Open Q&A with Justin Peters and a special guest

Hi, I'm Andrew Rappaport from the Christian Exhibit. Let me do that again. Yikes. I'm on yours for Justin here must that must be.

Welcome to Apologetics Live and Tonight’s Open Q&A

Welcome to apologetics lives. We're here to answer your questions and challenges about God and the Bible. Meet your hosts from striving for eternity ministries Andrew Rappaport, dr. Anthony Sylvester and pastor Justin Pierce.

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program apologetics live. It is a pleasure and honor to be with you tonight. I know you probably weren't expecting to see me, but I suppose I am the host of sorts tonight and I will shortly be joined by a good friend Chris Huff.

He's going to be joining us as well as a special surprise guest. Our guest has been in Apologetical broadcast purgatory for the last month or so and None other than Andrew Rappaport Andrew. Are you here?

It is good to be on my own show finally. Oh.

Justin how you were right? There is such a thing as purgatory. How was it?

It was bad at first but got better in the end.

You've had all your sins burned off and ready to join us back with us here.

It's something like that. Yes, but it is good to be back on apologetics live. It has been you know, you have been more regular here than I have been in in quite some time. So, so yeah, but it is good to be back just I know, you know some of the background to that.

We're let me before we get into that though, we're gonna have an open Q &A so anyone who wants can join us. Just go to apologetics live calm that's apologetics live calm and that is where you'll be able to Join ask any questions that you have for us.

So apologetics live calm is where to go. So. And I should throw in that this is a ministry of striving for eternity. So if you want to check out striving for eternity, that would be encouraged also. Mentioned Justin's website Justin Peters org.

Great site to go to. I just actually was referring someone over there this week Justin. Yeah, they may have been Dabbling or so with you know, something called, you know, NAR. Oh Yeah, so I sent them over to your site and Chris you are the the host of matter of theology podcast.

Which is a proud member of the Christian podcast community. So if you want to check out all the podcasts, which this is one of them just go to Christian podcast community org. So we're gonna have an open Q &A anyone can ask any questions.

But since it has been so long Justin, I should let everyone know how I'm doing why I was gone. I know, you know, but I I basically some of you guys know I've been struggling with some health issues very high blood pressure whatnot.

My wife was very concerned for me and she basically wants me around to make sure I take good care of her so Very important and for that reason basically with Running striving for eternity full-time Pastoring a church full-time doing some other things to make money.

I Something had to give and so basically we had at the church. This this month this week. Actually, I wrapped up both first Peter and Mark and so we got one of the other guys. It's gonna start teaching midweek Bible study.

And then I'm gonna be preaching through James for the majority of this year. Which is something I've already done all the research and study on having preached through that once before so that's gonna reduce the amount of time necessary To do that.

So with that the hope is is that I'll have more time to be able to now start devoting to To all the other stuff that I was doing it's driving for me. So I just had to find the right balance. What is it Justin happy happy wife happy life.

That's not in the Bible, but it's like pseudo-canonical.

I Inspired but it's it's pretty true kind of kind of like it's kind of like apocryphal.

Yeah, yeah exactly, right.

Yeah, so it's it is good to be back I I the the irony was I had said to the guys that I'd come back in May so I was supposed to be back starting in May and Justin UI and Anthony were talking last night and I realized well, let's see.

I'm gonna be in Oregon at Kofi's Church preaching on the 5th. I'm gonna be it in truth matters conference on the 19th, and then I'll be in Washington DC on the 26th. So I really only have two days in May.

I'll be here or one day. So I figure we figured we better I better come on now. So so with that want to just give a chance to Answer any questions that folks have we would prefer if you come on in but we do have one that popped up here quickly.

So before it goes away, I'll put this up because I think this one might be interesting for us to to discuss. Cody Robbins asks the questions. You have gotten heat from Julie Roy's for quoting Potestria, can you please lay out the position on that and Julie Roy's and I'm sure I Would be happy to jump on with Julie Roy's but I think she's referring specific or he's referring specifically you.

Because I didn't quote anything from Potestria.

Protesty has written several articles refuting Julie Roy's and just showing her shoddy shoddy journalism the way she constructs her articles that intentionally leave out some Pertinent facts that actually are exculpatory for Grace Community Church and John MacArthur she conveniently leaves those out and the even our headlines even the head the titles of her articles are Very misleading and so protest he has written some really good articles Demonstrating that showing that documenting that and so I've just I've had David hinky who runs my ministry Facebook page put those up on there and and regardless of of how you know, some view some of the some of the articles on Like a protest you whether they're, you know, a little too snarky at times, but but nonetheless the the material that they had Was good.

