Biblical Manhood with Hip-hop Artist Dusty Marshall.

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What's going on everybody? You are tuning in to another show of Provoked, and I'm sitting right next to my beautiful little tiny old short sister,

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Desi. Thank you. And one of the best, I heard the best person who ever lived, Dustin Marshall's in the house.

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It's true. He couldn't show up, so I came. What's up brother? It's good having you.

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I can't wait to talk to you. So if you're just tuning in to our show, you've never seen us before. It's just a basic show that wants to glorify

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Christ. And we named it Provoked because we want to provoke people, stir them to action, is what that word means.

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Stirring to action to do what? It's just really faithful Christianity. Right. We're no anybody special.

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We're just faithful servants of Christ, wanting to glorify him, wanting to use our lives and the tools that he's given us in this great venue to bring

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Jesus glory. Come alongside of the church and provoke people to biblically evangelize and to share the faith with everybody that they know, to save babies because we think it's a preeminent issue.

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It's a premier issue going on in our land as Jesus is putting all enemies under his feet. We know he's going to put this enemy to death.

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Sometimes it feels like it's never going to happen, but it's going to happen eventually. Right. And then destroying cultural idols.

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That's kind of the thrust of the show. What you could do right now in support of Apologia Studios, we're so thankful for them.

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Of course, I'm an elder at Apologia Church. What you can do is go to Apologia Studios and become an all access member.

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So as you get that membership, you're going to pour into your own life, just the tremendous teaching that they have to give to you and your family.

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And then you help us keep these lights on. You help us keep us doing what we're doing because all we want to do again, as we always say, is do what you want to do.

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And to get that gospel out far and wide. That's our primary mission. I just met with a guy and he had told me that his pastor was trying to stop him from preaching the gospel to people.

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Because he felt like he said, I don't want you to preach the gospel. It was what they were doing. They were giving food to people through their windows because of the

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COVID thing. And he said, well, pastor, I just want to share the gospel. I don't think it's evangelism if we're not communicating

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Christ to these people. So he started to do that. And the guy said, well, the pastor said, I just don't want to be seen as the

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Mormons or some Westboro Baptist church people. That's pretty crazy.

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That's just the downgrade, this reductionism that's happened within the greater American evangelical church.

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So in this show, we want to kind of take the shades off that and kind of do our best to define what evangelism is from a biblical kind of worldview.

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So thank you so much for doing that. And thank you for your support. And just the reviews that you guys have been giving us have been so encouraging.

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And the messages we've been getting of moms and people just sharing the gospel, getting the courage to do it.

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That's all we want. If one person listened to this out of however long God has us doing this and said, you know what?

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I listened to that show and the Lord just gave me the strength to share the gospel with one person.

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I'd be like, hallelujah. Thank you. Yeah, it's all worth it. And those are the best kind of comments that we have coming to the show is, hey, you know what?

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You really helped me and encouraged me to get out there and share the faith. I'm like, well, that's good enough for me. It's awesome. So before we start talking to Mr.

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Dusty Marshall, just a couple things. A while back, we had an interview with Juan Bustos and he changed his mind about his abortion kind of stance.

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He went from being pro -choice to pro -life, which is awesome. And I'm going to have a conversation.

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He's starting to read his Bible now. And he actually said he got off all the pages that were hating on pro -life people, abolitionist people.

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So God's really doing a work on him. So be praying for him. We are having a debate with an atheist coming up in a couple of weeks.

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That'll actually be the next time we record. So be praying for that, please. And we really want to get a flat earther on the show.

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So if you believe the earth is flat and you want to come on and have a conversational debate, we don't really do formal debates here.

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I'm just very conversational. It's very respectful and fun. And you're going to have a good time.

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We're going to treat you with respect. But if you'd like to come on the show, we would love for you to come on the show. So keep that in mind.

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You can contact us through our Facebook page or anything like that. It'll be a flat out good time.

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All right. So thanks for coming on the show, man. I appreciate you. You're a member of Apology of Church.

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So thankful for you, brother. I don't want to embarrass you, but you've been such a servant lately, a help to me lately and all that we have to do, how busy we are.

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And I think you're such a mixture of a man who is confident and bold, incredibly hard worker, great work ethic.

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I know you're hating this, but just bear with me for a second. That's why I like you so much, because you're hating it. But also a servant's heart.

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And I just want to tell you how much I appreciate you coming into my life and just being a part of the church here.

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Absolutely important part. So let's just talk about you. I want to hear your testimony and maybe just go back a little ways, tell us who you are, how

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God saved you and what you're doing and what you want to do. Awesome. Yeah. Well, thank you for all those kind words.

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I appreciate it very much. And it's my pleasure to help and offer God's glory.

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Yeah. So my background, you know, I'm inner city kid, come from, you know, not so good areas in Los Angeles and got involved in drugs early on in my life, about 12.

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I started smoking marijuana and that progressed. And, you know, eventually by age 15, 16,

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I was, you know, selling drugs and just in with, you know, pretty much like from 16 to, you know, early 20s was like a criminal, you know, never, never served time, never got caught by the grace of God.

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But yeah, just, you know, really dark, dark times.

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And, you know, I was perfectly fine living in that lifestyle for a long time.

