Political Activism - A Christian's Role

All right, enough fun and games. We've got work to do here. Welcome to The Wrap Report with your host,

Andrew Rappaport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application. This is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and the

Christian podcast community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

Well, welcome back to another episode of The Wrap Report. I'm your host, Andrew Rappaport, and I am joined by Bud.

How you doing, Bud? I'm great, man. How are you doing? I am not your host. I am the guy that says yes sir and no sir and provokes you occasionally.

Bud, are you feeling like a party? Hey. I mean, that's what your shirt says. Your shirt says,

I like to party. So I'm just curious. Well, you got to read the rest of it.

Well, you have to sit up to me and read the rest. When I just originally, so I like to party. Oh, I like to party. And by party,

I mean, read theology. Okay. That makes more sense. Amen. Can I get an amen and maybe women?

Yeah, no women here. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, we're not. We're not doing that. That, by the way, has to be the most ridiculous thing

I've ever seen in Congress. For folks who don't know, maybe they haven't been paying attention to news.

They're just blind to what goes on around them. I don't know. But there was, I think he claims to be a pastor.

I think he's actually like a chaplain for Congress. And he prayed and prayed amen and a women thinking that man, you're not supposed to say men.

And so he was saying men and women are not realizing amen is actually a

Hebrew word. It means to believe it's a way of affirmation.

It's Hebrew. It's not men. Everything is oppression, everything.

And it's all genderized. And it's all politicized. And yeah, that was just ridiculous.

And that's a little bit what we're going to talk about today. But before we do, you know, but you'll be surprised.

I am. Nothing you do surprises me, frankly. I watched a movie.

I watched a movie. A movie. I watched a movie. Yes. It was called run.

No, wait. Yeah. Run, hide, fight. Run, hide, fight.

Yeah. Run, hide, fight was a movie I saw. It is put out by the

Daily Wire. They actually are trying to create conservative media, conservative movies, movies that can compete against Hollywood, but with a conservative type of bent, promoting conservative values.

And I'm going, well, there really wasn't conservative values in there as much as just, you know, not someone not being selfish.

Well, wait, maybe that is conservative nowadays. I'm sorry. But it was a really good movie.

It was it was, you know, it was a thriller. It kept you it kept you, you know, paying attention.

It wasn't like typical, you know, conservative type or Christian type movies. This wasn't Christian movie, but, you know, where they're really kind of corny.

So like running and hiding and fighting or conservative values. Does that make sense?

Well, OK. Relative to the times, I mean, it may just be subjective. No, I get it.

OK, I figured it out. It's changing from someone that is going from a Democrat to a conservative person to run and then hide.

Hiding is kind of when they're there, their independence. And then when they're conservative, they stand up and fight. Well, actually, we've had seven months of fighting in every city.

So let's let's talk today about political activism. Great, because I've got a couple of petitions and some boycotts and a few things

I need to get you to sign on to when we're done. I'll send them to you after we're finished. Do I have to share them with 10 friends?

Well, you can. It would be helpful because, you know, the more we get involved in this, the greater impact we can have.

I should really focus all of my time on this, shouldn't I? Like about everything else. Well, you've got to have priorities.

So so here's the thing. I did not expect the. Just the overwhelming abuse

I got from what I thought was a pretty simple post on Facebook.

I posted that I think it's about time we start praying for the soon to be President Biden.

And I put first Timothy one, sorry, first Timothy two, one to two, which which directly speaks to praying for your leaders, pray for government authorities.

And I didn't think I was going to get the backlash that I got.

Wow. I mean, I was for Obama. No, I didn't vote for Obama.

No. Did you pray for Obama? Yes. Yeah. I mean, I prayed for his salvation.

I prayed that Obama would, you know, would lead this country well. Obviously, God didn't answer the prayer the way

I was hoping, but he let Obama continue doing what he did. But yeah,

I prayed for him because that's what Scripture says. But the amount of people that were just vehement with me. The last

I dropped the special bonus episode just talking about what's going on in our country and the

Capitol and how to view some of these things. And a lot of people like to. But there are people,

Bud, that I'm realizing that are so tied to their political views that it really does interfere with seems everything.

I mean, they can't seem to be able to work with people. Unless they're going to have this issue, whatever it is resolved with politically.

It was very kind of discouraging to see the reaction. Are you talking about Christians or were you on your atheist page?

No, I'm talking about debating with atheists. No, no, this was on my wall. Yeah. So you would think that you wouldn't get that kind of backlash from professing

Christians when we're dealing with a response to a command of Scripture. Yeah. And it's interesting because there's a

Canadian atheist who's been on my Apologetics Live show, and he actually appreciated the tone and tenure of what

I had said. He's a huge Biden fan and he just hates everything conservative. He doesn't have good reason for it, but does anyway.

So look at the paradox of that. You got an atheist. They probably appreciate the fact that you're going to pray to your God for Biden because they are in line and league with Biden.

And you got professing Christians who are ready to anathematize you because you dare utter that we should be obedient to a biblical command.

And people were blocking me. I was told that I worship Satan, that I'm not saved, all because I wanted to say

I want to obey God's word. And people were telling me, what about the preparatory prayers?

We should be doing that. Okay. Let's look at context. And if we look at the context, you end up seeing that the context of 1

Timothy 2 is directly related to our role with our leaders.

