True-Hearted Disciple I: Interview with Dr. Ian Hamilton

Welcome to the Whole Council podcast. I'm Teddy James, but I'm only here just for a minute So there was a little bit of glitch in the recording the introduction of this episode

So let me kind of bring this in John is meeting with Ian Hamilton.

No, dr. Hamilton recently created a study a mini study for media gratia

And it is about being a true hearted disciple of Christ It's an eight -part series and John wanted to have a conversation with dr.

Hamilton about why this is necessary and also What caused him to want to make this study?

So I pray that you enjoy and also benefit from the conversation Well, my name is

Ian Hamilton I'm a Scott. I'm Married to Joan.

We have four children six grandchildren I've pastored two congregations one for 20 years in Scotland in the

National Church the Church of Scotland and one for 17 years in Cambridge a congregation of the

Evangelical Presbyterian Church in England Wales Presently I have the somewhat exalted title of president of Westminster Seminary UK and I also teach at Greenville Presbyterian Seminary in South Carolina My main responsibilities are with my own seminary

Westminster Seminary UK. I teach historical theology there and Puritan pastoral theology

Our great concern is to see young men raised up for gospel ministry

We've been so encouraged these last few years. We're a very young seminary We have men from different nations different church backgrounds and affiliations

We're a Presbyterian seminary, but probably half our students are Baptists.

They come because they want biblical reformed experiential

Covenantal Christianity and So it's just a joy and a delight to teach these young men

Above and beyond that I am privileged to preach in a

Number of places. I think probably half of it is due to the accent, but hopefully a little more than that So at the moment

I live with my wife in the north of Scotland Where some of our children are located and it's easy for me from where we are in Inverness In the north of Scotland to get easily to different parts of the world.

So that's what I'm presently up to Dr. Hamilton, you've recently written a mini study for media gratia.

And so we wanted it's about to go to the typesetter as we're filming and We wanted to just talk a little bit about that.

The study is entitled true hearted discipleship in light of the very many

Crisis You know hotspots that that the

Western Church in particular is dealing with why choose that topic?

well, I chose the topic because I Think evangelical Christianity has drifted

Not only from its historic Reformational roots but from the its roots in the

Bible The Christianity of the Bible is not notional or simply doctrinal it's not simply a matter of Putting your trust alone in Jesus Christ Though, of course it is that the

Christianity of the New Testament Highlights the believers union with Christ not only as a redeemer and a savior

Not only as the one who has made propitiation for our sins, but the one in whom we are sanctified 1

Corinthians 1 30 is a very pivotal text for me. Christ is made unto us the wisdom of God even our righteousness sanctification and redemption and so when the

Roman Catholic Church at the Reformation and Confronted the Reformers with their teaching on justification

Saying that this would lead to moral mayhem the

Reformers replied duplex gratia Duplex gratia the double grace and what they meant was that when you believe in Jesus Christ as Savior You believe into him as Lord He doesn't simply come to Rescue us from the guilt of sin, but to rescue us from the prevailing power of sin and because faith

Engrafts us into Christ. It makes us partakers of the life of Christ. And so a disciple was not simply someone who

Made a verbal commitment to Jesus Christ a disciple was someone whose whole life

Was united to Jesus Christ and whose life was invaded

Permeated by Christ's own life John 15 The vine and the branches would be one of the most central significant passages in the

New Testament. So I wanted to try and reaffirm

That the Christian life is a life of wholehearted unqualified allegiance to Jesus Christ That wholehearted true hearted discipleship isn't reserved for an elite.

It's the It's the bottom line if Jesus Christ is not

Lord of all that you are. He's not your Savior But that doesn't mean we we don't sin and fail and grieve the

Lord and weep because of our sins and failures But I want myself to understand and I want my fellow

Christians to understand that there is an irreducible minimum to authentic Christianity and its wholehearted discipleship

Over the last year. I think the text that has most Impacted me humbled me challenged me is

Jesus words in Luke 14 If anyone would come after me let him deny himself

Take up his cross and follow me And Jesus wasn't saying, you know life is full of little crosses.

