Ep. 4: How Should You Find a Good Church? | Ok, I'm Christian Now What?

Wise Disciple

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Church, what does church look like that is a question that a lot of Christians struggle with whether you're a new

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Christian or you're An old Christian, but there's all these different denominations Do I go to a Baptist Church a

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Lutheran Church? Like how do I how do I decipher all of this? How do you approach the structure of leadership?

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Is it there's one guy at the top and then everyone sort of falls under his leadership

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And if we lose any part of that then we've lost part of what the scriptures describe as church discipline

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You know, we were in the same room people would come back in and they were crying saying

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I had no idea apart from the grace of God Any of us could be in a similar situation.

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All it takes is one moment one Unguarded moment of weakness. I would say those pieces are

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Non -negotiables. So then the question would be do you stay or do you leave? Well, if those pieces are there

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I would think a whole lot more about leaving Welcome to another episode of okay.

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I'm Christian now what if you are a brand new Christian And you just got saved and you don't know what the next steps are then this podcast is for you

01:18

We're so glad that you're with us But wait a second if you are a Christian you've been a Christian for a little while But you realize that something's missing maybe you need to go back to the basics

01:27

Well, then this show is for you as well My name is Nate Sala with me is pastor

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Chuck Williams of Life Baptist Church and today We're talking all about how to find a good church.

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So let's go. Hey Chuck Hey, what's up, man? How you doing? I'm so glad to see you again.

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It's been a little while and Today we have a special guest So the special guest that we have is somebody who is tremendously important to both you and I write

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Chuck because this man We're gonna talk about him right in front of him while he smiles this man is Actually trained us up to be pastors he trained us to to learn how to do things like Start a church to to handle administrative responsibilities to preach at the pulpit all of that And so we thought what better person to come and join us and talk about how to find a good church

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But our very own pastor Paul got heart of Sherwood Baptist. So Help me in joining pastor

02:24

Paul There we go, there we go, love it. Love it. Love it Paul so for those that are not familiar

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Can you just maybe give us a real quick bio for you where you're at and what God is doing in your life?

02:38

Yeah, here's quick one, man I've been a follower of Christ now for about 28 years

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I've been a pastor for 24 and a half of those years married for 27 years to college -age daughters and we met the three of us in Las Vegas at Life Baptist Church.

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It was a church that God called us to plant back in 2003 God blessed us to be able to serve there for 18 years and We thought we were gonna spend the rest of our life there love the church love the people love the city everything about it and God had a completely different plan that shocked us as well as many other people and that is he called us to serve at Sherwood Church in Albany, Georgia and It's a church is probably most well known for the movies that have come out of this church with fireproof facing the

03:29

Giants Courageous war rooms some of the other ones like that. But anyway, we absolutely love serving here.

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It's an incredible church Looking forward to what God is going to do, but it's also fantastic to be friends here today

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So thank you guys for having me on man. We're so glad that you're here Paul now Notice a an accent.

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So how did you get that southern accent so quickly from moving out of Las Vegas? And this southern accent came back

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I'm originally from Savannah, Georgia. So anyway when we went to Las Vegas I always would joke around because people look like they were listening intently to every word

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I was saying in a message and only found out afterwards. They couldn't understand anything. I was saying because my accent was so so after 18 years

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Now I come back and people hear they're like you don't sound southern and Then I talked to people in Vegas and they're like man, you don't sound like you're from the

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West Coast anymore So anyway, I don't know where I fit but I am a southern guy and I apparently happen to be back in the south

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I love it. I love your man out of time and and apparently geography, but no, this is great because In our time

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Chuck at life we spent some time developing something and this was your brainchild pastor

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Paul But it was something called starting point and I I hope you're okay with this

04:53

But we totally stole that idea and that's what essentially is the basis for this podcast so but but one of the aspects of that is

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Church, what does church look like and that is a question that a lot of Christians struggle with whether you're a new

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Christian or Christian so if this is okay pastor Paul We're just gonna throw some questions at you and just see what you think and hopefully all come to a clear biblical answer about these

