April 17, 2019 Show with Dr. Scott Basolo on “Church Planting: The Value & Process of Multiplying & Spreading the Flock of Christ”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living globally, listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on the 17th day of April 2019.

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And I am thrilled to have a first -time guest today through the enthusiastic urging of my friend

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Andrew Rappaport of Striving for Eternity Ministries, and this guest happens to be his friend

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Dr. Scott Bassolo, who is the former director of admissions at the

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Master's Seminary, former elder at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, where John MacArthur is the senior pastor.

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He is the former senior pastor at Christ Fellowship Baptist Church in Mobile, Alabama, where Dr.

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Stephen Lawson used to be the pastor. And now, Dr. Scott Bassolo is the senior pastor at the

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Master's Church of Bucks County, Pennsylvania, which is a Grace Advance church plant.

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And today we're going to be discussing church planting, the value and process of multiplying and spreading the flock of Christ, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

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Scott Bassolo. Well, thank you, Chris. It is a rich privilege to be with you and with your listeners today and to talk about the passion of my heart in the church and Christ's work in it.

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So again, thank you so much. Well, if you could, before we get into the theme, and before we get into, even before that, a summary of your salvation testimony, which we typically do when we have a first -time guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, tell us about the

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Master's Church of Bucks County, Pennsylvania. Oh, it would be my delight. Well, the Master's Church of Bucks County is a new work here in Bucks County.

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We are meeting at the Richboro Senior Center, which is actually technically called the

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Council Rock Senior Center, and our meetings currently are Sunday afternoons, as we'll be moving to the morning slot first part of June.

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So that's a little bit of our physical location. We are a group of individuals here from Bucks County who had been striving to find a good place to worship and a place where there was solid and sound doctrine, and they were struggling mightily with that endeavor, having to travel almost an hour from where we are, just northeast

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Philadelphia here, in order to find a church that they felt like had the doctrinal solidity that they were searching for.

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So in an effort to meet the need that they believe existed here in the community, and I believe absolutely did exist in the community prior to our origination, they came together and formulated an application to Grace Community Church and to the

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Grace Advanced Church Planning Program to join them and have endeavored, having their application received about January of last year, to pursue a location and a pastor, and have continued to expand their small band into a solid core group, and all of that has moved forward and progressed.

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We are today established. I had the privilege of being called by this group of folks, the

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Master's Church, and by Grace Advanced to pastor them at the beginning of the year, and then formally started just a few weeks back, and have just delighted in the opportunity to shepherd this group.

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We have been blessed to see our church expanding, and kind of family by family, in fact, we've often marveled that the

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Lord has brought a new family almost every week to our church that are, you know, they're checking it out and kind of looking into all of the parameters, and we're excited about what the

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Lord's doing here in Bucks County. Praise God. Well, I'm assuming that since this church is a plant of the

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Grace Advanced, that you would have a lot in common. I'm not saying that you at all deny the precious pillar of the

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Protestant Reformation, Sola Scriptura, but at the same time, even though we all believe that the

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Scriptures alone are our sole, inerrant, and infallible authority for the church, we still have men of God, both from the past and present, from whom we glean a lot of rich theology and teaching, and a lot of benefit by trying to follow in their footsteps in some way.

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So I'm assuming that the Master's Church of Bucks County would be resembling a lot of what you hear from the pulpit of Dr.

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John MacArthur as far as the theology, as far as the practice of the church, and so on.

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Not that you're a cookie cutter, but I'm assuming that there's some great influence there. Well, there is. I have been abundantly blessed to serve at Grace Community Church, to be educated at the

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Master's Seminary, and to have had great privilege to interact with Pastor John.

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Our theology and doctrinal statement is essentially in lockstep with Grace Community Church, that is one of the facets of their church planning ministry, is to establish doctrine amongst small groups like ours, to help create a financial plan, although they remain separate financially from our organization, and then to help find a man to come in and preach.

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Although I never will be a tenth of the preacher of Pastor John, I am very thankful to at least have been able to glean from him, and to know him, and to have sat at his feet for a number of years, and seek to honor the

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Word in the way that he does, although indeed the Lord has gifted him very uniquely for such a task.

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And I'm grateful also to be able to follow in his footsteps. Praise God. Well, he is one of my modern -day heroes, and in fact,

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I'd ask you and the listeners to pray. My friend Phil Johnson, the Executive Director at Grace to You, who has been my guest on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio more frequently than any other guest

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I've ever interviewed, he is in the process of trying to arrange a second interview with Dr.

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John MacArthur here on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio. I've only had the privilege to have Dr. MacArthur on once when we were broadcasting out of New York on our old show, on our old

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Iron Sherpa and Zion show, and that was surely an extraordinary blessing, but we are hoping to get him back on, and so please pray that that comes to fruition, and that I hear good news from Phil Johnson about that in the near future.

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I would be delighted to, and I know your guests would be, again, doubly blessed to have

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Pastor John speak to you about all that the Lord has done through him and laid on his heart, and all that the two of you may be able to discuss.

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Now, could you tell us a bit more about Grace Advance, which I know has been involved in planting churches all over the

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United States? Yeah, Grace Advance is a very, I think, singularly unique ministry, and that's saying something amidst all of the church -planting ministries around our country, and some good ones at that.

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I'm well -known, I know very well several of the men in different organizations, but the thing that Grace Advance does that I think sets them apart so uniquely is, the first thing that they do is they identify the doctrinal landscape in the communities that are seeking from them to have them assist in church -planting endeavors.

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So they look at the different churches that are in the area, because they're not interested in going into a community that has several good, solid,

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Bible -believing churches that are reflecting a similar doctrine, and simply add another choice.

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I love hearing that, because unfortunately, you have churches that plant churches right in the midst of an area where there are other solid churches, and it just winds up that the new church very often is just growing numerically by being a vacuum cleaner to the other congregations that are nearby.

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That's right, and we unfortunately have much too much of a church -hopping culture, and so Grace is very careful not to further that type of an endeavor.

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And instead, they look at the community and assess whether or not there is a true need for a church with the doctrinal foundation that does reflect that, similar to Grace Community Church and other good

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Reformed churches of that same theological position.

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And after they've established that, and they have a group that has come to them, then they assess the group individually.

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Do they seem to have the ability to move forward with the church plant? One of those things they do is they first off review their theological background, and they assess very carefully what their theological perspectives are, to see if in fact they are in line, and I don't believe that it is something, although our church is essentially in lockstep with Grace Community Church and their doctrinal statement,

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I don't know that it would have to be absolutely point -by -point. Obviously there could be some minor variations that they would allow, but then they interact with those individuals about those points, particularly any that there may be any discrepancy to discuss, and therein establish a doctrinal statement for the new work to set that theology and set that foundation.

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Because as you know, it's all about the Word. We are all about the Word of God, and where there is any weakness, where there is any compromise, that compromise is going to manifest and multiply, and we're going to start to see the church go the way of, unfortunately, many other churches that at one point were more doctrinally sound, and so they're very careful from that theological position.

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And having assessed that theology and the need in the community, then they begin to establish what the tangible needs of the church will be moving forward, and they help the church design and prepare a budget that they will need for some certain years in the future so that they know that there is a stability amongst the church plant.

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Now, I also find this unique and very important because there is such a challenge for groups to want to coattail off of some megachurch somewhere and to have them be the financial support, and unfortunately that's a fallacy that we see even in many missions organizations.

