Q&A: Inviting Cults, Politics, Unsaved Rulers, Christian Vote, Lesser Magistrate, Judge & Discern, Nephilim

ThornCrown Covenant Baptist Church

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So this is our, I think, second or third, well, maybe a little more, but our second official question -and -answer service.

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We really think it's important to give you all the opportunity to ask questions as a church and to be able to give you the answers that you have been seeking or wanting to learn about and so that's why we're doing this and also, so I was talking to the brothers and they brought up some really good questions that I wanted to start out with.

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The first question was regarding Peter and that episode in the book of Acts that I quoted in the sermon that they thought that they were seeing his ghost, his spirit, and I I think it's, where is that, in Acts 12, yeah.

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Here it is, yeah. So in Acts 12, 7, it says that they they said, you're out of your mind, and she kept insisting, and then they kept saying, it is his angel.

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It is his angel. But Peter continued knocking and they were astounded when they saw that it was really him.

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So this was, this is really fun, like weird, like it is his angel, like I don't know what they were thinking, but they clearly weren't thinking straight, right?

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So they just, they were so shocked by the fact that Peter was actually rescued out of his situation because he was locked down.

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He was completely locked down, and they were just sort of flabbergasted that that he was actually set free.

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And so this is something that is just kind of like, they weren't thinking straight, right? So they clearly were not thinking straight.

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They weren't looking at things the right way. They were, it was, it was a form of like, it's a false reality, because they didn't perceive what was really going on, that Peter was actually there.

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He was actually set free. So it's kind of an important lesson for us as well, to make sure that we perceive things accurately with spiritual eyes, and not just with natural eyes.

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We need to look at what's really going on beneath the surface spiritually. So, and believe that God works miracles, amen?

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Like God still works supernaturally and powerfully in all that he does. So the other good question was regarding, because, you know,

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I was talking to the Jehovah's, the Mormons when they came to my door, and the one, the question was like, well, should you allow them in?

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Because in, where is that? In 2nd John, or it's in one of John's letters that it talks about how, do not receive them into your home if they do not come to you with the teaching of the

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Son. And so if somebody can find that, we can, we can read it.

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But the, why, so it says don't even welcome them or receive them into your home.

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And there's, it's like, okay, so should we not allow them into our house and like, you know, give them a glass of water, be hospitable?

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Like, do we not allow them, do we not do that? And really, the, what

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I believe was going on in that historical context was that, because in the early days of the early church, things were just getting started, and so people were meeting in homes.

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So they were having church and fellowshipping. Second, yeah, 2nd John 1 10. So we can go ahead and pull that up.

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Let's pull that up. So 2nd John, 2nd

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John 1 10. So verse 10 says, if anyone comes to you and does not bring to you this teaching, that Christ has come in the flesh, that is, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting.

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For the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds. So this is showing, basically, that the, the, the, the point of this exhortation or command is that we cannot affirm them.

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We cannot affirm what they're doing. So we have an obligation, like the

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Bible says in Ephesians 5, to expose the unfruitful works of darkness, to expose their false teaching, because they themselves are being deceived.

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And so we have an obligation not to just simply give them the right hand of fellowship and allow them into our home.

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It's not so much, it's not so much that we're allowing them into our home. It's the, the, it's affirming them, kind of like Peter did when he played the hypocrite with the, the

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Judaizers, and he sat and ate with them, and which was affirming their false teaching. So that was a behavioral inconsistency.

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You cannot have fellowship with them. That's the real admonishment, not to have fellowship with them.

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But when you, if you do invite them, and I didn't, I, I spoke to them outside of my house because I had to go back to work, but we, the point of the conversation should be to show them that they believe a lie, and that they're teaching a lie, and that they're being deceptive, and in a lot of cases, intentionally deceptive, by keeping things out that are more controversial, and making it sound like they're

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Christians. So, that's the important thing, is to expose their lies to them, and to hope that you plant a seed, that plant seeds, right?

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And hope that the Lord will use that to show them the real gospel, the real truth.

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That make sense? Yes. Yes, right.

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Exactly. Exactly. Many, many

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Antichrists, yes, have, have come. So, we have to be very careful, and it's, you know, and it's not just people who come to your door, because now we have technology, right?