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Things but Chuck Why don't you go ahead and start us off? Yeah, no, that's

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Paul. We're grateful to have you here on this podcast and just your wisdom I think it's gonna benefit all of the the people that are listening from this

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So the first question I want to get into is probably one I think it's probably the most important because when

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Christians, you know Come to fit or when people come to faith and they become Christians One of the biggest things that we encourage them and to do is to get plugged into a church to get involved to you know

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Be a part of a local church, but why is that even important in the first place? Man it's a great question and let me just say that COVID for two and a half years

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Exposed the fact that the local church has done a really bad job of helping people understand why the local church is

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Important and why they need to be engaged. So the first thing I would just say is God has made

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Humanity as relational beings and as relational beings we need to be in community with others

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So there's a part of that that just comes into God's created design But I would also say that there's at least four just strong pieces as to why?

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People being involved in a local church is so important One of the things I would share all the time is there is a part of your spiritual development in Christ that only happens in community with other believers

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That is we need each other in the process of growth. There is an iron sharpening iron piece that is involved there

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Something else I would say it would be watching services online does not allow you to be known by others

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So it's great. I have no problem with people watching additional messages

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And and checking things out and for that matter I think it's also great when it comes to people who are traveling or they're sick or they're not able to be involved in church on that particular

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Sunday, but as far as Supplementing is one thing taking the place of being in person and attendance is something else

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So when somebody is watching online People don't know them. They don't know when they're hurting.

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They don't know when they're struggling They don't know how to come alongside of them and encourage and edify and and build up So you miss that aspect a third piece.

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I would say is being involved in a local church. It's an obedience issue Hebrews chapter 10 verse 25 very clearly says let us not neglect meeting together as is the habit of some

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Apparently even 2 ,000 years ago. It was a habit of some not to get together in community, but it's important We find

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Acts chapter 2. It's a clear example of the importance of Believers being together or serving each other caring for each other

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And then the final thing I would say is biblical community provides a greater level of strength encouragement stability for that person for their family for their home a greater sense of community of sharing of Being able to serve and to not have a consumer mentality

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It's serving is also about using the gifts that God has given you coming alongside of other believers living on mission with God and engaging

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God's kingdom activity around the world and the greatest place that a believer can do that with Regularity is going to be within the local church no, that's that's really good and Because this digital age that we live in is just it makes things more convenient for people

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And do you think it's possible for those elements to happen like online if someone is trying to consistently

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Be involved in the church through social media through zoom calls through, you know

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Just different breakout groups But in a in a social media or digital aspect like could could they still same?

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Could they still have those same benefits of a person that is meeting in person through the means of digital?

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No, like there's certain things that yeah, I mean, that's the that's the short answer is no

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There are certain things that without a doubt like you can you can watch preaching online

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You can watch it on TV. You can listen to podcast so you can hear the proclamation of God's Word But I'll tell you when people came back into in -person gatherings in churches

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You know, we were in the same room people would come back in and they were crying saying

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I had no idea How much I missed being in person until I was back in the room.

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There's something about Being in the community and you're not just sitting, you know

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In your jammies on a couch like sipping coffee and you know playing on your phone while watching a service

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You're there there was an intentional effort to get in and when somebody does that You're seeing other brothers and sisters in Christ.

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You're watching them worship. You're engaging in conversation You know that you're a part of something.

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That's more Digital it's more than what you see on a flat screen somewhere

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So all I can say is yes, we we kind of live in a live stream culture

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But if you even think back to that Hebrews 10 passage when it says let us not neglect meeting together as is the habit of some

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Apparently even live stream doesn't have anything to do with it Like people will make all sorts of excuses as to why they cannot be there

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The issue is there's a part of our growth in Christ that only happens in biblical community

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So I'm gonna encourage people say read the word Watch other messages to supplement your walk with God, but be engaged in a local community for sure

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No, that's that's so good. And now and I'm grateful that the the main reason behind all this is the scriptures command for us to not neglect the fellowship and we need to you know get together so Because we're drawn from that authority of scripture.