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And then eventually things, addiction started to take over and get really heavy and progress for me and life and depression and relationships just, you know, got, those idols started taking from me.

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And, you know, within the same week in my 20s, I lost a close friend to an overdose and another close friend to a suicide.

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And I can remember like up until that point, you know, drugs for me was a numbing, you know, a way for me to just escape, numb whatever

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I was facing and get away from it. But when I lost my two friends in the same week, it was like, there was no longer a mixture of drugs or alcohol to numb my emotions and I was just a mess, like an emotional wreck.

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And eventually that pushed me further into addiction and isolation. But, you know,

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I don't like to use the word God got a hold of me because, you know, nothing is out of his grasp, but I know

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God used those dark circumstances to bring me closer to him and to finally come to know him in faith.

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So, yeah, that was, you know, I... So you didn't grow up in a Christian home like us? No, no,

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I didn't grow up in a Christian home, but it was weird because everybody else around my mom and dad and my family were

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Christians. In fact, my mom and dad put me in Christian school like the first, up to fifth grade.

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And so I had a Christian education up to fifth grade and then they took me out and put me in public school and around that, that's like around the time

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I started, you know, to get introduced to drugs. I mean, my dad had always, you know, smoked marijuana and that was always around and I always knew about it.

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It wasn't something that he hid. But, you know, when I went to public school and started hanging around the people in my neighborhood,

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I got involved, you know, in the inner city life and had a lot of friends and gangs and stuff early on.

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So definitely had an influence on me leaving even Christian school, you know?

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Yeah. So you got to a breaking point with your addictions and what was the segue into the faith?

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I mean, did somebody come alongside of you and share the gospel? Yeah, so, you know,

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I had, I lived in California. I grew up in Southern California, Long Beach area. And then when my two friends died,

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I decided like, you know what, all my problems, it's my location. It's not me, it's where I live.

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So I was like, I'm gonna relocate. I moved to Las Vegas where I had some friends out there and they were in a worse situation.

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And I found out when I moved out there for the first day I got to the apartment that I was living in in Las Vegas, the water and power were off, shut off.

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That was like my first introduction, like, hey, welcome. The lights and power off, by the way. So I made a great choice.

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Yes. I was like, so I knew that that was a winner. But no, you know, I met a girl in Las Vegas online.

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And, you know, she sometimes talked about her faith, but, you know, wasn't too deep into it.

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And then one night I had a moment of clarity. It was in the middle of the night. I was coming down.

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I was on ecstasy. And I was coming down and I looked at myself in the mirror and all of a sudden

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I had this moment of clarity where I could see my life for what it was, like God revealed to me a little bit of the destruction in my life.

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And I knew whatever I had to do to stop my addiction in that moment

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I needed to do. So I ended up calling this girl in the middle of the night who, you know, sometimes talked about Jesus.

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And it was like five in the morning, but she was a casino dealer in Vegas. And she was like, hey, if you're serious about getting clean, show up to church.

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I'll introduce you to some people who can help. And I was like, OK, I'll be there. And she was like, you know, churches at 10 a .m.

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It was like six a .m., five or six. So she didn't think I would show up, but I did.

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I showed up to church and I heard the gospel preached. And actually, when I walked in the church,

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I thought I was just meeting her. You know, I was going to sit down and meet her and sit in this, you know, small church.

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It was this huge megachurch. And I was sitting right next to her and her entire family, her grandmother, her sister and their whole family and their kids.

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And I was just like, second uncles and just yeah, you name it. They were there. Yeah. And I was like,

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OK, I guess I'm here. But I heard the gospel preached and God just was really breaking me down, you know, my sinfulness.

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And then she took me back to the care department in the church. And there was a guy back there and we talked and he prayed for me and he asked if I would show up to a program called

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Celebrate Recovery that they had at the church, which is, you know, a Christ -centered 12 -step.

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I'll use quotations. I love the program and I believe it's, you know, the purpose of it is to point people towards Christ.

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But God really used that program as a discipleship program for me. And through the program, you know, and God working in my life,

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I got sober and eventually got baptized and gave my life to Christ.

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That's awesome. Yeah. So you God saves you. I hate saying you get saved. God saved me.

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He saved me sovereignly. As reformed folk, we get so particular about what's good.

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That's what my preaching teacher told me. It's a precision and dignity. OK, so God saves you.

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And then what happened there? When did you meet the love of your life? So, yeah, I'm going through, you know, this

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Christ -centered 12 -step. I'm attending church. I got baptized. And the girl that I called in the middle of the night, you know, is going through her own recovery.

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And, you know, there's bits of relationship stuff there, but I'm like also trying to stay away from it because, you know,

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I'm trying to stay like stay on the path that God has me and not like get involved in relationships, which

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I had constantly destroyed up until that point. But, you know,

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God really moved. And this person, you know, every time I tried to pull away,

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God would kind of pull us back together through circumstances. And yeah, I eventually ended up marrying this woman who told me to come to church in the middle of the night.

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And yeah, the rest is history. That was 2012.

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So yeah, about a little. No. 2010 is when we met. 2012 is when we got married.

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And that was Crystal. Crystal Marshall. Yeah. She's amazing. So how long you guys been married?

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This nine years in March. Yeah. OK. So you get married and then what happens?

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Well, she had it. I come from a background, you know, I was always into hip hop music.

