March 16, 2023 Show with Virgil Walker on “Is it OK to be White?” AND “A Response to Rick Warren’s Case for Female Elders”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 16th day of March, 2023.

I am so pumped up about the next G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia.

I have been to quite a number of the G3 conferences, Manning and Exhibitor's Booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and it is always an extraordinary blessing in every way, not only to be ministered to by hearing extraordinary preachers, some of the finest preachers alive on the planet

Earth have been featured at the G3 conferences over the years, and not only am

I blessed by that, but I'm always blessed as well, Manning my Exhibitor's Booth, to meet not only people that I've never heard from before who inform me how much they love

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and encourage me greatly, but also to meet listeners that have very often submitted questions but I've never seen face -to -face until they stroll by the booth, and also to have an opportunity to do on -site interviews with some of the men speaking and some of the listeners.

And we're going to be talking about the 2023 G3 National Conference with the

Executive Director of Operations at G3 Ministries, and we're also going to be talking about two themes today.

We're going to start off with the theme, Is it OK to be White? And I will be anxiously waiting to hear the answer to that question as I mop sweat off my brow.

And then in the second half of the program, we're going to have our guest give a response to Rick Warren's case for female elders.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Virgil Walker.

Hey, Chris, I'm honored to be with you, man. Always enjoy our conversations and looking forward to this one as well.

Amen. Well, tell our listeners who may be unfamiliar with G3 Ministries about this phenomenal organization.

We do have, it seems, new listeners joining the audience almost every week from what

I'm gathering from my emails that I receive. So there may be some that are unfamiliar with G3, other than the fact that they're hearing at least three ads every day in my show promoting your conference.

But tell us about G3 Ministries. Yeah, G3 Ministries is a ministry that's been around since about 2012, 2013.

The first conference actually took place in 2013 here on the campus of Praise Mill Baptist Church.

It was the brainchild of Dr. Josh Bice, who is the founder and president of G3 Ministries, but is also the pastor of a local church.

His heart's desire was to bring a theology conference to his local church setting in an effort to expose them to just some of the great preaching that was available.

He had great connections from his days at Southern Seminary and some of the other spaces and places that he had been.

So it was kind of a natural hand -in -glove fit for some great preachers that would come and participate in the conference.

But from the very beginning, he knew that it was something unique about it in that the church holds somewhere in the neighborhood of about 600 people.

And the very first conference was absolutely packed with college students kind of showing up early, sleeping in their cars in an effort to get in.

And he recognized pretty early on that definitely there was something special that was happening in that there were people hungry for sound biblical preaching, teaching, an expositional approach to the

Scriptures, and just sound biblical theology. And it was with that that over the course of years, the conference grew.

G3 stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory. And by 2017, they had to move away from the church, the local church, and move into a convention center.

They had moved to the GICC, the Georgia International Convention Center there in Atlanta, Georgia, where some 2 ,000 -plus people showed up for the 500th anniversary of the

Reformation. And so they were excited about that, and the conference grew.

The thought was that they would return back to the local church, but the demand for attendees at the conference did not enable that to happen.

So each year from 2017 to 2020, right before I came on, the conference has absolutely grown and exploded.

About 5 ,000 -plus joined in 2020. That was about the time

I got tapped on the shoulder for the opportunity to be in the role that I'm in as the Executive Director of Operations.

I maintain oversight and function in my role as I cover all of the conference side of the house.

G3 transitioned in 2020 to not just a conference -based ministry, but a content -producing ministry.

We recognized the need for local church pastors to have a lot of the resources, teaching tools, and things that we put in our exhibit hall.

They needed to have those in their hands, and so it was with that that Josh had in mind to make a shift to move in a direction where we would have

G3 Press, where we are able to publish books, a space where we can publish curricula for everything from homeschool moms to folks who are in Bible studies.

And so we provide a lot of those resources on our website for free. We hired an

Executive Vice President, Editor -in -Chief Scott Anuel. He covers all of the content side.

We do collaborate very often on a number of different key issues, but for the most part,

I handle all of the conferences, all of the workshops that we do, our Expository Preaching Workshop, our

Biblical Worship Workshops, and the like, and so I get a chance to function on that side.

We have a historic church tour happening that will be happening in October as well, so I get the joy of providing that function, and he does a lot of the editing and the books and the publishing and all of those pieces of the puzzle.

So 2021, we had our national conference where 6 ,500 people showed up.

We are now preparing for our national conference, which is in every other year. It's a biennial conference in 2023, and we anticipate,

Chris, and you've been around a long time, so you've actually watched this thing grow. We anticipate somewhere in the neighborhood of about 8 ,500 plus people that will be at the upcoming

G3 conference, September 21st through the 23rd in 2023. Well, as always, you guys have a mind -blowing roster of speakers at this event.

We've got Vodie Baucom, probably one of the finest, not only the finest preachers on the planet

Earth, not even probably, he definitely is, but probably one of the fastest -growing in popularity and in fascination of Christians of all stripes, theologically, who are discovering him and becoming riveted by him.

I am hearing more and more from people who are outside of the circles of the

Reformed faith who ask me, have you ever heard of this guy, Vodie Baucom? I saw him on YouTube.

I am so blown away. It's just amazing. And of course, as his popularity grows on one side of the coin, he's gaining enemies.

I mean, the Bible says, beware when all men speak well of you, and not all are definitely speaking well of Vodie.

Right. You're absolutely right. I mean, the circles he's beginning to travel outside of just our

Christian circles, I'm watching him, he's attending events related to conservatism, entering some of the political spaces, but he's doing so from a standpoint of biblical worldview,

Christian worldview, Christian ethics. He's best known. I learned of him almost a decade or more ago as a cultural apologist.

