. He who is humble and contrite in spirit and who trembles at my

57:50

Word. And that right there, you know, I can love His Word and, you know, read it or not read it or this or that.

58:00

But you go, this is the one I esteem. It's when you go to His Word, you know that this book was kept for you.

58:12

So you could know the God of the Word. And so you can look upon Him knowing that He has you covered until He takes you home.

58:27

And then it will be greater than all we can think or imagine.

58:33

And we know that is true. And I just say, love Him. Come to love

58:40

Him more fully. That's a prayer I have for myself. I want to be a woman like Caleb was a man.

58:47

I want to be a woman who is wholeheartedly devoted to the

58:53

Lord. Wholeheartedly. I've never done one thing wholeheartedly yet.

58:59

But I know that's important. That is great. And, you know,

59:06

I just, I don't know. I think we are, we have become very anemic in our faith.

59:18

And we need to recommit our lives anew.

59:26

Just like it says in Revelation 2, we need to repent from where we have fallen.

59:35

And we need to return. We need to remember from where we've fallen. We need to repent, to turn back, and walk humbly with our

59:47

God. He's done everything for us. How can we say we don't have time for Him?

59:53

Wow. Wow. Wow, Prissy. That is very, very sobering, encouraging, and all the like.

01:00:02

I really, really appreciate that. I really appreciate you taking the time to just be with us. I know it's not always easy for you, and you've got a lot of things going.

01:00:11

Eddie, would you want to follow up with anything? Any questions, thoughts, comments from that? No, I just, you know,

01:00:19

I was just thinking about, you know, Prissy's testimony and how the Lord used these vital relationships to bring her into a relationship with Himself.

01:00:31

And then within the church, you know, we talked about, she talked to us about, you know, good things and some hard things in the church.

01:00:40

And, you know, I think those relationships, that connection that we have with God's people through our surrounding around God's Word and our worshiping of our great

01:00:52

God and King, you know, Psalm 133, one says,

01:01:01

And I just think that is what the church ought to be, the dwelling together of the brethren in unity around God's Word and worship of God.

01:01:11

And that's just what I heard as Prissy shared her testimony, and just the importance of God's Word drawing together

01:01:21

God's people. And that doesn't matter the size. That doesn't matter the size of your church. No. Being people of the book, that is a, you know, isn't it a tragedy?

01:01:30

We're coming up here on 500 years since the Reformation. And if you want to think about how long have God's people had the 66 canonical books of Scripture in a language that they could understand, if you take the whole realm of Christian history of 2 ,000 years, it's not a very big chunk of that, that all, that people have had the

01:01:52

Bible in their own language, all 66 books, like we do. And it is a tragic thing to whom much is given, much is required.

01:02:00

And so one of the reasons I wanted to have you on, Prissy, is just because I know your love for the Word, and yet you have this great obstacle in that you can't read the

01:02:10

Word. I can't even study. I can't look up passages, you know, over here.

01:02:16

And that is a real obstacle. But guess what? I can still get

01:02:23

CDs of people and listen to their messages, and it's great.

01:02:31

Isn't it, Pastor Cuatro? And you can still hide the Word in your heart. Isn't that amazing?

01:02:36

Yes. Oh, yes. That God has given us a book. So, well, do you have any final things you want to say before we wrap it up here?

01:02:47

Me? Yes, ma 'am. Oh, not really. I just want to say

01:02:53

I am far from a great follower of the

01:03:01

Lord, because, I mean, I still have the anger issue, all kinds of problems.

01:03:09

I mean, I really do have real problems. And can I say one thing?

01:03:15

I was listening to someone the other night, Kim Clinton, who is a psychologist.

01:03:22

You know, he's a doctor of psychology, and I know we all have different ideas on those things. But this one psychiatrist who is on there talking, and I've heard him two different times, the same message.

01:03:34

But he does all this study on the brain.

01:03:40

And the brain, they have taken, I guess, well,

01:03:47

I don't think it would be an MRI, maybe a scan, but they have shown how people, let's say, that are older and are dealing with chronic depression, when they,

01:04:03

I mean Christian ones, but when they start meditating on the love that God has for them, 15 minutes per day, their brains change.

01:04:20

Not on the wrath of God, which wrath is against sin. It's not against His people.

01:04:27

That's good. But you can change your brain for good.

01:04:36

And if it's the end in itself, then you're probably going to come to a few different problems.

01:04:44

But I think everybody would do himself good to think upon how great, how long and deep and wide is the love of God.

01:04:57

We see that in the gospel, you know. I mean, I think,

01:05:03

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but I think you might be saying to us that we would all do well to meditate deeper on the gospel and understanding the love of God as shown to us in the gospel.

01:05:16

Yes. Where would we be without the good news? Wow. Well, Prissy, it's always a joy to talk to you.

01:05:27

I was going to talk about your prayer ministry, but I guess we can't. If you really believe the church is the building, the church is the house, the church is what

01:05:41

God's doing. This is His work. If we really believe what Ephesians says, we are the hoemos, the masterpiece of God.