You've got to bear He was saying if you want to know what it is to belong to me. Are you ready to die?

And so I wanted in that series on discipleship to unpack that what exactly in Practical day -to -day living as a man

As a woman as a husband a wife a child an employer an employee. What does it actually mean?

to be devoted heart and soul to The Lord Jesus Christ, how would that? betray itself in individual life family life and Congregational life because the life of faith is lived

Communally and corporately Within the local churches. No evangelicalism has atomized the gospel

We rightly stress the vital necessity of the new birth, but we forget

That when you are united to Christ you are simultaneously United to the body of Christ and according to the

New Testament, I believe you cannot grow as a believer Without being vitally livingly connected to a local church.

So those were the things that was the thinking that Drove me to at least propose that we consider

Doing the series on discipleship We've been looking at the same topic over the last year here in New Albany on Sunday mornings

And that phrase Irreducible minimum, you know, I think of two commands of Christ that you mentioned in Luke 14 come to me

Follow me So we could add quite a lot of detail regarding each of those commands and how those can be possible for the fallen race of Adam, but You can't reduce

Christianity any more than that coming and then following we

We often remind the people and I have to remind myself that if I take the

Lord's commands regarding following the day -to -day

Risk response of this of the whole of the believer to Christ and his word

When I read his statements there, they're they're quite alarming there You know, they include everything they have they have no restraint

In our lives, we can't lock the doors of certain Parts of my individual life or corporate life and say to the

Lord that he has no right to that room So these sovereign and as you mentioned permeating

Rights of Christ and demands When we read them, I think is this really possible and it is in fact

It's imminently practical for every believer that by the Spirit and with an open

Bible in our hands we are privileged to walk with the

Living God and It's it really is a sweet command and not a heavy burden

Well, I'm glad you used the word sweet Jesus said come to me.

He didn't say come to series of Doctrines and affirmations about me.

Although he's a doctrinal Christ He's an affirming Christ but he says come to me for I'm gentle and lowly in heart and There is a sweetness in Christ's Calling us summoning us sweetly drawing us because We're summoned to be united not just to the sovereign majestic cosmic

Jesus Christ who is ascended and high That's true but to the one who was the man of sorrows who understands the frailty of our frame because It was his frailty his sinless frailty our sinful frailty, but his sinless frailty and When the

Lord Jesus said to his disciples who must have been utterly bereft when he said, you know, I'm going to be leaving you

And he says let not your hearts be troubled and and the verb he uses that the turbulence of the sea their whole inward being must have been almost disintegrating at the thought

He says I'm going to send you a helper. In fact, he says

John 16 it will be for your good That I'm going away

You know you think how is that possible? Well in his humanity that the

Lord Jesus could only be in one place at one time But the Holy Spirit as the

Spirit of Christ Has come to be our helper and it's a wonderful word, you know, it's very difficult to translate

Paracletos Paracaleo Helper encourage our strength and our comforter as long as we remember that comfort from the

Latin cum forte means with strength the Holy Spirit doesn't come as a

Blanket to just wrap around us he comes to invade us with the strength of the risen living regnant

Jesus Christ and So we can do all things through him who gives us strength poorly feebly weakly sinfully but he forgives and he picks us up and he says

Let's go again and the Holy Spirit Says I'm I'm with you.

