"Are You Good Enough?" (A Response To Athol Congregational Church UCC) Apologetics

Testing All Things Against the Word of God

All right, well, let's pray and then we'll get into it. Lord, we're thankful again to be here in your house on this hot day in August now. And we just pray that as we look to this article, we would be able to test all things and hold fast that which is good.

We thank you for your word and the clarity that it gives us. And I pray that this would be either educational or edifying or hopefully both. But Lord, just be with us during this time. We pray it all in Jesus' name, amen.

The Faith Matters Discussion Group and the Article Under Review

All right, so welcome. This is the fourth session of the Faith Matters discussion group. And we'll probably only do one more, we'll have to see. But this is where we take what is said in the name of God and compare it to the word of God.

So this week, we're going to be looking at an article by the Reverend Dr. Candy Ashenden of the Athol Congregational Church, UCC. So this church is part of the United Church of Christ, another open and affirming liberal denomination, just like we've seen over the past several weeks.

She basically is teaching the opposite of what the Bible says. So her article is titled, Are You Good Enough? And reactions? No. No. No. Yeah, I mean, you could ask good enough for what, right? I mean, you could dig down, but we're going to read the article.

So we're going to see what she's saying, but that's the name of it, Are You Good Enough? And she begins by saying, in God's eyes, yes, we are all good enough, which is really a strange thing since Jesus Christ himself said, there is none good but God, but hey, what does he know, right?

There was no other mention of Jesus. Right.

Congregationalism, Church and State, and the Drift from the Gospel

So before we go through the article, I just wanted to go through a few things. I think this will be helpful, but this is a Congregationalist church, UCC. I think we've looked at at least one or two others, and they're everywhere.

UCC churches are everywhere, especially in New England. And I thought about that for a little while. Why is that? Well, centuries ago, in order to have a town established, I know it was this way in Massachusetts, but in order to have a town established, you had to have a church.

And that church sort of acted like the town hall. And you've noticed that these Congregationalist churches typically are in the center of town. So when a baby was born, when a couple got married, when there was a death, instead of going through the town hall, it all went through the church.

So the church and state were basically intertwined in that way. I pulled this offline. It says, the Puritans created a society in which Congregationalism was the state church. Its ministers were supported by taxpayers and only full church members could vote in elections.

What do you think about that? To ensure that Massachusetts had a supply of educated ministers, Harvard University was founded in 1636. So I wonder how many people know that that is why Harvard, or that's how it got started.

Both Harvard and Yale were created to teach people and train ministers.

Yes. You got something? I had some relatives who went there to get their theological doctorates back in the early, early years. My brother did the genealogy.

Yeah. Yeah, so obviously a lot of things have changed. Later, so these are the Congregational churches. Town needed to be established. We needed to have typically a Congregationalist church and church and state were basically one.

Later when Baptist churches started to pop up, Baptists wanted to keep the church and the government separate, which is I think a good idea. And from what I understand Baptist churches, because of that were originally illegal in America.

So yeah, a lot has changed. And one of the things that has changed is that the overwhelming majority of the Congregationalist churches, they have fallen away from the Christian gospel of Christ crucified and risen a long time ago.

So instead of holding the teachings of the Bible, it's sort of like back then, in my opinion, they seem to still be tied together with the government, not in a legal sense, but spiritually. Because I've noticed whatever ideas the government is pushing, abortion, LGBT, all religions are equally valid.

It just so happens that's what the Congregationalists believe and teach. Beginning in 2015, 2016, the government started pushing the whole transgender thing. And wouldn't you know, all of a sudden that's what the Congregationalists started saying.

So funny how that works. But I think there is that connection still with the church and state. Here's my point, and here's why this matters. If Christian persecution ever comes to the United States, churches like that, the UCC, they will likely be the state-sanctioned church.

And churches like Moore's Corner will be like the Baptist of yesteryear and will be illegal. Now, hopefully that never happens, but if it does, that's likely how things will shake out. So I think that's a good thing to be aware of.

It's, yeah, it's unofficial. They're not officially a state-sanctioned church, but they are going along with the spirit of the age. All right, any questions on that before we look at the article? Okay.

All right, so, yes.

Roman Catholic Church would be a player in that as well. Oh, absolutely. It may be joining forces as well. Right, right. Ecumenicalism. Because that Roman Catholic Church is huge.

Yep, yep, could easily go that way or they could come together. The World Council of Churches, that had all sorts of denominations coming together. So let's pray that doesn't happen, but if it does, yes, Janet.