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And so Grace does not come in and provide financial support of any means. They rely upon the core group to, once that budget has been established, to verify that they are able to meet that budget for several years in the future so that there is a strength and stability that they're ready to move forward in.

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And those three premises really become kind of the three pillars of the stool on which the

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Grace Advance Church platform is built. Now, once those are all in place, then

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Grace Advance assigns elders from Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California to be formal sitting elders in that plant so that as they find a man to come in to shepherd the flock, there is already a plurality of elders in place.

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Now, of course, the first need of the church is to begin to develop leadership and to see the men that God may perhaps have gifted and called to the office of elder and to make certain that they are rightly trained and vetted and ordained then into those seats.

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But until that time happens, you have men who are solid and functioning in an incredibly effective elder -led church at Grace Community who have taken on the additional responsibility to help shepherd churches around the country.

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So it really becomes an incredible platform for success and for the gospel to begin to move forward.

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Praise God. Well, I'm going to be, God willing, repeating this information later, but just in case someone has to leave the program before it's over,

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I want to make sure that I initially at least give the websites for not only the church where Scott Bassolo is the senior pastor, but also for Grace Advance.

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The Master's Church in Bucks County, Pennsylvania can be found at themasterschurch .org,

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themasterschurch .org. And Grace Advance can be found at graceadvance .org,

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graceadvance .org. So now, as I said before, Pastor Scott or Dr.

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Scott. Pastor is just fine, thanks, Chris. Well, I'd like you to give a summary of your salvation testimony, what kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were raised in, and what kind of providential circumstances that our

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Lord raised up, our Sovereign Lord, brought about in your life that drew you to Himself and saved you.

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Wow, well, I have somewhat of a unique testimony. I guess we all do.

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The Lord works with each of us in His own special way. I did not grow up in a solid

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Christian home, as many pastors do, and sometimes I lament that, but I know that the

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Lord has divinely ordained all these circumstances. I had wonderful, loving parents who did take us to church.

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Unfortunately, they were just church attenders and professors and not possessors of faith at that young age.

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That manifested itself early on with a divorce that occurred when

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I was about eight years old. That divorce and the splitting up of my mom and dad sent my dad to another state.

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I was born in Montana. He moved to Idaho, and we were able to visit in the summer, which

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I thought was wonderful because the community I grew up in, southwest Montana, was very conservative.

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We could certainly use the word redneck and be right on point. We were children who had crew cuts and Levi's and cowboy boots and none other.

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In fact, I remember at a young age asking my dad if we could wear shorts because we were going to be in the

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Fourth of July parade, my two brothers and I, and he relented and agreed that shorts would probably be okay since we were walking a few miles through fairly hot heat.

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So there we were, the picture of us dressed up as Snoopy and Linus and me as Charlie Brown pulling the wagon in our crew cuts and cowboy boots and shorts.

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It's a perfect picture, which I hope you don't ever see. We started to go to Idaho in the summer, a little community called

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Sun Valley, a ski resort community, and I thought that was wonderful. It was somewhat liberal, and I thought it was the greatest.

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As it turned out, a couple of years later, my mom and dad remarried, and I thought that was going to be great, too.

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However, there just was a little too much water under the bridge in their relationship, and they were not able to make it work.

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So about two or three years following that, they divorced again. I was in a community now here in Sun Valley that was liberal.

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There were a lot of kids smoking pot. We were a family who both sides of my mom and dad's family were not afraid to have a drink or two or three, and alcohol was quite available.

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So when my friends would come and do a sleepover on the weekend, we would dip in a bit to that. Of course,

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I decided I was never going to do the drug scene, and yet it wasn't but a few years, and there

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I was smoking marijuana and drinking. My dad working hard every day to try to provide for our family.

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My mom no longer being in the area. My brothers and I living with my dad created a situation where I kind of had the world as my oyster, and unfortunately

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I was sowing my oats and went off to college, and those only got more severe.

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I was engaged in many too many immoral activities, alcoholism.

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I don't know that I would have at that point called myself a drug addict, but I certainly used pretty much anything that somebody brought along that I didn't have to put in my arm.

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And that progressed, and I was blessed. The Lord allowed me to be able to continue and do well in education.

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I was studying architecture, and I decided to pick up another degree in engineering because I didn't care for the pay structure that the young architects were getting.

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And moving through my seven -year college career, and it was a career, and thought

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I was doing pretty well at it until the student loans came in, but that's another story. So near the end of my college, my brother was killed in a skiing accident at 19.

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Oh, no. And that really set me on my ear. I found myself back at home in Sun Valley trying to smoke and drink myself out of the pain of that event.

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And it was at this time that I met my wife on a blind date, actually, on the way back to college after my brother's passing.

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And we began to date. I was working at that time in a bar up in northern

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Idaho where I was going to school, and it was a unique thing to meet

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Karen. I had graduated and decided that I wanted to go to California to work.

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Primarily, I desired to go to San Francisco because my uncle is there, and it's a rich city from a place to visit.

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I was able to get work there. However, once I got there,

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I hated it. I was the little kid from the sticks in the big city, and the traffic was absurd to me, and all

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I wanted to do when I got home was order a pizza and stay away from all the people on the freeway.

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And I put on about 50 pounds, was there for six months, and said to Karen, who

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I had coaxed into coming to live with me, although I had not done the right thing by her family and by her, despite her solid upbringing in the

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Lord. And I told her after six months, I said, I'm going back to Idaho, and I don't care if I dig ditch and teach skiing the rest of my life.

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I'm never going to California again. And so we went back, we got married.

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I was back in my own stomping ground with all my old buddies. I'd moved her from Boise to this little community,

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Sun Valley, and I was sowing again most of these same wild oats.

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My wife had never engaged in those kind of activities, and she was fairly miserable.

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We were at odds with one another. In fact, it was just about six months into our marriage as I asked her to come and meet me at the ski hill, because that was my activity,

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I skied every day at lunch, that I wanted a divorce. And she pled with me not to divorce her.

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She is a wonderful, godly, strong -willed woman, and I think until the day I stand before our dear

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Lord will I perhaps be able to understand why she did that.

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Anyway, I agreed. We decided that children would make everything better, so we would start to have some kids, and the

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Lord knew better and took us through eight years of infertility that just about tore us apart.

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And it was at the blessing of our two sons that came very quickly after that extended time of infertility that Karen said that we needed to get the kids to church.

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And I had had several religious experiences. I had had a

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Presbyterian church that we went to when I was a small boy, the pastor of whom was, after my parents' divorce, was counseling my mom and hitting on her.

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And we left that church. We moved to a little apartment before Idaho, and I wanted to go to Cub Scouts and ended up in a

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Catholic troop, because that was only about two blocks away, and they wanted me to start coming to catechism before they would allow me to continue.

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And I said, you know, I don't think so. I'm here for the Scouts. And it was shortly thereafter we moved to Idaho, and I again wanted to get into Scouts, and the troop right up the street was one of the many

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Mormon troops, the LDS troops there in the area. I didn't even know that they segregated over religion in the

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Scouts. Well, they really don't, but in Idaho particularly, the

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Mormons have a pretty strong hold on the Scouting program. There are very few troops that are not directly associated with the

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Mormon church. And there is such a strong, or at least was when I was in Scouting, such a strong presence towards God and a lot of focus on that, even

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God and country, special awards and so forth. So the

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LDS troop, they wanted me to start coming to seminary, as they called it for the high school kids in the morning, and they wanted to do family home visits at our home.