And so not that he wasn't preaching, but that was the area of his study, and he was phenomenal at it and often gets called by different news media outlets to speak about issues of culture and the like.

And that absolutely is not going to slow down. So you're right. As notoriety of Vodie and men like him begin to increase, he'll be someone that new people are always just now discovering, though you and I have known about Vodie for a decade or more.

Yes. And also on the roster, Steve Lawson, Paul Washer, Phil Johnson, my dear friend of many years, in fact, several decades,

James White, Mike Riccardi, Justin Peters, Ken Ham, Owen Strand, Josh Bice, your boss over there at G3, James Coates, Scott Annual, you and your co -host at the

Just Thinking podcast, Darrell Bernard Harrison, Scott Brown, and Susan Heck.

I have interviewed all of these speakers at some point or another except James Coates.

I hope to get him on the program. And I do have, although I have never interviewed her before,

I have Susan Heck scheduled for an interview on Wednesday, March 29th.

But I hope to get all of the speakers or as many as possible interviewed again prior to the

G3 conference. I just had Scott Brown on last week for the first time as a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron.

We promoted the conference. And so I'm really excited about this.

Yeah. Well, I will tell you, the sooner you get those up, the better. We're going to be adding another 15 -plus speakers to the roster.

What? How is that even possible? Yeah. We don't slow down, and we're trying to gather the best of the best.

And so we've got another list of about 15 additional speakers to add to that.

They'll be in a variety of different spaces and places from plenary sessions to breakouts. We'll even have some panel discussions kind of on the side as well, so just a lot of things that are going to be in the mix.

And there will be a number of additional people that you'll begin to see over the course of the next few months as we slowly announce new speakers, new topics, all related to the main topic, which is the doctrine of the sovereignty of God.

And so as you can imagine, with a theological idea, with a doctrine that large, we have to solicit as many people to cover areas of their specialty as possible.

It's going to be absolutely phenomenal. People will not want to miss this conference. And it's on one of the most important topics that a

Christian could hear preached about and taught, the sovereignty of God.

Absolutely. I can't think of a better topic, subject, and primarily, Chris, it's because of the fact that right now when you look at culture, secular culture,

Christian culture, there are really two waves of attack that are taking place. With culture, in every way, shape, and form,

God's sovereignty is under attack. Issues of gender, things that God's already decided.

He is the creator. He has made the determination of what male and female is and how that's supposed to operate.

Ideas like marriage, he has a clear direction based upon Scripture that that's between one man and one woman in a covenant union for life.

He's made the determination on gender as well. And so as we witness culture militate against these ideas, what they're really against is

God's sovereignty, God's say -so on these matters. And so it's imperative for believers to gather together and understand, not be tossed to and fro by these crazy winds of doctrine that we have out there.

Unfortunately, we're seeing them begin to invade the church. So it's imperative that we gather together, understand the nature of the doctrine of God's sovereignty, understand how to explain these ideas in the various areas where we witness culture is on the move and trying to attack.

We need to have answers for the hope that we have in Christ Jesus. And so it's an opportunity for us to sharpen the sword where that's concerned, get clarity in our minds so that we're not confused.

In addition, I told you it's a two -pronged attack. The first is mainly the one in culture that attacks the sufficiency or rather the sovereignty of God.

The other matter relates in the church to the sufficiency of Scripture. And where Christians fall down and lose it and begin to capitulate, begin to bow the knee to some of these godless ideas and ideologies that the world offers, is that we have neglected the fact that Scripture is sufficient to address these matters.

And so what we begin to appeal to, you and I have talked about it on this show often, we begin to appeal to worldly and godless ideologies that begin to be promoted in the culture.

Ideas around socialism, ideas around critical theory, ideas around critical race theory, gender theory, queer theory, and all of these ideas, these man -made godless ideas, that are nothing more than an excuse for people to engage in their own form of sin.

And so they come up with an idea or a theory. They act as if that theory is equivalent to Scripture.

And unfortunately, Christians, rather than holding tightly to what Scripture says about these things, begin to be soft -hearted about these things, not believing that the

Bible is sufficient to handle these. And then they find themselves duped in the process. Well, this event is going to be held from Thursday, September 21st, through Saturday, September 23rd, in Atlanta, Georgia.

And if you want to register, go to g3men .org, g3men .org. You're going to be hearing ads throughout this broadcast, voiced by my friend

Dr. James R. White, promoting this. And please, please use the promo code

G3ISIR. You will get 30 % off the registration fee if you use the

Iron Trump and Zion Radio promo code G3ISIR. There is a bit of a competition going on between all of the venues and media outlets promoting the

G3 conference. I am smack dab in the middle. I am number 7 out of 13.

They're actually 15, just so you know. So you're right, you're smack dab in the middle. There are 15 folks that are doing this, 13 that were recognized, but yeah, 15 total.

Okay, so I'm actually a little bit better than I thought. But folks, please help me rise up in that list.

As I said, I'm very impressed that I'm beating out Sermon Audio, at least. But please, folks, if you have not yet registered, please register.

In fact, this is an ideal conference for you to bring not only lost friends, but Arminian friends,

Roman Catholic friends, and others who do not believe in the sovereignty of God, at least in the biblical sense of what that truly means.

And who knows, you may be walking out of that place with brethren in Christ who are on the same page with you theologically that were not when you walked through the door originally.

God may use this conference to correct serious theological error and also reignite your own zeal and passion for the truth and further equip you to be even more ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within you.

So please register at g3min .org and use promo code

ISIR. And we are talking, as I said earlier, about two themes today.

We're going to start off with, is it okay to be white? Obviously, this is a rhetorical question, especially when people know who

Virgil Walker is. They know the answer to that question already. If you ask a lot of people today, the answer would be no, it's not okay.

