Open Q&A with Justin Peters and a special guest

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00:00

Hi, I'm Andrew Rappaport from the Christian Exhibit. Let me do that again. Yikes I'm on yours for Justin here must that must be it

00:15

Welcome to apologetics live we're here to answer your questions and challenges about God and the

00:22

Bible meet your hosts from striving for eternity Ministries Andrew Rappaport, dr. Anthony Sylvester and pastor

00:29

Justin Pierce Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program apologetics live.

00:38

It is a pleasure and honor to be with you tonight I know you probably weren't expecting to see me, but I suppose

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I am the host of sorts tonight and I will shortly be joined by a good friend

00:52

Chris Hough He's going to be joining us as well as a special surprise guest our guest has been in Apologetical broadcast purgatory for the last month or so and None other than Andrew Rappaport Andrew.

01:11

Are you here? It is good to be on my own show finally Oh Justin how you were right?

01:21

There is such a thing as purgatory. How was it? It was bad at first but got better in the end

01:32

You've had all your sins burned off and ready to join us back with us here

01:41

It's something like that yes, but it is good to be back on apologetics live It has been you know, you have been more regular here than I have been in in quite some time

01:53

So, so yeah, but it is good to be back just I know, you know some of the background to that We're let me before we get into that though, we're gonna have an open

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Q &A so anyone who wants can join us just go to Apologetics live .com.

02:08

That's apologetics live .com. And that is where you'll be able to Join, ask any questions that you have for us.

02:16

So apologetics live .com is where to go. So And I should throw in that this is a ministry of striving for eternity

02:25

So if you want to check out striving for eternity, that would be encouraged also mentioned

02:30

Justin's website justinpeters .org Great site to go to I just actually was referring someone over there this week

02:38

Justin Yeah, they may have been Dabbling or so with you know, something called, you know,

02:46

NAR Yeah Yeah, so I sent them over to your site and Chris you are the the host of matter of theology podcast

02:57

Which is a proud member of the Christian podcast community So if you want to check out all the podcasts, which this is one of them just go to Christian podcast community org

03:07

So we're gonna have an open Q &A anyone can ask any questions But since it has been so long

03:12

Justin, I should let everyone know how I'm doing why I was gone I know, you know, but I I basically some of you guys know

03:20

I've been struggling with some health issues a very high blood pressure whatnot My wife was very concerned for me and she basically wants me around to make sure

03:29

I take good care of her so very important and for that reason basically with Running striving for eternity full -time

03:40

Pastoring a church full -time doing some other things to make money I Something had to give and so basically we had at the church

03:50

This this month this week. Actually, I wrapped up both first Peter and Mark and so we got one of the other guys

03:57

It's gonna start teaching midweek Bible study And then I'm gonna be preaching through James for the majority of this year

04:03

Which is something I've already done all the research and study on having preached through that once before so that's gonna reduce the amount of time necessary To do that.

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So with that the hope is is that I'll have more time to be able to now start devoting to To all the other stuff that I was doing it's driving fraternity.

04:23

So I just had to find the right balance What is it Justin happy happy wife happy life

04:34

That's not in the Bible, but it's like pseudo -canonical I Think we inspire but it's it's pretty true kind of kind of like it's kind of like apocryphal

04:48

Yeah, yeah exactly, right Yeah, so it's it is good to be back I I the the irony was

04:55

I had said to the guys that I'd come back in May so I was supposed to be back starting in May and Justin UI and Anthony were talking last night and I realized well, let's see.

05:04

I'm gonna be in Oregon at Kofi's Church preaching on the 5th

05:09

I'm gonna be it in truth matters conference on the 19th, and then I'll be in Washington DC on the 26th

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So I really only have two days in May. I'll be here or one day

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So I figure we figured we better I better come on now. So so with that wanna just give a chance to Answer any questions that folks have we would prefer if you come on in but we do have one that popped up here quickly

05:40

So before it goes away, I'll put this up because I think this one might be interesting for us to to discuss

05:46

Cody Robbins asks the questions You have gotten heat from Julie Roy's for quoting

05:53

Potestria, can you please lay out the position on that and Julie Roy's and I'm sure

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I Would be happy to jump on with Julie Roy's but I think she's referring specific or he's referring to specifically you

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Because I didn't quote anything from Potestria Protesty has written several articles refuting

06:17

Julie Roy's and just showing her shoddy shoddy journalism the way she constructs her articles that intentionally leave out some

06:29

Pertinent facts that actually are exculpatory for Grace Community Church and John MacArthur she conveniently leaves those out and the even our headlines even the head the titles of her articles are

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Very misleading and so protest he has written some really good articles Demonstrating that showing that documenting that and so I've just I've had

06:51

David Hinky who runs my ministry Facebook page put those up on there and and regardless of of how you know, some view some of the some of the articles on Like a protest you whether they're, you know, a little too snarky at times, but but nonetheless the the material that they had was good and so I put it on there and the jelly

07:15

Julie Roy's is is She is a woman who Okay, let me say this.

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I Was trying to get my attention on Twitter well, my

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Twitter account has been Deader than Genghis Khan since before kovat ever came on.

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I got off of Twitter in October of 2019 so so much for you know, this

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Investigative journalist who didn't even know I hadn't been on Twitter for two and a half years So You know,

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I mean it's just on and on and on Julie Royce has had it in for John MacArthur ever since John MacArthur said of Beth Moore go home ever since that she has

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She had had her sights set on John MacArthur and I can tell you, you know, some people say that I am like a

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John MacArthur some people have said sycophant, which is rude I'm not a

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Just appreciate the man. Is he is he perfect? Well, no, none of us. None of us is perfect that's not the point, but this is a man who has been who's been a faithful shepherd for 53 years and counting and I can tell you one thing

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I Have heard just in the last couple weeks and some of my travels. I've been down to bitter,

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Florida preaching in a church there that is Led several of their elders or former

08:47

Grace Community Church elders and on staff at Grace Community Church, you know years past and Everybody that I've talked to they say that one thing that John MacArthur has zero tolerance for and I mean none is sexual immorality

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If if you are if you are on staff at Grace Community Church or an elder

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And you are You are caught in some kind of sexual immorality. You're done. I mean

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John MacArthur There's no let's sit down and talk about why you did what you did or like, you know

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Let's talk about why you are the way you are. No, you clean out your desk. You're done and They've had to do that you know over the course of 53 years, it's

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Not surprising that they've had to do that several times and they have it but that's the point they've done it so Yeah, Julia Royce can

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I don't know. I have I have no respect for she and and What's come out in the last week or so this book that she wrote her own book that was published

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I think in 2017 she details this bizarre creepy relationship that she herself had with a when she was a youth minister with a with a girl in her youth group and I mean you read you read about these details and it's disturbing.

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I mean she is guilty of Talk about judge not lest you be judged Matthew 7 one

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That's a verse that is so often taken out of context and misused it actually fits with Julie Royce She actually has done the things

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That she is trying to bring that John MacArthur down for doing that He never did in the first place, but she actually has done them.

10:35

So anyway, don't get me started. Sorry. I digress Well, you know one of the things with the article and most people are talking about this most recent article

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I mean, she's you've already pointed out. She's she's tried several articles, right? She did one We're all John MacArthur has he lives this lavish lifestyle and it he criticizes, you know, the the word -of -faith people and Yes, he they talk about her, you know, she talks about the size of his house

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She neglects to say that the size of her house is exactly the same size as his house

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And then she talks about the fact that what his house is worth today not like what was it 50 years ago when he bought it?

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Right. So the area changed You know, my in -laws bought a place in New York and when they died, yeah, it was worth over a million dollars

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But in New York that small little place Is is very little compared to the prices in New York So you have to compare what the the price is to everything else around it.

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And what did he what did he pay for it? When he bought it Has that all been an appreciation?

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You know, he he hasn't sold it then then she you know tried going after him for a watch that was a gift

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So this one seems and I'm saying seems like it's really really wrong that seems like You know the the and and keep in mind they're going after MacArthur when it wasn't even

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MacArthur involved in the council From as far as I know, okay. So first off, you know, if she really was looking to you know defend the victim she would defend the victim against the people that actually put her out of the church and That wasn't

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John MacArthur So that that right off the bat and one of the things I was actually thinking when I you know

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When I got back to this show what I did want to do and maybe this will be a thing We could discuss tonight

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Is how to discern discerners? Royce places herself as the discerner

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But as you pointed out and as I'm starting to point out, there's there's things these people people will do That they're being dishonest in saying that they're trying to warn you against this

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You know people in the in the sheepfold in the flock that are that are bad So Julie Roy's is trying to warn against John MacArthur because he's bad

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But she's blaming him for something that he didn't do she's blaming him for something that at best

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You can say one of his elders did at best. Yeah. Yeah, I think Andrew there are a couple of thoughts that come to mind when concerning Julie Roy's and Chris Han holt's who who's the co -host of voice of reason radio?

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He and I roomed together and For the Shepherds conference and he and I talked about this You know

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But one of the words that comes to mind when you when you hear Julie Roy's or you see these things that she's posting is factious that that word factious and Titus 3 and 10 and 11 and the

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LSB says reject the factious man after a first and second warning verse 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning being self -condemned and We're starting to see

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Some of that stuff come out with her and what one other passage of Scripture Is Proverbs 1425 a truthful witness delivers souls, but he who breathes out lies is deceitful and So when it comes to maybe discerning discerner is one of the things that I think about if we think about our brother

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Justin Peters Here, you know, his goal is is the the sanctification and the salvation positionally progressively of souls in In the discernment that he does that's his goal

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His goal is to warn the Saints is to is to to wave the red flag and say stop

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This is antithetical to Scripture. Why what is the purpose behind that to deliver souls?

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When you think about somebody like Julie Roy's and others Their whole goal is their own platform and deceit and lies

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Period yeah, that's that's and someone Jason Cave just said, you know, we must look at their fruits. Absolutely.

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Yeah, absolutely Well, I mean John MacArthur. This is a man who? if those of you saw the interview

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I did with him and and and I say this because I really believe it that that God and his in his in his sovereignty has chosen to use

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John MacArthur's ministry in a in a more far of a more Far -reaching way just the sheer scope of it

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Right when you look at the seminary you look at the University you look at all the men that they have trained to be pastors you look at TMAI the churches a planet the the

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New Testament commentary said the systematic theology all the books or the radio the

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Making all of his sermons available for free on the internet that have gone all around the world

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I think God has used just in the sheer scope of his ministry God has used

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John MacArthur more than he has Anyone any single man since the apostolic era?

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Amen, I agree. Yeah Technology and where we are. Yeah, I mean Spurgeon it being the most quoted preacher as far as I know in history.

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Yeah but but He didn't have the scope that John MacArthur has because of the technology that's available

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Yeah, it took years for Spurgeon to get as quotable as you know

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Because people didn't have the quotes in their language and things And can you put up? Canada Carlos's comment right there so we can

16:16

I'd like to address that. Yeah. Yeah It says agreed brothers, but why doesn't

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MacArthur come out? With a statement and make things clear. So people are not confused by Julie Royce and I'll address this after you

16:31

Okay. All right, so My two cents on that two things one the issues that Julie Royce's are bringing up.

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Those are in -house church discipline issues that they have dealt with Going by the book the steps of Matthew 18.

