March 22, 2019 Show with Rich Jensen on “What Does Discipleship Look Like & What Does It Mean to Abide in Christ? (John 14-17)”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

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To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth

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We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio

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Wishing you all a happy Friday on this 22nd day of March 2019 and I'm thrilled to have back on the program a dear friend of mine that I've known for many years going back to The 1980s and I am so delighted to have him as a returning guest on iron sharpens iron radio

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His name is pastor Rich Jensen, and he pastors Hope Reform Baptist Church now of Coram, Long Island, New York previously having served in the

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Medford and before that the Farmingville Long Island area and In fact, they are going to be having an event this

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Sunday Sunday afternoon at 3 p .m I believe a dedication service for their new building in Coram, Long Island and today

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We are going to be addressing the theme What does discipleship look like and what does it mean to abide in Christ?

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio pastor Rich Jensen It's good to be with you again,

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Chris and the pleasure is always mine brother and the email address if anybody has questions for pastor

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Rich Jensen on Discipleship on abiding in Christ or any other theological issue that you care to bring up.

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That's fine Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris Arnzen at gmail .com

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and please as always Give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence If you live outside the

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USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter Well pastor

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Rich if you could tell our listeners something about Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island Well, hope was was formed back in 1996

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We were actually a church plant from Grace Reform Baptist Church in Merrick. Yeah where I used to be.

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Yep. That's correct. And there were a group of Christians who had come to the

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Reform Doctrines and were looking around for Reform Baptist Church And there was the only one that we knew of at that particular time was

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Grace in Merrick. So With the aid of the elders and the congregation at Grace, we planted a church at that time.

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It was in Farmingville Humble beginnings, but now that we're going to be celebrating 23 years as a church this

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June Our first service was on Father's Day of June of 1996 and the

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Lord has just blessed us and as you mentioned We have just recently purchased a new building now in Coram We have a beautiful facility here that the

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Lord has provided very graciously provided for us And so we'll be having a dedication service this Sunday Great and God willing.

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I will be there brother. I am making plans as I as I speak with you Of course in between commercial breaks

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To get there and to enjoy the fellowship of the brethren there at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Long Island, New York In fact, let me now for any of you who live on Long Island or even in the

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New York Tristate area who would like to attend this event The website for Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island is hope reformed li .net

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Hope reformed li for Long Island net and All of the details are there.

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I hope to see you there this Sunday at The dedication service for the new building in Coram, Long Island for Hope Reform Baptist Church Well, I you picked

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I think a very good theme today to speak on today What does discipleship look like and what does it mean to abide in Christ the first part of that Theme I think that you would probably agree is one of the most lacking areas in Modern evangelicalism in the 21st century the the area of discipleship and discipline seems to have vanished people go to Church to not only have fun with their friends, which is always a good thing.

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There's nothing wrong with that but if if that is the sole reason or the most important reason in addition to hearing a message that may

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Solely be based on giving people An uplifted spirit and encouragement and so on This is not really what

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Christ's Church was intended to be. I'm sure you would agree But what are your comments on what

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I just said? well, of course, I agree completely and the the reason

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I chose this topic is it comes out of The study that we're doing in our Sunday morning worship service where we've been preaching through the gospel of John and we've reached that point

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We're in actually John 15 now, but at the end of John 13 when

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Judas leaves the upper room to go do his dastardly deed Jesus then turns his focus on his disciples and It's interesting.

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This is this discourse of Jesus, which is probably his last one. It's specifically private it's it's aimed just at the disciples and So the application is first and foremost to Christians now, of course, the gospel message is all through Everything that Jesus says here, but it's something that you can look at and say this is what

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Jesus says and in it He offers even various proofs for example in John 13 35 he says by this all men will know that you are my disciples if you have love for one another

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That's not the soul proof but that's one important thing and so if you look at this whole section and then as we go into John 15 and See he gives the example of of he being the vine

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We are the branches and what's the purpose of the the grapevine is to produce fruit?

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and so the whole Concept that Jesus is getting at in his last

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Discourse to his disciples before he's going to be arrested and crucified is on what does the disciple look like and in that Context is where he talks about abiding.

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You can't really Separate really not two issues. What is discipleship and abiding? Because they're wrapped up together to be a disciple.

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You must be abiding in Christ and so that's that's the context for what we're looking at and Unfortunately as you mentioned far too often in our society today what what we find is

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You know An easy road, you know, that's what people want here. Are we know three? I want three steps to this

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I want six steps to this and that's all I have to do once I do that. I'm there and That's not what

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Jesus describes what he describes is a life that is bound up in discipline in service

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To him and it begins with the hard attitudes and and that's what he's really getting at If you are abiding in his love, it it looks like a certain thing and that's what that's what this whole context is about We have a

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We have a listener in Hartsdale, New York Bobby in Hartsdale, New York who asks

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Do you think that someone who is not under church discipline should be well

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Let's see if I'm reading this, right? I think he wrote this wrongly. Let me read it the way. I think he should have wrote it

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Should you welcome those who are under church discipline in one congregation into your church

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Under any circumstance or if there are circumstances What would they be

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Okay, the general answer is no Not just you know, not just open the doors if you know that somebody is under church discipline

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I think the the new church, especially the eldership has an obligation to contact the eldership of the church that excommunicated him and and find out what the circumstances are and And then

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Enforce that that discipline because the person needs to go back to repent if you're on the church discipline

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That's that's a serious matter in the kingdom of God. That is not something to be taken lightly so Definitely.

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In fact, I can say that there was We had one situation that I can think of off the top of my head here at hope many years ago

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Where a couple came to us and they were under church discipline and we did that we called up the the old eldership that actually promoted a meeting and where that The situation was resolved and they in fact did become members of hope but only after the discipline was taken care of in a biblical way right and The person who wrote didn't say specifically that the person was excommunicated.

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They might be going under church discipline I guess there would be certain circumstances

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When if you were in agreement with the pastor that the Disciplinee is a member of like for instance if there was adultery that took place

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That church would probably want that person. I'm guessing here

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I don't know if it would always be the case but I'm sure that they would probably want that person to be attending at least temporarily another church away from the church where the the other

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Guilty party was It will is a difference I mean, I believe that any anybody even somebody who's been excommunicated should be coming into the into a church

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It's just a question of welcome them. I took the the question to mean welcome them into fellowship.

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You can't do that Okay, but even some I've even told people who we've excommunicated

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That that doesn't mean you can't sit under the preaching of the word But you just you're not a member of the church.

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You can't partake of the sacraments You can't you know, you can't enjoy the Christian fellowship, you know

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So because you want them to hear the the the gospel and in fact, that's our obligation when you when you excommunicate somebody you don't

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Cast them out and that's the end of it. All right, you want to give them the gospel you you want them to repent?

