Is Feminism Poison?

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00:04

Brothers, what we do in life echoes in eternity. I mean, this is what's wrong with the

00:13

Christian church today. We don't know who God is, and we don't know who we are. This is where we hold them.

00:22

This is where we fight. Officer, you need to repent of your lawless conduct.

00:32

You don't know the law, and yet you pretend to represent it. That's not law enforcement, sir.

00:38

That's being a thug. We will not stop fighting and bothering you all until this monstrous, barbaric practice of legalized abortion ends.

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And we are teaching our children to do the same. God's word says that the shed blood of innocent humans cries out for justice, and mark my words, they will have their day in court.

01:03

Nobody gets saved by being treated nicely. They get saved by hearing the gospel.

01:08

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. If we don't open our mouths and commend

01:13

Christ, we're not loving Him, no matter what we're doing with our hands.

01:24

Hello. You are watching another episode of Provoked. I'm Desi, and I'm missing my beautiful bearded co -host, but I'm joined by two other beautiful co -hosts.

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You know them. Joy the Girl Hunter and Summer Jaeger of Theologians on this

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Wednesday. Can we say it's

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Thursday? Thursday. I mean, it'll be next Wednesday, but it was a stretch.

01:53

Anyways, I am very excited about the show. It's going to be so fun. Me too.

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I want to just encourage you to, if you haven't already, join All Access, because when you do that, you keep shows like Provoked and Theologians and Cultish and Apologia Radio going, and you also get access to all the content, which is

02:16

On the Street Evangelism, lectures, sponsoring you, just a ton of good stuff. So if you haven't already become an

02:22

All Access member, become one. Also, if you haven't yet, ask your pastor about signing up with End Abortion Now.

02:29

We've got over 700 churches, I think, that are a part of this ministry. Countless babies have been saved.

02:36

God has saved so many babies through this ministry. It's the great evil of our age, the abortion

02:42

Holocaust. If you sign up with End Abortion Now and get your church involved, you can be a part of this great, great movement that God is doing.

02:52

Everything's for free. You get signs and literature and just being part of a community where you can glean from people that have been doing it for a long time.

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So sign up for it. Go to endabortionnow .com to become a partner with us.

03:06

So today we're here with Sheologians, Joy and Summer, my friends, my sisters, and I'm so excited because I've been wanting to have you guys on forever, well, since we've been going with Provoked, but I feel like most of our listeners know you guys or listen to you already, but maybe there's some that don't.

03:27

So why don't you guys start off by telling me a little brief, Summer, you start, tell me who you are and a little brief testimony, and then

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Joy, and then tell me how Sheologians got started and the purpose of the show.

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And I'll prompt you. What am I telling you? I'm Summer.

03:48

You're Summer. I'm Joy's co -host. That's how I introduce myself now.

03:54

Do you guys know Joy? I'm her co -host. And Summer's my co -host. So it works out great.

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We do this thing where we actually did this in an interview one time where we answered each other's questions.

04:05

Oh, that's perfect. Go ahead. It made it easier. And you know what's funny is when we first started doing

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Sheologians, and this doesn't happen so much anymore, but when we first started this weird phenomenon happened where people would come up to me and they'd be like,

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Hey, where's Joy? And they would come up to her and be like, Where's Summer? And it's like if you saw me, like you were supposed to see her.

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I'd be like, I don't live in the same house. Like I don't know where she is.

04:31

We're not together all the time. You're like, I think at Fry's. I don't know. She's on her way.

04:37

I don't know. But anyway, we've been doing Sheologians. Is that what you asked me about?

04:43

Well, yeah, go ahead. Any order you want. We've been doing it since 2016. Okay. So we're coming up on, do the math quick.

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Five. Five years. Wow. Have you been doing it since 2016? The end of September.

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September 30th. I actually remember the date. Yeah. September 30th of 2016. I'm not sentimental at all.

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We started doing Sheologians. And yeah, we're coming up on five years. I lost count. I don't even count episodes anymore.

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We're well over 200 now. Yeah. Carmen used to ask us what episode number and we'd be like 5023.

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Yeah. We're on like 24 and I've already lost count. I don't know what episode it is.

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Yeah. So. Praise the Lord. Yeah. It's been really fun. That's awesome. And so you grew up.

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So who's your dad? In case anybody doesn't know. And your mom. Her dad is James White. Kelly White.

