Cultish: Why I left Astrology, Pt. 2

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Is Protestantism Heresy? Pt. 3 - The Pope | Collision w/ Jeff Durbin

00:00

Alright, welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish entering the can of the cults. My name is Jeremiah Roberts one of the co -hosts here

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I'm here with my good friend Who's up in Harriman, Utah and you are on the verge of moving.

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This is actually gonna be your last Episode you ever film before you move to your new headquarters That's absolutely right.

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And then soon you'll be visiting me at my headquarters and I'm extremely excited about that Jerry soon Jerry is gonna be up in Utah.

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Yes, definitely super excited for that By the way, Andrew, what do you think of the last podcast? We did we did we just did it was it was powerful, man

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Very moving very touching to me. Awesome. Awesome. So we are back with Angela Uchi. It's good to have you back.

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How are you doing? Good good. And so we're let's just go ahead and jump into it

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So the last podcast we did with you again for anyone jumping in this is part two. We are

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You're talking about your testaments very kind of a linear telling of where you came from how

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God saved you Just really encouraging to hear. I thought it'd be kind of fun to kind of Take your sense.

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You still have your old podcast up. We're actually gonna pull clips from when you did the podcast and We're gonna kind of give you an opportunity to respond because there's probably a lot of times

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We're like man if I could just correct the record on that So we're gonna play clips from your old podcast and we'll give a chance to respond and then maybe if Andrew and I have anything

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Insightful say afterwards, maybe we'll kind of throw in our two cents and we'll just see what this conversation goes So let's uh, we're gonna have some fun here.

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So You know, it's just interesting this this is the we're gonna do is that we are going to take a look at this is your second

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Podcast that you ever did and the title this podcast is called the full moon in Leo and there's two different clips

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So on that note, we're gonna play these two clips back -to -back This is the old

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Angela and we're gonna play these clips and then we're gonna we're gonna jump into it and have a good time Here we go two truths can exist at once and That's a really big message of this full moon.

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Is that more than one truth can exist at a time? so It's not only black or white

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It's black and white and it's every shade in between The ninth house, you know personal growth coming back to that with like religion and philosophies and Ideologies right think about your ideologies.

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Have you been to pride in your bill or too proud in your beliefs? Lately, have you been pushing people away because of your belief system?

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Think about that think about what's going on in the world right now Have you been to in your beliefs that you can't make room for other people's that's something to consider

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That's the shadow aspect of Leo energy being way too proud, you know

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Like I said multiple truths can exist at once So have you not been holding space for other truths have you been so into this one?

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truth that you have blinders on and you can't even make room for the other ones for what other possibilities and Truths exist at the same time as your own that's super important to consider right because multiple truths can exist at once and To be human is to catch the falling person, right?

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So we have to remember that we have to remember that our brothers and sisters in their truth in their ideologies in their ninth house of personal growth are

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Just as valid as you are in yours and there is plenty of room on the stage

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Okay, there's plenty of room on the stage. Okay. I think people can kind of get the idea of Where you were at where you're at now and what you're saying so you were there

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You're the one who said those words and you're the one who made those claims and you made some notes kind of give us your thoughts

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Now, how do you respond to your old self? So it's nonsense

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I Clearly I'm obsessed with relativism, but I didn't even know what that meant at the time and just hearing myself say those words

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It's an entirely self -defeating position the words that I'm saying completely collapse in on themselves because Although it's satisfying to hear it completely just excuses objective reality and it creates a subjective life experience in which we can do

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No wrong Unless we decide for ourselves that it is so so like it essentially absolves the self of sin, which of course

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I would have never used that word or Understood even what that necessarily meant at the time, but it reminds me of first John 1 1 -8 where it says if we claim to be without sin

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We deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us So that word truth because the thing is

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I was deceiving myself at the time and the truth was not in me So I was obsessed with this idea of multiple truths

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I was obsessed with my truth and the idea of kind of like truth fluidity

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But the thing is by definition right by definition of truth truth is accordance with fact or reality

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It's actuality truth is always valid regardless of parameters or context and it's

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Unwavering truth is unwavering and truth is complete. There is no fluidity in truth or else it wouldn't be true and You know, there's only one truth and I know that now that that truth is

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Jesus John 14 6 I am the way the truth in the life. No one comes to the father except through me. So When I hear that now

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Saying that multiple truths can exist at once or all roads lead to God, you know another kind of famous New Age slogan

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That does not benefit anybody and it was not benefiting anybody despite me thinking that it was

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I'm harming my audience with that message by creating this false and counterproductive narrative.

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The truth is not consistent and that it is It's not in that truth is not an unavoidable reality in which we must contend with I'm again creating this idea of fluid truth

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And I was I was lying to my audience and I've repented for that so many times But just as another public apology because I can't say sorry enough

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I am sorry for that and I always say father forgive me for I knew not what I did

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You know, but the thing is it was harmful and it was a lie because I left them with nothing consistent

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I left my audience with nothing consistent or reliable on which to rely only

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Themselves which as we all know is really not a great barometer of reason or of anything because The heart is deceitful above all things as gospel tells us

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I was leaving my audience with nothing but quote -unquote their truth and Honoring their truth and I was just ultimately with that message in that mantra and that mindset

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I was setting people up for failure and worse as I was setting them up for eternal suffering in hell

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Because I was encouraging them to reject the truth Essentially without even realizing what

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I was doing John 8 32, then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free and of course again, that truth is

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Jesus, so That whole concept of multiple truths can exist at once That was actually bondage that whole mindset that ideology

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It was bondage to deception and sin and that other Clip that you played from that same episode where I'm talking about how your way is not the only way

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Actually your way is not the way at all is the thing. None of our ways are the way at all.

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Jesus is the way and We talked about this in the last episode that expression holding space how

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I haven't used that term in like seven months when I used to say it all the time and that's a really kind of like fluff term in the

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New Age community because It sounds cozy and it sounds sweet to the ears because it's all about like being non -offensive and being tolerant and being not judgmental and not trying to impose my truth on anyone else, but The thing is that I've said a lot since coming to Christ as I become, you know more and more persecuted for speaking the truth is that love tells the truth and Scripture calls us.

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Yes to be humble and to be gentle and to be patient in Ephesians 4 2 but and all throughout scripture But it is clear right

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Proverbs 1715 he who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the

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Lord So for me to sit there and say you have to hold space for everyone That's actually an abomination to the

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Lord because it's justifying the wicked It's it's justifying the things in the world that are wrong and that are of sin it's not loving

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It's not loving to let people deceive themselves or to continue to let yourself be deceived.

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It's it's actually unloving and Love tells the truth.

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That's something I always say when people want to come at me and say you're being judgmental. You're being intolerant

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It's not about any of that. It's about telling truth because it is the loving thing to do holding space

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Justifies the wicked because there is only one truth and I will just say that over and over that there is only one truth

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And people will say, you know, you know Matthew 7 1 well judge not lest you thou be judged, right?