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I loved writing. And I also really had a heart for people coming out of addiction.

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And me, you know, I was about 26 at the time. And, you know, I would see in these recovery groups that I was in a lot of older people, you know, people that had lost their wife and kids to an addiction or lost everything they own.

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But I didn't see a lot of younger people. So I really wanted to be a light to younger people who still thought like the party life was fun, you know.

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And I wanted to share the truth with them and kind of help them, disciple them through the recovery process and point them to Christ.

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So I started serving in the recovery program as a group leader. And, you know,

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I had a gift in music, Christian hip hop, and my wife had a gift in singing. So through the program, we reached out to other groups across the country and were able to go share testimony and music at different celebrate recoveries.

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And we started our ministry called the Regular for Christ Ministries. In my past as a secular hip hop artist, my name was

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Irregular. So I wanted to use that name, but flip it and make it, you know, all

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God honoring music. So that's how I got the name. So what does it mean to be a regular for Christ if somebody asked you to explain it?

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Because I know that was your past name. Yes. Just standing firm on the truth and not, you know, not looking like the rest of the world, you know, not the commonplace to be different, which we see is becoming more and more apparent.

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True Christians really stand out in their preaching, in their morality, you know, well in in their moral exemplary than, you know, the world looks to do.

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So that was kind of the idea, is stand firm on the truth and not waver, you know, in that.

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Right on. So what year was that you started the ministry? It was 2000, end of 2012, early 2013.

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And my wife and I probably shouldn't have been doing ministry at the time. We're still, you know, baby

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Christians and, you know, marital issues, um, leadership issues, struggles in the household.

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And, you know, we'd be like we traveled that first year we did ministry, 90, we did 93 different celebrate recoveries in that year, all across the country in one year, in one year.

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Wow. Yeah. So we were, we were just constantly gone, um, on the road, but, you know, we would be sharing our testimony of what

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God had done in our lives at, uh, you know, a celebrate recovery large group and doing music, but then we wouldn't, we'd be fighting like cats and dogs before and after and then putting on, you know, the

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Christian face. Sure. Yeah. So, so yeah, that was something early on, but, um, you know,

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God, uh, is, is, um, faithful and he sanctifies us.

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And, uh, in 2014, we were blessed with our first daughter, um, but, you know, in the news of finding out about our first daughter, uh, we found out about some major health issues that she was having while in the womb at 20 weeks old, which is kind of a crazy story.

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If you want me to get into that, I will. So, so my wife and I, early on, we were like, we wanted to have a home birth and kind of avoid a lot of ultrasounds and stuff.

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So we went to a novelty place at 20 weeks, which is, you know, not like a doctor's office to find out the gender of our daughter.

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And we went in and it was a Christian place. And the woman does the ultrasound in right in the middle of the ultrasound.

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She's like, you know, I probably shouldn't be telling you this, but I see something wrong with your baby's spine and you should probably go and get it checked out.

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And we were like, just like shocked in that moment. That's not what we were expecting. We're expecting to go in and find out the gender.

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And that was it. So we are freaked out. We drive over to the emergency room, the doctors there, we go to the, you know, the, um, specialists there to get the ultrasound.

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And they're like, we don't see anything. So we were like super confused what's going on.

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So a few weeks later we go, they, they send us to like some specialists and they do find out that our daughter's spine didn't fully form.

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And she had what's called spina bifida. And then they flew us out to Colorado.

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We were living in Las Vegas to find out if we would qualify for emergency surgery while our daughter was still in the uterus.

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But in the, all the testing they do to see if she would qualify, they found a major life -threatening heart defect that she had.

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So she didn't qualify for the surgery. So that was early on in our marriage, you know, very scary, terrifying.

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And you know, the doctors even were recommending abortion a lot of the times to us.

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And we're like, well, no, but like, kind of like negative information that you're giving us when we're in this time of worry and you're telling us to kill our child.

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Right. So yeah, it was a, it was a scary time. Wow. Right. Yeah. So she's born and, uh, was she born with a heart defect?

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So she, they did a scan of her heart every week and they saw the heart defect every week.

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Um, and then she was born C -section in Colorado at the children's hospital there. And they did a scan of her heart and it was perfectly healthy.

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Wow. The day that she was born. So her heart was healed. Um, and I'm very, very amazed and grateful about that.

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And in that time, you know, we, Crystal and I got on our knees and we're like, God, if you just get us through this, you know, in our travels, we will share this testimony, uh, and encourage parents to choose life.

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And, um, that's exactly what we did. You know, after she was born, she was in the NICU for three weeks.

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She had a shunt put in her brain. She had her spine, uh, spinal cord put back in some major surgeries.

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And then a man donated a motor home to us. And we started traveling the country, living in the motor home with,

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I've never even ridden in a motor home before that time. And we were living in one in Colorado.

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It was like 10 degrees outside, outside pipes, freezing over kind of crazy, but yeah, we traveled and the country, we shared our testimony.

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We lived wherever we were parked. Mail was interesting trying to get wherever we were at, but, um, it was just a, it was an awesome journey.

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Yeah. That's exciting. I mean, that's amazing. Cause you were doing all that while caring for a child with spina bifida, which is difficult.

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Yes. Yeah. Um, and the doctor said that her, you know, prognosis for walking wasn't very good, right?