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They're not for broadcast. They're not for public consumption Church discipline issues are not supposed to be for church for public consumption

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They're for the local body. I was I was there at a couple of a couple of years ago

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I was there when they were doing church discipline on someone and I won't name the person

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I just happen to be there as a guest visiting that particular Sunday They turn the cat television cameras off when they have to do that when they have to do church discipline

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They turn it off. They turn the cameras off. So So people around the world aren't aren't watching it why because it's it's none of their business

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It's a local it's there. It's a local church issue. It's their issue in their local body And so they deal with it appropriately.

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That's one thing the other thing The reason one of the reasons that John MacArthur and Grace Community Church have not come out with any more

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I mean they did make a kind of a statement on one of Julie Roy's articles

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But the reason they reason John MacArthur doesn't come out and answer all these things is because John anybody who knows

17:58

John MacArthur knows this About him. He doesn't defend himself I have heard

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John MacArthur say that he would not defend himself to Satan If Satan himself were accusing him, he wouldn't defend himself to Satan.

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He just he doesn't do that. That's that's not John MacArthur He just doesn't do it As long as he is standing on truth

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His conscience is clear and he knows that God is his judge not anybody else. And so he did he just doesn't respond

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Now other people who know him and love him and support him. They will do some of that on their own on What's the word

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I'm looking for Without having been asked by John MacArthur to do it

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They just do it on their own, but John MacArthur does not defend himself he doesn't answer those criticizing them and I think with a lot of wisdom in doing that because the thing about John MacArthur's enemies.

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I mean Aside from the charismatics. They they're the woke crowd the social justice crowd the feminist the egalitarians the woke

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You know the race baiters and all this kind of stuff. They're never Satisfied They're never satisfied if he were to answer one thing it would be

19:19

Yeah, but what about duh -duh -duh -duh -duh? Yeah, but what about this and that you know, they would all just it would always be a one -up

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Kind of thing and so it's a it's a they're never satisfied. There's no satisfying so that's why it doesn't because it's just a theological tar, baby

19:34

I Sometimes the things

19:41

Justin says a tar, baby You know that story Uncle Remus No Rare rabbit and briar

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Brer rabbit Brer Fox and uncle Remus. I remember those stories as a kid, but Yeah, you know rare rabbit.

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There was this Character Figure thing made out of tar and it had some eyes put on it was wearing a hat and Brer Rabbit thought it was real

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And Brer Rabbit started trying to talk to it and the tar, baby Wouldn't answer because of course it's an inanimate object and Brer Rabbit got mad at it

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You know how rude no so Brer Rabbit finally got so mad at the thing that he never answered it that he punched him

20:21

Of course his fist got stuck in it So he punched him with the other fist and it got stuck and then he kicked him and his feet got stuck in it

20:28

That's that's what would happen if John MacArthur started trying to answer Julie Royce.

20:34

Yeah, what about you know, it's well, let me you know Let me give a little bit of a longer longer answer because there are a couple things.

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I want to tie in with this. Okay first off so My first pastor actually he was he was the first graduating class of Master's Seminary And he used to as part of his job

20:54

He would clean the building there and he would clean John MacArthur's office he told me that MacArthur would get a

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Fresh stack one foot high of hate mail that he would read through every day and he'd have maybe an inch of fan mail and it was a new stack like every day and MacArthur would actually read and Respond to a lot of those letters and the responses that he'd respond or not

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Like let me let me defend myself, but thanking them for sending their criticism so That's the the character of the person we're discussing.

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But let me explain How does a Julie Royce or any of these discernment bloggers?

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How do they come about? Because there's there's there's a plethora of of these types Because that's then gonna get into the question of why doesn't

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MacArthur say anything So, let me start with how these guys start off usually what you find is you'll get someone who and I forget

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Julie Royce Exposed someone early on I forget who that first person was But with any of these people they they do mark

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Driscoll James McDonald James McDonald. That was it. That was never thinking Yeah, so so and and they'll usually do really good work that initial time and they get a following They get a platform and then what they want to do is keep that going

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They're trying to figure out the next person to expose So in other words, they're not looking to say hey this person

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I found out is dangerous and I need to warn people about that Yes, and they do that and then afterwards they're saying how do

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I keep the the platform going? How do I keep people listening to me? How do I keep people coming to me?

22:35

well I got to find someone else to go after and so they find someone else now that what are they doing now at that point?

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They've now changed to specifically be looking to attack Christians Why to build a platform for self

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Then what you end up having even the second third even maybe the fourth person They're still doing a really good work a lot of times

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But eventually they run out of people where they can dig up enough dirt that they find something legit

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And you start taking a little bit of shortcuts Maybe just not say everything you might say is true

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But not exactly in the same order and and this is what Julie Royce does as I pointed out earlier, right?

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She she mentions about John MacArthur's house. Is it true that that he has a house the size he has?

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Yes. Is it true? It's worth that much today. Yes, that doesn't mean he paid that much you see that details left out

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What you'll see often with these people is everything though. They everything they'll say may be true But they put it in a different order and by doing that they're purposely being deceptive so that Though they can claim everything they said is true

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They're specifically wording it in a way to lead you to a false conclusion

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They won't give they won't give all the details So telling half the truth is a lie

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When you're doing it for the purpose of deceiving and this is what ends up having and eventually with many of these bloggers

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What ends up happening is they just start outright lying. They just start to say, okay Well, we got to make this up literally heard from someone who wrote an article against John Piper I'm not a big fan of John Piper, but the person said that John Piper said quote

24:21

Works are necessary to earn salvation unquote and I went through every

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Book that that Piper had fortunately have logos and different tools to search him Could not find that quote in any of his books the closest

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I could come is it said that That works are necessary for salvation and he was referring to to the glorification our sanctification works being in glorification and So what you end up seeing is

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I end up going to that author and I said, where is this quote from? He said well, that's what he means.

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I said, no. No, you can't put it in quotes If he didn't actually say that and you added a word that totally changes the meaning and This person is saying well, that's what he actually means

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Well, he's defended the opposite and I think he would know better what he means This is they'll start to outright make things up.

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This is what ends up happening it's it's a it's a slow thing, but the ultimate goal is for a

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Platform now when I started into ministry We had I had a bunch of you know a bunch of theonomists that were coming after me because I'm dispensational and they didn't like it and I Defended dispensationalism and I kept asking the same questions that I think they had a hard time answering

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But the issue was it really frustrated me that people that I called brothers in Christ Were going out there and saying things.

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They knew were false because they told me they knew it was false and I Couldn't believe they did

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I talked to a friend of mine that's like at the time and he told me this is the way People do ministry. I said what he says.

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Oh, yeah, what they do is they find someone who's a little bit bigger than them Trash them to get the the audience from them and then they get bigger that way

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I'm like Matt. Come on that doesn't that can't possibly be the way things work Unfortunately, he's right.

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This is often how it works You know the way it all it often ends up working is that people will will go and this is where they build the platform

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They go after attacking someone else They get in some attention for doing it and people who the people who don't like MacArthur.

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They're going to Gravitate toward Julie Roy's because they already don't like MacArthur and they like what she's saying.

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They're not asking if it's true They just like having the ammunition so that they can hate whoever it is.

26:45

I Think that's an unchristian way of doing things. That's why it's driving fraternity. We started the Christian podcast community

26:51

We started discipling other ministries to help them not behave that way because that we want to disciple, you know

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Doing things in a Christian way crazy idea But the reason of John MacArthur so all that said

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I think the reason of John MacArthur is not going to respond is a he Wasn't involved number one the other elders were number two

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When you have a person like that They have nothing to lose by having a

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John MacArthur respond to them and everything to gain Because when when you get the response it only gears them up to a

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CCC I'm a I'm a big important person John MacArthur is responding to me That's what they're gonna end up doing and then that that gives them a larger audience

27:38

And that's the reason that I've been counseled by many people. I know many others who do that. They just don't respond Don't respond to it when it when it's the the response is as simple as this and and there was some response but You end up seeing when we look at at the timeline of things and this was the the thing that got me when

27:57

I looked at this whole Julie Royce thing And Chris after after this, I'm gonna throw it over to you to see what your thoughts are with it

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But when I looked at this whole Julie Royce thing, what I noticed was there's some important details.

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She leaves out Okay You know you end up seeing things like When you look at the timeline

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So there was like this Police, you know where she I guess she was trying to She was trying to get him if I remember correctly like get a

28:31

Restraining order on him and even the police didn't believe her side of the story. There was no no Accusation of sexual abuse for four years later

28:39

So why do we 20 years later? Are we gonna hold it against men for information?

28:45

They did not know at the time Now if she's gonna claim she knew that there was sexual abuse at that time that she was being disciplined

28:56

That wasn't she never came public with if it wasn't known for four more years So you can't hold that these men

29:04

Accountable for disciplining her based on the knowledge they have now, here's the simple thing I've been in situations like this

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I've counseled and I can tell you there are times where you have a woman who just wants out of a marriage.

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I've seen it and And they'll sit there and and they do not want to reconcile that marriage

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They want you pastor to say that they're right in getting a divorce so they can go off and even remarried

29:30

And when you look at two people and you see a guy who's saying I was wrong As a case

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I had to deal with I had a guy he was he was addicted to pornography He was looking at it regularly. It was an issue and His wife was saying he's committing adultery.

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I can divorce him and remarry and I Will wait like we were let's try to reconcile this here.

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And she was like no I have my way He committed adultery. I have my way out She was never looking for reconciliation.

30:03

I Intimacy for years until he finally had an affair and Then she said

30:10

I can get divorced. I said no you can't Because because she actually knowingly admitted that she was denying him that that relationship

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Waiting for him to have the affair so she can leave the marriage See then she's not looking to reconcile

30:28

Then who's in sin the one unwilling to reconcile when you look at Matthew 18 take a look at that It's in a context folks in the context of a prideful person and what you end up seeing in Matthew 18 is this

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Matthew 18 is for a person that refuses to repent That's who it's toward you have a person who refuses to repent

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And if you have one member of the marriage who's refusing to repent and one that's admitting he failed is

30:56

Wrong and trying to do better trying to show repentance You're going to side with the person who's showing repentance the one who's lacking repentance

31:04

You're not going to side with that. That's just the way that it ends up happening because Matthew 18 is for the unrepentant sinner

31:12

Not the repentant one. Okay, do you go through that process when someone refuses? So so the whole thing is why won't they will as and lastly as as Justin said

31:22

It's basically because of this that was it's it is an in -house thing and It is meant to be kept as private as possible and keep mind folks

31:30

If you want to go after the husband in that situation that Julie Roy's brings up Just remember the wife also was abusing the children

31:39

They Julie Roy's doesn't made me not want to mention that part that that they both had admitted to that.

31:45

So With that Chris, let me throw it over to you Yeah, you know

31:53

Ladies and gentlemen, the the court of public opinion isn't an actual court. Do we understand that?

32:00

Especially when it comes to matters of church discipline And and to to drag up something that took place 20 years ago

32:12

To not report all the facts Is it is a lie period?

32:18

You know, she just came out with another Another attempt that he covered up abuse.

32:24

He did this he did that You know and and tried to lay out all these facts and and it was

32:30

Again, it's it's stuff that's left out. It's stuff that's twisted. It's written in a way

32:36

To to create division. What is the purpose of church discipline?