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And that will show in fact that maybe they were genuinely Christian And yes, and of course the other

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Flying the ointment here that makes the issue more complicated is there have been people who have been under discipline and excommunicated from churches wrongly because the churches themselves are cultic or Heretical in some way they may have excommunicated a person for being a

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Calvinist That's true and That's why you have to have communication between the eldership of the church

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You know if we found out that was in fact the case that somebody was excommunicated because they held

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What we would consider to be the orthodox view of Christianity, of course, we wouldn't honor that that excommunication

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That would be an unlawful and non -biblical excommunication right and Well, thank you,

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Bobby. We also have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York And by the way, I would urge both of you

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Bobby and CJ to Head down to quorum this Sunday even if you are a member of your local church where you are, this would be typically well after anyone's morning worship services, this would be a a

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Celebration of a new building that they have there in quorum, Long Island for Hope Reform Baptist Church, but CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island says what would you say are the key ingredients that would go under the heading of discipleship in a church?

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Well discipleship Begins with with bearing fruit. All right, and again,

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I'm going to refer to the analogy of Jesus with the vine The sole purpose of the branch is to bear fruit and In fact, this is actually the subject of my sermon tomorrow morning

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So so maybe hopefully maybe no none of my people are here listening because they don't know I'll surprise them tomorrow but anyway

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Is bearing fruit and That has that manifests itself in many ways the heart of bearing fruit is the fruit of the

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Spirit All right, that's Far too often. I think people tend to look at bearing fruit

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Well, that's how many converts the does that you see in the church It's the church doing outreach into the community and those type of things now

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Those are all necessary and those two are parts of being disciples But the main thing about being a disciple is being conformed to the image of Christ that's the whole idea it's a discipline and that comes by the indwelling power of the

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Holy Spirit ministering through the Word of God and changing the

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Regenerated sinner into the image of Jesus Christ. And of course that you know the fruit of the Spirit love joy peace patience, etc

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That's the primary thing and once the person has in that sanctification process

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Then that will manifest itself in outward actions Taking care of the needy visiting the shut -ins

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Doing evangelism, you know doing deeds of mercy, etc

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Well, thanks CJ keep listening there in Lindenhurst, Long Island and spreading the word about iron sharpens iron radio there and Everywhere you go well specifically

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What are the core? Lessons we are to learn from the passage in John starting in chapter 14 and ending in chapter 17

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About this issue that we are addressing What does discipleship look like in abiding in Christ, what are some of those key?

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Areas that we cannot overlook today when addressing well in in John 15 in particular

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Well, well, you know what? Let me just back up a little bit in John 14 that's you know, the heading over most

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Bible says Jesus comforts his disciples and And that while that's true.

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I Think the comfort that he's offering In these passages is not one of consoling them

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Sitting down putting it somewhere. Oh there there you poor you poor people, you know Which is what what we tend to think of when we talk about comfort because even the word that is used

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You know for the Holy Spirit another comforter was is how it's translated in in in several of the

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Bibles but It's more one of Encouragement and exhortation and spurring one to them to Christian duty.

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All right, in other words, because if you go back and to into John 14 what he's talking about is

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The ministry is going to continue even though he is gone Think about it.

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Jesus is coming and and now that Judas is gone. He's sitting down. He's washed the disciples feet

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He's getting intimate with them and he's telling them I I'm going to go and I'm not going to be with you much longer

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All right, and where I'm going you can't come All right Not right away anyway but then he goes on to encourage them, but the works that I did you're going to do and in fact, you're going to do actually greater works and That had to blow their minds

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All right, how you know, I'm sure they were thinking how am I going to even carry on the ministry without Jesus and Yet here he's telling them that they're going to do even greater and that's what he promises the

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Holy Spirit all right, and he goes into then the role of the

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Spirit and He and with many other promises. All right So we have the

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Holy Spirit Who is going to enable them to do the works that they had already begun and those works again

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I'm not talking about the miracles and the healings, although they were going to do those as well. But the primary work is

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Is the spreading and advancing the kingdom of God? That was the primary mission. That's what he tells them

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You know in the Great Commission, you know go therefore make disciples of all the nations. I mean, that's what they're told and So he gives them all these promises

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To To to encourage them and spur them on so that the comforting is not

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Again, not a negative thing. It's a very very positive thing that he's doing and He's basically telling them that with the aid of the

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Holy Spirit. They're going to be able to do it This is a doable thing. He's not sending them out on an impossible mission

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Okay, and then to then he comes to chapter 15 Where he talks about and gives them the analogy of the vine, which

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I think is one of the most intimate because Where he talks about that's where he really brings in this concept of abiding.

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What does it mean to abide in me in? order to accomplish the task that the church has been given there has to be this relationship in Christ and that's one of abiding and Some of the translations do they say you you know remain in me and I think that's just a little too weak the

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The words that use there really means to to reside we even get the word abode, you know

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My abode from the same word. It looks same Latin word that comes from this chapter.

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So we're talking about abiding in Christ and understanding that That relationship is necessary we can't do anything of ourselves and Jesus makes that clear apart from me.

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You can do nothing. All right, but the converse from that is But with me you can do something

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Everybody can do something Everybody's got a role to play in the kingdom of God, but it's

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We always have to remember that it's only through the power of the Holy Spirit as the word is being ministered

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Because of the relationship we have in Christ what he has done for his on the gun the cross so that's that's the key to the whole thing and all the outward

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Fruit come from that that changed heart and the relationship that we have in Christ You can't you you know, the church is never going to accomplish its mission unless It's about the business of making disciples

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Because and again the wording of that Great Commission is very important It's it's go therefore make disciples that's the that's the main verb, you know in that in that passage is the disciple making and We do that by How by you know by preaching the word baptizing and teaching that's all that's all part of it but the main thing is making disciples that means

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Disciplined workers who are going to carry on the same work that Jesus began while he was here on earth

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Would you not say that In many respects. This is at the core of what?

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separates true and false Christianity because you have some in fact much of modern evangelicalism that is only concerned with quote -quote getting people saved and Very often what they're doing is they're not even getting people saved of course, we know that only

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God gets people saved but he uses us as his means to to proclaim the gospel to evangelize and so on but People are very often going to these

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Warehouses called churches and they are just being comforted that they are saved when they're still lost and there is no discipleship going on No, you're absolutely right and that flies in the face of the entire teaching specifically of the

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New Testament, but of the whole Bible itself is that you can't have True conversion can't have true

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Christianity without a change you know those who would You know the old him just as I am

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That's the only way you can come you can only come as you are. You can't do anything to come to Christ He has to draw you but once you're in Christ, there must be change

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If there is no change, you know, I think the Puritans used to say, you know, no holiness.

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No heaven if you are not progressive in your sanctification and And making progress

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Again through the power of the Holy Spirit as he ministers the word to your heart you affect change in in your own life, and that's the primary fruit bearing and That's what's going to enable you and prepare you to doing the work

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That he has called us to do Well, we have to go to our first commercial break right now if anybody would like to join us with a question

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For pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church on the issue of discipleship and on the issue of abiding in Christ or any issue really involving theology and doctrine and Christianity our email address is

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Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com We ask of you to please give us your first name city and state and country of residence at least

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Citizenpriest .com visit citizenpriest .com today Welcome back.