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Mother. Yes. So you grew up in a Christian home. Yeah, I did. And so I have a classically boring testimony.

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And what I mean by that is not like I wish it was any different.

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Right. Just that there's no extra. Sure. Like I don't, you know, some people are like, I guess there's a thing in the evangelical world where people like get up and like give these really stirring like I was dead in an alleyway type of.

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Right. And so what I'm saying is. But like, were there any like miracles or healings?

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It wasn't like this huge. It was a miracle. Yeah. Because, you know, I think people that grew up in the church are often the hardest people to reach.

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Right. But. It wasn't like a dramatic. Yeah. No, I didn't have a.

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I don't have. I don't have a dead in the alleyway story. I have a very much. I grew up in the church and always mentally assented, believed, like, yeah, the

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Bible is true, but internally knew that my parents' faith wasn't mine. Sure. And I can't.

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I remember being 10, 11 ish and say and like praying and asking the

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Lord like to save me. It wasn't really until I was in my teens that I could say my faith was my own.

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And even then, I think one of the reasons I'm so passionate on sheologians about we talk a lot about emotional control and self -control.

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I think one of the reasons I'm so passionate about that is that I know what it's like to have none.

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And so I really in my teenage years, although like I, I, I was like, man, like I want to love the

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Lord. I want to chase after the Lord. I was so I had such a lack of emotional self -control that I just it was turbulent for me.

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And so I remember the piece that I actually felt in my early 20s when

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I really went through my first like big trial and I went through that trial with the

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Lord and just the. I stopped doubting my own salvation and it was like it was peaceful to actually go through this trial.

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And because I was like, OK, like this is all of God. And it did take,

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I think, many years of really not knowing what to do with my emotions and being very just.

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I was not prepared to deal with life in a real practical way in some ways that really made my

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Christian walk a struggle that it didn't need to be. And so I think that's part of what my that's part.

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I mean, Joy and I were always talking about emotional control and self -control and what to do with your emotions.

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And it's been a long, obviously, neither one of us would say that we've arrived.

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There's nothing left for me to learn here. Right. I have plenty left to learn. But I think that it was just such a big.

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There's a part of me that was like, man, I wish I could like hysterically cry on cue or something. Just to like really support yourself.

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Support. Yeah. Emotional support. Emotional support. We've got it all. So, yeah, it is.

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And I think that we are so, you know, so much of evangelicalism is all emotionalism.

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And so there's just so many reasons that Christians are taught to doubt their faith. They don't feel a certain way.

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And I think just being on the other side of that is part of what has motivated me to talk about it so often.

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Yeah. My listeners are probably tired of it. I don't think so. Joy and Summer at it again. No. We have a lot of listeners that just absolutely love you guys.

09:42

When I tell anybody that I'm a member at Apology of Church, you know, I get a lot of like, oh, you know,

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Pastor Jeff and Pastor James, but more. And I don't tell you this because I want you to stay humble.

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But I'm more of the time because I'm usually talking to women. They're like, do you know Summer and Joy?

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I'm like, yeah, they're cool. All right. But you ladies have edified so many women.

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And what I love, love about your show, one of the many things I love about your show is that you really fight against what the unbelieving culture around us stereotypes, how they stereotype women, which is ignorant, weak minded, just idiots, you know, and that here you are with a robust and rigorous defense of the faith and knowledge, deep, deep knowledge of scripture and who

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God is. And so I love it not only because it edifies me personally and other women, but like also for our girls, you know, because just, you know how it is.

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We'll talk more about feminism, but just what our culture says about how us as Christian women are when

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Christian women are actually the strongest women in the world, right?

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We're the strongest because we have Christ and we have our minds renewed. But I just think your show is just such a crucial, crucial ministry.

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And I know that's why God is blessing it so much. And I just, I hope that it goes on until you guys are old ladies like cackling.

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We have rocking chair plans. Yeah. So I just love it. And I think that our listeners are going to be encouraged by it because, you know, the purpose of our show is to provoke the church to share the gospel, rescue babies and destroy cultural idols.

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But a lot of the, you know, sharing the gospel portion is like in the home, you know, to your children out on the streets.

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But in order to do that, you need to know who God is. And I mean, be able to have that conversation.

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Right. Yeah. So any who's joy you're next. Oh, wait, you know what? I'm going to ask you a couple of questions.

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The first question is your mom. Well, that's not a question. That's a statement.