You know, we're never passive in the Christian life. We're never Picked up and simply carried along It if by the

Spirit you put to death The deeds of the body you will live

We have to do it sanctification Doesn't simply happen It takes effort, but the

Spirit is there alongside us To give us the grace we need to come to Christ and having come to Christ To put his yoke upon us and his yoke is easy

And his pardon is light. It reminds me of the prophecies of Christ in Isaiah 42

You know at the beginning of that the first of those great four songs of the coming of the

Messiah he's he's described as the servant by the middle of that first song he's seen as Rushing into battle with a war cry, but in the middle, you know the the shocking

Realities of Christ that the Christian we understand this But it is still it is so shocking to see that the one that the father has entrusted with waging this war successfully

Is he is a military captain? Who will be gentle with the bruised reed and the smoldering candle, you know the flickering candle and we

Like Richard Sibbes points out in his little book the bruised reed we certainly do feel that that's us too often and and yet in in that same passage it says that Christ the captain of our salvation will not smolder and He will not be bruised by the enemy's attacks and You know that so that that that apparent contradiction that paradox that we find in our

Savior so often The shockingness of it the amazingness of grace

Well, it's even more if I can follow on to the second servant song in Isaiah 49

It's even more astonishing that the Messiah can say my life has amounted to nothing

Yes. Yeah, I've expended my labor and people read that and they think well who is saying that?

Saying the Lord of Glory in our flesh is saying this and he is the prototypical disciple

He he is the faithful one who never Gave way to sin or Satan But he so understands true humanity that with sinless despondency

He can cry out to God and yet say yet My my hope is in the

Lord and it's a wonderful thing to know that we have been yoked in the Christian life

To the perfect disciple the perfect follower that as the father has sent me so my sending you

And who so understands the frailty of our frame? because he's been there and experience the the tumults and the

Torments of Satan's attempts to turn him aside, but remaining faithful But you know those words my my life has amounted to nothing and you know our

English translations often. I Know linguists, but I think sometimes translators are a little frightened to give the full force of the

Hebrew and Greek You know and if I remember rightly he said my life has amounted to nothing

Tochu and you know the earth was of that form and void. It's it's all vanity

Hebel and think well But the reality is this is true sinless humanity and if Jesus Couldn't experience that he couldn't be qualified to be our

Savior. He'd have been a superman and We don't need a superman to represent us and stand before God in our place.

We need a true man So we have one that we're yoked to who? Who knows our frame and that's just a wonderful thing to remember

Yes well as you were working on this theme and You you mentioned

Luke 14 as a passage that has stuck with you throughout Let me ask you this question individually

Personally, perhaps we should say What has motivated you?

What have you found to be the the most consistent? enduring powerful motivation

To wake up each day and to in a sense say now to him

You know, I set my face again Like Flint to walk with the

King whatever comes Well, I think that is absolutely one of the most profound questions.

We can confront in the Christian life I'm in the middle of preparing an address for a missions conference in Florida in October on the

Great Commission and I've been thinking on I've been given the topic the

Great Commission ever for every Christian knows what the Great Commission is Well, at least we think we do. I'm not sure we understand really the

The force of the grammar, but I've been thinking you know, why?

Why do we engage in the Great Commission and too often the answer is well, the need is great and that's true

The command is unequivocal, that's true But we forget about the one who gave the command we engage in this because he is worth it and so every day as I begin my day.

I Hope I can say this honestly. I'm blessing God for his son

Jesus Christ Jesus is the reason why I want to be a true hearted disciple

You know Paul's words those three little words in Colossians 1 20, isn't it?

Him we proclaim the great need of missions today is not to present the challenge though That needs to be there.

I think the great need of missions is to preach Jesus Christ Him we proclaim and ponder the the glory of the hypostatic

Union and The glory of the Holy Trinity the wonder that God should

Stoop down to us. We are not his only son for us the glory and the inexplicable wonder that Leaves Paul at the end of his exposition of the gospel in Romans 11 just to say all the depths

You know, I'm out of I've said all that I can say but brothers he's saying I Can't go any further who has known the mind of the

Lord who has been his counselor and So I know my great need and I was thinking this again early this morning to get up Well arise early not by choice, but just wise early had to take one of my girls to the airport flying to London And I was listening to a little podcast which

I don't actually often do and it was making this point. We don't Think enough of the person of the

Lord Jesus Christ We think rightly about his work wonderful, absolutely wonderful, but his work is

Significant because of who he is Who he is and John Owen if I can

Someone said to me recently you ever preach the sermon without quoting John Owen. I said, yeah, I'm sure

I have I just can't remember but Owen has a remarkable Passage in I think volume 1 and page 310.