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Yeah. They said there's a good chance that she would never have use of her legs. Um, and, uh, you know, when she came out, you could see that her legs, she was able to move them and yeah, she's, she's walking now.

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She sits, stands next to me and sings the doxology at church. That's right. And her and my kids go up and down the stairs and yeah.

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Praise God. She's amazing. Little amnesty. I'm excited to see what God does with her.

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And she's got something special about her and she's got the best personality. She's magnetic. She has just like a dynamic about her personality and yeah,

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I just love her. I got to, uh, I got to babysit her when you guys were Marie for a couple hours and Noel too.

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And she is hilarious. Like you go to talk to her like a little kid and she's no, she's got

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Crystal's little personality. Uh, yeah. I remember she told me I was like, uh,

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I was, we were playing like they wanted to play shopping cart or something and I'm like, okay, we're going to do snap time.

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And she said, no, Miss Desi, I am not done playing shopping cart. I did this little voice.

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I was like, Oh, I love you. Okay. I'm going to do whatever you say. She will do that. She does.

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She says things in a way that are cute and she gets away with a lot more than her sisters. Oh yeah.

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That's like our little Macy. He does the same thing. Okay. So you're traveling around tremendous schedule.

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That's what I like about you too, is your drive. You just have this ambition and drive and that's what we got to do. And I like what you said, you know, you started the ministry, but you shouldn't have started it.

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But I think, you know, sometimes we got to build as Christians, but we wait until like the perfect time and we're perfectly capable of starting something, which is when never, never.

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And so Christians have to build them. We grow as we go, right? We grow. We, you know, and there's, there's a wrong time to do something.

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I get that. I really appreciate the fact that you said, no, God, you put this in my heart. I'm going to build this ministry for your glory to write music.

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That's going to honor you and bring truth to light, right? Be salty in the culture, be firm when everybody else is being capitulating and compromising.

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So that's good. We need to learn from that build now, even in the face of, you know, the direst of circumstances or the bleakest outlook, you know, we got to build.

23:55

And so I appreciate that you did that. Yeah. I think it's tempting to like be, you know, anybody that's wanting to get into ministry or even just participate in evangelism to look at their own life and be like, you know,

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I'm fighting with my spouse too much or X, Y, Z, I can't do it. But I mean, there's, there's disqualifying things obviously that would disqualify from leadership, even that if you've got some major issues in your home, you probably shouldn't go out and preach the gospel.

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You should work on your family first. But there's also always going to be some sort of sanctification going on some level of sin in your own life, in your own heart that God is, you know, conforming you more into the likeness of Christ.

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And so don't let that be a reason unless it's some major, major sin for you to keep your mouth shut and not share the gospel.

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I'm just saying we're, we're all walking out this, this thing together being sanctified. Yeah. No, that's a good point.

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I mean, the Bible says, if you say that you have no sin, you're a liar and the truth is not in you. And, and God, and God uses our brokenness and he uses our weakness to show his mistakes and our failures to teach us and to grow us and to refine us and to build our character.

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That's why when God puts something in your heart, do it, just do it. You know, I think you want to do it in the context of local church and get eldership council and that's all mandatory, but we need

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Christians to build. Right. Yeah. So, gosh,

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I was going to say something. I'm sorry to interrupt. Yeah. Well, I just want to say, you know, through that circumstance with my daughter, you know,

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God really did a work on my marriage because, you know,

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I have always been a person who's like you said, hardworking, but that could also be to a fault because I think that I can do things in my own strength, that I can fix a problem in my own strength, that I can figure my way,

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I can figure it out how to fix it. But in the circumstance with my daughter and in my marriage,

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God put me in a position where everything's out of my hands and I had nowhere else to go but to just lean and trust and like just dive in, both my wife and I.

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And, you know, God just did an amazing work in our marriage where obviously it wasn't, you know, the perfect marriage and still isn't, but you know, the petty arguments that we had before were very much put to the side because we saw the importance of, you know, what

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God had in front of us and that we were one flesh and that we needed you know, to lean on God and one another, you know, and he really did a work in our marriage through that struggle.

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So I tell people, and I did an album called Beauty and the Struggle, and that's the idea is that, you know,

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God, the Bible talks about struggles being a character strengthening process, you know,

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Romans 5. And, you know, it was very much something that God used to to build our character and our hope that was in him.

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Right. That's exactly right. You have, James says, perseverance must work its course so that we can be mature and complete.

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James chapter one, we have to have stuff to persevere through. So we say, God, refine me. I want to be used for your glory.

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Prepare me to be, you know, used for you, whatever you want me to do. And sometimes we forget that it's affliction and the fire is a refining fire that we got to go through to be able to prepare.

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You always, maybe you know that conceptually, but when you're going through it, you're like, I'm being punished and I'm doing the wrong thing.

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And he's pushing me off the side when it's all apart. Remember when you prayed to make, for me to make you more like Jesus.

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Yeah. Remember that? Yeah. Like there's a song that you're refiner's, remember refiner's fire, the old one to be holy, like praying down the refiner's fire.

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God's like, you don't even know what you're asking. Yeah. You want to be more like me? Yeah. Exactly right.

28:01

So that's awesome. So you, what was your first album? Uh, the first, well, I had a Christian album. First Christian album was a mixtape is called a regular for Christ ministries mixtape.