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Is there a format within scripture of the local church? Is there a a design for God's church that we can see within scripture that we can point to and say?

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Okay, this is what it's supposed to look like Man, this this is gonna sound like I'm kind of I don't know giving a sarcastic answer

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But I'm honestly not here God's design for the local church is seen in the

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New Testament That's what I can tell you and I and I mean

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I I know that sounds like it's very broad but the issue is You have to read the

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New Testament to get a full picture of what the New Testament Church is supposed to look like so for example

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Jesus gives the great commandment love the Lord your God all your heart mind soul and strength love he gives the great commandment and the

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Great Commission go and make disciples of all the nations in Matthew 22 as well as in Matthew chapter 28

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Then he tells us in John chapter 13 he tells the disciples that this is how people will know that you're my disciples if you have love one for another

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Well, that's that's a pretty big part of what the New Testament Church is supposed to be

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It's supposed to be a loving community That we are recognized as followers of Christ based upon how we interact with each other

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Then think about what you find over in Acts chapter 2 actually the entire book of Acts if you want to be technical about it

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I mean it describes the coming of the Holy Spirit and the establishment of the church as we know it but in Acts chapter 2

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It gives a beautiful description of what the early first century church looked like and in fact

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Rick Warren, I mean had a fantastic book It's been around probably 30 some years at this point as far as on the purpose driven church and in that he described the five aspects or purposes of the church of fellowship discipleship worship ministry and evangelism

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Now that's found in the book of Acts But then you go into the epistles and you'll find that Paul and Peter and James They all begin to describe.

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This is how you interact together you find it in the epistles it begins to describe early what the the establishment of calling elders into a local church and Establishing leaders and how they interact within the church and how you interact with those outside the church

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So I guess my my point is it's like the picture is found in the New Testament So if you want to have what is the view of the

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New Testament Church God's design just read the New Testament No, that's that's that's great

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Now one of the things that I've learned just being under your your leadership is that even when we're going through Acts There are some things that are prescriptive and there's some things that are descriptive

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How would how would a person that is just reading the book of Acts saying? Okay, this is what the church looked like so now

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I need to go sell all my stuff and give it to everybody like how would they know what is the appropriate things to you know say okay, this is what

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I'm supposed to be doing in the church and this is what I'm not or Yeah, man it and I'm glad you bring that up because the book of Acts is

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The genre is historical narrative It's describing the events that took place with the establishment of the early church and the arrival of the

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Holy Spirit That's that's what the book of Acts is covering. So you don't pull your theology

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From historical narrative you help historical narrative helps you understand what's happening in the moment so probably one of the best ways to define this or to describe it would be if you go back in the

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Old Testament talks about the fact that the children of Israel is They're fleeing the the country of Egypt.

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They come up to the Red Sea God parts the Red Sea Okay, that was a historical moment now if the church were to look at the book of Acts and the book of Exodus in the

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Same way then they're gonna be coming up to a bunch of rivers and I'm gonna be waiting for it to part like that's what it's supposed to look like But that's not how the

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Bible operates right there. So According to what we find this genre is historical narrative and in that it describes what's happening

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So I think the big principle you could take away from the book of Acts when it comes to people selling their possessions and how they were caring for each other is there needs to be a willingness to sacrifice in order to serve others

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That's a basic principle that you can also find throughout your your writings of Jesus the teachings of Jesus You can find it through the epistles.

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So I think that's an important part But we also have to remember there were other people described in the book of Acts with Lydia who was

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Financially well -off and it described the fact that there were people who began meeting in her home

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Well, apparently she still had a home So it wasn't like she sold her home because they were pure people that were still meeting in it

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You you find examples of people still having wealth But they use their resources for the benefit of the body of Christ and I think you can find that Principle throughout the the

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New Testament as well as for the benefit of those outside the church, too Right. No, and I think that's so good because it hits back on your other point

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Like part of your spiritual growth happens in that community to where you're not just benefiting from the community

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But you're also being a part of the benefit for the large portion of the community So Then there are some things that you know

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Christians are to do within their church there There are some some aspects of sacrifice as you said that we're to partake in in being within the local church

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What would you say would be some of those things? I would say you could probably get most of them in under two categories

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I would say there's one that would be engage slash edify and the other would be support

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Slash invest So let's describe both of those categories so engage or edify that is as Believers, we need to be a part of biblical community.

