Interview with Keith Pavlansky

Good evening, everyone. This is Truth in Love. Thank you for joining us tonight. We get truth and love from Ephesians chapter four verse fifteen but speaking the truth and love we are to grow up in all aspects into him who is the head even Christ and that's what we want to do.

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Tonight, I have a a very very special guest, Pastor Keith Pavlansky um and I am so honored and blessed to have have met him, getting to know him, and have him here tonight. Um if you've seen him, any of my posts lately, you'll notice that I have been trying to promote an organization called Personhood Alliance that is um putting forth effort to end abortion and and we wanna jump on that and we wanna lock arms with him and Keith is representing uh Personhood Alliance tonight and he is um in our state uh representing the organization in our state and I'm so thankful that he is uh with me tonight to give us more information about that organization.

So, without any further ado, let's start with um you introducing yourself,.

Keith. Oh, sure. Uh first of all, thank you very much for having me. It's uh it's it's certainly a pleasure uh to be with you. We've talked a couple times and uh and uh and it's just been enjoyable each uh each conversation we've had but um I'm I'm Pastor Keith Pavlansky.

Uh I'm physically located in Yadkinville, North Carolina. We run a school Christian uh Christian school there, a church. Um I'm also in business uh uh manufacturing business with my family um producing some foam plastics and things like that and um and but with regard to the to this particular topic, I also wear one more hat and that's uh uh the state director for the Alliance and um and it it is certainly as you said, it's our goal to end abortion in certainly in our state and ultimately in the country but we we start with everything local uh in the alliance.

So, uh we break it down all the way to uh to the state level and to the county level and even you know, townships and cities uh and we try to uh encourage pastors to become engaged on what we believe is the number one moral issue of our day and that is uh that is abortion.

Uh our view is that if we were all Christians and we had been around in uh Europe in the nineteen uh you know, 1930s that uh that we would have stood up and said something against the uh uh the holocaust that was going on against the Jews.

It was the number one moral issue of the If we had been around in the um in the 1860s uh here in the south and uh and there was slavery going on in the country, we would like to believe that that we would all stand up and say this is just not right.

This can't be allowed to persist. Um it goes against the word of god and we do have that chance here in uh in uh you know, 2021 uh the number one moral issue of the day is that uh uh we have stolen the the personhood.

We've stolen the the rights of children in the room in this in true children in the womb in this country for uh you know, what would basically almost be the last 50 years and uh and we've got uh uh in essence another another holocaust going on in our society and so it's it's not something to be um you know uh to be avoided.

This is something that we should head, you know, we should we should face head on and uh and we have something as a the church of god to say about it and uh and fortunately in our state, we started to take some uh some positive moves in the in a direction to finally see uh an input to this uh this evil.

Practice. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm going to start out with this quote. This quote comes from uh Sarah Quayle Qualley Qualley Sarah Qualley and this is a quote. This is when she gives at the beginning of um uh a new video.

I think that it was released uh very recently from the organization and I think I think this quote says that I understand why they put it first and foremost there on the video. I mean this quote sets the uh foundation uh to me for the ministry for this conversation that we're having.

So, let me start our conversation with this quote. Uh Sarah says our culture has embraced a godless worldview about life, marriage, family, sexuality, and even gender. The church has been battling this competing worldview by turning over our spiritual authority to judges and politicians that are just not interested in the redemption of souls and we need to set back.

That is what this effort is all about. Claiming our right to govern locally and claiming our spiritual authority. We have the answer to abortion to this uh to the abortion crisis. It's Jesus. Only he can bring heart changes that are necessary here and only we can stand up and demand abortion end in our backyard.

That's a powerful quote and like I said, I think it sets the foundation. I wanna um just briefly give you my testimony of how I got to to you and this organization. Um I was just trying to brainstorm about what I could do.

Um I was in the same boat. I'm probably most everyone else is in. Yeah, I'm a Christian. Um uh I I feel like I did my my religious, my spiritual, my civic duty. Uh I voted for pro-life candidate um but I don't have you know a whole lot of money to to pour into a ministry, pour into a candidate.

Uh I don't have you know the extra time to to go out on the sidewalk you know very often and so I I was trying to think what can I do? What is something that I can do and and what comes to my mind was can our county speak as a as a whole?