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people in the New Age, especially really love to kind of Counter that and it's always interesting because it's people that don't care about the gospel that are saying well your gospel says this so you can't

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Judge me. But the thing is, it doesn't mean not to judge. It actually just shows us how to judge John 7 14 says judge with right judgment and that's

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Jesus saying that and of course if you read on Not just Matthew 7 1 where it says judge not lest ye be judged if you actually read on Into the verses from 3 to 5 it reveals that it's all a matter of hypocrisy

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It kind of like if you're not living a life that is yielded to God Then you are not spiritually in a place to lead someone to holiness if your own sin remains undealt with You're not in the position to point out the sin of another so that's what it means

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It doesn't mean not to judge people. It just means how we can How we can judge them and you know where what makes us qualified to judge them and it's not about Thinking, you know, you're better than anyone else or that Or that they are

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Necessarily bad. It's just here's the truth and I'm telling that to you because I love you

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So it's not on it's not on Christ like is because this is something I get a lot It's not on Christ like to call out spiritual deception or counterfeit godliness or any of this

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New Age jargon because God's Word is true Psalms 119 160 says

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I Hasten and do not delay to keep your commandments and that's really what I'm trying to live by is

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I Do not hasten to keep your commandments and to abide in your word and God's Word tells us to expose darkness

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Ephesians 511 Take no part in unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them and they will be sanctified by the truth

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John 17 7 now that now they know that everything you have given for me is from you

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So it's from God So it was like a roundabout way of coming back to what

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I was saying in those clips No old Angela There's not plenty of room on the stage because Jesus belongs on the stage

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All of us are his We're in the crowd. We don't belong on the stage. There's not plenty of room on the stage

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Hey everyone, if you are watching us right now on apologia studios youtube channel You need to know that cultish would not be possible if it wasn't for this studio

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So if you want to support apology of studios, which also makes cultish a possibility for you to enjoy every single week here on youtube

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Go to apology of studios .com You can become an all access member and you will also get a lot of great additional content

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Which will also help support the studio which will allow cultish to be a possibility as well on a weekly basis

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So we thank you all for watching us and now back to the episode Yeah, that's really good.

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I know that thank you so much for sharing that I know like one thought I have if I was just to think about The claim that you are making for starters,

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I'll just say it's self -refuting because you are making a point that Multiple truths can exist at the same time but what about those people who

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Reject that and say no, there's only one truth. There's there is absolute truth. That is that is illogical

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That's not that's not true. Well, you're you then are actually excluding You're excluding the exclusive by being all all inclusive

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You are excluding the exclusivist. So that's when you know, we are on your podcast as well, too

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Which you'll be releasing shortly is that you know, we talked about how neutrality Is a myth

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That you ever you have to be able to give an accounting unless you begin With god and his christ as lord.

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You ultimately can't know anything Yes, you can have some knowledge, but you can't give it an accounting for absolute knowledge when it comes to reasoning and laws of logic

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So you actually see at the moment the unbeliever They open their mouth.

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They already begin to refute themselves And so even in this moment, you know, and again, this is your old self and now here you are

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To speak you're refuting your old self and it's almost a process What you're seeing in here is almost a really cool just analogy of just sanctification how how god has worked uh in you, but again, this is just to demonstrate that the when you look at the unbeliever's worldview that You it gets reduced to the moment.

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You actually Look and cross -examine what is actually being said It gets reduced to absurdity and that's where you have to show that you only

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Can give an accounting for true knowledge if you begin with christ In which all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden.

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Uh, andrew, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I I was really enjoying how you're talking about uh love there because a lot of misconceptions we have especially with people that are in the new age movement or just this generation of people in general is that Uh, they think that love is god not that god is love meaning that love and what love even is comes from god

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It is unchanging just as he is and he is the one that defines what love is People don't define what love is according to societal systems that are at work during this time

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And this is what it says in first corinthians 13 4 through 7 about love, uh, just add some scripture here

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It says love is patient and kind love does not envy or boast It is not arrogant or rude does not insist on its own way

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It is not irritable or resentful does not rejoice at wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth

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Love bears all things believes all things hopes all things endures all things But there it is, right? It rejoices with the truth does not rejoice in wrongdoing

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Why because how you just brought up proverbs as well because that's an abomination To god if there's multiple forms of truth, right or there's multiple forms of love

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There would be multiple forms of god, but we know that god is one Right, there's not multiple forms of truth in form of ideology

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Sure, we have two plus two equals four and four plus four equals eight But we're talking about the being nature and character of god here in which truth comes from so Yeah, that was great.

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Great. Great explanation. Uh, really thoroughly enjoyed that. So yeah, I wish I had like a like a Like a fire button.

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It was like fire Yeah, that was good. Yeah. Well, um, oh so one thing

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I want to ask angela is that You know you're talking about multiple truths can exist at the same time

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And that was a big portion of your audience that believed that as well, too. However when you started to come to the knowledge of jesus

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How consistent were they with your worldview with their worldview? when

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And again, you're even when you're going If anyone goes back and listens to your podcast even the way that you are describing

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Your encounters with jesus it sounds very new agey But just because you were saying the name i'm looking i'm having some sort of experience with jesus christ

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I don't know what's going on How consistent? Were was your audience at least some of them with multiple truths can exist at the same time

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With where you were in that process So For one I was so proud of that quote multiple truths can exist at once I think

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I said it at least once in every single episode. I recorded I used to You know, I played with the idea of merch for moon and back podcast and that was what

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I wanted the first shirt to say because I really thought that that was just The answer and and I see now in hindsight.

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It's just it's again. It's just this like Blanket statement that just completely alleviates you of any sort of accountability to what is objective reality

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And that's in hindsight why I liked it so much because I didn't want to be held accountable to any objective reality

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I just wanted to do what I wanted Which was unfortunately be in defiance of our lord and savior.

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Um but as far as My audience goes. Yeah, they didn't they didn't agree with it at all.

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I mean And it's always funny how that works with the new age community and I and I don't say this with any distaste or Right or hatred.

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It's just it's just an observation that i've that i've noticed is You can say

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You can say I came from another planet like we talked about in my last episode. I literally incarnated from another star system

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And that's fine That's great, okay, that can be true But then you say the gospel is real and then suddenly you're you don't know what you're talking about.

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I actually had somebody tell me in the new age community that was I was really close with say

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You have no right to talk about this leave the spiritual talk for spiritual people and i'm

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Sitting i'm just taken aback because I had been spiritual in this person's eyes for the past five years

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Until I started talking about jesus and it's really really interesting how that theme just kind of comes up over and over when

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When you present the gospel or when you present christ to people These walls go up but other things it doesn't seem to bother them as much it never bothered

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Anybody in my life when I walked around with zodiac signs on my shirt It didn't bother anyone when

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I had buddha's head on my wall It didn't bother anybody when I was worshiping crystals and when

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I was doing yoga every single morning But it started to bother people when I put scripture on my wall It started to bother people when

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I started wearing jesus saves t -shirts It started to bother people when I talked about the gospel instead of what the moon was doing

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People got really triggered by it and I know it's because it's the holy spirit that and they're not used to it and they kind of have that same reaction with with the bible as a whole right because The thing is all my knowledge of astrology that I had and I had a lot of it

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I had a lot of it and I really was I was proud of it Made me feel like I was worth something.

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It made me feel like I was doing something really really right. It made me feel special It made me feel Seen and so when

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I started to get all that pushback initially the first time I tried to come out about jesus It made me feel

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Like I was going to lose something if I if I let astrology go so that's kind of why I was teetering on in this weird space of Trying to be this new age christian where I was incorporating astrology into Into the gospel and vice versa, which of course you can't just cherry pick verses that you like and leave the rest um

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But yeah, like you said that that whole multiple truths can exist at once it completely it collapses in on itself

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It's self -defeating, you know when people say There is no truth. They're making a truth claim, right?

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and And when you of course try and say something like that It's met with just resistance because people don't like to be told that they're wrong and I understand that Like I really truly understand that no one likes to be told that they're wrong

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But sometimes you have to be you know You can't you would tell a kid if a kid was about to jump off of a 10 -story building

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You wouldn't say yeah live your truth. Go ahead. Have fun. You would say hey, that's wrong. Don't do that And just because something is is is not doesn't feel good to hear it doesn't make it any less true

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You know, there's no such thing as my truth or your truth There just is the truth if you were to sit there and tell me That you don't believe that gravity is true

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You're not just going to like float away in a space. You know what I mean? It's like there's still truth gravity's still there whether or not you believe that it is and you know my thing with astrology like I said

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Had all this knowledge, but it it comes from or came from Books and online resources and guess guess who they were written by men and women

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And that's something that people from the new age like to say to me a lot is well How can you trust the bible now? Like you went from this

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Really knowledgeable person who was getting all these downloads and receiving all this insight and relying on yourself

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And now you're just going to trust some book written by men but the thing is all the stuff that I was learning was essentially coming from other books too because I was

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I was reading a lot. I had so many books on my shelves from so many different people Yasmine Boland Eckhart Tolle all these people all these resources

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And that's all written by men and it's fine, but the bible has like 40 different authors it's it was written over the course of give or take like 1 ,500 years right it it has unparalleled harmony that is

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Literally unexplainable outside of divine intervention and the credentials of the bible can like all those other books

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Don't even come like a tenth close to the credentials that the bible that the bible has and second peter 121 said it tells us that the authors of scripture were moved by the holy spirit

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And romans 8 16 says that the spirit bears witness with our spirit and that we are the children of god so the thing is the holy spirit is working through these men the holy spirit is

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Is acting as the author as the men scribed the text and so That is the big difference between all these other new age books between the four agreements and all these astrology books

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And you know the power of now all the books right? They're not Those authors are they're demonically influenced.