You can look it up the glory of our religion the glory of the church the only source of present grace and future glory is

Now I would think as evangelicals we would say well, that's the cross. That's a no -brainer. Well, it's not what

Owen says He says it's a hypostatic union And folk would look at him and say well

What about the cross? And Owen would say of course we glory in the cross God forbid

I should glory except in the cross for Lord Jesus Christ The point he's making is the cross is glorious because of who it is

Who is being who is there becoming our sin bearing sin atoning propitiation?

and Pondering the

Immensities and the infinities of the Redeemer is my great need and I think people are just like me

Yes I Generally have to remind myself that who it is

That's calling us to follow who it is. We get to walk with It it changes everything.

It's it's the most motivation It's the path is determined by his character and um

And it's the you know, it's the privilege of being the beloved Leaning the wife coming up out of the wilderness leaning on the beloved and the kind of beloved that we belong to You know which uh rutherford, you know once described christ as oh what an only one is my jesus um that What a what a ravishing one yes, it's the next bit of the statement

Yeah, so that changes everything, you know, every other religion pales when the sun

Of righteousness rises before our eyes every other nice You know, even the gifts that the lord gives us are

They are they they shrink To their right size when we see him

Um well, thank you so much, uh, dr. Hamilton for coming and um giving us some of your time and uh, and for writing this study it's been um,

A real joy for me to read The the chapters. Um, I I have to read over everything we publish just in case

Um, someone asks me on the board. Did you even read this? I say well, yes, of course I read it. So Um, we trust you but I have to be able to say

I read it um But it was helpful for my own heart to be reminded of those things and to be challenged

And we pray that the lord will use that study Well, john i'm very very grateful for the privilege

I know you have made the studies better by your careful reading and editing. I know that You'll be the last to say that but i'm very very grateful

It was a privilege to be in new albany. Um The work you're doing is a good work don't come down keep focused um keep looking to the lord guard against pride and People praising you over much but you are doing a good work.

So brother Press on. Well, I remember a statement that you said to me. Um When you were here filming and preaching um, our audience won't know but that you were you you had uh,

You were pretty sick And um what we call sick, uh, you you know a head cold.

It was hard for you to speak Hard to sleep I imagine and you you did this a lot of work in a few days, even though you felt terrible and um

And then we had this ice storm, which is quite rare for mississippi. So as soon as snow shows up in mississippi, we we all

Run to our homes and lock our doors and uh, we we don't go to work for a while But this was a particularly bad one,

I think i'm looking at teddy Um, we were we were we were iced in Where I was

I would say the road had a few inches of ice for five or six days And um, you just couldn't get out but you you left early that uh that sunday

You went ahead and left instead of preaching sunday night to get to the next place You needed to go so you wouldn't be iced in and uh, we were going to have a conversation monday morning and I was asking you for some advice about How to do things, you know

When you're busy and you feel you have too much to do you said to me Uh, if something's worth doing it's worth doing poorly

And and you said i'll follow that up, you know i'll explain that and then you left So i've just been doing poorly ever since and I say in hamilton told me

No, I I think I understood what you meant so yeah, well, yeah, i'm glad Pray for us and maybe i'll get you a t -shirt that says if it's worth doing it's worth doing poorly, you know

Whether i'd wear it or not. Remember i'm a scott and we tend to be less flamboyant

Entrepreneurial america. Yeah, that's true. That's true My warmest greetings to the saints in new albany.

Yeah And tell your sweet wife we said hello Yeah, she's sweet indeed.