32:42

It's restoration It's restoration and the purity of the bride

32:49

Period and and and so you don't you know trying to trying to bring all these facts out and Disparage someone as my brother drew

32:56

Vanita said who who's 50 plus years in ministry speaks for itself is

33:03

Is is nothing short of trying to create division and at that moment

33:08

Julie Roy's and her ilk as? Honholtz would say They are showing who their true father is and it ain't

33:16

Christ It's no member of the Holy Trinity. Their father is the devil and And and I believe their fruit their continued fruit shows that Christ is the one who builds his church.

33:30

Christ is the one who purifies his church. Christ is not going to use a woman who

33:39

Has poor theology number one has a questionable background number two to purify his church

33:46

Okay, that's not the way he works He is going to use Faithful men pastors and elders and he's going to use the events of the days if we've as we have seen over the last couple of years to shake the trees and to show visibly a separation of wheat from tares ladies and gentlemen brothers and sisters

34:08

Wide is the path that leads to destruction Narrow is the gate that leads to life and we're continuing to see that So, you know

34:20

John 844 is where I'm getting that as far as their father John 844 You are of your father the devil and you want to do the desires of your father

34:29

He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him

34:36

Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature for he is a liar and the father of lies

34:42

So anybody who's taking facts that may have happened or partial truth and twisting that For it's a to add to a framework of division

34:54

Guess who their father is guess who they're acting like the devil now one other thing and then

35:00

I'll Cuz Justin said something that I want to I want to comment on John MacArthur and the elders of grace

35:07

Community Church No, they're not perfect absolutely not and if you talk to any of them You'll understand that they believe and they know that there have been obviously over the last five decades been people on that staff who have have have sinned and and Fallen and they've been immediately dismissed

35:27

Let me also let you know that that same standard applies to the master seminary that if you don't meet that standard or if there's even if there's even an inkling of Deception you will not only will you not be allowed entrance?

35:42

You'll be banned from ever applying there because of that. They take this very very seriously now

35:50

Kofi Kofi said something deep bad discipleship. He said I wish they would release a statement. They don't need to they don't need to It is it is trust me.

35:58

They are not being wailed on They don't care and I and I don't mean that in a negative way like they just don't care

36:05

I mean like no they're focused on what what what we're commanded to do in Scripture and that's to go and make

36:13

Disciples and teach them to obey all that Christ has commanded us Yeah, and let me with the

36:21

Sun I said David who's backstage said it seems like some people treat adultery like a get out of marriage free card

36:29

And I think he's he has a valid point there Cody says this sometimes you need to look a little more closely through Though to make sure there is enough integrity some wolves blend in really well

36:44

Secret handshakes and backroom whispers can be a couple can accomplish much evil. And I mean

36:50

SPC can we say? right, I mean Justin we originally going to talk about, you know, first Baptist, Orlando SPC Church and what's going on there, which we'll see if we can get there

37:02

But let me give a shout out to Chris long holds if he would come in You know because first off he did say this

37:10

He said don't be going and given the facts into this Andrew It ruins the narrative and and you know, the reason why

37:17

I'd like Chris to come in We we had a question from Cody that I'd like to get to as well

37:23

Cody said I'd also like to hear you guys address the Tom Buck situation and so the reason that I would like him to come in is because you know the

37:34

Voice of reason radio did a rather lengthy and they you know, they're not You know just thinking podcast.

37:42

Okay, they don't go two and a half three hours. Okay, like just thinking guys. I They did a very lengthy show on voice of reason radio addressing the whole

37:59

Tom Buck thing and There is a lot of similarities here I mean It was actually listening to their podcast voice of reason radio that got me thinking hey when

38:08

I get back to apologetics live it would be good to do a show on discerning the discerners because So much of this it's the same

38:18

Pattern over and over and over again just different people doing it and the Tom Buck situation is the same thing and And I encourage you go to voice of reason radio and listen to that issue with Tom over Tom Buck and you'll see

38:32

I mean it was he Chris and Richard did a painstaking view of going through The whole the article that was laid out against Tom and and showing how yeah, they're just leaving out all these important details

38:49

Okay, so so for those who don't know what's up with with Tom Buck and and you know, I don't know you guys

38:54

I Haven't had time to follow it. I listened to voice of reason radio I'm thankful for them because one of the things they do is they give you all the links

39:02

So I went through some of the links there and started reading stuff But basically what it is is that there was you know

39:09

Jennifer Buck hit Tom's wife had said that in their early years of marriage there were some difficult times

39:16

It was then Used to say well that as if because there was some abuse early in the marriage.

39:22

That's happening today and Therefore he was permanently disqualified. I think there was even Of sexual abuse

39:29

Andrew by abuse. We're not talking We're not talking hardcore abuse.

39:35

We're talking about like she in the article. She One day she put a cold coke Can on the back of his neck and it startled when you reach around he like he grabbed a wrist and slapped it slapped

39:47

So we're not talking so that I just Abuse well, that's yeah that's what

39:54

I want to say because Chris went in through that and explaining like The the whole thing is they were they were implying it in such a way where it's they're saying abuse implying sexual abuse because from the article from what

40:07

Chris was saying and I you know, it's it's it's like they're implying that well If you're if you commit sexual abuse, you should be disqualified for it

40:13

But there was never a charge of that with him You know No No And the whole reason

40:19

Jennifer said it from her own testimony was because she wants people to realize even if you're in a difficult situation There it can get better Right and the whole the whole point the whole point of of their wonderful wonderful blog article on on g3

40:35

Was the restorative hope that the gospel brings? And and and and what people like David Bart a bum

40:43

Garner and Baptist Press have done is is Awful now did Tom and Jennifer are personal friends and and and and it's

40:53

You know Justin. I remember you said something maybe a month or so ago about Not responding to something because it were turning comments off of your.

41:01

Oh, it was the MacArthur interview You said you turned the comments off because it would be a test of your sanctification Right This the this situation with Tom and Jennifer has it has been that for me because you know here you have the situation that where they have been abused and and lied to and they have been disparaged and and their situation has been weaponized and Against them because Tom is a outspoken truth teller of not just the truth of scripture but allowing that framework to influence how we operate from an ecclesiological standpoint and And the people who love their sin and the people's whose people whose father is the devil hate that And so all they're trying to do is attack these these dear saints and and to tear them down and and and to rob

41:57

Christ of The glory and the hope and the redemptive power and of the gospel in and through their marriage

42:05

Tom and Jennifer have never hidden Any of these facts from their church or in their ministry, right?

42:11

So The the evangelical social justice folks

42:17

They operate in the exact same way that the the political leftist operate the only survivors that the social justice

42:27

Evangelicals care about are the ones that will help their agenda and fit their narrative.

42:33

Yeah. Yep Quick I mean, they'll throw them away just as quick.

42:39

Oh, mm -hmm. Yeah, so, you know Here's Tom and Jennifer buck and by their own admission, you know in the first year or two of their marriage

42:50

Tom had a problem with his temper and So, you know, of course by God's grace they're in a completely different place now

42:59

Their marriage is wonderful and growing and adorns the gospel in a beautiful way. Yes.

43:04

Yes So so Jennifer wrote this thing as a testimony to God's redemptive and restorative grace in their marriage as a testimony to him and these these social just social justice evangelicals like Karen swallow prior and all of those around her and David Bumgarner, which

43:26

I see that comment by Cody Robbins. I would be Yeah, Cody says well

43:33

Bums Garner is gay I was one of I was the one that brought that to attempt to attention and it's only been

43:42

Collaborated he's full -blown woke. So if you I guess if you have Cody, you know how to get ahold of me

43:47

So and if you have stuff, I think Justin would probably be interested Yeah, yeah for yeah, that's all

43:57

I'll say about that right now, but okay Yeah, the so it's the social justice evangelicals the woke folks in the evangelical camp

44:06

They operate the same way BLM operates black lives matter just as the only black lives that black lives matter care about or Are the the ones that happen to be shot by white cops?

44:19

Those few those are the only ones they care about they don't care about all of the tens of thousands that are killed every year

44:28

They don't care about that Babies who are being aborted at a rate like what three times out of whites.

44:35

They don't care about those black lives They only care about the black lives that fit their narrative and help their agenda

44:41

Same thing with the social justice evangelicals. They only care about the survivors that that Help their

44:50

Agenda fit their narrative, but someone like Jennifer Buck. No, they don't care about her.

44:55

They use her. Yeah, that's right Justin I gotta disagree with you that black lives matter

45:01

Does not care about black people shot by white cops They don't care about they only care about themselves getting their million -dollar homes and everything

45:10

They only care about those that support their agenda. They will use the black person who gets shot by a white cop

45:16

They'll use them. They don't care about him. There's a big difference there. We I'm bringing Chris in.

45:22

Mr Hunt holds himself from voice of reason radio Let me let me bring up this comment from our friend

45:28

Kofi Buntu from deep dive discipleship Because this is I wanted to get to this and you you actually got there before I got a chance to bring this up Justin but he says the the whole buck situation is disgusting the worldliness of the

45:41

SPC under the echelon was Slash is in full effect and he what he's addressing is what

45:47

I wanted to bring up is the why this is coming out right now Right. There's a there's a convention coming up and there's a whole bunch of conservative

45:57

SPC that have been trying to basically keep the SPC from going woke and They are in they're being attacked.

46:05

We saw this with with stone and claims about him It's there this is just they're looking for anything anything that will work to to hurt any conservative like Tom Buck or Tom Askell that to try to prevent them from Stopping their woke agenda

46:25

Okay, this is what this is really about It is it is a way of is slandering and defaming a person because he's not

46:33

Supporting the agenda that they want for the SPC Okay, so Chris you're you did a lot of work on this

46:42

You know, and and I first off let me just say thank you for all the the effort you got in there

46:48

Because I know Tom personally, I know that I started getting messages from people saying hey, what's up with with Tom Buck and and this abuse situation

46:56

I'm like what? I saw the statement put out by his his church. I Guess Chris, I I posted it and didn't look at any comments afterwards because I Was just gonna

47:11

I was gonna start blocking people as a first reaction But I cuz I said he's this is a personal friend and you know

47:16

So it's it's something where I you know When people sit there and say someone is doing something when they don't know the person

47:23

Personally, and then you have people that know him personally, you know, but Chris you did a lot of work on this

47:28

Maybe you could give us your thoughts. Give us a give us a summary of your two and a half hour episode

47:35

Yeah No, we we weren't striving to to be a boy to to be just thinking we weren't really trying to go for that size

47:42

Yeah, just thinking didn't try to do that either when they started out. They just did The primary reason we did that episode was when the article dropped by Baptist News Global, which by the way is nothing but another tabloid rag it is it is

48:01

Um Janet Mefford put showed another article that they put out today and it's a total

48:07

Slam against Elon Musk and the potential for all the horrible horrible horrible evil things that will happen if free speech actually happens

48:14

And it's they are as they are woke. They are pro -gay

48:20

They are every leftist thing agenda you can find will be promoted on their on their site So this is the quality of what you're getting from Black Baptist News Global.