But tell us what drove you to actually discuss this theme that seems on the surface ridiculous.

Yeah, it really is interesting as I kind of begin watching what's taking place.

One, and first of all, just to kind of put some context around it, I think everywhere you look, you're beginning to see what's being called white, cisgender, heteronormative males.

There are all these words to describe what we would call a man or a white guy.

There are all these additional words and labels that are used. All of those are used to provide a category of male, of man in particular, that we believe deserves to be oppressed.

And the reason for that is because in the historic narrative of those who hold to CRT and social justice, that the white male has for so long been the oppressor.

And so in their system, rather than finding any kind of forgiveness, rather than finding any kind of reconciliation, what they have available in their system is oppression.

So rather than seeking, you know, reconciliation of any kind, they have the tools of racism that they believe that they've been abused by, and of whore, they turn those around and use those against who they believe to be the majority.

And so what you have everywhere you turn, whether it's on your favorite news channel, whether it's a comedian in a comic show, whether it's movies, you name the arena.

What you're going to find is that the white males in particular, but whites in general, are talked about in ways that if you would simply reverse the language to some other ethnic group, what was said would be deemed racist on its face.

So it's with that in mind that, you know, I began to think about this thinking, man, there at some point is going to be some backlash.

Either one, you call someone a racist enough, they're going to say, you know what, I'll show you what a racist looks like.

Or two, they're going to buy into all of what is being said about them and believe that in some way, somehow they need to bow their knee and recognize that being white is, you know, again, according to according to current culture is some innate sin that can't be washed away by any means.

And so they're only they're only the only fix to this is a works based righteousness where you're kowtowing and bending the knee to two people of color, so to speak.

It's with that in mind that it was interesting that there was a there was a Twitter rant by a man by the name of Scott Adams.

And so Scott Adams, pretty generic name. Until you understand that the Scott Adams is the same person who is the

American cartoonist and novelist, Scott Adams, who has a series in a news media, newspapers published in thousands of newspapers and magazines all across not just the country, but around the world.

He has a series called Dilbert. And if you've ever looked at cartoons, you've seen his

Dilbert cartoon and maybe a followed it for a while and made note of it from time to time.

He's also an author of several books. He went on Twitter and began talking about his outrage about a

Rasmussen poll. And the Rasmussen poll showed that 46 percent of the people who responded to the poll disagreed or were uncertain about the statement that it's

OK to be white. And so as he navigates this, he's looking at this 46 percent and he's thinking,

OK, 54 percent think it's OK. But 46 percent, a very near majority minority only by a small margin of people of color and blacks who think perhaps it's not

OK to be white. And his rant, he went on to say, if that's the case, just generically speaking, if someone does not care about you or thinks it's not

OK for you to be the skin color you are, or if they don't feel like anything that's been done, historically speaking, on your part or on the part of others who look like you, who are white, then it's probably in the best interest not to be around these people.

He didn't even he was very explicit in his response to this. And he says, you know, just get away from get away from black people.

And, you know, he said this very, very kind of stone faced, very stoic, but very emphatically that, you know, it's time to remove yourself from black people.

And again, he considered these blacks who felt this way about the issue of being white.

He felt that they were a hate group and thought that it would be best to get away from them. Now, he left this up.

And as you can imagine, in our current climate, there was an immediate response and reaction to this.

First of all, the first response was just outrage on Twitter, followed by the thousands of news organizations around the country who carried the

Dilbert cartoon, canceled him immediately, canceled him immediately.

So that was that was the immediate response to his rant. So as I watched this, my initial thought about this,

I was not outraged by anything that he said. I thought that there was probably a bit of logic in what he was saying.

But I was curious as to why, knowing what he knows, as smart as he is and with the level of success that he had, why he would do such a thing.

So it caused me to kind of ponder that issue. And I ended up kind of beginning to write an article posted on the

G3 website, G3men .org, and ask the question, is it OK to be white?

And in the article, I began by going backwards. Historically, I looked at James Brown in 1968.

He recorded a song that that would eventually land six weeks at the top of the charts in 1968 called

Say It Loud. I'm black and I'm proud. And it's a song I've heard numerous times and thought little of it.

Thought, wow, this is this is kind of a great anthem. As I studied it, I recognized this was kind of in during the civil rights era.

This was kind of a Dilbert moment, if you will. Blacks had felt like they were the oppressed and were tired of it.

And this was the anthem to say, hey, I'm going to say it loud. I'm black and I'm proud and I'm not going to deal with or tolerate racism any longer.

So the question I began to pose is, is what we're seeing with with Scott Adams and his

Dilbert response. Is this his you know, is this his James Brown moment? Is this his say it loud?

I'm white and I'm proud. Of course, again, you can't say those kinds of things in our current culture.

But again, I love you know this about me. I love to challenge the status quo. I love to I love to get people to think.

And so I posed the question in the article and began to ask some questions. So that's kind of the background of how this whole reality got started.

By the way, I much prefer James Brown's living in America. Yes, sir.

But we're going to go to our first commercial break right now. If you have a question for Virgil Walker on, is it

OK to be white or anything connected to the woke movement, social justice warriors, et cetera.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. Give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

We'll be right back with Virgil Walker after these messages don't go away. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday, the 23rd.

On a theme that I've been preaching, teaching, writing about and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Annual and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

And there's more great news. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 percent discount off the registration fee.

Go to G3 Min dot org. That's G3 Min dot org. And enter promo code

G3 I S I R. That's G3 I S I R for the 30 percent discount.

Chris Arnzen, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday, the 23rd. The G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

Go to G3 Min dot org and enter promo code G3 I S I R for your 30 percent discount off the registration fee.