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I mean for for lack of a better term and um it's just interesting how

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People always have a problem with the bible being written by men, but every other book is fine, right? Yeah, what you'll end up seeing.

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Yeah a great point and what you'll see is a lot of times When you're looking at the historical reliability of the gospels even the new testament just we have thousands upon thousands of documents of just uh manuscripts of the new testament written both hebrew greek

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And aramaic and even what's an amazing thing. I don't know if you know this but by the by the end of I believe

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The between the first and the second century you could have actually already put the bible together

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Just by all the church fathers who had quoted the new testament in their sermons so even if somebody had gone in And had you collected up all the documents that are out there and somehow it's changed them and this again

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They make the claim a lot of times even new agers and even cyclists They'll claim that the bible is put together at constantine.

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Well before that even before constantine like happened You could already put

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The new testament together even if you didn't have the manuscripts Just because it was quoted so much and seen

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As authoritative and in fact, you know, it's just fascinating that you never see any historian talking about how neutrality is a myth questioning the writings of plato or the reliability historical reliability of homer's odyssey or Even even a new even what's prominent the new age is the idea of atlantis

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There's really scarce scarce documentation. I think of someone quoting someone else mentioning it

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And that is viewed in in many Areas like in in gaia and a lot of these other new age teachers as gospel like literally

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But if you wanted to make a comparison you want to do a cyber site chart comparison regards the historical light

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Reliability it's night and day But there is a deeper spiritual reason where it's not just evidential it's spiritual

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It's a matter of not just a matter of truth It's an issue of someone wanting to suppress that truth, uh in unrighteousness and andrew

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What are your final thoughts before we jump on to the next clip? Yeah, it's it's it's as simple as you know

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It's just like I hate to tie it back to the lds, but it's it's like this It's did god say that the bible is missing missing many plain and precious parts, you know in order to get someone to believe

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Something other than god's word. You must make them question The word of god in itself and just like you said jerry in terms of evidentialism

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I mean The bible itself is the most accurate ancient document in human existence

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It's it's it's it's not it's not an argument. It's just it just is that's actually that's an actual fact

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Uh, we have more copies of manuscripts than there is plato right and homer But again, that's not the issue

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The issue is that people don't want to be convicted of their sin and the bible does just that it tells you what is right

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It tells you what is wrong But also it tells you how to have peace with god because it's the testament of the coming of jesus christ who took

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Upon flesh god and died on the cross for our sins this whole book right here Tells us this book which is finished.

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By the way, we've got new age authors are still writing books. This one's done Uh, we've got all the answers here already

26:30

Uh that that book right there tells you how to have peace with god and it literally takes a heart change and humility

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In order to for a person to go, you know what, you know Maybe maybe i'm wrong

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And god is right But literally takes a work of god in order for that miracle to happen to occur

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Anyone else before that miracle occurs were just like satan in the garden man Did god really say that I can do this or I can do that?

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And i'm gonna be the one who sits on the judgment seat and i'm gonna judge god according to what I think is right And what I think is wrong, you know, it's just that's sin.

27:03

That's that's that's sin If I could say one more thing in regard to that Two is people ask me how can you have faith in this, you know, how can you have faith in all this?

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It's a blind faith in my opinion It actually takes more faith to believe in all the new age stuff or to not believe in god at all

27:20

Because like you just said andrew the the bible is the most historically sound document in history

27:27

It just is like that. That's not blind faith That is faith that is actually bound by evidence and gives a good reason to have the faith that it is

27:37

So whereas all this other stuff it's kind of just speculative at the end of the day because it's all based on If you want to go back to multiple truths, it's just kind of based on whatever so The bible makes sense

27:51

Yeah, and just one last last thing. This is probably the best description that was given

27:57

By someone, uh, some of you may have heard of vodie bacham He and this is actually a message you can look up on youtube.

28:04

It's fantastic But it was called why I choose to believe the bible but in summary, he gave the best description, which is one of my favorites

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Uh, he said I choose to believe the bible because it is a reliable collection of historical documents written down by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses

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They reported supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies

28:28

And claimed that their writing was divine rather than human in origin so I love that description and if any of you want we can also send that description later on so All right.

28:40

Uh, so the very next clip is an interesting one and this is uh from episode 24

28:50

Of to the moon and back and the episode is called your pain is your power but you kind of bring in this is right at the very beginning of your podcast you bring uh, really you start a really really interesting foundation of really

29:05

How do you deal with suffering? Uh, and it has to do with whether or not we even have meaning at all

29:11

So i'm going to go and play this clip and then we'll have some fun time unpacking this one.

29:17

Here we go We don't know the meaning of life, okay, I sit here and I have these

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Extraordinary downloads that come through I have messages of divine intelligence to share

29:29

But ultimately i'm still a person. I am a human being just like you Just like everyone else walking around on planet earth

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And we as human beings As sentient sovereign

29:45

Physical beings We don't know

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Why we're here, you know, we we can use the Knowledge that we have based on what we read based on Maybe insights that come through when we meditate or have energy work done

30:07

Or have a reading done You know the messages that come through from those types of modalities we have a relationship with god perhaps where we find purpose in but ultimately inherently right

30:26

We we what like what are we doing here? You know, it's What?

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We're just on this planet. Here we are And it's it's like okay now what like what is the meaning of life?

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None of us know that You know we Like to think we do but none of us actually know

30:56

And so The the special inspired in me the understanding that Life is inherently meaningless and that's not that's not a sad thing.

31:10

That's not morbid It's just a facet of the truth

31:18

And another facet of that truth is that life is inherently meaningless until we

31:24

Give meaning to it Okay We're done

31:30

Uh, I wish for anyone If you're watching this on youtube, you're probably you're watching the old clip

31:35

What you're not seeing is my vantage point, which is watching you react to that video

31:42

It's like one of those, um was on instagram on tiktok they have the stitched videos or someone can react to someone else um

31:49

So there you go. I'm going to give you a chance to express. Uh how you're feeling so the your old self says everything's meaningless and Yeah How as your new self in christ, how do you respond angela?

32:04

Well this this one like so many things. So first of all, isn't it funny how I say That it's the truth that life is meaningless whereas in the last video i'm saying that there is no the truth it's just I just contradict myself constantly in all of these episodes and I like speak in riddles and it sounds prophetic because i'm speaking in riddles but I also

32:25

I cringe when I hear myself say that we're sovereign because I used to say that all the time I would say that we are sovereign beings and we are not god is sovereign.

32:35

Um And when I hear myself say, you know Life is meaningless until we give it a meaning.

32:42

I I I think of luke 1733 Whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it. But whoever loses his life

32:49

Will keep it so You know that whole clip is basically me encouraging the audience to give their own life purpose

32:57

You know to seek life. Um Because it has no inherent purpose like Like just the incredibly nihilistic narcissistic worldview that I am harboring in this message

33:11

Because I mean the meaning is jesus that is the meaning of life and that's a hard pill

33:17

For people in the new age to swallow. That's a hard pill for agnostics atheists It's a hard pill for anyone that's not in christ to swallow because it completely takes it off of you

33:27

It takes that everything i'm just talking about in that clip. It takes it off of you It's not about you anymore.