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We have, what are you watching? The, the media, the news, the, the, whatever sermons, or lectures, or teachings that you're getting from, there, we have to be careful with all of that, and not agree with it, not have fellowship with it.

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Amen? So, good, good, very good questions. Any other questions? Any other questions that y 'all have?

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Don't be shy, feel free to just, it can be about anything. It doesn't have to be about the sermon, okay? Yes. No, we can do a stream.

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Yeah. Yes. Any, any more questions?

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Yes. Yes. Yes.

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Good question. Yes. So, the question is whether we should apply

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Matthew 7, Christ's warning in Matthew 7 against false prophets, and judging them by their fruit, and does it only apply to false prophets, or does it also apply to other professing believers in general?

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And this print, this, this principle is actually true of everybody. So, you can use this principle to, to, to reveal anybody, where anybody stands.

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So, when you want to judge somebody, say, even like, well, a

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Mormon, for example, or Jehovah's Witnesses, they're claiming to have, they're claiming to bring to you a teaching of a prophet, like Joseph Smith, or whatever, right?

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But, so that, we have an obligation to, to test, and to examine the fruit, what they, it's not just what they're, what they're, what they do.

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That's what people often miss. It's not just what they do, but also what they teach, and what their ministry, what their life, what impact does it have?

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Because you see that in a lot of respects, like, why do we, like, for example,

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Marxism, right? Karl Marx, communism, those, those views, not only do they blatantly contradict the scriptures, but their, their, the consequences of their impact in society has led to the most mass, the most massive number of murders than anything else in the history of the world, practically, apart from maybe the, the

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Roman Catholic persecution. But, that is how we judge. We have to judge doctrine, and this is what we're commanded to do with believers as well, right?

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We are commanded to examine ourselves, and to judge those who are within. We judge those who are within the church.

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We don't judge outsiders, because we know they're of the world, but we have to, we have to know that they're outsiders, and not allow their, the worldliness, and the ungodliness into the church.

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And so, we have an obligation to judge everybody in the church who professes to be a believer, and to examine them, to see if their life, and their fruit, their, their doctrine, and their lifestyle, their works, is consistent with their profession.

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Right? Because those who are saved by Christ will bear fruit.

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You will bear fruit. You will bear good fruit, and good works, and not that you'll be perfect, we will sin, still sin, but we will confess our sin, and repent, and reconcile, and all of those things that we are called to do in the

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Word. Right? So, it is important to, in the scriptures say, examine everything, scrutinize everything, test all things.

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Not just prophets. It's everything. We have to examine it. It's a lifestyle of discernment.

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Everything we have to scrutinize and test, like the Bereans did when they searched the scriptures daily. So, that's an obligation that we have as believers, and a lot of churches, they miss this.

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They seriously undermine or downplay the importance of discernment.

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It is a fundamental staple and ingredient of the Christian life. So, does that help?

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Make sense? Good question. Any other questions? Any other questions that y 'all have today?

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If not, we can go ahead and wrap up. Yes, yes. Right, right.

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Exactly, right. Very good question.

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That's a very good question. So, the question here is, okay, so we don't know if Trump is a believer.

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We don't know if Nayib Bukele is a believer, even though he said certain things about he prays to Jesus, or he believes in Jesus, but he doesn't affiliate with a religion, particular religion.

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And so, we He brought up Cyrus.

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Pagan rulers in the Bible that God also used to actually bring the Jews back and to restore their nation.

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And so, God uses everything, right? God uses everything, including pagan rulers and nations.

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Now, the key difference here, though, is that those rulers became rulers by some other system.

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They did not become rulers by being voted for, by being voted in. And so, we have a more careful obligation to vote or not vote for someone.

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That is a moral decision that is going to have consequences. So, when we vote for somebody, we have to be responsible with what we're voting for, because we cannot vote for evil agendas that are going to bring harm or danger, wickedness, which rules out the

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Democratic Party, basically. Because it's corrupt. It's evil. So, we have an obligation to discern whether we should vote and who to vote for based on those biblical principles.

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So, in a circumstance like with Trump, what I've come to understand, my view, is that we can vote for somebody who is not necessarily believer as long as insofar as they uphold the moral law.