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This is Chris Arnzen If you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go

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Is pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York We are discussing what does discipleship look like and what does it mean to abide in Christ?

32:38

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. If you have a question Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

32:44

Please give us as always your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the

32:49

USA We have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York and Ronald asks,

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I know that there is a difference between confessional Baptist churches on Who they grant membership to?

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obviously baptism by all the believer by immersion is required for most Baptist churches and a and a credible profession of faith, of course but the issue regards how much of the 1689

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London Baptist Confession of Faith a Membership candidate would have to agree with sometimes

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I think churches insist upon too much, especially when it comes to new believers I have considered it the best method to Allow into membership people you believe to be truly born again as long as they submit to the fact that the teachings of the confession are the official standard for the congregation and not expect a new convert to grow leaps and bounds within a short period of time to Comprehend and embrace all that is in the confession.

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What is your opinion? That's a great question Yeah, we are in fact a confessional

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Reformed Baptist Church our doctrine doctoral statement is the 1689 London Baptist Confession and and we are a a full subscription church

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In other words the the office bearers of the church must subscribe to the

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London Baptist Confession fully however That is that is not the standard that we use for all members and especially new believers do

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For in fact, you can't really expect Even some more mature members to fully grasp the 1689

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I mean that that document is is an amazing document as it was cast and Theologians still debate certain aspects of it

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So I would agree in principle with you it's it's we would do it on a case -by -case basis

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Certainly somebody who is willing to submit to the teaching Would would be welcome here in membership

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We what we do in our church is we go through a membership class where we actually work through the 1689 chapter -by -chapter takes a couple of months and Just to equate them with the basic tenets of the 1689 and that would weed out anybody who would object to one of the

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Chapters that we would call essential for membership we have

35:32

RJ in White Plains, New York who has a similar question RJ in White Plains, New York asks

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I Have heard that there are many reformed Baptist churches who waffle on the necessity for submitting to Baptism by immersion as a believer when it comes to certain members who are

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Presbyterian To me, it seems like favoritism and it doesn't seem to me like you're doing anyone a favor by basically aiding them in disobeying

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God With the true ordinance of baptism, I mean no mean -spiritedness Toward my

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Presbyterian brothers and sisters. I love them. I benefit much from them and Welcome them in the pulpit of the church where I am.

36:20

I look forward to hearing them preach, etc but I think that we should not waffle on the ordinances of the church just because someone may be a dear brother and sister in Christ and closely believe to what we agree upon So what is your opinion on that?

36:37

Did a reformed Baptist church ever say to a Presbyterian, well, you could become a member Even though you've never been baptized in the biblical way.

36:44

In fact, you've never been baptized at all when you think about it But because I know that that is done

36:52

On occasion, I don't know about every reformed Baptist Church, but what is your opinion on that? Yeah, well, we've we've never been faced with that Position and probably because in our locality there are several good

37:07

Presbyterian churches a couple Orthodox Presbyterian churches and So we've never been faced with that where somebody comes over again

37:15

I would say that I would do that on a case -by -case basis. I can't imagine that we would

37:21

Accept into membership somebody who had never been baptized because that's right in our

37:26

Confessions right in our Constitution But we could certainly make allowances if there was no

37:34

You know solid biblical Presbyterian churches in our vicinity and we had somebody who wanted to attend there

37:40

I'm sure that we would make some sort of allowances, but I Don't know if we could go so far

37:47

We would examine it on a case -by -case basis, but I can't imagine that we would allow into membership somebody who is not baptized great

37:57

Let's see we have We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania and Susan Margaret says

38:07

I believe in the complementarian understanding of Authority in the church.

38:14

I believe that only men should be rulers in their homes and in the congregation

38:21

But I think that often when it comes to discipleship Women are being overlooked as the ones that the

38:29

Bible Subscribes to disciple younger women. Do you agree with this? Do you think that more older women should be involved in the discipling of young ladies in the church?

38:41

Absolutely, it's a Titus two mandate. I think I don't think that's even a question that the older women have the obligation to do that Would you agree with what she said that do you think it's perhaps even in our circles more than any?

38:55

That's overlooked because of the fact that we do have a very strict understanding of male headship in the home and in the church

39:02

Do you think that we are guilty as she is in some way guilty of overlooking that that aspect of discipleship?

39:11

I can't speak for other churches, but I don't think so here We have a number of older women who are doing that job very in an excellent way

39:23

I Think it's time for another cup of tea. What do you think? Well, thank you

39:32

Susan Margaret Keep listening and keep spreading the word about iron sharp and siren radio. They're Dauphin County, Pennsylvania and beyond Let's see here.

39:42

We have Arnie and Perry County, Pennsylvania Who wants to know do you think that?

39:50

Sometimes a church is harmed when it comes to discipleship when they do not interact enough with other like -minded churches and they become an island unto themselves and Therefore you have pastors who do not have the appropriate fellowship and accountability with other pastors

40:11

To be the best in their ability to disciple others And I he's

40:19

He's specifically referring to it is obvious the fact that we who are Baptists believe in the autonomy of the local church

40:28

That there is no hierarchical authority outside of the local elders other than God himself and the

40:35

Holy Scriptures, of course So does that is that a bad thing when a

40:40

Baptist Church or other any other kind of independent minded church does not have Interaction with other congregations were locked like -minded does it does the discipling process suffer?

40:52

Yes, I would I would agree with that. I think it's not just a discipleship Process, but I think the whole church suffers in the whole ministry of the church

41:02

We need to you know, I mean being a Christian is is communal Well, yes, we do agree that that the individual churches

41:11

You know that their government should be autonomous in the sense that it only under the

41:16

Lordship of Christ But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't have fellowship and accountability to others

41:22

There's there's great benefit that just give me one second Chris, okay Sure, and I'll take this time to repeat our email address if anybody would like to join us

41:33

Our email address is Chris Lawrence in a gmail .com. Please. Give us your first name at least your city and state

41:41

Your country of residence if you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter

41:49

That's Chris Arnzen a gmail .com Chris a RNZ and a gmail .com.

41:54

Okay, Richard. You ready? Yes, I'm back In fact what we have here on Long Island, we have we call it to learn on its virgin fellowship

42:02

And that's where we get together as pastors once every two months from all those who are somewhat like -minded at least

42:11

Calvinistic in their soteriology and we we minister to one another we engage in certain projects and conferences together and So and we found that to be very helpful.

42:23

In fact at our dedication service, which will be this Sunday we have Ministers from some of the local churches who will be speaking giving a charge to the congregation

42:33

Etc of those type of things and that's very very beneficial Yes, amen and Let's see here we have a question

42:46

From Christian in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York and Christian says how important if at all do you think it is?

