Interview with the Social Justice Unredacted Whistleblower

So what you're about to watch is the interview that I did with the person who reached out to me about this. About the screenshots that we're gonna share today from this past the mic 101 Facebook group.

And I just wanted to sort of frame this conversation. He struck me as an extremely genuine person someone who Does not necessarily desire the attention. I know a lot a lot of people get criticized because the people so there's a desiring attention.

Well, he doesn't strike me as that kind of guy at all. In fact, I I offered to you know, plug anything that he wanted me to you know as part of this. It's interview and he said now that's not why I'm doing this.

And so, you know, one of the things that I do want to make sure that you guys do Is to pray for this guy because I told him at the after after I shut the camera down I told him that you know, I really respect people that are willing to sort of be.

You know Stand for what is right in this issue. Knowing full well that they are going to bear the brunt of all kinds of accusations. Paul is probably gonna be called racist. He's gonna be called a white supremacist.

He's gonna be called all kinds of awful names. Even though for you know from all from all I can see he's none of these things obviously so and you'll see why in a minute. But he's he's he reached out to me knowing full well Exactly what was headed for him and so I really respect that, you know people people call me that kind of stuff, too.

But it rolls right off my back because it's just so stupid since I'm not white but anyway, just just pray for this guy and I pray that God would use this this. This this ridiculous reveal that we're gonna do tonight just to draw people to repentance to kind of shake them out of their stupor because.

The reality is that there are people that are buying into this because it sounds really good. But here's the fruit of it. We're gonna expose the fruit of it Tonight at 9 o 'clock Eastern Time Live and actually this is a bit of a surprise for some of you.

We're gonna have a distinguished panel Tonight as well. And so I'll tell you who those are people are gonna be tonight. It's not cuz it's not just gonna be yours truly on this live stream will be two other brothers as well.

Evaluating and talking about what in the world is going on in the woke church movement. So I hope you tune in tonight on my youtube channel 9 p .m. Eastern Time. We're gonna be doing social justice unredacted.

Here is the interview. God bless All right, well Paul, thank you so much for joining. Joining me and I appreciate you reaching out to me and all of this stuff. But I guess so to give just to give this video some context, you know I just wanted to ask you just a few questions and we'll be done.

But the first question is who are you?

Paul Grinnell and His Background in the Reform African-American Network

Yeah, why are we talking right now? You said my name is Paul Grinnell. I'm really just like I said a guy. I'm a husband a father. With a job a guy that loves the Lord and a guy that really wants to see this issue solved this issue.

He's talked about and and advanced in some way the conversation advanced.

Yeah, and so, you know you reached out to me, you know a few weeks ago and you told me a little bit about your Story, so I guess probably the best thing for you for us to do right now is if If you could give us a little bit of context into what your experience was with.

With with ran and then it became you know, the witness and you know, we kind of start there.

Yeah, you know, so it started Probably end of 2000 around 2015 I Adopt I've adopted two black children and You know, they're three races. I know I know so I You know when I first got into it You read stuff online and whatnot.

And one of the things everyone gets concerned about is am I gonna be a person who is gonna raise them with their culture? Am I gonna rob them of their culture by raising him? So, you know, I want to. I want them to be the best that they can be and So I Decided if that means I got a you know jump into this culture.

Let's do it. I don't care, you know. Yeah, so got into it. I actually got an article from a pastor friend of mine. That was written by ran and So we I first saw them and and that's how I kind of got into it and Experience was good at first, you know, I learned a lot.

I learned because at first it was very informative for a lot of education as to Kind of some history that I wasn't necessarily Aware of. I mean nobody teaches history well anymore. I have a basic high school history at college, you know, nobody nobody does Honestly, you get to like the Civil War all the time and then history stops.

That's how I nobody goes modern so I I didn't know a lot of these things and certainly I didn't have any classes in church history. You know, I'm not like a formally trained pastor or anything like that.

So I I learned a lot and it was good.