48:29

So not not shocking but the problem is is when that article dropped it it was being shared by a lot of people and I What I saw in it you guys

48:39

I was listening on my on my way home What you said about Julie Royce is exactly what's reflected in David Bumgarner's article, which is factual information

48:50

Organized in such a way as to lead you the reader to a predetermined conclusion Yeah, and and that's the problem is, you know, and he got exactly the responses he wanted and I and I say this on the

49:00

Show, you know, he got the responses he wanted because number one he blocked three -quarters of Twitter Anybody that could potentially disagree with him was blocked before the article dropped.

49:08

None of us even knew this We found out when we went to go to his Twitter page. We're all blocked but the people the people that he did have access or was allowing were those who absolutely

49:21

Echoed the sentiments Tom's Bucks an abuser Tom Buck Therefore is on to disqualify for ministry the you know, the

49:27

SBC is ripe with abuse blah blah blah And that's what he was retweeting and he was putting out the the comments

49:34

Should a person who has a history of any kind of abuse be allowed in ministry didn't you know, etc?

49:39

So there was a predetermined goal in the mind of David David Bumgarner and you can see that from the direction he went from the moment the article dropped and And even before because of his actions and so People don't realize that when you participate in something like this when you automatically jump to the predetermined conclusion

49:59

You were just a pawn in a chess game You were being used in a specific way and you got exact you were used exactly the way they wanted you to be used

50:07

And so the reason we spent so much time on the article Was so that people understood that you can write an article you can claim

50:14

I was just reporting the facts like Julie Roy's does and you can lead your readers in a predetermined direction

50:21

And that's exactly what David Bumgarner did he? Yeah, Cody Robbins. He will block anyone who raises questions.

50:27

You know, it's funny The the I have three Twitter accounts. I I don't hide this mine the the

50:34

Theo bros account and Voice reason radio and I and I'll tell you right now. I don't hide them because my name's on all three

50:42

It took him like three four days of me harassing him on the Theo bros account before he finally blocked it

50:48

I he was slow, but it was very interesting that Anybody who is or let me get back to what

50:54

I'm saying is that he organized those in a specific way And so what he did and what we try to do on the show is show you step -by -step

51:02

What he was doing what things he left out what things he chose not to include it was information

51:07

He knew because he had access to the rough draft He says things like you know the the the rough draft and the final draft the g3 draft are

51:18

Substantially different in content length detail Okay, you have access to the rough draft.

51:24

What is the date of the differences? He does not say The reason he does not say is what we learned from the

51:30

FBC elder statement release what Tom and Jennifer State on their video and What has been confirmed by others that it basically has information about Tom and Jennifer's lives before they met one another that had no need to be released in that statement or in that final draft and it had nothing to do with them at the the the issues between them in the first five years of marriage and other things that were coinciding with the issues of during their marriage things like Jennifer lost a lot of weight because She was partially stressed from the marriage, but also because Tom was on a specific diet.

52:09

They had very little money So she was eating what he ate and was losing weight. So it's details like that So yes substantially different because it was information that in the conclusion isn't necessary to have an article and it but it makes

52:24

No difference as to what is being described in the first five years of marriage When you tell someone without explaining any of the differentiating those differences

52:34

Oh, well, the rough draft and the final draft are substantially different. What are you telling them?

52:40

You're leading them to a specific conclusion that there must be worse information and you can see that in the way people respond to it

52:48

Everybody who has responded negatively to to Tom Buck online is saying a variation of that They are saying he's a terrible person

52:57

He was a physical abuser that there things were obviously worse because the rough draft was different and you how do you know you you?

53:03

know you they're trying to hide it from you, etc and Baptist News Global is doing absolutely nothing,

53:11

I The day I read that article to the day I did my notes and the day that we recorded that article did not change one bit nothing substantial change in that article

53:22

So they knew from that moment and the FBC elder statement was released the video statement by Tom and Jennifer was released every one of those things telling us what it was and They have still not changed that article.

53:36

Not one not one Amendment has been made to that article to say anything else. So when you make statements like this and you organize it in such a way

53:46

You are leading people to a predetermined conclusion Now the reason that that's all important and it goes back to what you were saying just a minute ago is

53:56

When all this went down when you look at its servants and heralds Website and if you go to our podcast, we put it in the link.

54:03

They have a timeline of events 2018 they sought out the the assistance of Karen swallow prior to see about editing the article for publication 2022 fast -forward

54:17

Somehow between 2018 and 2022 that article has now made its way into other people's hands and we have only just learned it

54:25

It's been almost a month. We have only just learned that finally Karen swallow prior admits. She has handed it off to other people

54:33

Ostensibly and this is this is giving her benefit the doubt which I know she may not deserve She's saying well,

54:39

I thought I had permission so I could help him get it published. Now. I'm not saying I buy that I'm just saying showing grace and trying to Be as magnanimous as possible even if that's the case

54:51

Several years later. It ends up in other people's hands and what ends up happening is somebody following this this

54:59

Discussion with Willie Rice between Tom and Willie Rice about the deacon who had a sexual abuse past and probably shouldn't have been a deacon somebody after here talking to willing rice

55:09

The wheels start turning and somebody starts looking to hand that article off to a news outlet

55:15

And that information has been given to Tom Buck He goes to Karen swallow prior his wife goes to Karen swallow.

55:22

She will not say anything She we learned that somebody is talking to the provost of SC BTS to say can you verify this?

55:31

Is it a legit rough draft? Is this really hers? He goes to Karen swallow prior Why would he go to her if he didn't know she could verify it?

55:39

So people within SC BTS to have this knowledge. Nobody is saying anything Tom and Jennifer are going everywhere.

55:47

They can go to get answers. Nobody's helping them and what people do know are unwilling to say the truth ostensibly because they're afraid of Tom bullying them and They lie and cover things up the reason that's important is because after a in -house discussion from one pastor to another about a man in Another church who's now a deacon who probably should not be in that position because of the potential

56:14

For reoffense for sin for danger to other people in house between two pastors

56:21

He says you might not want to have him there. There's a concern here Willie Rice goes to people within the

56:29

SE or SPC Leadership I guess you would say that he respects

56:37

He comes back from Tom says. Thank you. And then within days Willie Rice is Declaring that people are trying to set him up and push him out of the race for SBC from his pulpit from his church from his home

56:49

Pope. Yes, exactly. He's saying this and Within a short time of that G3 you get three three article is dropped and immediately

56:58

BNG drops its article you have What appears to be on for all intents and purposes of P appears to be an organized effort?

57:08

with leadership within the SPC To go after a local church pastor and in the process steamroll over his wife hmm that is why this is a concern because you have with some people who are so concerned about the potential of The potential to lose power

57:31

This is my this is my interpretation of events. I don't have special knowledge. I'm looking at it for the same anybody else's

57:39

But I think I can draw some conclusions and be probably pretty close to the mark You have individuals who are so concerned with Tom Askelby running as for SPC president his base of followers and involve people like Tom Buck if you can shut

57:58

Tom Buck down by trying to quote -unquote blackmail him Into silence because that was the threat if you say anything about Willie Rice If you release the zoom video recordings that you have this rough -draft article goes public that was a threat to him

58:12

You have people within the SPC who are willing to destroy a local church pastor in order to preserve their power

58:21

That is terrifying That is terrifying that you have individuals who are willing to do this the reason we went after the

58:32

I See drew von Nita and YouTube it says that sounds like I've found a ground some detectives in my life

58:37

I was gonna bring that up later, but there it is What is your profession,

58:46

I mean could could you have some background in 23 year plus years in law enforcement

58:54

Maybe that rubbed off. Yeah, they just and that's one of the things I I'm not gonna I'm not

58:59

I'm not gonna do name -dropping I've had some conversations with some people who have listened to the podcast and one of the persons who talked to me said it you used

59:06

You've leveraged that experience on report writing. I hope so I hope so The reason we went after this article was because I knew everybody else was gonna be talking about what was happening to Tom and Jennifer But I wanted to get to why this how this even happened

59:22

It shouldn't have come to this head But it happened because you had in individuals who are willing to find the most unscrupulous individuals they could find and hand it off to them to do damage and I'm telling you

59:36

David Baumgartner is as is as Weasley as they come when he sits behind safely behind Twitter Blocks everybody and then says

59:45

I'm just reporting the facts. I don't know why you're upset and his editor doing the same exact thing

59:50

Oh, we won't take this down If just because you don't like it has nothing to do with whether you don't like it

59:55

You purposely framed your article to lead people to a specific direction You know,

01:00:01

I mean and Andrew if if I wanted to be smart your character There's I'm sure you and I have known each other for a long time

01:00:09

I could take factual issues that have happened in your life and I could I could write him out in such a way

01:00:16

I never have to say Andrew's a terrible person I just have to organize them in such a way and then draw in other information like David Baumgartner does like he brings in statistics about The number of people who are physically abused in in marriage and then he brings in secular information about how people can feel trapped in a marriage because of things like Religious and outdated gender models and stuff and therefore could be in greater danger

01:00:47

Now that had nothing to do with the article, but he brought it in why Steering the narrative steering the narrative because Jennifer says in her article that when she talks to Dottie, which is her the the older woman who was helping her during this time and make and Jennifer makes a point of saying she asks her lots of questions.

01:01:08

So she makes sure she says make sure there's no physical abuse So what is then she then say?

01:01:14

Divorce was never discussed as an option. Why because we're talking about what Chris said earlier, you know

01:01:20

We're the one talking about church. This is when we're talking about reconciliation. That's what was going on here She was talking about how to how to reconcile this marriage how to solve this issue of sin in Tom's behavior and how to help

01:01:32

Jennifer who was going through a lot of difficulty in this and Reason divorce was never mentioned was because divorce wasn't the issue

01:01:41

There wasn't something to lead that naturally straight to divorce But David brings that a little bit of information in and then ties

01:01:50

Jennifer's comment to it For one reason it makes it look like Tom is the type of person who will say you can't divorce your your spouse

01:01:59

Even if they're physically abusing you He didn't have to say that that's what he believes

01:02:04

Tom believes He just had to frame it and it's as you said steers the narrative and this was used to attack a pastor a local church pastor

01:02:15

Why because he's vocal because he's outspoken because he doesn't believe in the direction that those who are currently steering this ship

01:02:23

He doesn't agree in the direction. It's going because he cares about the glory of Christ and the purity of his church exactly period

01:02:30

And and and a couple things I want to share here Chris and and brother if you get in and ladies and gentlemen

01:02:35

If you haven't heard that podcast you need to listen to it. It's phenomenal so but At what point at what point do we do we do we do we ask this question?

01:02:48

When do we stop calling people like Karen Pryor a sister in Christ? When do we stop calling the upper echelon of the

01:02:58

SBC who have propagated this and many other lies Brethren in Christ When do we stop doing that and start going they need the gospel?

01:03:10

Because you know Slander at its root is demonic. There's a wonderful article written by Josh Bice Who dr.

01:03:20

Josh Bice is the pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church and president of g3 ministries entitled the fruit and root of slander and He's very very clear in there slander is

01:03:32

Deceptive destructive and devious and he quotes Proverbs 6 check this out.