Can we say something to this issue as a whole? And I I shared with a friend that's also in a in another pro-life ministry. Um I share with him my thoughts and he said, I know the person that you need to contact and he gave me your name and I was introduced to personhood alliance.

So, what I would like for you to do is kinda give your testimony of how you got.

To uh personhood alliance. I I don't know how how much time.

The show has all together. Um uh but I will say uh I had my first foray into uh into politics if you will was during HB two, the fiasco that was going on uh with uh with that whole uh bathroom bill issue and um and and on for 18 months, we fought a fight down at the the board of education here.

I started to get a flavor for the process and and who you speak to and how you uh present things and uh and that pushed us ultimately um when that had we actually won a we won a victory here in our county.

We uh we we convinced them to change the policies that were uh at the school level. Every every district in this uh in this state has what they call a bullying policy at the school level and uh inside that policy is a bunch of what's referred to as language uh sexual orientation and gender identity.

It basically gives these people super constitutional rights and it wasn't right but we had that change at our county level saying you have to change this. You gotta pull it out because it doesn't match state law and it took us months but we got that done and on the tails of that uh it was the next legislative session and I said, let's you know, let's let's see if we can't get our local uh uh state representative to to put a um uh personhood amendment on the docket to get voted for at the at the state level.

Well, I ended up hitting a number of roadblocks and when I did, I was looking for information looking for in some cases, legal ease for uh support for I said, where do you find this stuff? I'm just a guy.

I'm just uh I'm I'm a nobody who knows nothing. How do I, how do I take the next step and uh just searching the internet, I ran into the personhood alliance and it had all the answers I was hunting for.

It had them all categorized and here's how you do it and here's what you do next and so II went to them to their website and says, alright, who do I hook up with here in North Carolina that can get us to the next level because I'm kind of busy here in Yadkinville and uh and they said, you know, believe it or not, uh we don't have anybody yet in the state.

We need somebody to uh to lead the charge. You know, somebody has to say yes in order for this thing to move forward and I said, alright, I said, I've got a million other things to do. My time is limited but this is is something that I cannot turn away from.

It's it's not uh it's not the type of issue that you can just decide uh isn't important enough to make room for. So, I made room for it in uh in my schedule and uh it started the process and got us down the road and quite honestly, within 6 months, we were uh we found ourselves the the the first county in the in the history of the United States to be listed as a sanctuary for unborn children.

Oh wow. They were very excited. Hey, great things. Experts out there. Whoever this pastor is, he's uh you know, he's really got it going and it's it's been a fun ride but uh this is one of the things that we uh that we mention is that you don't have to be a particular expert in order to uh in order to push this thing forward.

You don't have to have a pedigree or uh you don't have to have as as you mentioned earlier, you don't have to have tons of time or tons of money.

In order to make a great impact. Fantastic. You've kind of answered uh my next two questions already. What is personal alliance and uh and what part do you play? So, if there is there anything additionally that you wanna add.

To that before we move on? Uh it's it's worth noting that it is a national organization that each state has a uh uh and and organized entity and the whole is at each state level is to win these kind of victories and so there are good people in other states that are doing the same exact thing.

So, I've got good friends now in Texas and Mississippi and Wisconsin and Michigan and and Pennsylvania and and Minnesota. They're all over the country and they're doing these same things on a basis. They're trying to get uh personhood amendments uh you know on the docket to be voted on at the state level but we also came up with this tremendous um what I feel is the best strategy in the pro-life movement uh uh to achieve the abolition of uh of abortion in our country and that's this sanctuary city or the sanctuary county uh uh project.

Um it's it to me it is the best strategy that I have seen out there. It's one that can win immediate battles. It can put points on the board and it can get us where we want to be which is uh is the end to abortion here in our state and.

Certainly all over the country. Absolutely. So, what I'm what I'm gonna do next is is just go through a list of questions that that I pulled off um the information on the the website and other places and just give you a chance to respond and so one of the one of the quotes or one of the statements on the on the website is it states this personhood is the right to have rights.

So, can you say that in your own words? Yeah,.

