Is Feminism Poison?

The Power of God’s Word in a Broken Culture

Brothers, what we do in life echoes in eternity.

I mean, this is what's wrong with the Christian church today. We don't know who God is, and we don't know who we are.

This is where we hold them. This is where we fight.

Officer, you need to repent of your lawless conduct. You don't know the law, and yet you pretend to represent it. That's not law enforcement, sir. That's being a thug.

We will not stop fighting and bothering you all until this monstrous, barbaric practice of legalized abortion ends,.

And we are teaching our children to do the same.

God's Word says that the shed blood of innocent humans cries out for justice, and mark my words, they will have their day in court. Nobody gets saved by being treated nicely. They get saved by hearing the gospel.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of Christ. If we don't open our mouths and commend Christ, we're not loving Him, no matter what we're doing with our hands.

Introductions and the Purpose of Sheologians

Hello. You are watching another episode of Provoked. I'm Desi, and I'm missing my beautiful bearded co-host, but I'm joined by two other beautiful co-hosts. You know them. Joy the Girl Hunter and Summer Jaeger of Theologians on this Wednesday.

Wednesday.

Can we say it's Thursday?

Thursday, I like it. I mean, it'll be next Wednesday, but it was a stretch. Anyways, I am very excited about the show. It's going to be so fun.

Me too.

I want to just encourage you to, if you haven't already, join All Access, because when you do that, you keep shows like Provoked and Theologians and Cultish and Apologia Radio going, and you also get access to all the content, which is On the Street Evangelism, lectures, sponsoring you, just a ton of good stuff.

So if you haven't already become an All Access member, become one. Also, if you haven't yet, ask your pastor about signing up with End of Worship Now. We've got over 700 churches, I think, that are a part of this ministry.

Countless babies have been saved. God has saved so many babies through this ministry. It's the great evil of our age, the abortion holocaust. So if you sign up with End of Worship Now and get your church involved, you can be a part of this great, great movement that God is doing, and everything's for free.

You get signs and literature and just being part of a community where you can glean from people that have been doing it for a long time. So sign up for it. Go to endabortionnow .com to become a partner with us.

So today we're here with Sheologians, Joy and Summer, my friends, my sisters, and I'm so excited because I've been wanting to have you guys on forever, well, since we've been going with Provoked, but I feel like most of our listeners know you guys or listen to you already, but maybe there's some that don't.

So why don't you guys start off by telling me a little brief. Summer, you start. Tell me who you are and a little brief testimony, and then Joy, and then tell me how Sheologians got started and the purpose of the show.

And I'll prompt you.

What am I telling you?

I'm Summer. You're Summer.

I'm Joy's co-host. That's how I introduce myself now. Do you guys know Joy? I'm her co-host.

And Summer's my co-host.

So it works out great.

We do this thing where we, like, we actually did this in an interview one time where we, like, answered each other's questions.

Oh, that's perfect. Go ahead.

It made it easier. You know what's funny is when we first started doing Sheologians, and this doesn't happen so much anymore, but when we first started this weird phenomenon happened where people would come up to me and they'd be like, hey, where's Joy?

And they would come up to her and be like, where's Summer? And it's, like, if you saw me, like, you were supposed to see her. And I'd be like, I don't live in the same house. Like, I don't know where she's we're not together all the time.

You're like, I think at Fry's. I don't know.

She's on her way. I don't know. But anyway. We've been doing Sheologians. Is that what you asked me about?

Okay.

Well, yeah, go ahead. Any order you want.

Sure.

We've been doing it since 2016.

Okay.

So we're coming up on do the math quick.

Five.

Five years.

Five years. Wow.

Have you been doing it since 2016?

The end of September. September 30th. I actually remember the date.

Yeah.

September 30th of 2016. I'm not sentimental at all.

We started doing Sheologians.

And, yeah, we're coming up on five years. I lost count. I don't even count episodes anymore. We're well over 200 now.

Yeah.

Carmen used to ask us what episode number. And we'd be like 5 ,023.

Yeah.

We're on, like, 24, and I've already lost count.

I don't know what episode that is.

Yeah.