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We need to attend. We need to be involved We need to know people and we need to be known by people

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We need to encourage and edify believers to grow into mature in their walk in Christ that's a part of what every single believer needs to Think about and how they need to approach their time within a local church, but also

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Support and invest. How do you support and invest in your local church? You support and invest financially you support and invest through your prayers through serving through Discovering and utilizing the spiritual gifts that God has already given according to Scripture Those gifts have been given for the purpose of serving others within the body

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Also, you you do this by helping the leadership helping the church

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Engage the mission of God like that's that's just a part of supporting and investing in your individual local church

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No, that's that's really good. So as People are listening to the podcast. They're like, you know what?

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I'm bought in like absolutely. I see this clearly in Scripture I know the the charge that I'm supposed to have if it's part being in the local church serving in local church

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Now there's probably some people that are getting to the point to where it's okay. I'm finding a church But there's all these different denominations

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Like how do I find a good church when there's so many do I go to a Baptist Church a

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Lutheran Church? Like how do I how do I decipher all of this? yeah, so I It's a great question and man

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It was one that you all know because Las Vegas is such a transient city people are in they're out

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That there were so many people who were a part of life and Then God would move them to a different state and I cannot tell you how many times

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I'd get somebody Email me call me text me and say we're here But how in the world do we find a good church?

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and so the first thing I think that you would need to do is go through and have a basic definition of What is a church and I'm just gonna kind of share this a basic definition is a church is a gathering of the

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Saints who regularly come together for encouragement for teaching participation in the sacraments that's baptism in the

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Lord's Supper and Building up one another in the knowledge and the grace of Jesus Christ So they gather together and they enjoy corporate worship and as they scatter they live on mission

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Okay, that's a basic idea of a local New Testament Church Now when it comes to denominations,

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I would say look at denominations from the perspective of it helps you to quickly identify basic beliefs of that group like kind of orthodoxy and orthopraxy basic beliefs and basic behaviors, so I'm I'm personally

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I know it sounds strange. I'm personally not against denominations at all

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Sometimes people kind of make the argument is if there's one church Why why do we have so many different denominations?

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and I think so much of it comes back to the fact that People are unique and like one style of worship for one person that ministers deeply to their soul

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It doesn't minister at all to somebody else. I'm glad we got variety out there.

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The issue comes back to is it Biblically solid are they holding to scriptural authority?

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Are they focused on making much of Jesus? Are they living on mission with God and you can find that type of environment that that local church

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Sometimes in multiple different denominations, so the denomination kind of brings you into a general category

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But even from there you still need to investigate the actual church itself. I'm fascinated

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With this I was waiting for you to clearly name the denominations we should stay far away from and I didn't hear that so Because I'm trying to make sure you have somebody who comes back to your your show this next week, that's right

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That's right. Well again, thank you for for doing this pastor Paul because we were we were really trying to wrestle through like You know, how do we how do we sift through the next question?

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It's such a it's such a daunting question to ask, you know What kind of a church should we go to and let's you know, we recognize that a lot of people are asking that question even post kovat

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People may be stepped away from the church that they called home But when thinking about coming back to a church, they didn't think of the home church that they called home now

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They're looking around and maybe they're still looking around. So Here we are. I want to ask you a question that that actually it's funny

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I asked you this question when we first sat together on the very first meeting Which is fascinating and that's its own story, but it's a question of church leadership

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How does the Church, how should the church leadership be structured?

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Is there a liberty to decide these things or is it extremely rigid as we go to the scripture?

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Yeah, man Short answer on that is There's basic information that you find within the

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New Testament But there is liberty that comes into how that information works its way out

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So for example, you find that there are two key positions that are mentioned

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Specifically through the New Testament it talks about elders and it also talks about deacons and when it comes to elders

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That's more of what you're talking about with the leadership of the church because if it's a biblical Understanding of a deacon a deacon is a servant.