But then things change. Let me just stop you real quick and I appreciate what you're saying and just in case people who are watching don't know. We're talking about the reformed african-american network.

Yeah, and it doesn't really exist anymore. It's now it's now the witness. It's never it but it's always been kind of run by Jamar Tisby and they changed their name for a variety of different reasons. Sure.

Tyler Jamar and Tyler Burns. Tyler Burns, right, right. Yeah, so sorry to interrupt you. Go ahead and continue.

So where changes is honestly work starting in the primaries of 2016. Working up to the presidential election and and at first it was fine, you know is you know. They had some things with Trump that had concerns that they said about Trump and I had concerns with Trump.

I didn't vote for Trump in the primaries. And you know things kept going on and I mean in fact, you know during that summer actually wrote an article for him. Article not necessarily that I support totally now there in in some of the premises I'm still there, but I wrote an article form and.

So I was highly involved. I was highly I was involved with the group. I tried to interact where I can I try to learn. As much as I can. I stayed, you know, I I was wanting to learn. So I stayed a learner in that sense and I listened to all their podcasts went back and then all of a sudden.

You know when it was between Trump and Hillary and I knew I was going to vote for Trump at some point. And it was honestly had to do with two issues. It had to do with the fact that I really felt that.

Well, maybe not all homosexual people the LGTBQ. Kind of that push that they were given. Yeah, that that was really trying to drive the church out. I mean we see it with the Equality Bill now we're seeing it all right about there and I was like, I really wanted to try and stave that off as I could and then the other thing was the abortion.

I knew that we had a chance with two justices. Probably going to be coming up. That we had a chance to at least change the court a little bit. Hopefully for the better and and even though I didn't necessarily trust that Trump would do it.

I knew Hillary wouldn't and so It kind of like what a lot of people said I held my nose and voted for him. And that's that's when my world turned upside down and when it had to do with the past of my group.

The Past the Mic Podcast, Emotional Safety, and Expository Preaching

And so the past the bike is the podcast that they put out in conjunction with ran. That was when past the mic did an episode with Jamar where he basically said he didn't feel safe. What's your being with white people?

He later went on to say it was more of a Emotional safety than a physical safety, but at first that wasn't clarified. And so I Didn't know.

You know, it's interesting what's interesting about that that clarification because I do remember that as well. I mean, that doesn't really make it better. No, no, no.

Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to just kind of be as accurate as I can but yeah. It's like yeah, I don't I don't think you're gonna kill me physically just emotionally you're murdering just gonna destroy my soul.

I guess you know, yeah, in fact, it got to the point that and you know. People gonna say this is tokenism or whatever they want to call it. But I do have a lot of I do have several friends that are black and my best friend of over 20 years is that?

And man, I called both of them. I've called up a guy that I do co-teach Sunday school with he's the leader I coach each under him and then my best friend. I called my best friend. Who's a pastor. I called him up and I was like, I'm sorry.

Did I do something wrong like that? They both looked at me like you are so crazy. Stop it. And so then I was like, you know The thing that I'm not here and I think that I wasn't hearing was like Bible you know conversations like proper Expository preaching the Lord blessed me in the sense that I grew up in a church that actually did do a good job.

Properly, you know having a expository preaching and so when I was like man, I don't hear scripture being Exposited correctly here. Right then a video from Another person we can name names a James White.

He The dividing I so they got on there and I said listen, there's another video from James White he had done an earlier one about a He has a dash cam and he saw American child. Yeah. Okay, so he got a lot of flack for that and I saw that go back and forth.

I was like, well, I don't know they didn't necessarily right but I don't know they necessarily need to post that either. But whatever, you know, yeah, and then the then they said oh, he's got another one.

Don't go on there and argue with him. Don't even watch it. It's not even worth it. And so, you know, you don't tell me what you tell me to do something wrong. Tell me not to do something rather and my spirit is to go do that.

For all of us for all of us internet people out there. That's called the Streisand effect. Barbra Streisand.