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If they uphold the moral law, then, and they are going to give the church an opportunity to function as the church in society and not try to persecute it, then

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I would say it's acceptable. It's okay to vote for somebody like that. And that's basically what you got from Trump.

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He helped the church. He didn't try to persecute the church or go after it. And he tried, in many ways, he tried to uphold the moral law.

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And so, that's where you have to watch out for is, are they trying to advocate breaking the moral law, like abortion, right?

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Or theft, like this lawlessness of defunding police and these ungodly agendas of breaking down law and order.

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Illegal immigration, right? Those things are going against the moral law.

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But if they advocate the moral law, and if they advocate for the freedom for the church to operate as a church, then

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I would say it's okay. It's okay to vote for somebody like that. But we have to be careful that we are vetting their agendas carefully, right?

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Because they might, there might be something that is just, it makes it prohibitive.

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So, we have to be careful where we draw the line. So, and in certain cases, if you don't feel comfortable voting for somebody like Trump or, you know, for a

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Republican, then that's fine. Then don't vote for them. You have to vote according to your conscience as well, right?

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But at the same time, we have to not be hypocritical. And, and like Piper, John Piper did this.

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He, he was calling out Trump practically more than he was calling out the Democrats. And it's like, okay, why are you saying he's like the, the root of all evil, when you see clearly the

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Democratic agenda, and they're trying to tear him down. They're trying to tear him down ruthlessly, like the devils that they are.

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Right? So, that's where we have those discussions. We have discussions, and we try to flesh things out and see what's really going on with these folks, and what agendas are they trying to push.

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And are their agendas trying to enforce law and order, and the freedom for the church to function as the church, to give us the freedom to do those things, like the

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First Amendment, the Second Amendment, and to defend ourselves as well. That's upholding our laws that have been established as the law and order of our nation.

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Do they go for the Constitution or against it? These are principles we can use, because God uses the government in order to execute his will, to punish evildoers.

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So God has given authority through the governing system, and that's why it's important to also recognize that.

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And, but that system needs to be operating and preserving law and order, and the moral law.

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Because if it doesn't, then you get with what the Apostle said. It said, you judge for yourself whether we should obey

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God rather than men. There may come a point where we can't bow, and we, like Daniel, where we have to bow not to men, their agenda, but to God instead.

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Right? So we have to draw the line. There is a line that cannot be crossed, and that's really the moral law.

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The moral law cannot be crossed. Right? So does that help a little bit? But that's a very good point.

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Very good. Yes. So another good question is, do we as believers have an obligation to vote?

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We have it. What we have an obligation to do is we are obligated to live quiet and peaceable lives, to pray for our rulers.

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We are obligated to pray for them. We are not obligated to vote for them. But if we do vote for them, we are, now part of this is how we operate as lesser magistrates.

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Because in a sense, we have an obligation to ensure that our government is operating within its bounds and within the moral law.

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Right? So the Constitution gives us the power to vote, and so that power to vote is used to regulate government, to elect officials who will enforce biblical principles of government and moral law.

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So we do have a responsibility that we've been given to participate in that system, to promote elected officials that will do those things biblically, that will promote moral law, law and order, the freedom for the church to operate as a church.

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So those are important things to do, but we have to also recognize whether, if we're not comfortable voting for anybody, then we also have an obligation in some respects not to vote.

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We don't always have to vote. But we have to do it responsibly. We have to do it well -informed and to judge righteously just like Jesus said, right?

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We cannot be deceived by these agendas that are being pushed by the news and the media and all this lies being pushed by one party over another party and all this stuff.

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Those lies, we need to cut through the fog, through the propaganda, and make sure that we really know what's going on.

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And so that's what the church is also for. We're here to sharpen each other and to help each other out and to say, hey, yeah, you know what?

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This guy does seem a lot more sound. He seems to be promoting the right things and law and order and decency and all that stuff.

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And you know, generally speaking, the Republican Party is in favor of those biblical principles. Now, do all of them do that?

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No. Are some of them hypocrites? Yes. So we have to be careful and we have to call them out.

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We have to expose them when they're not doing those things, just like the

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John the Baptist did to Herod, right? So because we are lesser magistrates, we do have authority.

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We have the authority and the opportunity to vote and to regulate our government through voting.