That's direct. It's instructional literature. So it's teaching us things to do, and it's giving instruction to pray for our government leaders.

When you look at the Psalms and the preparatory prayers, first off, that you don't have that toward their own leaders.

Those are toward other pagan nations. So it's not a direct one -to -one.

People make that mistake. And what it is, is those Psalms are Psalms against pagan gods, really, the pagan nations that are doing things in the name of God.

And it is not the same as the way we should respond to our own leadership.

Our own leadership, we should be seeing things as with submission. And I think that's missing in the circles that we have.

So what I want to do, Bud, this week is I want to go through an article. You can search for it.

Actually, you pointed this out to me. If you just go on to DuckDuckGo, that's the replacement for Google, the one that doesn't track everything you're doing.

But if you go to DuckDuckGo and do a search, and just search Christian political activism, and this article is like two or three in that list.

And it's called Political Activism, a Christian's Role. You can just go to strivingforeternity .org, strivingforeternity .org,

and there, you would be able to get the, from there, you can get the article.

You can either just search for political activism, or if you want to go direct, well, I'll have it in the show notes if you just go down and read there.

But it's strivingforeternity .org slash, and then it'll be Christian, or sorry, it'll be

Political Activism, a Christian's Role. And there'll be dashes in between each of those.

And so, that is something. So, I want you to go there. I'll have it there.

Before we get into that, let me take care of this, bud. We got a review. I don't know if I read this review.

But we got a new review. It is a five -star review.

So, what do you think about that? We got another five -star review. Yeah. And if anyone wants to give us a review, we would appreciate that.

It is very kind of you. There's a link in the show notes there to leave a review. But you just go to Love My Podcast.

It's called lovemypodcast .com slash

Rapp Report. Remember, Rapp has two Ps. So, the review we got was from Alan554, five stars.

He says, Biblically sound, reasonable faith. As a

Christian discerning a new church home in the midst of modernism, takeover of American Christianity, I find these podcasts so useful.

They help me discern right doctrine. They are biblically sound and invite reasonable discussion.

This is not emotional -driven pop culture. They really expound gospel truth.

So, we appreciate that, Alan. That is very kind words that you have for us.

So, with that, let's get into this article, bud. I don't want to try to read through a lot of this just so that people can have it, but we're going to comment on it as well.

In the first part of the article, I asked a question. So, let me read that and we'll start with that.

What should be a Christian's role and responsibility in politics? It has been a question throughout the centuries.

In our current political climate—and by the way, folks, when I was writing this, this was 14 years ago, 2006.

And it's gotten so much better since then, right? Yeah, this has become even more relevant than it was in 2006.

So, in our current political climate, even more so now, many

Christians are more familiar with the Republican Party's message than the gospel message of Jesus Christ.

You know, bud, that one line has gotten me in more trouble. Every four years, this article becomes a hot button.

But that one line has gotten me in more trouble. More people get upset with me because I say many

Christians are more familiar with the Republican Party's message than the gospel message of Jesus Christ.

Oh, wow. Oh, I believe that. I mean, you've got a vibrant flavor of American—and I use scare quotes—

American Christianity that has, you know, old glory draped across the cross of Christ, and the

Republican Party is the foremost representative of those values.

Yes. Yeah, this is really the heartbeat of what we're going to talk about here, is there is an issue,

I think, as we look at this, where this is a thing that I see within Christianity where it is, where are you trusting?

Are you trusting in God? Or are you trusting in government? I find it so interesting that conservatives who support the

Republican Party, who want to push for the whole thing of we need to be having small government, and yet so many of these

Christians are trusting that government is going to solve problems when government is the problem.

How are they going to solve a problem when they're the cause? Any government is the problem.

It doesn't matter if you go back to the government of the glorious 50s. It doesn't matter. Well, I'm sorry, but I'm not old enough to remember the 50s.

Oh, well, neither am I, sir. But you seem to get this sort of flavor.

Everybody wants to go back to the good old days. Wait a minute, none of them were good. There were no good old days.

And that's a problem. But here's the thing. Let me go through some of these questions that I ask in this article, because these are things that we're still dealing with today, and I think that we want to try to answer on the show.

So the questions that I end up saying here, I said many in the political world see

Christianity much like other lobbyist groups. And that's really an issue for me, because what

I see there is that to the politics, they just see Christians as a political group that needs to be defeated and the largest supporting group of the

Republican Party. So when they want to go after the Republican Party, who are they going to go after? Christians.

Take out the Christians, the Republican Party doesn't get reelected. I believe that's what we're coming to see.

We're going to be seeing that very shortly. So here's the questions that I ask.

Is there a difference between activism of Christian in politics and a homosexual?

Is it the responsibility of the Christian to be involved in politics?

And if so, at what levels? Should Christians be actively trying to change laws to create a more moral society?

Unfortunately, we notice that there's many Christian leaders that have used their pulpits and their microphones to promote a message of conservative

Christianity over that of Jesus Christ. Is it biblical for leaders to do so? Should Christians support such ministries?

In America, all citizens have an obligation to vote and we should honor that, right?

However, how much further should Christians go to get their message out?

And what would that message be? In the past few decades, these lines have been blurred.