So

Oh, praise the Lord.

Yeah.

It's been really fun.

That's awesome. And so you grew up so who's your dad?

Yeah.

In case anybody doesn't know. And your mom.

Her dad is James White.

Yeah.

Kelly White, mother.

Yes.

So you grew up in a Christian home.

Yeah, I did. And so I have a classically boring testimony. And what I mean by that is not, like, I wish it was any different. Just that there's no extra.

Sure.

Like, I don't you know, some people are, like I guess there's a thing in the evangelical world where people, like, get up and, like, give these really stirring, like, I was dead in an alleyway type of

Right.

And so what I'm saying is

Christ saved you, but, like, were there any, like, miracles or healings or anything?

It wasn't, like, this huge

It was a miracle.

Yeah.

Because, you know, I think people that grew up in the church are often the hardest people to reach. But

It wasn't, like, a dramatic, like

Yeah.

No, I didn't have a I don't have a dead in the alleyway story. I have a very much I grew up in the church and always mentally assented, believed, like, yeah, the Bible is true, but internally knew that my parents' faith wasn't mine.

Sure.

And I can't I remember being 10, 11-ish and, like, praying and asking the Lord, like, to save me. It wasn't really until I was in my teens that I could say my faith was my own. And even then, I think one of the reasons I'm so passionate on the theologians about we talk a lot about emotional control and self-control.

I think one of the reasons I'm so passionate about that is that I know what it's like to have none. And so I really in my teenage years, although, like, I was like, man, like, I want to love the Lord.

I want to chase after the Lord.

Right.

I was so I had such a lack of emotional self-control that I just it was turbulent for me. And so I remember the peace that I actually felt in my early 20s when I really went through my first, like, big trial.

And I went through that trial with the Lord. And just the I stopped doubting my own salvation. And it was like it was peaceful to actually go through this trial.

Wow.

And because I was like, OK, like, this is all of God. And it did take, I think, many years of really not knowing what to do with my emotions and being very just I was not prepared to deal with life in a real practical way in some ways that really made my Christian walk a struggle that it didn't need to be.

And so I think that's part of what my that's part of I mean, Joy and I were always talking about emotional control and self-control and what to do with your emotions. And it's been a long obviously, neither one of us would say that we've arrived.

There's nothing left for me to learn here.

Right.

I have plenty left to learn. But I think that it was just such a big

There was a part of me that was like, man, I wish I could, like, hysterically cry on cue or something. Just to like really support yourself.

Support. Emotional support. We've got it all. So, yeah, it is. And I think that we are so you know, so much of evangelicalism is all emotionalism. And so there's just so many reasons that Christians are taught to doubt their faith.

They don't feel a certain way. And I think just being on the other side of that is part of what has motivated me to talk about it so often.

Yeah.

My listeners are probably tired of it.

I don't think so.

Oh, Joy and Summer at it again.

No.

We have a lot of listeners that just absolutely love you guys. Because when I tell anybody that I'm a member at Apology of Church, you know, I get a lot of like, oh, you know, Pastor Jeff and Pastor James.

But more and I don't tell you this because I want you to stay humble. But more of the time because I'm usually talking to women. They're like, do you know Summer and Joy? I'm like, yeah. They're cool.

All right.

But you ladies have edified so many women. And what I love, love about your show, one of the many things I love about your show, is that you really fight against what the unbelieving culture around us stereotypes, how they stereotype women, which is ignorant, weak-minded, just idiots, you know.

But here you are with a robust and rigorous defense of the faith and knowledge, deep, deep knowledge of Scripture and who God is. And so I love it not only because it edifies me personally and other women, but like also for our girls, you know, because just you know how it is.

We'll talk more about feminism, but just what our culture says about how us Christian women are when Christian women are actually the strongest women in the world, right? We're the strongest because we have Christ and we have our minds renewed.

But I just think your show is just such a crucial, crucial ministry. And I know that's why God is blessing it so much. And I just I hope that it goes on until you guys are old ladies like cackling.

We have rocking chair plans.

Yeah.