Absolutely. A little bit better. Anytime that you uh I should say this as Americans, this should be something that that really resonates with us. Um we've got this great beautiful uh document in the uh you know, Declaration of Independence and it says, we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal and they're endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights and basically that says that every person that is created in god's image has certain rights that come to him directly from god, not from government, not from any other organization but directly from god and what has always happened is anytime that that uh that you see great evil taking place, one of the great evils is to take those rights away and to say you don't have the right to have those rights.

That's exactly what happened to the slaves here in uh in America in uh you know, in the in the 1800s in the lead up to the Civil War uh and it's the same kind of thing that happened in Germany in the 1930s.

Basically, you have some judge at some point says, although you're a human being, we're taking away your rights. You don't have the right to have rights and we're simply saying this is the answer to the abortion issue as well because what the judges said in 1973 is that they were taking away the rights of children in the womb.

In fact, in the in the trial, the Roe versus Wade trial, it's very interesting that one of the judges uh was asking was pressing the uh uh the abortion attorney and said, what if it were to happen that a specific state would um would determine that uh that the babies have rights that the the fetuses have rights.

I think was the language he uses. What if they were determined that that began at uh fertilization or at conception and they both laughed at the moment and the uh the attorney basically agreed saying, yeah, then we have no position whatsoever.

Our our position completely folds. There is there's nothing to be done and and so that was the direction attack they took. We think they gave us a real key to how to uh to um to defeat abortion from a legal standpoint that that's a key that was given to us saying, here's how you do it.

You go into a state and you say in our state, we believe that life begins at conception or at fertilization and uh and continues through till natural death and that people have rights all during that process from beginning to end and um that's to me that is the the central issue and the argument that we're making and uh and really the strategy that we're taking in order to uh to end abortion.

There are a lot of different strategies that are out there. We're just uh uh I'm very sold on the idea of taking this uh uh uh this idea and passing um laws inside the states um in order to give children in the womb the same rights that we believe god granted them.

Yeah, absolutely Should resonate with all Americans though. It really.

Should. Absolutely and that answer kind of leads into the next one and some of these answers may bleed in to each other and that's okay but the the next one kind of goes like this and this comes from the website as well.

Pursuing personhood as the essential strategy for restoring legal protection to um to every human being uh from biological beginning to natural death. Um so, we're looking at that and we we know it's we know it's a legal battle.

Um can you explain also uh which I'm sure you've you've thought this through how this is uh a moral ethical and a spiritual or Christian um battle as well. Yeah. Yeah. When you when you.

Mention those three specifically, we're really talking about the the very first thing that we that uh that Sarah's uh opening remarks talk about and that's there's actually a competition of worldviews out there and we're unashamedly and uncompromisingly saying uh you know, we believe that uh that there is a god who created us all.

We believe that uh his will can be known by reading his uh his word which is the inspired Bible. The uh the word of god and uh and so I'm unembarrassed as a as a Christian to say, yeah, I believe in creation.

I believe uh uh I believe the entirety of the word of god and I believe that because he created everything, he gets to make all the rules and one of the rules that he's made is that you can't kill innocent human beings, right?

So, it's pretty simple how we go. If you come at it from uh and and really what we're up against is that people don't hold that same worldview. They arrive at a completely they believe uh in a fantasy world that everything came from nothing that there is no god.

Therefore, there is no uh origin. There's no uh we're all a great cosmic accident. There can be no morality. There can be no purpose in life and we have no ultimate destiny destiny and that that can only lead in one direction that leads towards violence and evil.

If there is no moral foundation, if there's no mooring that holds us that keeps our society in check uh again, you've you've you're floating in the waves uh tossed to and fro and that's exactly what we're seeing in society particularly in the last year.

So, and and you know, realistically since 1973 uh with.

Regard to this abortion issue, right? Gotcha. Alright, here's here's a thought from me and I want to get your your opinion on this thought. Um I see this as a rescue mission um in in two ways and I I think there are two sides to the same coin even though one may lead to the other but I I see it as a rescue mission.

First, it's a rescue mission for this um for this term personhood. Uh we want to to rescue that that term personhood um to where it is it has its true definition in in our laws basically and then it's a it's a rescue mission for the the preborn or the unborn um the the babies in the womb and so do you think I'm in the right direction thinking.