And so I put it on there and the jelly Julie Roy's is is She is a woman who Okay, let me say this I Saw someone showed me that a few weeks ago. Julie Royce was trying to get my attention on Twitter well, my Twitter account has been Deader than Genghis Khan since before kovat ever came on.

I got off of Twitter in October of 2019 so so much for you know this Investigative journalist who didn't even know I hadn't been on Twitter for two and a half years. So, you know, I mean it's just on and on and on Julie Royce has had it in for John MacArthur ever since John MacArthur said of Beth Moore go home ever since that she has She had had her sights set on John MacArthur and I can tell you, you know, some people say that I am Like a John MacArthur some people have said sycophant, which is rude, I'm not a I Just appreciate the man.

Is he is he perfect? Well, no, none of us. None of us is perfect. That's not the point. But this is a man who has been who's been a faithful Shepherd for 53 years and counting and I can tell you one thing I Have heard just in the last couple weeks and some of my travels I've been down to bitter, Florida preaching in a church there that has Led several of their elders or former Grace Community Church elders and on staff at Grace Community Church, you know years past.

And everybody that I've talked to they say that one thing that John MacArthur has Zero tolerance for and I mean none is sexual immorality. If if you are if you are on staff at Grace Community Church or an elder and you are You are caught in some kind of sexual immorality.

You're done. I mean John MacArthur There's no let's sit down and talk about why you did what you did or like, you know Let's talk about why you are the way you are. No, you clean out your desk. You're done and They've had to do that You know over the course of 53 years.

It's Not surprising that they've had to do that several times and they have it but that's the point they've done it so. Yeah, Julia Royce can I don't know. I have I have no respect for she and and What's come out in the last week or so this book that she wrote her own book that was published.

I think in 2017 she details this bizarre creepy relationship that she herself had With a when she was a youth minister with a with a girl in her youth group. And I mean you read you read about these details and it's disturbing.

I mean she is guilty of Talk about judge not lest you be judged Matthew 7 one That's a verse that is so often taken out of context and misused it actually fits with Julie Royce. She actually has done the things That she is trying to bring that John MacArthur down for doing that He never did in the first place, but she actually has done them.

So anyway, don't get me started. Sorry. I digress.

Why Julie Roys Is Being Criticized

Well, you know one of the things with the article and most people are talking about this most recent article I mean, she's you've already pointed out. She's she's tried several articles, right? She did one where.

Oh John MacArthur has he lives this lavish lifestyle and it he criticizes. You know the the word-of-faith people and. Yes, he he they they talk about her, you know, she talks about the size of his house she neglects to say that the size of her house is exactly the same size as his house and.

Then she talks about the fact that what his house is worth today not like what was it 50 years ago when he bought it. Right. So the area changed. You know Mike in-laws bought a place in New York. And when they died, yeah, it was worth over a million dollars.

But in New York that small little place Is is very little compared to the prices in New York. So you have to compare what the the price is to everything else around it? And what did he what did he pay for it when he bought it?

Has that all been an appreciation? You know, he he hasn't sold it then then she you know tried going after him for a watch that was a gift. So this one seems and I'm saying seems like it's really really wrong that seems like.

You know the the and keep in mind they're going after MacArthur when it wasn't even MacArthur involved in the council. From as far as I know. Okay, so first off. Yeah, if she really was looking to you know defend the victim she would defend the victim against the people that actually put her out of the church and.

That wasn't John MacArthur. So that that right off the bat and one of the things I was actually thinking what when I you know. When I got back to the show what I did want to do and maybe this will be a thing we could discuss tonight.

Is how to discern discerners? Royce places herself as the discerner, but as you pointed out and as I'm starting to point out there's there's things these people people do. That they're being dishonest in saying that they're trying to warn you against this.

You know people in the in the the sheepfold in the flock that are that are bad. So Julie Royce is trying to warn against John MacArthur because he's bad. But she's blaming him for something that he didn't do.

She's blaming him for something that at best you can say one of his elders did at best. Yeah. Yeah, I think Andrew.

Discernment, Factiousness, and the Fruit of Slander

There are a couple of thoughts that come to mind when concerning Julie Royce and Chris Honholtz, who who's the co-host of voice of reason radio he and I roomed together and For the Shepherds conference and and he and I talked about this.