I think it is time for us as Christians to do a re -examination of our role and responsibility in political activism.

And for that reason, we want to look at what the scriptures teach about government. Living a

Christian life in an ungodly society is never going to be easy. And I believe that in our culture,

I believe in America right now in 2021, this is going to be even more so.

I think that the things that I was concerned with 14, 15 years ago, when

I wrote the article, I think I see it even more today. It's more of an issue today.

People have become so emotional about these issues. I know that this won't be popular, bud, but I know that so many people want to say that what happened at the

Capitol was all a bunch of antifa and they completely slipped it in and they did a false flag type of scenario.

A false flag is when basically people come in and pretend to be a group, but they actually will go out and try to make the group look bad.

Was there some of that? Yeah, we know that. They just arrested a guy who was an agitator for Black Lives Matter for their protest.

We know that at least one, but it wasn't all. That's the thing that I think people have to recognize.

This wasn't something that was, they're all like this. There were a bunch of people that are so emotionally charged that when some agitators started moving forward, when they could get into that, they did do some damage.

Let's be honest. You see some of the video and they're just walking around taking photos.

That's nothing that you see at a BLM rally. I don't think I saw people at BLM taking photos with the statues before tearing them down.

But wait a minute. I mean, Andrew, they were torching cities and marching in the streets and damaging public property and injuring and much worse.

In all of those kinds of riots, they got to do it. What's wrong with us doing it?

We're conservatives. We have a right to do that. You have to realize that that never happened. This is the first riot.

It's also the first time anyone entered the Capitol under protest. What happened with Kavanaugh just within a few years ago, that didn't really happen.

You have to understand that. But here's the thing that you end up seeing. You do have to acknowledge that we had seven months of riots that led up to this.

We were told that this is the proper way to get your voice heard. I disagreed with it with BLM.

I disagreed with it with the Capitol. It really was, in this case, a mostly peaceful protest.

Why do we say that? Because when you look at the sheer numbers of people who were there, hundreds of thousands, and there were only less than 100 in the building.

Yeah, that's a mostly peaceful protest percentage wise. It's one one thousandth.

Now, did we have the same level of peaceful protesting with BLM?

I don't think so. It's not the same. You can't hold it to that same standard.

I think that we have to acknowledge that there is some things that we have to see to deal with.

What I want to start with, though, is as for Christians, why don't we start from the early church and set the stage?

Because the scripture was written in a time where there's a historical setting to it. I think before we get into some of these passages, we need to understand the early church and understand what they were going through to see when we look at these passages of scripture and the response that the writers of scripture have, what's the context in which they're giving?

That sounds like a fair thing to do, don't you think? Yeah, I think that's fair. Kind of one of the roles of interpretation, right?

So looking at the early church, we have to understand that the Roman government was not very considerate toward Christians.

I mean, initially, they just saw

Christianity as a sect of Judaism. It was just part of the Jewish religion. They didn't see it as separate.

But after that separation, there became issues with Nero where Nero thought he was this great artist.

Maybe his mother should have let him get into art and be a failure in art rather than emperor. Well, I guess he was actually a failure in both.

But part of the problem is when you're emperor and you pay for everyone to do a play and they're all going to tell you it's the best because they die if they criticize it.

So he had an inflated view that he was this great artist. And from what

I understand, he wasn't that good either at that. But Nero ended up creating a lot of tension for Christians.

He started to persecute them, even lighting them on fire for his parties.

But what was the impetus for his persecution of Christians? Why did he finally decide to do that after having a precedent of Rome sort of tolerating it as a

Jewish sect? What set him over the edge? What set him over the edge was he burned the city down because he wanted to rebuild it.

And also, he thought everyone would be praising him for his great works of art and what he was planning, the great things he planned for the city.

But he didn't think about the fact that this was their home. And they didn't quite like having their homes burned and their businesses burned.

And just like today, people don't like their cities being burned. And again, I guess we see a similarity here.

Congress didn't mind, it seems, when the cities were burning because they didn't live there. But when people came in the capital, then they got upset.

Well, OK, it was a feigned attempt to being upset then, but Nero was the same way.

Nero didn't mind the city burning, but he didn't like it when people blamed him for it.

So he needed someone to blame. And the Christians became the scapegoat. Oh, exactly like today, when

Pelosi is saying that breaking into capitals because of whiteness and white evangelicalism, that's the blame.

So we see some actually more similarities than we might know. But that's where there started to be pressure.

And we have to understand that pressure, OK, because Rome ended up outlawing

Christianity, making it illegal. And during the first few centuries, there was great persecution with the

Roman Empire. The actions of the early Christians provide today's

Christians with an example of a biblical model. So during that early church, the

Christians, they practiced their religious worship of God. But the

Roman authorities would discover them, it would mean death, torture, or being fed to the lions in arenas.

So although the consequences were extremely severe, more severe than we have in our day and age, but I think those days may be coming, many

Christians faked death rather than disobedience to God. Some Christians almost looked forward to suffering as a badge of honor to suffer for Christ.

In fact, in the first couple centuries, there was a thought that there was a gift of martyrdom.

People thought that they were given a spiritual gift to be a martyr. So though that's not for everybody, but there were some that viewed things that way.

Even when government would come looking for Christians, they were willing to suffer the consequences for their obedience to God.