So I went and you know, I remember clearly that Pastor he's the pastor. So that dr. White said can we just look at scripture, please? And that was oxygen for my soul. And then all of a sudden I started he exegete I think Galatians and he went through a lot of other things and I was like you know what and I started to become a little bit more disenfranchised because.

The biggest thing if you want to talk to me if you want to really change my soul. For for any type of permanence, you're gonna need to expose the Word of God because that's the only way I'm gonna be convinced and so that's what I saw and.

Then I saw them go to the witness and then it really after the election is when it was almost like they took the gloves. It was like oh, you don't want to listen to us. And all right, we're done being nice now.

We're gonna take the gloves off and it's gonna go from you know. Just suggestions and and gentle pushes to we're gonna beat you down and it went from now. It's like I mean they they were basically almost in the sense of you know.

Hey, you're you're when you're saying if you're voting for somebody who supports abortion, you should have church discipline for them. It was almost if you voted for Trump church discipline should be considered, you know, it was almost that hard.

They may not said those words, but it was almost that hard in the way that they were saying it so. So it went from there to Pass the mic, you know, and and I still wanted to stay in touch with them. And so I didn't necessarily follow them as close and didn't act as much but I'm still like I want to hear both sides I really truly do.

And then they made the past the mic 101 group and that was okay.

De-centering Whiteness and the Past the Mic 101 Facebook Group

So let's talk about this because that's what that's the content of this video is gonna be yes. Screenshots from this past the mic 101 group. So if you can so let me just say this so a lot of podcasts will have you know Facebook groups for their communities so like you fight left feast has it too you have a group.

Yes, where if you like their podcast you can go and just talk about things. Whatever lots of groups do this and lots of groups moderate those. I mean, yes, the reform pub is moderated. You know, I would say a little bit more so than I would like it to be but but that's fine.

That's their prerogative. It's it's totally fine. What's the deal with this past the mic 101 group.

So basically all of a sudden past the mic there was almost like an announcement or something that that it came across my feet. That basically said we've created this new group that we want white people to join all the white people need to join this group.

This this group is basically what they said is it's just gonna train in De-centering whiteness and to train and how to interact in the past the mic group because we've noticed that. Too many people say things that are injuring or injuring Persons of color or Centering their own whiteness.

So it was basically you can go here and learn how to do that. And they actually at one point had said your post won't even be considered if you're not in the past the mic 101 groups. And and learning so then they went there and then at first it was started to be just like, you know Here's so here's some thoughts and then it was here's some assignments and then it was you guys.

And then there was like formal training and and then there was a laughing. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, yeah, and then and then I'm you know, like I think I showed you they had one week and where they said Okay on the past the mic group.

We want all white people to be quiet. So they said that we want silence just learn reflect on de-centering yourself reflect on what's going on reflect on you know, whatever. And I mean and they've had it even in they moderate so heavily that during holidays.

They ask that you not post as much so, you know major holidays like Christmas Easter. So that people can be with their families and they don't want to have to you know, be busy about moderating. So, I mean, that's how heavy it is every comment.

I don't think you can moderate responses to comments, but every original comment has to be moderated. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

So this is a place that that basically you had to go to if you wanted to participate in this community and. It was essentially a training ground. Yes, and you said Maybe people don't understand what you mean by that.

What is the de-centering whiteness?

Did you know what that was when they said that that's what you needed to do? Not at first, but it's basically like. Like basically you have to understand and they truly believe that because you grew up as a white person.

The world has been about you because you've been the majority culture and it's learning about. Seeing everyone else's perspective and kind of denying your perspective to see that you've only had one piece of it.

I mean, that's where some of the stuff about not having the full gospel comes into effect. That's where you know. Some of the stuff about you don't know. You don't know the whole Bible because you don't know the the person of color perspective.

You don't know the minority. All you know is the the majority in my case the white patriarchal majority. Yeah, all the bad things that I am. Yes very horrible.