42:57

for churches and pastors to have fellowship and Relationships with Christians outside of their immediate circles of theology and Confessional expressions.

43:11

I have learned much from those outside of my exclusive Calvinistic circles not that I would ever for a minute waiver on any of the principles

43:21

I believe or become soft on them I just think that it can be unwise to only fellowship with a very tight circle of People who agree with us on every jot and tittle.

43:37

Well, I mean, I think we do have to have fellowship, but it Depends on what you're talking about having friendships and acquaintances and doing things, but when it comes to actually doing

43:51

Items of ministry you are somewhat limited for example somebody who is not

43:58

Calvinistic in their soteriology Is going to evangelize in a much different way than somebody who is and so that may not be the best type of thing but if you want to talk about walking on a

44:12

Somewhat, you know a protest line over an abortion mill, of course anybody can do that But I think we do have to be somewhat selective in Where you engage?

44:24

You know people who are substantially different in their theory of theology than you are I can say that I agree with I think the direction our listener is coming from obviously

44:39

There should always be guardrails around The levels of fellowship that you have with people that disagree with you.

44:46

You're not going to let somebody teach very important doctrines from a pulpit in your church that disagree with your own confessional standard

45:00

But having said that I have learned From close friendships. I've learned from brothers and sisters in Christ who are

45:08

Arminian and so on not necessarily theology but some of them have been

45:15

Profound and have put me to shame In fact many of them have in that in regards to their obedience to Christ their holiness

45:25

You can have an Arminian brother was a far better husband than you are a far better Father than you are a far better son to a parent than you are and you know,

45:37

I could go on and on and where you? could learn From you know, just viewing and experiencing the way that they live and so on wouldn't you agree that sometimes?

45:47

Since we are convinced that our theology is correct And of course, I don't think that people should go around doubting their theology

45:54

But we could be so convinced of our theology That it overshadows anything else involved in the

46:01

Christian life and we can become haughty. We could become arrogant we can Totally dismiss any other brother or sister just because they don't agree with us on our confession

46:10

Would you would you say am I off base here? No, I agree with you.

46:15

I mean I have close friends who are pastors in charismatic churches and You know, they're very godly men we have some very serious differences, but But again, it's not something that I would allow them into my church to preach or to teach.

46:32

I just can't do that I have to guard my pulpit. Oh, of course Yes, and I think that that was a part of what our listener was saying and what

46:40

I what I just said as well Yeah, well, that's why there's like certain levels There's different spheres if you will of fellowship that we have like for instance

46:49

I'm sure that you would jump at every opportunity to have

46:54

Sinclair Ferguson preach at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Quorum, Long Island, but at the same time

47:00

You wouldn't want him teaching that infant baptism is the appropriate manner with which we are to administer the church ordinance of baptism and on and on I could go about things like that sure

47:15

No, I would agree completely We have Susan in Setauket, Long Island, she says hi pastor

47:23

Jensen. I was wondering how often Actually, let me back up a couple of words.

47:28

I misread this. I was wondering how the often controversial doctrine of election in the

47:35

Calvinist sense works for and sometimes against discipling others

47:45

Okay It obviously works for discipling others. It's the gospel right and I'm assuming

47:53

That you would agree that I don't know if Susan is

47:59

Saying this in defense or in opposition to election the way the Calvinists understand it But you could have a

48:05

Calvinist and there are many out there. I'm sure you've had Entanglements or confrontations with some of them

48:13

That are totally abusing and Misusing the way a

48:19

Christian should present the doctrines of unconditional and predestination and perhaps give an unbalanced

48:28

Message not only from their pulpit, but the way that disciple others. Yeah, I mean you could even have People who are hyper

48:35

Calvinists Involved in the discipling of others and of course hyper

48:41

Calvinism comes in many flavors they May put so much emphasis on the sovereignty of God that man's responsibility

48:51

Goes out the window or they could be of the other flavor that would tell anyone who is not a

48:57

Calvinist that they're lost And I could I could go on and on but I mean don't we have to handle these things in a proper perspective and You know, would you say that election unconditional election is as important as Let's say the the doctrine of What Christ accomplished on Calvary, you know

49:24

Christ bodily resurrection Christ's Perfect obedience to the Father and sinlessness his virgin birth, you know,

49:32

I mean there are elements of The gospel and of Christian teaching that are of different levels of importance when you say yes, but when it comes to you the question specifically was about discipleship and I think if the doctrines of grace are presented accurately it promotes a greater love for God because it exalts his sovereignty his mercy his grace his love and So in the person who has been redeemed

50:05

That fosters the the love back in return, you know when you see just how gracious your salvation is

50:12

So yes, clearly if somebody is misrepresenting the gospel

50:20

Whether you do that from either side. It's going to hinder the discipleship process, but But accurately presented that's the gospel and we should never shy away from in the in the discipleship process of Presenting the gospel in the most biblical fashion that we can because every time we see

50:43

The electing of God it's the electing love of God For God so loved the world

50:49

That he gave his only begotten son Paul says in Ephesians in in in we were predestined in love you know and That's that's the essence of the gospel is the love of God.

51:02

So I think a proper explanation of the doctrines of grace exalts and enhances the discipleship process

51:14

Yes, I have Had conversations both with professing

51:21

Calvinists and those who are not who I think are mistaken when they say that issues like unconditional election and Particular redemption and so on the the the elements of the acronym

51:38

TULIP that those things are For your seasoned disciples that are only really profitable for when you're having in -depth

51:50

Bible studies, but we really shouldn't be Confusing people

51:57

And you know bringing these things up when we evangelize the lost Well, that's the thing that I have to remind them of when they say things like that is

52:06

That Jesus Christ himself Said things that were very

52:14

That were very What's what's the word? I'm looking for offensive. Yeah to the sensibilities of natural man and the doctrines of sovereign grace can be very offensive because people want to be in charge of their own destiny they want to be in charge of of Everything in their lives.

52:34

They don't want to have the idea that there is a sovereign over them that is in control and in fact

52:43

Jesus thinned out the herd did he not when he basically

52:49

Said to the the crowds that no one can come to him unless it has been given

52:56

To him by the father and People left him and never followed him again after he said that he was basically

53:03

Speaking about something that is a key element of what we would call Calvinism or the doctrines of sovereign grace sure exactly,

53:11

I'm opposed to anything that Candy coats or or softens the clear teaching of Scripture that now don't get me wrong

53:22

I'm not saying that we teach it in a harsh manner is a difference between the message and The method in which you you preach everything we do should be done in love with grace and and and mercy but You can't water down the message of the gospel.