01:03:38

There are six things Which Yahweh? hates Hates Even seven which are an abomination to him haughty eyes a lying tongue and hands that shed innocent blood a heart that devises wicked thoughts feet that hasten to run to evil a

01:04:02

False witness who breathes out lies and one who spreads strife among brothers

01:04:10

Okay, that's Proverbs 6 James chapter 3 Starting in verse 13 who among you is wise and understanding let him show by his good conduct his works in the gentleness gentleness of wisdom but if you have bitter jealousy and Selfish ambition in your heart do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth

01:04:33

This wisdom is not coming down from above but is earthly natural demonic

01:04:38

For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist there is disorder in every evil practice

01:04:45

But the wisdom from above is first pure then peaceable considerate submissive full of mercy and good fruits without doubting without hypocrisy and the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace

01:05:01

Scriptures clear listening to or or participating in this kind of slander is demonic

01:05:10

You are showing the fruits again. I go back to John 8 of the father of lies now.

01:05:18

I Love the way Tom and Jennifer have handled this they're trying they're trying to direct

01:05:24

This away from them and back to the restorative hope and of the gospel and the glory of Christ Because what these people are doing they are robbing

01:05:35

Christ of his glory and they are worshipping idols These golden calves that they have built and erected and tried to give the name

01:05:43

Yahweh thinking that they've they've uncovered This this huge story But this speaks to a couple of different things number one

01:05:51

Tom and Jennifer Especially Tom have shown that he's above reproach

01:05:57

Is everyone perfect? Absolutely not. Does everyone struggle with something? Yes, they do but the the point here was to highlight the the truth of the of the gospel and The glory of Christ through his work

01:06:11

And all these people want to do is distract from that And so Tom and Jennifer have said no

01:06:17

We're that they've been open about this their entire marriage and and they've taken just like dr

01:06:23

MacArthur has they've taken all of the necessary steps to show

01:06:28

To show that they are above reproach and that they they report to Christ That's who keeps them accountable and then they they act accordingly

01:06:38

So but here's something I have this to share and then I'll be quiet Check this out. Psalm 119.

01:06:44

Okay, and and and this is where someone at Kofi mentioned or other people have mentioned, too

01:06:50

They've said why don't why don't Why don't people respond to this like with what dr.

01:06:55

MacArthur is? Okay, I'm gonna read this This this two verses out of Psalm 119. I'm gonna share a

01:07:01

Charles Spurgeon quote Because because I think this is important and crucial What what

01:07:08

Julie Royce is trying to do with dr. MacArthur is trying to just just tear him down, okay

01:07:14

Psalm 119 verse 23, even though princes sit and talk against me your slave

01:07:20

Muses on your statutes Your testimonies are my delight. They are my counselors

01:07:28

Now and in response to that this is what the Prince of Preachers Charles had in her Spurgeon had to say He said this quote the best way to deal with slander is to pray about it

01:07:37

God will either remove it or remove the sting from it our own attempts at clearing ourselves are usually

01:07:44

Failures be quiet and let your advocate capital a plead your cause

01:07:50

Very close quote and let me tell you, you know for people who think that Well, he should respond these folks should respond, you know, one of the hardest things to do is

01:08:02

Say nothing when you have people who are slandering you me. It is not an easy thing to do you know and you know, but to keep in mind and you know when you hear something negative about somebody and I know

01:08:16

I'm gonna We may end up taking a break from this come back to it because there's someone backstage He's gonna have to go and he's got a question, but you know, just keep in mind something

01:08:25

Okay It's very easy to respond in the flesh. It's very easy to defend yourself

01:08:30

Okay, and when you hear people making accusations just keep something in mind pride wants to defend self pride wants to lash out at the person who's saying something as If it's true, but especially if it's false

01:08:47

Okay, I mean pride wants to defend self when when someone criticizes us

01:08:54

But when they say something that's wrong and and they know it's wrong We've more want to you know, the pride even more wants to defend self

01:09:04

Humility is the one who says nothing. So one of the things that you know, I've often held to and it you know

01:09:10

When I see two two groups or two people having a disagreement there, you know, where it's in publicly like some of these things.

01:09:18

I Usually will believe the one who's who's silent Because that's showing the humility, okay, so let me bring let me bring

01:09:27

David in he's got a question for us There's something that you had said Chris earlier now just so you know

01:09:33

David's David is not a believer Grew up in a Christian home because I know you guys don't know he David's been a regular listener here.

01:09:39

So David go ahead with your your question. I know you got to get going But yeah, yeah sure.

01:09:45

So I'm thank you for having me back on Andrew it's good to see you again, and I'm glad you're doing better and Good to see you.

01:09:52

It's a pleasure to meet you This is a question in relationship to one of the verses you brought up earlier

01:09:58

That's the devil was a murderer from the beginning and he's the father of life the question that I have is

01:10:04

From the beginning of what's from the beginning of time from the beginning that he was created From the moment he tempted

01:10:11

Adam and Eve or the other angels I'm just kind of curious at what is actually meant by it from the beginning

01:10:17

Chris I think you you hadn't made the comment. So yeah. Yeah. No, um, so What John is or what what is is being referred to there is from the beginning of the fall when when when

01:10:30

Satan fell When he was cast when he was cast out of heaven is is what

01:10:35

Christ what most? What most believe Christ was referring to there is is from from the beginning of that because I mean

01:10:43

Satan is a created Being a fallen angel So that that's what is being referred to right there.

01:10:50

Okay, so it's the beginning of the fall Well beginning of the wind when Satan fell. Yeah, right and and obviously that would be seen when it logically have to fall before Adam and Eve Because if he was not fallen at that time

01:11:04

Then he would not have the desire to try and get them to fall and would be much right, correct

01:11:11

All right, yeah, thank you, I mean that's something that was always kind of confusing All right, well

01:11:18

David I know you're gonna come back you plan on least coming back when we have a Nathaniel Jetson Jetson in on was that that's

01:11:26

June 2nd. So I know you have some questions. Oh, yeah I have a lot of questions. I want to ask him

01:11:33

And I know I have some questions about his latest book traced as well I definitely have a lot of questions.

01:11:39

I would like to ask him this right here that yes. Yes that one I will be doing him tomorrow on so You'll be interviewing him tomorrow.

01:11:47

I will but that it won't air for a while. Okay, so When when

01:11:52

June 2nd, it'll be live and yeah The podcast on is my rap report podcast that'll come out

01:12:00

June 1st and that that interview and that that will lead into the Thursday night, so if you listen to that that may

01:12:07

Hold gold that we're doing it that way so people can listen to the rap report Get an idea of the book and then have lots of questions for him on I have a lot of questions that I want to ask him especially about ding at all

01:12:20

I really wanted to ask him about a lot of stuff And how we used it so all right, um good anyway, yeah and and David I should

01:12:29

I should say, you know, Back backstage folks, uh, David, I've been chatting and I didn't realize I I neglected to let everybody know when

01:12:36

I talked about my health That my blood pressure is under control things are doing very well You know, he's like,

01:12:42

I hope you're doing better. I'm like, yes, I should I guess I should have mentioned that Thought I did. All right

01:12:48

Good. See you. All right. Bye now All right. So let me let me put some comments up here that we had because I think really when we look at These situations both tom buck

01:13:00

John mcArthur we're seeing the similarities, but I think the similarities are also in the why Okay I would argue tom buck john mcArthur

01:13:11

What is it that they kind of have in common that created a lot of angst with some people

01:13:17

Uh, it was a certain statement on social justice in the gospel I mean john mcArthur had people

01:13:25

He called friends that no longer are such over this the gospel

01:13:32

That or sorry the social justice stuff um so, you know what you end up seeing is

01:13:40

This is just something that Is really become and I think mcArthur was right when he realized it.

01:13:47

It's it's a dividing line Yeah, you know justin when when? You when that first statement was first being done

01:13:54

I I remember the conversations, you know, you and I had and you know before you know in the letter that was originally written to to john where we all signed asking him to get involved with it and and the discussion that Back then but before this was this is one of the few times

01:14:10

I said this before on this program This is one of the few times the church has been ahead of the game you know

01:14:17

Trump made it on his way out. He made crt known and the dangers of it But it really

01:14:24

I I remember the conversation you and I had justin where where you had said this issue of social justice

01:14:31

Will be the greatest dividing line On gospel issues that the church is going to face probably for the next generation

01:14:42

And as we're seeing you are a hundred percent right and mcArthur has has echoed that Yeah, yeah, absolutely because You know obviously as concerned as I am with word faith and charismatic issues and that remains a huge issue internationally, especially

01:15:01

But as as much as I care about that the social justice movement is different because uh with charismatic word faith

01:15:11

There's never been any affinity between that and the leftist political secular people

01:15:19

But with social justice There is that nexus there they the the leftist secular people

01:15:28

Uh are using this to connect to people in our camp And that simply was not the case and is not the case really with with word faith charismatic stuff at least not directly

01:15:38

But with social justice there is that nexus there is that connection and uh, the social justice movement has blown through the evangelical world and even our reform tighter

01:15:50

Soteriologically reform circles has blown through it like a f5 tornado and has caused all kinds

01:15:57

Of damage and havoc and destruction and it's done exactly what it was designed to do Yeah You know

01:16:04

It's been enormously successful. They put some comments up that we had alexander wright says this

01:16:10

It's no different than the smear campaigns used before major presidential elections

01:16:16

It's sad because as believers in christ We're supposed to not look like the world

01:16:24

He's right, you know, cody robbins has said this bottom line It was about discrediting him

01:16:31

This is a friend of tom bach regarding the conservative movement or possible sbc presidency

01:16:38

Just like they did to mike stone. He's correct and then drew Your co -host chris on on on uh,

01:16:46

I was gonna say voice of reason on a matter of theology podcast It says that's what happens if you have two chris h's and But one goes by captain america and the the other doesn't

01:16:58

Wondering when that was going to come up Yourself over you threw yourself to the right.

01:17:04

I saw you have a marvel chair. Look at that You know

01:17:10

Drew drew says this and so i'll throw this question out to you guys Because this is really some foresight on his part.

01:17:16

I think how long until the sbc Goes back to supporting abortion. They already do.

01:17:23

Yeah It in a sense they already do I mean, yep You don't hear you don't hear folks in the sbc talk about abortion nearly as much as you do

01:17:35

Injustice racial issues all that stuff. Uh, so it's you know on paper, they would still say that they're pro -life on paper, but you can kind of get a pretty good idea of Where someone's heart is how much they care about something?

01:17:50

um By how much they do or do not talk about it Yeah, right

01:17:56

Well, as I recall during the at this last convention wasn't there a bit of a kerfuffle about trying resolution about it?

01:18:03

I mean, they weren't wanting to let it come to the table at all. Yeah, yeah brett maggot. Yep, and I think The way and I if I remember correctly, was it was it bill askew that then?

01:18:13

Resolution because yeah, they'll ask all dusty deavers and brett maggot. Yeah, the way that they worded that It like when

01:18:20

I was listening to that I went oh this is ingenious This is brilliant because it was there was no way

01:18:27

Because this is what the what the spc what we've watched them do is they word these things when they put it to the floor

01:18:32

So that the people who don't know what social justice is don't know all this woke stuff. They don't know the issues they're just a pastor who's busy just Trying to feed his sheep and he he doesn't have time to to research all this stuff and be in tune with all this

01:18:46

He's not having the time to listen to podcasts and news and he's just trying to study the word of god and deliver it to his his people and those people

01:18:54

Are people that the the leadership of the spc is is counting on them being ignorant

01:19:00

And wording things in such a way. Well, don't we want to support justice? and and that You know spc pastors going.