You know. But one of the words that comes to mind when you when you hear Julie Royce or you see these things that she's posting is factious that that word factious and Titus 3 and 10 and 11 and the LSB says reject the factious man after a first and second warning Verse 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning being self-condemned and we're starting to see.

Some of that stuff come out with her and what one other passage of Scripture Is Proverbs 14 25 a truthful witness delivers souls, but he who breathes out lies is deceitful and so when it comes to maybe discerning discerner is one of the things that I think about if we think about our brother Justin Peter's here, you know, his goal is is the the sanctification and the salvation positionally progressively of souls in In in the discernment that he does that's his goal.

His goal is to warn the Saints is to is to to wave the red flag and say stop. This is antithetical to Scripture. Why what is the purpose behind that to deliver souls? When you think about somebody like Julie Royce and others.

Their whole goal is their own platform and deceit and lies. Period. Yeah, that's that's and someone Jason Cave just said, you know, we must look at their fruits. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely well, I mean.

MacArthur this is a man who if those of you saw the interview I did with him and and and I say this because I really believe it that that God and his in his In his sovereignty has chosen to use John MacArthur's ministry in a in a more far a more Far-reaching way just the sheer scope of it.

Right when you look at the seminary you look at the University you look at all the men that they have trained to be pastors you look at TMAI the churches a planet the the New Testament commentary said the systematic theology all the books or the radio the Making all of his sermons available for free on the internet that have gone all around the world I think God has used just in the sheer scope of his ministry.

God has used John MacArthur more than he has. Anyone any single man since the apostolic era?

Amen, I agree. Yeah. Technology and where we are. Yeah, I mean Spurgeon it being the most quoted preacher as far as I know in history. Yeah, sure. But but he didn't have the scope that John MacArthur has because of the technology that's available.

Yeah, it took years for Spurgeon to get as quotable as you know. Because people didn't have the quotes in their language and things.

And can you put up? Canada. Carlos's comment right there so we can. I'd like to address that. Yeah. Yeah, it's.

It says agreed brothers, but why doesn't MacArthur come out? With a statement and make things clear. So people are not confused by Julie Royce and I'll address this after you.

Okay. All right, so My two cents on that two things one the issues that Julie Royce's are bringing up. Those are in-house Church discipline issues that they have dealt with Going by the book the steps of Matthew 18.

They're not for broadcast. They're not for public consumption. Church discipline issues are not supposed to be for church for public consumption. They're for the local body. I was I was there at a couple of a couple of years ago.

I was there when they were doing church discipline on someone and I won't name the person I just happen to be there as a guest visiting that particular Sunday. They turn the cat television cameras off when they have to do that when they have to do church discipline.

They turn it off. They turn the cameras off. So. So people around the world aren't aren't watching it. Why. Because it's it's none of their business. It's a local. It's there. It's a local church issue.

It's their issue in their local body. And so they deal with it appropriately. That's one thing the other thing. The reason one of the reasons that John MacArthur and Grace Community Church have not come out with any more I mean they did make a kind of a statement on one of Julie Roy's articles.

But the reason they reason John MacArthur doesn't come out and answer all these things is because John anybody who knows John MacArthur knows this About him. He doesn't defend himself. I have heard John MacArthur say that he would not defend himself to Satan.

If Satan himself were accusing him, he wouldn't defend himself to Satan. He just he doesn't do that. That's that's not John MacArthur. He just doesn't do it. As long as he is standing on truth. His conscience is clear and he knows that God is his judge not anybody else.

And so he did he just doesn't respond. Now other people who know him and love him and support him. They will do some of that on their own on On What's the word I'm looking for. Without having been asked by John MacArthur to do it.

They just do it on their own, but John MacArthur does not defend himself. He doesn't answer those criticizing them and I think with a lot of wisdom in doing that because the thing about John MacArthur's enemies.

I mean Aside from the charismatics, they they're the woke crowd the social justice crowd the feminist the egalitarians the woke. You know the race baiters and all this kind of stuff. They're never satisfied.

They're never satisfied if he were to answer one thing it would be. Yeah, but what about the da da da da? Yeah, but what about this and that, you know? It they would all just it would always be a one-up kind of thing.

And so it's a it's a they're never satisfied. There's no satisfying. So that's why it doesn't because it's just a theological tar, baby.