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And I told my dad that, and he said, that'll be great. Send them over. We'll teach them how to drink. I said, that's going to go too good.

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And so I left that troop, and then my next religious experience after the

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Presbyterians and Catholics and the Mormons, although not to be lumped in the same group, please keep in mind.

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But nonetheless, these individuals was a small Baptist church that my wife asked me to go to partway through our infertility.

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We hadn't been there but about two weeks, and the pastor wanted to come visit. And he wasn't in our house but about 15 minutes when he asked me where my tithing check was.

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And I was ready to strain him through the screen door. Wow. And I said, you know, I've had it with religion.

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I've dealt with the adulterous Presbyterian pastor, I've dealt with the Catholics and the

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Mormons, and now this idiot Baptist. I am never going to have anything to do with religion. And so our children are born, and Karen asked if I wouldn't consider consenting to go with her to church.

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And I said, you know, as long as you find a place that doesn't have this other idiot and all these other individuals,

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I'll go. I said, I don't need to go, you know, but I'm still at this point still smoking pot, 20 -some years at this point.

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My engineering business is doing very well, but I just can't seem to get away from that, and that's causing all kinds of strife in our marriage.

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I'm lying about it to my wife, and of course you can smell anybody that's been participating in that from about 50 yards away.

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And, you know, I said, I don't want my kids to go through this. I do remember fondly Sunday school and singing in the kids' choir as a young boy.

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So you find a place and I'll go. So the second Sunday of January in 1998, after the birth of our second son, we go to this little

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Bible church just a quarter mile from our home, kind of out in the sticks outside of Sun Valley.

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And we walk in, and I've lived in this community for 35 years, and the elders' eyes are like saucers, and they're grabbing for the wall, wanting to know, what is this guy doing here?

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Because they've all known me very well. And it's a small congregation, about 40 to 50 people, and we end up on the front row, and the pastor preaches on Galatians 5, 1, 2, 15.

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And as he preaches, I'm sitting there thinking, you know, he just keeps talking to me. There's all these people here, and he just keeps talking to me.

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Well, I was way too prideful to tell my wife about that, but I said, I guess we'll go back the next week and see what that was all about.

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And being a faithful expositor, the next week we go into Galatians 5, 16 to 26, and the deeds of the flesh and the fruit of the

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Spirit. And I am feeling like I am pinned to the wall of the church with Goliath's spear, exposed and undone in my sin, and I know

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I've got a serious problem. And the Lord was gracious to continue to reveal that sin to me and to show me the power and truth of Jesus Christ and the necessity for my repentance and my reckoning of where my life had been and where it needed to be.

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So I began to grow and continue in that church, and God graciously gave me the privilege to grow quickly, and one thing led to another, and it wasn't long before I was on my way to seminary.

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Now, what was it that, in your opinion or in your deeply felt belief, what was it that rose up within you that you knew

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God was calling you to become a pastor? Well, after I had gotten out of college and moved back to Idaho, I started working with the

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Scouts again, because I was an Eagle Scout from that troop, and it was the same leadership from when

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I was there, and many of these men are in their upper 70s and 80s. So I'd worked with the

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Scouts for a number of years, and when I got saved, the pastor asked me if I wanted to start helping logistically, not spiritually, with some of the youth activities, and I agreed.

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We were broadening the youth program. There were actually four small churches working together because none of us had a large enough group of kids to have a youth group, and that broadened from a one -time -a -year event for our community churches to a four -time -a -year event and eventually a year -and -a -half or so later to actually a weekly study.

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And at that time, I had been asked to start teaching a junior high Sunday school and had been privileged to stumble into Ken Ham's Answers in Genesis curriculum, which, as you know, anyone who studies it to teach learns more than he ever could convey to those to whom he's teaching.

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That's right. And I was just absolutely overwhelmed at what

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I was reading and hearing and growing in. And soon after that, the pastor asked me to do an internship with him, and I agreed.

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We decided it would be a four -year program, and about a year -and -a -half into it, he came to me and said he and his wife were being called to another field.

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So I had engaged in an online study at Moody in order to complete part of that internship, and I abandoned that and went full tilt towards completing the 60 -point internship program, and he departed.

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I was now running the weekly youth group for several of these churches. One of the churches also did not have a pastor, so I was preaching there once a month or so.

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Our church could only afford to bring a pastor in from Twin Falls or Boise a couple times a month, so I was preaching at our church fairly regularly.

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And the church that didn't have a pastor asked me to be their shepherd, asked me if I would consider applying for the position of their pastorate, and I desperately wanted to do it.

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This was a group of people I'd known my whole life. It was a quaint little old

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American Baptist church from our part of the world in Idaho there, built in the late 1880s, which was a very old structure.

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And I just desperately wanted to do that, but as I prayed and sought the

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Lord, I realized that after now four -plus years of salvation, I could not stand before Christ and tell

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Him that I had done everything I could to feed His flock. And so I knew I needed seminary.

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Now, when you say American Baptist church, are you specifically talking about the denomination? It was.

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They had kind of left those denominational confines, and they were just a church that carried that label but were not doctrinally connected.

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Right, because as some of our listeners may know, but maybe many do not, the

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American Baptist denomination has become very liberal, although there are some conservative

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Bible -believing holdouts that remain within that denomination, those that still hold on to the inerrancy of Scripture and to the pillars of the

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Christian faith. My friend John Thornberry, who is retired from pastoral ministry, he is a really amazing church historian and author, but he was for many years pastoring an

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American Baptist Association church, but he resisted as long as he could against any liberalism.

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His congregation was very conservative and confessionally Calvinistic, and finally they did leave before he retired.

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Yeah, well, this church also did finally depart from that group, but there was very little influence because they were so remote to the rest of the denomination, and they had, to my way of understanding, very little, if any, direct connectivity.

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So anyway, that was something I wanted to do and could not, and decided that I needed to go to seminary, and so basically closed my engineering practice, having found the

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Master Seminary, and remembering keenly my comment from my

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California days that I was never coming back to California, and loaded off my wife and family, and we were off to Beverly.

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Well, we have to go to our first break right now, and when we return we will launch right into our theme today, which is actually on church planting, to refresh the memories of those listening.

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The theme is Church Planting, the Value and Process of Multiplying and Spreading the Flock of Christ.

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If you have questions on that issue, and basically any theological issue that you want to ask, but we'll be primarily speaking on church planting, our email address is chrizarnsen at gmail .com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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And speaking of church planting, the first ad that you're going to hear in the first station break is a new church plant that is being shepherded by my dear friend

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Bill Shishko, who for many years was the pastor of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Franklin Square, Long Island, New York.

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He retired from that position and went into domestic missionary work through a ministry underneath the oversight of the

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Orthodox Presbyterian denomination. And just recently, I believe just two weeks ago, has planted a new church called

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The Haven in Deer Park, Long Island, New York. And here is Bill Shishko to tell you more about it.

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I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, host of A Visit to the Pastor's Study, and I am so thankful to be part of the advertising family right here on Iron Sharpens Iron.

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If you live on Long Island or if you're visiting the metropolitan New York area, I invite you to join us for worship at The Haven on Sundays at 4 .30

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p .m. We meet at the Ascension Lutheran Church facility, 33 Bayshore Road in Deer Park, New York.

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At The Haven, you'll find God -saturated singing, gospel -rich ministry, and great commission opportunities.