They did not use their energy and resources to change political views for Christianity.

They focused on the gospel. And this is the thing that I think is missing for many today.

We're so fixated on trying to address issues that we're skipping the real issue.

And we have people that want to see the government change rather than see the gospel change the government.

So the writing of the New Testament, we have to remember this is under this pagan, hostile, anti -Semitic, anti -Christian

Roman government. And many assume that Christians were nothing more than that same

Jewish sect, but as they separated, it came under even more persecution. And so believers became the objects of slander, malicious rumors, due to not only their close association with Judaism, but also because of their own views that people misunderstood.

Okay, so the authorities accused the Christians of insurrection against Rome. Well, that sounds familiar.

Sounds exactly like we're hearing today. And you got to understand this, but the

Christians of the first century were accused of being atheists. And that seems strange to some, so let me explain why.

They refused to worship all of the pagan gods, the multitudes of pagan gods.

And for that reason, they were called atheists because they didn't accept all of the gods, they've only believed in one.

They were accused of being cannibals because of a distortment of the communion, thinking they're actually eating the body and blood of Christ.

They were accused of being immoral and incestuous because they referred to one another as brothers and sisters.

So they thought that those relationships were more sexual and encouraging actual incest.

They were damaging and destroying the idol trade of their day, and that brought them under accusation.

They were accused of destroying family life by introducing Christ into the life of some family member.

So someone gets saved in a family and all of a sudden there's division in family. These are some of the things we end up seeing.

They were accused of hating people because they wouldn't adopt the world's ways.

We see that as well today. We see people that attack Christianity because you don't love, you hate people because they're homosexual.

No, I'm not hating them. I just say that it's a sin and that's a loving thing to do, to warn them.

So therefore, when we look at the commands that we're going to look at in Scripture, we have to understand that these things are being written under a hostile government's

Christianity. So there are some clear

Scripture that we could look at as believers' roles in toward our government and how active we should be.

The Scripture provides clear examples of those who live these out. In fact, if you look at the first six chapters of Daniel, we see that Daniel, Hanaiah, Mishael, and Azariah, by the way, that's their names.

I don't know why everyone memorizes their Babylonian names instead of their Hebrew names. It must be easier for people to say, but they provide for us an example of how to respond.

When you think about it, Daniel didn't sit there and, oh, you have to eat this food.

I can't eat the food. Let me protest. Let me try to create a group of people to get up together and fight it.

Well, there were a lot of Jews there. I mean, he could have had a petition going around just because Scripture doesn't tell us.

That's true, but what it does tell us is he went to those in charge, and when they said no, he didn't give up.

He went to his boss. So it's like, okay, the guy above me says no.

I'll go to his boss and see if he'll say yes. Oh, he says yes. Good. And he kept trying to work with the government to get the government to show some tolerance toward what

God had given him as a law. You even see it with Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah when they were told they were going to be treated differently.

They had to bow down or they're thrown into a pit, and they said, okay, we'll go to the pit, you know, burn us.

Yeah. I mean, they were willing to suffer loss for the sake of doing what's right by God.

Look, I'm not saying that I will be thrilled if this country goes to socialism and they start persecuting

Christians. I'm not looking forward to that, but if that's God's will, am I going to fight that?

I don't think we should. If that's God's will, that's God's will.

We want to submit to God. The issue I think we have is we really need, as Christians, to see what

God has to say on this. But let's start with a passage, Jeremiah 29. This is before this passage became everyone's life verse, so this may put context for what verse 11 is actually talking about.

So could you read Jeremiah 29, 4 -14 for us? 4 -14, yes.

Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, to all who were carried away captive, whom

I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem to Babylon, build houses and dwell in them, plant gardens and eat their fruit, take wives and beget sons and daughters, and take wives for your sons and give your daughters to husbands so that they may bear sons and daughters, that you may be increased there and not diminished.

And seek the peace of the city where I have caused you to be carried away captive, and pray to the

Lord for it, for in its peace you will have peace. For thus says the Lord of hosts, the

God of Israel, do not let your prophets and your diviners who are in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you cause to be dreamed.

For they prophesy falsely to you in my name, I have not sent them, says the Lord. For thus says the

Lord, after 70 years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform my good word toward you and cause you to return to this place.

For I know the thoughts that I have toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

Then you will call upon me and go and pray to me, and I will listen to you, and you will seek me and find me when you search for me with all your heart.

I will be found by you, says the Lord, and I will bring you back from your captivity. I will gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you, says the

Lord, and I will bring you to the place from which I caused you to be carried away captive.

And so when we look at the context here, many people know Jeremiah 29 11 and don't look at the context, but the context,

God is pronouncing a punishment on Israel. This is a judgment. It's going to be a 70 -year judgment.

They were going to be into captivity, and what does say? God explains that they are to, quote, seek the peace of the city, unquote.

Wow. You're not supposed to rebel. You're not supposed to try to change it. You're not supposed to say, you know,

Babylon, we don't like your laws. We're going to fight. That's not what it says. Do we pick up arms and fight against them?

This is a very unpopular thinking for many because they want to keep capitalism, and we see that the world wants to push this country to socialism.

But this is no different than what Israel had to go through. And what does God say? He doesn't say fight them.