Amen. Sometimes the things Justin says a tar, baby. You know that story Uncle Remus.

No. Rare rabbit and Briar Brer Rabbit and Brer Fox and Uncle Remus. I remember those stories as a kid, but yeah, you know Brer Rabbit there was this Character figure thing made out of tar and it had some eyes put on it was wearing a hat and Brer Rabbit thought it was real and Brer Rabbit started trying to talk to it and the tar, baby wouldn't answer because of course.

It's an inanimate object and Brer Rabbit got mad at it. You know how rude and all so Brer Rabbit finally got so mad at the thing that he never answered it that he punched him. Of course his fist got stuck in it.

So he punched him with the other fist and it got stuck and then he kicked him and his feet got stuck in it. And so that's that's what would happen if John MacArthur started trying to answer Julie Royce.

Yeah, what about you know? Well, let me you know, let me give a little bit of a longer longer answer because a couple things I want to tie in with this, okay first off so. My first pastor actually he was he was the first graduating class of Master's Seminary.

And he used to as part of his job. He would clean the building there and he would clean John MacArthur's office he told me that MacArthur would get a Fresh stack one foot high of hate mail that he would read through every day and he'd have maybe an inch of fan mail and He was a new stack like every day and MacArthur would actually read and respond to a lot of those letters and the responses that he'd respond or not.

Like let me let me defend myself, but thanking them for sending their criticism. So so that's the the character of the person we're discussing, but let me explain. How does a Julie Royce or any of these discernment bloggers?

How do they come about? Because there's there's there's a plethora of of these types. Because that's then gonna get into the question of why doesn't MacArthur say anything. So, let me start with how these guys start off.

Usually what you find is you'll get someone who and I forget Julie Royce exposed someone early on. I forget who that first person was. But with any of these people they do mark Driscoll James McDonald James McDonald.

That was it. That was never thinking. Yeah, so so and and they'll usually do really good work that initial time and they get a following they get a platform. And then what they want to do is keep that going.

They're trying to figure out the next person to expose. So in other words, they're not looking to say hey this person I found out is dangerous and I need to warn people about that. Yes, and they do that and then afterwards they're saying How do I keep the the platform going?

How do I keep people listening to me? How do I keep people coming to me? Well, I got to find someone else to go after and so they find someone else now that what are they doing now at that? Point they've now changed to Specifically be looking to attack Christians.

Why to build a platform for self. Then what you end up happening even the second third even maybe the fourth person. They're still doing a really good work a lot of times. But eventually they run out of people where they can dig up enough dirt that they find something legit.

And you start taking a little bit of shortcuts. Maybe just not say everything you might say is true. But not exactly in the same order and and this is what Julie Roy's does as I pointed out earlier, right?

She she mentions about John MacArthur's house. Is it true that that he has a house the size? He's has yes. Is it true? It's worth that much today. Yes, that doesn't mean he paid that much you see that details left out.

What you'll see often with these people is everything though they everything they'll say may be true. But they put it in a different order and by doing that they're purposely being deceptive. So that though they can claim everything they said is true.

They're specifically wording it in a way to lead you to a false conclusion. They won't give they won't give all the details. So telling half the truth is a lie when you're doing it for the purpose of deceiving and this is what ends up having and Eventually with many of these bloggers what ends up happening is they just start out right line.

They just start to say okay. Well, we got to make this up literally heard from someone who wrote an article against John Piper. I'm not a big fan of John Piper, but the person said that John Piper said quote Works are necessary to earn salvation unquote and I went through every Book that that Piper had fortunately I have logos and different tools to search him.

Could not find that quote in any of his books. The closest I could come is it said that Sit with that works are necessary for salvation and he was referring to to the glorification our sanctification works being in glorification and.

So what you end up seeing is I end up going to that author and I said, where is this quote from he said. Well, that's what he means. I said, no. No, you can't put it in quotes if he didn't actually say that and you added a word that totally changes the meaning and This person is saying well, that's what he actually means.

Well, he's defended the opposite and I think he would know better what he means. This is they'll start to outright make things up. This is what ends up happening it's it's a it's a slow thing, but the ultimate goal is for a Platform now when I started into ministry we had I had a bunch of you know, a bunch of theonomists that were coming after me because I'm dispensational and they didn't like it and I Defended dispensationalism and I kept asking the same questions that I think they had a hard time answering.

