October 11, 2017 Show with David Wiedis AND Jim Rhodes on “Growing in Ministry: Leading Courageously & Transitioning Well”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida. And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming and iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arndt and your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday this 11th day of October 2017.

Well, I'm delighted to have on the program Two men who have never been on iron sharpens iron radio before. We have David Weedus a Jewish believer in Christ Jesus committed to reform theology and he's the executive director of serving leaders ministries and Joining him is Jim Rhodes a missionary veteran with over 40 years experience on the mission field and they are both going to be discussing Growing in ministry leading courageously and transitioning well.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome both David Weedus and Jim Rhodes to iron sharpens iron radio for the very first time. Greetings gentlemen.

Great.

Great. And just to let you know that you too can speak up whenever you Have something that you'd like to say you don't have to wait for me to call on you. This is always a little bit more difficult when you have two people on the phone.

And it would be a good idea if every time you said something you identified yourself your voices sound pretty much the same to me.

So.

First of all before I get your personal testimonies because we usually like to Start our program when we have new people that have never been on before. We'd like to have them give an abbreviated version of their testimony of how they came to saving faith in Christ.

But before we do that.

David tell us something about serving leaders. Ministries history that is designed and created to come alongside ministry leaders and Deacons elders missionaries anybody who is strategic in the church.

And it was formed. I actually we're celebrating our 10th year anniversary now and Really what we do is we provide counseling for pastors and ministry leaders. We also do some ministry coaching. We do a lot of training and seminars.

We help pastors go on retreats. Sometimes we will lead retreats, but we also have our people have fallen on retreat and or vacations. So basically the idea is because so many people in their strategic We thought I thought to myself who serves those who serves so that.

That's how that well sounds like a great organization.

In fact, I don't know if you're going to be available on Thursday October 26th, but if you are I'm having a pastor's luncheon here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. About a hundred pastors are expected to be there and the featured speaker is bill shishkoe of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Franklin Square New York who is now regional home missionary for the Reformation Metro, New York, which is a organization sponsored by the Orthodox Presbyterian denomination.

And I would love to have you out there if you're able to. I don't know you. I know you don't don't have to make a decision right now, but it would be great for you to get up for five minutes before bill speaks and Give a presentation and have your material on hand at the pastor's luncheon.

I'm right here in Pennsylvania. So I know that you are too and that's. I don't know how far away you are from Carlisle, but We would love to have you out there if you're able to make it.

Now you happen to be just. I mean, it's only about an hour and a half or so away. Yeah, great.

Well.

If you can make it I'd love to have you there and you can bring as much as your Material and if you have a banner or anything, we would love to have you hang it up. And you could speak before our keynote speaker.

We're also having the State representative of Pennsylvania Steve Bloom who's running for Congress. He's going to be saying a few words. He's our guest of honor that day and Steve is a very strong Christian outspoken Christian unashamed of his faith.

It's always great to meet somebody like him who isn't just pandering to a specific Special interest group or lobby. He really means what he Says and he brings his faith Very much Into the forefront of his political career, so it's always great to Be a part of anything that Steve is a part of.

And before I have you give your testimony I completely forgot to introduce you to my co-host in the studio Reverend buzz Taylor.

Yeah, he told you guys to speak up and he won't let me do that. That's gonna be on the show with you. Thanks for joining us and.

And So.

David you are a Jewish believer and one of the things that I always find fascinating is When I meet somebody who is a Jewish believer who is in love with the Reformed faith and intricately a part of that.

Committed to it even in spite of some slanderous things that have been said about the Reformed faith by our.

Misinformed.

Brothers in Christ who happen to be From a more dispensational or messianic backgrounds, and I know that not all of them do this either. I don't want to broad brush them. But it's good to see somebody who Still is following their convictions from the scriptures.

Tell us about your testimony and how. What kind of a religious atmosphere you were raised in. Because just because you're Jewish doesn't mean that Not all Jewish people have a cookie-cutter story about how they came to embrace Christ.

But and also tell us about how you came to understand and embrace Reformed theology as well.

Sure, I grew up in a Jewish as more chicken soup Jew rather than very religious. My grandfather emigrated over here from Lithuania many many years ago wanting to know who God was and I really wasn't taught Very much in my family about God, but I intuitively Internally just long to know God.