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You're a mom and a wife. But my question is, what is there two things that you didn't know about being a mom before you became a mom that no one just nobody mentioned them to you?

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I know people mention things that you're like, you're going to love them so much. You'll never understand that.

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You don't really conceptually understand that until you see them. But things that like people absolutely did not tell you about motherhood.

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Yeah. So I was definitely told that, you know, it will sanctify you or grow you.

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My dad was always telling me that the two things that the two main ways that God matures people just outside of his word in the church is marriage and having kids.

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So I expected to be matured. I didn't expect the ways in which that would happen.

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And I think experientially, the thing that has surprised me the most is that they really are little mirrors.

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And you're told that that's not like a secret. Right. But then once you experience it and they're little mirrors, not even in just like I think a lot of people say that they mean like, well, they look like you and they have your

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DNA and they might act like you. I mean, they're mirrors in real time. I mean that when you have a sour disposition, they will have a sour disposition.

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If you want to know really and engage the temperature of your household, look at your kids and they'll actually tell you just by observing their behavior.

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You will learn what where you're at. Yeah. And so that one, it surprised me how it surprised me how related they are to you.

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And I think a lot of times we live in this like really materialistic world where when you say things like that, you're really thinking like DNA temperament.

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But like, no, I mean, real time spiritually, the impact that you have on your children in this moment is huge.

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I mean, it's just massive. Like supernatural. Yeah. You can't really you can't you really can't overstate it.

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Right. So that was the first one. The second one was I just was not prepared.

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And again, this is something you learn experientially. I don't think I was prepared for actually unveiling how selfish

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I am. So actually learning that all the things that I think

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I'm entitled to, like your children really show you that. Right. And it starts like every day.

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Every day. Hour. It starts with your body. Yeah. Sharing your body with another person like for a really long time.

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Right. And if you nurse like for a really long time. And even after that,

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I mean, you know, women talk a lot about like feeling touched out and that is a real thing.

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Right. And having to do that joyfully might be more difficult or less difficult for some people.

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And that's fine. But really just that you all day long are a conduit of life for another person is so humbling.

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And it really will show you how selfish you are. That you're a lot of times you're not willing to give up your sleep or your body or your time or your wardrobe or your, you know, just so many things.

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And so I feel like these are. It's not necessarily that nobody had ever said, oh, motherhood is hard.

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But these very specific ways really surprised me. Yeah. I think a lot of times it just sometimes maybe people don't think it's polite conversation.

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But they're like afraid maybe to admit that. Right. And, you know, I just think it's

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I mean, there's tenfold lessons you can learn from these things. Obviously, I would assume that once you see your selfishness, you realize it's your job to go to war with it and to do it joyfully.

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And that's part of the work of motherhood that a lot of people don't talk about.

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And it should be talked about. And we should be equipping our daughters to learn how to do that now.

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So it's a big it's a big job. But those two really those surprised me.

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And even if I had heard them before, the the the gravity of it. Yeah. Was surprising.

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Yeah. Wow. Amen to that. I I can echo that in every single.

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Yeah. OK. Now I've got another question for you. What would only someone who's lived with you something that only someone who's lived with you know, like your parents or old roommate or your husband, like kids?

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What would only they know about you? One little fun fact. So I actually I asked my husband and he had two really weird ones.

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The first and I just think this is normal. But he said the fact that I he thinks you guys don't know this.

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I don't know why you wouldn't like scream in your sleep. It's the thrashing.

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The thrashing. The thrashing in my sleep. He said the fact that I use a toe separator.

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What? For like a pedicure. When do you use it?

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OK. So. So. I'm like, are you?

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It's this little like silicone. I'm wearing it right now. Not right now. I only wear it at home. You put it between.

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It's like two silicone things and you put it between your toes. Like when you're getting a pedi.

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No. OK. All the time. Is what she's saying. No, just 15 minutes a day. But is it like the pedicure one?

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What does it do? It gives you a good foot stretch. Oh, OK. But like you really can't get otherwise.

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OK. Like it's, you know. So you stretch. You can't just like do this with your toes.

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Right. I mean, some of you weirdos probably can. Yeah. I can with one. You've got the weird.

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So all that to say, I wear a toast. Like it feels good. It's like. Maybe not enough of us are stretching our toes.

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You know, somebody might be listening right now and be like, I also toe stretch. And they feel comforted by this.