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We are in the process of discussing our first topic today, Is it OK to be White? And then later on, we're going to be discussing a response to Rick Warren's case for female elders.

If you have a question, send it to ChrisAronson at gmail .com, ChrisAronson at gmail .com.

We have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who says, Isn't it wrong for a

Christian to be proud about anything other than the cross of Christ, no matter what our nation of origin is, no matter what our skin color or ethnicity?

Are those things worthy to be saying that we are proud of them?

And people very often use the synonyms proud and unashamed, or even proud and grateful, proud and thankful, proud and content, proud and happy.

There's nothing wrong with somebody saying, I am absolutely happy and content, even thankful to God, that I was born into a black family, raised by black parents, and I just love being black.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But I understand where the listener is coming from.

When you throw the word proud in there, it's an odd thing to be proud of when you had nothing to do with it. Right.

Absolutely. I completely agree. In fact, the person who's responding there really kind of went to the kind of response side of what

I delivered in my blog article. I kind of walked through the issue with Scott Adams, the challenge that he had with the 46 percent of those who disagreed with the statement that it's okay to be white.

He labeled them a hate group. He advised whites to stay away from blacks.

He received a tremendous amount of backlash and outrage as a result, being really canceled, removed from thousands of newspapers and places where his cartoon had been featured, costing him untold amounts of money.

In fact, there was an interview that he did days after this kind of outrageous expression.

What he said was, really, it cost him everything as far as Dilbert was concerned.

But he felt that it was important for him to be able to say what it is he felt.

He's a big believer in free speech, but he said free speech isn't free, that there's a high price, a high cost to it that only few are willing to pay.

He had decided, as he went on his Twitter rant, that he was ready to pay it so that he could say what he wanted to say and that people could hear what it is they needed to hear.

He used this moment in the same way that many use Twitter. It's a space to express things that create outrage.

Twitter algorithms increase with the more outrage that can be examined as people give their thoughts.

If you can make the most outrageous claim or make the most outrageous statement, then your tweet gets a lot of likes, goes viral, people like it, and you're the one talked about.

Scott Adams was not an ignorant man. He knew what he was doing.

He did it for a reason and felt that there was something that he needed to say. This guy, while labeled by the media as a right -wing conservative, he was far from it.

In fact, he had done work with the Black Lives Matter organization. He was in support of reparations.

He is in support of affirmative action. He voted for democratic policies and their candidates for years.

This is his own admission. He said he just became disillusioned when he recognized that organizations like Black Lives Matter, he said, and I quote, it became immediately apparent that Black Lives Matter was not a serious organization that cared about solutions, end quote.

He's been on the inside of this thing, seeing it with a clear face, understanding what's taking place, and realizing that for the most part, those who are part of the organization really had every intention of taking advantage of black lives rather than black lives really mattering.

And so it's with that that he wanted to have this moment where he expressed his outrage for the purpose of changing, shifting the conversation and talking about issues that really matter.

After this outburst, he went on a number of different news broadcasts and shows in the weeks following to give his side of the events.

And he admitted that he had no intention of leaving blacks or getting away from blacks.

He even joked that that couldn't be possible. But if anyone knew him or knew his background, he has in the past said a number of incendiary things, all for the purpose of changing the national dialogue, changing the cultural conversation.

And so it's with that that he believes in self -improvement. His worldview is more of a pandeist worldview, which is the idea that God created everything, but that he no longer exists outside of it, that he's actually in everything.

So it's a pandeism. God is in everything. He also believes in kind of the law of attraction as made popular by Oprah Winfrey and the book that she promoted called

The Secret. And those are his worldviews. And so he leveraged issues of ethnicity, issues of what the culture calls race in an effort to examine human beings and human behavior and really challenged people to do the right thing.

At the end of the day, I really, as I examined his approach and his worldview, my thought was all of what he may promote, while there may be some right things that he said and while there may be some valuable ideas that he will share in the way of solutions, at the end of the day, his conclusions fall far short of God's design for mankind.

And so when we think about the fact that we are image bearers of God who've been given dominion and that we're to glorify

God in all we do, if we start from that framework, we no longer see or we no longer differentiate.

Let me say it this way. We no longer appeal to sinful partiality as it relates to ethnicity.

If we understand that we're image bearers of God who've been given dominion by God and that we're to glorify God in all we do, we recognize that whatever shade of melanin we have in our skin, all of what we do in this space during our time on Earth is in an effort to give

God the most glory out of our lives. And so we also recognize that we are sinners who deserve

God's wrath. And as a result of that, we need to cling to the finished work of Christ and him crucified so that we can be ransomed from death and given the ultimate gift from God, which is eternal life.

Once those things have been reconciled, we can live a life that is devoid of sinful partiality and when we do recognize it, we have an answer and a solution in repentance and faith in Christ and the movement of the spirit in the life of the believer that reorients our thinking.

And so those are the things that I would appeal to. I ended the article by saying both men,

James Brown, say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud, as well as Scott Adams and his outrage about this issue, they appeal to things that are only skin deep.

They don't appeal to the things that are eternal. And if we're to ever get a solution on issues related to reconciliation, both with God and with one another, we have to appeal to something much greater than skin color.

And that is our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And so that was where I ended the article.

And it was interesting to see the responses of others to the article, both good and bad.

And they're common to what I've experienced with other issues like this that I've spoken about.

I don't know if you've already thoroughly answered our next listener's question, because she sent it kind of while you were early on in talking about the

Dilbert comic. But Cindy in Findlay, Ohio says,

Do you think that the cartoonist author of the Gilbert, it's actually Dilbert, I think, right?

The Dilbert series was using absurdity to show absurdity as Rush Limbaugh used to claim to do.

Do you think any of his response was intentional hyperbole? In fact, if you want to throw in, in addition to Rush Limbaugh, Tucker Carlson does that practically every time he opens up his program.

