Matt Slick Live: November 25, 2024

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network.

It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at karm .org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers.

Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Opening Remarks and Show Updates

Hey everybody, welcome to the show. I hope you're having a good day. I hope you had a good weekend. And let's see, today's date, oh yeah, today is November 25th, 2024. For the podcasters, my wife is home.

She was in the hospital for a little bit for those who, you know, would ask. And we found out what the problem is and we're looking to a doctor or something researching it to get it fixed.

It has to do with a valve and something like that.

It's not that serious. It's one of those, it's serious but not serious at the same time, you know, one of those. So there you go and I hope you had a good weekend. Yeah, boy, there's so much to do, so much to do.

We're working on the website. We are trying to make it more better, trying to get it to be more better and even more better-er. We are revamping it, what we're doing is overhauling it but you can't tell.

It's the stuff behind the scenes on every single article. We're modifying a few things here and there and checking for SEO stuff, links and backlinks.

And all kinds of stuff.

That's what we're doing and it's taken a while, it's taken time and things are improving. So there you go, may the Lord bless you. And in the show today, I hope you learn. We pray basically every time we have the show, we pray.

We pray that the Lord will be glorified and that we have wisdom to know how to answer and that people would be willing to hear the truth and that God would speak, not just me, but whatever truth comes from God, that they would be willing to hear that and that's what we hope for, that's what we look for and we pray for God's glory.

And if you wanna call me, the number is 877 -207 -2276. You can also email me, that's easy to do. You just send an email to info at karm .org, info at karm .org and put in the subject line, radio comment, radio question and we get to it.

That's generally how it works. Let's get to Arius from Salt Lake City. Arius, welcome, you're on the air.

Hi Matt, how you doing?

Oh, I'm hanging in there, man, hanging in there. What do you got, buddy?

Hey, good to hear, so I just had a question regarding Hebrews, chapter 13, verse 17. I was listening to your show last week and I heard you tell a lady that you didn't believe church membership was biblical and I was just wondering about that particular verse because to me, it seems to imply some kind of formal commitment to a church.

There you go, I agree with that. When I say church membership, the document you sign on the line, you go through a class, now you, so to speak, belong to that church and are to be automatically now officially subject to that church and they have the ability to call you, ask questions, to follow up on you and things like that.

I don't see that as a biblical mandate. But when it says, you know, obey your leaders and submit to them, they keep watch over your souls, those will give account. Well, that's fine and it has to do with, you know, just so, I'll just leave it there, obey your leaders and submit to them.

When I go to a church, like the church I'm going to now, it's a good reformed church, good worship, good people. I wanna preach there sometime, I'd love to be able to preach there, but you know, it's probably never gonna happen and that's okay, I love to preach and teach.

And if they were to say, the only way we could let you preach is if you become a church member, I'd say, okay, I'm not ever gonna preach here then. You know, because they have these people, or these churches, have rules and requirements and I don't know what it is about me, but I just don't wanna be under that.

I just feel like they're gonna cross examine me.

All the time.

And you know, like my wife's health, you know, I don't wanna go to church every Sunday if I have to be home with her, I don't want anybody to call me up and tell me,.

What are you doing?

You know, I just don't need that.

That's all, that's just me.

But some people love that, they like it, that's okay.

So it's up to them.

Well, thank you, yeah. I enjoy your show, I've been a Christian for five years and have been listening to you for five years off and on, I appreciate what you do.

Well, good.

But just know, so you know, I'm not saying it's unbiblical to have a church membership. I'm just saying it's not explicitly stated in the scripture and there are churches that can require that and that's their business, they wanna do that, that's what it is.

And I don't have a problem with it, it's just not my thing, that's all, that's what I'm saying.

Okay?

Well, thank you.

All right, well, you're welcome, well, God bless.

Yeah, God bless, happy Thanksgiving.

Oh, you too, man, thanks a lot, appreciate it. All right, now that was Arius from Salt Lake City.

And what we'll be doing, that's right,.

I'm gonna ask the producer because Thursday is Thanksgiving, are we gonna have Thursday, Friday off?

I didn't even think about that.

We usually do something like that, we have Thursday and Friday off, that way they can just go home and relax with their families instead of having to put up with a guy named Slick on the radio, you know, fix that all up.

Who We Pray To and the Trinity

Let's get to Greg from Florida. Hey, Greg, welcome, you're on the air.

Hi, good evening.

Good evening.

Hey, first of all, I just wanna say I appreciate your ministry that you do for us and help us understand these things. Have a quick question for you is something I've been kind of stumbling around is, the question is, who do we pray to, okay?