Well, you know it what's interesting about this is like as I read through some of the screenshots like. Like some of them like will have a kind of an air of some kind of spirituality about them like right what you just said about sort of.

Denying yourself that kind of sounds biblical. Like it's like okay deny yourself that that's right. Yes, but I mean.

Go ahead. No. No, I mean that's exactly right. I mean, you know, though I mean, I don't carry you people do things online. So I'll call it a night like what David I did at the together for the gospel conference.

Yeah, where he did the Micah where it's like he spent the first two minutes of a 60-minute sermon doing Micah let let justice rain Down that's one of their favorite verses. Yeah and then and then the rest of it was.

Not even an exposition of it. Rest of it was here I forget if it was six or eight of my my suggestions in life and it was just like well. You didn't expose it. You didn't you you say a Bible a concept or a verse.

But then it's not a direct connection or correctly exposited and and you know, the thing is like.

You I guess you you knew about dr. White already and like people that people that are familiar with someone like dr. White. They're used to sort of hearing this kind of presentation before. Yes where you get a piece of Scripture.

But then they instantly move out of it and it's like well what you but but that has nothing to do with what you just Said here and and so we were kind of used to hearing that but you were not used to hearing it from people that we Agree with on most things right?

That's what's interesting about that. Okay, so What why did you decide to reach out to me about this. Because obviously I think it's interesting and it's yes. It's what I'm it's the topic of my youtube channel.

So I understand that but like why did you feel like this was worth telling me about?

Why the Whistleblower Reached Out and Why the Issue Matters

The biggest thing was that I don't know if duplicity is the right word. But you know what I see on Twitter when when there's a lot of this. You know, they say they want peace and they and and some of these same people are calling for this.

I think what people don't understand is when you jump into this or when you go on into this rabbit hole. You don't know how deep it goes. Yeah, I don't think anyone knows how deep it goes because in one sense you cannot ever do enough.

To to to get in one sense their approval. You have to be continually doing things. It's very in that sense. It's very like Catholic. Roman Catholic. Yeah you got to keep paying your penances because of the sin that you don't even know that you did and.

So that that becomes you're you're kind of in a permanent purgatory type state and and. Then just the teeth of it, you know and I know these guys like Daryl Harrison and Votie Bacchum and Sam will say and some of these guys they really.

That I know they get it on their Twitter feed. But I don't know if other people see exactly the vitriol that happens and I didn't get all of it. But there's a same flow some of it that they you know, they're called terrible things.

I mean, you know, they're called like I can't I remember the first time I heard the word coon and I was like wait. Are you about to do that? Like can you call it? It was like well, it's one black man calling another black man coon so it's okay, and I'm like.

And then they use the n-word, which I'm not even gonna attempt to use. Yeah. But yeah, there's so many things that I was like, I can't believe that you're allowed to do this. But it was simply yes, we are because they want diversity and everything.

But their thought if you go against their thought that you are pariah and and open to everything.

You know Paul when you reach out to me and you sent me a few screenshots. You asked me first if I wanted to see them and I said yes. And and I got to be honest with you. Like I've seen a lot of stuff like I've gone out there into the wilds of the internet.

I've seen some some crazy Wild stuff when it comes to social justice. I've watched awful things. I've watched like, you know, not like not like the fake alt-right like I've watched the real alt-right stuff.

Yeah. Yeah, it's vile. No question about it. I've watched some of the craziest, you know, social justice advocates you can think of and so I have a hard stomach for this stuff. But even I was surprised at some of the stuff that I saw coming from people who profess Christ's mouth.

Yeah, and and I shouldn't have been because I kind of knew that this was going on. But but you know the stuff I saw I would have been I would have expected it from unbelievers. I did not expect it just so openly right, but I guess it's really not open.

That's why we're doing the unredacted thing.

You know, yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, you know, so part of it and I know one of the defenses if they're gonna defend This is they're gonna say well, we don't we don't claim that every person in here is Christian.