53:40

The message of the gospel is apart from Jesus Christ everyone is doomed to hell and it's only through his grace love and mercy that some are saved and They were given by God to the

53:56

Son who accomplished salvation he died for them and we're sealed by the

54:01

Holy Spirit and You can't shy away from that Because then it's a false gospel

54:08

Right. In fact, if anybody wants to read directly the passage that I was speaking about You go to John go to Gospel of John chapter 6 and you could start somewhere in verse 63

54:21

I mean you could read the whole chapter, of course, but 63 through 65 are really the the path the passages that specifically address how

54:34

Jesus Christ offended the crowds many in the crowds by speaking something that is really a unique teaching of reformed faith today most evangelicals do not believe in The way that we view the order of Saludis wouldn't you say that this passage is really addressing the order of Saludis?

54:56

You know the the father has to grant the ability for someone to come to Christ in other words the natural man the natural man cannot conjure up a faith that pleases

55:11

God out of his stony hard cold heart Now Paul says the heart, you know, the heart that's set on the flesh is opposed to God He can't come to God.

55:23

He's not even able to do so Can't please God. Amen. Well, we have to go to our

55:29

Midway station break right now The Midway station break is the longer than normal break because grace life radio in Lake City, Florida requires of us

55:38

This break so that they can air their own public service announcements and commercials to localize iron trip and Zion radio to Lake City, Florida So please be patient with us as we take this longer than normal break and use this time wisely

55:50

Not only to write down questions for Rich Jensen but also to write down the information provided by our advertisers because the more you successfully and the more frequently you you patronize our advertisers the more likely they are going to be continuing as our advertisers and We depend on our advertisers to exist because we could not survive

56:18

Without the money that they provide through their advertising, so please I Ask of you to please write down as much of the information as you can to more successfully patronize our advertisers by the way our email address again if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own is

56:39

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Please give us as always your first name city and state and country a residence if you live outside the

56:49

USA Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away

56:54

God willing We will be right back after these messages from our sponsors Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am

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I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man if I were still trying to please man,

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I would not be a servant of Christ Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church We are a reformed

57:20

Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts We strive to reflect

57:28

Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

57:33

Than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity But since that wasn't the

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Apostles priority it must not be ours either We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and To be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth

57:53

And love if you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area Please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

58:00

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750 That's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our

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that's Providence Baptist Church ma .org or even on sermon audio .com Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio

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Assistant professor of systematic theology at IRB s theological seminary in Mansfield, Texas I Accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in The churches of our

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.nyc Have a great day. Welcome back This is Chris Arnzen and today if you just tuned us in our guests today for the full two hours with about an hour to go or a little less than an hour to go is

01:08:54

Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York We are discussing what does discipleship look like and what does it mean to abide in Christ?

01:09:05

primarily drawing wisdom from John chapter 14 through 17 and Before we return to Pastor Rich Jensen in our discussion we just have a few announcements regarding upcoming events that we want you to attend and the first of which is coming up right around the corner on Saturday the 30th of March and that is a debate that our mutual friend

01:09:33

Pastor Bruce Bennett is having at the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York With a

01:09:39

Roman Catholic apologist named Matthew Luke Broderick on the subject purgatory.

01:09:45

Is it biblical? That's Saturday March 30th at 6 30 p .m. At the

01:09:50

Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York And if you want more details, you can go to WOT church .com

01:09:58

WOT which stands for Word of Truth Church dot -com or you could call them at 631 -806 -0614 631 -806 -0614 and then coming up in May We have on Thursday the 23rd of May Will be the

01:10:20

Spring Pastors Luncheon Orchestrated by yours truly in IronTroop and Zion Radio.

01:10:25

This is going to be held at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall and Our guest speaker once again is the extraordinary.

01:10:34

Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary He is the professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary And he's going to be speaking to the men at my luncheon on the theme how the

01:10:47

Dead Sea Scrolls vindicate the reliability of the New Testament and the Holy Scriptures If you would like to join me at this lunch and it's absolutely free of charge you just have to be a man in ministry leadership whether you are an elder or a deacon or a

01:11:06

Pastor which I believe is an elder or a leader in a parachurch organization

01:11:13

We are not inviting the ladies the wives of pastors to attend nor are we inviting

01:11:20

Female clergy, this is exclusively a men's leadership Luncheon and it's absolutely free of charge and the majority of the top

01:11:31

Christian publishers in the United States and the United Kingdom are Donating as they always do a hundred copies of each book.

01:11:40

I select for the men in attendance so each man in other words is going to be leaving there with a heavy sack of free books between 15 and 30 books and I am just so delighted that the

01:11:52

Lord has enabled me to maintain these luncheons years after my precious wife

01:11:58

Julie went home to be with the Lord this was her brainchild in the early 1990s and and God willing we will continue this tradition for years to come as long as he enables us to So if you want to attend the iron trip and Zion radio spring pastors luncheon in Carlisle, Pennsylvania Email me at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

01:12:18

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and say I want to attend the iron trip and Zion pastors luncheon Or something like that then coming up after that another event

01:12:27

I will be attending God willing is the banner of truth East Coast ministers conference That's May 28th through the 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania specifically at the

01:12:37

Elizabethtown College the theme is I believe in the Holy Spirit and The guests include

01:12:42

Jeff Kingswood Terry Johnson David Vaughn, who's a reformed Baptist missionary in France Stephen J Nichols who is the president of Reformation Bible College in Sanford, Florida The college founded by RC Sproul and Ligonier ministries

01:12:56

Michael Morales and Chad Vegas That's May 20th through the 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania For details go to banner of truth org

01:13:07

Banner of truth org and scroll down to East Coast ministers conference There are other conferences in other parts of the

01:13:13

United States and in the United Kingdom So if you live closer to those events and prefer Attending those events just click on the information for for those events

01:13:22

But I hope to see many of my listeners in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania May 28th through the 30th at the

01:13:28

East Coast ministers conference of the banner of truth That's banner of truth org banner of truth org and click on events last but not least

01:13:35

We have The foundation's conference in New York City. I will be attending that as well

01:13:41

God willing December 19th and 20th in the heart of Manhattan and I am so looking forward to this as I always am

01:13:50

They have a powerful lineup of preachers there at the foundation's conference, which is a conference of sermon audio comm

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He's a young pastor, but he is incredible I tell you you've got to go here Armin Tomasian whenever you hear about him speaking in an area that you could travel to we

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01:16:24

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01:16:29

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I believe. It's chrisarnson at gmail .com Also use that email address to send in a question to Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church of Long Island, New York On the theme of discipleship or abiding in Christ That email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:17:16

Chris Arnson at gmail .com We have a

01:17:24

Listener pastor rich Who says if we are not supposed to even eat?

01:17:30

With a professing brother or sister who is living a life in rebellion against God How are we supposed to lead that individual back to Christ?

01:17:41

Well again what the scripture is talking about there is is having Christian fellowship which you can

01:17:49

Which you're obligated to withhold But you are definitely to treat them as a non -believer

01:17:55

And so how would you treat a non -believer and that is to give them the gospel you can be

01:18:01

Cordial to them. You don't have to you know, you don't have to smack them every time you see them Even though you may want to can you can you smack them once in a while?

