September 11, 2017 Show with Pastors Ron Glass & Kirk Van Der Swaagh with “The Pastors’ Roundtable: God’s Sovereignty over 9/11”

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now, here's our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 11th day of September 2017. And today, because of the fact that we are once again commemorating the worst terrorist attack on American soil from a foreign enemy in United States history on September 11th, 2001, we are having the first Pastors Roundtable on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio since we left New York and relocated here to Pennsylvania.

This is a feature of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio that was very popular when we were broadcasting out of WNYG and WGBB radio in New York, and I intend to perhaps have it as either a weekly or monthly feature.

I haven't decided yet, but this will be the first of, God willing, I hope, many Pastors Roundtables to come. And I want to thank our guests for being willing to accept the invitation to participate in this Pastors Roundtable at very late notice.

I was intending to actually run a rerun today of last year's September 11th Iron Sharpens Iron program featuring David Carnes. Some of you may remember Staff Sergeant David Carnes, who was one of the heroes involved, in fact, the primary hero who was involved in rescuing some transit police officers who were trapped beneath the rubble of one of the Twin Towers that collapsed on 9 -11.

David Carnes is a born-again believer, and I had him on the program last year. In fact, if any of you saw the movie Twin Towers with Dennis Cage, I believe that's his name. If any of you saw that movie, Staff Sergeant David Carnes had a very primary role in that film.

Not the actual David Carnes, the character of David Carnes was a primary role in that film. And so today we are going to do a Pastors Roundtable program addressing that very same issue, in fact, with more of a theological bent to it.

This year, our September 11th broadcast is on the theme, God's Sovereignty over 9 -11, and we have featured on our panel today Pastor Ron Glass of Wading River Baptist Church of Wading River, Long Island, New York, Pastor Kirk Vanderswag of Neighborhood Church of Greenwich Village, New York City, and the Reverend Buzz Taylor, who you've all heard as our regular co-host on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Today he is going to be more of a co-guest, if you will, or a panel member on the Pastors Roundtable. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question regarding this very important topic, and very controversial topic, and very misunderstood topic, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.

And please, as always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. If it makes you feel more comfortable, you may remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter, and obviously a subject like this could lend itself to someone wanting to ask a personal and private matter, especially if your life was dramatically affected because of 9 -11, especially in 2001.

But other than that, other than a personal and private matter, please at least give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence. By the way, I do have to quickly give a thanks to you in the audience who have answered the SOS, if you will, or responded to the SOS that Iron Sharpens Iron radio has been giving out daily due to our urgent need for new donations and benefactors and advertisers.

Well, the checks have been slowly but surely coming in again, and I thank God for you taking heed to those public appeals for donations. And we've got donations coming in from listeners that I have never heard from before, who have never donated to my knowledge before, nor have they even sent in emails with questions for our guests before.

So these are new people to me, one from Shirts, Texas, one from Portersville, California, and thank you for sending in those greatly needed checks. And I thank all of the other listeners in our audience, not only who have been praying for Iron Sharpens Iron to receive the needed funds required to keep this program on the air, but also those who actually sent in checks yourself.

And I have received a number of emails from a number of you who have told me that you are sending in checks, and I thank God for you. So before we go into the topic, let me introduce our panelists today.

First, we have one of my dearest friends on the planet Earth and his congregation, Waiting River Baptist Church, you hear regularly advertised on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Without the generosity of Waiting River Baptist Church and Waiting River Long Island, New York, Iron Sharpens Iron Radio would likely not even exist.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens.

Iron Radio, Pastor Ron Glass of Waiting River Baptist Church. Thanks, Chris. It's a privilege.

To be with you today. It's a privilege and honor, as always, to have you as a part of the broadcast. And also, an old friend of mine who I haven't spoken with in quite a while. And it's great to have you for the first time, I believe, ever on my program, unless I'm forgetting a program when we were in New York that you were on.