01:19:07

Well, yeah, we do well, I thought the way that they thought that was Brilliant because there was it was like there's no way they could say

01:19:13

No to it and they hated it, but they had to try to make some modifications Well, andrew, can I can I address something you said there?

01:19:20

Um, just because I i've i've heard i've heard some some pastors say this before And I just want to take a second to address this if you

01:19:28

Aren't aware of these issues then shame on you As a pastor, let me let me let me let me let me be clear

01:19:36

You're a shepherd What does a shepherd do a shepherd is responsible for feeding the flock feeding the sheep?

01:19:43

The shepherd is responsible for protecting the flock That means you need to keep your head on a swivel

01:19:50

That means you need to be aware. You need to you know you It's good and I and I and I applaud those out there who who have their their their their nose buried buried in In scripture and unpacking and and everything else, but if you're not aware of these issues, then you are not adequately adequately

01:20:09

Protecting your sheep ignorance is no longer an excuse in the day and age that we live in it's not

01:20:16

You have a responsibility to fulfill Your ministry, but here's here's the thing, you know, the the you have

01:20:28

The fact that you if you don't get you because you can't keep up with everything

01:20:34

I can't I know I can't but you know what I have people who do When when someone asks me some name that I don't know

01:20:41

I have people I can call when when there's an issue that comes up. I there's people I could call

01:20:46

But you know chris, I know you sorry chris huff You can't even say chris h yeah chris h we usually have two justins in here now we have two chris

01:20:59

You know So what you end up seeing is you you love the puritans?

01:21:05

Here's a thing with the puritans, you know when the puritans used to study to be a pastor This is this is what how this how the studies went.

01:21:12

They had to study Not just the scriptures They studied medicine science

01:21:19

Plants, I mean they studied everything every field They had to learn all of it. And so their first year was studying all these different backgrounds

01:21:26

So they had an understanding in all of it They had lots of different things they had to learn And it was really interesting one of the things that they would do is every the pastors when they studied would have debates right

01:21:39

They had to debate now when in freshman year your first year the debate was uh, chris huff

01:21:44

You're going to debate abortion. You're going to be for it. Uh, it's going to be in english chris hon holds. You're going to be against it

01:21:51

Okay year two Uh, you know chris huff you're going to be debating abortion against chris hon holds

01:21:59

You don't know which side you're on so you got to study both, okay, right by the by the last final year, it's

01:22:07

Chris huff you're going to be debating chris hon holds You don't know what the topic is. You don't know if you're for against it

01:22:14

You don't even know what language it is You get there and you find out okay chris huff. You are going to be for abortion. You're going to be arguing in greek

01:22:21

You know chris hon holds you're going to be arguing in latin Against I mean right so think about what's involved in that But now we look now take take an understanding of that and then step back and look at the puritans and what we have

01:22:38

From them and what they've written right that explain Why they were so thorough in their responses to things even within culture and seeing the ramifications

01:22:50

That it has down the line. Yes Yeah, look at what I go back to what what dr

01:22:56

MacArthur said in the interview that justin did with him at the shepherds conference. He said, you know, uh, Justin asked what what was the greatest threat to the evangelical church today and macarthur said and I quote an abysmal lack of discernment

01:23:09

Biblical discernment cultural discernment social discernment. He didn't say that i'm i'm expounding a little bit here but But but but but that's the truth

01:23:17

And it's not that you need to know everything and be an expert on everything But you know, I mean drew drew vanita, um put a comment in Uh on youtube and he said oh you mean all that quote -unquote black and white stupid stuff

01:23:30

There was a pastor that said that I wish wish all this black and white Stupid stuff would just go away.

01:23:35

That's how he said it too. And it's it's That that's not it. Like it was with with stuff like this.

01:23:43

That is so wretchedly antithetical to scripture and so wretchedly

01:23:48

Opposed to christ and the gospel You can't afford to keep your head buried in the sand

01:23:55

You have to understand that the enemy is coming after you your church your kids your family

01:24:02

And so pastors, especially with their role you carry a stick for a reason

01:24:08

More than that you carry a sword that addresses all of it so get off your tush as we tell my son and And and and get to learning go back to school

01:24:20

Learn the terms learn Learn what critical race theory how critical race theory is steeped in marxism and where it came came from And how it came into this country and what their goals are

01:24:31

You know and and guess what you have people that have done the work for you and all you have to do is hit play just thinking dot me

01:24:40

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I mean look and chris Hunnels just to tie that in is look there.

01:24:47

I understand That there are pastors bi -vocational pastors that are they got their family.

01:24:52

They got their church. They got the job They got to do they're trying to hold down two full -time jobs while raising kids.

01:24:58

It is not easy. I'm not saying it is But what I am saying is there are plenty of people out there

01:25:06

That know where you can get good information if you're not sure contact us

01:25:11

Info at striving for attorney .org Give us the topic of information. Look i'm dealing with this with someone

01:25:17

They just started learning about crt and and and they're like, okay, what resources should

01:25:22

I learn? We got people, you know, okay start listening to just thinking here's some episodes. We did here's some books you can read

01:25:29

That's what we've done chris honolds Just to kind of attack on what you guys are saying

01:25:36

Part of the issue that we're we're seeing when you have a pastor says, oh, I wish all this stupid stuff would go away What there's a driving mentality behind that and it's well, we need to get away from All this secular worldly stuff that doesn't matter

01:25:49

We need to be just people bible study people and and we need to be spiritual and that's where our focus is

01:25:55

Look, I I'm entirely in favor of the idea of ensuring that your flock is thoroughly equipped in the word of god

01:26:03

That is their primary source of study. How can I tell if something is not?

01:26:09

In line with god's will by knowing the word of god so absolutely 100 support that so Anything we're saying here is not to say that somehow this is the top tier priority that you need to teach

01:26:21

But to the other side of this if you shelve it if you say well, that's not you know

01:26:27

Biblical spiritual stuff and I and I need to focus just on this You are neglecting to equip your people with what you should know is a direct threat in their lives

01:26:36

You know, justin made the comment that there is a nexus within the social justice, uh crt in all these other areas

01:26:45

With the reformed community why because they're manipulating and co -opting biblical language

01:26:52

So when you tell someone well, don't you love your neighbor? Yeah, well, then you should care about justice.

01:26:58

Don't you care about justice? So if you are not equipping them number one biblically to understand what that means

01:27:05

But number two how to respond to it You have done them a disservice because we have to live in this world.

01:27:12

We have to be part of it We have to interact with it. We have to be able to provide biblical answers

01:27:17

And I what I fear is there are so many people that are just terrified of the idea of of getting him too involved

01:27:25

Politically too involved. Um in the culture war so to speak and I understand that don't don't misunderstand me.

01:27:31

I do get why They're so afraid of it that they just don't do anything and they would rather Just not get into that conversation

01:27:39

And unfortunately, you're doing real damage I believe one of the things that I I was so grateful for in my church

01:27:46

I I attend community bible church in rena, nevada I have three wonderful pastors who are just dedicated to the exposition of scripture

01:27:54

I am so blessed by everything they teach they took added time and they set aside

01:28:00

Every other wednesday for a period of seven teachings and went down a bit various areas of these social justice things and Told people here's where it's going to be.

01:28:12

Here's what it's going to be. We're going to get books We're going to get them wholesale so you can buy them at a certain, you know, you know at a reduced price

01:28:17

We're going to you know record these so you guys can listen to them later and they took the time

01:28:24

To go through each of these things now Does that make everybody in my church suddenly a culture warrior

01:28:31

No, what it does is it makes them better informed and better equipped to Interact with the various people in their lives so that when someone starts to bring this issue up they go.

01:28:44

I know what that is I know the biblical answer and that was one of the other things they did. They didn't just say Crt bad they said crt.

01:28:51

Here's what it is. Here's why it's bad. Here's the biblical response And yeah just by doing those things you don't have to go to that extent

01:29:00

But you should be at least making yourself aware And when these issues come up you can address them

01:29:07

As you're teaching through scripture and you talk about the issue of justice You can bring that into your teaching as well and saying this is what biblical justice is by the way

01:29:15

This is what the world tries to say is justice. This is these are simple things Okay, I say simple but I understand a lot of work involved

01:29:22

But these are ways that you can incorporate Teaching your congregation to be prepared

01:29:29

But what we shouldn't do is be spiritual ostriches sticking our head in the sand and pretending that we don't need to know about these things

01:29:36

I'm not yeah We're not advocating to go out and fight the culture war what we're saying is how do

01:29:43

I how do I equip my congregation? How do I equip the people in my church to understand what these threats are?

01:29:50

And how to respond to them biblically because there's going to come a time When we are a very small minority of people and the world has turned its back on us and is and persecution comes in full we may only be seeing the first tips of Persecution and by the way, if you are listening to this and you think the church isn't being persecuted

01:30:08

You and I need to have talk. Um but um But when it comes in full

01:30:14

You've equipped your people to stand To stand and say here I can do no other

01:30:21

I will stand on the word of god. I will not let you manipulate me or my family or my children

01:30:27

That's how important this is. This isn't about culture wars. This is about preventing the lies of the enemy

01:30:36

To being built into their daily walk And we are watching it happen in our churches right now you can't

01:30:45

Turn a blind eye to it anymore They don't let people tell you. Oh, you're getting too political funny

01:30:51

You think it's not political when you want you when you've got christians who say by the way The government do should do xyz and that's how we will have real justice and the church should support it

01:31:00

That's very political But when I say I don't want the government to do that. I want I want us as christians to do this according to justice

01:31:08

Oh, you're being political Stop being afraid of that You're being manipulated stop being afraid stand on the word of god stand uh stand up for the truth equip your people

01:31:18

To understand it and when they're standing they're not standing to change the culture They're standing because they love the lord and they love his word and they won't see his name blasphemed

01:31:26

You know I was saying to my bride earlier today that you know I remember back in the 80s reading an article that it laid out a plan for the

01:31:34

The homosexuals how they were going to gain prominence and You know what they said is actually happening that the church is supporting them the church is promoting let me

01:31:43

Justin, you just sent this to me. Let me uh, let me share this um

01:31:50

Because this really is telling This is from the gospel coalition An article they have on how

01:31:56

I discovered true masculinity and it says it's from gospel coalition This used to be what we thought of conservative.

01:32:03

It's more masculine to be attracted to men Obedient to god

01:32:10

Than attracted to women and disobedient to god Think about what it says

01:32:17

This this was an article that goes back to 2016 This was six years ago

01:32:26

So the social justice stuff has been around for a long time now, and it's it's really

01:32:33

Inexcusable for a pastor not to not be aware at least in general terms Of of what it is.

01:32:39

I mean all you have to do is watch fox news for an hour or so and you you see the Social justice stuff mentioned in the political realm.

01:32:46

Well, it's coming into the church and it's a worldly philosophy disguised as theology for christians for christian consumption and Yeah, that that thing

01:32:57

I mean put that if you can enter get that back up from the gospel coalition So And one of the things that there was let me get that back up the the thing that amazed me with it is

01:33:07

How how they say I mean they they have it there They're they're i'm having trouble opening it now um

01:33:17

Saying it doesn't exist anymore Your computer even hates it. Yeah And as as that's it should although it's

01:33:25

Just stunningly shockingly unbiblical thing to say Okay, it's more here's the here's the title of the article from the gospel coalition

01:33:36

It's more masculine To be attracted to men yet obedient to god.