01:18:16

No, but again Remember the idea is to reach one of the the goals of Discipline is to restore the individual so certainly have to have contact and that's not what

01:18:28

Paul means when he says not even to sit Well eat with one. He's talking about Christian fellowship. That's withheld the idea is that all of the the means of grace are held and You're actually turning the person over to Satan for the purpose of restoration and so clearly you want to give the gospel and I make a practice that people who have

01:18:54

Either been disciplined from this church or have walked away in rebellion who were not members

01:19:00

Whenever I see them, I greet them greet them warmly tell them that I miss them but then I always have what when are you going to repent and I think we're obligated to do that We cannot just treat them.

01:19:14

Oh, well, you know, they're gone, but I can still treat them as I would any other brother You can't do that Again, the whole purpose though is to restore the person right and our anonymous listener is obviously talking about 1st

01:19:28

Corinthians chapter 5 verse 11 and I'll read that right now Let's see here 1st

01:19:36

Corinthians 5 verse 11 I just had it in front of me and it disappeared while I'm looking for that up Well, I'm looking at that up again our email address

01:19:45

If you'd like to join us on the air the question of your own is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

01:19:52

Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, okay

01:20:04

The text reads but now I'm writing you to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy an idolater or slanderer a drunkard or a swindler not even

01:20:21

Do not even eat with such people Now There's also a caveat there that he's not talking about people in the world because we are to eat with those kinds of people even

01:20:31

What Jesus Christ did when they are not professing to be Christians and we are to evangelize them not by imitating them or tolerating

01:20:41

Unnecessarily tolerating sin in our midst obviously you have to tolerate to some degree but there is a difference between Eating with Benny Hinn or someone like that In public where we are being viewed as an ally of him rather than someone who is

01:21:00

You know just a lost person who makes no profession of Christianity at all. Yeah, you're absolutely right and Remember You have to always look at things in the context and in the in the entirety of Scripture never just isolate one particular verse if you go through and you do a study on on Discipline and how the the

01:21:24

Christian is supposed to act The idea is is always

01:21:30

Primarily to restore the the fallen brother or to identify him as not a brother

01:21:36

I mean, that's the purpose of it of excommunication if it's a true believer The excommunication act should drive that person back into repentance if it's if they're not

01:21:46

You know, then you're actually showing them to they're behaving like non -believers. You treat them like a non -believer but down in verse 13 of that same portion in 1st

01:21:58

Corinthians 5 It says remove the wicked man from among yourselves, and that's the whole idea

01:22:05

There's usually three Three aspects to discipline what what you know why you discipline somebody one is

01:22:12

We've been mentioning right along and that is to restore the person Secondly, all right is to maintain purity in the body and that's what

01:22:20

Paul's talking about here remove the wicked man from your midst because you don't want him to infect other people and that's why you wouldn't want to sit down in a public place and and Act as though the person is the brother in Christ All right, and then the third one is to actually as a deterrent

01:22:38

When other people see what happens to somebody who is who is going astray that should be, you know warning to move

01:22:46

Well, you know, I don't want to go. I don't want that, you know, so you have that threefold aspect to to church discipline, but yeah

01:22:56

But that doesn't mean you stop giving them the gospel as long as they're willing to listen How about?

01:23:04

Somebody is a professing Christian They are Involved in sexual immorality or one of the other things is interesting.

01:23:13

How often Do churches overlook somebody because of their greed, you know, that's one of the things that yeah that is listed there

01:23:21

I'm sure there are many many many many churches Especially if the person happens to be wealthy, they don't want to rattle that person's cage because they give very generously

01:23:30

In the coffers of the church. So but just keep that in mind folks. How serious the

01:23:36

Lord takes the sin of greed But is it wrong? For an elder or a deacon or just an ordinary member of the church to say to this person still involved in unrepentant sin

01:23:49

Would you come over for my house? Come over to my house let my wife cook a meal for you and I want to really talk to you about how serious these issues are with you and I really need to Unburden myself to share with you the danger that you're in You know can can somebody do that because it doesn't it says don't share a meal now

01:24:07

Is this really more toward public appearance or can someone do that in the privacy of their own home?

01:24:14

etc well again what we're concerned with and I think what what

01:24:20

Paul is concerned with here is is not only the Actuality of what's taking place, but the appearance, you know, and what does it look like and you don't want to give

01:24:30

The appearance of an impropriety as well and that's something that you have to consider So, I mean

01:24:37

I would say I I do believe the language is a little bit hyperbolic

01:24:44

But on the other hand you do have to concern yourself with if somebody sees him coming in and you sit down and appear

01:24:52

That it's just normal Christian fellowship. How are you going to explain that? You know, so somebody might be thinking Oh, well, it's okay for him.

01:24:58

It's okay for me So you have to be you have to be careful of of what the appearance looks like to other people

01:25:04

Yes, as long as your neighbors see the person leaving your house with a black eye, I guess it's okay And by the way folks

01:25:12

Just thought I'd throw this out here. My guest today was actually involved in my church discipline when

01:25:19

I unfortunately and tragically returned to the sin of drunkenness a number of years ago and Was instrumental in having me restored to not only membership in good standing with my former church, but also to the body of Christ at large and To have a restored relationship with Christ first and foremost and I thank you for that pastor

01:25:42

Jensen I don't know how many times anyone has ever thanked you for church discipline, but at least let me be one of them Well, praise

01:25:50

God Amen Well, we are going now to our final break of the show

01:25:55

It's gonna be a lot shorter than the last one and if you have any questions that you'd like to ask of pastor

01:26:02

Jensen do so now or forever hold your peace because We are rapidly running out of time.

01:26:07

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01:26:24

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01:26:30

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01:27:58

Gary Kimbrell pastor Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi God tells us in James 1 27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit the fatherless and widows and their affliction and the providence

01:28:08

Of God three years ago. I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka Zambia in a township called

01:28:13

Cabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding

01:28:19

What was I to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children said heavily upon me as I was praying concerning this need it came to me

01:28:27

I trust from the Lord to tell the orphans plight to a broader audience the entire need for their clothing food

01:28:32

Education and some medical services is $73 per month per child If just 50 of us would give $35 a month

01:28:39

We could meet the need Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there So if you give a dollar a dollar will get to the orphans and the seasons of hope and giving will you consider giving hope?

01:28:49

To 24 orphans, please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

01:28:54

Reed Road Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or donate through our website

01:29:00

BBC Laurel calm again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

01:29:05

Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 3 9 4 4 3 or BBC laurel .com

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01:39:51

We are now in the final 20 minutes of our interview with pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church of Quorum, Long Island, New York We are talking about discipleship and abiding in Christ and Our email address is

01:40:04

Chris Arns and at gmail .com Chris Arns and at gmail .com please

01:40:10

Give us your first name at least Your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:40:16

USA Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter in fact, we do have another anonymous listener pastor

01:40:23

Jensen and he says I Think that I have witnessed far too often churches that raise people up to be elders just because they are successful Businessmen and not necessarily because of any biblical wisdom or knowledge on their part at all.