I remember when I first came here, and I think Phil probably would remember. I can remember Pastor Flody saying that this was a Congregational church. Right. And he withdrew us from that organization.

Right, Morris Corner started off as a Congregationalist church. You know the story, it was started in 1896 by two students of the Evangelist D .L. Moody, and we originally were Congregationalists, and then sometime in the 1940s, 50s, whenever it was, we broke away because they were denying the gospel all the way back then, in the 1940s.

So yes, thank you for pointing that out. Okay, are you good enough? That's the article. Are you good enough? She says, in God's eyes, yes, we are all good enough, but do we feel it? Do we feel it? Well, based on feeling.

Yeah, I mean, automatically we might think, okay, what does the scripture say about this? But yeah, if the question is put out, well, do you feel good enough? Okay, yes, Marcus.

Well, again, we need to look at different definitions of words. When you say feeling, I think of two other words that begin with F. One is faith, which we need to really think about. What is our faith in?

And fact is another one. What are the facts? And feelings, feelings are the, of those, feelings, of course, are the most variable and the least, the least solid to place your beliefs on.

The Spirit of the Age, Gender Ideology, and Political Correctness

All right, so I'm gonna read some of it. She says, we live in a day and age where everyone is celebrated for their differences on the one hand, but still encouraged to be the same on the other. Our pendulum swing of embracing everyone has almost gone so far now that we cannot speak of or be open enough to all the particular differences the human race now lives into.

We hesitate before referring to someone of a different skin color because we aren't sure what the politically correct term for someone of that race is today. We meet folks who have struggled in bodies they don't understand and who have now changed their genders physically to reflect their hearts and minds.

And we want to welcome them wholeheartedly as fellow travelers among us. But we have heard so much about the need to use proper pronouns that we hesitate to reach out for fear we might inadvertently offend.

We have become so partisan as a nation that we choose our words carefully even amongst family as we don't want to start a political debate. And now we pray for the Ukrainians who are suffering unjustly.

And while most of us agree on that, we must be cautious not to lump all Russians together as the bad guys because many do not support what their leader is doing. Now, I would agree with some of the things she said.

I agree with the idea that political correctness is a huge problem that you don't even know what to say because everyone's offended at everything. Thank you, Bill Clinton. Yeah, well, wherever it started, that's true.

Yes, Larry. Well, it says we hesitate to reach out for fear we might inadvertently offend. Well, I mean, aren't we always to reach out? And whether I know it's a man or not, why should I not reach out and, hey, how's it going?

You know, and just have a conversation. Sure. Begin.

Yeah. I think fair-minded people, if you're not trying to offend them, they're not gonna get mad. If it's a simple mistake, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. But just the things that she's talking about, instead of the word of God, or like you said, talking about Jesus or the gospel, what I'm hearing here is the spirit of the age.

This is all the stuff you hear on the news, racism, transgenderism, Ukraine. And this is sort of the problem that churches have abandoned their mission instead of preaching the gospel and the word of God, it's whatever the thing is in the culture at any given moment.

Instead of preaching God's word on Sunday morning, often this is what is talked about in pulpits all over the nation. Now, if she took some of these issues in the culture and compared them to what the word of God says, I think that might actually be helpful, but she's not doing that.

Instead, she's kind of giving her own view on things and we're gonna see how it's just not in line with biblical Christianity. But did you pick up on that? Yeah, this is all the stuff in the news, the spirit of the age.

So just the idea of a Christian, here's the thing, again, we talked about glaring issues. The idea that a Christian should wholeheartedly embrace people who have had sex changes. Number one, clearly that is not in line with the teaching of Jesus.

Jesus said that God in the beginning made them male and female. Okay, this is Jesus in Matthew 19, verse 14. So if someone is born as a female, that is how God made them, number one. And number two, by indulging them in this belief that they are something that they are not, it's a lie.

And you can't be loving to a person while you are lying to them. So while this Reverend doctor, and she's obviously not a medical doctor, in her mind, she probably thinks she's helping, but she isn't.

The whole trans movement is just destroying the lives of untold number of young people, especially young girls who are taking drugs and going through these surgeries and it's doing irreparable damage to their bodies.

Not to mention that they have the highest suicide rates. So by affirming this and accepting this wholeheartedly, she says, it's doing far more harm than good.

Yes, Marcus. Well, as always, it's the behavior versus the individual because we all fall short of God's glory. None of us are good enough. There is none righteous, no, not one, save Christ himself, which made him, of course, the perfect, flawless sacrifice, which needed to be there for these behaviors that are against scripture.

But we all fall on that category. I'm a recovering hypocrite myself.