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Just like locally, it's important to vote locally too, because if people are trying to push ungodly agendas or promote abortion or these socialistic, communistic policies of taxing you, property taxing you to death, it's good for us to vote against those things, right?

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So it is good and important to do those things responsibly as believers and to not simply advocate our responsibility like the pietists do, because that's a form of pietism of, oh, well, you know,

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I don't really care about what's going on here. It's, I just focus on my prayer life and my quiet time with God.

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It's like, no, you, we have to live in this world. We have to interact in this world and we have to take opportunities.

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We should take opportunities where we can, just like the Apostle Paul did. When the

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Roman government came after him unrighteous, unjustly, he called them out, remember?

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He called them out and he said, you need to walk me out when I leave so that people can see that you are the one who did wrong, not me.

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So he took advantage of his rights as a Roman citizen and he said, you are wrong.

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You need to make it right and walk me out, even though he wasn't a believer, right? So we do have that opportunity, that authority as Americans, right?

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So that's very, very good questions. Very, because it's, we're on, election are coming up, right?

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Big elections coming up. So it's important to make sure that we're thinking through this biblically and carefully, right?

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Excellent questions. Any other questions? Anything else before we close?

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Yeah. Very good question.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yes, so separation of, the question is about separation of church and state.

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Is that biblical? Now, I do believe that the separation of church and state is a biblical concept.

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It doesn't mean what the Democrats make it to mean or what some people confuse it to mean. Separation of church and state means separation of state from the church.

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It means that the state, the government, has no business meddling with the church.

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That's what it means. Separation of the state from the church. Because the founders did not, did not say that religion needs to be completely separated from the government.

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They put stuff on their money and in the paper, in God we trust, right? It's not that they were against religion influencing the public sphere in government.

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That's not what they were saying. They were saying the government cannot control religion.

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It cannot establish a government, the state religion, it doesn't have the authority to do that in America.

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And that's biblical. The state should not be establishing a church like the

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Anglican Church or like many churches before, the church before that.

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So a state church is unbiblical because the state is not, it's not the head of the church.

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They are not an officer of the church, only ordained ministers of the gospel. Pastors and teachers and elders are the under -shepherds of the church.

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And Christ is the head of the church, right? So a state church is unbiblical because the government is not our head.

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We have to respect the government, but they do not tell us what to do in church. They cannot tell us what to do as a church, and they should not be establishing religion, a religion or a church.

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That's what the... Right, exactly, exactly. So that's what the

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First Amendment guarantees. And the problem we have today is the church has become 501c3 corporations, they become nonprofit corporations, and they become creatures of the state.

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And they become subject to state law, and now they have to be governed by the state. They have to have a board of elders.

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They have to have a treasurer. They have to have board meetings every quarter, and they are subjecting themselves to the state when they shouldn't be.

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That's not what the founders intended. That's what the... that's why the First Amendment is so important.

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It's because we have the freedom to exercise our religion as a church and not have the government try to control us.

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Through these... through these hush money, because now if you become a corporation, you're not allowed to speak out against elective officials.

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You're not allowed to speak out for or against any candidates for public office. And that's unbiblical.

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Right, so that's very important to properly understand. These are things that we have to be talking about in the church, so that we can operate biblically within our parameters and our legal...

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legally established parameters as an American people, citizens in the government.

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We're not just, you know, we're living in society, and Paul admonishes us to live peaceably with all men.

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Part of how we live peaceably with all men is to vote responsibly for policies that will help to benefit society and not make it worse.

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Right? That's very important. So good, very, very good questions. Any other questions?

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Before we wrap up. Excellent, excellent questions. Yes, sister. Right, right, exactly.

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Michael Heiser, he's got some good stuff about this, and the Nephilim are the offspring of the union, the sexual union between fallen watchers

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They're angels, but they're really... they're called watchers in Daniel 4 and other places. They're high -ranking angels.

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These fallen watchers abandoned their heavenly role, bodies, and everything to impregnate women and create the hybrid race of giants, which then

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Jude talks about and 2nd Peter talks about. They were judged by the flood, wiped out by the flood, and their spirits remained on the earth, which are now demons.

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That's the difference between fallen watchers, because the fallen watchers, they're locked up in Tartarus, in judgment, in gloomy darkness, right?