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It's somebody who is caring for needs in fact That entire deacon body was established to make sure that those who are the

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Apostles Could be about the preaching of the word and about prayer So when you see the fact that churches were established in the

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New Testament most of the time the Apostle Paul great church planner He's established him. He would call together.

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He would have them raise up Elders within that church. There was always a plurality of elders that is being mentioned so I think on a very basic level you could say that a

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Prescriptive piece from the New Testament is that there needs to be multiple leaders who are helping oversee and helping

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I guess govern the affairs of a local church not resting upon one but having a

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Multiplicity of leaders involved now whether or not that church is Congregational rule whether or not they are

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Elder led whether or not it's a pastor let like all of those things it kind of fits into the denomination and into the local church itself but basically speaking there is liberty in this as long as Jesus is the head as long as there's biblical rule in place and Scripture has qualifications for both elders as well as beacons that's mentioned and From that as long as things are done in an orderly way.

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It seems like there's a lot of freedom there. Mm -hmm You know, maybe you can talk about this

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From a more personal angle. I mean, this is how you approach because I what I hear you saying is that That there are biblical principles, but there is liberty to Sort of translate what we find in the scripture to the 21st century

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Church So maybe from a personal perspective, like how do you approach the structure of leadership?

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Is it one of? accountability going up to the senior pastor, so in other words the senior pastor also has to answer to a

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Series of brothers that are over him in terms of accountability or is it more? so the way

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I've heard it is like the Moses model or or you know the executive model where There's one guy at the top and then everyone sort of falls under his leadership, what do you how do you approach that?

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Yeah, I will describe it personally and then I'll also just kind of describe a danger there

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Even when it came to us starting the church in Las Vegas It was set up with there being a group of pastors together

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So there our pastors were also that group of elders. So there was a Multiplicity of elders that were involved so there wasn't decisions that were made that was just me making a decision and it would just happen if there was a

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Decision that was being made it would be one that We would talk about as an elder body and I feel like my role in that was to help lead the conversation

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I feel like as the church planter as the senior pastor. My role was that of to Be the visionary to say this is what

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I sense God doing. Let's talk about it Let's pray about it. And if we're in agreement together, we would move forward

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There was not a single time that an idea was brought up That we were not on the same page about and I just decided to do it myself.

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I think that's foolishness I I think God has brought Godly leadership around us in order to make sure that there's a check and a balance

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And I should know the fact that in any moment we might we might be missing it

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But he gave us these other brothers in Christ to walk with us through that So I think that that's been my experience where we're at right now

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Once again, there is an an elder body that is is here at Sherwood. There's a group of pastors together

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But they also have another piece here it's a a vision planning team and it's a group that is comprised within the leadership of the the church body the lay leadership and it represents people from multiple different different generations multiple

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Backgrounds coming together to also add counsel in on key major decisions that impact the whole of the church

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And at life we had something similar We had a pastor's council, which was lay leaders coming together so the danger for me and this would be my warning there is

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Any time there is ultimate authority being given to a person there is great potential for that being abused and I think it is

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Only the better part of wisdom that we are all held accountable That somebody's asking us the hard questions that somebody has the opportunity to speak into our lives

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Yeah, that's good That's good. I think that actually leads us to Another question that's related because I think what we're starting to broach the subject of here is perhaps areas of abuse areas where yeah people in authority in church can

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Slip into an abuse of authority So how should a good church handle discipline?

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And let me acknowledge that Behind that question. I I just think of so many stories Headlines in the news that have come out

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Where we've seen the church not handle discipline very well. So from your perspective, how should a good church handle that?

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Yeah one scripture has Incredible clarity on this so I'm just gonna throw out like the actual book in a chapter because I think all of these help people frame out a

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Biblical understanding of what it looks like for a church to be involved in church discipline. So Matthew 18 speaks of it

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Titus 3 first Corinthians 5 Galatians 6 2nd

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Thessalonians 3 2nd Corinthians 2 1st Corinthians 5

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Romans chapter 16 1st Timothy 5 like literally there's all of these passages

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That help us understand what it looks like for there to be Accountability and discipline that happens within the body.