One of my earliest memories as a matter of fact Chris was that I was about three years old. I walked outside and that was in the day when planes actually wrote in the sky. So I saw smoke in the sky. And I thought God was writing to me, but the problem was I didn't know how to read.

You know come and tell me what God's saying and she came out there and at that point the smoke had dissipated. And I remember just being crushed because I wanted to know who God was I was in. I was actually in high school meeting house in Freehold, New Jersey, which is where the communion is.

Well, yes, the Battle of Mammoth took place and Molly Pitcher was so it was very historic place as I understand it. Part of the Great Awakening took place in that area the graveyard and I picked it up and I walked out of the graveyard.

And I prayed this prayer now this sounds like an evangelical prayer, but I had never even heard this kind of prayer before. But here's what I did. I said God Whoever you are. I want to know who you are.

And if you'll show me who you are if you reveal yourself to me I will give you my life and live my life for you inside the meeting house the church and All I can tell you is what I experienced and at the time I experienced this Tremendous heat come over my body and tremendous peace.

Now I didn't know but you know, what happened was God came came to me Gave me tremendous heat and peace and I just was transfixed for about 20 minutes. I Went home that day. Nobody was at my house. People came to the door.

They were proselytizing asking me about Christ and I basically said look I'm a Jew my parents would kill me if I converted no Thank you, and I sent them away and then that evening before but had never shared the gospel with me.

Basically said and as he was speaking the same experience happened a guy it was just impressed with his heat and peace and As I heard the gospel, I responded to it and I gave my life to Christ at that point praise God and.

How did you eventually come to discover and embrace the reformed faith?

I went to a Southern Baptist Church. I Then later went to a Methodist who was in various stream friend of mine introduced me to ref from Reformation theology and Started to make sense to me and then I actually had to admit a positional apologetics and then I ultimately I joined a PCA Church and and for for about 12 years was a PCA elder a ruling elder in a Presbyterian Church.

Wow.

Well, you've certainly got my co-hosts attention Reverend Buzz Taylor because one of his greatest heroes of all time is Greg Bonson. Yeah, and I'm in a PCA Church also.

And and not only that Chris I think you've got. At least let him know that if we look out the window where we are sitting right now we can see Molly pitchers grave.

What does that have to do with anything was mentioning her earlier? Oh, I don't know. Somehow I must have gotten distracted in here in Molly pitcher. Yeah. Yes, Molly pitchers grave. Or the grave of the woman that the community dubbed as Molly pitcher.

His is probably I don't know. What do you say 300 yards from where I'm sitting? Right here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. And. Yeah, and. Well, yeah, and I had the privilege by the way of meeting Greg Bonson as well when he was preaching in Brooklyn at a Bible conference and one of the things that I still kick myself over to this very day.

Is that the pastor? Hosting the conference gave me the opportunity to interview Greg Bonson in his study for probably a half hour. I recorded it and I lost the tape and Dr. Bonson went home to be with the Lord a few years after that and so I never had my opportunity to Find that and air that interview.

I always wanted to air that interview, but We also have as I announced earlier on the program Jim Rhodes, why don't you give us your personal testimony of salvation how you came about providentially to embrace the Lord Jesus Christ and What kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in if any and etc and how you had a burden to eventually become a missionary.

Change that was happening in our country at that time one of the driving things as a young man in my life was to see it become significant and you know, I thought that the way that that would happen was through becoming successful, you know gaining the American dream and and as much as a high school student can gain those things as a high school student in the 1960s are black and white television set up.

My family grew up as little churchgoers and As a family and the only exposure we seem to know and follow the people I saw on TV on the Billy Graham crusade and When I was 16, I had the opportunity to attend one of those that I knew at that time to Graham use on TV and so one of the scriptures that that Went through my mind as I went to and that Jesus ever called he called pop don't be ashamed of me if I won't be if I and and.

So when the invitation was given that night and I stand victim me and Significances to come down and and that night no, but but I just didn't want to be first and no one went down. And the music, you know, just as I evangelist that night looked up into the stands.

I believe that there's one person I'm gonna sing one more song for you. And I just want you to know that you don't belong to the enemy anymore. You belong to whoever you are you get up and come my older, you know, I don't and was like the ones I and Platform getting ready to speak with and just telling him that he'd revealed himself and that he was worthy of my trust in him and young man on the platform that night was involved at the University of Maryland and he got me involved in the Circumstances to meet.