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Or somebody that it's having, you know, some issues in that area. If you have feet issues and want to stretch, just get on Amazon and get you some toe separators.

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Good to know. OK. All right. The other one is that whenever I put a book, like pick a book up or put a book down,

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I sniff it. On both ends. On both ends. And if it's the book

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I've been reading for the last week, I'm still like I picked it up. And then before I say goodnight to it.

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I've seen this happen. Does it smell like coffee or like Cheetos? Well, just the smelling. It's a good book. You know, just the.

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So. I thought it might smell like whatever's on your hand, you know. No, it smells like a book. Oh. It's paper and ink.

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Yeah. Like the best and binding. And it's just. And I will like a book more or less based on how it smells.

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Good to know. Matthew did. My husband ordered a book the other day and he could tell.

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He was like, this was in some hippie shop because there. It smells like incense. So. It's a real.

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It's a thing. Yeah. So now our listeners know. Yeah. That's what I'm doing at night. I'm laying there sniffing my books.

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What you do in your 30s. Well, thank you. You know, I didn't do that in my 30s.

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I'm 39. But, you know, I have a lot. It's not too late. Yeah. You're not done yet.

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Yeah. I do. I do audio books mostly. So it'd be like I'd be. Yeah. Don't smell your phone.

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It's gross. Not good. Especially after my kids have been touching it all day.

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Yeah. Pass on that. Yeah. All right. How about joy? Joy, you've been a part of Apologia Studios and Apologia Church since its inception.

20:11

So go ahead and back up and tell me a little testimony about how you became a

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Christian. And you already kind of covered why you wanted to start

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Sheologians, but maybe like your take on that. And then I'm going to ask you the same question. OK. Yeah. Yeah.

20:28

Well, I would say, obviously, James White is not my dad. That's a fairly big difference between.

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He's a father in the faith. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yes. But yeah,

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I grew up mainly with my mom who did an excellent job providing me like knowledge about the

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Bible. And of course, I knew. So I had that sort of like classic training where, you know, the stories and, you know, but not like she taught me application.

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But the churches we went to were a little. Well, theologically,

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I wouldn't agree with some of the churches that we went to, but not like nothing crazy or heretical.

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I mean, borderline. Yeah. But say no more.

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Basically, I was just I like so many of us.

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I was a product of public school and. Just random child kid church workers doing the best they could or reading off the sheet that they were given or whatever, you know.

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And I would say that the the disservice that that did for me is that there was a moment where I had to learn in my teens that my own.

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Just because I have a personal belief, it doesn't mean it's true.

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And so I was kind of just under the the assumption I just had really bad theology.

22:11

I well, and I don't sometimes it's hard when you've grown up in the church and maybe the discipleship or the theology was a little bit lacking.

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It's hard to know exactly when you were saved. Sure. But I definitely

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I noticed quite a bit of difference when I was about 16. And then, you know, you kind of I think

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I did sort of what most teenagers do, which is also keep a lot of stuff just private, like my own personal development and what

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I was learning. So it was all just kind of me privately mining for ideas that I liked.

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And basically, what I ended up with was that all human beings are good. And basically, if they're just given the opportunities to promote goodness and given a fair shot, people would prove ultimately that they're good.

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And really what that led to was me looking around and coming to the conclusion that Christianity was sort of just a nice tradition, a way that good people had the means to be good or better or whatever.

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And that was obviously very wrong. And there was a large turning point for me was a close friend of mine, my best friend at the time, came out to me.

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And that was really that was the first moment where it became very clear to me that, like, the

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Bible says one thing about this, but then she's telling me that she prayed to God about it and he said it was

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OK. And so I had I basically realized, like, like there's some inconsistency here.

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Like both things can't be true. Right. And in a weird like in a very fiery way,

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God definitely brought me to my knees just in his consistency.

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And what's been I mean, it's been, I think, really an important part of my testimony is just truth and where it comes from and how do you know it's true and sort of the ability to critically think through that.

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I was always a very smart kid, but I was just making it up as I went.

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Right. And that's not what that's what a lot of people do these days.

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But it has a very tragic end and a very foolish. It looks very foolish while you're acting it out.

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And so I basically my friend coming out to me and we did this, our youth group did a

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Doctrines of Grace series. Oh, really? And I went to we went to a reformed church, but it didn't

25:18

I wasn't always super clear on what that meant. I basically knew predestination. And it was when we went through total depravity.