01:33:42

Okay, stop You can't you can't do that You can't do that.

01:33:49

That's why i'm saying there's you know, you can have a A round square or a square circle that that's

01:33:57

That's a stupid thing to say you you can't but just But this is an article talking about true masculinity,

01:34:07

I mean so you you take this back to what chris huff was saying It's the redefinition of terms All right. So let me do this.

01:34:12

We got someone else backstage. Let me bring him in because he's coming in I'm gonna leave for just a minute so But because this guy's gonna it's gonna everything's gonna blow up now.

01:34:23

All right. Here's the the second half Of matter of theology. All right. I'll be right back I figured

01:34:31

I would come in and blow things up a bit That's just I mean, this is how chris and I put up anyway

01:34:38

It's true but I mean, I think that was the first thing that that I actually wrote down on my notebook here when he put that up was

01:34:46

You can't be attracted to men and be obedient to god it doesn't work. I mean

01:34:51

No, you can't there's no way and what that is is it's it's it's trying to go to the old old idea idea of I can be tempted but if I don't sin i'm not in sin.

01:35:01

I understand what they're getting at but here's the problem if I am attracted to men in other words a

01:35:09

Sexual attraction i'm thinking about that person in any sexually attractive way i've already stepped into sin

01:35:17

Right. It's it's like when christ says you looked with lust you're sinning So the idea of being attracted to men that that's the temptation, but they're not sinning

01:35:26

No You we've got to back this up. This is a condition of the heart And so when you when they say that they're trying to parse this really thin And they're trying to make it sound like that that attraction is not an issue.

01:35:38

Yes, it is an issue It is very much an issue. Yes, right. I mean That would be like, you know, i'm attracted to this woman.

01:35:46

That's not my wife, but it's not sin Well, yes, it is it may not go to the form of adultery, but it's sin

01:35:55

Exactly, and I just want to give a shout out right here to jason cave go dogs Uh, yeah national champs, come on, that's all

01:36:01

I gotta say right there sic em dogs gotta throw it in there Oh, bro, i'm so glad y 'all won

01:36:09

I really am i'm the other dog the other bulldog in the sec I miss it. Okay, but i'm glad y 'all won.

01:36:15

Oh boy. Here we go. It's been a long time Here's all the sports balls and we got we got the world series too, that's right

01:36:22

Ha ha But now I now from what I understand the the atlanta hawks are fighting for the uh, high school championship,

01:36:31

I believe because High school Who's For a little bit and what happens it's turned into espn.

01:36:43

That's all I know Obviously obviously, you know letting drew and I said it would blow everything up.

01:36:49

You know what drew wrong direction. Yeah Look right the issue is I really expected that maybe drew was going to put everyone to sleep and maybe he would talk about the need for my pillow, you know

01:37:01

Because you know, I figured you know, he might do that but I can't I can't would you like me to I will do this ad.

01:37:09

You know why because as soon as we get done here I am going to go to sleep on my my pillow that was gifted to me by my friend.

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The next thing I thought about was well, how am I going to drive home because it's going to be two o 'clock in the morning and then

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I thought focus on the my pillow Because it is going to be so comfortable once I get in bed and finally rest my head on my my pillow

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01:38:27

I don't understand how that works why I bought my wife one too Cody robin says my mother's day gift pillow for those who rest in the sovereignty of god

01:38:38

Oh i'm gonna have to use that line That's good. Oh, well listen now might be a good time for me to let folks know.

01:38:47

Um, a couple other things going on one is We're going to be trying to do an israel trip again um, and so this time it is because uh,

01:38:57

As we had all the chaos last year with nonsense in the year before Matt slick and I are putting this one together

01:39:04

Um, it is it if you get all the details that what we're doing is different than we originally planned

01:39:09

It's now 13 days instead of 10 um, it is 20 the website is 2023 israel tour .com

01:39:17

2023 israel tour .com And they're all the details are there.

01:39:22

It's an expensive trip But it's a once in a lifetime trip The thing with this is we are going to be able because we have an archaeologist going we're getting to some places that I guess

01:39:31

We need his credentials to go so, um, that'll be kind of neat We did that was one of the things we didn't have last time

01:39:38

And so I really want to encourage you guys if you if you want to check it out If you sign up now, like before the end of may you get a hundred dollars off Uh, and those that do

01:39:49

I believe if we get 45 people that fly there. It's another hundred dollars off So I want to encourage you to sign up quick.

01:39:55

It is filling up quickly. So I encourage you to go to 2023 Israel tour .com

01:40:01

And check that out. One other thing if there's anybody watching on twitter, that's right twitter. I am back on twitter um, even though Okay, so let me go see chris.

01:40:12

I was joking with you. Do you win a prize? Well, i'm at 832 followers I just I just started it with yesterday, but here's the thing

01:40:20

I already have someone contacting twitter trying to get my account deactivated It's been up for for a little over 24 hours before someone is someone tagged me on twitter

01:40:35

Saying that you know to try to get the account removed I mean 5 000 followers and I still haven't been had they try to kick me off.

01:40:42

What how did you manage this? You you got like six tweets that's it

01:40:49

No, you you just got suspended for mentioning hot sauce I don't even get that one.

01:40:56

But so I I do have a new twitter. So the the thing is Uh, so twitter straddle banned me years ago.

01:41:03

It was it was it was a Basically became a useless platform. And so when they removed trump,

01:41:08

I did I permanent I I deleted it So the reason this guy fled he's trying to say that i'm trying to get around Twitter's ban on me.

01:41:16

No, I deleted the account But I can't get it back okay, so they they somehow other people can get them back, but I somehow it's interesting because you know folks

01:41:28

Have you been following in the news where it said that like all these conservatives got have gotten suddenly gotten more twitter followers?

01:41:34

Okay, I can verify this because of this when I deactivated the account I had 23 or 2400 followers

01:41:43

Because the app that I use was still connected when I came when

01:41:48

I Created a new account and I have the handle there. It's now andrew underscore sfe

01:41:55

Because I can't use andrew rapaport anymore And andrew rapaport is so long that I can't add anything else to it but uh

01:42:04

Basically, here's what they ended up doing. I all of a sudden noticed that it said I had I think it was 5 300 followers

01:42:12

So so literally me not using the account me having a non -active account

01:42:18

I doubled my followers I actually I actually watched something on that and uh, there was some speculation and I I think

01:42:26

I tend to agree with it When the announcement that elon Was that was purchasing the business came in.

01:42:33

Um, I think it's tim cast on twitter Had gone through some some of the various Aspects of it and why he didn't believe that it was just this influx of new, uh followers coming in because elon was buying he thinks that there was a

01:42:48

That line of code that you know put the algorithm in that would basically force bans On anybody say for example who mentioned the hunter biden laptop

01:42:57

And they as soon as the announcement went in he thinks that they pulled that and suddenly because people did we're reporting

01:43:02

Suddenly their accounts were reactivated with no with with no explanation And the other interesting thing is for and i've heard this over and over again, and i've even seen it myself

01:43:13

People have been forcefully disconnected. They're like hey, I was following so -and -so Yeah, I was following you too

01:43:18

And then I think what happened is whatever those lines of code were they took them out and people

01:43:23

People who once followed each other but were disconnected have been put back together and people who had banned accounts

01:43:28

Came back online and the whole thing i'm saying is I think that I proved that theory out. Yeah, I think you're right

01:43:34

I think you're right. So there was a time Justin, I don't know if you remember this I had I remember

01:43:39

After a conference I spoke at and there was a point where I actually hit 20 000 followers on on twitter

01:43:46

And the next day they were like all gone within within 48 hours They were all gone. I could not get over like 2500 followers on twitter anytime

01:43:54

I did within days They were all gone and I had people say They hey,

01:44:00

I I thought I was following you so the I think that that's exactly what happened because The the fact that mine was still tied to that and how did it more than double?

01:44:11

You know, it's just it's kind of interesting so so if you're on twitter first off if you're watching us on twitter

01:44:17

We put this on twitter. So we're back on there Uh, but if you want if you're on twitter, just follow me andrew at andrew underscore sfe is my new twitter handle

01:44:27

Um, I told I told and so so, you know for for chris and drew I I know you'll you'll want to help out with this

01:44:34

I said that if I get to a thousand followers, that means that chris honholds wins another contest and i'm going to send him a book and so um

01:44:42

Because of you I still have to deal with this So i'm looking because of this

01:44:47

I still get hounded about this. Yeah So justin this one's for you melissa says I wish justin peters would go back to twitter, but I completely understand why he left

01:44:56

So so here's that's very kind melissa. Thank you. I appreciate that very kind So chris, this is the book that you're going to win if I get to a thousand

01:45:05

Right here sharing the good news with mormons All right So how can you get it for?

01:45:12

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01:45:18

So go to striving fraternity .org go to the store Get sharing the good news with mormons and get it for 35 off with the with the promo code or coupon code lds

01:45:27

Sorry that it was lds is the promo code for latter -day saints and so We're we're basically we have a number of them in stock

01:45:35

We're looking to get rid of the stock. We're probably not going to be carrying this one for too much longer So if you want to get this now is the time to get it

01:45:43

But uh, this is the neat thing with this is it's it's 24 different authors 24 different ways to share the gospel not necessarily just with mormons most of the chapters work for anybody but uh

01:45:54

That is something that uh, if you want to get it You can get it cheapest right now at striving fraternity.

01:46:01

So Um with that, let's see someone's asking me about the twitter andrew was your twitter account deactivated or did you id?

01:46:08

I deactivated it, but I can't seem to reactivate it so It is gone is what they i've been i'm gathering or being told so So I had to create a new one so um

01:46:22

You guys were talking baseball or something, you know Sports ball stuff.

01:46:27

That's all I know Well, someone made a comment about my hat go dogs and you know

01:46:33

I just brought up the fact that we won the national championship this year and uh, you know We also won the world series.

01:46:39

That's why chris changed his hat to the uh to the braves hat So it was a good year for georgia sports.

01:46:44

Um, we can't complain I will say my dogs won their the mississippi state won its first ever national championship in any sport last

01:46:53

Summer when we won it in baseball Well, I I think I think clearly the problem with all three of the teams that are mentioned

01:47:02

You you clearly you cannot be supporting any of those teams Two of them mentioned dogs.

01:47:07

I mean clearly that is animal cruelty besides the fact that you're appropriating a different species and I mean chris braves,

01:47:16

I mean Appropriate Someone else's culture thinking that you somehow what do you you feel brave appropriating indian culture?

01:47:26

Is that is that what you're look andrew? This is the thing with the dogs. Okay, we're bringing attention to bulldog awareness

01:47:32

Okay, you just don't understand. All right, there is right now. There is such a racism against bulldogs

01:47:40

That we just need to bring attention to it. Okay, and that's what i'm doing Georgia that's They don't get treated as fairly as like dobermans or Apparently being on twitter for 24 hours has already warped rangers

01:47:56

Look, you know if you deny that there's racism against bulldogs, then you're a racist.

01:48:01

You are the racist okay, i'm just gonna throw that out there and you you Don't argue with me because you're just me a racist even if you don't know you're a racist.