33:33

It's not about creating anything for yourself. It's about actually laying your life down and coming to christ um, but you know that that meaninglessness that desire to Create or give my life purpose or meaning

33:46

I see now, you know because of john 6 35 where jesus says I am the bread of life

33:51

He that cometh to me shall never hunger and he that believeth on me shall never thirst

33:57

I hear so clearly in that clip that I am hungry and I am thirsty I just didn't know for what because i'm i'm sitting there trying to say that life is meaningless

34:09

But we can give it meaning like i'm i'm thirsty to have meaning i'm i'm hungry to have purpose

34:15

And I said this in the last episode how that we recorded together how my heart my heart just breaks for that version of myself um, but I also kind of just like want to shake her at the same time because It's just nonsense that i'm just spewing to a public impressionable audience who were just as thirsty as I was and that's the thing people that were coming to drink from my well that was

34:38

Ultimately empty it had a leak at the bottom, you know, and you know to timothy for one for one through five

34:47

Um, give me a second Why do I have that here? Oh yeah, so As far as the meaning of life goes

34:58

It says I charge you in the presence of god and of christ Jesus who is to judge the living and the dead and by his appearing and his kingdom preach the word

35:07

Be ready in season and out of season Reprove rebuke and exhort with complete patience in teaching for the time is coming when people will not endorse sound teaching

35:17

But have itching ears They will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions and will turn away from listening to the truths and wander off into myths so I was preaching to itching ears

35:32

Um, and I myself had itching ears and all that new age fluff talk, you know Like we just said multiple truths can exist at once in holding space all that that is

35:41

That is scratching that itch if you will. Um Because I did I was turned my back was completely turned away from the truth and I wandered off into all those myths

35:53

And further in this verse it says as for you always be sober -minded endorse suffering do the work of an evangelist fulfill your ministry

35:59

So there's purpose right? There's purpose It's plain as day the bible answers every question that I ever had when

36:07

I was in the new age What is the meaning of life? Why am I here? What's what's the deal with all this? What happens when we die?

36:13

What am I supposed to do while i'm here? The bible answers every single question as for you always be sober -minded endorse suffering do the work of evangelists and fulfill your ministry

36:21

There's no need to create meaning for yourself because god's word is already clear on what that meaning is and You know praise god for saving me, you know galatians 2 20.

36:32

I have been crucified with christ It is no longer I who live but christ who lives in me and the life

36:38

I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the son of god who loved me and gave himself for me so That is the meaning of life

36:47

It's actually to to crucify any purpose that we think that it should have or any meaning that we think it should have to just Put that all aside and just make it about jesus

36:57

And I know again that that can be hard to hear for people and they don't want to hear it and that's why they reject it because it's

37:04

It makes you small it makes you small, but that's the point right? It says that in john that he must

37:10

I must decrease so that he can increase Yeah, um It's it's it's really it's really insane to to hear hear myself say those things and that that particular clip is just That's just 13 months ago that I was saying that yeah well, just and it's awesome just just to hear just because I mean it's amazing what can happen in just A short amount of time and so also for any of you like you have friends who are still in the new age you have people that you know who are

37:41

Unbelievers and you know so many times it's you look at how god has done uh work in your life and it's very easy to think about all the other people but then

37:50

Have doubts whether or not god can really save them and one of the things to talk about in the book of james is says

37:55

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask let him ask of god and without question god will make it known to him

38:01

It says but let Do not ask in doubt You know not believing, you know that god may not be able to answer that prayer again.

38:08

I'm just i'm just paraphrasing it Um, you know just one thing I want to acknowledge just real quickly is that just from an apologetic standpoint again

38:15

Talking about how neutrality is a myth and how you know, the unbeliever the moment that they open their mouth if they begin to refute themselves, so From your point your very claim that life is meaningless

38:30

You just in that statement You were presupposing that statement that you made to be true

38:36

But also that that statement was meaningful so even in that statement you're making you're presupposing meaning

38:44

Thus immediately refuting Your old self. So there's that but also

38:50

I just want to acknowledge too that This is not just you but It's also people

38:57

I see who are in the new age and when they come to christ You just look at your face in this video

39:04

And i'll be truly honest like i'm talking to you now, I I met you online

39:09

You know started messaging you some of our content to kind of help you get on track And I think I sent you a book as well too was you know,

39:16

I think it was essential christianity by dr. Walter martin but You look at like where you are now like you see

39:23

You see like the light coming from you and it's ultimately christ But then you look at your old self.

39:29

It is night and day and Yeah, I just see that I mean

39:35

Has anyone else told you that I think or what are your thoughts on that too from your from your point?

39:41

I um I see it. I see it in myself and I have had people say that to me

39:46

I put together on instagram a couple months ago like actually literal before and after pictures of What I You know like selfies

39:55

I used to take versus selfies now and and you can see it in my eyes Like you can you can see it. It's it's actually crazy um

40:03

Yeah, I I agree with you. I even sent as we were preparing for this episode I sent some of these clips to one of my friends and she was like That's crazy that that's you because you don't even look like that anymore.

40:14

They just you just don't look that it's it's different It's not even the way you're dressing. It's just It's just you like your face is different like your your expression is different There's something alive in you and people people even on facebook say that you know

40:27

Like you you seem different now. You seem like you're genuinely happy now. You seem you seem really holy you seem really healed like you seem like you really have it together now and It's it's the holy spirit 100

40:41

Absolutely. I have one thing i'd like to say about this clip too. This was like the clip when I was listening to it I was like actually

40:46

I agree I absolutely agree with this clip, but it's just missing one little thing and this is why king solomon right second wisest person to ever exist second first is christ, but in terms of human imposterity of adam

40:59

I would say the wisest man to ever exist But the beginning of the book of ecclesiastes says the exact same things from the wisest man to ever exist

41:06

He says meaningless meaningless says the preacher All things are meaningless But the point that king solomon is making in the book of ecclesiastes that all things apart from god are meaningless

41:18

He's done them all but apart from god It is meaningless there's the standard right and listen to this

41:24

This is something that I think if anyone is interested in the new age or gaining these types of worldly knowledge

41:29

This is what the wisest man to ever exist says about the gaining up of knowledge. This is ecclesiastes 1 16 he says

41:37

I said in my heart I have acquired great wisdom surpassing all who are over jerusalem before me and my heart

41:42

Has a great experience of wisdom and knowledge and I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly

41:48

I perceive that this is also but a striving After the wind for in much wisdom is much vexation and he who increases in knowledge increases sorrow

42:01

Increases in sorrow increases in vexation But the point that king solomon is making is the knowledge and the wisdom of adam here

42:07

Is not that that which comes from god but is one that in which he is looking for himself to find meaning and purpose that whole book of ecclesiastes is uh

42:17

One of the most beautiful books in terms of how god speaking through solomon is telling us

42:23

Look, you can do whatever you're going to want to do in life. But when you do it without me All is vanity all is vanity and you know it and you know it.

42:32

So that's one It's one clip. I thought was very powerful very uh solomonesque, but just missing that one little piece, you know

42:38

I feel like I I I I noticed that a lot in a lot of the old clips that I um

42:43

Where i'm speaking it it's it's like i'm i'm almost there But then I just I spin it.

42:49

It's i'm i'm perverting the gospel without even realizing it, you know um, but that's so true because everything

42:57

I was I was seeking I was just constantly seeking and that's really what all the new age is and that's that's all astrology is

43:03

It's just gaining knowledge knowledge knowledge And like I said, it was it was knowledge that made me feel special It made me feel important and made me feel like I was

43:10

I was smart but it's For what but what was that what was that for it was for nothing it was meaningless

43:17

And so yeah I it's it's it's really crazy to hear these to hear these um, these words come out of my mouth that is is now

43:31

Just speaking nothing but praise for the lord. All right, so let's go ahead and jump on to the second uh part of it and this is the

43:41

This should be a fun one to unpack so in this this is from If I can find it here, this is from episode 29

43:51

Of to the moon and back the full moon aquarius and I kind of called this the gospel of astral your your gospel of astrology

44:00

At least what you're trying to articulate and this is uh episode 29 And again, this took place.