He'll be saying things that are really the polar opposite of what he believes because he's being sarcastic.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I think I don't think I know. I mean, in the preceding interviews after this outburst, he said, absolutely, people have got to recognize hyperbole.

People have got to recognize the outrage that I expressed was not a genuine authentic outrage.

It was stated for the purpose of exposing the absolute bankruptcy of a worldview that would tell others blacks are people of color that they need to separate from another group or that they would be better off if they had a quote unquote safe space away from people that didn't look like them.

He's exposing the fallacy, the idiocy, the ridiculousness of those kinds of worldviews.

And so again, because of the fact that, you know, that that language like that only is able to go one way from blacks aimed at whites, it was definitely problematic for the for the tables to be turned and for him to say things about blacks that that that only blacks are allowed to say aimed toward whites.

Thank you, Cindy. We have a man who is the owner one of the owners.

He and his wife own the jewelry store that is a sponsor of this program,

Royal Diadem. You just heard their ad earlier royaldiadem .com. Sterling Vanderwerker has a question.

Listening to the show today, two of my favorite Christian men. Hello to you, Virgil. And the question is are you keeping up with your sidekick

Daryl Harrison out of the People's Republic of California?

Hope we see you on the way to the fall conference. And I think that is directed to me because I usually stop in North Carolina on my way.

Grace to you brothers. So and by the way, Sterling, his name is Daryl Harrison, not

Harrington. I don't know if this is one of those voice activated emails that always messes things up.

But anyway, you have an answer. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Sterling, hello to you. Thanks for the message.

I've got a number of things I'd say about that. Yes, I keep up with Daryl Harrison on almost a daily basis, if not every day, every other day we're texting or talking or emailing back and forth watching what he's doing.

I just recently returned from the Shepherds Conference out there in in the

People's Republic of California and was had the wonderful opportunity of experiencing

Daryl, who was asked by Dr. John MacArthur himself to give an address, kind of a post -mortem of the woke movement.

And so Daryl got to traverse the platform, the podium and grace the stage there at Grace Community Church, was in the pulpit of Dr.

John MacArthur, able to deliver his message, his sermon and my chest, my heart was beating out of my chest.

I was, you talk about proud, I was absolutely proud of my brother and just knowing the background that both he and I come from, one that was steeped in charismaticism,

I call it charismaticism and the Pentecostalism that we've come out of and to have been involved in and reformed circles for quite some time, growing in these circles and having the opportunity to work for the fantastic organizations that we do.

Myself here at G3 Ministries, Daryl Harrison there in California, with grace to you, the teaching ministry of Dr.

John MacArthur, for him to grace that podium that we've watched for more than close to two decades now and for him to be able to deliver a message, it was an incredible moment.

I know it won't be the last, but it was an incredible moment to experience with him and just did a fantastic job.

I'm hopeful that that particular sermon that he delivered is something that everyone has the opportunity to hear when they get everything squared away and tightened up from ChefCon.

But yeah, I stay in touch with Daryl pretty consistently. He's less than a phone call away. I mean, I've got him on a text message usually two, three times a week.

He's already got another episode in the can, sent me 18, 19 pages of work that he wants me to go through in preparation for our next show.

And he's already thinking about the show after that. So yeah, we're in constant contact. Well, we have to go to our break right now, our midway break.

And by the way, thank you very much, Sterling. And I hope that you get a lot of business out of these commercials so that I can get 100 % of the profits from those sales as you have offered to us from royaldiadem .com.

This is the longer break than the other breaks. Use this time wisely, please. Not only send in a question to Virgil Walker on our topic that is coming up on female elders or a response to the defense of them by Rick Warren, but also write down as much of the contact information that our advertisers provide so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers.

Don't go away. We're going to be right back with Virgil Walker after these messages. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I've been preaching, teaching, writing about and defending in live public debates for most of my life.

The sovereignty of God. I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

And there's more great news. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 % discount off the registration fee.

Go to g3min .org. That's g3min .org and enter promo code

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Chris Arnzen and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the

G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God. Make sure you stop by the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor Booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your 30 % discount off the registration fee.

Hello, my name is Anthony Uvinio and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Ivineo and thanks for listening. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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Before I return to Virgil Walker, who is an author, executive director of operations at G3 Ministries and co -host of the

Just Thinking podcast, I just have a couple of very important announcements to make. First of all, if you love this show, you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

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Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now. Also, I want to remind you, if you are a man in ministry leadership, you are invited to the next

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to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, featuring my dear friends for decades,

Dr. William Webster, who is a Banner of Truth author and pastor in Battle Ground, Washington, and also

Rev. David T. King, who is the associate pastor of a

PCA church, Christ Church in Katy, Texas, and also the co -author with Dr.

Webster of the groundbreaking 900 -page, three -volume work, Holy Scripture of the

Ground and Pillow of Our Faith. These two men will be speaking at my luncheon. It's free of charge, and not only will you be fed physically and spiritually at this event for free, but everybody attending will leave that place with a heavy sack of free brand -new books, personally selected by me, and this is all because of the generosity of Christian publishers all over the

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and put luncheon in the subject line. It's free for all men in ministry leadership. And then, immediately following that, on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, April 14th, 15th, and 16th, those same two men,

Dr. Webster and Reverend King, will be speaking at a three -day Bible conference at a different church,

Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, on the theme, The Gospel, Removed by Rome, Rescued by the

Reformers, and Rejected by Modern Evangelicals. That is the 14th through the 16th of April at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Also absolutely free of charge, and there is a difference. This conference is open to everyone, men, women, and children, unlike the pastors' conference that is just open to men.

So, if you want to register for that, send me an email to chrisorrenson at gmail .com and put conference in the subject line.