But Pastor Kirk Vanderswag is the pastor of Neighborhood Church of Greenwich Village, New York City. And Neighborhood Church is a member of the Four Seas denomination. And it's an honor and privilege to have you on the program,.

Pastor Kirk Vanderswag. Well, thank you, Chris. No, I don't think I've been on a previous program. I think we tried to connect a couple of times, but it hasn't happened yet. But thank you for.

The invitation today. Oh, it's my pleasure to have you on the program. And in fact, I wanted to have you on for quite a while, as you know, and providentially that things didn't work out until now. But I'm glad that you are with us.

Pastor Ron Glass, we'll start with you in getting a little bit of a description of Wading River Baptist Church of Wading River, Long Island, New York, for those of our listeners who haven't heard you on previous programs.

It is about two thirds of the way out. Yes, it does seem to be more of a rare thing.

And believe it or not, Pastor Ron, I don't know if I don't remember if you brought this up on your interview on the Millennials and why many of the Millennials are rejecting church attendance in the gospel.

I was at a conference not long ago where one of the speakers who has done a lot of research on the Millennials, who has a campus ministry, he was directing a campus ministry in Princeton, Princeton University in New Jersey.

I don't know if he's still operating that right now, but he said something quite fascinating during the conference. He said that Millennials, because they tend to be very skeptical of being conned by slick salesmen and all that kind of thing.

He was telling me that quite a number of Millennials are actually longing for the traditional worship, such as the kind of worship you offer at Wading River Baptist Church, because they want, if they are being drawn by God and they are looking for a church, if they are looking for a place to worship and a place to discover and learn about God, if that is a part of what they are searching for due to God's drawing, they tend to want something that is not reflective of their everyday social life and common activity in their day-to-day lives.

They are looking for something that is more uniquely reflective of worship and of faith and so on, that stands out from the rest of their common activities. Have you found this to be true? Have you heard of this?

Pastor Ron? Pastor Kurt Von Der Swarga, are you there? I am here. Oh, somehow we lost Pastor Ron. Well, hopefully Pastor Ron will be joining us back. Pastor Ron, are you there?

I am. Oh, well, I'm glad you called back. Well, to make what I said brief,.

I have heard that many Millennials are searching for just the kind of church that Wading River Baptist Church is because of the fact that something that would be against our gut feeling, something that would militate against what we might naturally think, Millennials are very often looking for traditional worship.

If God is drawing them and they are seeking for truth about God and to worship biblically, they don't want something that just merely parrots or reflects common use. The concerts they go to in their social life and so on, they don't want the worship to reflect that.

Have you heard about this phenomenon or discovered.

It yourself? Yes, and I would simply, and I have talked to a program, some of these Millennials are doing Eastern Orthodoxy, and that's part, but that's another. Yeah, well, after the show's over,.

I'd like to take out my calendar and get you scheduled very soon. Pastor Kurt Von Der Swarga, tell us about Neighborhood Church of Greenwich Village in New York City, and also about the.

Four C's denomination of which you are a part. Well, our church is located right in, and we're a 23 as a kind of mid early 90s, a congregational model, which form, which was knowledge of those and a belief co-moderator.

I'm going to test my memory. So I'm sorry, was somebody saying something? I'm sorry. If our brother could remind us, what do the four C's stand for? I was actually going to.

Say that because I wanted to test my memory. Is it Conservative Christian Congregational Congress?

It's Conservative Congregational Christian Conference. Conference. And if you want to, just how that came about, I can give that very briefly. Larger group. Again, four C's became an entity, the church's entity back in, and another merger.

And I'm going to.

Repeat our email address. It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question. And in studio with me is the Reverend Buzz Taylor, who normally is a co-host when he's on the program, but today he's going to be one of our panelists.

Why don't you tell, I know that you're not pastoring right now, Reverend Buzz Taylor, but you have pastored several churches at least. Why don't you tell us something about.