But the issue was it really frustrated me that people that I called brothers in Christ. Were going out there and saying things they knew were false because they told me they knew it was false and I couldn't believe they did.

I talked to a friend of mine Matt slick at the time and he told me this is the way People do ministry. I said what he says. Oh, yeah, what they do is they find someone who's a little bit bigger than them.

Trash them to get the the audience from them and then they get bigger that way. I'm like Matt. Come on, that doesn't that can't possibly be the way things work. Unfortunately, he's right. This is often how it works.

You know the way it all it often ends up working is that people will will go and this is where they build the platform. They go after attacking someone else. They get in some attention for doing it and people who the people who don't like MacArthur.

They're going to Gravitate toward Julie Roy's because they already don't like MacArthur and they like what she's saying. They're not asking if it's true. They just like having the ammunition so that they can hate whoever it is.

I Think that's an unchristian way of doing things. That's why it's driving fraternity. We started the Christian podcast community. We started discipling other ministries to help them not behave that way because that we want to disciple, you know.

Doing things in a Christian way crazy idea. But the reason of John MacArthur. So all that said I think the reason of John MacArthur is not going to respond is a he wasn't involved number one the other elders were number two.

When you have a person like that. They have nothing to lose by having a John MacArthur respond to them and everything to gain. Because when when you get the response it only gears them up to a CCC. I'm a I'm a big important person.

John MacArthur is responding to me. That's what they're gonna end up doing and then that that gives them a larger audience. And that's the reason that I've been counseled by many people. I know many others who do that.

They just don't respond. Don't respond to it when it when it's the the response is as simple as this and and there was some response, but you end up seeing when we look at at the Timeline of things and this was the thing that got me when I looked at this whole Julie Royce thing.

And Chris after after this, I'm gonna throw it over to you to see what your thoughts are with it. But when I looked at this whole Julie Royce thing what I noticed was there's some important details. She leaves out.

Okay. You know you end up seeing things like When you look at the timeline. So there was like this Police, you know where she I guess she was trying to. She was trying to get him if I remember correctly like get a Restraining order on him and even the police didn't believe her side of the story.

There was no no Accusation of sexual abuse for four years later. So why do we 20 years later? Are we gonna hold it against men for information? They did not know at the time. Now if she's gonna claim she knew that there was sexual abuse at that time that she was being disciplined.

That wasn't she never came public with if it wasn't known for four more years. So you can't hold that these men Accountable for disciplining her based on the knowledge. They have now. Here's the simple thing I've been in Situations like this I've counseled and I can tell you there are times where you have a woman who just wants out of a marriage.

I've seen it and. And they'll sit there and and they do not want to reconcile that marriage. They want you pastor to say that they're right in getting a divorce so they can go off and even remarry. And when you look at two people and you see a guy who's saying I was wrong.

As a case I had to deal with had a guy he was he was addicted to pornography. He was looking at it regularly. It was an issue and and his wife was saying he's committing adultery. I can divorce him and remarry and I Will wait like you we were let's try to reconcile this here.

And she was like no I have my way. He committed adultery. I have my way out. She was never looking for reconciliation. I Know another person that actually denied her husband physical intimacy for years until he finally had an affair and Then she said I can get divorced and I said no you can't.

Because because she actually knowingly admitted that she was denying him that that relationship. Waiting for him to have the affair so she could leave the marriage. See then she's not looking to reconcile.

Then who's in sin the one unwilling to reconcile when you look at Matthew 18 take a look at that. It's in a context folks in the context of a prideful person and what you end up seeing in Matthew 18 is this.

Matthew 18 is for a person that refuses to repent. That's who it's toward you have a person who refuses to repent. And if you have one member of the marriage who's refusing to repent and one that's admitting.

He failed is Wrong and trying to do better trying to show repentance. You're going to side with the person who's showing repentance the one who's lacking repentance. You're not going to side with that.

That's just the way that it ends up happening because Matthew 18 is for the unrepentant sinner. Not the repentant one. Okay, do you go through that process when someone refuses? So so the whole thing is why won't they will as and lastly as as Justin said It's basically because of this that was it's it is an in-house thing and it is meant to be kept as private as possible.

And keep in mind folks if you want to go after the husband in that situation that Julie Royce brings up. Just remember the wife also was abusing the children. They Julie Royce doesn't made me not want to mention that part that that they both had admitted to that.

So With that Chris, let me throw it over to you.