Namaste, Pantheism, and the Claim That We Are Gods

Yeah, well, I'm convinced maybe five years from now, maybe 50 years from now, at some point, people will look back at this generation and think, how is this allowed? And why were churches not speaking up about it?

And why were these other churches going along with it? That day will come. So I view this as an opportunity because saying, are you good enough? You could tell some of these young people, boys and girls, you know, not theologically, you're just, you're right in the sight of God, but you are good enough because God made you a male or a female.

Embrace who you are. You know, don't buy into all this. God made you this way, embrace what you are. But that's not what she does. She's kind of embracing the whole life-altering surgery. All right, she says, unfortunately, all of these isms often lead us into judgment of others and ourselves.

I think there is a difference between judging a behavior and judging the individual. That's what we're trying to do here, talk about the facts or the behaviors. So how do we learn to see ourselves as the wonderful creations of God?

Because when we are truly able to do that, then we are also one step closer to viewing others the same way. Okay, now focus in on this. She says, some Sundays when we, quote, pass the peace, we say, who knows this word?

Namaste. Namaste. Namaste. Right. We say namaste, extending the sacred blessing of may the God in me greet the God in you. So may the God in me greet the God in you. Namaste.

You're not a God, though, are you? And neither am I. No, we're made in the image of God, though, and that is with a mind, an intellect, and a will. The essence of God.

Yeah, well, that's not what she's saying, and that's not where this comes from. So she goes from teaching or saying that we are creations of God, which is true, so she's jumped from monotheism to pantheism.

The word namaste comes from Hinduism. A lot of people might not know that. They might know the word because they've done yoga, yoga, but it comes from the Hindu religion, and it's a way to greet a deity.

And that's what she says. May the God in me greet the God in you. So not only is a supposed Christian minister teaching tenets of Hinduism, I view this as repeating the lie of the serpent. You remember what the serpent said to Eve?

You shall be as gods. And matter of fact, you are. A God is in you, and she's not talking about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That's not what she's talking about. All right, so by telling people in her congregation they are gods, yeah, that's not biblical.

Okay, any reactions to that? Okay, I told this to somebody, talking with them about this article, and they said, yeah, but doesn't the Bible say, ye are, didn't Jesus himself say, you are gods? Well, let's turn to Psalm chapter 82.

I try to think ahead what the rebuttal will be. I don't think I have to convince any of you that I'm not a God, and you're not a God, and there's only one God. That's monotheism, but to say that everybody is a deity, again, that's pantheism, that God is in all of us, that God is in the rocks, God is in the trees, the universe is God.

Well, if everything's God, nothing's God. All right, Psalm 82, verse six says, I have said, ye are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High. You all see that in the Bible? Okay, Jesus quotes this in John chapter 10, verse 34, but remember, we always have to do what?

Take scripture in its proper context. You can't just take this phrase and run with it. So if you read the entire chapter of Psalm 82, it becomes clear that the Lord is not praising men as gods, that we're all deities.

No, what he's doing is he is condemning the unjust rulers of the land who show partiality to the wicked and oppress the poor and needy, which by the way, that's what our country's doing. Even just reading the next verse helps clear things up.

Look at Psalm 82, verses six and seven. Again, I have said, ye are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High. Isn't that wonderful? But ye shall die like men and fall like one of the princes.

That kind of changes the whole tone of it. You are gods, but you're gonna die like men. So some people might struggle with this, but the word God or Elohim in Hebrew is a reference, it is used in reference to human rulers in a few instances.

When Elohim is translated as judge or judge in Exodus 21 .6 or 22 .8, basically the rulers are called gods because they rule by divine appointment. So that does not mean that they are actually gods. It's just, they are ruling in the place of God.

Okay, so I think you probably knew that men were not gods, but that's the explanation for that.

God's are not capitalized in. Right, right.

So this teaching, namaste, this comes from Hinduism. Again, if anyone here has heard it, it's probably because of yoga, which some people might do yoga at the gym and there's breathing and stretching exercises and that's benign enough.

But as a pastor, I think I do have to say that be careful because it can be a gateway to Eastern religion. Either way, this kind of thing should not be taught in the church. Can I at least get an amen on that?

Okay, all right. She continues, think about this blessing for a moment. This is the namaste, may the God in me greet the God in you. She says, it might be easy for many of you to offer this blessing, but how many of you could truly receive this blessing when offered by another?

How many of you feel seen as a creation and a blessing from God? This very moment, I want you to drink in deeply the message that you are good enough, that you are a blessing just as you are and that you are a divine child of God who is worthy of love and acceptance.