Your background as a pastor? I started as an assistant pastor in an independent Baptist church after graduating from Bob Jones University. And then my first senior pastor, it was in suburb, way out, about 45 miles outside of Buffalo in a little town called Sandusky.

And if you go 10 miles away from Sandusky and say you're from Sandusky, they say Ohio. So one of the, anyway, those of you who live there understand that. But then I pastored a church in the Churches of God, Finley, Ohio.

The church was actually in Pennsylvania, Auburn, Pennsylvania. And then my last pastor was when I was still living up in Maine. I was unfortunately trucking at the same time because it was not a self-supporting church.

And when my company sent me over the road, I had to stop pastoring, but I was pastoring a Reformed Presbyterian church in Fayette, Maine. And then that brought me down here, and I've been attending a PCA church since I've been here.

Great. Well, I'd like to start off the program with having each of you give a summary of where you were when you heard about that horrific attack on the World Trade Center. And the Pentagon building. And of course, there was also a plane that was forced down by the passengers who heroically basically attacked the terrorists in order to prevent them from bringing about further harm in a terrorist attack.

And they basically gave their lives in bringing that plane down here in Pennsylvania. But let's start with you, Pastor Glass. What were the circumstances surrounding your first hearing about a September 11th attack in 2001?

Because I was actually in my car headed about a quarter till.

Now, I know that you are some distance from New York City being in the towards the eastern end of Suffolk County, although there's a lot more east of you on Long Island, quite a ride all the way out to the end of Long Island heading east if you were to leave your church parking lot.

So you're not exactly on the eastern end. I'm sorry? We're about 80 miles from Manhattan. Okay. Well, yeah, that is one of the reasons I was wondering if you had anybody in your congregation affected by that attack.

I know it's a far distance, but there are still people I know that commute to New York City from a lot of places on Long Island.

One of our, it was actually the first father-in-law was trying to go out to lunch with me. I married. One of the reasons I was meeting when he was located on the 100.

Wow. And I want to let our listeners know that I had no clue about this story before the program. This was quite a providential thing for me to ask you because you never, to my knowledge, informed me of that story.

Quite sad. Kirk Wonderswag, you were, I'm pretty certain, you were pastoring even back then in New York City, right in Greenwich Village there. What can you say about when you first heard about the 9 -11 attack and if there are any members of your congregation who were either perished or somehow negatively or dramatically.

Affected by that? I mean, I literally heard my family was down on the front stoop. My most vivid memory was when one fellow who came in, it was just came in. But then our neighborhood, we were evacuated from Washington, D .C. area.

We were told we'll walk out. When I got to the Grand Canyon, I remember I got there just a day on that Sunday. Okay. When I return from the break,.

I'll ask Reverend Buzz Taylor the same question. And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question or perhaps even just a comment, something that you want to share about your own experience about September 11th, 2001, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name as always, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. Don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back after these messages with the pastor's roundtable on Iron Trumpet's Iron Radio.

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God, or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

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Radio. Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 pm eastern time on WLIE radio. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study.

Because everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back. This is Chris Arns. And if you just tuned in to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, today we are having our very first pastor's roundtable since we relocated from New York to Pennsylvania.

And we're reviving an old tradition that seemed to be very popular in our days of broadcasting and of New York. And our featured panel members on our pastor's roundtable today are Pastor Ron Glass of Wading River Baptist Church of Wading River, New York, Pastor Kirk Vonderswag of Neighborhood Church of Greenwich Village, and Reverend Buzz Taylor, who is retired from the ministry and the frequent co-host on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is ChrisArnson at gmail .com. ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Our theme is God's Sovereignty over 9 -11. And I just recalled after hearing that commercial from Pastor Bill Shishko, that's where I first came into contact with you, Pastor Vonderswag, way back in the early 1990s when Pastor Bill used to have his annual minister's fellowship.

