Listener Questions: Combat Sports, Jeffrey Dahmer, & More | PT S6 E7

Boom bop pal. Welcome back to the point-taking podcast guys. My name is hunter. I'm hosting this podcast today. I love it and joining. A nice a little setup. That was good. Joining today is the illustrious the Knowing of many things Pastor Josiah Shipley, I thought that was his.

And then also joining us. The also illustrious the owner and operator of his own company major league mechanical. There's no shirt, you're right. We're just hating on me for no reason. Operating out of Memphis, Tennessee.

Let's go brother Mike. What's up, Mike? Let's get it. What is it, man? We're happy to have Mike back on the podcast for a second time. Well, we tried three one time. It didn't work. But now we got it now we got it back in and we have some really cool topics for us today guys.

We have a couple of different questions coming from a couple different places. Mostly found online one of which was brought to us by your wife.

Yes.

Which we will open with because it's super important for this church specifically because we have a ministry here at this church. The question is What is combat sport? Sinful or we could say is combat sport.

God honoring is combat sport some type of issue and so we here at Witten have.

A.

Ministry called SOG MMA. That's soldiers of God MMA that we do. We fight for the mic. So let's open up conversation guys. Combat sports is is it mentioned in the Bible, you know,. What what what are we looking at here?

As far as is it mentioned in the Bible?

Yes.

But.

It's not mentioned in the Bible. You should have an MMA ministry in your church. Paul does say what he says? Aren't there many that run the race but only one gets a prize. Paul didn't believe in participation trophies, by the way.

And then the next verse he says. I believe it's the same passage. When I run I intend to win when I box. I'm not boxing as if I'm beating the air.

Right.

Now Paul said that when I box I do not boxes if I'm trying to hit there. In other words, I'm trying to hit somebody. Now, I don't think you can take from that. Yes, that is a a God-centered command that you have to have a boxing ministry in your church.

But I think the point behind it would be this. What's your intention, yep, and the intention of this church is Has been and always will be to use that as a ministry to reach people who more than likely otherwise would not come to the church and Then to use that to enter a realm of the culture Completely different from the way everyone else approaches it.

So for example, we have an MMA ministry here and some of our church members use the gym to work out which is excellent.

A.

Lot of the people that come are training For a myriad of different reasons. A lot of young men, obviously From our community and then some of our people including myself previously have competed in the local MMA scene here at in Memphis and the idea behind SOG here at Witten is to Enter into that realm that seem carrying ourselves differently, but everyone else does.

We're not gonna go in there cursing yelling. So I'm gonna kill you. We're gonna compete we're gonna win and Then we will use The platform we have in that scene to give glory to God and not ourselves. Which unfortunately is rather rare in the mixed martial arts combat sports scene.

So that's the idea behind it.

Okay, so I have a question for Mike, but before I do that.

Are we currently aware of Hector. Is Hector still around. We haven't done Hector since you left so we need to bring him back.

Okay, so Hector idea what Hector is. Okay, so Hector is a persona. Born about was it Andrew? I think I believe it. Yes. Yeah was a persona that played the.

Alternate opinion. Okay, so let's when someone is Hector. They're giving you pain. That's not really theirs and then they morph back to themselves later. So yeah, so is this D &D?

No, no, that's a sin.

You're the dragon slayer.

Showed my exuberant knowledge for Dungeons and dragons I knew I had so much content to contribute there for y 'all toss me one of those hats. Yeah. That's not the Hector hat. It is today.

Anything can be a heck. I believe you are listening.

If you're listening and not watching have you seen the noggin on this guy, why did you give him that hat?

Well, see it's not the noggin. First of all, it's the I used to do that headphones. There we go.

So he's currently wearing the head threats everything coming out of his mouth might be.

Well, actually the first thing coming out of my mouth is gonna be scripture. So. Because being Hector doesn't mean that I'm evil or that I'm wrong. It just means that I have the opposite opinion. Okay, so.

So you said. You said and correct me if I'm wrong that we're entering in these arenas. With a different attitude with a different perspective.

We're coming in there to glorify God. Yes. Okay, so if I were to be.