I mean, that sounds so nice, doesn't it? But do you spot the problem?

You want to? It's very different than what we're hearing before. You're saying that you're a blessing just as you are and then talking about changing who you are. Right, yeah, it's like, which is it?

That's a good point, yeah.

And if we are good enough, why did Jesus have to die for our sin?

He stole my punchline. That was the thing at the end. Well, exactly, yeah. If you're already good enough, what's the point in any of this? That's, yeah. So once again, she is teaching the exact opposite of what the Bible teaches.

She says, yes, in God's eyes, you are good enough. Romans chapter three says, there is none righteous. There is none good. No, not one. Of course, that statement in Romans is directed at unbelievers. But according to Reverend Candy here, she is claiming that everybody, everybody is a child of God.

See, I'm not sure everyone would pick up on that, but she's just saying to the whole world, everybody is a child of God. Is that true? No.

Dad. Well, I mean, I'm confused here. She talks about, you know,.

Maybe God and me greet the God in you, so there's more than one God. She's saying, okay, or that's saying, well, maybe your God, you went to that guy over there and said, you know, I want my God to meet your God and all of that stuff.

Well, maybe you're good enough for his God, but you're not good enough for your own God.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, if every individual is God, you're gonna get a different God in each response. But again, if this is pantheism, which is where this comes from, then like everybody and everything is God.

And basically how we view God and how she views God, it's miles and miles apart. Marcus.

Well, John chapter one, it's clear that he's talking about Jesus. In verse 11, it says, he came to his own and his own did not receive him. But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in his name.

So we have to receive Jesus. We have to believe in his name and his name means salvation. Those are the ones who are the children of God. Those that believe in Jesus, those that have received Jesus by invitation and by believing, that's another word that is not clearly understood.

To believe in someone is not intellectual ascent. To believe in Christ is to place your trust in him. That's what it means to believe in something. Okay.

Yeah, see a lot of us, we know the stories of the Bible and we've heard a lot of these things repeated, but if you don't take the scripture and apply it to the modern day, I don't wanna say what good is it, but if the scripture is just there and all these things happened in the past, you have to apply it to the things that we're facing right here and right now.

I know someone could think, well, why are we going through this article? And you should be preaching the word. Okay, let's look at John chapter one because that's what you brought up. She says, everybody's a child of God, but the scripture clearly teaches in John chapter one, 11 and 12, that only believers in Christ are children of God.

That's what the Bible teaches. So the scripture teaches only those who have been born again are children of God. That is, we have been adopted. That's the new Testament term, adoption. We have been adopted into the family of God when we were born from above, when we were born again.

That's why Jesus says in John chapter three, you must be born again. If a religious teacher says, no, no, no, everybody's a child of God, then the gospel is completely unnecessary. And what Jesus did was in vain because you're already good.

You're already good enough. So any other comments before we move on?

Yes, Larry. So we view ourselves as pre-millennialists, so would she be considered a pan-millennialist? Doesn't it all pan out in the end?

Oh, yeah. I don't know what her view is of eschatology. In a lot of these churches, they were post-millennial. So that means that human beings, you know, we're just getting more and more enlightened and we are going to usher in the kingdom of God, however they see that.

Typically, I mean, if she takes a position, I would assume it's post-millennialism. But again, she's so detached from the Bible, I don't know if that's even part of the conversation. But that's her premise that everybody is good enough and that everyone is a child of God.

The gospel says that, no, all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God and the wages of sin is death. That's the bad news, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus, our Lord. And that while we were still sinners, you know, God demonstrates his own love toward us and that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

That's the message the people of this church need to hear. That's why I'm doing this. You know, I'm preaching to the same group every Sunday. This might, maybe, might cause someone from outside to watch.

And this is what they need to hear, that unless you are born again, you will not inherit the kingdom of God. That's what Jesus says in John chapter three. And once you are in Christ, then Romans 8, one says that there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ.

So if you are born again, then God looks at you as his child. His love for you is unconditional. You are good enough in his sight because you have been made righteous by faith in Jesus, that's the truth.

And that's what this is all about.

All right. Can But Mike, I think that all of these churches that they're pretty much in unison, believing that the, and that Jesus was a wonderful, great, so they lumped all of that into something that is contrary to what scripture says.

Yeah.

I think in fairness, I doubt she would say the Bible is irrelevant. I think there's a lot of parts of the, I know what you're saying. I think there's a lot of parts of the Bible that she likes and probably reads and affirms.

But the whole of scripture They pick and choose, pick and choose. Oh, this fits what I want to say. Right, right. And then they come back and say, well, you pick and choose because you eat pork and the Bible says not to.