And the basis of the study is that in the Old Testament, people prayed to God. Then in the New Testament, Jesus prayed to God, his father, in Matthew 6, when he taught the model prayer, it's our father who art in heaven.

And then after his resurrection, he appeared to the disciples and he said that, in Matthew 28, that all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. So, I guess understanding the trinity of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, who should we direct our prayers to and does it really matter?

Yes, it does, no, it doesn't. It's just depending on how we wanna look at it, okay? So let's step back. And I'm gonna lay a doctrine down regarding the trinity. And then we'll come back to it in a little bit.

So, the trinity is one God in three distinct, simultaneous, co-eternal persons. They are one being, so God is one being. And how he reveals himself to us is with Father, Son, Holy Spirit. They each have the same nature, they each have the same attributes.

So they're identical, but people say, well, if they have the same nature and same attributes, then they're indistinguishable, then you don't have three persons, you only have one. But the revelation is this, that God reveals himself to us and shows us a relationship inside of himself, of the persons as they relate to each other and relate to us.

Now, there's a doctrine called inseparable operations. And it's where Jesus, who is, you know, he's God in flesh, has two natures, God and man. So the divine nature is still and always will be part of the trinity.

Since the trinity is one being, but we have this weird kind of a situation where Jesus is made under the law of Galatians 4, for a little while, the Lord and the angels, Hebrews 2 .9, and the Carmen Christian, Philippians 2 .5 -8, he emptied himself.

So he does say in John 5 .19, John 5 .30, he says he can do whatever he sees the Father do, nothing of his own initiative. So this is the revelation that he's giving to, God's giving to us, that Jesus and the other members, they have this interaction of what one does, the other does, kind of a thing.

So this is, so when you're addressing God, you're addressing the one being who's God. But you can pray to the Father, as Jesus said. Now, this is because of the distinction between the persons that's revealed in the inter-Trinitarian communion, and that's found in Philippians, excuse me, Ephesians 1 .4 and 5 and other places.

But also, in the distinction between the way they relate to creation. So the Father sent the Son, the Son is the one who is sent by the Father, and the Father and Son send the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts us, they all indwell us.

Okay, having said a lot of stuff, who do we pray to? Pray to God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Pray to the Father, as Jesus says. Pray to Jesus, because he says, ask me anything in my name and I will do it.

You can pray to the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit we're committed to have fellowship with, and that's 2 Corinthians 13 .14. So you can't have fellowship with someone you're not talking to. So this involves a necessity of prayer.

Now, why would we pray to individuals in that sense of persons? We would pray to the Father in the sense of glory of God and election and salvation, predestination. We'd pray to the Son, who has all authority, as you said, in heaven and earth, Matthew 28 .18, and he can forgive sins, Luke 5 .27 .48, he can do that.

The Holy Spirit convicts of sin. We might ask the Holy Spirit to convict us, ourselves of sin, as well as others of sin. And we would ask Jesus, who reveals the Father. We ask him in Matthew 11 .27, we could ask him to reveal the Father to people.

So you see, there's certain aspects, and it was called the economic trinity, and how the different members relate to each other and do different functions. So then if we want, we could just say, we could address the function to each one we're revealed about, that's revealed himself to us, or we could just say, God, could you please, and then you say yourself.

So you see why it's yes and no, it's one and all,.

And this depends, okay?

Right, so if you're studying, if you're in a situation, and you pray to the Holy Spirit to give me wisdom and guidance, that's part of the Holy Spirit's role, correct?

Yeah, exactly.

Right, you know, I mean, normally, when I pray, I start with Father God. And then, okay, and then may go to a different, you know, address, I guess, as I'm praying about different things, and that's totally fine, because it all goes the same.

I mean, the Holy Spirit interpret our growing up, and those things, so there's not a wrong one to pray to them.

Right, correct.

Is that correct?

Okay. That's correct. Yeah, and.

Perfect, that's great.

Now, we don't wanna make the mistake of thinking there's, look, functionally three gods. We don't wanna do that. We don't wanna give them a tritheism or a triad, but we have to understand that the being of God is a simple being, divine simplicity.

He's one thing. The one thing is triune in nature. We perceive that triune being as he relates to us, and we see the differences of relationship, and that's how we observe their distinction.

So.

Right.

When I pray, I pray to Jesus all the time, and the reason I do is because false religions don't pray directly to Jesus.

They just don't.