44:06

We're actually in august right now. What's the date today? It's august Uh nine nine.

44:12

Oh, that's nine. Okay. So this took place august 22nd 2021 Okay, and this is what you

44:19

Kind of gave your description of your your gospel of astrology So i'm going to play this clip and i'm going to have you give your uh description here.

44:27

I'm just using examples Okay, i'm just using examples not shaming anyone or anything for that what they do

44:32

And you shouldn't shame yourself either It's forgiving yourself, right?

44:38

So this is about discernment not judgment it's about alignment not belonging or about shoulds this is alignment the aquarium full moon offers radical forgiveness for yourself

44:53

Which allows you to integrate all parts of you in the conscious creation of your divine expression

45:00

Thus giving you permission to lead with love in the conscious creation of collective expansion

45:08

Okay That's what this is all about We are integrating we are healing we are forgiving all those aspects within the self and then that perpetuates without we start to integrate other people's

45:22

Perspectives and what we consider to be shadows in them. We learn to accept and forgive and love as well

45:29

And then we coexist We we reconcile the conflicts we reconcile the opposition and thus we

45:40

Exist within polarity, but we are not attached to it We just exist we exist within it.

45:46

We acknowledge it And then we allow for flow That's divine expression.

45:51

That is the End of the chapter. Okay of this two -part lunar cycle

46:01

Okay, I mean there's a lot in there Um Again, i'm watching you react to that.

46:07

Just give me your immediate thoughts because it doesn't even make sense. Like what am I even saying? I don't it's just Like I said, like I speak in riddles

46:16

And um I don't know it it's it's it's sad like it really is sad to hear that because I was just I was just so lost and I was grasping to this astrology thing

46:35

Just trying so hard to allocate some sort of meaning for myself and Share some sort of purpose with people and again you know

46:48

Like we just talked about andrew how i'm like there like i'm saying things that It's almost i'm almost getting it.

46:55

But then it's like perverting scripture You know i'm talking about forgiving the self and how we're responsible for our own Forgiveness, which essentially is another way of saying that we're responsible for our own salvation and I think

47:05

I mentioned this in my um In the last episode how my mantra for moon and back podcast was we're walking each other home on the self -healing journey

47:13

So that's really was the theme of every episode was somehow Self -healing and it's really it's narcissistic spirituality.

47:20

Like it's not only counterfeit. It's complete narcissism 100 the entire new age movement is narcissistic spirituality and you know narcissism because it's

47:31

Essentially i'm claiming in in that clip and in every other episode that I am my own god and that you are your own god and that we are governed by the authority of the of ourself and that we

47:42

We even in a way have authority over the moon like, you know, i'm talking about how we can use the moon to our benefit

47:48

Like we're somehow greater than the celestial bodies It's not even just idolatry of the stars and of the planets and of the moon itself

47:56

It's idolatry of the self being sovereign over those things. It's like a whole completely different level of narcissism and as far as astrology itself goes

48:09

I wanted to give a little bit of context on that from stuff that I was um, I was really thinking about how this whole idea of satan perverting scripture because I get asked a lot like as an astrology in the bible, you know, like People like to use genesis 1 14 like, you know

48:25

Let there be signs and seasons for the days and years like as far as why we have the celestial bodies

48:31

And here's the thing the sun and moon are there as a source to count time

48:36

It's to track the passage of time Not to predict future events or to use some self -healing modality or to impose any psychological constructs in accordance with time at all

48:48

Um, you know god wanted us to track progress toward the fulfillment of his promises

48:53

Concerning the end of an age like in daniel 9 Because men man could count time

49:00

And because men can count time like israel could anticipate god's fulfillment to bring the messiah because man can count time

49:07

We know the length of the tribulation, you know, right seven years and the length of the kingdom thousand years and so on things like that um, and Interestingly like in revelations 21 and 22,

49:18

I know it tells us that After this age ends the sun and moon will depart so it's like presumably because the tracking of years will not be necessary in the new heavens and earth, so Signs right, but this is something that I used to cherry pick when

49:33

I was um Using this astrology gospel. I really like that terminology that you use.

49:40

I was cherry picking that as you know Oh god wants me to do astrology, but it's not that at all

49:45

It's it's against satan perverting scripture and it goes back to the garden Did god really say that signs and scripture means omens or warnings of something that will that something promised will occur?

49:54

You know god has promised in his word that certain events must take place in the future on earth And it's particularly in relation to the coming and the second coming of jesus um but god intends to use the only intention god ever used with the sun and moon the stars as signs to kind of You know warn the world of these events

50:15

And these heavenly bodies don't have any authority over over us or of anything

50:20

And the bible the bible gives prophecy like the stars aren't giving prophecy God uses that to direct us, but the stars aren't directing anything.

50:28

They are the creation He is the creator so you can contrast all of that with the actual purpose of astrology

50:36

What I was using it for and if you really want to break down the terminology of astrology, it's it's

50:42

Astropsychology so it's a demonic inspired practice. There's no other way to There's no other way to spin it because the bible tells us there's two kingdoms only

50:54

So it's either the kingdom of god or the kingdom of satan and given

51:00

All of scripture deuteronomy 18 1 samuel 15 ezekiel 13 isaiah 47 all the scripture that Clearly states that astrology is a sin.

51:10

Well, that must mean that it comes from the other kingdom. It's coming from the devil So it's demonically inspired.

51:16

It's a demonically inspired practice And it's the practice of predicting future events and that does correlate to birth charts right because the birth chart is

51:25

Your like I said in the last episode I used to call it the ash the blueprint It's the time stamp of when you were born

51:32

And you can allegedly use the planets and the the moon and the sun and the seasons to Understand as those planets, you know kind of filter through your chart as your life goes on To kind of predict your personality and your lifespan and the types of relationships you'll get into And so on and so forth and it's all again by the movements of the stars and the moons and the planets

51:53

So it's divination and it's evil and you contrast that with what the gospel actually says that the sun and the moon and stars are

52:00

It's satan completely perverting it and Satan is the one therefore supplying the insight to the practice of astrology satan was the one that was giving me that information

52:11

Which is terrifying to think about in retrospect, but it's true. Um So the thing is using astrology as your identity or of any sort of self -fulfilling prophecy

52:21

Because I do honestly and it's concerning I do have christians that come to me Not just new age people

52:27

I have christians that come to me in my dms and say That they're interested in astrology because of how it seems

52:32

It seems like it's real. It seems like it's spot on. Well, yeah, obviously there's going to be accuracy in it

52:38

You wouldn't be drawn to it in the first place. That doesn't mean that it is Biblically sound or something that you should be doing because it ultimately is using satan's plans

52:48

For your life to keep you from god. That's the entire premise of it and You know, my identity was just so wrapped up in that and um

52:59

It got it does get to this point where now With all this idolatry of the self that accompanies astrology

53:07

Yeah Now i'm saying things like you have the authority to forgive yourself and bring your own salvation like in that clip you just played but I have an entire episode about this actually about self -help culture because I was really involved with That entire scene before I was into new age stuff

53:26

But that's it's literally like a sliding board self -help culture is a sliding board in a new age stuff because you start reading books about Like how to make yourself better and it's all about this like claiming your own power sort of thing.