25:30

A lot of kids in this group had a lot of issues with that. And then the other the rest of it, too.

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And there was lots of like, well, we're not robots kind of talk. But what's interesting is I was hearing

25:44

I was being taught the Doctrines of Grace and I was like, huh, that actually makes a lot of sense.

25:53

Like it actually makes more sense if God is who he says he is and not who

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I like, whatever I come up with. Right. Yeah. And so, again, like my my perceptions and my view of what's true and what's real was challenged.

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But this time it just kind of it's almost like it just kind of clicked into place. And I was like, oh, wait a minute.

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Oh, I'm not God. God, like what God says is what's true.

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And when I read the word, I see his consistency from long, long ago.

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Right. Yeah. To, you know, to now in my own life. And and that was just it was basically just me.

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You know, it was God changing me. And like I said, I don't know exactly when that change took place, but I had the benefit of meeting

26:49

Jeff. Jeff started coming to the church that I was attending. And I don't I don't think that knowing the doctrines of grace like didn't radically change me into a wholly obedient, free kid.

27:02

And I still struggled and challenged was challenged quite a bit. And a lot of times

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I tried I attempted to do that alone and handle that by myself, which may

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I don't want to paint that as some like tragic, heroic thing like it was pride. And that's the reason

27:20

I did that. But I had I've had the pleasure and blessing to sit under some serious discipleship.

27:29

And sometimes I think I should know more. Sometimes I I'm just grateful for the blessing.

27:38

Not everybody gets plopped in to the situation that I did. And it's of course, the reason for that is it's not plopping.

27:47

It's intentional, sovereign placement. And yeah, it's very it's always interesting to look back at your testimony and see because at the time you just don't you don't know where you're headed.

27:59

And even now I still know so little of it. But to know more. And so, yeah,

28:05

I guess if if if you're if the importance for you,

28:11

Summer, and Sheologians is like the emotional control. I think a lot of the ministry that I'm interested in is is that that truth.

28:23

How do we know what we know and how do we that's it's just we talk about on Sheologians all the time also, as well as emotional control and emotional maturity.

28:36

But yeah, that's really I think that it's so it'll change your life. Knowing what's right and what's wrong.

28:44

Right. And what's reliable and what's real will change your entire life.

28:50

Yeah. It really and it's not just yeah, it's supernatural. It's not just like reading a book and be like, oh, this is

28:56

I love this part. Right. It affects all areas of our life. Including like being a wife and a mother.

29:03

Right. A citizen or, you know, a neighbor, a church member. Okay. Well, and you just you have to get it right.

29:11

Yeah. Like if you don't get it right, like I said, it there's it's tragic. Like either in the ending or as it plays out.

29:19

Right. Yeah. And that's I'm going to actually bring that up after I ask you two questions.

29:25

That's going to segue good into our next subject. But okay. So before you have a little baby,

29:31

Georgia, how old is she now? She'll be two in September. Oh my goodness. I know. Time flies. Yeah.

29:36

It's wild. So she was just born. But also. Yeah, I know. I feel like we were just at your baby shower.

29:41

I'm not kidding. Yeah. And you you are married to Mr. Matthew Hunter, who's kind of like a legend in our church amongst 10 year old boys.

29:52

Like, for sure. You don't know how many times like randomly his name comes up in our house. Like, oh, yeah, we'll be on a walk.

29:59

There'll be a stick on the ground. And Liam will be like, Matthew could make fire right now.

30:06

Oh, the other night, like my kids were running outside trying to identify something. And then they couldn't.

30:11

And they came inside and they were like, well, just ask Matthew. Yeah. That's like the answer. Just ask Matthew. Like, oh, look at that plant.

30:18

And I'm like, oh, isn't that beautiful with flowers? Like, Liam's like, yeah, well, if Matthew was here, he'd tell us if we could eat it or not.

30:24

Right. So he's kind of a hero. Okay. So. He is.

30:29

It's really true. What two things did you not know about motherhood that you've learned in the last two years that nobody warned you about?

30:41

Okay. So the first one I have is sort of a heartwarming one. And then

30:47

I also wrote one down that I could only think this thing, but I don't know how loud

30:53

I am to say it. You can say it. Okay. Yeah. This is provoked. So the first thing that I thought of was that nobody told me that the first time

31:06

I heard Georgia laugh, that I would be like a different person. Oh, yeah. And I remember

31:12

I have like such a distinct memory of it. And I was like crying while it was happening. And I just remember thinking, like,

31:18

I can't possibly be the same. I just can't. The world just changed. Yeah.