The Bible, they do, actually, the verses. Yeah, so I pray to Jesus, because I wanna witness to people, even while I'm in fellowship with the Lord Jesus, and we're commanded to have fellowship with Christ.

First Corinthians 1 .9, and you can't have fellowship with somebody you don't talk to, and that's prayer.

Right. I heard you a few months ago, you were explaining Trinity. People talked about, you know, I've heard the egg and the yolk and the shell, but you explained that in a much better way. I think it was with, was it with water or?

Time.

Time, that's right, that was time.

Yeah.

Past, present, and future are all the one thing called time, yet they are distinct in their relationship to each other. One is after, one is before, and one is present. And it's just an analogy, but we can understand the singularity of time, but we also understand the aspects as they relate to each other simultaneously.

So time is one thing and three things at the same time.

Okay?

Okay, perfect.

Thanks, Matt, have a great evening.

God bless. You too, man.

Thank you, bye-bye.

All right.

Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. We have Glenn from Richmond, and why did God hate Esau? That's a good question. We'll be right back after these messages.

We'll try and tackle it.

It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

God's Sovereign Choice in Jacob and Esau

All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, as always, that's a number, is 877 -207 -2276. You can also email me info at carm .org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, and put the subject line, radio comment, radio question, and we have three open lines.

So if you want to give me a call, now's the time. All right, let's get to Glenn from Richmond. Glenn, welcome, you're on the air.

Yes.

Hello?

Yes.

Yep, that's what he got, buddy.

What's up?

I wanted to know why the scripture says that God loved Jacob, but Esau he hated.

Well, the Bible tells us why. And if you go to Romans 9, and read the context of verse 11, it'll tell us. It says in verse 10, not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac.

For though the twins were not yet born, this is Jacob and Esau, right? Had not yet born, and had not done anything good or bad. So it wasn't based on what they would do. They hadn't done anything good or bad, or not even born.

So what Paul is talking about, it's not an issue of their works, what they would or would not do, okay? They're not yet born, and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose, according to his choice, would stand.

Not because of works, but because of him who calls. It was said the older will serve the younger. Jacob, I love Esau, I hate him. Now, some people, what they'll do, is they'll say, well, he loved one as a group.

So they each became nations, or groups of people. And so he just loved this one group better than another. That's all it is. So what they do, is they soften this to make it fit their theology and their personal comfort zone.

And they shouldn't do that, because the next verse, well, there's no justice with God, is it? May there never be. Why would you ask that question if it's just a bunch of groups, and you've already softened the interpretation to make it fit your feelings?

So back to the text. So it's for God's purpose, according to his choice. Not because of works. That's why he picked one over the other. So that God's purpose, according to his choice, would stand, not because of works, but because of the one who calls.

That's why he chose one, not the other.

Okay?

Okay, okay. Now, back to what you said, that she had two nations in her womb. Rebecca, right?

Yes.

And it says, one was red and hairy, right?

Yes.

And they didn't describe the other one.

Okay.

So what two nations did she have in her womb?

The nations that came out of each person.

Okay.

The groups of people.

The nations that came out of.

Yeah.

What church do you go to?

The descendants of.

What church do you go to?

I go to First Baptist Centralia.

Okay, yeah, that's okay.

That's okay. Yeah, and I talk to you a lot.

Okay.

This makes my, maybe about, well, I don't say a lot, but this is like my third or fourth time that I've been speaking with you. I've raised questions. You know, I talked to you last week, too, also. I'm getting through, thank God.

And I'm getting understanding from you.

Well.

About what you said. But that was Romans 9, verse 10.

And 11.

And 11 is the specific.

And 11.

Yeah.

Now here's something to think about. And so you don't mind, I'm gonna teach you something. Or try to, okay? A little something. I remember a professor in seminary told me this. And I never forgot it. And he said, when you go to Romans 9, do you get upset?

Now these aren't the exact words he said, but this is what he meant. Do you get upset when you're reading it? You go, wait a minute. That's not fair, that's not right. Doesn't make sense. If you do, and you ask those kinds of questions, then you understand the text.

And if you don't ask those kind of questions, then you don't understand the text. Because Paul himself raises those questions. So you have to read it in such a way that you go, wait a minute, is that right?

And that's what a lot of people do about Romans 9. And then they reject their understanding, which is clear. So starting in verse 9 of Romans 9, for this is the word of promise, at this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.

And not only this, but there was Rebecca also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac. For though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to his choice would stand, not because of works, but because of him who calls.