And that's where the apologetics is necessary. We need to be ready to have these conversations if we are going to reach people who are in these institutions. Yes.

Well, I just wanted to quote John 3 .36 again. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life. And he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him. This business of it doesn't matter what you believe is the biggest and most dangerous lie we could ever believe because God's wrath is just as real as his love.

His love is so huge we can't understand it. We can't understand his grace that he would allow his own son to be tortured to death so that we could be saved. But it's time that people understood that hell awaits, an eternity of torment awaits.

God's wrath, I mean, I am amazed. It says the Lord's not slack concerning his promise, but his long-suffering towards us. Yeah, he sure is long-suffering towards us. And I'm beginning to think, man, how much is he gonna put up with of the nonsense that people are believing and saying?

And yes, from church pulpits where perhaps people who are having real hardships in their life, they'll say, well, maybe if I go to church, maybe God, I really want God to help me. I need God's help. I'm not getting the help I need from my doctors or from my teachers.

Maybe God, and they go into these places and they hear this nonsense and they walk away empty without Christ.

But the message is everything's fine. Everything's fine. Peace, peace, and there is no peace. Namaste. You know, if they are right, if she is right, then it doesn't really matter if we're wrong, no matter what you do, no matter what we believe, it'll all work out in the end if she's right.

If she's wrong, an eternity apart from God awaits. I just think that the devil, this would be his greatest trick to just convince everybody that you don't need to do anything. Everything's fine. And he laughs while the world is on its way to hell.

His best kept secret. Right. All right, continuing on. She says, learning how to appreciate ourselves. And again, this sounds positive. We can appreciate positivity and all, but it's just based on a false premise.

She says, learning how to appreciate ourselves just as God made us isn't easy, but there are things we can do to get there. We can appreciate the fact that God has created us each with our own gifts and talents.

We can recall special moments when we experienced God, when God walked with us, when God sat by our side in the presence of another, when God wrapped loving arms around us through the hug of a friend.

Clearly we mattered to God because we felt God's love and God's touch. It sounds so good, but she's blurring the lines between God and man so that if a person hugs you, that's God hugging you. That's not the same.

It's not the same. We already saw the teaching of Namaste where each individual is a deity. So if you get hugged by a person, that's like getting hugged by God. It's not true. So you see the average person reading the faith matters column probably isn't going to pick up on these things.

The average person probably doesn't know from the top of their head, John chapter one verses 11 and 12. But if you've been an attendee of this church for many, many years, you should know John one, 11 and 12 to be able to tell someone about that.

So just like everything else, starting to wrap this up, it all goes back to our source of authority. Is it how you feel? Is it whatever the spirit of the age is? Or is it, what does the scripture say?

She continues, we're almost done. She says, we can also think back to the times when God used us to bless a situation as only we could because of how God made us. Every person, every personality isn't for every situation.

Well, that's true. How do you see yourself? Psalm 139 assures us or assures each of us that we are fearfully and wonderfully made. She was talking about all these social issues. I noticed there's one she didn't bring up.

And I wonder what her view is on this, but here's what Psalm 139 says, if you read before and after, for you formed my inward parts, you covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.

I'd be interested what she thinks about the civil rights of the unborn, but that's another story. She continues, God made you and me just the way we are. Well, yes, but we've all been affected by the fall and original sin.

So each morning when you get out of bed, remind yourself, I am valuable. That sounds like a preacher that I know on TV. I am hand created by God. Every one of us without a facelift, without weight loss, without doing more good works, which is in quotation marks, I'm not sure why, in the world is enough.

You are good enough. That's the message, you are good enough. And again, I would say, if you are good enough, then why did Jesus have to die?

Yes, Emo. We're made so wonderfully as we are, then why do we have to have a sex change?

Right, yeah, that would seem to contradict what she was saying before. See, I could get behind this statement a little more or a lot more than the one, yeah, good point. There's some inconsistencies, I would say.

Dad, you got something? That was what I was gonna say. Yeah, great minds think alike. So yeah, Linda.

I call this, you're okay, I'm okay gospel. Right, right.

I'm okay, you're okay gospel. But as I like to say, the gospel means what? The good news. Why is the good news necessary unless there's first? Some bad news. Bad news. Why is salvation necessary if there is nothing to be saved from?

So hopefully you can see how she undercuts the gospel from the very start by making the gospel completely unnecessary. But of course we know that the gospel is not but the gospel is necessary and that all men everywhere are called to repent and place their faith in Jesus Christ for the remission of sin.