31:24

Yeah. People can't articulate that moment, though. It's like it's so intense that you have to.

31:30

Yeah. And yeah, you're just not. It has to change you. It just has to. Your guys' answers are so much better than mine.

31:37

Keep going. Okay. And so this is something that I wasn't told.

31:46

I don't. Okay. I'm not going to explain it. I'm just going to say. Just say it. There are two kinds of kids in this world.

31:52

Oh, there are kids who think that their own poop is gross and scary.

32:00

Uh -huh. And then there are kids that think it's. Paint. They've created a sensory artistic medium.

32:08

Uh -huh. And those are the two kinds of kids there are. Yep. I can say that's true. It is very much my pleasure.

32:15

Yeah. To have one. The first kind? That thinks it's yucky. Okay. And scary.

32:20

So far. Well, I don't know about my third, but yeah. Uh -huh. Yeah. I'm not going to out mine.

32:27

Yeah. But she's right. Yeah. She's not wrong. Actually, mine has to do with just feces.

32:32

Like, you guys were so sweet. And I'm like, no one ever told me, like, how much feces you'd be dealing with on a daily basis.

32:39

Like, so much. So much. And then when your kids want more. Like, we have two dogs. And then my son's like, can we get a lizard too?

32:46

And I'm like, my poop meter is like. You've reached your max. Caps out. Yeah.

32:52

You cannot do anymore. Right. And then my other one is nobody ever warned me about.

32:57

Actually, I have two. I'm going for three. So mine aren't as good as your guys's. So I'll just go for it. But no one ever warned me about sippy cups.

33:04

It's the bane of my existence. They're the worst. It happens all the time. So you go from this thing works pretty good.

33:11

Yeah. There's no in between. Like, it's kind of trickling. It's destroyed. It goes to explosion.

33:18

Like, it's not only not spill proof, it's like a nuke went off. It's dangerous. It has shards of plastic breaking off of it.

33:26

It's got spoiled milk in it. Like, there is no good. No. It doesn't get better, does it?

33:31

No. No. So I've had my first one 10 years ago. The sippy cup situation has not gotten better.

33:39

And then I have a four -year -old, almost four -year -old, and almost one -year -old. I don't care who you are.

33:45

You tell me you have the best sippy cup in the world. I don't believe you. You're lying. Every single one is bad. There is no good sippy cup.

33:51

Yeah. Even the other day, we were at, like, Costco, and there was, like, this three -pack. And they're not cheap.

33:56

You know, you get, like, four or five bucks for, like, a cheaper one, sometimes 10 bucks. Anyways, we're at Costco, and I'm like, whoa, there's a three -pack that looked good for $6.

34:06

And I'm like, wow, those look amazing. Why are those $6? I should get, like, five.

34:12

Well, I'll just get, you know, the three -pack and see how that. No. It was, like, two days.

34:17

They made these little plugs on there that they are gone. And once they're gone. They don't work. Yeah.

34:23

It's not only, like, it's spilling. It's like a geyser coming out. And so you're like, oh, OK. I guess the people that design sippy cups hate parents.

34:31

That's my conspiracy. There is none good. No, not one. They were confused. But it's just in case anyone's wondering, the sippy cup is the liquid supposed to stay inside.

34:41

Right. So if you're a new parent, and you're thinking about becoming a parent, just know the sippy cups.

34:49

The cup situation is just always the worst. Water only. Right. Water only. And then, also, over the weekend, we went.

34:57

We didn't buy anything. But we just started looking at furniture. Because ours is just getting super old. And our dogs have destroyed it.

35:03

So we just went to, like, a furniture warehouse store. That is brave. With kids.

35:09

I've never seen anything like it. They probably had so much fun. They had the most fun. They did. You basically took them to a jungle gym.

35:15

I know. And I'm like, hey, we're in Arizona. It's AC. Like, I want them to run. That part's fine.

35:21

But then it became like they had my phone doing a whole, like, show about what they were looking at, pretending,

35:28

OK, that's fine, too. Then they're going by the breakable stuff. Then, simultaneously, the salespeople are like, let's show you.

35:35

Talking your hair off. And then they're playing baseball with, like, bases. And I'm like, please. So yeah, those are the things that nobody told me is.