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And then I had some early on stuff, but first, like what I would consider album is beauty in the struggle.

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And that has, you know, the testimony of my daughter in it. She's actually on the cover.

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And, um, just like I wrote that album wall going through that time.

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So it was so like fresh and real. It wasn't like I waited till after that circumstance to do the album.

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I wrote it wall. I was going through it. The lyrics are powerful. Thanks man. So you got something on the docket though.

28:43

What are you working on now? Well, I'm working on an album now. Um, I'm not a hundred percent sure on the title, but, um, yeah,

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I'm, I'm writing all the time. I'm doing a remix album to American Holocaust. So I'll be remixing a lot of those songs with new instrumentals.

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And, um, yeah, just kind of continuing to push that because I feel like it went, it went out and it did okay, but I want to like, continue to get the message out there and I can just change the beat and the lyrics are the same and continue to promote it.

29:17

Um, because I think the message still needs to be heard, especially the culture that we're living in right now.

29:24

So, well, we want people to support your ministry, kind of, um, tell them where they can go maybe to listen to your albums and to also give you guys support and maybe why, why should we support your ministry?

29:37

Okay. Yeah. For, for music stuff, you can go to dustymarshall .com that's D -U -S -T -Y and then marshall,

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M -A -R -S -H -A -L -L with two L's dot com. You can find all my music and my shop through there.

29:51

You can go to any of the, um, any of the streaming platforms and you can just search

29:56

Dusty Marshall, it'll pop up. And as far as the ministry stuff goes, it's irregularforchrist .com

30:03

and I'm kind of separating the two at the moment because I really want to focus on the abortion side of things, rescuing babies on the irregular for Christ side and music with Dusty Marshall just to give more of a focus there.

30:18

Um, so people aren't as confused, but you know, they work together. And then, and then yeah, social media is, uh, dmarshall535 and then

30:27

I4Cmin is the ministry. Right on. And you also have a podcast called

30:33

Reform Dads, right? I do. I do have a podcast. Yeah. Let's get, tell us about that because that's going to segue into our main topic, which is biblical manhood and why it's so needed right now.

30:44

Yeah. So, you know, that's, it's so important to me because I just, in my walk as a

30:51

Christian, you know, I, before coming to Apologia, I was at mega churches, um, very much, uh, even jellyfish as Jeff would call it, or Doug Wilson would call it, where it's just, um, not a lot of, um, discipleship, a lot of, you know, big performances and big stages and pastors that aren't reachable.

31:14

Um, but I, I very much see a need for, um, biblical manhood, you know, to be taught and to, to be encouraged and not just taught and encouraged, but men to come alongside each other and encourage one another to lead biblically.

31:32

So, uh, a friend of mine and I started Reform Dads, uh, which is a podcast and it's, you know, the taglines, uh, all things are for dads, through dads, and to dads, uh, as well as the aspiring husband and father to, to help them to lead their family in a biblical way.

31:51

Um, and, uh, you know, at our church, I've just, since being at Apologia, it's almost four years, you know,

31:59

I've seen men lead by word and by example.

32:05

And I've been challenged to, you know, do things like family worship and, um, do, like, just be, be the head of my household, you know, spiritually.

32:18

And, um, I was never challenged like that before. Um, I never, you know,

32:25

I was always given, like, I would do counseling, my wife and I would do marriage counseling and they would, the counselor would say, you know, you guys are like a football team where one of you passes the ball to the other and the other one passes the ball and when one of you gets weak, the other one.

32:40

But I was never taught about, like, well, the leadership of this team falls on you.

32:47

God's going to hold you responsible for how you lead your family, how you raise your children.

32:54

It starts with you, uh, and then everything flows from that. It begins with Christ and then the father's the, the head of the household and the wife and the children.

33:04

But, you know, part of most, most of the issues in my household were a fight over who's leading the family for, for years and years.

33:13

And since coming to Apologia, there's just really been, um, proper roles taught.

33:21

And that's what I want to, to do through the podcast is talk about, um, the blessings of our differences as, as a husband and a wife, not the, uh, you know, we should be equal and equally submissive and, you know, this whole cultural idea.

33:41

Yeah. Kind of a cultural perversion of the biblical model. Absolutely. Do you have any, I have a couple of questions to ask him.

33:47

Do you have any? No, you go ahead. Yeah. So I think it's tremendous. And that's been on my heart for a long time.

33:53

God saved me about 20, 25 years ago. And so just immediately it was, man,

33:59

I really want to become a man after God's own heart. I mean, look at David and, uh, with all of his foibles and with all of his sins, you know, he was a man after God's own heart.

34:08

And so this idea of biblical manhood has always been on kind of my radar. We started something here called biblical manhood training for younger guys.

34:15

And of course, we're going to get our men's ministry back going so we can focus on the men. It's so important.

34:21

So if you had, and I know this is a huge question and we could talk about this for ever, but, um, if you had a message into reform dads and some guys like, you know what,

34:31

I don't even know what you're talking about. I mean, how would you define a biblical man?

34:36

So he asked you that question. How would you maybe succinctly define it? Um, well, you know,

34:42

Jesus gives us a great example, uh, of, of biblical man, you know, um, serrated edge at times, um, speaking the truth, um, not, not shying away from, um, responsibilities.