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Learn more about us at thehavenli .com, and join us this Sunday at 4 .30

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p .m., 33 Bayshore Road, Deer Park, New York. Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

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You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

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They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

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We are now back with our guest today, Dr. Scott Basolo. And by the way, am

44:32

I pronouncing your last name correctly? Am I putting the emphasis on the right syllable? I think you're doing excellent,

44:39

Chris, so stay right with it. All right, great. And for those of you who just tuned in, Dr.

44:44

Scott Basolo is the former director of admissions at the Master's Seminary, former elder at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, where John MacArthur is the senior pastor, former senior pastor at Christ Fellowship Baptist Church in Mobile, Alabama, after Dr.

45:02

Stephen Lawson had left the pulpit there to pursue One Passion Ministries.

45:08

And Dr. Scott Basolo is now the senior pastor at the

45:13

Master's Church of Bucks County, Pennsylvania, a grace -advanced church plant.

45:19

And we are discussing church planting, the value and process of multiplying and spreading the flock of Christ.

45:25

If you have a question of your own, our e -mail address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

45:32

Please give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

45:41

So, Dr. Scott, I think it might be wise to start with mistakes that many

45:50

Christians and many churches may make when they are seeking to plant the church.

45:58

I know that there are people who, without any cooperation of other churches or other pastors or other denominations or other brotherhoods or fellowships, they just think to themselves, you know,

46:10

I think that I know the Bible pretty well and I love public speaking and I do have a heart to care for people.

46:18

I think I'm going to start a church. And they just start renting a facility and a few of their friends may join them or some disgruntled members of another church may join them.

46:28

But I'm assuming that is not really the way to go about planting a church, is it? No, it absolutely is not.

46:34

And I mean, not only does the Scripture warn against such things where James tells us, let not many of you become teachers, for you will incur a stricter condemnation, but to understand as well that, as Hebrews says, that we'll each, as those who shepherd

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God's flock, be held accountable. And it's a very dangerous situation, and the problem really becomes that they do not have the foundational preparation, in most cases, in order to lead

47:10

God's flock, and therein they end up oftentimes leading them astray. And I'm assuming you would agree that one has to be very careful that a vengeful spirit is not involved in planting a new church because of something that you're displeased with from a former church.

47:30

I mean, there are good reasons and bad reasons, true reasons and false reasons, godly reasons and sinful reasons to leave a church.

47:38

It's not always the right thing to do and it's not always the bad thing to do. Sometimes it's a necessary thing to do, but don't you think that we have to make sure, with much prayer and counsel from brothers in Christ and even pastors, pastoral peers, that we are not doing so out of some kind of vengeful spirit, perhaps to see if we can sheep -steal or steal sheep, however you want to phrase that, from a former church, etc.

48:08

We have to be very careful about that kind of thing, don't we? Absolutely, Chris. I mean, the dangers involved in one individual moving forward particularly are so prevalent in that type of situation, and they're often well -handled when the church plan involves a multiple group of people.

48:30

And that isn't always the case. There still can be that negative spirit that can come in, but as you say, counseling with others and understanding what the particular perspectives are, and I have often counseled people,

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I said, you know, it's not that there are no reasons to leave a church, but I believe primarily there is one.

48:52

There are doctrinal errors within that church, and you have sought to identify and illuminate those errors to the leadership so as to change and correct those problems, and that your further pursuit of those doctrinal errors is going to result in divisiveness to the church.

49:16

And it is at that point that I believe you're compelled to go. Unfortunately, you know, we leave the church over color of carpet, music that we don't like, or any number of other things, and those can be the foundations by which we feel like we need to start other churches, and that is absolutely not the right way to go about planning a church.

49:39

Well, having said what you did, I'm assuming, of course, color of carpet should never be a reason, but you might be in a church that makes a decision, we are going to start to have very heavy rock music in our worship services.

50:00

You might be in a situation where the church says, you know, we're going to have every Sunday worship hip -hop music, or whatever the thing is that you are personally convicted that this is not proper for a worship setting.

50:16

And wouldn't you say that in those kind of cases, that music would be a legitimate reason to say,

50:23

I'm sorry, I just cannot in good conscience remain here, I love you all, and have valued my friendship with all of you, etc.,

50:33

but I do believe that my family and I have to depart and find somewhere else. I mean, wouldn't you say in that kind of circumstances it would be okay?

50:41

I think that there is some ground for that, Chris. The key, I believe, to it is, has the new path or track that the church has taken become one that is no longer honoring to the

50:56

Lord? And we have to be very careful because music is so personal, music is often very divisive.

51:03

At the same time, I think it is quite evident when we see that there is a change in the tone of music from that which is truly worshipping our

51:14

Lord, when the words are no longer those which are bringing glory to Christ and glory to God, then those absolutely, and if that venue and the medium that's carrying that music also adds and confuses that because you can't hear the words over the, you know, whatever the particular background may be, that that very much does become a doctrinal constraint.

51:39

And I would say even in those cases, the first step is to go to the leadership and say, let's talk about why we're doing what we're doing, and to try to help them see, because God does put each person in the church specifically and gifts them for the work of the ministry.

51:57

And so then it's important that you do seek to try to use your gifts and your abilities to move the church towards, if they're beginning to veer from a doctrinally solid position, even be it music, that you would try to illuminate that prior to departure.

52:19

And then, as you say, absolutely, when that departure, there's no other path for that than to go illuminating your love for those people and wishing your best upon them, and not going in a spirit of vengeance and I'm going to show you kind of thing.

52:36

No, no, something that you just said there, the very last words, don't you think that the manner with which someone leaves a church and perhaps either searches out another church or even if they are in a position where they can plant a church in a biblical and godly fashion, the manner of departing your former church can be just as important as the reason.

53:04

For instance, the change might not be in the church, the change might be in the person who has come to embrace a biblical truth that they formerly did not believe.

53:16

They may have been formerly an Arminian Christian who came to embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace and feel that they need to move on, or they may have been a charismatic or Pentecostal Christian who has developed a conviction of cessationism, or whatever the case may be.

53:36

And even us who are believers in the doctrines of sovereign grace, as much as we may be saddened by those leaving us because they've developed different convictions that may be within the periphery or in the realm of biblical soundness, but they just disagree with us in certain areas, they may have become exclusive psalmody advocates or something like that where they don't feel right or biblically correct to sing extra biblical hymns, whatever the case is, and they feel a need to leave, we have to be careful also that we do not be overly harsh with them if they leave and depart with love, with graciousness, because to violate your conscience is a sin, is it not?

54:28

It is. Scripture says that who believes that it is sin is a sin to them, so absolutely.

54:35

Now, I'm assuming that you would think that the best reason for a church plant to even take place is when a biblically faithful congregation and its leaders call a person from among them, whether it's someone they just believe is gifted enough from amongst the congregation to launch this new work, or it could be even one of the elders, it might even be the senior pastor who believes that the church is now in safe hands with the other elders, or another pastor that has been called, and he believes that he can move on.

55:13

But the most healthy way, and the best way, ultimately, isn't it not when a healthy, biblically faithful church wants to multiply and spread the flock of Christ, as our title insinuates, to just bless other areas geographically with what they believe they have come to possess in their own congregation?

55:36

Yeah, absolutely. I think that is the ideal way for church planting to occur, because you have a connectivity of individuals, you have a solidity with the leader, and an existing leadership that can move forward in that work, and that is an excellent mechanism by which church planting can take place.

56:02

Well, we are now at the point where, believe it or not, we have to go to our midway break.

