October 18, 2019 Show with Dr. John McKnight on “One Christian’s Journey from Wesleyan Arminianism to Calvinism Guided by the Holy Scriptures & the Holy Spirit Alone”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 18th day of October 2019.

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And after meeting this brother in Christ at a retirement party, a brother who was a friend and a guest on this program who had retired from the pastoral ministry at the

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Malvern Free Presbyterian Church in Pennsylvania, that was a number of years ago, and I met this brother at that party, that retirement party, and I just said to myself,

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I've got to get this brother on my program. I was so fascinated and blessed and edified and impressed by this brother during our conversation, and I'm just thanking the

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Lord that this opportunity has now arisen, and he is our guest today. I am speaking of Dr.

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John McKnight. He is a conference speaker, and he is the pastor of Reformation Bible Church of Darlington, Maryland.

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Today we are going to be addressing his journey from Wesleyan Arminianism into Calvinism, guided by the

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Holy Scriptures and the Holy Spirit alone. We're also going to be discussing the 78th

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Annual Convention of the American Council of Christian Churches, which is being held next

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Tuesday through Thursday here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania at Faith Chapel, and that's going to be on the theme

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Biblical Fundamentalism Pursuing Purity. But first of all, it's my honor and privilege to welcome you to Iron Trip and Zion Radio for the very first time,

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Dr. John McKnight. Thank you, Chris. It is a pleasure and blessing to be with you today.

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I'm grateful for the opportunity. Amen. Well, first of all, before we get into your personal testimony and your journey from Wesleyan Arminianism into Calvinism, please tell our listeners something about Reformation Bible Church of Darlington, Maryland.

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Reformation Bible Church is an independent Bible church that has its roots in the

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Evangelical Methodist Churches of America, which is a small fundamentalist denomination of Bible -believing

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Methodists who, through the years, separated from the growing apostasy in the

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United Methodist Church. And so those were the roots of this congregation.

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My father was the founding pastor back in 1952. He was a farmer here in the area and a

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Sunday school teacher in a Methodist church and began to discern the Sunday school literature going off the rails theologically and learned more about what was happening through some of the outspoken leading fundamentalists of that era.

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And the consequence was eventually the establishment of this congregation. And the

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Lord used him here in some mighty and wonderful ways to establish a church and a

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Christian school that continues today. We have come to more of a

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Reformed understanding of the doctrines of salvation. And the Lord has given us a wonderful fellowship and opportunities for service in the community and different parts of the world.

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So I have been here a total of 34 years, seven years as an associate with my father back in the 80s.

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And then I pastored in South Carolina for five and a half years and returned here as senior pastor in 1992.

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Well, did your dad follow your journey as well into Reformed theology or Calvinism as it is nicknamed?

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Well, I don't know yet. I'll find out when we get to heaven. Well, you know he has now.

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Yes. Well, I'll put it this way. My father throughout his life in the,

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I think, commendable spirit of historic Methodism was very tolerant to work with brethren of different theological understandings and not to compromise with those who are openly disobedient to the scripture or disregarding its clear commands.

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But just as Wesley and Whitfield had a relationship and were in many cases, we'll say, under the same umbrella, my father could work with others from different persuasions.

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In fact, one of the most influential men in my father's life was Dr. Carl McIntyre, who was a

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Bible Presbyterian. And though my father never openly came to confess embracing the doctrines of grace, he knew where I had come and wanted me as his successor in this pulpit and in God's good providence and by an amazing confirmation.

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The Lord called me here one year after my father's very unexpected death at age 66.

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And I'm told that at the time of his death he was reading through Pink's Sovereignty of God, which is a good sign for anyone.

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Yes, in fact, it's actually... I have spoken, I don't even know how many, but I've definitely spoken with a number of Reformed brethren who actually became

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Reformed, obviously through the Holy Spirit, but the human instrument was that very book,

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A .W. Pink's book on the Sovereignty of God. Yes. So my father, through his ministry here, establishing and building this church, had close communications with the

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Bible Presbyterians through the American Council of Christian Churches. He was an evangelical

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Methodist, but the evangelical Methodist denomination was not a strict theological position.

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And my father was always open to anyone who truly believed the

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Scripture and would earnestly contend for the faith. And so that was the legacy he left here, which

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I trust will always be sustained by this congregation. And at this point it is with more of a

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Reformed soteriology than what it may have been then. But my father was a very interesting and able man.

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In fact, at the coming convention of the American Council of Christian Churches they've asked me to provide a breakout session on my father's life.