So I just love it. And I think that our listeners are going to be encouraged by it because, you know, the purpose of our show is to provoke the church to share the gospel, rescue babies, and destroy cultural.

But a lot of the, you know, sharing the gospel portion is like in the home, you know, to your children, out on the streets. But in order to do that, you need to know who God is and, I mean

Be able to have that conversation.

Right.

Yeah.

So anyhoo, Joy, you're next.

Oh, wait. You know what?

I'm going to ask you a couple questions.

Oh, okay.

The first question is, you're a mom. Well, that's not a question. That's a statement. You're a mom and a wife. But my question is, what is there two things that you didn't know about being a mom before you became a mom?

That no one just nobody mentioned them to you. I know people mention things that you're like, you're going to love them so much you'll never understand that. And you don't really conceptually understand that until you see them.

But things that, like, people absolutely did not tell you about motherhood.

Yeah.

So I was definitely told that, you know, it will sanctify you, it will grow you. My dad was always telling me that the two things that the two main ways that God matures people just outside of his word in the church is marriage and having kids.

So I expected to be matured. I didn't expect the ways in which that would happen. And I think experientially the thing that has surprised me the most is that they really are little mirrors. And you're told that.

That's not, like, a secret.

Right.

But then once you experience it and they're little mirrors, not even in just, like I think a lot of people say that. They mean, like, well, they look like you and they have your DNA and they might act like you.

I mean they're mirrors in real time. I mean that when you have a sour disposition, they will have a sour disposition. If you want to know really and engage the temperature of your household, look at your kids.

And they'll actually tell you just by observing their behavior you will learn where you're at. And so that one, it surprised me how related they are to you. And I think a lot of times we live in this, like, really materialistic world where when you say things like that you're really thinking, like, DNA, temperament.

But, like, no, I mean real time spiritually the impact that you have on your children in this moment is huge. I mean it's just massive.

Like supernatural.

Yeah, you can't really you really can't overstate it.

Right.

So that was the first one. The second one was I just was not prepared. And, again, this is something you learn experientially. I don't think I was prepared for actually unveiling how selfish I am. So actually learning that all the things that I think I'm entitled to, like, your children really show you that.

Right.

And it starts

Like every day.

Every day. It starts with your body.

Yeah.

Sharing your body with another person, like, for a really long time.

Right.

And if you nurse, like, for a really long time. And even after that. I mean, you know, women talk a lot about, like, feeling touched out. And that is a real thing.

Right.

And having to do that joyfully might be more difficult or less difficult for some people. And that's fine. But really just that you all day long are a conduit of life for another person is so humbling.

And it really will show you how selfish you are.

Yeah.

That you're a lot of times you're not willing to give up your sleep or your body or your time or your wardrobe or your, you know, just so many things. And so I feel like these are It's not necessarily that nobody had ever said, oh, motherhood is hard.

But these very specific ways really surprised me. And I think a lot of times it just maybe people don't think it's polite conversation.

Or they're, like, afraid maybe to admit that.

And, you know, I just think it's I mean, there's tenfold lessons you can learn from these things. Obviously, I would assume that once you see your selfishness, you realize it's your job to go to war with it and to do it joyfully.

And that's part of the work of motherhood that a lot of people don't talk about. And it should be talked about. And we should be equipping our daughters to learn how to do that now. So it's a big job.

But those two really those surprised me. And even if I had heard them before, the gravity of it was surprising.

Yeah. Wow.

Amen to that. I can echo that in every single

We all.

Yeah.

Okay. Now I've got another question for you. What would only someone who's lived with you something that only someone who's lived with you, you know, like your parents or old roommate or your husband, like your kids.

What would only they know about you? One little fun fact.

So I actually I asked my husband. And he had two really weird ones. The first and I just think this is normal. But he said the fact that I he thinks you guys don't know this. I don't know why you wouldn't.

You like scream in your sleep?

It's the thrashing. The thrashing.

It's the thrashing in my sleep. He said the fact that I use a toe separator.

What?

For like a pedicure.

When do you use it?

Okay. So it's this little like silicone. Not right now. I only wear it at home. You put it between it's like two silicone things and you put it between your toes.