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This is a longer break than normal, because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida, who airs

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Iron Trip and Zion Radio twice daily in a pre -recorded format, they need this middle section of the show to localize

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Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, by airing their own public service announcements and commercials, while we air our globally heard commercials.

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So please take this time and use it wisely to write down the information provided by our advertisers, because that will enable you to more frequently and successfully patronize our advertisers whenever possible, and of course that will further the probability of Iron Trip and Zion Radio existing into the future, because, as I said earlier, we depend upon our advertisers to keep this program alive.

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So please write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can patronize them successfully and more frequently, and also use this time to write down questions for our guest today,

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Dr. Scott Basolo, in regard to church planting or even in a broader sphere of questions involving theology.

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Perhaps you are a new believer and you have many questions about different areas. Perhaps you're not even a

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Christian at all. We would love to hear from you, especially if that is the case. Or perhaps you're a pastor and you need some advice about something going on in your own congregation or with a church plant that you are prayerfully pursuing.

57:45

Well, just send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail dot com. And as always, give us your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the

57:55

USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away.

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Thank you. Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

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My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

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You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

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They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

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01:07:58

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours, with a little less than an hour to go, is

01:08:05

Dr. Scott Basolo. He is former director of admissions at the Master's Seminary, former elder at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, where John MacArthur is the senior pastor.

01:08:16

He is the former senior pastor at Christ Fellowship Baptist Church in Mobile, Alabama, where he ascended into that role after Dr.

01:08:27

Stephen Lawson retired from pastoral ministry and pursued itinerant evangelism full -time with his work at One Passion Ministries.

01:08:38

Today, Dr. Scott Basolo is the senior pastor at the Master's Church of Bucks County, Pennsylvania, a

01:08:45

Grace -advanced church plant. We are discussing church planting, the value and process of multiplying and spreading the flock of Christ.

01:08:51

If you have a question regarding church planting or any other theological issue that you'd like to ask, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

01:08:59

chrisarnzen at gmail .com. And as always, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

01:09:05

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Before I return to our discussion with Dr.

01:09:13

Scott Basolo, we have a few announcements regarding upcoming events that we want you to attend, if at all possible, some of which

01:09:24

I am going to be attending as well. First of all, there is an event taking place next week,

01:09:33

Thursday, Friday, and Saturday of next week, April 25th, 26th, and 27th at the

01:09:40

Trinity Protestant Reformed Church of Hudsonville, Michigan. That is the

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Dort 400 Conference, Safeguarding the Reformed Tradition.

01:09:51

And I hope that you can attend that, especially if you live in the Hudsonville, Michigan area, or can easily get there, or at least get there by train, plane, or automobile, if you have the free time and the ability to get there.

01:10:07

We have a number of speakers at this conference, whom I have interviewed on this show, and some

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I have not yet interviewed, but look forward to interviewing. Professor Ronald Kaminga, who was a recent guest here on Iron Trip to Zion Radio, is on the roster.

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Professor Barrett Gritters, Reverend Brian Huizinga, who I hope to get on the show soon.

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Professor Doug Kuyper, who has been a guest on the program and is going to be, God willing, returning next month to be my guest again.

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Reverend Bill Langerak, and Reverend Mark Shand, and Reverend Angus Stewart, who it was a joy to interview not long ago.

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He is from Northern Ireland and pastors a church there, and he is going to be returning soon, God willing, to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

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If you would like to attend this conference, go to dort400 .org, dort400 .org,

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and DORT is spelled D as in David, O -R -D as in David T. You've got to remember to put that second

01:11:08

D in there, D -O -R -D -T -4 -0 -0 .org,

01:11:13

and you will have all the information that you need to attend the conference. Also, coming up very soon in May, I am having the next

01:11:24

Iron Trip and Zion Radio Spring Pastors Luncheon. This is for all men in ministry leadership, whether you are a pastor or an elder, and I believe those are the same office, by the way, a deacon, a power church leader, whatever kind of leadership position you hold.

01:11:41

If you are a man, you are welcome to attend the Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheon, and it's free of charge.

01:11:49

You'll not only be fed for free, but you will be hearing Dr. Tony Costa, who is the professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

01:12:00

You'll be hearing him give a lecture on how the Dead Sea Scrolls vindicate the reliability of the

01:12:07

Holy Scriptures. He is a genius, and he is really a powerful speaker and really a humble and wonderful brother in Christ.

01:12:15

You don't want to miss any opportunity that you can take advantage of to hear Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary.

01:12:22

If you would like to attend, this is going to be held on Thursday, May 23rd from 11 a .m. to 2 p .m.

01:12:28

here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall. Just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:12:35

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and I will register you for free for this event. And guess what? Everyone who attends is going to be leaving with a heavy sack of brand new books, absolutely free of charge, that have been donated by most of the major Christian publishers in the

01:12:51

United States and the United Kingdom. I select a title from each of these publishers, and they donate 100 copies of each title so that every man in attendance can leave with a copy of each of these books.

01:13:03

So you'll be leaving with a couple of dozen books at least, absolutely free of charge. There's no hidden agenda or ulterior motive behind the pastor's luncheons.

01:13:12

These were the brainchild of my precious late wife, Julie, who knew that I had more pastor friends than the normal person.

01:13:21

And in the early 1990s, she said, Why don't we, instead of exchanging Christmas gifts, use that money to treat your pastor friends to a

01:13:27

Christmas lunch? And I took her up on that suggestion, and the luncheons kept growing and growing and growing until we finally needed corporate sponsorship to help us pay for the luncheons.

01:13:39

And they continue to exist in the honor and memory of my precious wife after she has gone home to be with the

01:13:47

Lord for eternity. So I hope that you can attend the free luncheon. Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:13:53

to register. And Dr. Tony Costa will be speaking, God willing, at several churches on Long Island, New York, after he leaves

01:14:01

Pennsylvania when the luncheon is over. I will be following him to New York, and I will give you all the details you need on these churches if you would like that information as well.

01:14:12

He will be speaking Friday, Saturday, and Sunday at several different churches, I believe four different churches, and I will give you all the details.

01:14:21

Then, right after that, I am heading to Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, to Elizabethtown College for the

01:14:28

Banner of Truth East Coast Ministers Conference. It's on the theme, I Believe in the Holy Spirit. The speakers include

01:14:34

Jeff Kingswood, Terry Johnson, David Vaughn, Stephen Nichols, Michael Morales, and Chad Vegas.

01:14:40

That's May 28th through the 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania. Tuesday, May 28th, through Thursday, May 30th.

01:14:49

And for registration, go to banneroftruth .org, banneroftruth .org, and scroll down to the

01:14:55

East Coast Ministers Conference. And I hope to see you there. Please look for me if you attend. Ask around.

01:15:01

Say, do you know where Chris Arnson might be? Because I hope to see you there at the East Coast Ministers Conference, run by the

01:15:08

Banner of Truth, May 28th through the 30th, in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania. Then after that, one of my favorite conferences that I've grown to love is the

01:15:17

Foundations Conference, a conference of sermonaudio .com. The Foundations Conference is being held again in the heart of New York City in Manhattan on December 19th and 20th.

01:15:31

And once again, they have an extraordinary lineup of speakers. Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, who you just heard moments ago advertising

01:15:38

New Covenant Church NYC, a sponsor of this program. He is the founder of One Passion Ministries and one of the finest preachers on the planet

01:15:47

Earth. Paul Washer, another phenomenal preacher. If you haven't heard Paul Washer yet, you should really take advantage of every opportunity to hear

01:15:56

Paul. He is dynamic and so biblically solid and so powerful. Reverend Jeff Thomas, another one of my favorite preachers from Wales.