And Bill used to invite me to those even though I was never a pastor because of my work in Christian radio. And he always wanted me to be there to be able to direct pastors to promote their congregations where they were serving as pastor in order to give a wider audience to those pastors.

And Pastor Bill has radio in his blood and he believes that it's a very powerful medium, which it is. And so that's why he invited me every year. And I recall that's where our friendship began. And I'm glad to have you finally on the program.

We, oh yeah, we're going to Reverend Buzz Taylor's own experiences on when he first heard, where he was and how he first heard of the dreaded attack on American soil here on September 11, 2001.

Well, I was a yard jockey at a plant at the time up in Auburn, Maine. And I was listening to the radio and I heard the news that a plane had hit the World Trade Center. And I didn't know if it was a Piper Cub or what, you know, and I thought, well, what's the matter?

Was the pilot blind or what? You know, how did he not see that? And I went in and told some folks in the office there, I said, hey, a plane just ran into the World Trade Center. Everybody's like, oh, that's interesting.

And I went out to the truck and then I heard about the second plane. It's like, oh boy, this is more than I thought it was. And I went back in and told them another plane has just struck the Trade Center.

And of course, at that point, all work stopped and all the radios came on. And so I listened to it for the rest of the day and I wasn't able until after work to actually get home and see on TV what was going on.

It was just, I couldn't believe my eyes when I was watching, you know, that it happened on our soil. But I was far enough away to where I didn't know anybody involved, of course, you know, being up in Maine.

So nobody in my congregations was there or anything like that. But still, it was just as traumatic, you know, to hear that kind of news.

And things were kind of quiet at home after that. I remember where I was. I was in my office in my home. And that day I was supposed to be at a sales meeting in New Jersey. I'm trying to remember if WMCA radio where I worked was in Rutherford at that time or in Hasbrook Heights because it moved while I was working there over the 15-year period that I was there.

It moved from Rutherford to Hasbrook Heights. And I think we were possibly in our new Hasbrook Heights location. But I was supposed to be in New Jersey that day because every week we had a sales meeting there.

And that was one of the sales meeting days. And providentially, I got a call from my sales manager the night before. He said that the meeting is canceled. Stay home. So I was home and was sitting at my computer.

And all of a sudden, I started to get emails one after another from a very good friend of mine, Pastor Ed Moore of North Shore Baptist Church in Bayside, Queens, who I was hoping to have also included on the panel today.

But he's at a conference in New Jersey right now. But I was getting these emails from him. And then I decided to look more closely at the subject line. And they all said, pray for families in our church who are in the Twin Towers.

Like, why on earth is he asking me to pray about that? And then I opened up one of the emails. And he basically was saying, I'm sure that most of you know by now that the Twin Towers are on fire due to a plane crash in one of the towers.

And it is uncertain if it's a terrorist attack yet. We have family members who are working in those Twin Towers who are members of our church. Please pray that they escape safely. So then I said, well, I got to turn on the news.

And I grabbed the remote control, clicked on the TV set. And I was staring at the film of the Twin Towers on fire. But at the bottom of the screen, it said the Twin Towers have fallen. And I was like puzzled there.

I was like, how could they be falling? I'm looking at them right now on fire. But obviously, they were showing footage from earlier that morning. And that's how that all began, how I discovered what had happened on that horrific day.

And then I later found out that a family that moved from the church where I was a member, Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York, I had heard that a family who had moved to Pennsylvania, that the plane had crashed in Pennsylvania, the one that the passengers heroically took down by attacking the terrorists.

That plane had crashed very, very reasonably close to where that family lived in Pennsylvania, I believe it was just a small strip of woods, separating their neighborhood from the crash site. So that was quite an interesting thing that occurred there in Pennsylvania with the members of our former members of our church.

But one of the things I'd like to start with you, Pastor Ron, there is a temptation, well-meaning temptation for people, especially Christians and even more so men in the ministry. They want to reach out with comfort and peace.