That way? Uh yeah, I don't I again, I have I have no uh um I wouldn't contradict anything that you're saying. Okay. You talk in two in two uh in in two directions. One is is the idea of rescuing the term itself and uh huh and and and I agree that uh um and I guess if I'm understanding the question, right?

You're you're kind of saying we do have legal legal battles that have to take place and things uh you know, there's a process if you will uh that takes place in essence on the legal side but also there is uh there is and and what I would look at is these are these are parts of the same strategy, right?

You have to also somebody, you know, we need sidewalk counselors. We need people down showing up at the abortion clinics and doing that work. I'll note this because I think that it's what you said is uh is pretty insightful.

A lot of really good hearted people tried to fight this exclusively in the courts in the in the late 70s and and even since then and they spend all kinds of money and effort in order to in order to try to to lobby in the state capitals uh in the US capital even in order to get this thing uh off of ground zero and and pushed forward only to find out that they they spend all this time money effort only to come up one vote short every time and it's happened repeated over and over in one state after the other and got very um uh depressed uh demoralized and what they kind of decided was we could do more good if we would just show up at the clinic, you know, every day of the week and just start talking to moms and believe it or not, they've had great success pulling one and two out of the fire but my point or my view is that you can't you can't eliminate the other side of it.

In essence, uh if you're familiar with the story of Esther, they spent time praying. Uh there was there was great uh uh intercession that took place in that in that uh Esther went before the king made her petition to save her people uh and and basically the king said, well, you know, I you know, I'll uh what I can do is I can kill Haman who was who was out after him.

So, they did that but the story didn't end there. This edict was still out there and and the uh the the Jewish people were still at risk. There was still a day coming when they were going to be attacked and killed and and basically they said somebody has to write a law.

Somebody has to uh to write a new law and in the process, I'm saying we can't forget that we need to we need to involve ourselves in that side of it as well and and that's part of what we're doing and it's part of changing the culture uh uh certainly engaging the culture but uh ultimately, we'd like to see a change on on that side.

Um my point is that you can't you can't only do one of them. You you you need to do both, right?

Absolutely. Um so that leads me to uh some other things that came out of the website. So, once we're successful in that rescue mission, uh III thought this was insightful from the website. It kind of gives some um examples of what that would look like.

So, for instance, uh from a doctor's point of view, um he he would see two patients. That's that's the example that that he gives. Um uh and so, could you could you talk to us about, you know, how how the how it would change, how our viewpoint would change as as a doctor um and the the examples that they give are a doctor, a lawyer, a judge, an activist, and and a pro-life organization, how their views would change once um we we've got the the correct definition of personhood and you know, we're we're rescuing babies.

How would how would a doctor view it differently at that.

Point? Uh again, there are some good doctors out there already who certainly do have a biblical worldview and uh and they view it that way today that they are in essence. In fact, I feel like that was the traditional position of most doctors, isn't it?

A pregnant woman came in that they were treating both but uh if you were uh I mean, I recall my wife and I going into the doctor and I took great offense when uh gosh, it was, you know, it's an exciting time as as new potential parents uh and and and they say, oh, well, we need to uh we need to check this box and tell you that uh uh you know, you're you're in a high-risk category.

My wife, you know, was uh a little bit older. I want to say that we were she might have been thirty. I'm trying to remember thirty-five when we had our second uh our second son and well, we need to tell you that uh you're in a high-risk category.

So, we need to introduce you to all this other uh all this other information and basically, they were they were using all kinds of fancy words for telling us that uh that they wanted to kill our baby.

Okay. Well, I took a great offense at that. I said, well, we just have to tell you and I said, you're offending me. Stop talking. I don't, you know, this is this is not acceptable to be to be casually discussing murder in uh in this in this context and hope those kinds of things would change again and we would go back to a uh uh to to a a place in our country where we would value life that we'd respect life and and that would happen not just in the doctor's office but as you describe uh the activists, the uh the lawyers, the attorneys at the point that you recognize that uh an individual unique life has extraordinary value.

Uh it changes your perspective on things and and we really believe that the baby inside the womb is no different than the baby outside the womb. It has the same amount of value and hard to make an argument.

Other than that. Yeah and I can't remember all the arguments but I think it's a good argument. Um location is not an argument. You're you're the same whether you're in the womb or on the moon. Um there's quite a few other arguments.