Dr. Bill Bright. He challenged me to join the staff. Praise God and.

Before we forget that I will Try to remember to announce these special events that you guys are having in the near future, but I know that You're going to be having an event. Actually two events here in Pennsylvania one at the United Reformed Church Classes meeting at the Carbondale United Reformed Church Here in Carbondale, Pennsylvania and then in on November 4th, you're going to be Speaking at the Providence Presbyterian Church in York, Pennsylvania but aren't you also going to be speaking at my friend drew and again Berg's Congregation there at the West Sable Reformed Bible Church in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island.

Okay, I guess it was drew that told me about it and I assumed it was going to be happening at his congregation. So tell us about the excuse me.

You know that's happened to us before.

No, I think it was. Probably he was just telling me about this event the.

The.

Classes meeting that you are going to be having. Tell us about what you are going to be speaking about there. And is this open for the public or is this just for the United Reformed Church of North America pastors?

It's every few months we get together. We get a bunch of pastors together trying to shepherd pastor's hearts and last year I thought it would be great to get Jim involved and to share some of the wisdom that he has in terms of leadership and.

And navigating through transitions because every every pastor From the time they start to the time they retire is going through transition and really has to navigate transitions with a lot of wisdom and.

There's challenges. There's landmines along the way they have the potential to sabotage. There's and so I thought I thought I would interview Jim on on the wisdom that he has and so that's how that started and then.

So most of that our presentation is going to be me interviewing Jim on some of these topics and then I'm going to be speaking. Also, Jim's going to we're going to turn the tables and Jim's going to interview me on avoiding pastoral blank burnout and flameout.

Which is my word for for moral failure, but everybody I think knows what burnout is. And so that's sort of the. That's the the agenda.

That's going to be held at the Covenant United Reformed Church in Carbondale, Pennsylvania. Is that right?

That's next Tuesday, October 17th between 1 and 5 p .m. So it's gonna it's really going to be viewing him. He'll be interviewing me and then we break up. We have five topics. We break them up with with each each time.

We're going to where people will really interact with the material rather than being lectured at with you know. With a fire hydrant the issues and then we do Q &A and just really learn, you know. Based on the wisdom that that churches the pastors.

This is long before the days of cell phones and he was not allowed to share any of what he was. He had amazing ministry there and then in Egypt and then as oh, yeah, in fact.

Yeah, in fact, I've got to eventually put you in touch with a member of my own congregation David Glantz retired United States Army Colonel David client glance who is one of the foremost experts on the Soviet Union and Russia in the United States, he's written dozens of books on Russia and the Soviet Union and.

Has.

Has a taught at the United States Army War College and so on. He's a really fascinating Gentleman who is an usher at the congregation where I'm a member and it was a really fascinating Discussion that we had an iron Sherpins iron radio.

But before I get into some of that with you Jim, I just want to make sure that I give our listeners the contact information. For the Covenant Reformed Church in Carbondale, Pennsylvania, the phone number is 5 7 0 2 8 2 6400 and once again, that's area code 5 7 0 2 8 2 6400.

The website for the Covenant Reformed Church of Carbondale, Pennsylvania. Is and I have to enlarge it because I am at 55 years of age going rapidly blind. It's covenant RC org covenant RC. But tell us some of that expand upon what David just told us Jim.

During that cloud to help reach a people for cry before he shared with us who those people were except that they weren't the American people and. So we began a prayerful search like Lord. Who are these people that you want us?

You help the gospel of your kingdom. And shortly after we began praying had a gentleman showed up at our church and He was Sharing about how he was doing a ministry behind the Iron Curtain going from underground location.

Underground location. Providing seminary training for pastors behind the Iron Curtain. Couldn't do that, but I could do evangelism and discipleship training and. And and I prayed about in a couple months later that was beginning a ministry of evangelism and discipleship behind the Iron Curtain that ground and and we travel traveling on a circuit among the major cities of the Soviet Union looking to open up campus works and reach young people for Christ and.

It was amazing. And one of the things that I learned from that whole it's pray that God would open it to appear to be closed. We serve the one who can. What we saw happen and I was there and In in Czechoslovakia, it was never reported.