And they want to lift the spirits, perhaps say something inspiring to people during calamities such as this, whether they are natural disasters like what was going on in Florida just over the weekend here, and people still dealing with the aftermath of that, or something like 9 -11, where you have actually evil human beings participating in the horrific event.

You have the tendency of people in the ministry, well-meaning, and it's likely, largely, predominantly due to the fact that these ministers and Christians are ill-informed in regard to what the scriptures say in regard to God's sovereignty.

But they will typically, especially the more famous ones like Billy Graham and others, when they are given the opportunity to say something on television, they will say words that really remove God completely out of the situation.

They will be hearing that, you know, I can even recall while working for WMCA that there were some ministers who were invited to record one-minute messages of biblical encouragement after 9 -11, and some of them were saying things that I believe were totally antithetical to what the scriptures teach on God's sovereignty.

Some of these men, even conservative fundamentalists, Baptists, and so on, were saying God had nothing to do with 9 -11. How do you respond to that kind of attempt to remove God from situations like this?

And some of it is because they want to defend His character, defend God's character, and the fact that He is an all-loving God. They don't want to say anything that they believe is going to besmirch the character of God, so they go overboard and actually wind up saying things that are untrue, in my opinion.

How do you respond to that, Pastor Glass, first of all?

Pastor Glass My experience is probably what we deserve. Pat Robertson responded and said, Jerry, that's my fear. The abortionist God will not be mocked. When we destroy 40 million little innocent alternative lifestyles, they'll finger in their face and say, well, I totally concur.

God will never know, which meant you will all did not find any. The second thing He taught us is that natural disasters will all likewise perish. And I think that's the great lesson of 9 -11. It's the great lesson not that we're more evil than the rest, but rather that we're more evil than the rest.

Before I move on to Pastor Vonderswag, would you say, though, in spite of perhaps some of the reckless way that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson responded to this situation I'm no fan of Pat Robertson, I have to be completely honest.

I think in many ways he embarrasses the body of Christ with some of the very heretical things he participates in on his program. And people get the idea that that's what genuine Christianity is. But he has a much smaller audience today.

But I happen to, when hearing those things, even if they were mishandled by those two men, there is a candy coating by many conservative Christians over the sins of America. They may be very pro-life.

They may be very adamantly and aggressively and publicly opposed to Democrats and liberals and so on. But when it comes to the pride of our nation, and turning the correct respect of God, country, or should I say of the country and the American flag and all that, there's I think a dangerous level of idolatry towards this country where great sins like the infanticide going on here through abortion, like the legalization of same sex marriage, which obviously was not in existence during the September 11th attack of 2001, but it is something that's just come about through the progressive deterioration of our culture.

Aren't these things that American citizens, and especially Christians, who need to say, America, we must repent. And these things that may be coming into our country to wreak havoc amongst us, and the calamity and the horror that we see, and what we've seen in 9 -11, but which may come about even in greater measure in the future.

Isn't there a biblical precedent.

With the nation of Israel, for instance, of things like this happening? The thing about it is, God is well-advised to those of us who, let me just say one other thing, there's a lot of thought. There is an amazing man named John McTernan in a book called As America.

You get through it, and you say, this stuff's not coincidental. It can't be. There are too many times where America, and almost immediately, that includes Katrina. I've been reminded about, again, in light of the hurricanes this weekend, and 9 -11, the same thing.

And I was looking, remind myself that there were news stories in this past week about the Trump administration demanding that Israel, given he never has done that. All right, we're going to be returning.

From our break. It's an elongated break because of the requirements of Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM, in Lake City, Florida. And I have to check up on them to make sure all is well down there. I've been checking up on a lot of my friends in Florida, and I will check up on them as well today.

But they require our program in two 54-minute chunks. So we're going on an elongated break. But when we return, we'll hear from Pastor Kirk Vonderswag, and we will hear from Reverend Buzz Taylor about their own thoughts on God's sovereignty over 9 -11.

Don't go away. We're going to be back.

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