01:16:05

He's retired from the ministry, the pastoral ministry in Wales, and is now dedicating his life to itinerant evangelism and writing, and he is really a phenomenon himself.

01:16:17

Reverend Armand Tomassian, who I believe is going to be a household name, especially amongst Reformed Christians over the next decade.

01:16:23

He is a young man with gifts and abilities far beyond his youth, and I truly urge you to hear

01:16:32

Reverend Armand Tomassian if you hear about him speaking anywhere, including at the Foundations Conference.

01:16:38

And I'm looking forward to hearing, for the first time, Richard Caldwell Jr. and Anthony Quigley, who I have not yet heard preach, but I'm sure that they are excellent if Sermon Audio has selected them for this conference.

01:16:49

For more information, go to thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com,

01:16:56

and I would urge you to register quickly because the venue in Manhattan where this conference is being held is somewhat small, can only hold about 200 people, so this is sure to be filling up very quickly, so please try to register as soon as you can.

01:17:11

And last but not least, once again, I will be packing my bags in January and heading out to Atlanta, Georgia, to the

01:17:20

Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta, for the

01:17:27

G3 Conference 2020. I love the G3 Conference. Last time, they had well over 5 ,000 people in attendance at this conference, and I just can't wait to be there again, to man an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:17:44

Speakers include Kosti Hinn. Yes, that's right, Hinn, H -I -N -N.

01:17:49

He is the nephew of the notorious charlatan faith healer

01:17:56

Benny Hinn, and thanks be to God, Kosti has repented of his connection and affiliation with the

01:18:04

Word of Faith heresies. He has become not only a Reformed Baptist but a cessationist, and he is a pastor in California.

01:18:11

He is on the roster at the G3 Conference. In fact, I was the one who first told Josh Bice, who runs the

01:18:17

G3 Conference, I was the first one to tell him about Kosti Hinn. David Miller, what a fine preacher he is.

01:18:24

Derek Thomas, a name that is well -known to most Reformed Christians.

01:18:29

My dear friend of many years, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. Joel Beakey, the president of Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and prolific author.

01:18:41

The aforementioned Josh Bice, who is the founder of the G3 Conference and pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia.

01:18:50

Paul Washer, who I mentioned earlier, who is going to be speaking at another conference in Manhattan.

01:18:55

Stephen J. Lawson, again, is at this conference. And also,

01:19:01

Tom Askell. I just love my brother Tom Askell from Grace Baptist Church in Coral, Florida, who is also the director of Founders Ministries.

01:19:11

And Voti Baucom. If you don't know Voti Baucom, you've got to hear him.

01:19:17

He is an extraordinary preacher as well. For more details on this conference, which is being held from Thursday, January 16th, through Saturday, January 18th, go to g3conference .com

01:19:34

And remember, the G3 stands for Grace, Gospel, and Glory. And I have to, once again, remind you folks, that if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear, please go to ironsharpensirenradio .com,

01:19:46

click support, then click, click to donate now. We are in urgent need of your donations, because we have some bills mounting up that we currently are unable to pay.

01:19:57

And if it continues like this, we are going to bid you our farewell, or bid you adieu, is that how they say it?

01:20:06

Because we are really struggling right now. About three or four times a year, we run into this very serious financial problem, and we hope to hear from you who really love the show and don't want us to go away.

01:20:18

By going to ironsharpensirenradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card.

01:20:26

If you want to advertise with us, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

01:20:32

And as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe, you don't have to believe exactly as we do, but you need to be promoting something that's compatible with what we believe, we would love to help you launch an ad campaign, because we need your advertising dollars more than ever.

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Also, if you're siphoning money out of your giving to your local church that you're accustomed to, please don't do that.

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If you're giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in that way, please never siphon money out of your regular giving to your local church, because that's a command of scripture to provide for your church.

01:21:06

Never put your family in financial jeopardy to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Those are two commands of God providing for church and home.

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Providing for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is not a command of God, obviously. But if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, then please give as frequently as you can and as heavily as you can to ironsharpensironradio .com.

01:21:28

Click support, then click, click to donate now. If you are without a church home, a local

01:21:34

Bible -believing, biblically faithful church home, and you're not prayerfully seeking for one, you're living in rebellion against God.

01:21:42

So please rectify that situation and send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com. I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world.

01:21:51

And even if you are vacationing somewhere and you would like a recommendation for a church,

01:21:57

I have churches on lists all over the world that are biblically faithful. So send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:22:03

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line or something similar.

01:22:11

And that is the same email address where you can send a question for our guest today,

01:22:17

Dr. Scott Bassolo. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:22:23

chrisarnson at gmail .com. And we are now returning to our discussion. Let's see here.

01:22:30

Dr. Scott, we have a listener already who has a question for you. We have

01:22:35

Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania. And he asks, How do you delicately and in the spirit of Christ confront brothers who are planting a church nearby where you are and you think that the distance is too close for comfort, especially when the theological views of the church are very similar to the positions your own church holds?

01:23:06

Well, that is indeed a challenging topic, Chris. I would encourage our brother to go to those individuals and to inquire of them why they feel the need to establish a church of doctrinally similar character to the church that he is referring to and to find out what the particulars are that are going on in that different, in that new church environment.

01:23:41

He may find that there are items that he's unaware of doctrinally. You know, there are any number of things that could have arisen that perhaps he doesn't understand, that in fact there isn't the doctrinal similarity.

01:23:54

And he may find that in fact there is that doctrinal similarity and perhaps can get them to consider what in fact is their motivation.

01:24:04

So I would say going to those brothers and interacting with them about those matters and about the doctrinal parallels that he sees and giving them an opportunity to interact would be an appropriate way to begin a conversation with them.

01:24:20

Yeah, I love what my friend, whose ad you heard earlier, Pastor Bill Shishko of the new church plant

01:24:28

The Haven in Deer Park, Long Island, New York. I love what he did. He actually did some research before planting the church in that town and he discovered there wasn't any evangelical congregation in that town.

01:24:41

So, I mean, I think that that's the kind of thing that should be a part of the decision -making when planting a church.

01:24:48

Should it not be where you're not moving into an area where it's not as needed as it could be in another place?

01:24:58

That's absolutely the primary component, as we discussed earlier, Chris, in the

01:25:04

Grace Advance church planting program is that they identify, in fact, is there a need in the community?

01:25:11

So as not to simply repeat a church of a doctrinally parallel parameter as they consider this new work.

01:25:23

And then once you have understood that a church without a solid foundation or that there is no existence of such a church, then it's an opportunity to move forward.

01:25:34

But there's no reason, and really you become, in effect, somewhat divisive,

01:25:40

I believe, if you do start to just plant another church because you've decided for whatever reason that you want to do something slightly different, but the same doctrinal foundations occur at other venues.

01:25:52

That's a time when you should be supporting them, you should be using your gift for that church, joining it, and becoming a part of it.

01:25:59

And only at such time when you do see that there is not a solid church that then you have those grounds to consider moving forward with a church plant.

01:26:12

Great. We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who says,

01:26:19

When a new church rises up in your community, what do you think are the key things about a church that you should look for before you consider becoming a part of that church?

01:26:32

Obviously, visitation would be required in some fashion to learn more about the church.