They fell. Because they were opposed to the progress of the gospel among on the king of all kings. In fact, very few Americans know that there was this happened. On December 25th 1991 the Soviet Union died.

Wow.

And I know that you are not the scheduled speakers at the other event in November. It's dr. Penny Freeman. But can you tell us something about that event? The theme is voices helping survivors of abuse find their voice at the Providence Presbyterian Church in York, Pennsylvania.

Well, if anybody wants to attend that a meeting that's November 4th At the Providence Presbyterian Church in York, Pennsylvania, you can call them at 7 1 7 7 6 7 4 7 7 2 7 1 7 7 6 7 4 7 7 2 or you go to their website, which is York PCA org York PCA org and of course the website again for servant leaders or serving leaders I should say serving leaders ministries is serving leaders org serving leaders org.

So.

Give us some different scenarios. In fact, we'll have you do this when we come back for the break. We have to because we have to go to our first break right now, but when we come back give us a certain scenarios of Specific things that you have already helped local churches with and Things that you can do to help the local church be a more vibrant lighthouse not only for reaching the lost and not only for further equipping the Saints, but also Obviously bringing praise honor and glory to God first and foremost.

But when we come back we will have you go through some of that and so our listeners have more of a grasp on Serving leaders ministries, and if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris.

Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. And please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter.

That's chris arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. God willing we will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on WLIE radio www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.

Our time will be lively Useful and I assure you never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because.

Everyone needs a pass and that was the voice of the aforementioned Bill Shishko of Reformation Metro, New York who is the keynote speaker at the iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon coming up on Thursday?

October 26th 11 a .m. To 2 p .m. At the Carlisle fire-and-rescue Banquet Hall in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's absolutely free of charge. And not only are you going to be fed for free? Physically and spiritually and have a great time of fun and fellowship with fellow men in the ministry.

But if you attend you'll also be leaving with a very heavy sack of brand new books that have been donated By major publishers all over the United States and the United Kingdom. Each man will probably wind up leaving with at least a couple of dozen books and these are brand new books.

Each publisher donates a hundred copies of a title that I select so every man attending can have each of those copies of those titles and we have quite a number of Publishers donating those books to us.

So every year it's quite a treat for those attending and there's no hidden agenda. There's nothing that there's nothing at all for sale there and if you'd like to Register for this you have to be a man in ministry and you could be a pastor or an elder which I happen to believe.

Are the same office and you can be a deacon you can be a parachurch leader. Whatever kind of ministry that you are involved in as long as you are a man in ministry. You are welcome to this Free event.

It's just send me an email to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and put Pastors luncheon in the subject line our guest of honor that day will be Steve Bloom Pennsylvania State Representative who's also running for Congress and a very powerful Christian brother in Christ who is dedicated to the truths of the scriptures and has an unwavering commitment to them and now we are back to our discussion with David Wetus of Serving leaders ministries and also Jim Rhodes who is a veteran missionary with over 40 years of experience in the mission field.

We are discussing growing in ministry. Leading courageously and transitioning. Well, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris.

A-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com and please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence. So tell me Dave. Let's let's have more of a breakdown a bit more detailed.

Understanding of exactly how you go about helping churches. What how specifically do you get to even know who these churches are? They typically reaching out to you and and how are they hearing about you and etc.

Counselors and basically what what happens is we have pastors missionaries do marriage count master may come in and That you're professional. Basically, we're working with people who have been in in various situations.

So we provide personal counseling for them. We have people who've had missionaries who've been through trauma overseas. We have missionaries who come in from furlough we debrief them. We'll work with people with all kinds of problems and including family problems within a family.

So we do some marriage and family as well you name it and Someone's calling us to anything that I get is phone calls from ministry leaders who are burned out or experiencing burnout physical emotional exhaustion.

And try to help them Work through that either heal from it or we do a lot of coaching to prevent it. In the past three weeks. I've done three seminars and this Friday. I'm doing a fourth on avoiding pastoral flameout and burnout.

Pastors are perfectionistic really hard and Many don't know when to stop many don't have many don't have the proper balance in their lives. And so they can instead of being good stewards of the ministry.