He says, I'm going to put you into this captivity for 70 years. Being captive under a pagan nation's rule was

God's will, and to fight that would have been sin. Just let that sink in, that God's will was for them to submit.

So, being captive under a pagan nation's rule is God's will. To fight it would be sin.

Think about that. God promised that they would return to Israel.

That's the promise everyone uses in verse 11. That was for Israel. What is more important to God?

Obedience or politics? Do we want a more moral nation or a godly nation? Clearly, God desires obedience and has to remind his children that he is sovereign.

God uses government to fulfill his plans. Therefore, people should not rebel against governments because it would be rebelling against God's will.

That's hard for some to take. I understand. They made no attempt to try to change the culture through political means, but to be an example of godly living, such as Daniel.

Daniel was an example to the leaders around him, such that they recognized the

God of Daniel. But would they have recognized that if he was trying to make a political party and fight the system?

In fact, one of the things with Daniel that's kind of interesting. When Babylon fell and the

Medo -Persians came in, the thing that typically would happen is you kill off all of the leaders of the previous government.

They didn't do that with Daniel. In fact, Daniel remained in a position of power in the new government.

Why? Because he fought the Babylonians so hard? No, because even under the

Babylonian rule, he stood out as an example. But why don't we look at Proverbs 24.

Do you mind reading Proverbs 24, 21, and 22? Proverbs 24, 21, and 22.

My son, fear the Lord and the king. Do not associate with those given to change, for their calamity will rise suddenly.

And who knows the ruin those two can bring? You know, as the wisest man that ever lived at that time said,

Solomon provides some instruction, not only instruction, but reasoning.

The first is to fear the Lord and then the king. Well, there's a priority there, isn't there?

So we fear the Lord and the king. The Lord first, because if we fear the king and then the

Lord, who's really going to be the one we're obeying? The king. So we might put the

Lord in second place. No, it's the Lord and then the king. So that's one thing that we end up seeing here.

The power of these two verses is the reasoning he gives, though, to who to associate with.

The Lord is unchanging throughout time. Therefore, he's unmoved.

We had Obama, then we had Trump, then now it looks like we're going to have

Biden. This is the reality. There's always going to be a next calamity, a next king.

That's going to, you know, do not associate with those given to what?

Change. Hey, wait, wait. Wasn't that someone's political thing? Like a motto.

Yeah, like change is not always good. You can hope and change, but if you're just hoping for, you know,

I guess the hope that things will change for the better.

The reality, though, is we don't want to associate with those who change. We have to be careful with that.

We end up having to recognize that though we see that wave of change, and that's really what we see going on in our country right now is on both sides, everyone wants change.

The Lord says do not associate with those given over to change, for their calamity will rise suddenly, and who knows the ruin that they could bring.

Well, and you know that that speaks to the doctrine of sovereignty. It speaks particularly to the doctrine of God's immutability.

He does not change. Therefore, for the Christian, what do we have? We have the book from which we've just been reading.

We have his unchanging word, so that gives us stability regardless of these fluctuating empires that we may or may not live under, and whether we go through what apparently we may be going through right now.

God's word is constant because God is constant, and we have hope in that, and we have stability and perseverance in that.

Yeah, and this is what's so lacking for people. I mean, let's get to 1 Timothy 2, 1 to 3, because this is the one that I quoted, and I referred to, and got so many people upset with me, but what is it scripture tells us to do?

I think it's kind of clear. Could you read 1 Timothy 2? Therefore, I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings, and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence, for this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our

Savior. So, let's put this in context. This is Paul when he's in prison, when the persecution is happening.

He is speaking, when he says, of King of Nero. Yes. So, let us have some context here, because Biden is bad, but he's not as bad as Nero was, and what is it that Paul says that we need to do?

He says here that we are to pray, pray for kings.

Like, we're to pray for kings, including Nero? Yes, that's exactly what he's saying.

You might say Nero was God's man for the hour. Yes. He provides not just one.

He doesn't just say pray. He gives four different things to pray, or four different ways to pray.

Supplications, prayers, intercessions, giving of thanks. He's emphasizing it. Let's look at Titus 3, 1, and 2.

Ethan, do you want to say on that? No. It's that paradox of biblical truth that we're given.

When he says give thanks, now, do you think Paul in prison is giving thanks for Nero?

How could you do that? Well, you could do that, because when you go back a couple more chapters and go to James, count it all joy, brethren.

Why? Because this is the work of God, and if you can't see the hand of God in our time, you really need to examine yourself.

But yeah, Titus 3, 1, and 2. Hold on. Before you get to Titus, let me just say something with what you said, because it sparked something in me.

Paul in Philippians talks about this imprisonment that he was in, and he talks about all the

Roman guards that are hearing the gospel. Right. So, this is the question,

Christian. What is your perspective? Are you going to say, no, we've got to fight against this tyranny, and we have to fight it and keep capitalism, keep our comfortable

Christianity, or are we going to say, you know what? Let the gospel go forth. The gospel is going to be clearer and shine brighter in dark times, but not if you're not sharing it, right?

Exactly. So, how could he give thanks? He could give thanks because he sees God's hand even in his imprisonment, even in bad things happening to him.

He can look for what God is doing through that. So, Titus 3.