It was said, the older will serve, the younger just says, Jacob, I love, but Esau, I hate it. If it's talking about individuals who hadn't done anything good or bad, and God's loving one and hating the other, well, why is he upset with them then if they do things wrong?

Because that's what God's choice is. That's the kind of question you'd ask. And then the next sentence is, well, what are we gonna say? There's no injustice with God, is there? That means, oh, I am understanding what Paul's teaching, because I'm raising the same objection.

But let's just say it's, Jacob is one group of people, one of the tribes, and Esau's another group of people. And that in those groups of people, you have free will choices, free will, my sovereignty, my sovereignty, free will, free will, and God just knows what they're gonna do, and he loves one, hates another.

But remember, it says, not because of works, what they would do, okay? So what the people will do is they'll say, they have to soften it. Well, you see, no, no, no, God loves everybody, which isn't true.

He loves everybody, and he wants everybody to be saved. And how do I know? Because I've decided that's what the ultimate is, as far as God's will for people. He wants everyone to be saved, because he says it in 1 Timothy 2, 4, 2 Peter 3, 9.

He wants all to be saved. That's what it means. So this can't mean he loved one and hated another. It has to mean something else. So it has to mean that he saw how bad they would be, and he's frustrated with them, and that's why.

Well then, where's the objection then? Why would you say there's no injustice with God, is there? See, what they're doing is they're recognizing a perceived injustice with God, and then they're changing the text's meaning to make it fit what they want.

They're violating scripture at this point. And then when they go back to these verses, where God wants all to be saved, I say, then why does Jesus speak in parables, in Mark 4, 10 through 12? It's so that people will not be saved.

And he says it, they'll not be forgiven. That's why he says he speaks in parables. And then in 2 Thessalonians 2, 11, I think it is, or 13, God sends a deluding influence on people so they'll believe lies.

Well, wait a minute. If he wants everyone to be saved, then why does he do that also? And this is where you get into theology. Now you have to do some thinking and go to look at the whole of scripture.

Most people I've found don't want to go that far. They simply have a view, and they have decided what the truth is. And then when I say, well, what about this? Matt, you're stupid, you don't understand the truth.

That's what often happens. So if we're to continue, it says, there's no injustice with God, is there, may it never be. For he says to Moses, I'll have compassion on whom I have compassion. I'll have mercy on whom I have mercy.

Okay, mercy and then compassion. Now some people say, well, what that means there is not about salvation. It's just about choosing whom he wants. No problem at that point. So he says, it does not depend upon the man who wills or the man who runs, but upon God who has mercy.

Well, what doesn't? Well, they're gonna say it has just to do with what purposes he's gonna call them to do. Well, that would include salvation, wouldn't it? But nevertheless, the scripture says to Pharaoh, for this very purpose, I raised you up to demonstrate my power in you that my name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth so he has mercy on whom he desires and he hardens whom he desires.

And then you'll say, well, then why does he still find fault? There's another objection. Then the next set of verses are about salvation and God's sovereignty over that. So people don't want the sovereignty of God,.

They want their own.

That's what's going on. Okay, buddy, there's a break, we gotta go.

Yeah. All right?

All right.

You can hold on.

Hold on if you want. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

A Female Pastor and Doubts About 1 Timothy

Okay, everybody, welcome back to the show at the bottom of the hour. And a guy dropped off, which is fine. And now, let's, next longest waiting is Horvosh from Virginia, welcome.

You're on the air.

Hi, Matt, thanks for taking my call. Can you hear me okay?

Yes, I can.

Yes, I can. So what do you got?

Well, I spoke to you a couple times before regarding once was a, this pastor that my sister has, she doesn't have a, the pastor doesn't have a church, she's a female. The pastor is.

Yeah, she's a female.

Yes, yes, yes, yeah, I agree. And so my sister's friends with her, and I was just talking to my sister last night, and she said something, which I guess kind of like set me, like just, I don't know, it really took me aback because I didn't even know what to say.

But she said that apparently we can't trust like the book of Timothy, because Paul, the pastor said something, Pastor Hannah said something about, they're learning that Paul didn't actually write the book of Timothy, it was like someone else, and that's why one of the reasons, is it in Second Timothy or in Timothy where it talks, where Paul talks about like preachers or pastors not being female?

I can't, I don't know off the top of my head, but she was saying how that is not necessarily a book that like should have been included in the Bible because Paul didn't write it. And I just had no, first of all, I'm like, that's not true, but I didn't know how to rebuttal, give a rebuttal.