But it is a Christian group and it's supposedly moderated by Christians. So I would count on with that and yeah, you know. One of the things that happened is you saw even after the Trump thing There are several people that left and and this is before is moderated too heavily to where they would actually Be able to put comments that weren't moderated and and even some black pastors got on there and said we don't think this is right What you're doing and it was basically said if you don't if you don't agree with us, that's fine.

But do not put those types of statements. That's wrong. You just need to leave. Yeah and and so I think what happened is eventually people who were able to kind of put that tension in there to keep a little Bit more in the center that went away and then this just went full full left and it's almost been like in one sense.

You know unchecked left unchecked and and that's what happened, you know.

And and I think that that this is the big danger here and I've said this on my youtube channel a number of times. Especially lately and I've I've so I tried to join the group. Okay, I did try to join.

I did not hear back. I Did not expect to hear back. I also reached out to you know, the witness through their normal channels. I did not hear back from that either. Sure. And that's fine. I understand that I'm a known quantity.

They're not interested in talking to me. That's totally fine. It's if you listen to a past the mic. I think it was 2017 sure 2018 the belief it was that I they were doing over resolutions and They did that.

It was kind of funny the way that they they like I'm not finna, you know it's a yeah, how we say it in the south, you know, one of the things they said is I'm not finna argue with anybody about Merits of racism or anything like that.

We're not even gonna argue anymore. This is it's almost how some people look at climate change. This is a fixed science. This is settled sciences. It's what it is. It's back. There's no reason to argue with people anymore.

So they're not gonna let anyone in.

The Danger of Ideological Gatekeeping and the Risk of Violence

Yeah. Who's gonna argue with you and this is the problem with that and and and and I'm glad you went there because this is what? I'm I'm desperate to avoid. I'm absolutely desperate to avoid. Yeah. Violence and and the reality is the reality is that there's two ways to solve conflicts.

You can talk it out like, you know, like Christians like brothers like a family member. You could talk it out or it's just gonna simmer under the surface until it erupts in Violence and and I gotta be honest with you.

I'm I've said I don't think it's going to leak come to that in the church. I think something else will happen that'll cause it to not come to that. But I'm not so sure to be perfectly honest violence has happened in the church before.

Yeah, and it can happen again. And you know, I saw a tweet just today actually from someone who somehow There was another police shooting and somehow it started they started talking about Protesting churches on Sundays that don't agree that police violence and I.

And the way he said is we should roll up on them. And I don't know if you're familiar with that kind of a slang but rolling up on someone is a violent thing. Yeah.

Yeah, you know what I mean rolling up means you're coming in with guns. I mean coming over right boys with guns.

Yeah, and this and this is a pastor who said this and so I'm not I don't think he means that he wants violence. But the reality is there are some wackos out there that will you know? Run with this kind of stuff and if you're not gonna talk it out and you're not gonna it's just gonna Create more and more extremes.

Yes, and the reality is that I I fault and I credit the rise of the alt-right and white identitarian movements with the left buying into this like.

Minority identitarian stuff right now. It's a definite reaction to it and it's a sinful reaction but a reaction nonetheless. Right. Yeah. I mean like I said before I have two children who are black there.

They're very young and yes I am concerned about the future that they are going to inherit because is this gonna be your future like you said that becomes violent. You know, obviously the first thing I pray for a month for them is them to be saved if nothing else I want them to say but after that I mean, yes I want them to grow up in a world where their ideas are seen as the same and just because their skin is a Certain amount of melanin and it doesn't mean you know one thing or the other and I just fear that that may not be the case.

Yeah, so I do appreciate you reaching out, you know, is there anything else you feel like you'd want to say before you know. We we finish.

No, I mean, I you know, I I knew that you would do this in a balanced way. And that was another reason I reached out to you. I know that you use scripture to do it and I know that you're not, you know.

We don't attack an ad hominem type way. We are people who I want to attack ideas and I'll attack ideas all day long. You know not necessarily. Just the person and so yeah, I want to attack their ideas and I I don't wish harm on them.