God's given them. They can just sort of squander it by Going to 80 hours a week a non-stop. No vacation. No rest. No balance. And so that that's the counseling piece for example Avoiding sexual misconduct in ministry legal and ethical issues in counseling and pastoral counseling.

I'm also an attorney As well, and so I've got a legal background have his etiology of same-sex attraction and homosexuality. And so I've tried to do a very in-depth seminar on causes of homosexuality and the church a very cogent intelligent biblical response and loving response to the issues That people struggle with so we do a lot of seminars as well and then another Service that we offer to churches is mediation.

Some as you know, there's lots of conflict within the church within church officers and things like that. They are called to do mediation between people just just to help You to either carry out Matthew 18 Avoiding past pastors get heavy heavy-handed and you've seen that and oh never in the reformed Baptist community.

I'm just kidding.

See that, you know you get you jump in here because I mean I could go on and on but essentially we're trying to provide A very safe place the issues marriage issues. And so oftentimes when pastors experience that instead of getting help and then medicating their issues.

And that's where they get in trouble and filling with an issue getting getting the appropriate help. There's so much pressure and I and you guys know that if you if you dare to reveal to some congregations or some elders a Problem you're facing, you know, you know, you may get fired or judged as opposed to getting help.

By the way, the.

Yeah, go ahead Jim.

That's actually how Dave and I met because I was serving as a as a mission hundreds of missionaries out on you know missionaries and David I met. Because I died as a missions leader and I needed I needed help from someone who could help me help my missionaries.

Dave mentioned and and and somewhat isolated and And so I began referring and they would come back and tell me. Oh Jim. Thank you so much Dave was so helpful. He helped me to walk out of and and and Dave and I were attending and we got and we were going around with each other around the table and Dave Introduced himself said I'm and we knew each other from the people that I had referred him to him but and.

Helping those and more importantly to finish well.

Great, and by the way in case you're wondering why I made that reform Baptist joke I don't know if you two knew I am a reform Baptist. I just want to make that clear. You know, we when you make fun of your own people, that's that's okay.

But anyway. My co-host Reverend Buzz Taylor has a couple words that caught my attention.

What did you mean by debriefing?

Missionaries you go ahead. You start and I'll fill in practical issues to two complex issues of coming back readjusting. Never feeling like you have a home because you've adapted to the foreign country.

But now you come back people have changed. Life has gone on a number of missionaries been shot or getting ready to go on the mission field. I have found a woeful inadequacy for example to go into sexual Trafficking ministry without being adequately prepared.

Guess what? You're going to be falling into for pretty. We've seen that but Jim is tons of experience.

He's Jim has overseen. Come along and help. One of the other things that we actually on the field.

I've been on the phone with somebody who's established an orphanage. For example, you know, Uganda for for example, and. They need some counseling and there's no one that they can go to. They're in a in a different country different culture and.

And and that's you know, multiply that by when you think about it. It's not unlike thinking about one of the Apollo period of preparation and then there's a need to bring in fact.

I wanted to ask you something about that when we return. We have to go to our midway break right now. I'll ask the question to start with and you could think about it and respond when we get back.

But.

For some reason I immediately started to think about police officers police officers who very often are dealing on a daily basis with people that are liars people that are dangerous and all those kinds of the worst elements of behavior that you can think of and They they come to develop, but of course I'm not broad brushing and I've the reason why I know this is a phenomenon is because police officers have told me this.

That many police officers develop a distrust for everyone. I mean they develop a distrust for their spouses and and Their neighbors they are ready to think the worst of them. And of course, like I'm saying, I'm not broad brushing.

But this is a phenomenon that does exist and I'm wondering if this could be a reality amongst missionaries who may be in certain areas of the globe where where the the people surrounding them are using them just to get financial and physical help from these Missionaries and they may often lie to them.

They may often steal from them. They may have a zero interest in spiritual matters, but are just faking Conversions and so on and so the missionaries may wind up. Feeling that way in regard to everyone around them as well.

But I'll have you answer that when we come back from the break. If anybody else would like to join us We do have several people waiting to have their questions asked and answered. But if anybody else would like to get online our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. God willing. We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors. Iron sharpens iron welcomes solid rock remodeling to our family of sponsors. Serving South Central, Pennsylvania Solid rock remodeling is focused on discovering Understanding and exceeding your expectations.