Like when you're getting a pedi?

No.

Okay.

All the time is what she's saying.

No, just 15 minutes a day.

But is it like the pedicure ones?

It's it gives you a good foot stretch.

Oh, okay.

But like you really can't get otherwise.

Okay.

Like it's you know.

So you stretch.

You can't just like do this with your toes.

Right.

I mean some of you weirdos probably can.

Yeah.

But like

I can with one.

Yeah, you've got the weird

Yeah.

So all that to say, I wear a toe like it feels good. It's like

Maybe not enough of us are stretching our toes.

You know, somebody might be listening right now and be like, I also toe stretch. And they feel comforted by this.

Yeah.

Or somebody that's having, you know, some issues in that area.

If you have feet issues and want to stretch, just get on Amazon and get you some toe separators.

If you said Okay.

All right.

The other one is that whenever I put a book like pick a book up or put a book down, I sniff it on both ends. On both ends.

Okay.

And if it's the book I've been reading for the last week, I'm still like I picked it up. And then before I say goodnight to it.

I've seen this happen.

Does it smell like coffee or like Cheetos?

Well, just the smelling. It's a good book.

You know, just the

So I thought it might smell like whatever's on your hand, you know.

No, it smells like a book.

Oh, gotcha.

It's still paper and ink.

Yeah.

It's like the best and binding and it's just and I will like a book more or less based on how it smells.

Good to know.

Matthew did my husband ordered a book the other day and he could tell. He was like, this was in some hippie shop because it smells like incense.

So.

It's a thing.

Well, so now our listeners know.

Yeah.

That's what I'm doing at night. I'm laying there sniffing my books.

I'm separating your toes.

That's what you do in your 30s.

Well, thank you. You know, I didn't do that in my 30s. I'm 39 but, you know, I have a lot to learn.

It's not too late.

Yeah.

It's not too late.

You're not done yet.

Yeah.

You can start. I do audiobooks mostly. So it'd be like I'd be smelling.

Yeah.

Don't smell your phone.

It's gross.

It's actually not good.

Especially after my kids have been touching it all day.

Pass on that. Yeah.

All right. How about Joy? Joy, you've been a part of Apologia Studios and Apologia Church since its inception. So go ahead and back up and tell me a little testimony about how you became a Christian and you already kind of covered why you wanted to start Sheologians, but maybe like your take on that.

And then I'm going to ask you the same question.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I would say obviously James White is not my dad. That's a fairly big difference between

He's a father in the faith.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Yes. But yeah. I grew up mainly with my mom who did an excellent job providing me like knowledge about the Bible. And of course I knew So I had that sort of like classic training where you know the stories and you know.

But not like She taught me application, but the churches we went to were a little Well, theologically I wouldn't agree with some of the churches that we went to, but not like nothing crazy or

Not heretical.

I mean

Maybe borderline.

But

Say no more.

Basically I was just like so many of us, I was a product of public school and just random kid church workers doing the best they could or reading off the sheet that they were given or whatever, you know.

And I would say that the disservice that that did for me is that there was a moment where I had to learn in my teens that my own just because I have a personal belief, it doesn't mean it's true. And so I was kind of just under the assumption I just had really bad theology.

Well, and I don't sometimes it's hard when you've grown up in the church and maybe the discipleship or the theology was a little bit lacking. It's hard to know exactly when you were saved.

Sure, yeah.

But I definitely I noticed quite a bit of difference when I was about 16. And then, you know, you kind of I think I did sort of what most teenagers do, which is also keep a lot of stuff just private, like my own personal development and what I was learning.

So it was all just kind of me privately mining for ideas that I liked. And basically what I ended up with was that all human beings are good and basically if they're just given the opportunities to promote goodness and given a fair shot, people would prove ultimately that they're good.

And really what that led to was me looking around and coming to the conclusion that Christianity was sort of just a nice tradition, a way that good people had the means to be good or better or whatever.

And that was obviously very wrong. And there was a a large turning point for me was a close friend of mine, my best friend at the time, came out to me. And that was really that was the first moment where it became very clear to me that like the Bible says one thing about this, but then she's telling me that she prayed to God about it and he said it was okay.