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So here's a basic understanding though of church discipline And if we miss the definition

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Then we immediately begin to go off on a bad tangent Okay, so church discipline is the process of correcting sinful behavior among members of a local church body for the purpose of protecting the church

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Restoring the sinner to right relationship with God and renewing fellowship among church members

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That's the basic understanding of church discipline. So you got three parts of that. It's protecting the body

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It's restoring the person who is caught in sin and it's renewing fellowship among church members

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And if we lose any part of that then we've lost part of what the scriptures describe as church discipline

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Yeah, I wonder if we should just press in a little bit further on this because I just again trying to anticipate where Some of our listeners and the viewers on the channel are when they're hearing this maybe they're either seeing somebody they know go through something like discipline or they're going through it themselves like I'm sure what they're wondering is like how can

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I determine whether or not what I'm seeing right now is good or not and so could we press into maybe the

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Restoration aspect of it and the renewal aspect of it. Like what does that look like a little bit more maybe concretely?

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Yeah one of the things that I would I Guess maybe encourage people to consider as they're trying to gain perspective is

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There are certain things that the bulk of the people within the church will not know and There's a good reason for that and sometimes that makes people afraid

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We like to know things but most of time it's out of morbid curiosity. It's not redemptive necessarily

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It's just like hey, I want to know how bad the person was like I heard this was going on But here's the thing if if it was us if we were the ones going through church discipline at that time

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We would not want every part of our life to be aired out before others

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So there's been a principle that's been around for a number of years and that is you try to keep the scope of those

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Involved to the level or the scope of what the offense was So if it's a handful of people maybe four or five people that are together there was some misunderstanding

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You don't go through and immediately broadcast everything out to the entire church body. You try to solve it within that group

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Those are the ones that are involved So there is that principle of coming in going one -on -one

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Trying to resolve it there if that doesn't do it take two or three witnesses with you Try to resolve it there if that doesn't do it you go back and you bring the person before the church

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A lot of times Even if it's not followed that progression people just still want the information and the issue is

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That's where you have to trust the leadership of the church And if you don't trust the leadership of the church, maybe that's one of those moments that you say

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Maybe this isn't the church for me But you would have to trust the leadership in the church that sometimes you paint with broad strokes to protect

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Not only the people involved but sometimes the children involved let's say there's an affair that's happened and If all of the details of an affair are given out that now impacts the children that might be a part of this and the other piece is everyone within the local church is not usually going to be a part of the restoration process and The problem is once there's images that are locked into people's mind if they have not been a part of the process of seeing

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God work in that person's life and God restore and bring repentance and reconciliation and they just kind of they hear on one part

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Here's everything that happened and then all of a sudden somebody comes up and they say and God has restored them

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They weren't on the entire journey. The issue is they will treat that person differently now so there's times that you go through and you simply say

34:07

Our hearts are burdened in that case there has been infidelity that has happened and we're gonna ask that you pray for us as we walk with this couple through the process and Pray for this couple that God brings reconciliation and just if you would just leave it there just be in prayer

34:26

Okay, you don't need to go into the person's name and all of the different details that are that's that's irrelevant at this moment none of that helps us pray more specifically, so Keeping the offense and the people who are involved at a pretty close group.

34:44

I think is important Making sure that the person understands church discipline is not just pointing out everything you did wrong

34:52

But at the same time recognizing apart from the grace of God any of us could be in a similar situation

34:59

All it takes is one moment one Unguarded moment of weakness and we can do things that we never dreamed possible

35:07

Yeah Yeah, I hear you So we're Probably already starting to answer the next question, which is you know, how can someone know?

35:19

So let's say they're at a church Trying it out. Hey, it sounds so consumeristic

35:25

There but they're at a church for a few months, you know trying to see how it plays out and whether it's biblical

35:31

How can they know whether to stay or to leave and I suppose an aspect of that answer?