53:38

So It's narcissism just wrapped up in a different kind of package. But the thing is self -help is is is self -defeating um

53:46

Because again, it's relatively truth because how can you be both the problem and the solution? um

53:53

And as I always preached on the moon and back it was all about the self -healing journey and that's all based on the notion all that stuff about radical self -forgiveness and you know

54:05

Bringing yourself your own salvation. That's all based on the Context that we are inherently good people, which as we know from scripture we are not

54:15

And it compituates a lifestyle ultimately in which the self is centered it allocates this higher self narrative you know that Either waters down god

54:27

Because you hear me talk about god in some of these episodes, but it waters down god by kind of Making him a parallel to this idea of a higher self again

54:38

It's that narcissism as I am god Or it just completely eliminates god altogether which either way it's an abomination

54:46

So this idea of radical self -forgiveness that i'm preaching about in that episode It's based on that notion that you are enough and two corinthians 3 5 says

54:55

Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything from us, but our sufficiency is from god

55:02

So we are not enough to heal or forgive ourselves It's a house of cards that entire podcast that I had moon and back podcast

55:11

Everything that I was practicing and doing and believing an entire house of cards um

55:17

Excuse me and the moon I use this analogy actually In my very last moon and back podcast episode where I said the moon is literally a dead rock

55:27

And if you want a better metaphor for what astrology is The moon gets its light from the sun.

55:35

It's not even its own light source Like the moon the moon is literally false light So if there's a

55:40

I don't know what better analogy I could ever use to describe astrology other than that. It's literally false light and we know from scripture that satan comes as false light, um and one more thing about that whole notion of self -healing because I just I talk about that so much and I see now how corrupt that is because So like self -healing and self -hate is basically just one in the same because it's it's still the the core of self and my old philosophy and my old belief system that surrounded moon and back podcast my

56:16

My belief system that surrounded my astrology practice was kind of like you are better than you realize sort of thing like you're better than you realize and you are enough and Your own grace can carry you through anything.

56:29

Um You are your own healer, but the gospel says literally the exact opposite of that the gospel says

56:35

You're actually worse than you realize And only jesus is enough, right? um

56:42

And I used to think like your strengths were your greatest were greater your strengths were greater than your your your struggles sort of thing and That's wrong.

56:54

Like his grace is greater than our sins. Um And i've come to realize like I said,

56:59

I have an entire episode about this on heaven and healing about self -help culture because the opposite of self of self -help

57:09

People will say well if you're not trying to heal like if you're not trying to heal yourself If you're not trying to be better, then does that just mean you hate yourself?

57:16

Like no, it's not about that at all. It doesn't mean you shouldn't try to be better The opposite of self -help is not self -hate.

57:21

It's it's self -sacrifice And that's what scripture calls us to again john 3 30.

57:28

He must become greater I must become less Because jesus is the vine john 15 5.

57:33

He is the vine. We can do nothing without him and as a christian now i've come to realize that Human flourishment does not come from self -healing.

57:48

It doesn't come from Doing moon rituals every two weeks of following the patterns of the astrological signs or the zodiac wheel any of that it comes from Not the actualized self.

58:02

It comes from the abiding self and the abiding self Is the self that abides in christ so it's all about christ

58:10

And there's nothing wrong with wanting to be better. There's nothing wrong with you know wanting to Write your wrongs if you will but It comes from it has to come back to the motivation.

58:23

Like is your motivation to exalt the lord? Or is it to exalt yourself?

58:29

Yeah, because moon and back podcast was entirely about Self -exhaustion it was entirely about self -healing self -enlightenment

58:37

Self just self self self self self. I was self -centered literally I was self -centered and I spent every episode talking about how to use the moon to the advantage of the self and I got nowhere

58:46

Like I just kept looping through the same patterns over and over and over. I kept looping through the same stuff the same pain

58:53

Hoping that the next moon cycle would help me find that self -actualization or that self -healing that I was really really searching for You know the next eclipse or whatever and it never does and the thing is it never will it's never going to do that Yeah, and so in this process when you and I appreciate you describing all this

59:10

But as far as a worldview goes, I mean you believe that you had you know You were getting divine messages and you kind of say that in the podcast

59:18

But did you sort of have all as well too when you mentioned the self? Did you have a i'm assuming you you were adhering to the pantheistic worldview or?

59:26

All is one all is self and you're tapping into the divine consciousness. Is that that's that's what you're adhering to correct, right?

59:33

I didn't know what pantheism even meant, but that's what it was. Yeah, right And so what

59:38

I think is really important too is that worldviews do have consequences And that what you were experiencing and andrew i'll let you jump in here as well, too is that You were

59:48

So there's a book a really excellent book by someone named peter jones He's done a lot of stuff with archie sproul negan air ministries and he's done a lot

59:55

He's written a lot on specifically on narcissism. So there's an excellent book called one or two Seeing a world of difference and is primarily talking about the contrast between theism or christian biblical christianity

01:00:07

But also a paganism paganism, which is one ism and so What you end up seeing is that in one ism, it's a worldview where it's all is one

01:00:17

There's no distinction between creator and creation. So all is one and then you have two ism was that there's a complete distinction between creator and creation and so from a personal standpoint, you're you're explaining how you are

01:00:32

Especially in part one you are trying to do all of these different Things to try and tap into the divine

01:00:39

Ultimately to Ascend to reach healing because ultimately this this your healing journey

01:00:46

Is that the journey presupposes you're going from point a to point b and in the new ways that typically, uh adheres to ascension

01:00:54

But the problem is is that within the worldview of one ism where all is self

01:01:00

There is no way to ascend Outside of the self because all is self so consequential so con so as a consequence

01:01:09

You are in a never -ending cycle because you can never escape Outside of yourself because all is one so it's almost you talk about how you open your mouth and you're refuting yourself

01:01:21

The whole journey of the new age is a self -refutation and never self because there's no end in sight

01:01:27

That's why we have every person we talk to there's always One thing after another after another whereas when you have two ism true biblical two ism where you have

01:01:38

God who is out the triune god who is outside of his creation? who Who became flesh he became like one of us and it says no one has ascended

01:01:48

To no one has ascended except the one who except for the son of man just paraphrasing it and so you have god come in the flesh who makes

01:01:56

Reconciliation between us between us and becomes our perfect mediator and then we can

01:02:04

We can now have peace with god and we have our sins forgiven, but we get god and that's where what you're seeing and your whole testimony angel is so awesome because what you're truly seeing is in in the last year this distinction between one is the futility of one ism

01:02:23

Where there's no end in sight where you can't escape the self versus What happens when you experience true?

01:02:31

reconciliation and peace and fellowship with with god With jesus god come in the flesh

01:02:38

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and check out all the awesome merch back to the show Andrew, what are your thoughts real quickly, man?

01:03:27

Yeah, you're making me think uh essentially of john 1 18 where it says no one has ever seen god Except the unique and only son the monogamous theos

01:03:35

Who is at the bosom of the father has made him known in terms of our relationship with god the difference between one ism and two ism is this is that uh

01:03:44

You cannot uh, let's say do x y or z to tap into this divine message

01:03:50

Right instead in the incarnation what we see with jesus is the exact opposite It takes the divine to speak with us, you know, he comes down and lives with us

01:03:59

He takes on flesh for us to even understand him. The only way to know the father is through the son

01:04:04

So even if we look back at the beginning of human history, we have the fall Uh in the garden, uh, jonathan edwards has a beautiful Section in one of his writings that speaks to this and i'm paraphrasing paraphrasing it horribly

01:04:16

But it's i'll have to find it. Maybe i'll put it in the show notes later But it says immediately after the fall in the garden, uh, jesus christ, uh, the logos the pre -incarnate jesus

01:04:25

He began his mediatorial work right away Right in that moment when the fall happened the face of the father was set against his creation

01:04:33

We were once the pinnacle of his creation created in the image of god in which we received his love his blessing and mercy right, but Instead of uh, not mercy yet because we had not fallen but anyways, uh, but once we fell

01:04:46

Yeah, we we we then uh were the pinnacle of his wrath and a point and the one way that we were given mercy was the fact that Uh, the pre -incarnate logos was the first to even shed the animal skins to cover adam and eve right it took god intervening between man

01:05:01

In order to subvert the wrath of the father So what we have in all of human history even to understand who god is to understand who we are

01:05:10

We better thank jesus christ because he's been our mediator from adam to now you see what i'm saying

01:05:16

But what happens in with one ism? We can't really understand what self is right?