Yes, sir. Titus 3, 1, and 2. Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.

And when we think about this, this is instructional literature.

This is a command. This is a certain instruction that...actually,

I'm going to check. I didn't look to see if it was a command. I want to see if it's an imperative there. Titus 3.

Do some stuff with it. Okay. So, remind is an imperative. Remind them to be subject.

So, he's commanding Titus to remind the people that they are to be subject. How should they be subject?

But maybe it's me. Maybe I'm reading this text wrong. Does it say? It kind of says. Remind them to be subject to your rulers by storming the capital, burning cities down, knocking over monuments, petitions, refusing to vote.

Did I read that wrong? No, I don't see that in there. To obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility.

Yeah. I mean, that's kind of in stark contrast to the way, unfortunately, many Christians are viewing the way to respond to a

Biden presidency. They're seeing that we should fight. We should go to war.

I mean, there's people that are thinking, maybe we should go and have another revolutionary type war, which brings up another topic.

You bring it up. Well, we talked about it before we went live. I take the position that the revolutionary war is unbiblical.

It was an unbiblical war. People hate when I say that. But we have to look at scripture before God or scripture before King, right?

It's God before the King. And we have to obey what God says, even if it means some things we don't like.

Yeah. But now, Andrew, I mean, in possible defense of those

Puritans who were being persecuted and fled the persecution and came to America, established the colonies.

There is an argument out there that says they did it in obedience to scripture.

What argument is that? Well, it's Matthew 10, 23 that says, but whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next.

But truly, I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.

They fled to the next. They fled from one place to another to avoid persecution. That's it.

I'm convinced. Okay. Yeah. Wow. That's a great argument. Okay.

That argument is a bad argument. Let me tell you why. You're taking it as a historical narrative.

This is Jesus speaking to his disciples when they're going from city to city. He doesn't say, if the city doesn't accept my message, create a new government.

That's not what that says. It says go to the next city and share the gospel there. So that is unfortunately taking it out of its context and giving it a new meaning.

Just because you're being persecuted and you flee doesn't mean that you create a new country.

Evangelicals never take anything out of context. Oh, you're right. Okay. So let's get the two passages most people know when talking about this.

So we've actually been building up, if you haven't noticed, to the two main texts. The first, everyone already knows they're thinking the second one, but the first one is 1

Peter 2. Yeah. 13 to 17. So, Bud, why don't you read that one for us?

Okay. 1 Peter 2, 13 through 17. Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the

Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme or to governors as those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.

For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bond servants of God.

Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king. So I think,

Bud, let me look at this. I think there's a technical variant there. May I rephrase?

I think it's supposed to say, therefore submit yourselves to the ordinances that you like of the man for the

Lord's sake. This is the new King James that I read from, because that's what you've got here in this article, but I could look at the

NASB and see if it says... Wait, no, you know, yeah, let's see. The NASB, I don't think that says...

Maybe that it's just that we don't see it there. It really is supposed to be there.

It's supposed to be there. I think maybe we just read it wrong. Submit yourself to every tolerable ordinance?

Yeah, I know. I see in new American stances, submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution.

Does every there mean every? Yeah, I guess every means the ones I like.

That must be. Yeah. No, it doesn't. It makes you feel good. Yeah, but this is the whole thing.

We don't get to choose which ordinances of man we're going to obey unless the ordinance of man is a direct violation of scripture.

And I hate to disappoint you, capitalism is not an ordinance of scripture. I mean, capitalism came out of biblical principles, but every ordinance actually means every ordinance.

You know, in the way that the NASB words it, every human institution.

That would say all of it, whether federal or local. Even those that are systemically racist?

Yeah, well, you know, if there was... No, don't go off on a tangent. I brought that up and I shouldn't have.

If there was a systemic racist problem in the government, then the only solution is to leave. Because if you're saying it's systemic, it can't be fixed.

Yeah. But go ahead. This is the command that we are to do, right?

We are to submit to every. Now, the word submit in the Greek is an imperative.

It is a command. You are to submit. Submit to what?

To every ordinance. Not just the ones you like. So Peter makes it clear that the will of God is to submit to government.

That's hard for people. Peter makes it clear. This isn't

Andrew saying this. Peter, scripture. So let me word it differently.

Let me word it differently. Since God wrote that, God makes it clear that the will of God is to submit to government.

Yeah. Is that clear enough for us? Do we understand? God's will is to submit to government.

It's not saying we submit to government when we like it. God's will is to submit to government unless the government is requesting direct disobedience to God.

Other than that, it's God's will to submit to government. Does that offend some people?

Well, apparently, it offended a lot of people when you posted what you posted about praying for the incoming president.

Yeah. And that surprised me. This is scripture, folks.

This isn't Andrew. This is what the scriptures say. There have been some

Christians that will do things in the name of Christianity.

I mean, there were people that were there, and this is part of the issue, when they were in that capital, and they were doing things in the name of Christianity, trying to put signs up for Christianity, as they're violating the law.

The reason for this submission is to silence the foolish men by doing good.

That's what the text says. The goal of the gospel is not moral laws or moral people.

The goal of the gospel is righteousness. Think about that, folks.

The goal of the gospel is not moral laws and people.

The goal of the gospel is righteousness.