And, last but not least, if you're not a member of a Bible -believing, Christ -honoring, theologically sound church, send me an email to chrisorrenson at gmail .com

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So, send me that email to chrisorrenson at gmail .com and put I Need a Church in the subject line. That's also the email address to send in a question to Virgil Walker on the theme,

A Response to Rick Warren's Defense of Women Elders in the Church. That's chrisorrenson at gmail .com

So, tell us, Virgil, what is the latest on that whole scenario with Rick Warren and the

Southern Baptist Convention and his already ordaining women while still a

Southern Baptist in defiance of their rules? Yeah. Well, that took place a couple of years ago, putting in the elders in place, and Warren and other leaders at the church, they're celebrating that fact that they had opened the doors to women serving as elders, installing elders into their church, women as pastors in the church.

That was definitely celebrated. And then, more recently, closer to his departure from Saddleback Church, he placed in leadership to take over after he moved on, a husband and wife pastoral duo.

He was unapologetic, unashamed about that, felt like that was the right thing for him to do.

More recently, just a few days ago, he was on a podcast with Russell Moore.

In the podcast, the whole conversation revolved around his defense of having women as pastors.

And, of course, the Southern Baptist Convention, after much consternation during the previous

SBC Convention, had initially the response by them was that they weren't sure, at least the committees weren't sure, if the

Baptist Faith and Message, which is the statement that all

Southern Baptists coalesce around, combine around, and connect on, the

Baptist Faith and Message 2000 is the document that they look to as a source of their cooperation with one another.

They weren't sure if that document was actually clear on men, or on women rather, serving in the role of pastor.

And so, because they weren't sure, initially they had decided that they wanted to take a look for another year and determine whether or not a woman could indeed be pastor, even though Scripture is absolutely clear about this particular issue.

Well, after much back and forth, it would be this year, recently, and again, conveniently, prior to the next

Southern Baptist Convention convening in June, that they made the decision to disfellowship

Saddleback Church, the former church of Rick Warren. The church is in California.

It is a very well -known church, very large church, and has been part of a network of churches.

They're primarily in the California area. But Rick Warren went on Russell Moore's podcast and an interview to just kind of talk about what he believed were the reasons that, biblically speaking, it was okay for him to put a female in the office and role of pastor.

And as he kind of laid out his lines of argumentation, the first one kind of began with the fact that women at the

SBC, rather, shouldn't be concerned with women as pastors. They should be more concerned with the issues of abuse that have been alleged in Southern Baptist congregations.

And so, of course, everybody, those who could follow the SBC closely recognize that there have been a number of, not only accusations, but even litigation around sexual misconduct of some of the pastors in SBC churches.

While that's a process under investigation, he, like others, have connected these two issues.

And the way they connect these, Chris, is they say, if you're a complementarian, meaning if you believe in male leadership in the role of pastor, then you are a part of the problem that created the sexual abuse.

They connect the dots on those two things. And so, rather than recognizing those two things are not synonymous, that just because something is similar in kind, that doesn't mean, just because a male may be a complementarian doesn't automatically make him a sexual abuser.

The idea around that is convoluted. The second argument that he makes as it relates to this is that there are more black churches.

This one is a trip. You'll like this one, Chris, that there are more black churches with female pastors.

And so, therefore, if the SBC holds to a complementarian view on the issue of female pastors, meaning that they want male leadership in those roles, that what they're doing is racist because they really are targeting inadvertently predominantly black churches who have a larger number of female pastors in their ranks.

And so, again, this is just a ploy at using or leveraging the issue of ethnicity for the purpose of advancing

Rick Warren's cause. And again, I think everyone kind of sees through that line of reasoning.

His third point that he made was that the Bible actually supports women serving as pastors.

And this is where it became very interesting because he cited three particular texts of Scripture.

One was the Great Commission, Matthew 28, 19 and 20. And his argument with that was that we've been told that the

Scripture actually reads, Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the

Father, Son and the Holy Spirit and teaching them to observe all that's been commanded. His idea there was that there were men and women there who were receiving the

Great Commission. And so women are being commissioned by Christ himself to go and teach as a form of gospel proclamation.

And so, therefore, that was evidence that it was okay for women to serve in the role of pastor. The problem with that is that there's no recognition on the part of Rick Warren that there's a difference between gospel proclamation and church government.

There's a different set of rules. There's a different set of Scriptures that apply to church government that don't apply to someone speaking, declaring, promoting the gospel.

His second text was Acts 2, verse 17. And this is the point at which

Peter is explaining what's happening on the Day of Pentecost. They're out there declaring the glories of God and tongues unknown to them, known by those who were around hearing their proclamation.

And his argument here, Warren's argument here, was that there were women and men who were declaring the truths of God.

And so, therefore, if that took place at the point of the church's inauguration, well, then if we go to the original time of something happening, that's the best point at which to determine doctrine uncorrupted.

And as a result, he believed that women should be able to preach. And again, there's a difference. There's a dichotomy here between gospel proclamation proclaiming the truths of the

Lord Jesus Christ, his life, death, burial, and resurrection, and church governance, church government, and the way that the church is set up.

And then finally, he used Matthew 28, 8, 9, Luke 24, 10, where what we have here is the story of the women who approach the burial of Jesus.

They go to the empty tomb. An angel tells them that he's not there and to go and tell the apostles.

The idea there is that in their telling of the apostles that Jesus was no longer in the grave, that he had risen, that they were informed by that, that there were these women who were now teaching apostles, that they had something to teach the apostles rather than informing the apostles of a message that they had been given and then thereby delivered.