35:42

People tell me. Those are practical tips. You're going to love your child. So you practically know that.

35:47

Like, OK, like, I'm not sure I'm going to love my child. But you don't really know what that love is like until you look at that little face, you know?

35:54

Yeah. Or just the stress. I still barely can understand it. No. Yeah. Yeah. Or just, like you said, like, the amount of time and just that your whole life becomes these kids.

36:06

Oh, yeah. It totally changes. Your focus changes. And I just think it's so cool because, like, at some point, eventually, like, they're coming along with you.

36:15

Right. And, like, in everything, like, they are a part of what you're doing. Mm -hmm. And I'm starting to see little glimpses of how, like, there's going to be a real, like, your bond changes as they grow.

36:28

Right. And just each stage is different and special in a different way. Right. And, like, all of this seems, as I'm saying, it's like, duh.

36:35

Like, it's so obvious. But you just don't. But when you experience it. Yeah. It's like, wow, this is really cool. Right.

36:41

Like, I couldn't understand, like, I had one child, Liam, for until he was six.

36:47

Right. He was my only child. And I just, oh, my gosh, I've never been so in love with something in my entire life.

36:53

And I'm like, how could I love another child like this? And then God gave me two more. Yeah. And I love them just as much.

36:59

And it's just incredible how God makes a mother's heart grow. So, anyways.

37:05

Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for sharing all that with me. Let's get into our topics. So, first topic is about theology.

37:14

Why is it important that Christians have a clear understanding of who God is, according to the scriptures, in the area of evangelism, child rearing, and marriage?

37:23

And so, you can, one of you chime in or whatever, however you want to do it. You can start and just whoever wants to take on a subject.

37:35

Read that for me one more time. You can start with the first one. Maybe we should do that. Why is it important that Christians have a clear understanding on who

37:42

God is, according to the scriptures, in the area of evangelism, child rearing, marriage?

37:49

And, you know, for our show, we talk a lot about, you know, the abortion holocaust and our current cultural climate.

37:57

But let's just, maybe let's just stick to these three subjects because we could probably talk for a long, long time about that.

38:04

So, in the area of evangelism, just the proclamation of God's word, child rearing, and marriage.

38:12

Well, I would say that it's important because contrary to popular belief, you actually do have to have like a standard of how to do something in order to do it well.

38:25

Right. It's like what I was talking about earlier. It's a matter of knowing what you're doing versus making it up as you go.

38:36

And a lot of people have made, they've made a lot of mistakes.

38:43

And through that, I think there's been a lot of traditions that have crept into more cultural

38:51

Christianity. And what you end up with is a totally different religion.

38:58

Sure. Basically, a cult that claims to worship the same God as you, but doesn't, doesn't use the

39:08

Bible to do it. So it creates a totally different false God. Right.

39:15

I mean, that covers kind of all of it, right? Right. Yeah. I think too, you know, that really dumb phrase,

39:25

Let go, let God. That's, yes, that one's super, super dumb. Love is love. Preach the gospel, if necessary, use words of love.

39:33

Thank you. Ooh, hate that one. We just needed a little telepathy to go. We have been known to.

39:40

Like, I'm like, I don't know what it is. And she's like, oh, it's this one. Yeah. That one. Me and Zach do that too. Like, he'll say something and I'll like finish.

39:46

He's like, how did you know that? Because I knew that's where you were going. So that phrase is stupid.

39:54

We preach, we're commanded to preach the gospel and to use words. And it's the word, it's the gospel that is the power of God that saves.

40:03

So words are necessary. I would like to believe that there is a nugget of truth in there that maybe people are making bigger than it should be.

40:14

But what I mean by that is that part of the

40:19

Great Commission is this idea of as you are going, you are sharing the gospel.

40:25

Right. So I think a lot of when we compartmentalize, evangelism is.

40:30

And then the only thing you imagine is standing on a street corner, passing things out or calling out.

40:38

Right. You are misunderstanding what evangelism is. Right. So I think a lot of women in particular have difficulty because they want to maybe spend more time out doing street evangelism, which is a great use of time.

40:56

Sure. And really missing the evangelism day to day that God has put in front of them.

41:02

Right. So you are a gospel witness in everything that you do.

41:08

Right. How you drive. Right. And not that how you drive is going to save somebody, but your belief in the gospel should affect how you drive.

41:18

And care about your neighbor. How you shop. Even how you take care of your house because your house is probably close to somebody else's house.