I don't wish. You know, I'm not going to sit there and question, you know. That's a big thing right now is what now we're going through history and saying who saved who's not saved and it's crazy. You know but What I'm gonna say is I can't judge your heart, but I can definitely judge your words and and say, you know.

So I'm hoping this leads to open conversation. That's me dear and not not duplicitous conversation. I I don't try to want people to be. I'm not trying to get people harmed in any way. And I'm not trying to incite violence.

What I want is for this to see what happens when? Darkness in one sense is left unchecked. Yeah, I can have some type of.

Closing Appeal: Scripture, Light, and Christ’s Victory Over Woke Ideology

So that's it. Yeah. No, I I'm glad you said that and and and honestly, that's that's my hope for this as well. I mean at the end of the day, I'd rather have a conversation with somebody I'd rather I'd weather I'd rather go to the scripture and see you know, if these things are so if what you're saying is so great.

Let's talk about it. If not, you know, let's let's talk about that, too. I'd rather do that. But but but there's just no this they're not finna do it. You know what I mean? So so so this is this is what I'm gonna do and and and hopefully this kind of you know.

The scripture says that oh man, I wish I had the quote memorized. I just don't have this memorized but it says when when things are brought to light. It becomes light like it's almost like a disinfectant of in a certain sense.

And I think that oftentimes when people are exposed they might take a good look in the mirror. They might say, you know, you know, how far have I come here? Right and that's what I'm hoping and that's what I'm hoping.

I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings or anything like that. But but The reality is that that there are lots of people in this movement that would like to have a lot bigger Platforms more power and the reality is that even in this very small sphere of authority as Facebook group.

That's I don't think you can get smaller than that. That's a very little authority. They are abusing it to the nth degree. They are not faithful with a little bit of authority. And so there is no way we should give them more authority.

Yeah, no that and that was one of the fears, you know that everyone says is no. We're not trying to just you know gain, you know power over you. We just want equality and it's like when you see things in this.

What you actually see is it's not necessarily about its quality. A lot of it is it's like your time is up. Shut up it's our turn and you know do what we say and and. You know, we all come to the table of God equal.

And our ideas need to be under his sovereign control and and you know, we can discuss them under that in that way.

All right, Paul. Well, thank you so much for everything and we'll be in touch soon. You can stay on the line. I'm just gonna stop recording. Okay? Well, I hope you enjoyed that. I hope you enjoyed that very much.

I you know, I think. You would probably agree with me that you know, you know, Paul seems like a genuine guy. Paul seems like someone who really wants to help he seems like he has his heart in the right place you know he he wanted to to sort of explore this because he wanted to make sure that he's doing everything he could for his black children and for just the the plight of black Americans in general and what he found was not biblical and and he kind of knew that up front and You know, I think a lot of people kind of know that some of this stuff just isn't biblical.

But they don't really know how to put words to it. And so I would just encourage you, you know If you make content in this area to continue to do so make sure that you're being a slave to Christ in this regard that you're Searching the scriptures to make sure that everything that you're saying is so is so.

And you know, I just I just you know. Just pray that all of you would be courageous in this and this is something that will be destroyed. I mean Christ will put critical theory and the woke church, you know.

Aberrations that are out there the the bad stuff in it because there's some good stuff in it, too. But it's not good stuff unique to woke church. It's not you see that's the thing. It's good stuff that is good that that Christianity brings to the table not stuff that the woke church movement brings to the table.

This will be put under the feet of Christ. It is an enemy. It is just that simple. It will be made a footstool for his feet. And so know that your efforts will not go unfulfilled. Christ has already acquired the victory over all of his enemies over the enemies of socialism over the enemies of Critical theory over the enemies of black liberation theology all of this evil nonsense Christ has been victorious.

So your efforts will not be in vain. I pray that you all have a good night tonight and that you enjoy social justice unrejected. God bless.