Yeah, you know. Ladies and gentlemen, the court of public opinion isn't an actual court. Do we understand that? Especially when it comes to matters of church discipline. And and to to drag up something that took place 20 years ago.

To not report all the facts. Is it is a lie period period? You know, she just came out with another Another attempt that he covered up abuse. He did this he did that. You know and and tried to lay out all these facts and and it was.

Again, it's it's stuff that's left out. It's stuff that's twisted. It's written in a way To to create division. What is the purpose of church discipline? It's restoration. It's restoration and the purity of the bride.

Period and and and so you don't you know trying to trying to bring all these facts out and Disparage someone as my brother drew Vanita said who who's 50 plus years in ministry speaks for itself is Is is nothing short of trying to create division and at that moment Julie Royce and her ilk?

As Han holds would say They are showing who their true father is and it ain't Christ. It's no member of the Holy Trinity. Their father is the devil and. And and I believe their fruit their continued fruit shows that Christ is the one who builds his church.

Christ is the one who purifies his church. Christ is not going to use a woman who Has poor theology number one has a questionable background number two to purify his church. Uh-huh, that's not the way he works.

He is going to use faithful men Pastors and elders and he's going to use the events of the days if we've as we have seen over the last couple of years to shake the trees and to show Visibly a separation of wheat from tares ladies and gentlemen brothers and sisters.

Wide is the path that leads to destruction. Narrow is the gate that leads to life and we're continuing to see that. So, you know John 844 is where I'm getting that as far as their father John 844. You are of your father the devil and you want to do the desires of your father.

He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature for he is a liar and the father of lies. So anybody who's taking facts that may have happened or partial truth and twisting that.

For to add to a framework of division. Guess who their father is guess who they're acting like the devil. Now one other thing and then I'll. Because Justin said something that I want to I want to comment on John MacArthur and the elders of grace Community Church.

No, they're not perfect. Absolutely not. And if you talk to any of them, you'll understand that they believe and they know that there have been obviously over the last five decades been people on that staff who have have have sinned and and and Fallen and they've been immediately dismissed.

Let me also let you know that that same standard applies to the master seminary that if you don't meet that standard or if there's even if there's even an inkling of Deception you will not only will you not be allowed entrance you'll be banned from ever applying there.

Because of that they take this very very seriously now. Kofi Kofi said something deep bad discipleship. He said I wish they would release a statement. They don't need to they don't need to that. It is it is trust me.

They are not being wailed on. They don't care and I and I don't mean that in a negative way like they just don't care. I mean like no they're focused on what what what we're commanded to do in Scripture and that's to go and make Disciples and teach them to obey all that Christ has commanded us.

Tom Buck, the SBC, and the Problem of Predetermined Narratives

Yeah, and let me with the Sun I said David who's backstage said it seems like some people treat adultery like a get out of marriage free card. And I think he's he has a valid point there. Cody says this sometimes you need to look a little more closely through.

Though to make sure there is enough integrity some wolves blend in really well. Secret handshakes and backroom whispers can be a couple can accomplish much evil. And I mean SPC can we say? Okay, I mean Justin we originally going to talk about, you know, first Baptist, Orlando SPC Church and what's going on there, which we'll see if we can get there.

But let me give a shout out to Chris long holds if he would come in. You know because first off he did say this. He said don't be going and given the facts into this Andrew. It ruins the narrative and and you know, the reason why I'd like Chris to come in.

We we had a question from Cody that I'd like to get to as well. Cody said I'd also like to hear you guys address the Tom Buck situation and so the reason that I would like him to come in is because you know the Voice the reason radio did a rather lengthy and they you know, they're not.

You know just thinking podcast. Okay, they don't go two and a half three hours. Okay, like just thinking guys. I Guess since since Chris and and Richard do a show every week for the most part. It's harder to do two-hour shows, but they did a very lengthy show on voice of reason radio addressing the whole Tom Buck thing and There is a lot of similarities here I mean It was actually listening to their podcast voice of reason radio that got me thinking Hey when I get back to apologetics live, it would be good to do a show on discerning the discerners.

Because so much of this it's the same pattern over and over and over again just different people doing it and The Tom Buck situation is the same thing and and I encourage you go to voice of reason radio and listen to that Issue with Tom over Tom Buck and you'll see I mean it was he Chris and Richard did a painstaking view of going through The Whole the article that was laid out against Tom and and showing how yeah, they're just leaving out all these important details.