That is our goal. And you're sure we can't vote that in? I don't think so.

I think I could be wrong. I think someone in Roman history tried that. Just declared everyone

Christian, and we got a more corrupt system. I think Paul speaks about the law not being able to save Galatians somewhere.

I think Romans all over the place. No, you don't produce righteousness from the law.

That's right. Let's get, Bud, one more for us, and it is the one everyone's thinking of.

They knew we'd get here, right? I mean, we kind of had to get here. Romans 13, 1 to 7.

Okay, Romans 13, 1 through 7. Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities.

For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

Therefore, whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

For rulers are not a terror to good works but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority?

Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same, for he is God's minister to you for good.

But if you do evil, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain, for he is

God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore, you must be subject not only because of the wrath but also for conscience's sake, for because of this you also pay taxes, for they are

God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due taxes to whom taxes are due, custom to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

So, when we look at this, I mean, this is a very clear text. The command here is clear.

Submit to governing authorities in all matters that does not directly cause disobedience to God's word.

In every matter, if they say, stop worshiping

God, okay, we like Daniel say, we go to the lions then.

But other than that, in all matters, we submit. The Lord has ordained or appointed all governing authorities.

There's no authority except that which is established by God. God uses governing authorities as an instrument, not as an end unto itself.

He uses as an instrument to bring about what he's doing. He's not bringing it about for the government as if that's the end all be all.

So, resisting governing authorities opposes the ordinance of God. I'll say that again.

Resisting governing authorities opposes the ordinance of God. Those that resist the government suffer for disobedience by the hand of the government.

Suffering for disobedience sake is not persecution. It's called punishment. When we fight against our government and our government fights back, they don't bear the sword in vain.

When we fight against our government and they respond back, we're not being persecuted, we're being punished.

So, we have to recognize that. Even if that government is immoral and corrupt, as it was in Paul's day, it is in our day, but God established governments to promote and protect the lives of its citizens.

Therefore, it is something that we do not fight against. Those that obey government have nothing to fear.

You say, but Andrew, wait a minute. We have all this persecution that are going to come when they come attacking Christians and we're going to lose our livelihoods when they take all our money and go to socialism.

Yes. What is it you're really fearing? You're fearing what?

You're going to lose your life in the end and be with Christ? You fear God? You fear men.

Because when you're fearing what the government may do to you, when you do right, then you're fearing men.

You fear God. Do what's right and let whatever come as it may.

If you're fearing the Lord, yes, you may go through persecutions. Yes, America has been an anomaly in Christianity.

It has been the longest stretch where genuine believers have not been persecuted. That looks like it's coming to an end.

But the genuine Christian that chooses not to fear man, but to fear

God, is going to be the one that's going to obey the government even when it comes after us, even when it takes our money and takes everything from us and throws us in jail.

Doing that is on their heads, their judgment. But for us, what do we fear?

The worst they could do for us, Christian, is bring us before our Lord and Savior. And is that not the most glorious thing we would want?

I think that's part of the problem with American evangelicalism right now is we've become so detached from doctrine that when we talk about sovereignty, it's just sort of this nebulous idea out there.

We don't really understand in an imminent way. God is orchestrating by His providence every single thing that goes on.

We have the hope in Christ, and we are in Christ. So ultimately, we don't have martyr complexes, but we don't fear death.

Death is the means by which we're going to be ushered in the presence of God. So one of the things that you alluded to both in Peter's text and this in Paul's is that we do submit.

The thing that you mentioned is unless it is a clear violation of Scripture, and that goes to Acts 529,

Peter, of course, responding to the council saying, we must obey God rather than men.

So there's not a contradiction there. It's the threshold of we obey

Christ. We obey what Scripture teaches us, regardless of the coming hostility.

And we've forgotten what sovereignty truly means. We don't understand that the call to be a disciple of Christ is to deny yourself, take up your cross, which means be willing to die and follow

Christ. We don't have an adequate theology of suffering that's being taught in the church right now, and then neither do we have nearly enough emphasis on he's coming back.

We are waiting on the return of the Lord. We have hope that goes well beyond what happens on a

Wednesday in Washington, D .C. Yeah, because it is about God's sovereignty. It is about the fact that Paul views the government as a minister of God.

Governments receive their authority from God to carry out punishment with the use of force.

And therefore, when a believer submits to the government, they are obeying to God. That's what you're saying. It's all about obedience to God.

We obey God, and part of obeying God is to be submitting to the government.

Although there was slavery, physical abuse, murder, immorality all dominated the Roman society and government, believers were told to submit to the civil authority because it was divinely ordained.

Believers must remember that God is in control in all situations. Christians should be obedient to God, which requires willing submission or willing submissive obedience to the government.

This type of obedience is what's due to the government from a child of God. So, let's try to conclude this and wrap this up, bud.

Christians must be civilly obedient, not civilly disobedient, except when authorities demand disobedience to God.

That's basically what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, when the Christians in the early church were told you must confess that Caesar is

God, Caesar is Lord, and they wouldn't do that, they were being obedient to God and not to violate what they knew was sinful.

They can't make that profession, and they suffered death for it. Take up your cross.

So, basically submission to the government is part of obedience to God then? Yes, absolutely it is.