01:48:09

That's right. Yeah, that's right It's your it's your it's your unconscious bias president prejudice. And in fact, if you

01:48:15

You do not let me silence your speech Then then you are against free speech.

01:48:21

I mean I have to be able i'm against all speech that doesn't agree with my speech Well, hey there you know that that is one thing that's kind of interesting is

01:48:33

You know that there is um you know That we end up seeing that you you have um

01:48:41

People who now are getting so upset over twitter and what elon musk did That they're actually saying the truth

01:48:49

There's a reporter that that was so upset said, you know This is this is not right that that one billionaire can buy a social media company

01:48:57

And and think that he can he can you know, tell people what they should be thinking. That's our job

01:49:05

No, no media your job is actually to report the news It's But that that just goes to show

01:49:14

The mindset of the media, right? They think that their job is to tell you what to think They forget their job is just to relay what is happening

01:49:23

So so when when it first came out that elon musk was thinking about buying uh twitter outright chris honhold sent me a message

01:49:33

And we were talking back and forth it was just like Oh the fun it's going to be just just to watch the left lose their minds and they are they are all the people that drive teslas are are upset that elon owns twitter now

01:49:48

And they paid for it Elon's got this great little graphic up.

01:49:55

It has here's here's a guy, you know, here's a guy on the right. That's funny Justin, here's elon. He's kind of like maybe a little left to center and here's the left and then with each graphic The left guy keeps going further and further away dragging the line putting elon more on the right.

01:50:10

Hold on He hasn't moved and the right hasn't moved just the left is driving it way out.

01:50:16

He's like you guys kind of pushed me here Right. Hold on. I'm gonna try to bring that up here.

01:50:21

It's a great little graphic. I mean If you haven't seen it, but yeah Yeah, they are utterly losing their minds.

01:50:29

I mean and they're trying to say oh here it is right here And so what you see is On here.

01:50:35

It says year 2008 Elon's and he's admitting he's left of center And he's saying my my he has the the guy on the left and it says my my fellow liberal him close to that guy

01:50:47

Because remember folks everyone's thinking suddenly. He's a conservative. He's been a leftist right um, so just keep that in mind and So there he is he's left of center 2012

01:51:01

He's still left of center Conservatives haven't moved now. I I will admit notice.

01:51:06

He's got the conservatives all three times are smiling Okay, but he's got the guy on the left who's running away from elon saying my fellow liberal question mark and elon now has a questioning

01:51:17

Kind of look on his face then the third one You see the conservative

01:51:23

Staying right where he was Saying lol And all of a sudden what moved was the center mark

01:51:31

Elon hasn't moved It's the center mark that moved all the way to the left so that now he's conservative

01:51:37

And on the left, it says woke progressive Saying to elon bigot and elon's got a what?

01:51:45

expression so classic one from from you, I mean I'm, enjoying his his tweets.

01:51:51

They are Well, and it's it's hysterical because it's what we what we are seeing within the church is exploded in the secular world

01:51:59

And it's this idea of the redefinition of terms and dragging things more and more into the left

01:52:05

Destroying anything that they agree with and the problem is is that the reason that center mark moves so far

01:52:12

Is because in their mind the only free speech is that the speech that accords with what they believe

01:52:20

And anything that you know, if you allow for any conversation That disagrees with them.

01:52:25

That's fascist fascism And that's how they push him into the conservative camp because he just wants conversations to exist

01:52:31

You know, he he responded to somebody today about the issue of How they're you know, what this free speech is going to look like he says look mostly it's going to be the liberals that are upset

01:52:41

But even some conservatives Because everybody's drumbeat has you know, everybody's drumbeat has been free.

01:52:47

It's going to be this utter chaos No moderation whatsoever. He's like no that's never what I said And you have you have to have some level of moderation

01:52:55

You know, you you've got sean white screaming that he's going to allow people to basically have hate speech for jews

01:53:03

Because there's no moderation and it's like that's not what he said You have if you have a social media platform, there's going to be some level of moderation

01:53:09

So those of us are that are free speech lovers are probably not going to be happy if we have something of ours shut down But the left is going to have to deal with the same thing and that's what's driving them nuts

01:53:21

Yeah, here's here's the issue with with twitter not so much the free speech and people are so worried about the free speech aspect of it but People don't realize there's a bigger problem on twitter than free speech or lack thereof and that's

01:53:39

The porn that's readily accessible On twitter Oh, I didn't know that.

01:53:46

Oh, yeah, because i've been off it for for several years, but you know, he did you guys notice how quickly

01:53:52

Case people haven't been following the news and and we're gonna end up having a wrap up but this bad way to wrap up with this one, but so so Soon as elon announces he's gonna that he once the deal's done

01:54:03

That twitter is going to be bought out by elon musk That joe biden announces that they're going to have a department of homeland security for For was it the ministry of truth?

01:54:14

Oh, wait. No, it's not or something but the department of truth Right. No department of disinformation or something information.

01:54:21

Yeah, so so here's the thing. Let's get this straight the people That can't define what a man or woman is

01:54:29

They in fact, let's put it properly the people who want you To Accept a wrong definition of what a man and woman is

01:54:40

Want to be the ones to talk about what they call disinformation How in the world will they know what disinformation is

01:54:49

I mean their whole life is living a living ball of disinformation well

01:54:54

I mean, it's just yeah. Oh, yeah, justin. That's a good way to say it

01:54:59

Justin you see that in disney the the employees are telling the owner, you know, the the bosses what to do, right?

01:55:07

I mean it literally and then they're they're ruining their business, you know, I I just saw uh, the um,

01:55:12

Was it prince harry created some? business You know for mental illness and they had to cut

01:55:18

Cut people's pay because there just wasn't enough money and all these people are upset because they just expect like he's supposed to just fund them

01:55:26

And keep them employed like these people don't realize that you're gonna get fired But but because they've had a whole year or two where they've actually been paid not to work

01:55:37

They're now expecting that Yeah, and and what's

01:55:42

I think what's sad too is is going back to what somebody said a minute ago is how you

01:55:49

You see the professing evangelical those who profess faith in christ following suit

01:55:54

So you see you see the line moving and you see these professing evangelicals follow suit and looking more like the world

01:56:01

When what does scripture say? Yeah scripture says we're going to be the salt of the earth scripture says that if the world hates

01:56:08

If they jesus said if the world hates me, they're going to hate you The world's not going to hate its own

01:56:13

And when the church looks more like the world and follows suit goes back to something I said earlier

01:56:19

You see truly how wide how how there are those that profess lord lord.

01:56:24

Did I not do this? Yeah, but are on that wide path that leads to destruction instead of the narrow gate that leads to life.

01:56:30

Yeah and um You know speaking about disinformation as well, especially in in news, you know down here in the south

01:56:37

We have you know, the big three right? We have our bibles our guns and fox news, right?

01:56:42

So but But look at what fox news did what they do they brought in a man pretending to be a woman as a contributor

01:56:50

And you've got all these all these, you know quote unquote Christians that follow

01:56:57

And hang on everything fox news says well now fox news doesn't even know what a woman is Because they brought this man in pretending and that's going to give them information that they need to latch on to They will literally chide

01:57:11

Of katanji Jackson brown or whatever name is, you know, the new supreme court justice chide her for not being able to answer the question

01:57:18

Can you define a woman they'll chide her for that and literally the next segment? Oh, we're glad to have caitlin jenner on on and um, yeah and start referring to caitlin aka bruce

01:57:31

Jenner as as a she as they'll they openly the the host on fox news openly refer to him as a woman

01:57:39

Right. Yeah, like Okay, are are you are you self -awareness is dead

01:57:47

It's just astonishing Hey, i'll be just a note. I what I was gonna say.

01:57:53

Do you have anything else you want to share before we close out? Nah I was gonna relate a funny little story, but no go for it

01:58:04

No, i'm gonna pass I just thought better of it Okay well

01:58:09

I'll end it with this is you know we look at Everything that we've we've talked about tonight uh,

01:58:16

I think what you end up seeing is It you know, even with how we just were talking like the the the inmates are running the asylum um

01:58:26

We have seen a culture that has given themselves over to anything but truth

01:58:32

We we we see a culture that is so bent on ignoring the truth their their their

01:58:41

Denial of god and realizing that to deny god they have to deny truth They have gone so far from truth that anything is true to them anything but the actual truth and that really is

01:58:55

Kind of a theme that we saw throughout because when whether it's the julie roys or these others that people are writing against tom buck

01:59:02

Or you know, what is it? They're not interested in truth And I i'll say that you know, one of the things

01:59:07

I think and I think that I can speak for for everybody here The thing that's frustrating at least for me, but I think for all of us

01:59:15

Is that we believe in truth and when you see people that claim to be christians, especially and They're so loose with the truth

01:59:24

It is frustrating It's like what is wrong with them, you know, but the reality is this is this is the culture

01:59:34

They have given up On truth while while they demand that they are the truth that they speak for truth they they

01:59:42

They get so upset if in triggered if you were to have a biblical worldview, but you're not allowed to be triggered

01:59:49

That they're trying to force their agenda on you It is a complete opposite But this is exactly what we see in scripture so Let me say this if this has been frustrating episode for you because you're seeing this and saying man

02:00:03

What is wrong with all these people the truth should reign? It will There's nothing that god said that it will rain on earth

02:00:12

But I got news for you god wins And you know that clearly go read the book of revelation

02:00:19

I could sum that up in two words god wins Well, and when you abandon truth when you abandon god's truth and you suppress that truth god shoves you in the direction

02:00:28

You want to go and abandons you and that's not what you want to be. That's right. And that's what we see going on And so folks next next week, uh, we will have unapologetics live

02:00:40

Uh, i'm not sure who's running it. I know I won't be here. I will be out with Uh, kofi abuntu at uh, redeemer

02:00:48

Um bible fellowship there in oregon medford oregon So if you're in the medford oregon area come check that out.

02:00:53

We're going to be doing evangelism training Uh for the weekend so that I will be there I head out thursday.

02:00:59

So that's going to be friday saturday We're going to be doing that so and I know that on the Uh on the 12th for apologetics live anthony is going to be having some folks in and they're going to be discussing christian schools gone bad

02:01:14

So you will not want to miss that so with that folks Let's just say we hope that you enjoyed the show.

02:01:22

It was good to have the panel of guys here. Um All of us are members of the christian podcast community, by the way

02:01:30

So go over to christianpodcastcommunity .org and check out all the over 50 plus uh podcasts

02:01:38

Uh that are there. What are you pointing down? You want me to put it down? I'm just saying i'm telling people download it

02:01:43

Download it. Yeah Yeah, you could just go to you can actually if you could just go to christian podcast community put that in your in your

02:01:49

Podcast app you get all of them. And so we produce over 50 hours of podcast of podcast material a week

02:01:58

Okay, actually, sorry. No 50 Podcast episodes and over 30 hours. I let it sit for one week

02:02:04

I didn't listen to any of them just to see And and we've added about five shows since I did that. So uh, it's it's only growing

02:02:11

So encourage you guys to go check that out. Thanks guys for coming on as always You guys always add so much

02:02:18

Uh good biblical content and just folks The one thing to leave you with is that what's lacking in the church today is an understanding of the sufficiency of scripture

02:02:28

Know that the scripture is sufficient for all faith and practice. You do not need social justice.