None of those have any relationship to church government. When we look at church government, we actually have to go to 1

Timothy 3, 2, Titus 1, 6, 1 Timothy 12, 2, 1

Corinthians 14, 34, and 35. And all of these are either in the context of 1

Corinthians 14, 34, and 35, and in 1 Timothy 2, 12. They are very clear indications within the church context that women are not allowed to teach or have authority over men.

Again, this is church governance. The same with 1 Timothy 3, 2, and Titus 1, 6.

These are the actual rules by which, if you will, the standards by which we determine who is able to serve in the role of pastor.

And here we have a clear indication that leadership for this office must be the husband of one wife.

And so a woman is not going to be a husband to a wife. A man is going to be a husband to a wife, indicating that it is a man who is able to serve in these contexts.

And again, not all men are qualified to serve as pastors either. The Scripture is clear that these are to be men of a particular standard.

And so Rick Warren used three to four Scriptures unrelated to church governance in an effort to claim that he now, three years ago, had the revelation that perhaps everyone historically had gotten this issue of women pastors wrong, but now he was going to set the record straight and be an example as a church for how this should absolutely be done.

And we have an anonymous listener who says, I am remaining anonymous because I have a number of friends who are pastors in a particular denomination that ordains women even though they are not liberal.

The constant excuse I hear from them is that there is nothing to fear in doing this because they have not caved in to the leftist world on other important issues of the faith.

My problem with this approach is that, number one, it's not biblical, but number two is that this kind of hermeneutic almost always eventually leads to the ordination of homosexuals.

Can you respond to this? In fact, I just had lunch with a pastor today who had a great line.

I don't know if it was his own, but he said, although all churches that ordain women do not eventually ordain homosexuals, all churches that ordain homosexuals started by ordaining women.

That's exactly right. You basically took the words right out of my mouth.

I mean, that's exactly the case that while not all that ordain women advance the

LGBTQIA plus agenda, all that do advance their cause, the

Alphabet Mafia's cause, do indeed also support the ordination of women in those roles.

So there is a slippery slope, if you will, to the idea that we could ignore the clear teachings of Scripture for the purpose of reflecting a culture or for the purpose of relating to the culture.

To the earlier portion of the question where she had said that the response is that by the pastors who do this say that they've not given over to the culture in other areas or to feminism, the reality is they absolutely have given in to feminism.

What they've given into, it really stems all the way back to a Genesis 3 issue where what we learn after the fall is that a woman would desire to usurp the authority of her husband, but Scripture says that he would rule over her.

What we're witnessing is that women are desiring the roles that are given to men for the purpose of usurping the authority that God's given.

I'll also add this, Chris. At the end of the day, Jesus Christ came, lived a perfect life and died a death on a

Roman cross, suffering as he did for the purpose of the purchase of the

Bride of Christ, the Church. How dare we or anyone believe that we can determine a better way by which to do, quote -unquote, church than Jesus Christ intended as we understand it through the pages of his written words?

That's a lot of audacity for a pastor to believe that he has a better way than Christ does, than what has been revealed in the pages of Scripture by the

Holy Spirit. Of course, we have to constantly remind people who hear us saying these things that this has absolutely nothing to do with the talent of a woman, with the brilliance of a woman, with the biblical literacy of a woman.

There are gifted women out there that may even be superior in their oratory gifts in preaching the

Gospel than men, but they should never be in positions of authority in the

Church or preaching to men. That's absolutely right. That's absolutely right.

What we're witnessing, though, and I've written about this in the past, is a culture, a church culture, and even a quote -unquote, conservative church culture within the

SBC that has really abandoned what Scripture has to say on these issues and more and more by percentage are okay, are comfortable with seeing women in these roles.

As a result, we're seeing more women in those roles. It's a space and place that women should be protected from.

Pastors who operate in this space know the challenges and the rigor that are required.

To the point that you made, it has nothing to do with the effectiveness or giftings of a woman.

It has everything to do with what God has said that He desires as it pertains to to His Church.

Just a quick numbers here. There was a poll that was done in early 2011 that said 73 % of female

Southern Baptist favored women in the pulpit compared to just 58 % of Southern Baptist men.

While the number for the men is lower than 73%, I think it should be shocking that 58 % of men actually prefer or favor a woman in the pulpit.

Those are some startling numbers. You see that reflected in what took place for Rick Warren the first time that this issue was examined by the

Credentials Committee within the Southern Baptist Convention. They weren't sure, given the nature of the pragmatism or the pragmatic approach on this issue.

In their mind, the pragmatism ensues when a vast majority favors it.

Well, if they favor it, then it must be okay. So when they approached the Convention last year, there was a lot of confusion about whether or not

Rick Warren was in the right or in the wrong as it relates to this issue when Scripture is absolutely clear on this subject.

I wonder if Rick was critical of the Roman Catholic Church for barring women from the priesthood since he calls

Pope Francis his Pope. Absolutely. I don't disagree.

It's interesting to witness his response in these spaces.

I don't question his salvation. I do question his judgment on numerous accounts and in a variety of different ways when he says things like that related to his

Pope. If he understands at all Catholicism and the heretical nature of the role of the

Pope, he would never call the Pope my Pope. That just wouldn't come out of his mouth. The same is true with regard to this issue.

Rick Warren has to know that the text of Scripture that he used in this context had absolutely nothing to do with the selection of qualified men for the position of pastor.

Scripture doesn't contradict. For him to believe that those Scriptures actually say what he believes them to say would be an admission on his part that Scripture actually contradicts itself.

That presents its own set of additional problems for which we need to contend.

We have another anonymous listener who asks, in spite of the good news that the

Southern Baptist Convention disfellowshipped Rick Warren, have they reached the point where they are so theologically corrupt that we should not be affiliated with them in membership?

I think questions of fellowship are important. I think the question is should the

Southern Baptist be connected with them in membership?