Yes, whether and again, there's a there's a little term sled SLED and it helps you to, you know, the environment that they're in the uh the the the amount of dependency that they have, right? None of those and those are all the reasons that are given for this is why we should be allowed to kill this baby and none of those rises to the level uh to a baby outside and you would never think, well, this this baby is very small.

So, we're going to, we're going to give them a third of the rights that we give everybody else. It doesn't make sense at all uh logical or a philosophical uh standpoint to be making those kinds of arguments.

So, I find them to be very effective in particularly in a conversation.

On abortion as well. Absolutely. Uh you've you've kind of answered uh my next several questions. Uh just just want to touch on this one. You've already touched on the fact that there's other pro-life organizations out there and I wanted to ask you about what you saw as as the differences between the personhood alliance and maybe some of the other ones.

Uh I know there's uh many different things that we could talk about but are there there any uh major points that you would like to to present as far as differences between the organizations? Um yeah, I mean.

There's always going to be differences in organizations and typically that boils down to the difference in vision and real simple uh we want to see an end to this evil practice immediately. Right. Position.

Um so, we tend to take uh what would be considered a uh an immediate position. Uncompromised position. Uh and there are plenty of other groups that are out there. They're good people and I don't uh again, I I find that their strategies have been completely useless for the past 47 years and yet they're trying the same strategy over and over.

So, with uh you know, with personhood uh we take an uncompromised position. We're simply saying god's word is the highest standard. It tells us exactly what we're supposed to do and that's what we're gonna follow and if uh and and I don't believe that you can get any more wisdom than that.

I I've talked to a number of uh as I said, good hearted uh Christian attorneys who uh who who become uh in my opinion, they become wise in their own eyes and they think that they're gonna trick the abortionists into uh uh into allowing uh a pro-life position to exist and again, 47 years ought to tell you it's just not going to happen.

It's not gonna happen and so I feel that our our uh you know, the types of legislation that we need to be bringing right now need to be uncompromised and they need to be immediate. Uh we we want.

An end to this evil practice right now, right? And uh uh I'm pretty sure that you and I've had this conversation. I know I've had it with other folks as well but you're talking about the the more immediate position.

The you'll hear the word abolitionist position and and the conversation that I've had. If you take that abolition abolitionist position to uh to a representative, if you if you take it to the state level, if you take it to the the federal level, um it's kind of you'll find folks that that may agree with you but they are they're not very receptive because um they uh they know that it's not going to go over well as as a bill.

They're not going to get very much traction um in their office and and um and so they settle for the more compromised legislation, more compromised bill but the reason why I like personhood alliance is you don't let that defeat you.

You say, okay, I believe that the immediate view is right. I believe that the abolitionist view is is more correct. So, if I can't take it to my legislation because they're the ones that have the voice and the power to vote.

If I can't take it there, where can I take it? And so, personal personhood alliance is telling you where you can take that position and have traction. Absolutely. I think that's.

Really well stated. Uh again, in order to show my my my state representative for Yadkin County was too cowardly for the very reasons that you mentioned. He was frightened of all this, you know, backlash that he felt he might get if he took a pair of personhood thing saying, you know, life begins at conservation.

Well, I certainly believe that but I could never, I could never forward a bill like that. I mean, that's that would be, you know, the end of me if you want. It says, no, the people in your in your district here here in Yadkinville, this is how we believe.

We'll, we would support you if you would uh if you would do this at a at a state level. Mm hmm. Uh he was simply too frightened and uh which is not uncommon for politicians. I find them all to be mostly uh uh again, lacking in any kind of bravery or courage.

They're they're well-spoken people. Um they're good communicators but at their core, they uh you will find that there aren't a whole lot of very brave politicians. Mm hmm. But uh what I was able to say is is alright.

Well, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go show you that the people in your district, the people who who you represent actually do feel this way and we'll support this and so we took it to a very local saying, alright, just in our county and we got a unanimous decision at a county level to become a sanctuary for unborn children saying and and the resolution basically says this is is you can't, you can't kill children here in our county.