The arguer here and I'm gonna be Hector. I'm gonna quote Psalms chapter 1. How happy is a man who does not follow the advice of the wicked or take the path of the sinners or join a group? of mockers instead his delight is in the law of Man.

This is a different thing that I have memorized. Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly nor standeth in the way of sinners nor sitteth in the seat Of the scornful but his delight is in the law and the Lord Is in the law of the Lord and in this law doth he meditate day and night?

Yep. So yeah King James's. I can't even read it in a different translation because I've memorized that as a child in Psalms It works wonderfully. Yeah in Psalms. It works wonderfully. So Basically it says don't stand in the way of sinners don't sit in the seat of the scornful don't be in the midst of All the sin and where the sin is.

So, how can we marry the idea of not? walking in the counsel of the ungodly and Being in the midst of the sin. And what you were saying.

By recognizing that Hector added the phrase being in the midst of sin that is not in Psalm 1 1. Amen Would be the primary way. Otherwise, Jesus would need to repent as he Aided unbelievers houses often so on so forth.

Blessed is the man who does not stand in the way of a sinner Sit up the seat of scornful or walk in the counsel of the ungodly.

Yeah.

That's exactly the point that we're that's where you should be.

Because you're trying to spread the seed where it needs to be spread the right physically.

That's where I should be but mentally and spiritually. I'm doing something different. Exactly. So this is when Paul says I guess it was to the church at Corinth. He goes when I told you to not Associate with the sexual immoral I didn't mean those of this world.

Otherwise, you'd have to leave the world and that's wherever you go. I meant with those claiming to be in the household of God that are living however, they want and feel no type of way about.

It.

But the point is.

Um.

Yeah, if we were doing that and we looked acted and talked just like everyone else and I would say it's a wasted ministry.

It's a it's a wasted. It's not a ministry. The whole point of SOG is to fight for the mic. Exactly. So you're not only just they see you in the room. It's what you say after doing said it's you get to give your message.

So the whole point of fighting for the mic. So think about this for a minute.

So We're free not to say that if someone's paying you dues to train you like that means that all right, okay. But we're free. It is genuinely a ministry of the church that we're trying to develop young men.

To be godly young men young boys a lot of times a lot of times.

Yeah, in fact last week we had 25 people there. 16 were boys under the age of 20. That's what I'm saying. That's crazy. So cuz I said all you guys 20 or 20 years and under y 'all gonna move that stuff.

16 people. There's like eight of us left.

Hear what you said, so I felt.

Crap. There's only four of us left. We walk in.

We walk in we ask our opponent if we can pray for with him before we go. We compete we win at least that's the intention. And When we are interviewed instead of talking about how incredible we are and nobody can hang with us and we're whatever.

We shine light and give glory to another to God. That's the mindset behind it.

And.

That's a balance I think a lot of people don't recognize. Christians can have a desire to compete and win not come in the second place and win. But genuinely do. I mean it says in whatever you do in word or deed you have something done for the Lord and not for.

So I will say that when it comes to competition that is an easy way to make something about yourself. So we're trying to do it a different way. That's the idea behind it. And just to put that in perspective The amount of people That I have gotten to share the gospel with encourage pray for invite the service etc because of sodom and may is Is incalculable to me.

I've been doing it for I don't know 12 years now and it is Hundreds, I mean just over this world. So that's what I would say to that.

So listen, my wife asked this question and the biggest thing of her concern was it's not she understands the what we're trying to do but the act of actually achieving that is. Combat sport. Oh, yeah, like you're going in here and knocking somebody out.

You're breaking somebody's nose. You're breaking an arm, you know. We just had Danny Barlow go and break his arm in the fight in UFC and he can like what she's saying is How is that act? Yeah glorifying God.

With the process it takes to actually be the light in the dark room. Like how do you how can you justify the actual battle MMA sports the physical contact? Where there's a risk of hurting killing Damaging something very bad.

Even if you're trying to do it the right way. That's her. That's our biggest concern.

I think and do it without using Genesis 32 because I'm going to after you. Don't I think I.

Think. The answer to that is yes, though I think that's a genuinely good question. Like for example right now if you were to rewind this you saw me adjusting my headset because my left ear is killing me because I've cauliflower ear because I've been hitting the head so much the past three weeks that it keeps swelling up.