01:05:22

We use these people use words like self -care self self -help, but they don't even understand self

01:05:27

They don't understand what it is. Instead. They become selfish, right? They have a aversion or a thought of the self.

01:05:33

It's an ish of the self but and also it's also self -centered in terms of what Of what even the self actually is because who tells us what human humanity is?

01:05:43

It's god god created us for a reason for a purpose So in order like we said to find our life

01:05:49

We need to pick up our cross and follow christ to be selfless in a sense. The gospel is the exact opposite There's nothing that we can do

01:05:56

Uh to to tap into god, no, it literally took god and his rich mercy to dwell with us

01:06:04

To save us of our sins for us to even know him No one has ever seen god except the unique and only son the monogamous theos who is in the bosom of the father

01:06:12

He has made him known throughout all of human history That is the grace and it is a mercy if you look to know who god is the father in any other way other than the bible and through his son jesus christ

01:06:23

You're going to find only an ish You're only going to find an issue. You're not going to find the the true thing. That's that's just the way it is

01:06:29

You know, I I had I believed I always believed in god, but I always I say all the time that it was

01:06:35

I see now It was just the idol of god that I created in my mind that I really believed in it was never god

01:06:42

It was never the god of the gospel, which is the true god and It's exactly it's exactly right what you said.

01:06:51

You're never gonna you will never find him In any in any other way, this is just it this is just how it is and I I really see how people that are in the new age people that I I love dearly still that I I witness.

01:07:08

Um, They are just constantly going to these rituals Going even to different countries, you know on retreats and things

01:07:19

Constantly trying there's always something new with the new age There's always something else.

01:07:26

There's always some sort of ceremony to go to There's always some sort of new modality to try if it's like a sound bath, you know there's so many different things that you're just going to keep grasping and It's going to slip through your fingers like water because none of it is the bread of life, which is what jesus is and it's

01:07:48

It's really sad for me now to witness that in other people and I don't say that again in any pompous or boastful way

01:07:55

It just breaks my heart because I was there for so long And I didn't recognize it because that's what satan does he puts on spiritual blinders and you just you literally cannot see

01:08:07

Um acts 412 says there's salvation in no one else and that's the thing.

01:08:12

Jesus is the savior He is the one that you're looking for I say that all the time on my platform is that Every time that you get into downward dog and you exhale

01:08:23

Every time that you lay down on that reiki table every time that you seek out a medium or a tarot reader

01:08:31

Or you want to learn about your moon sign or you know your rising sign you're looking for jesus

01:08:37

That's what you're looking for. You just don't know it, but he's right there And he's knocking

01:08:43

And all we have to do is just let him in Yeah Yeah, and no, it's so good.

01:08:49

And that's I think one of the my favorite quotes, uh, you know, our show in many ways was

01:08:56

Uh really inspired and we got a lot of inspiration from the late. Dr Walter martin, uh from his book kingdom of the cults

01:09:03

And he also wrote a book that's more of a compilation of his lecture But it's called kingdom of the occult which if you don't have that you should get a copy of that.

01:09:12

In fact we'll see we might talk afterwards, but um his section on their astrology is is just excellent as well, too, but He had a moment at the end of one of his lectures, you know, he was giving a prayer

01:09:24

And um, you know one of the things he said Um as he was praying and he said, uh have he says it's like give us help us to have compassion

01:09:35

And the love of christ for these people who are seeking out for help But not from thee but from the forces of evil and I remember when

01:09:43

I heard that You know, like he's praying you just tell like this is the motive for this man's ministry he's now the lord and it's like you just knew like that was his heart and motive and Like when

01:09:56

I hear that like that's like that just hit me to this like when I see people People who are close to me

01:10:02

Like that's when they're meditating where they're when they're going to these retreats and they're doing, you know

01:10:07

You look at you know influencers like russell brand and aubrey marcus and these people who are you know

01:10:13

Have been through legitimate trauma been through these different uh, you know experiences and it's very easy to try and You know post these you know

01:10:24

These videos or images in isolation of someone doing something and it kind of maybe make mock or make fun of them

01:10:30

But you need to realize they are trying To find that jesus -shaped hole in which you found by the grace of god

01:10:38

And it's and and I think it's very very important just to be able to have Compassion and really for their hearts to be broken for these people who don't know the lord that they would come to truly know christ

01:10:49

And i'll just say one other thing too is that I think it's really important as well, too especially

01:10:55

For people who are brand new who are coming out of the new age is that there's the importance of discipleship

01:11:02

But also to be able to give grace and understanding and understand that not everyone has it together

01:11:08

You know in in the whole world of of online discernment It's a bit of a cesspool to be honest

01:11:14

And it's very easy to look at one thing that one person's doing wrong like so doreen for example

01:11:19

Who's a good friend of ours and she's listening in shout out to doreen um Is that when she first got saved she was just trying to put the pieces together about who jesus is and she was

01:11:30

I think she was even sort of making christian tarot cards And if I if i'm not mistaken or at least to some extent

01:11:38

She was trying to at least figure out how can I utilize tarot cards along with being a christian? And she wants and again, she realized that similar to how you were trying to bridge the gap immediately

01:11:48

But then you became convicted Doreen was then convicted not because of the verse in isaiah 47 But it was because of the passage in deuteronomy 18

01:11:56

Where talks about there should not be any of you who was a medium these things are an abomination to the lord And this broke her and you know that broke her heart

01:12:03

And so yeah, just just those two things are very very very big but um, but yeah, what any any thoughts you have on that is felt like I feel like just really like to say that but Yeah, I I agree that it's very important to have grace.

01:12:19

Um and compassion And I mean, I just admit like total vulnerability that sometimes it's hard for me to figure out that dance of How do

01:12:28

I how do I tell the truth? But how do I do it? In a way that comes off 100 compassion compassionately, but also firm, you know, because As you read the gospel a lot you realize that jesus

01:12:45

He said some pretty harsh things, I mean he just he just told it like it he told it like it is but He was never he was never mean so he was firm

01:12:54

And that's kind of how I try and I try and take that same approach as jesus did I try and be firm and direct

01:13:00

But I never want to I never want someone to think that i'm being mean but at the same time If the truth offends somebody that's not you know, that's no one's responsibility.

01:13:10

That's it's because You're essentially Shining a light onto their darkness and they're pretty comfortable in the darkness

01:13:18

They don't they don't want to see it whether or not they're aware of it Is a totally different story, but they are they're comfortable in their sin and they don't want to hear it

01:13:26

But that doesn't mean that you should ever stop trying to share the truth It's like we said at the beginning like, you know, it's it's loving to tell the truth.