01:40:40

Do you think that this practice is? Far too often the case and what are your comments regarding?

01:40:49

electing people to such important positions and offices in the church just because they happen to be

01:40:55

Successful businessmen and well -off Well, I don't think

01:41:00

I'm competent to answer the question of how widespread it is I mean there would have to be some sort of survey and knowing what's going on in the individual churches

01:41:07

But to the question if that is in fact being done Yeah, it is it is wrong and it's harmful because the

01:41:16

Bible is very very specific about what the qualifications for an elder and for a deacon and Obviously, there's certain things that that must take place most of the qualities most of the the standards for calling an elder are

01:41:35

As going as far as character is concerned and then of course for the eldership

01:41:40

He also has to be able to teach he has to be able to which means there has to be a certain competency level of Theology, I don't see how you can have an elder who is not knowledgeable In the theology specifically of his church

01:41:55

So those those are the qualities that are given, you know And we see that twice in Scripture very specifically what the qualities of an elder are and if If he's a good businessman

01:42:07

That certainly would go to his managing and in overseeing capabilities But that can't be the sole criteria

01:42:15

All right, the other criteria of his character how he's viewed in the community

01:42:21

You know, does he manage his own household? Well You know and you know those type of things though.

01:42:29

That's the main characteristics Right, you could have a person On the other hand who is a very wealthy and successful businessman who is guilty of the very sin that Paul warned about the sin of greed

01:42:45

And you know the one of the sins that would prohibit a Christian From eating in public with that person

01:42:53

You know, so we have to be we have to take all these things into consideration, you know, there are wealthy Successful businessmen that treat their employees horribly

01:43:04

You know that there is no compassion for them at times. I've heard horror stories about Christians Who have owned businesses?

01:43:13

who you know have treated their employees like dirt who have Fired them for very trivial reasons who?

01:43:22

Don't give them proper Time off when a loved one has died all these kinds of things

01:43:28

And so we have to be careful about looking at such a person just just because they're successful and have management skills

01:43:36

That doesn't mean that they are Good at shepherding. No and and again if you look at all the qualifications for an elder

01:43:45

He has to be a well -rounded individual just because somebody is extremely knowledgeable in the scriptures

01:43:52

All right, maybe they might have you know Theology down to a T That doesn't necessarily qualify them either if they're of not of the right moral character, you know

01:44:03

So there's there's reasons why all of those characteristics are in there and it has to be that well -rounded person

01:44:12

Who is who is should be an overseer of the church? Because again, he's not only going to be teaching and preaching and and managing the church

01:44:22

But he's going to be served as an example as well. People should be able to look up to him and say, you know, yes

01:44:28

That's the type of person that I would like to be Just like Paul said be imitators of me as I am of Christ that should kind of be the goal of every elder

01:44:37

You are going to look at me Not that I'm perfect, but as I strive to follow Christ, you know following those footsteps my striving

01:44:49

BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Writes in and says forgive me

01:44:55

I have joined you late may have missed this But could you please define what you are speaking about?

01:45:03

abiding in Christ Okay, yeah abiding in Christ Is it comes from the the analogy of the ranch and the vine, you know?

01:45:15

and of course we as as Gentiles are grafted into the vine and and the idea of abiding

01:45:23

Has this idea of permanence? Of residing in Christ. It's not a momentary or a temporary

01:45:31

Decision that yes, I'm going to follow Christ But you know, I'm going to do it in my own time or my own way or I'll do it

01:45:37

You know from four to six every Thursday, you know abiding in Christ means you have made a commitment to Christ You're going to follow him and as Christ said himself said you'd be prepared to count the cost

01:45:50

Because it will cost you in this whole whole section that we're looking at here That's the last discourse of Jesus where he talks very specifically about abiding

01:46:01

And it's interesting too. You know this word abide It's a favorite word by the

01:46:06

Apostle John. Not only does he quote Jesus? I think it ten times just in this one chapter

01:46:12

But then he uses it about 15 times in his epistles So it's it's very specific to John, you know in emphasizing this idea of we are in Christ It's that unique relationship.

01:46:25

We have when Christ regenerates our heart and we become one with him And so it takes up that permanent idea of I am residing in Christ and that's essential for the

01:46:39

Sanctification process to take place other than that if if you're not Abiding in Christ that that's not your your the relationship that you have with him

01:46:50

Sanctification is not going to come Thank -you, BB. We have somebody from my old stomping grounds.

01:46:58

In fact somebody with my name and my own stopping We have Christopher and Amityville, Long Island, New York Where I lived most of my life

01:47:06

Christopher says do you think that churches? all too often Automatically will go to an outsider to candidate for their

01:47:16

Pastoral positions they will seek out graduates of seminaries Who don't even know who they are and they have never even darkened the door of the congregation they're looking at those people rather than raising up leaders from within and perhaps even

01:47:31

Spending the money that it would require to educate people in their own churches to become the leaders that they need

01:47:40

You have touched on something that is near and dear to my heart Wow I Came into the ministry by the mentoring ship mentoring ship process my old pastor firmly believed in mentoring and as you had mentioned

01:47:56

I had a Career I was in law enforcement. I was there. I was a homicide sergeant and Well, I was saved just before I went into the homicide squad and I started attending a church and the pastor there was a

01:48:13

Great man who got his name was pastor Fritches and Ken Fritcheson was not reformed but but it was a great man of God and he started a mentoring group and There was a number of us

01:48:25

That he mentored and I did take seminary classes and whatnot But basically the bulk of my education came through the mentoring process, you know with him.

01:48:36

I Was ordained and I came into the ministry after I had retired from the police department I See the same thing that is because that's where I came in.

01:48:46

I see the benefit of that. I Have formed a mentoring group in my own congregation here and it's anywhere you know, it's about 12 men that we meet on a monthly basis and we work our way through theology practical homiletics hermeneutics all of these various disciplines and Two of the two of the men who are in that are now taking seminary classes as well

01:49:12

And our goal is to raise people up one for church leadership Not that everybody is seeking that some of the men just want a deeper understanding of the scriptures but in fact all of the deacons and my co -elder are all part of this mentoring group and That is the goal is to raise somebody when

01:49:34

I Can no longer Perform my functions. I mean, I'm no spring chicken anymore.

01:49:40

I'm 73 years old and When I can no longer perform the function It is my desire that somebody from within this group or even somebody who would join at some other time

01:49:51

Would would step in somebody who already is known in the congregation. He's a known entity

01:49:58

Somebody who the people will have already set their affection upon and he loves the church And I think it just makes for a much better transition

01:50:06

And of course, it doesn't mean you rule out the other No, because you know, you might not have anybody qualified in your church to be become a pastor

01:50:14

Yes, but but that's and that's one of the goals of having a group such as this is

01:50:21

Mentoring men so that you do have that. I Every time I've been in a number of churches where we've called pastors from the outside.