35:00

You know, uh, a biblical man, uh, is, uh, one who's okay with the responsibilities falling on his shoulders and, and leading his family.

35:15

And in knowing that in being able to make decisions, not just for selfish ambition, but for the good of his family and for the furtherment of the gospel, you know, the, our culture is all about me, me, me, but I would say the biblical man, um, knows his role and makes decisions based on the common good or the biblical good,

35:43

I would say. Yeah, that's good. That's a good definition. What do you think does, I mean, from a woman, womanly perspective,

35:49

I mean, um, what, uh, and I know of course our standards of scriptures and our authorities of scripture, but what do you, when you think about like a biblical man, like a

35:59

God honoring man, like a true man, man, how would you define that? Um, a man that lays down his life for his family and leads and looks to God and scripture and, um, you know, is basically like the fortress around his, his family to protect them and to lead them to Christ.

36:22

Um, so I think Don is an example. I was going to just say, I think of my husband. So what do you, what do you see?

36:28

I see so many things in Don that are so exemplary. He's just, um, faithful, you know, and I really look up to him for that because I'm trying to achieve that.

36:37

But I, and I know he's a sinner and I know he's got stuff he works on, but when you look at your husband, like what, uh, what do you love about it?

36:44

What are some just bedrock character qualities that you think are exemplary or really define what a man is in integrity is the first thing

36:52

I think about Don is he's has more integrity than anybody I've met. You know, what's in, like, how would you define integrity?

37:00

Um, just doing the right thing when nobody's looking, you know, um, I, sometimes he'll do things and I'm like, man, if I, if, if it was me, you know, and I worked from home, maybe

37:12

I would take a nap here and there. He's so, you know, he's so, um, honest and has so much integrity, um, that I, I just respect that so much.

37:21

And it's such a good example to our children. And of course he's a sinner. He's not perfect in that area.

37:27

Uh, but to me that nobody could ever accuse him of not having integrity, you know?

37:35

Um, the other is just he, um, he doesn't like to be in the limelight.

37:40

He's more of a person that would like to be off. Like I've teased him before, like you should come on the show. He would rather go scrub the toilets than be on the show because he doesn't want the attention, you know?

37:51

Um, and he's strong. He protects, you know? Um, so those are some of the things when

37:57

I think about my husband, um, is, you know, being a biblical man is he loves the Lord.

38:02

He leads us. He's a man of integrity and he wants to make less of himself and more of Christ.

38:08

Yeah. Yeah. He's awesome. So what do we do? What happens if we don't teach biblical manhood?

38:15

What happens if we don't model this thing? I mean, what are the, what is the fallout of that?

38:21

Well, you know, the world is in the, especially even in our country, the world is in the state that it is.

38:27

Um, and I'd say that, um, men failing to lead is the reason men failing to stand up for what's true and what's right.

38:38

And the word of God is why we are where we are. And, you know,

38:43

I would say that the weight and the responsibility is on men. If we led better, um, talk about abortion.

38:53

Uh, if men led their household, um, and assured their wives that they were, um, going to be the man they were called to be to take care and provide and protect.

39:06

Um, you know, I would say we'd probably reduce a lot of the abortion going on in our nation.

39:12

If men, if men didn't look to just self indulge themselves, um, you know, with their sexual desires, we wouldn't have father, the fatherless child all the time.

39:24

You know, it's, it's men failing to do what is right. Right. Men being cowards.

39:30

Hold that thought right. So we were at Acacia Women's Center. Were you there when the guy came and he had kind of that neon Jeep? Uh, no.

39:37

Yeah. So his first, first strike. Well, actually he ends up being great.

39:46

You know, we, in front of the abortion clinic is when you see, um, the anti -man or what

39:53

God didn't intend a man to be. Right. He's actually ushering his child in the womb into a place to pay for them to get killed because he doesn't want the responsibility.

40:01

That's the opposite of what men do. You know, so many people say, and we even heard it yesterday.

40:07

Why is there any women around here? Or, you know, we say, well, it's a man's responsibility to protect kids and protect women.

40:13

That's what we do. So this guy rolls up in this Jeep and he got, gets on out and he's like, you know, smoking or doing something.

40:20

And I'm like, okay, maybe this is just going to be the typical exchange with him. And he's like, I'm like, man, did you, did you talk to her?

40:26

He's like, yeah, I've been on the phone and this is my baby in there. I'm trying to stop my baby from getting killed.

40:32

And we're like, thank God we never hear that. And it rarely were rare. And so he's like, yeah, I'm a man. I'm like, well, I'll help you financially.

40:38

He's like, no, you're not going to help me financially. That's my responsibility. My responsibility is to care for this child. I got money.

40:43

And so he did everything he could. Oh, I remember that. Yes, I was there. Yeah. He did everything he could to talk to her and she ends up killing the baby, but it was such a good example.

40:53

And maybe so, you know, not what we see a lot out there, just willing to assume responsibility, say, no, this is the wrong thing to do.

41:04

But yeah, you know, if we don't teach this, like you're saying, if we don't lead, if this thing, if we don't as Christian men, teach the younger men and our kids what it means to be a man, then these, this feminine man, this godless man, this man that God did not design is just going to continue to be the, his model and his example is going to be, continue to be perpetuated throughout, you know, culture.