35:37

Maybe you've already you've already given which is Do you trust the leadership or not? but you know, what are some of the other ways to Answer this question about whether to stay or to leave

35:51

Yeah, so I think let's kind of combine some ideas for just a moment Let's talk also about some non

35:58

Negotiables within the church because if you're if you're wondering do I stay or do I go you need to know?

36:04

What are the things that that have to be in there in order for you to stay?

36:09

So I would give some non negotiables as being that the church holds to scriptural authority that is that scripture is is

36:19

What God has provided so that we understand everything in reference to life and godliness

36:26

Scripture is inerrant. It is inspired. It is infallible. It is God's Word That idea of taking everything that a church does and going back and saying is it in the word?

36:38

Holding to scriptural authority. Is that the ultimate authority or is it maybe to a denomination or is it to?

36:46

Church tradition or something like that Scriptural authority has to be there Another non -negotiable is are they focused on the mission of God?

36:57

If we're called to make disciples who know Christ and make him known to be about the work of the kingdom

37:03

If a church is not engaged in the mission of God, then kind of what are we doing so to speak?

37:11

Another one would be teaching as well as living out a kingdom mentality

37:17

A statement that you've heard me make many times. It's not about our church It's about his kingdom if we make it all about our individual local church

37:27

That's kind of like the it's us four and no more, you know close the windows and lock the doors

37:32

It's like we're gonna sit here and we're just gonna hang out as a group But God has called us to engage culture.

37:39

He's called us to engage our cities He's called us to engage the nations and a part of how we do that is an understanding of the kingdom of God Which kind of leads in the next one is the church engaging their city

37:52

Like if that if that church closed down right now Would anybody in the city who doesn't go to the church even care?

37:59

Would there be a dent would there be a hole in the in that city and then the other one

38:05

I would say is does the church understand and Constantly preach a clear message of the gospel of Jesus Christ If they don't understand the gospel

38:18

Then they're gonna be in trouble because we as you heard me say many times we never outgrow the gospel

38:24

We grow into the gospel So if that's not there if there's not a gospel understanding then we've missed it because that's what's necessary for salvation

38:34

That's what's necessary for sanctification. It's not just the good news. It saves. It's the good news

38:40

It's sanctifies. So I would say those pieces are Non -negotiables when it comes to a local church.

38:47

So then the question would be do you stay or do you leave? Well, if those pieces are there

38:53

I would think a whole lot more about leaving If those pieces are not there, then

38:59

I would immediately start looking to find where is that local church? So and let me throw this out because this isn't in the non -negotiables, but it's just it's human nature if you go to a church and it might have all of those things and yet The worship setting the the people it's it's just not you that there's like a

39:22

Disconnect that you don't feel comfortable in that environment That's okay like it's okay to continue to look because God has made all of us different and if If you're just like sucking it up every week because you're like, well, they're biblical.

39:39

They understand the gospel So I guess I'm stuck here until Jesus comes like that's a horrible way to be engaged in a local community

39:46

You you want to be at a place? that whenever a friend asks you you're like man,

39:53

I got to tell you about my church and you're Excited to be able to if you're not excited to be able to invite your friends or co -workers or neighbors

40:02

That should probably be some type of little like warning sign in your mind. Something might not be right here

40:09

Mm -hmm. Oh that is it's so good and and I want to be gracious of your time but that just led to this last question that I just want to ask because when people are

40:22

Deciphering that it's kind of difficult to parse their personal preferences and then their biblical convictions

40:28

Especially if they found a church that is solid Bible preaching Bible teaching, you know has all the qualities that you mentioned

40:34

But then there's a personal aspect that they just don't you know, like or whatever

40:39

So, how can a person distinguish between those personal preferences and those biblical convictions?