It's simple. So then the Christian church throughout the 2 ,000 years is wrong? Is that what you said?

Right, right. I mean, I was just like, there's just no way, like you've all these scholars who've like studied this, and now this pastor's saying that they're finding out that Paul didn't write this book, like I don't understand, like why would you just believe this one person?

So here's the thing. The early church recognized this, and this is where we go to the early, earliest accounts, because the people who were close then knew which books were in and which ones were apostolic.

And so the early church fathers, the very early on, they included it. The councils early on included it. So the evidence that they had and the information they had was there. So what's happening now is nothing more than an attack on God's word, because it says here women are to have that place of authority, which I can go to Titus and make the same case.

I can do that in Titus and still demonstrate it in other places too. But all they're doing is now trying to say that, well, it's not really written, it's not really true. So who's the one who doubts God's word?

It's the unbeliever. So she needs to understand that she's coming along and her false pastor, whoever said this, is now going against this because she's a woman pastor. I would be glad to fly out to where she is and have a debate with it on this topic in front of her and her church.

I would happily do that and politely and firmly destroy her position. And I don't even have to use First Timothy. I can do it from other places. And so that would be easy to do. It would be very easy and she'd be left without any answers.

In my opinion, what she's doing is gathering teachers to herself that tickle her ears. Just want that, she wants to be able to have that power and authority. So she now is saying, well, Paul didn't write that.

That's all.

Well, did he write Titus? Yeah, he wrote Titus, didn't he? She had to authenticate that. Well, then check this out in Titus. This is what he says in Titus, one verse five. He says that he left Titus there to appoint elders in every city.

In the Greek, okay, in the Greek, it's a plural masculine form, elders in every city. If any one, and the word one is masculine also, but we approach the husband of one wife. Now, this is aner mias gunaikos.

So this is a husband of one wife. How does a woman do that? An elder, by definition, a pastor's an elder. Let me go to First Timothy five, First Timothy five, 14, oh, it's long. So, and then it goes on the overseer and that's also masculine.

Must be above reproaches too. So how is it that a woman can fit this? I don't even need to go to Timothy.

No, I mean, they, right, but my concern is too is just like refuting what this pastor is saying to my sister and that this pastor's telling her that now they're realizing that Paul didn't write Timothy.

And I'm like, well, I'm a nurse, you know, and I've been walking with the Lord, but I don't have a masculine divinity. So I don't know how to refute that.

Yeah, see, all she's doing is saying this false pastor is now saying this and is tickling her ears too. I would be glad to talk to her on the phone and go through non-Timothy verses to make the same case.

See, now what do we do?

Okay.

How does a woman become an elder when it says the husband of one wife? How does that happen? And then what they'll probably say is, well, it was just written for that time and that place. Oh, so it's not written for us when he says appoint elders this way.

So now you're telling us that when it says they have to be husband and one wife, it means they don't have to be husband and one wife. And this is what happens with false religious systems. They get the text to say the opposite of what it says.

It's one of the basics. So they can just say what it doesn't say, the opposite. When they're done with it.

Is there a place that I could also go to show my, because I feel like if I just say Shireen, that's not true, then she's not going to listen to me. She's like, well, Hannah has a masters in divinity. I'm like, there's a lot of doctors in divinity that don't believe what Hannah does.

I just, I don't understand. I don't. And so I guess if I just go against the pastor, I feel like with anything else, but like, well, no, there, here's the proof that Paul wrote it. Like my sister's not going to believe me.

Here's the thing. The main reason that they're saying this is because of the different style of writing. That's what they're saying.

Okay.

See, it's a different person. All right. Now there's an error, there's an error called the JEDP, the graph Wellhausen theory, the, I don't know the word for it, but it doesn't matter, where it says that the first five books of the Bible were written by four different authors, J, E, P, D, and we'll get into all that stuff.

And the reason they say that is because different styles.

Okay. All right.

So what I did one day, this is true, before church on a Sunday, I had this in my head and I went and I wrote an article explaining what the JEDP is. Okay. And I explained the graph Wellhausen theory and I went through and I wrote it.

Okay.

And I was thinking about it in church,.

Wasn't paying too much attention to the sermon that day.

It was so far in my mind. And so when I got back home, I jumped right in the computer and I wrote the response to it, the reputation of it. And then what I did afterwards, I went, wait a minute. Hey, I'm going to run both of them, both articles.

This was an afterthought. I'm going to run both articles through the grammar analyzer, flash concord, stylistic analysis thing. And they were different. They were different. The amount of passive versus active voice was different.