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And although he was not an Ian Paisley or a Carl MacIntyre, I think he was a very good snapshot of what the true fundamentalists were and are.

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And so he stood here strongly opposing any false teaching that may come through, opposing efforts of the government to intervene into the ministry of Christian schools.

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He was a strong advocate for Christian education in Annapolis with our state government.

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But his ministry, I think, was influenced most by Carl MacIntyre through the

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Christian Beacon and his exposing false teachers. John R.

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Rice and his revivalism was certainly a part of my father's ministry.

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Both of those have been preached here. And the evangelist Oliver B. Green out of Greenville, South Carolina, a tent evangelist who was quite a pulpiteer.

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Those are people that were influential, I think, in my father's study and development for the ministry.

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He never attended seminary, but was a graduate of Philadelphia Bible Institute when it was a three -year

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Bible Institute program. And God used him in this place in an amazing, wonderful way.

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Praise God. And when your dad was pastoring the church that you are now pastoring, was it called back then

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Reformation Bible Church? No, it was Evangelical Methodist Church and continued with the

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Evangelical Methodist denomination until 2014. And at that point, there was a parting of ways.

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Okay. And, well, oh yeah, one thing I wanted to ask you is because of the fact that, as you are fully aware, the

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Reformed camp, if you will, within Christendom has differences of opinion on baptism, among other things.

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Would Reformation Bible Church be baptistic, or would it be a paedo -baptist congregation? Our position continues the position we've held as an

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Evangelical Methodist congregation. We will baptize by any mode that the candidate for baptism desires.

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Personally, I do not baptize babies, but I am not going to go to war with a brother who does, or with someone who desires that, if that's their conviction, that is between them and the

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Lord. I don't see that in the New Testament, which is why I'll not perform it. But I will not hesitate to have one of my

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Presbyterian brethren come in for a special Sunday afternoon service to baptize an infant if the parents desire that.

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In my 27 years here as Senior Pastor, that's happened once.

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That sounds very much like the policy of the denomination, the Free Presbyterian Church of North America and Ulster.

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Yes, yes indeed. And in fact, as I mentioned yesterday, my dear friend

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Peter Jeffrey, who is now in Heaven for eternity with Christ, he pastored

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Sanfields in Port Talbot, Wales, which was the first congregation that Dr.

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Martin Lloyd -Jones pastored. And they had the same policy as well. They had members of both a paedo -baptist and a baptistic conviction.

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Peter himself was baptistic, but they would have someone who believed in paedo -baptism, a minister such as a

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Presbyterian, baptize an infant for a couple if they desired that.

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Yes. And by the way, folks, if you want to find out more about the

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Reformation Bible Church of Darlington, Maryland, if you want to look that up after this program is over, you can go to ReformationBibleChurch .org

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ReformationBibleChurch .org Very easy to remember. And hopefully we'll be repeating that towards the end of the program.

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Well, we are, as I said, discussing not only your testimony, but we are also announcing to our listeners the 78th

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Annual Convention of the American Council of Christian Churches to be held here next week, Tuesday through Thursday, at Faith Chapel in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, on the theme

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Biblical Fundamentalism Pursuing Purity. If you could tell us about this conference, and I know you already said that you are going to be paying tribute to your own father during a breakout session, but what else can you tell us about this conference?

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Well, I've found the American Council of Christian Churches as an organization to be one of the few organizations that is very open to persons of my conviction in terms of soteriology.

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Many of the fundamentalist brethren are very, shall I say, exclusively

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Baptistic in the Independent Fundamental Baptist form. And sadly, very often, and very tragically, vehemently anti -Calvinist.

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Not always, but very often. Yes. Indeed, it is often the case, and because of that, a person with my convictions would often be viewed as somewhat heretical, at least badly skewed, if not absolutely heretical.

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But not so in the American Council of Christian Churches, and there are fundamental Baptist men who are a part of the

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Council who are most gracious and winsome in being open to various interpretations that are not considered outside the bounds of historic

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Christian orthodoxy. And that's one of the things about the American Council, which would distinguish it from denominations.

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It is not a denomination at all. It is simply a council of churches and people who endeavor to stand earnestly for the inerrancy and infallibility of the

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Scripture and the doctrines of historic Christianity. But as such, they agree, for the sake of that union, not to bring their denominational distinctives into the scene for a, how shall

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I say it, a strong defense or propagation of them. We know that we differ among ourselves.