So this isn't super comfortable draining. Cauliflower is not fun, bro. I have done it.

On average two or three times a week for two months. I got a grown man. I got to figure something else out. Oh Ava Naomi watching her super hopeful. Well, yeah throwing up in a corner. So anyway, no, no, oh, that's cool.

Hey, can I tell you get your hand away?

So.

When we train.

And.

This is something I'm not speaking of Marissa. This is something that I think a lot of people who have not done physical combat sports for don't understand. They think you have to be mad at each other while you do that kind of stuff.

No, it's like hey, man. Let's do a couple rounds afterwards. All right, let's go to I hop and yeah, and let's go read the Bible afterwards. So it's not that training was as far as so as far as the camaraderie of The actual group there is no ill will you can train combat?

Whatever and there's no ill will hatred everyone understands. There's a risk of injury and that's okay. It's physical competition now as far as competing. As far as competing outside of just training for each other.

I Think there is a difference between two guys agreeing. Signing saying hey, let's go in here and let's compete. That's different than meeting each other in a back alley.

You know what I mean that that's that's different to me or a bar fight.

Mike I was like hey Mike. Have you ever been in a fight? I'm gonna say how many were sinless. Absolutely a.

Bunch of fights. Don't look at the criminal record. I've changed man. I can I guess only speak for me. I.

Had ten amateur fights. Never once was I like man. I really want to hurt this guy. I want to make it where you can't go to work tomorrow. I want to never once right. Even people that spoke quite ill of me.

Never once. That door might not be reciprocated on the other side. It might not. That's not your job.

It might not be and I'm it's probably not it probably is not. And that's okay. Because I have a goal in there and it is to win but it's to win with a bigger cause than just winning. Mm-hmm. So yeah about you, right?

So I don't think any risk of injury Is a reason. Not to do something. I just don't misunderstand. I understand the risk is much higher in combat sports and it would be in a ministry where you're mending quilts.

But I will say the least I would say.

Get stabbed plenty of times doing that. Yeah, that's a heart of yourself. You'll bleed just as much.

I had someone one time telling me you shouldn't do things that risk injury. It shows. Just respect for your body God has given me, you know, you better live in a bubble is. Do you go on mission trips right to third world countries?

Did you drive here this morning? I say did you go to your car today? I mean, you live in Memphis.

And I use this during When sickness is going around the people like maybe we shouldn't go to church. Everyone in this room can think of someone they know who has died in a car wreck. Our city decides to put it on.

Signs going over. I -40 of how many people have died in a car wreck. Yes.

As you tell me to look up here and read a analog sign it's not like yeah easy to read a lot.

But we risk that now I understand. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I understand you have driven your car Many times without getting hurt. There's only so many times you can go train in May and not feel some type of pain and I understand that it's usually limited To one but feeling pain having one feeling pain is not sinful.

Causing someone else to feel pain if it's purposeful and agreed upon is not sinful. Otherwise, we need to go ahead and get rid of spankings and sprints and push-ups for punishment for your children. So there's a purpose to the pain and it's agreed upon by both.

That's the difference I think and I'm hope I'm not talking too much. That's the I don't say you're gonna go Genesis.

Well, yeah, but on that before I say is we would have to go and Say that God has done something wrong to us because God Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Yeah, right. God chase chastens chastens.

Chastens chastens the ones he loves. Jason did chase.

Chastens the ones he loves. And I can tell you that the pain that comes from that. Yeah, I would choose injury from MMA. Every single day of every single week. Mm-hmm. So I'm like, all right, I mean we're Measuring things here and we also have to say we would have to blame God if we say that this is a sin.

I believe you'd have to say well.

So it just comes down to the intention I think so of your heart the intention active what y 'all are doing.

I think it's the intention in the way you carry yourself. For example to your wife's point if I have someone come in who's being a wild man trying to hurt people like during training. Like intentionally trying to hurt people that person's not participating in salt.

That's not what it's about.

This is about making each other better or you put him in the ring with you and I'm in the mouth. He understands he's humbled and that has happened to everybody. Mike Tyson. Everyone has a plan until they're punched in the mouth.