01:50:29

That's the normal way people do it there's always that period of Adjustment and I've actually

01:50:36

I can remember one case in particular that after the man came he was not really the man that people thought he was and We wound up with some some issues some problems within the church because of that very very thing

01:50:49

If you're calling somebody from within the congregation The known entity people know him.

01:50:56

There's no hiding. There's no, you know, you can't you can't falsify your resume So to speak, you know, and I just think it's a much better way

01:51:04

Yes, of course there are times if you there is nobody else nobody's capable of doing it Then you're gonna have to seek from outside And by the way, this may be self -serving but it's also serving one of my sponsors

01:51:16

Anyway, I understand that hope reform Baptist Church Thinks very highly of one of my sponsors

01:51:22

IRB s theological seminary. That's very true We're I we're avid supporters of that seminary

01:51:29

We've had dr. Anaheim speak at our church a number of times. In fact, he was our speaker at our 20th anniversary dinner so yes, we're very very much in in tune with that and and as well as You know, the mentoring process is meant to come along side, you know seminary education

01:51:52

I think if it's possible for an elder to have a seminary education, of course, that's the best possible thing

01:51:58

But he needs to be mentored alongside the seminary process Amen we have another anonymous listener who says do you think it is appropriate for a woman to go to Bible College or to seminary to be taught

01:52:15

Homiletics hermeneutics and other areas of theology not because they esteem to be a leader in the church over men

01:52:22

But just because they want to be more well -rounded Sisters in Christ and more educated and faithful to what the

01:52:30

Bible teaches I'm not opposed to anybody seeking to to gain more knowledge and especially more biblical knowledge

01:52:38

And if that is truly the goal then I would have no problem with it, but I obviously being a

01:52:44

Reformed Baptist I do have a problem with some with a woman who would be seeking an eldership position or position of authority within the church

01:52:53

Right. Yeah, one of those things listed is homiletics is since that is exclusively

01:53:00

About the art or science of preaching the actual physical aspect of preaching

01:53:07

Should a woman be in a class like that? I Would find it

01:53:14

I would have to ask for why do you want to take a class like that? Right because that I think that might be like some some motivation, you know

01:53:22

I mean, I don't have a problem with a woman learning how to speak more effectively, especially if she's going to be

01:53:28

You know teaching a Bible study of women or something like that I have no problem with the woman learning how to do that more effectively, but to take a full -blown homiletics course

01:53:38

I don't know if that would be necessary What about a woman who is a professor

01:53:45

I know of conservative Reformed seminaries that sometimes have A female on the faculty who may be like an expert on the original languages of the

01:53:55

Bible And so on would that be inappropriate? No, I don't think so it's it's a different setting it's not

01:54:04

Specifically within the church, you know, it's I think the the admonition is

01:54:10

You know somebody who's in an authority position in the church and that's the way I would hold it

01:54:16

Right and an area involving language is different than somebody teaching you how to exegete the scriptures exactly

01:54:25

Well, I'm gonna give you now if you would three or four minutes of uninterrupted time just to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners in regard to discipleship and abiding in Christ Well, I would simply say this

01:54:40

I would encourage firstly I would encourage everybody to read that last discourse of Jesus which begins at the end of chapter 13 of the

01:54:48

Gospel of John and concludes with the his high priestly prayer in John 17 and The reason

01:54:54

I would encourage you to do that is this is Jesus's instructions specifically for his disciples the eleven faithful after Judas has left and Encouraging them to continue the work of the ministry after he's gone

01:55:12

He gives them the promise of the Holy Spirit to tell them that they will have the power to accomplish everything that he has commissioned them to do so the the application to us is virtually one -to -one even though some certain other things were promises made directly to them for that for their ministry in that first century

01:55:34

The vast majority of it just applies right over to us and that's something that we need to You know constantly remember

01:55:44

Jesus has commissioned his church to make disciples of all the nations It did that is

01:55:50

I know it's the greatest commission has ever been given to any group of people in the history of the world

01:55:56

But he's also given us everything That is necessary to accomplish that he's given us the complete canon of Scripture Which is sufficient and efficient for all of life and godliness

01:56:08

He's given us the Holy Spirit who indwells us to him to give us both the desire and the ability to understand the scriptures and also to accomplish the task which he set before us and To do so we need to have understand that first and foremost the will of God for every single believer is our own sanctification first Thessalonians 4 3, but this is the will of God for you your sanctification and It's that's the relationship that we have in abiding in Christ never forget

01:56:40

We are the we are the branches. He is the vine We've been engrafted in and what is the function of the vine to produce fruit?

01:56:49

Interestingly enough grape branches have no other function other than to produce fruit The wood is useless to anything else doesn't even make good firewood.

01:56:57

It burns too quickly So the sole purpose is to produce fruit and that's what we have to look at and I think that's the encouragement

01:57:05

I think it's it's missing in in a wide spectrum of the church today What we need is not just new converts.

01:57:14

We need disciples who are going to be discipled and mentored Into the kingdom of God to increase their sanctification and to bear much fruit and that's how we'll see the

01:57:24

Great Commission accomplished Amen, and I want to make sure that our listeners have all of the

01:57:31

Information they need for Hope for Forum Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island First of all, the website is hope reformed li .net

01:57:39

hope reformed li .net You could also call them at six three one six nine six fifty seven eleven six three one six nine six five seven one one and And Keep in mind that they are having as I mentioned earlier not only a worship service, of course this

01:57:56

Sunday But they are having a dedication service or their new building in Coram, Long Island, New York at 3 p .m

01:58:02

this Sunday and That would be Sunday the 23rd of March which happened for it

01:58:14

No, oh, I'm sorry, yes Yeah, it is 24th, sorry about that this

01:58:19

Sunday the 24th of March And I intend to be there. I would love to meet any of my listeners who show up there as well and Also put it down on your calendar folks

01:58:32

The Sunday after I have my pastor's luncheon in Carlisle, Pennsylvania that would be the 27th of May We are going to have dr.

01:58:45

Tony Costa Speaking. I'm sorry. It's the 26th of May Sunday the 26th of May Dr.

01:58:52

Tony Costa will be preaching God willing in the morning service of hope reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island Dr.

01:58:58

Tony Costa who is professor of apologetics in Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary and I intend to be there as well

01:59:05

He will be preaching on Long Island for the entirety of his stay in America After my pastor's luncheon

01:59:14

So I hope that as many of you as possible can join me there at hope reform Baptist Church of Long Island And I'll be giving you more details when we start fight fine -tuning what he is speaking on etc but I hope you all have a very wonderful weekend a safe and Refreshing and relaxing weekend and especially a

01:59:34

God honoring weekend and Lord's Day I look forward to hearing from you with your questions for our guests next week