And so I had I basically realized like there's some inconsistency here. Like both things can't be true. And in a weird like in a very fiery way, God definitely brought me to my knees just in his consistency.

And what's been I mean it's been I think really an important part of my testimony is just truth and where it comes from and how do you know it's true and sort of the ability to critically think through that.

I was always a very smart kid, but I was just making it up as I went. And that's not that's what a lot of people do these days, but it has a very tragic end and a very foolish it looks very foolish while you're acting it out.

And so I basically my friend coming out to me and we did this our youth group did a Doctrines of Grace series.

Oh, really?

And I went to we went to a reformed church, but it didn't I wasn't always super clear on what that meant. I basically knew predestination. And it was when we went through total depravity, a lot of kids in this group had a lot of issues with that and then the other the rest of it too.

And there was lots of like, well, we're not robots kind of talk. But what's interesting is I was hearing I was being taught the Doctrines of Grace and I was like, huh, that actually makes a lot of sense.

Like it actually makes more sense if God is who he says he is and not who I like whatever I come up with.

Yeah.

And so again, like my perceptions and my view of what's true and what's real was challenged. But this time it just kind of it's almost like it just kind of clicked into place and I was like, oh, wait a minute.

Oh, I'm not God. God like what God says is what's true. And when I read the word, I see his consistency from long, long ago.

Right, yeah.

To, you know, to now in my own life. And that was just it was basically just me, you know, it was God changing me. And like I said, I don't know exactly when that change took place. But I had the benefit of meeting Jeff.

Jeff started coming to the church that I was attending. And I don't think that knowing the Doctrines of Grace like didn't radically change me into a wholly obedient, sin-free kid. And I still struggled and challenged was challenged quite a bit.

And a lot of times I tried I attempted to do that alone and handle that by myself. Which may I don't want to paint that as some like tragic, heroic thing like it was pride. And that's the reason I did that.

But I had I've had the pleasure and blessing to sit under some serious discipleship. And sometimes I think I should know more. Sometimes I I'm just grateful for the blessing. Not everybody gets plopped in to the situation that I did.

And it's of course the reason for that is it's not plopping. It's intentional, sovereign placement. And yeah, it's very it's always interesting to look back at your testimony and see. Because at the time you just don't you don't know where you're headed.

And even now I still know so little of it. But to know more. And so yeah, I guess if you're if the importance for you, Summer, and Sheologians is like the emotional control, I think a lot of the ministry that I'm interested in is that truth.

How do we know what we know and how do we It's just we talk about it on Sheologians all the time also as well as emotional control and emotional maturity. But yeah, that's really I think that it's so it'll change your life.

Knowing what's right and what's wrong and what's reliable and what's real will change your entire life. It really and it's not just yeah, it's supernatural. It's not just like reading a book and being like, oh, this is I love this part.

Right.

It affects all areas of our life including like being a wife and a mother.

Right.

A citizen or a neighbor, a church member.

Why Theology Matters for Evangelism, Motherhood, and Marriage

Okay.

Well, and you just you have to get it right.

Yeah.

Like if you don't get it right, like I said, it's tragic. Like either in the ending or as it plays out.

Right.

Yeah.

And that's I'm going to actually bring that up after I ask you two questions. That's going to segue good into our next subject. But okay. So before you have a little baby, Georgia. How old does she know?

She'll be two in September.

Oh, my goodness.

I know.

Time flies.

It's wild.

So she was just born but also she'll be two.

Yeah, I know. I feel like we were just at your baby shower. I'm not kidding.

I love it.

Yeah.

And you are married to Mr. Matthew Hunter who's kind of like a legend in our church amongst 10-year-old boys.

Like

For sure.

You don't know how many times like randomly his name comes up in our house. Like

Oh, yeah.

We'll be on a walk. There'll be a stick on the ground. And Liam will be like, Matthew could make fire right now.

Oh, the other night like my kids were running outside trying to identify something and then they couldn't and they came inside and they were like, well, just ask Matthew.

Yeah.

That's like the answer. Just ask Matthew.