41:30

It's just a vicious circle, you know, men giving birth to boy, men, boy, men giving birth to boy, men.

41:36

And it just goes on and on and on. And the culture falls down because of it. Yeah. We just see a whole nation of men in the, in the dereliction of their duties.

41:45

They've, you know, all, all this depravity with abortion, pornography, we could just go on and on, just sexual immorality, divorce, you know, it's a lot of it is men not leading their household, obviously not being repentant and submitted to Christ, but even within the church, not leading the way

42:08

God has called us, has called you men to lead, you know. And it really,

42:14

I think a big problem with it is because a lot of these men are looking at pulpits. I mean, what's more influential than the pulpits of a given nation?

42:22

Nothing is more influential because these men speak at the pulpit as if they were proclaiming what the scriptures say, the oracles of God, thus sayeth the

42:31

Lord. And so if you have spiritual leaders who are not preaching biblical manhood, teaching biblical manhood and modeling biblical manhood, then of course that just gets, that just flows down into the church and then what that flows down into the culture.

42:47

So it's really the pulpits in these men. And I appreciate what you said when you came to Apologia and you said, well, I saw these guys teaching and leading by example.

42:55

And that's why I came to Apologia is, you know, I didn't, we didn't come to Arizona to primarily become a part of this church, but I saw in Pastor Luke and Pastor Jeff, I said, well, these guys are crazy, funny, but they're actually leading from the front.

43:11

They're being these bullet catching pastors when the good captain in any type of military conflict is the bullet catching captain.

43:21

He's the guy that's going out front. He's leading the charge and that's who we have to be. But I think unfortunately in the pastorate in America, there's a whole lot of knowledge going on.

43:33

There's a whole lot of giftedness in the ability to teach and understand and parse out scriptural truths and that you have to have that.

43:39

Yeah, it's important. But there's a massive, I think, decline or weakness in just exemplifying what it means to be a man, what it means to, you know, let me, let me bring you alongside of me, which we're supposed to do.

43:54

Like Paul said in second Thessalonians, I'm going to share my life with you. Let me bring you alongside of you to show you how to share the faith and to show you how to balance your faith.

44:02

I hope they get rid of receipts. I can't wait until the seats go, bye bye.

44:09

Really? Yeah. Anyway, We still use them. Yeah. I mean like, you know, having to... A big book of them?

44:15

Cause you take your receipts, right? And you put your receipts in like a little receipt box and then the carbon wears off.

44:21

You can't even read them. Don't even get it. Anyway, that was a sidetrack, but it's men who will take, we as God's men pursuing biblical manhood, look into Christ to be the,

44:32

He is the maximum man, right? He is the quintessential man, the standard of a man.

44:38

But we're looking to Him, we're training ourselves, and then we're training our sons and training the men around us.

44:44

That's what's gonna happen. Yeah. I was just gonna say, your podcast is so needed, you know?

44:49

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I think even in churches, we're changing who

44:57

Jesus was to fit the culture. And men are following that example of Jesus, this, you know, hippie -loving

45:07

Jesus who just approves everybody, He just forgives everything, He loves everything and everyone.

45:14

And then the men, oh, I wanna be like Jesus, and they don't speak out against injustice, they don't protect anyone, they just emotionally love everyone and everything.

45:31

Like, that's not who Jesus was or is, you know? That's not the biblical model that Jesus gave us, you know?

45:40

He was a carpenter and He was, you know, prophet, priest, king.

45:45

He was, He cared about justice, He cared about God's law, He spoke out against the

45:52

Pharisees, you know? He gave grace to those, but He told the woman at the well, go and sin no more.

46:01

Like, Jesus wasn't the hippie, I love everything, everything's okay, don't worry about it,

46:10

God loves you. That's not Jesus. That's good. And you should clip what you just said, because that was excellent. Yeah.

46:15

You should use that for something. It was really excellent, because that's exactly right. And we hear it at the abortion clinic a lot or out in evangelism, it's always, my

46:22

Jesus would never condone what you're doing, or my Jesus would never, you know, scream at a woman, which we don't do at the abortion clinic.

46:32

He would never... My Jesus would be completely fine with abortion. And what we say is your Jesus doesn't exist.

46:38

Doesn't exist. Because what have you done? You've fashioned an idol to suit your life. And that's what the people have always done.

46:44

Remember when Moses came off the mountain, what did they do? They fashioned a golden calf to give them whatever they wanted.

46:50

It's to suit their lifestyle. It's just to use that idol to give them what their flesh wants.

46:55

And that's exactly what men have done. That's what we've done. We fashioned another Jesus that's just completely defined by cultural ideologies or wherever the culture ebbs and flows.

47:07

Now Jesus is gonna, as things progress, he's gonna support homosexuality and with the

47:14

Equality Act on the horizon. So what we need to do is we need to say, no, that's a false

47:20

Christ who will never save you. And completely unworthy to emulate, completely unworthy to seek and to be influenced by.

47:29

That's important. And like you're saying, we just got to get back to the basics, back to the scriptures, back to who Christ truly is looking to him to be that standard.

47:36

That's right. It's just sometimes it baffles me. In a way, like you said, though, like,

47:43

I think in our last podcast, we were talking about, what's that crazy guy, Kenneth Copeland.