41:27

So even in all these little ways, there's all these opportunities every day to be living in a way that people should want to ask you.

41:37

Yeah. Like why are you living the way that you're living? It's different. They should notice. Because the gospel changes you.

41:43

Right. Yeah. And it changes everything. It should change everything that you put your hand to. And so we'll get that question a lot.

41:51

Like how do you guys do evangelism when you have kids? And it's like, well, that's my biggest mission field.

41:57

That's your biggest opportunity right now. My home is my mission field. It's a mission field.

42:03

You're supposed to use it to bless your kids and to bless your husband and to bless your church. Right. And to bless your neighborhood.

42:11

So there's always – man, I really think we've got it so messed up that we think that's not big enough.

42:18

Right. Or good enough. Absolutely. Well, that's one of those weird – it's one of those traditions. Like that there are certain stations that are more holy or like there's more – there's versions of evangelism that are more real.

42:32

Evangelism -y. Right. Like you've reached a new level. Yeah. That's just a weird – that's a weird definition.

42:40

That we – someone just kind of – and even like you said, there may have at one point been like some nugget of truth there because there is – it is different to evangelize with your family versus out on the street.

42:56

Right. They are different. But somewhere along the line, we – You're still sharing the same message.

43:02

Yeah. The sentiment that you should live in such a way that it's obvious is true. But, of course, not preaching the gospel.

43:10

You can't evangelize without preaching the gospel. Sure. I think it's – I actually was thinking about this the other day and I was thinking about how like – so if you don't – so us humans, like the work that we've been given to do is to preach the gospel and that's the means of – that's like how

43:26

God uses us to carry out his plan. But people just want to be a testimony and basically be responsible for like the supernatural change that it would take to change someone's heart.

43:39

Right. And so in that moment – and, I mean, maybe just make sure you're not doing this.

43:46

I don't want to call anyone out too much on someone else's show. But I was just thinking like –

43:51

I was thinking like your job is to use the words. That's actually your job.

43:57

That's the job that was given to you and then God will – God is the one that is supernaturally changing the heart.

44:02

So like don't get your duty mixed up because you'll actually end up trying to mind

44:08

God's business instead of your own. He provides the increase. One plants, the other waters.

44:14

You be faithful and he does all the work. Yeah. I would say too I've been – I've seen the other side of the pendulum.

44:20

Like we went to a bigger church some years ago now that like the work of evangelism in the house was like kind of the only thing you did and then the pastor did the kind of public evangelism.

44:36

So you were really called to just – Because the church service is the evangelism. So it's like your job is to share the faith with your children and maybe your neighbors maybe if you've earned their –

44:48

Right. If you've earned their mutual respect. And then kind of the public proclamation is that's for the pastors and you just invite people to church and they do all the heavy lifting.

45:01

So it's just another contortion of like that's for just a certain people and it was almost looked at as if you were out like – because Don and I would just go to like their trolleys with Liam and just talk to people and share the gospel with them like simply.

45:17

It was nothing fancy or elaborate, just simple. But that was kind of like you guys are kind of weirdos.

45:25

Wow. Yeah. Just because the people at that church didn't do that. You invited people to church.

45:31

So I think that happens also a lot in America where it's like a lot of people are just called to invite people to church and go to some big show and let the pastors hopefully share the gospel.

45:43

And a lot of times it's not. It's just some motivational message. The idea is it doesn't involve discipleship or any sort of like steadfast relationship.

45:54

Right. It's just like, okay, we got to get this people in. We got to get their ticket punched. And then if we can keep a high retention, that's great.

46:02

Yeah. But so we need to create new Christians every service.

46:08

Right. And people don't like sharing the gospel. I mean, even with family members, sometimes we talk about this a lot.

46:15

That's the hardest to share is with like family members, but also like it's uncomfortable. It's hard going and just talking to a stranger and telling them they're dead in their sins and they've offended a holy

46:27

God and they need to repent. It's not easy. And so a lot of times in order to keep people at their church, they don't want to challenge them to say, no, you have the spirit of God living in you.

46:38

You don't have to be a street preacher on the box, but you are called to bring that gospel into conflict with people around you.

46:46

For now, it might be your kids and your immediate, but also you're going to maybe run into other people too at the grocery store or whatever in your life, wherever God has put you in your workplace.

46:56

You are supposed to share the gospel. So yeah, us humans, we just like to mess things up.