You might be able to do it in Raleigh or you might get away with it in Greensboro or Charlotte or wherever else but you can't do it right here and uh and so you take the fight local and you win local and and my my goal at this point, I've taken a look at the uh at the map of uh of North Carolina and my view is that I can I can win this same fight in about 90 counties at the very least and at that point, we'll have some you know, much more political clout and when I go to Raleigh and say, you know, we want you to consider something.

I got 90 counties and 90 boards who all we believe this stuff. This is what we want you to do and uh and hopefully those are the kind of things that begin to build courage in these people who have none at this point and uh and that's what we're trying.

To do. That's right and and part of the reason for this video is to encourage folks. Jesus is at work. He's moving and you know, don't be timid. Don't be anxious. Don't be afraid. He he's working and he's moving.

Um alright. So to to kind of hit us in the direction of wrapping things up, let's get to the nuts and bolts and some practical things. The first one is what are the what are or what is the three-step strategy?

Um if you'll explain number one, safe city. Yeah,.

The the first the first step is to pass a resolution in the in the side of city, a town, a county, some locality, something that uh that exists out there where you say inside this area, the people here are willing to make a powerful proclamation on par with the Declaration of Independence because that's all it was.

Keep in mind the Declaration of Independence. While it's a great document, it was nothing more than a few guys in a room saying this is what we believe uh and that same thing is what you do with a resolution.

You get your county leaders together. You go to them and say, I want you to make this this strong, powerful public statement. If you pass it as a resolution, they can't be sued. They can't be sued by the ACLU.

It doesn't the ACLU may hate it but they can't do anything about it because they're using their first amendment rights simply to say we really believe this stuff and that's all it is. It's a resolution inside a city, a county, whatever and that's the very first step.

It's the easiest one to uh to accomplish and that's why it's number one but somebody has to take the lead. It typically takes at least one bulldog of a person inside a county who's willing to at least carry the ball and say, I wanna get this done in my locality.

That's what you do. You make your powerful proclamation. You will find in the process that you can you can gain all kinds of uh you can build all kinds of coalitions. I mean, there are plenty of churches and pastors and businesses, Christian businesses that are out there who are looking for somebody to lead a charge on something like this.

They just like that. I don't know, you know, they feel helpless and they're looking for somebody who's willing to lead the charge. So, this gives them that uh that energy and you'll find you can build a very quick coalition of pro-life uh uh pro-bible uh believers that will uh that will pass a uh a resolution saying, we're creating a sanctuary and we don't care what the state says.

You can't do certain things in our county or in our city or in our township. Heck, you know, if you wanna make it, boil it down to your uh uh you know, homeowners association or whatever. I mean, there's no limit to how small and how local it can become, right?

We we're we're encouraging anybody can do this. It doesn't take a whole lot of energy. We've got the the the resolutions already written out. All we gotta do is we got on PDF. We change the name and it's got all the legalese, got all the the whereas and uh and the therefore is in it.

So, uh it's it's a simple and easy process but that is step one. Okay.

What about step two? Activate community. Alright. Once you've.

Built this coalition and you've you've you've made a statement and that's all you've done. Your county, everyone will feel, there'll be a great, you know, euphoria that goes through. People will be excited but that's just part of it because the reality is, you're saying to all the the the surrounding counties is, you know, hey, hey, you know, uh mothers, fathers that are that are out there that are considering abortion.

Come here. We will rescue you. We'll we'll be a sanctuary for your unborn child. Come here. We'll support whatever kind of needs that you have and that's where where we we truly believe that we've gotta have the pregnancy care centers involved in this process and get the churches to locally begin to support the works that are done.

There are good pregnancy care centers in most counties and uh and and tie them together to say, we've got the support structure. So, you know, we're not gonna, it's not just a matter with for us, you know, to to make sure we we notch our belt and say, well, we we saved one more.

We gotta, we have to realize as as churches that we gotta plug these people into a community in order to help them throughout the whole process of raising those children up uh and and and building a godly community around them and and so it goes to that level.

It talks about even in the step two that churches become much more uh involved in local government to at least um counsel them on places where they may unwittingly be giving mixed signals and supporting uh the idea or the concept of abortion where they don't even look at it that way but you have those conversations and so now you're building a culture of life inside the inside the uh the county inside the city uh by having these conversations as as part of that.