47:49

And you said, the only thing that separates him and I is grace. And so when

47:54

I say they, I mean me before I was saved also, but just women that want this type of man, right, that is like submissive to her or doesn't have a backbone.

48:06

They want abortion. They want to be completely equal. This is a whole nother subject that I'm hoping to get on with two special guests that I don't want to say yet because it's not for sure about feminism and how this has led to the abortion

48:18

Holocaust. But you come back for that and you're like, okay, wait a minute.

48:23

So you want abortion on demand for any reason. You want to be treated completely as the same as a man.

48:30

Of course, men and women are equal as in value, but we have different roles, but okay, you want all this.

48:37

So basically a man could have sex with whoever he wants and have absolutely no responsibility.

48:43

That's what's being promoted. It's crazy. Well, yeah. And that's when we're talking about the effeminacy of manhood, that's it.

48:52

Yeah. Because when you take a man's responsibility away, you take away his manhood because like you define what is the definition of a man?

48:59

It's a man accepts responsibility for his actions. Right. So it's like, okay, so we have a culture that now it's like, there's not even a difference between a man and woman.

49:09

Now men can say that they're a woman and go and sign up for a woman's sports.

49:16

Maybe they're just average in men's sports. So they're like, you know what? I'm a woman now. And they could just annihilate the women and be like top of the game.

49:24

Yeah. So now in this feminist utopia, we've got men that are beating women at every sport or can potentially.

49:33

They don't have to, they can have sex, have no ramifications of it. The woman can then either choose to let her child live and be a single mom or go and murder her child.

49:46

It's just, it's insanity. Yeah. Did you see that clip with, was it Rand Paul who was talking to, oh man,

49:54

I don't know his title, but he's just, you know, uh, I think the leader of, you know, I, I, it's so crudely, but he was just like the director of sports.

50:03

And anyway, he was talking about the transgender issue. And he was saying like, in really just simple terms, like, do you really think it's okay for, you know, a 250 pound, six foot two dude to be boxing a five foot four little tiny woman.

50:20

And the guy's like, well, I think transgender men or transgender woman should be received every single opportunity to do that.

50:27

So with, he was affirming it without affirming it, but he was like saying, are you really telling me that you think it's okay for a six foot four dude to be in the same locker room and changing with the woman?

50:38

And the guy's like, well, I think it's okay for trans. So they do, they want to evade the issue because we know innately that it's not okay.

50:45

These things are wrong. But that, that's what, that's what happens when you take the roles away.

50:51

But here's the thing is the Bible says, God will not be mocked in all of this. So what do you see?

50:56

You see men abdicating their responsibility and women, women trying to take that role.

51:04

So you see men with no guidance, no definition of manhood, no standard, what will they do?

51:10

They'll just sit on their butt and they'll abdicate their role and play video games until they're forties, not hating on video games, but not really doing what

51:17

God has called them to do. And then you see the woman take the role of the man, which she's not, not designed to do.

51:23

And so there's, it just creates a miserable type of home that gives no glory to God. Right. So we need little men to be raised up as biblical men.

51:32

We do. Yeah. And we got to do it. And unfortunately, I think in our generations, um, there wasn't a lot of mentorship.

51:40

I don't know if you kind of received it. I can't say that, no, but especially guys come knock, knock, you know, in the church and even out of the church, it wasn't like intentional, uh, uh, you know, leadership and mentorship where a guy said,

51:52

Hey, I want to mentor you or train you to become a man. We're going to go through the scriptures. We're going to talk about all facets and spend a long time.

51:59

There was not that, but unless we're intentional about it, there's going to be no men made intentional work and training to do that.

52:07

So it's something we got to do. So I appreciate to know in this podcast and I, and I pray

52:12

God blesses it. And the message gets out far and wide. So that was a good episode.

52:19

That was great. I'd love to have any on. And, um, like I said, you just talked about integrity with Dawn.

52:25

If you guys can, uh, hear me as we're wrapping up this episode, I think irregular for Christ and you going there and supporting, um, dusty and his wife is a good choice because you got a couple who have integrity.

52:38

Right. You know, I see this guy a lot. And we probably see ourselves on a normal week, three or four times a week. And you're in here and learning and just being a servant.

52:47

And I can tell you, he is a man of integrity that he takes it seriously that you just burn the midnight oil.

52:52

You just kind of turn off that brain in years in your head. No, but I appreciate it. And I think what

52:58

I'm trying to say is it's a good ministry for you guys to support. And I hope that you do that. So I hope you were blessed this episode, be praying for our debate.

53:07

Um, next a couple of weeks, it's going to happen. Who knows? Well, we never know what we're getting into, but we're going to share the gospel with him regardless.

53:14

And if you're a flat earther out there and you'd like to come on a show and you know, we're not going to attack you where we're commanded to love you and to treat you with kindness.

53:23

Oh, also, uh, a Christian that voted for Biden. We'd love to talk to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

53:28

If you're Christian and you're professing Christ, you voted for Biden or you're Christian and you, um, professing

53:35

Christ and you're pro -choice, we'd like to talk about the issues and, uh, help you change your mind.

53:40

Right. So thanks for tuning in guys. We love you. We thank you for supporting this and we will see you next time. Bye. Thank you.