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So that's what Peter talks about, Jude, and the book of Enoch, right? So they are different from the demons that we now deal with today.

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Those demons we have to fight against. So that's very important to make the proper distinctions, because they are different, and they operate differently.

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And the watchers have bodies. That's why they were able to do what they did. But demons don't.

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Demons are unembodied spirits. That's why they're always trying to possess people. They're trying to get in a body, and they don't...

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they try to destroy it, and then move on to the next one. So that's very important to understand properly, to do spiritual warfare.

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Yes. Right, yes, right, right.

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That's an important question regarding suicide, and whether is it possible for Christians to be suicidal, or is that more indicative of them not being a believer?

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Now, you have to take in totality their life and their doctrine, so you have to sort of take the totality of what they reflect, what they believe, what they confess, what they profess, and what they do.

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Now, suicide is an indication that, yes, they may not be believers. It may also be an indication that they are under spiritual attack.

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Because the president of the Voice of the Martyrs, the former president of the Voice of the Martyrs, he jumped off a building and killed himself.

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And so, I don't know exactly what happened, but he may have had some spiritual attacking going on.

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I don't know, but believers can be attacked. Obviously, we can be attacked, and it can lead to, it can even lead to suicide if we're not careful.

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And so, we have to be careful, because it is possible. It is possible to fall prey to the devil's devices, just like Tyndale, right?

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Yeah, it's we have to, we have to, yes, you can, you can, you can backslide, kind of like King David, right?

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King David committed adultery and all this stuff, and murdered her husband, and you can be in a state of unrepentant sin for a season, but it will only be for a season.

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God will eventually, you will have, you will eventually repent. You have to repent. Otherwise, if you, you may be a believer, but God might take you out.

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Like Ananias and Sapphira. Some, some debate whether Ananias and Sapphira were believers or not, but, you know, it could, you could possibly say, like, well, they sinned very grievously, and so God took them out.

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He, he judged them temporally, and took them out, even though they may have been believers. But they lied to the

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Holy Spirit, and wanted to keep the, the, the money that they sold, and that they said they were going to pledge to the church.

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But, you know, so we have to be careful. It's possible, right? It's possible.

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Yes. Oh, yeah.

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Yeah, so was, was God, there's an episode in the

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Old Testament where God was going to kill Moses, because he didn't circumcise either himself or his son, and there's some debate as to whether it's his son or him, but yeah,

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God would, God would judge you if you didn't keep his laws, his covenants, and the Old Covenant was, you were obligated through the

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Abrahamic Covenant to circumcise all the male children on the eighth day. So we have to, and if you didn't, even

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Moses would be put to death. So we, you, like, God is very serious about sin, and he might take you out if you're not careful.

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Yes. Right, right.

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Yes. Exactly. It doesn't mean Moses was not a believer, that he wasn't justified by faith through Christ.

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Yeah, but yes, there are consequences for your actions, and if you disobey God's ordinances and laws, it could lead to death.

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That's, that's exactly right. Yeah. Okay, very good questions, y 'all. Let's wrap, we'll wrap it up for today, and let's close out in prayer again.

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Our gracious Lord, we thank you, Father, for the opportunity to fellowship and to discuss your word and sound doctrine as a people.

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We thank you, Father. We ask that you help us to apply these things in our lives and to continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our

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Lord and Savior as individuals and as a church, Lord, and to be salt and light to our, our friends, our family, our co -workers, our neighbors, and even our enemies,

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Lord. Help us to be salt and light and to shine the light of Christ, the light of truth, and to bring the gospel to the unbelieving world and to our neighbors,

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Lord. We thank you, Father God, and we ask these things in Jesus' almighty name. Amen. Thank you for listening to the sermons of Thorn Crown Covenant Baptist Church, where the

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Bible alone and the Bible in its entirety has applied to all of faith and life. We strive to be biblical, reformed, historic, confessional, loving, discerning

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Christians who evangelize, stand firm in, and earnestly contend for the Christian faith.

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If you're looking for a church in the El Paso, Texas area, or for more information about our church, sermons, and ministries, such as Semper Ephraim on the radio and Thorn Crown Network podcast, please contact us at thorncrownministries .com,