01:26:40

But what are some of those key ingredients that you believe are necessary for a church to be considered a biblically sound congregation?

01:26:49

The first thing that you have to go, as you mentioned, visitation, you have to go and understand what the church is doing.

01:26:56

But I think the first matter to discern when you do visit a new church, be it a new church plant or another church that you're considering attending, is to discern what the biblical content of the message is.

01:27:11

And to really find out, is this a church that is honoring

01:27:16

God's word? So many churches in our day and age, Chris, have just come to the point where they have watered down the message content -wise to where it is a 20 - to 25 -minute message that is primarily filled with stories where perhaps the scripture is read, but never is it discussed and elaborated upon or expounded, as we would call it.

01:27:44

And that's not what you need. There is no value of listening to another man's story.

01:27:49

He may be entertaining, but that is not going to do anything for your spiritual walk. So you've got to go first and determine what is the biblical content of the preaching that's going on.

01:28:00

As you're there, then, participating in the service, I think the next thing to understand is what is driving the rest of the worship service.

01:28:08

Of course, the preaching is part of the worship, as is every part of the service, the giving, but what about the musical components?

01:28:15

Are these songs that are founded on God's word, whether they be familiar to you or not, can you determine by looking at the words in a song that they are conveying a doctrinal solidarity with scripture and that they are building up the truth of God's word?

01:28:34

And then I believe from there, you need to start to interact with the leadership and decide are these individuals that are really excited about getting out into the community and ministering to the community that's out there, reaching out to establish a gospel presence in that area.

01:28:56

And I think those are really the primary elements that need to be looked into when individuals are considering participating in a new church plan or, again, a new church at all.

01:29:08

Yeah, and I would assume you would agree that sometimes a visit isn't necessary because you might rule out a church immediately if you go to their website and you realize that they're heretics.

01:29:20

Yes, that would definitely give you the opportunity in the hall pass not to have to go, but do be careful as you look at, and that's usually the need for visitations.

01:29:31

I found that typically as you look at various churches, they may seem to be right on base with you from a doctrinal point of view, but when you get there, you find out that their statement of faith on their internet is not reflective in the reality of what goes on in their worship.

01:29:50

And one thing that frustrates me is that I have, like for instance on Facebook, I have had people send me requests to like their church.

01:30:03

And I will go to the website of the church, and there's no doctrinal statement.

01:30:09

There is only a description of things like, you know, you will receive a loving, warm welcome from a bunch of fine folks who will love you and care for you, and you'll have all these kinds of warm and sweet, fuzzy things, but you will see no confession of faith, no creedal statement, no church constitution, no statement of faith.

01:30:33

There's nothing there. Wouldn't that be for the other side of the question, for the actual people planting the church, that they should be including those things on their websites, if they can afford to have a website, or at least on some kind of publicly available statement?

01:30:55

And to be also honest, there are churches that unfortunately operate in a stealth form, where they keep things hidden and want to indoctrinate people, like the frog boiling in the kettle, without being straight up, right up front.

01:31:13

Wouldn't that be a very important thing for the church planter, the planters themselves, to make sure the public is aware of what they teach?

01:31:22

Oh, that's critical. I mean, we are living in the electronic and digital age, and there is a cost associated with websites and that type of communication, but it is essential.

01:31:35

And as you do it, the first thing that needs to be conveyed is that doctrinal foundation. And so many do have these five -bullet -point statements that convey their statement of faith, if that at all.

01:31:51

And that is unfortunately common and becoming more so because our churches are so focused on seeking to be growing in a way so as not to offend.

01:32:06

And our churches are afraid of the truth in many cases and won't state what they believe because they need to draw people in and will do it at any cost.

01:32:16

And your analogy of the frog in the water that is warm to begin with and then brought to boiling and eventually, you know, boils the animal is a danger.

01:32:27

And there is a necessity that people recognize the truth of the foundation of God's Word and whether or not that church stands on it.

01:32:37

And that's the only place you need to go. Those are the only churches that are true churches, and without that, you don't need to be spending your time there.

01:32:44

We have Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, and Grady says,

01:32:51

The church I attend is a church plant, and the previous church I attended was a church plant.

01:32:57

Both of these churches had another church come beside them to help out as they were getting started.

01:33:05

Do you think this is wise when church planting or when planting a church? The reason I ask, and he follows up with the reason he asks this, the reason

01:33:14

I ask is because I have a new neighbor and he was church planting, I guess he means planting, in the

01:33:22

Appalachia area in Kentucky. He's planning on planting a church in our city, but is starting from his home.

01:33:31

He said he has no support. That seems unwise to me. What do you think? Well, we'll start with the easy question first.

01:33:40

Yeah, I would agree, Grady. That is unwise. If you don't have that support, again, if you don't have a group of believers behind you, then that smacks of somebody who is not seeking to serve the

01:33:53

Lord, but perhaps himself. Now, that is obviously I don't have the foundation of what this gentleman is doing, but in most cases that would not smack of something that has got good biblical foundation to it.

01:34:07

And as far as your first question, Grady, and another church coming alongside you, absolutely.

01:34:12

That is one of the blessings of the Grace Advanced Ministry. There are Grace Advanced churches around the country.

01:34:19

We are particularly blessed here in the Northeast and in Wilmington and in Baltimore and in Columbus and throughout

01:34:30

Pennsylvania in several areas there are Grace Advanced churches that join and come alongside one another in their efforts so as to be able to help.

01:34:41

And I think when you have another church in an area that is willing to assist you, that is an excellent way because a church plan is a tremendous amount of work and it is a lot of strain on a limited number of individuals.

01:34:55

So that is a tremendous blessing when you can have that church come alongside you. Great. Thank you,

01:35:01

Grady. Excellent questions. We have an anonymous listener who says,

01:35:06

If you are in an area where there is no biblically sound church for even a hundred miles and you want to get a church started near you, if it is impossible for you to move, for various reasons, to an area where there is a sound church, how do you get this moving, especially if you are not personally qualified to be the one leading the church?

01:35:32

How would you suggest inviting people from other areas not only leaders but also people who might want to move to your area to begin a work that has the true gospel and has true compassionate hearts to see the lost saved?

01:35:50

That is another great question. I think that as you have identified that there are no solid churches in your area and for such a significant distance, as he indicates, then, or she, the thing that needs to be done is they need to get out and begin to find other like -minded believers in their community.

01:36:13

And that oftentimes means stepping out of ourselves. It means going to coffee shops and engaging other individuals about the gospel.

01:36:22

It really means evangelism in some degree because therein you begin to find if there are other like -minded believers in the area.

01:36:30

You need to identify a core group of individuals of somewhere ideally around 20 to 30 people and then to move forward to a group, for instance, like Grace Advance and to approach them and express your desires, the doctrinal foundations that you represent, and see if you can engage another church in helping you in a church plant type of endeavor.

01:36:59

Again, that's what Grace Advance is set up to do through Grace Community Church. There are other organizations as well through other churches.

01:37:07

The key is to find a church that has a doctrinal foundation that is solid, that shows the truth of Reformed theology, that is holding to the inerrancy of God's Word, and to make certain that those are the groups that are helping you move forward in the effort.

01:37:24

But what you have to begin with is you have to begin joining and finding other believers in the area and having them come alongside.

01:37:32

Obviously, there's going to be a time gap in that, and my suggestion would be to find, at those times, a place where you can gather on a

01:37:42

Sunday at someone's home and begin to start watching sermons as if you were part of that church.