It's a hundred percent true. Reset. Where's the man? I used to be able to do it so much on PlayStation. Let's see pause up X over X. That was restart.

Exactly. Yes, sir. All right, so last one that I have for this is Genesis chapter 32 and we're gonna start in verse 24. Jacob was left alone and a man wrestled with him until daybreak When the man saw that he could not defeat him. He struck Jacob's hip socket and they wrestled and dislocated his hip.

You're a genius for thinking of this one. Thank you, brother.

Then he said to Jacob let me go. For its daybreak, but Jacob says I will not let you go unless you bless me. What is your name? The man asked Jacob your name will no longer be Jacob. It'll be Israel because you have struggled with God and with men and have prevailed.

So it's what we call a Christophany. We can. Let's see. Is it too much to ask for the for like the word to appear? Oh, we can get that.

All right. Can we point at it? It's like Christophany.

It's an appearance it's an it's an appearance of flesh. Pre-incarnate Jesus pulling up. All right.

And.

So we see the rest. Yeah, I've used that word a lot of times. Pull up. You got a problem pull up.

We see that he wrestles with Jacob and Jacob's got the skill and what he strikes his hip socket. Dislocates it right. He strikes it. They wrestle a little bit more and it's like ow, it's daybreak. Let me go out.

So, you know, there is risk with With fighting and with all that but you know. We were talking about dislocating the hip socket very purposely. Like he struck his hip socket and wrestled a little bit and waited for that thing to pop.

So with no Campbell's clinic around right this dude happened to know the anatomy pretty dang.

Well, it's almost like he created it. It's almost like how many times in your MMA career. Have you popped a hip socket?

That's a special kind of move right there. The guy is either from China or is Jesus.

Yeah, he knows all the little pressure point, yeah.

So what you're using there is that Jesus to teach someone a lesson used Physical pain used physical pain for that horse and injury even but his intent was for a purpose for a good correct.

I'm saying good. That's what I'm saying. That's the entire purpose of which I'll change his name to Israel.

You know, I could tell you people. We need to move on the next question I can tell you people in that gym whose lives have been changed because of that and Whose lives are currently changing and they're not even aware of the process of they don't even know.

I'm I've been part of one.

No, no, no, man, it's like Super exciting to see his heart change like it's super cool. It really is really is. And I don't know if his heart would have I don't even think that person would have been here If it wasn't for soggy mimic, I can tell you what that's what I mean.

So that's just a it's a perfect example of one small inkling. I've only been at this church 18 to 18 months two years and I've seen growth in the sog ministry. You know sanctification.

Man so I think to tie a little bow on this question. We should say is combat sport a sin. Inherently, I would say no. I would say the attitude and the spirit that you bring into it will always dictate What is profitable what is good, right.

If you come in with a self inflating? attitude and Degrading towards others attitude then yeah, what you're doing is absolutely it bears no fruit. Look at the fruit that you bear. You don't necessarily have to be part of an MMA ministry to make MMA non-sinful.

However, your heart needs to be.

Correct. And your intention to be checked as strange as it sounds to someone who doesn't do combat sports. Your intention has to be not to tear other people down but build them up as awkward as that sounds.

And then sometimes you have.

To break someone down to visit them up. That's a. Exactly. They're so shelled so hard that you got to tear that that shell off to get to what's where they can. Rexy here.

All right question in tender hearted that I love that this morning. That was great question number two and this one comes.

Straight from the online. This is Quora, which is like reddit for less cool people or even more cool people. I don't even know.

Really cooler is it. Wow is it spelled with you? Yeah, it's like a question.

I thought it was I thought I'm not even gonna tell you what I thought. Just go ahead when I write that. So it's not Cora. Don't forget three episode ten episodes back public school. Check it out.

Okay is Jeffrey Dahmer. Mm-hmm. A man who accepted Jesus on death row after kidnapping little boys.

Yeah.

Raping them murdering them sodomizing their corpses eating their corpses and using their skeletons for decoration. Really in heaven now.

That's a youch. I think what up from all three of us would be unanimous If Jeffrey Dahmer Genuinely repented of his sins three weeks before he died or what? I don't know. Whatever. Yeah, whatever. If he genuinely printed the answer is absolutely.