And we don't think about it that way, because in America we could be independent, we have a voice, but submission to government is part of our obedience to God.

The focus for the Christian is God. This temporal life should not be viewed as if it's eternal.

This is the problem. We view this life as temporal, not eternal. We focus on eternity with God.

That's the idea behind striving for eternity. It is because we should be striving for that which is eternal.

That's where our focus is. That's what we fixate upon, not on the things of this world.

Yes, we're in this world, and we live in this world, and we want to try to do what is right to minister on God's behalf in this world, but it's all with the direction heading us toward eternity.

All human governments are corrupt. They are, because there's humans in them. Okay? But resistance to government often manifests itself in antagonism toward the very lost people that God has called

Christians to reach with the gospel. And this is the thing we need to emphasize.

So let me repeat it. Resistance to the government often manifests in antagonism toward the very lost people

God has called Christians to reach with the gospel. They are not your enemies, though they disagree with you politically.

And when the church emphasizes political activism and social reforming, it always diverts its energy and resources from the evangelism and discipleship it's actually called to do.

So this is, folks, when the church emphasizes political activism and social reform, it is always diverting energy and resources from the evangelism and the discipleship that it was called to do.

So you're not doing God's will, then, if you're trying to fight the government.

Very practically, just something Phil Johnson had preached a number of years ago, that we need to just recognize as evangelicals, as the church.

And he says this, political activism has been a disaster for the

American evangelical movement on every front. Not only have we completely failed at the political process, we have failed even more egregiously to remain distinct from the world.

That's it. What are we called to? We're not called to look like the world and mimic the world.

We're to be distinct and distinguished in holiness. And you need to let me read something else.

I've got another little paragraph, and it's from Joel Beakey. It's from his book called

Puritan Reform Theology. And this is what Christians need to understand. We have to have this mindset, not only of God's sovereignty and how we are to be faithful in the midst of these changing political times and governmental issues that we're going to face.

This is what we have to keep in mind. Beakey writes, And that is absolutely correct.

We are dangerous because of our humility, our repentance, our holiness, our purity, our righteousness.

Those are the things that make us salt and light, not what we've done favorably, nobly, or successfully at a ballot box and certainly never at a riot.

But Bud, they're going to be imprisoning us, and that's going to be the argument. But you know what? But the persecuted and imprisoned believer should be there for preaching righteousness, not defying government.

The persecuted and imprisoned believer should be there.

It should be in that state of imprisonment for preaching righteousness, not defiling government.

Christians need to be motivated toward God. I mean, during the Reformation, the Reformers taught people to read, not to better society.

They taught them to read so that they can read the Word of God. During the

Reformation, there were people who were taking, realizing as they would read the scriptures, they would take care of the poor, not because they had some feeling that we got to make society better.

They took care of the poor because they realized they had a responsibility to their fellow man, not because it was forced upon them by government, but because it was forced upon them by God's Word to take care of the widows and orphans.

The Reformers weren't attempting to improve culture, although they did. Their concern was first and foremost with the souls of people.

The Reformers were not attempting to improve culture. Their concern was with the souls of people.

That was their concern. What's our concern? Is it capitalism? Is that the concern?

Our businesses? Our jobs? Or is it eternity? What's our concern?

It's going to motivate how we're going to respond. Many Christians have become sidetracked with politics at the expense of their relationship with God.

Many, not just some, many Christians have become sidetracked with politics at the expense of their relationship with God.

Are you spending more time on social media and trying to find out the latest news and not spending time in your

Word of God? That's the question we have to realize. The adversary's desire to distract

Christians any way they can and be obsessed with politics accomplishes that goal.

Are you so obsessed with politics that you're becoming sidetracked, that you're not focused on the things of God, that your devotions have fallen away?

The Great Commission is not to make a better society. The Great Commission is not to make America great again.

The Great Commission in Matthew 28, 19 -20 hasn't changed. And it's not about you making a better government.

It is about making disciples. The language is to make a disciple as you go.

Every Christian's duty with others should be the goal of making disciples for Christ, not making a

Republican. The Christian should know the Christ message better than,

I said back then, Bush's message, but we could say Trump's message today. Otherwise, guess what?

Will they really be ready in season and out of season? By attempting to reform society using human means, degradates the sovereignty of God over government.

To use human means is a selfish pursuit. The result could create a false sense of morality.

The Christian political activism will result in creating a reputation of rabble -rousing, malcontents, and fostering hostility toward unbelievers that alienates them from the gospel of Christ.

The believer's political involvement should never displace the priority of preaching and teaching the gospel.

What is the temporal view of the Christian life that people get so active in political activism?

Because there's a lack of interest in the future kingdom and an overriding obsession with the here and now.

And Christians need to keep their focus on God and his kingdom in heaven and not try to make his kingdom here on earth.

God established governments, both good and the bad. He uses them for his glory, not ours.

Christians should vote. We have at least in America still an obligation,

I believe, to vote because it's something that we're given. We should vote. We should vote with whatever candidate most lines up with our values that can win.

And Christians should vote and understand the issues with the government, but never compromise the gospel or the testimony of Christ.

God's message must clearly be put forth. Only God will change culture in his time, by his method, one person at a time.

God changes culture by changing individual hearts toward him. You want to see the government change?

Share the gospel. And bud, that's right.