40:47

I? Think biblical convictions have to be found in the word 100 % image if it's not if it's not in the word then you talk in preference at that point

40:56

So to kind of divide the two out Worship style is a preference

41:02

Worshipping and spirit and truth is a non -negotiable The age the style the layout of facilities that's preference

41:14

What you do in those facilities acting like a New Testament Church, that's a non -negotiable preaching style is preference sometimes people are very connected to expository or topical preaching sometimes

41:31

People are like anything more than 30 minutes and I just get lost and other people are like if I don't get at least 50

41:37

Minutes, I feel like I got robbed on Sunday. Those are more preferences But when you talk about preaching the word, is it biblical?

41:46

That's a non -negotiable So you have to kind of work some of those things out.

41:51

Sometimes you'll find people that are they got a hybrid so to speak They they're like I love the worship.

41:58

I love my friends I love you know, the fact that this church is close to my house.

42:04

Oh, man, I get bored to death in the messages Okay, that's that's kind of a sad state of affairs

42:11

But then when you ask like can you find a church that has all of those things? You're like we've been to all these churches and we can't find all of those pieces in one church in that case

42:21

I would say look for the one that you have a connection to community. You can supplement preaching on the outside You can't supplement community in that sense

42:32

It's either you're gonna be walking with believers through life that know you or you're not

42:38

So anyway, I don't know if that helps or not, but that's my thoughts Great. I love

42:44

I mean it just connects to something that personally I've been sensitive to myself and so I think

42:49

I've been vocal about this on the podcast Chuck and and and Paul but And definitely on the

42:56

YouTube channel the wise disciple YouTube channel But my wife and I are considering moving and so it's caused a question

43:02

You know, how do we how do we think about looking for a church? Which by the way is very personal so like we're not just talking about these things in the abstract

43:10

I mean, this is real my wife and I are thinking about this right now but one of the things that I've become very sensitive to is

43:17

Not just being able to check off those boxes But to be able to to check off the boxes in a way that expresses the love of Christ In a very in a highly relational way

43:29

And so, you know, I I'm not sure if how that falls into the area of preference or you know, biblical conviction

43:36

But that's just where we're at. And so I trust that I really appreciate that last answer because yeah

43:41

You can supplement teaching but that relational aspect of fellowship and community That is that is that's fundamental

43:49

So that's right. Yeah. Well, we we thank you so much pastor Paul Chuck, I think we have about 9 ,000 more questions for him.

43:58

So let's uh, maybe Maybe we could maybe we could do this maybe in the future

44:05

We could just have you back and just wrestle through some other issues because you know The Christian life is all about, you know wrestling through what it means to be a follower of Jesus Christ, especially in today's culture

44:16

So we'd love to have you back and talk more In the last 60 seconds or so pastor

44:22

Paul a lot going on maybe some of the listeners are near Leesburg, Albany area

44:28

What is Sherwood up to? What is pastor Paul up to right now? Yeah, so if they happen to be around the area

44:35

I would say check out the church go to Sherwoodbaptist .net If you want to see what's going on Incredible church serving in the community

44:46

Has a Christian school that is a part of it. They have a sports park. That's a part of it They have five pregnancy centers that they're loving on people in the community

44:55

Biblical Counseling Center. There's a the Hope Center. It's in the center of the city that's serving and and Working with training people and job skills and providing food and like you name it.

45:08

This church is involved in it right now So that would be one piece I would also say if you want a

45:14

Deeper understanding the gospel. I would encourage you go check out. This is the gospel calm.

45:20

It's a resource It's been developed helping people not only share their faith But also live their faith and the final one is if you're interested in the

45:27

Christ life go to Christ life resources .com Those are ones to help people wrestle through the ups and downs of life, but do it with the simple truth of God's Word That's pretty much all the time that we have for Chuck anything else before we go

45:43

That's Paul. We're very grateful that you were able to be a part of us on this podcast and just share your wisdom

45:49

I think it will bless all those who hear it. Yeah. Yeah, and if you are

45:54

Yeah, if you are online definitely check out pastor Paul's sermon series on basically everything you will be blessed

46:01

Paul. We love you Love you guys It is it is our desire that you the listener grow in Christ And that's why we're here

46:10

If you have any comments or questions about what we just discussed Let us know by other commenting below on the YouTube channel, or you can email us at hello at wise disciple org more episodes coming