Yes, because there's never been anyone who genuinely repents Whoever found Jesus to be anything other than a Savior. Now I can't tell you that happened. Sorry if the question is is he and I have no idea I can tell you that he certainly was not on the way there During his life outside of prison.

I can guarantee you that that's not the works of a believer. What happened before he died I don't know but the answer to that is the exact same as a thief on the cross. Thief is not exactly a great translation there.

But then there was a bad dude on the cross next to Jesus. Upon his genuine repentance Jesus said see in paradise today to be with me in paradise now. The proof of That had that guy lived. Let's say that Romans I've never fruit we would have seen a changed life for the next six months that we would have seen that.

So if Jeffrey Dahmer Genuinely printed repented and got out whatever we would have seen a changed life.

Well, we'll say thank God that we're not God because I would say there's an absolutely no way that you're being truthful and what you said because look at your look at the What we had to go off of. Yeah, I'm not gonna.

I'm glad that he's way more graceful than I you know. Because it would have been a hard. No for me. Well, we got to remember.

What's done with him is done. We should be far more Fearful for the people who made that profession and lives never changed and currently right now think they're on the way to heaven. Yeah, that's terrifying.

As far as those wicked horrific works that he did. Every scale will be balanced. The Bible talks about severe punishment and hell and and all that stuff. Either Jesus or the individual who committed those Will pay for those sins so that every single scale will be balanced justice will be served.

So yeah I don't know that there's a none of us can know for sure. Not just because we can't read hearts because We didn't have the opportunity to see his life after that right. And I maybe I'm unaware of how early or late this was in His prison sentence.

I don't even remember when he died said on death row. Okay.

Years now was it what is it when he was strapped into the right injection chair or was it four years into the time.

You know, so that's probably as far as we could go into that with the exception of saying Yes, if someone genuinely repents God is powerful enough to save them from all their sin. And here's here's what I'll say about it because.

This speaks and did not necessarily this question.

I mean this question was.

Listed with a whole bunch of other ones so you can kind of understand the heart and intention behind the question and in this case It was bitterness behind these questions, unfortunately. However, there have been many people who were not bitter and just wondering who've asked this exact same question.

But I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and address the heart of that question is fairness. That's what a lot of people are worried about. How is that right? How is that fair? He can do all those things and then just say sorry and be done with it.

Yeah.

Well, first of all, it is not fair and that is the entire point of the Bible and the gospel of Jesus Christ. The realization here that you need is that it is just so more much easier to see and accept with the case of Jeffrey Dahmer that he was in need of a Savior than it is to look at yourself and that's right.

I need a Savior because Jeffrey Dahmer had Went to boom, you know to the public Extreme side, you know and you struggle with and I struggle with you know. Since it might be more private or just a life sans Jesus a life without Salvation is a life in need of salvation and no one who has ever received salvation Received it fairly ever.

God got the crap end of the stick. He's the one who died and he is saving a whole bunch of people who Weren't repenting. He said father forgive them for they know not what they do. That's as they're stabbing him as they're you know, killing him, right?

He didn't wait for you to start attending church. He didn't wait for you to say you're sorry. He didn't wait for you to even realize it that you were doing anything wrong. He died for you as you were in the midst of sin.

So to say is he really in heaven like that's just messed up. Well, it's actually messed up that any of us get to go to heaven. That's what's messed up.

To dig on that question. I think it would be more appropriate Like how would God allow that that stuff to happen? Like that's that's where they're coming. Like I think I'm assuming here. It's like How would an all-knowing all-loving God allow those acts to happen and then allow him to come into the kingdom?

Right, you know like it's bigger than Repentance and for that question, I believe I understand scripture but I'm saying like as a Somebody that doesn't believe I would be like, why do I want to be part of that?

Right, you can do whatever you want and you got to get out of free jail card like just say you're sorry and Gone in there. Why you want to you know, I'm saying why like that's I think that's the Biggest part of that question.

It's not if he's in heaven It's like he knew that was gonna happen he you know Everything threw out all that and then at the end of the day all going God knew he was gonna repent and come get in Heaven, how did he allow that to happen?