01:37:48

That's not a long -term solution, but to go to Grace Community Church and to watch the broadcast at 10 .30

01:37:55

p .m. Pacific Time from Grace Church and Dr.

01:38:01

MacArthur and allow that to be your church and allow that to be what drives you and continues to build your momentum, then those are the ways that you can begin to move forward and see if the

01:38:13

Lord is desiring to see you plant a church in that community. And it sounds like there's a necessity. And, of course,

01:38:19

I'm sure you would agree that that is never to be the permanent solution, is to have your television set or your radio become your church.

01:38:28

No, absolutely not. And, unfortunately, we have seen so much of this coming about, even with churches multiplying and different congregations becoming video congregations, although that is a slightly different issue.

01:38:42

But the television and the home is never to be the location. Scripture tells us that we're not to forsake the assembling together of ourselves and further tells us the church is a body that Christ has ordained and gifted to individuals for the edification of those in it and for the outreach to the community in which it exists.

01:39:02

So that can't happen inside the confines of a TV screen in a home. Thank you,

01:39:08

Anonymous. And if you are a first -time questioner for Iron Trip and Zion Radio, and this goes for anybody else who's listening who's a first -time questioner, if you send me your full mailing address and name, of course, you will receive in the mail a free new

01:39:25

New American Standard Bible compliments of the publishers of the NASB and also compliments of our friends at CVBBS .com,

01:39:33

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who will ship that out to you at no charge to you or to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:39:39

We now have to go to our final break. It will be much shorter than the last break, but if you have a question that you'd like to ask

01:39:47

Dr. Scott Basileau, please send it as quickly as you can because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:39:54

That's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

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Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors. Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am

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01:51:16

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. And if you just tuned us in our guest today is Dr.

01:51:21

Scott Basile, and we are discussing church planting if you'd like to ask us a question, we're wrapping

01:51:27

We're rapidly running out of time. So please send it immediately to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

01:51:32

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania Dr.

01:51:40

Basile and Susan Margaret says what does your guest think of some of the names that churches are

01:51:50

Using when either they are planting a church or perhaps they're changing the historically held name of the church

01:51:58

That they think it's something modern hip and catchy But actually Explains or signifies nothing that the average person would readily understand it means

01:52:09

Do you know what our guest is or should I say our listener is talking about? Obviously the

01:52:14

Master's Church. That's a name that immediately you understand What that means and it's giving praise honor and glory to God by using the term master

01:52:27

There's no there's no question mark there. There's no fuzziness, but there are churches that seem to use

01:52:34

Names and I and I don't want to even give an example because I might be offending But I'm sure you can understand what the guest or the

01:52:43

I'm just keep saying the guest the listener is saying Yeah, absolutely Chris and Susan to direct your question.

01:52:50

I think in not all cases, but in a lot of those cases they are Attempting to avoid

01:52:57

The reality of what a church is supposed to be there and to try to present themselves in a more seeker friendly mentality there is a church in a community that I used to pastor in that was planted and their motto was a church for the people who don't like church

01:53:16

That is so ridiculous and we used to just kind of laugh about that And yet it became a pretty significant church because they were doing just that trying to keep people from Feeling convicted not talking about the reality of the the doctrinal foundation of Scripture and trying to keep a light

01:53:36

Fluffy message and a lot of times Susan that is the case in other cases There are some who are changing their name because they have been involved with a denomination that is no longer holding to the foundational components of The Scripture and they're in an order to separate themselves from the liberalism that's occurring in the denomination

01:53:58

They will move away from that particular title, which I think there's some justification for in that sense, but in the larger number of cases, it's

01:54:07

Individuals who are not wanting to associate with the truth of Scripture and the reality that's required of those who are believers in Jesus Christ Yeah, I'm not and I'm I'm assuming that our listener doesn't mean

01:54:20

Or doesn't believe that it's always wrong to change the name of your church Even if it's a good name to begin with but perhaps you don't want to be tied into a denominational

01:54:33

Name that you think people are staying away because they have wrong

01:54:40

Preconceived notions about what that denomination teaches and that kind of a thing Such as we were discussing earlier first American Baptist Church of you know such -and -such town you know when when you find out that you are the only one in the domination who still holds to the inerrancy of Scripture and the reality of God's Holy Word and then perhaps it's time to consider that change

01:55:07

Yeah, and in fact I can remember having Lunch with a bunch of my fundamentalist

01:55:14

Baptist friends years ago They were clients of mine and and they had a radio program where they shared

01:55:23

The the hosting of the show and also shared the finances of keeping the show on the air and there was a dispute among them on Whether or not they should allow churches that called themselves

01:55:37

Bible churches and not Baptist churches and one of the men in anger as the men were going back and forth said

01:55:47

Well, we got to stop doing what men says and we got to stick with the Bible says and this happened to be a man

01:55:52

Who believed you had to use the name Baptist in the name of your church, but where does it say that in the Bible? And of course we have a prime example of a wonderful Baptist from history

01:56:05

Who all of these men would have upheld as a hero, even though that none of them were Calvinists As Charles Haddon Spurgeon clearly was but Charles Haddon Spurgeon's congregation was the

01:56:17

Metropolitan Tabernacle so You know, obviously that is there's nothing inappropriate about that kind of thing.

01:56:24

Well, I want to make sure that you have several minutes now uninterrupted to Leave our listeners with what you most want etched in their hearts and minds before we go off the air today

01:56:35

Well, thank you Chris and I do want to first say again, thank you for the privilege of being on your show today

01:56:40

It's been a true delight I think the most important thing that that we want our listeners to know is the importance of being a part of a solid

01:56:49

Bible -believing church where God's Word is held in high esteem a church where they can participate in using the giftedness that God gives to all believers and to be a part of Truly spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ per the

01:57:06

Great Commission Understanding that the church that you're in has to be a church that is making

01:57:12

Disciples that is that you are being built up in your most holy faith and growing in your understanding of Jesus Christ That is the church that holds to the ordinance of baptism as required for all true believers in Jesus Christ And that they practice on a regular basis the

01:57:32

Lord's Supper Therein that you can again grow and that you can see others grow so as you can reach out to the community

01:57:40

Which is so desperately needing the truth of God's Word in the dead and dying world that is all around us where we have been given the greatest of commissions and the greatest of gifts and We must be a part of carrying that forth that truth forward

01:58:00

Into all of the world and to everyone to whom we can reach because the

01:58:05

Lord's return is sure and Until such time we want to be certain that we are found about his work

01:58:12

Amen. Well, it's been such a joy Dr. Bassal for you to be my guest today.

01:58:19

I'm looking forward to meeting you in person I hope you can come to the Iron Sherpins Iron Radio pastors luncheon here in Coralina.

01:58:26

Thank you great And please invite the men in leadership and your congregation to attend as well. And for those of you listening once again

01:58:33

That's Thursday, May 23rd at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall in Carlisle, Pennsylvania Send me an email if you want to register at Chris Ornson at gmail .com

01:58:42

Chris Ornson at gmail .com Also, I want you to remember that the website for the

01:58:48

Master's Church of Buck County is TheMastersChurch .org TheMastersChurch .org

01:58:54

and the website for Grace Advance involved in planting churches through the ministry of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California Where John MacArthur is the senior pastor that is

01:59:08

GraceAdvance .org GraceAdvance .org I want to thank all of you who listened today

01:59:13

Especially those who took the time to write in questions and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives That Jesus Christ is a far greater