I missed that part, Chris. The listener was asking, should a Christian be a member of a

Southern Baptist church? I think that's what the listener seemed to be saying. He was applauding or she,

I don't know which, was applauding the Southern Baptist Convention for disfellowshipping Rick Warren but nonetheless saying that since they have reached such a state of theological corruption and corruption in attitude and practice, should we be a member?

Should anybody be a member of the Southern Baptist? Yeah, I know that you're very aware that the church that I'm a part of here in Douglasville, Georgia, Praise Mill Baptist Church, we walked away, removed any kind of connection that we have to the

Southern Baptist Convention and stated for several reasons why that decision was made by church leadership and the elders here at Praise Mill.

At the same time, we recognize and said in the statement before we departed

Southern Baptist circles that there are good Southern Baptists. There are great

Southern Baptists. Dr. Tom Askell for one of the founder's ministries. Absolutely.

There are great Southern Baptists and you can't paint with a broad brush. All Southern Baptists, and you do have to look at each one on an individual basis, each church on an individual basis through the grid of scripture as always.

But at the same time, we just felt from a standpoint of what we see, the direction that we saw that leadership was headed and continues to head in a more of a left -leaning liberal direction that we'd rather not have to fight those battles.

We're already waging a war as it relates to culture. We're already engaged in a battle for the souls of men within the culture and we really don't have the desire to look at our rear flank to recognize that even our own have capitulated on issues like social justice, have capitulated on issues like women pastors and egalitarianism and are moving in a direction to embrace other ideas that encompass more of a woke ideology, the softening of issues related to the

LGBTQIA plus agenda, the kinds of things that we're hearing from quote -unquote

Southern Baptist pulpits as it relates to that. And so we just felt like it was better for us to walk away, to separate.

There are others like you mentioned, our dear brother Tom Askell, who made the decision to stay in and fight those battles and we commend them for that and pray for them as they navigate those waters.

I just recognize that it is not the job of any given church to quote -unquote save the

Southern Baptist Convention. It is our job to go and preach the gospel and the sooner we could walk away from anything that hinders us from doing that,

I'm really pleased that we were able to do that. And we are going to our final break. It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks.

If you have a question, send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. We'll be right back. Don't go away. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

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Virgil we have a question from Grady in Asheboro North Carolina greetings brothers it amazes me that for hundreds of years the church has followed biblical principles of men being elders now over the last hundred years those that don't believe in the sufficiency of Holy Scripture are telling us are telling those of us that do how to interpret

God's Holy Word we've seen the fruits from this unregenerate church members women pastors homosexual endorsements and the murder of babies in the womb

I think it's time we start calling out these leaders for their heresy and pray for our brothers and sisters still in the

Southern Baptist Convention do you agree Virgil and that's Grady from Asheboro North Carolina absolutely

I think you've got to recognize the culture we're in the climate we're in and be discerning we've got to be

Bereans about these issues we've got to study what Scripture says and not be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine and so all of this as it relates to issues of egalitarianism issues of CRT all of that we need to take a minute and pause and look and see what's being said by whom and regardless of the credential they have whether it's a denomination or pastor an individual if what they're saying does not align with Scripture we've got to take a step back and then and then follow up with what with what the caller said which is or the the listener said which is we need to pray for them we need to consider their you know their condition and pray that they'll repent and return to the sufficiency of the

Scripture well I'd like you to have about three minutes of uninterrupted time to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today

Virgil absolutely man thank you so much for the opportunity it's always a joy to get a chance to talk with you and to engage the listeners

I have one I would tell everyone to definitely participate in the G3 conference coming up September 15th

I'm sorry September 21st to the 23rd of this year it's going to be an amazing conference on the doctrine of the sovereignty of God and most importantly that God is indeed sovereign not only sovereign in the issues of of weather or of creation but also sovereign as it relates to the issue of salvation and that before the foundation of the world was made that he knew that we would indeed be sinners would be sinful that we would fall away from from grace that that we would that we would separate ourselves and make ourselves an enemy of God and that we would need grace that we would need to be ransomed and that in even before the foundation the world was laid he had the plan to send his son as a propitiation as a as a solution as a as an absorber of his wrath because he knew that we sinners deserved his wrath but but in his grace and mercy he would send his one and only son who lived a perfect life died a death he did not deserve on a

Roman cross all for the purpose of redeeming mankind so that all who would call upon the name of the

Lord would indeed be saved and that we in the hearing of the message of the gospel our hearts would be renewed by the very power of that same

Holy Spirit and that as a result we would be drawn to him in salvation my my encouragement would be that all who hear the message of this gospel this good news that Christ came and died for you for your sins would come to a saving knowledge of that truth and and would indeed repent of sin place their full faith in Jesus Christ and receive an experience eternal life amen and don't forget when you go to G3men .org

G3men .org to register for the G3 national conference in Atlanta Georgia use the promo code

G3ISIR that's the Iron Sherpins Iron Radio promo code that will get you 30 % off the registration fee that's

G3men .org G3men .org using promo code G3ISIR also don't forget about the

Iron Sherpins Iron Radio free pastors luncheon on Thursday April 13th featuring

Dr. William Webster and Reverend David T. King and that's at the Church of the

Living Christ in Loisville Pennsylvania and also don't forget about the three day Bible conference during those three days following the luncheon

Friday the 14th Saturday the 15th and Sunday the 16th of April Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Harrisburg Pennsylvania is the hosting church for that three day conference also featuring

Dr. William Webster and Reverend David T. King also free of charge on the theme of the gospel removed by Rome rescued by the reformers and rejected by modern evangelicals send me an email to register absolutely free chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com I want to thank you so much Virgil for being such a superb guest I want to thank my listeners who especially those who submitted questions

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.