Yep. That's that's where I'm hurting like that's like.

Ouch, you know, let's talk about that. But but as we go into that one little side note remember there's a difference between God forgiving someone their sin and Someone receiving Earthly punishment For crimes they committed.

Yes. So for example, it can be righteous it can be righteous for someone to be correctly put to death for their crimes here on earth and Still be forgiven for God on repentance on death row or whatever repentance and forgiveness does not equal a Removal of all consequences.

Yes. I mean, that's just not how it works. I mean, that's that's not how it works. If you feel that's the way you're to do it You're gonna have a hard time reading the Bible you're gonna have a hard time learning how to discipline your kids because Forgiveness you can forgive your children and there still be yeah, and there's still gonna forgive them tomorrow and the next day Forgiven the day but forgiveness doesn't mean a removal of okay, I forgive you.

Yeah. But someone's still washing that wall. Yeah.

Close up. Yeah, you're gonna do whatever. Yeah.

As far as how could such a loving God allow such horrific acts of Atrocities to happen, you know that question has been asked. Hopefully by all of us at some point. It's called the odyssey. And you can go a lot of ways about answering it.

But here's just a few helpful ones and you guys jump in whenever you feel like it. When you talk about how could God allow things to happen? My answer to that person is always the same. Okay. What would you have preferred God done and I don't sit as a trap or trick or whatever.

What would you have preferred God done? Sometimes the answer that question helps answer the question itself. For example. And I'll shift and we'll come back to this exact one. The Canaanites are a good example.

The Canaanites were Doing horrific things as a culture. I Mean killing their young. I'm just horrific things and God told Abraham in 400 years. They're not gonna have repented and I'm bringing you back to take this land.

That's exactly what happened. God brought the people out of Egypt out of slavery. Which he put them into slavery for their sin and selling the brother into slavery. Jacob yeah, and excuse me, Joseph brings them out and they go and they conquer Canaan.

That is God putting an end to the horrific things that the Canaanites were doing. Now normally the response given to me is so he killed them. I said, yes, he justly judged them for what they have been doing for 400 years whose children did the same thing.

Who's grandchildren who's great going and they'll say and they'll say something. Well, that's not fair. I'm like, okay I see three options. God can continue to let it happen for forever. If That happened you would say God's unfair 400 years there were people saying why is God letting exactly if God forced them to do things they didn't want to do and Robotically made them do X Y Z.

When I show you examples of the Bible you say that's not fair because he violates their free will. I mean even Bruce Almighty wasn't allowed to do that on another member. And you don't like that when he judges them properly for the dead you say it's too harsh so.

Stuff like that's easy. What makes this one hard is the victims. Were and I don't mean spiritually innocent, but we're innocent of any crime. You understand they were innocent of any earthly crime. My answer that would be threefold one.

Most clearly, I don't know. That's where I'm at. It says that one day I will and I am satisfied With at least that it says one day. I will not have to to we live in a fallen world and there are evil Evils all around us as a result of that fallen world we as a humanity have chosen evil and God is allowing us to live in the world that we chose over him.

That's the ultimate answer now people don't like that answer. That's the truth that's the ultimate answer that we have rejected his way and So God is allowing us to live in the world that we chose and when we don't like the results.

When we don't like the results we blame.

God or.

Everything else other than ourselves. But this is the sample we chose and you know, sometimes people say well, it's not the sample I chose. Well, actually it is. Because there's only two possible things.

There's autonomy and theonomy. Theonomy is God's law. Autonomy is self-law if we are not submitted the God's law. Then we're still a submitted to man's law. And this is the part that people got to recognize.

Why is what Jeffrey Dahmer did wrong now if there is no God and There is no standard of God's law. Let's push this to the side like our culture is done. Let's push that over there. Why is it wrong? You don't even have a scale to go off.

You don't even have I can tell you why it's wrong. I Can tell you why it's wrong because rape is a capital offense and exodus. Because murder is prohibitive of God's law because taking advantage of the young is prohibited by Jesus.

Okay. Yeah. You can't say that you have a standard and just to be straight with you and this one always makes atheists mad. Luckily, I don't care. Think about this for a moment and just hear me for a moment if all we are is super evolved.