01:13:34

It's loving to call out the deception of these practices because they're

01:13:39

They're a path to hell and that's that's compassionate for me to say that it's not mean

01:13:46

No, no, absolutely. In fact, just one thing just in response to that, you know, I think a lot of times, you know It's very easy, especially, you know as uh, you know for your even for yourself as a young believer, especially in the online world

01:13:57

There is just a temptation to be able to say things to people In such a way that you would never say face to face and unfortunately that is just the nature of social media

01:14:07

So I mean I think there is a general principle that if this is not something you would say to someone's face

01:14:13

You probably shouldn't be typing it out and it's very easy just with the nature of you know notifications Someone tags you in a comment and all of a sudden your blood gets boiling

01:14:22

And you want to kind of be right and you know that people are watching it's so easy to get it caught up in that But one, you know, if you get caught up in that I would say just take a step back breathe think through Okay, what am

01:14:33

I actually going to say but also meditate on this verse this is practical both on social media And in real life, this is colossians chapter 4

01:14:42

Starting in verse 5 where the apostle paul says conduct yourself with wisdom towards outsiders

01:14:48

Making the most of the opportunity and let your speech always be with grace As though seasoned with salt so that you so that you will know how you should respond to each person so I would say

01:15:01

One apply that verse and if you don't know how to do that specifically I would say

01:15:07

Examine yourself think of the conversations that you're having and then pray like meditate on that verse Pray on it and then ask that the lord would actually give you the ability

01:15:17

To conduct like do that like literally pray out that verse and I think that'll be very it's it's a at least my experience

01:15:25

It's been a very very practical way to where You end up operating in the spirit versus the flesh

01:15:32

So it's no longer about winning an argument or being right like we don't need to be right like jesus is the way the truth

01:15:37

In the life and I can take punches. I can take 10 to 1, you know, i'll take all the punches all day

01:15:43

But you know what if i'm operating the spirit i'm going to hit him with scripture I'm going to get him the gospel and ultimately all

01:15:48

I need is that one clean shot And that will be where the holy spirit lord will bring conviction to that person

01:15:55

Uh, andrew, do you have any go ahead go ahead go ahead angela I just I wanted to touch on that with the social media component because um,

01:16:03

I understand um how easy it is to get very reactive online, especially when

01:16:09

People are are so triggered by whatever truth you may be sharing about the gospel or about jesus

01:16:15

I get bullied constantly online for this stuff and it's it's kind of you just kind of got to turn the other cheek, you know and You have to remember that these people

01:16:30

Are hurting they are in pain And they might not know that but they are hurting and you know

01:16:40

When you're reactive like that and angry and Scathing and vehement the way that some of these people act, you know when they when they come at you

01:16:50

For whatever it is that you're talking about Whether or not it's jesus whenever anyone acts like that with vehemence and and malice it's because they're in pain

01:17:00

And they need they need jesus. They need jesus and at that very moment

01:17:06

You might be the one link to jesus. So you have to just remember that and act

01:17:13

Active christ -like as you can Absolutely. Andrew. Do you have any uh, do you have any other thoughts as we wrap up here?

01:17:20

Yeah, I just want to echo that it's like when you're getting in a conversation with somebody in evangelistic conversation conversation in general, uh when the gospel is on your lips, uh and speaking with grace is understanding the fact that Without god's grace you would be in the same position as them

01:17:37

The exact same position as them. So when you're speaking with them, you're speaking in terms of humility

01:17:43

Right, you're speaking in terms of like an understanding at a level saying that I was once dead as well

01:17:50

I was once dead Here's the gospel that has the power of god for salvation and I can love you through it

01:17:55

That that means i'm going to speak the truth in love and jesus said he said that the world will hate you Why because they hated him first, right?

01:18:03

They were so comfortable in their sins Israel was is that when the lord of life appeared to them they put him on a cross

01:18:09

They put him on a cross because he told them the truth He challenged them and they didn't want to hear it the light in the life of all men was in the world

01:18:17

So they threw him on they threw him on the cross, right? So we must understand that even in that adversity we must act like jesus, right?

01:18:25

What's the scripture say that though he was reviled he never reviled against them Right x y and z, uh more in that scripture.

01:18:31

That's the that's the first part that just came to my mind I wish I could remember the rest of it. It's a no it's in peter Yeah, it's in peter

01:18:37

But it's it's an amazing verse for us to understand as christians that if we're getting into a conversation with somebody which we should be

01:18:44

We should be we're told to go and do that Understand that you were just once like them

01:18:51

Just you were and with love is the reason why you're telling them the truth and if they are to get angry with you

01:18:56

Don't get angry back. It's it's not worth it. That's not the point That's not the reason why you're there to speak with them in the first place, right?

01:19:02

We don't want to bring a reproach against the name of christ We don't want to use his name in vain being a representation

01:19:09

Uh a representative shall I say of the king to these people? And then you're going to act in such a manner that the king would not that's using his name in vain

01:19:17

So we must be humble And we must speak the truth and love Do you have any kind of last thoughts anything you want to just say as we uh wrap up?

01:19:24

I know we've covered a lot here, but what are any last thoughts that you have? um yeah, so I I wanted to just mention that Because there was there was another there was another clip that we didn't play and that's fine

01:19:40

But I I talked in that clip about suffering And about pain and making your pain your superpower sort of thing and I wanted to just say that you know,

01:19:51

I I used to come from this place where I thought we could alchemize our pain and kind of manifested as purpose and that was coming from a place where I was

01:19:59

I was Actually suffering so immensely that I needed yeah To I needed to grasp onto anything that I could because the alternative was suicide, honestly and as I came into Christianity, you know

01:20:13

You kind of have like these rose -colored jesus glasses on For the first few months where everything is just perfect and great and then life starts to happen or the persecution starts to happen

01:20:22

And in that verse you just read that the suffering happens and the thing is um, because a lot of people in new age will ask me this, you know, like Why why is there why is there still pain?

01:20:32

Well, here's the thing God promises us eternal life, but he doesn't promise us an easy life and exactly what andrew said like they crucified your lord

01:20:41

You can't expect to walk through this this earthly existence with just sunshine and rainbows all the time because it's not going to happen and um

01:20:51

I just want everyone listening to know that that does not mean god's not with you because he is with you every

01:20:57

Step of the way and he tells us that In the new new heaven and new earth that that he will wipe all our tears away and that there will be no pain

01:21:06

And so that's something to hold on to and to remember that you can you don't you're not responsible for your own pain you don't have to alchemize anything you just cast onto him for he cares for you and tells us that peter and um

01:21:18

Just jesus loves you so much and I would You know this time last year

01:21:24

I would sit and kind of like give myself the glory for where i'm at in life you know, i've picked myself up by my bootstraps and i've gotten here i've

01:21:32

I've made it through I endured all the bullying I made it through the struggle of my grandmom's death and i'm the one that lost all this weight

01:21:42

I'm the one that endured all this pain and suffering and heartache and trial and loss, but the truth is

01:21:48

God was with me that whole time even when I didn't know it and god is with us because he is sovereign through all things

01:21:54

He is the one it's his providence. It's his it's him. It's always him and we can choose to Defy that but even that comes from him.

01:22:04

He will let us because he is sovereign He will let us go against his will and his ways because he is the sovereign one and so I just really

01:22:14

Want to make that known to people that all all of this I I get I get praise and I don't necessarily like it sometimes because people will say you're really helping me

01:22:23

You're really you're really you're really showing me things and i'm like, that's not me. That's that's god.

01:22:28

That's god So just remember to always give god the glory because he's the one that's worthy of it None of us ever are

01:22:38

Yeah, that that is a that is a perfect way to wrap up here. Uh, angela. Thank you so much for coming on Uh taking the time, uh, just to really share your story linearly

01:22:47

But also it was really a cool thing to see you again respond, you know to your old self and so Uh, yeah, just real quick and one last time for anyone who wants to find out how to get ahold of you

01:22:58

Where can they find you? So you can find heaven and healing podcast on spotify apple and youtube right now and i'm on instagram

01:23:07

A lot, um, my instagram is angela marie yuchi. Angela marie ucci

01:23:14

So you can find me there. Awesome. And thank you. Thank you guys so much for inviting me on this was really awesome

01:23:19

I really appreciate it. And I just want to personally thank you both for um, again, get all glory to god because he's the one that put you both right in front of me and Jeremiah, you've been like like a spiritual big brother.

01:23:31

You've just been really supportive of me and help and just Really kind of steering me in in the holy and right path and direction

01:23:41

So just thank you for that personally. Awesome. Thank you so much. We'll praise god for that. All right, uh, if you all

01:23:48

Uh appreciate this episode, please let us know what you thought leave a comment or social media And as always a program like cultish cannot continue without your support

01:23:56

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01:24:02

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01:24:07

Thank you all for listening in we will talk to you all next week on cultist where we enter into the kingdom of the cults