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Bible Presbyterians, Free Presbyterians, Evangelical Methodists, Fundamental Baptists, Independent Bible Churches, those who are a part of the

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Council, we know that we have differences and recognize the great value of fraternity with brethren of differing understandings who are yet one in the faith and one in their adherence to the inerrant

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Word of God. And that's what the Council provides for us and stands for in this age.

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So, in coming into the Council in an active role back in 1992, it was one of the fundamentalist bodies that would receive me without looking a little askance, if I can put it that way.

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I appreciate that openness that was received there.

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I mean, at the time, I was an Evangelical Methodist pastor and a

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Calvinistic pastor and a Fundamentalist pastor, and those are three things that many times don't mix.

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But that's kind of where I was, and they were happy to fellowship with me with that understanding.

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And, of course, that's ironic that there would be such vehement hatred on occasions amongst our

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Fundamentalist brethren against Calvinism, when many of the key figures during the

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Fundamentalist -Modernist controversy in the earlier 20th century were themselves

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Calvinists. So it is kind of interesting how there can be such bitterness and anger.

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I mean, of course, there are independent Fundamentalists who are

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Calvinists, and there are those that are tolerant of it and not hateful toward it, but you do have that extreme element within them.

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In fact, you have an extreme element within them that would even oppose the existence of something like the

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American Council of Christian Churches. There are some that take independence to such an extreme that they don't want to be associated with any kind of a fraternal or fellowship of churches that even smacks in any way of being a denomination.

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If you could tell our Fundamentalist listeners why they can be rest assured that the

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American Council of Christian Churches is something that they should not oppose, and that this does not violate the independent autonomy of the local church.

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Yes, that's the exact thing. The American Council of Christian Churches does not issue any directives to its members.

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It issues annual resolutions on various issues which are resolutions that anyone from any denominational identity who believes in the inspiration, authority, and inerrancy of Scripture and applies that belief to daily life, anyone who does so can embrace and affirm the resolutions of the council.

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It serves as a platform to proclaim what many of us in different parts of the country believe, but have no platform from which to proclaim it.

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The council does, but in doing so it does not require of its members any submission to orders from the top to conduct or believe in a certain way.

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No one sacrifices any of his distinctives by coming into the council unless his distinctive is to be absolutely exclusively alone from everybody, and that's another issue.

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I can recall some years ago when I was an officer in the council visiting pastors on the

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West Coast whose churches were on the mailing list of the council, just trying to make contact with them.

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I visited with one in particular, and as soon as I told him where I was from he said, all councils are evil.

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That's where the trouble in church history has come from. That was just about the end of the visit on his terms and wishes.

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It's sad when that circumstance arises. Ironically, the councils were mainly formed to combat and eradicate heresy.

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Yes, exactly. That's the American Council.

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I appreciate it very much. I am always challenged and edified, and quite frankly, the last few years as I've attended meetings of the council,

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I think the preaching has been some of the strongest and clearest I've ever heard coming from the council.

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I have left refreshed and edified, both by the preaching and by the camaraderie of men who want to serve the

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Lord and are humbly given to the fear of God. Amen. Well, just to give our listeners a bit more information about this event, next

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Tuesday through Thursday in Carlisle, Pennsylvania at Faith Chapel. The event begins on Tuesday at 7 p .m.

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with a very interesting title. I'm dying to find out what this message is actually about in more detail, but the theme is

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The Battle Royale, Biblical Fundamentalism, and Rev. Dan Greenfield is going to be delivering that message, and I received word from Dan that he's looking forward to being on Iron Sherp and Zion Radio sometime after the conference.

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He could not fit us into his schedule beforehand, but we're looking forward to interviewing Dan, God willing, in the near future.

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And then there are messages such as on Wednesday, God Would Raise Up New Generations of Fundamentalists, delivered by Rev.

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Cliff Hawthorne. Knowing Our History, Biblical Fundamentalism's Past, which will be delivered by Dr.

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Kevin Hobie. Is it Hobie or Hobie? Hobie. Hobie. Kevin Hobie. And then we have

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Has the Battle Ended? Biblical Fundamentalism's Present and Future by Dr. Chick Deere, who pastors right here in Pennsylvania and Philadelphia.

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And our guest today, Dr. John McKnight. One of his messages is

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The Fundamentalists' Perils. And then we have coming up on the final day of the event,

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Rev. Brad Rider, who's going to be speaking on Abandoning Self to Please a Holy God.

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And Rev. Mark Turner, or John Turner, I'm sorry, Rev. John Mark Turner, is going to be speaking on The Basis of Biblical Fundamentalism, Holiness.

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And then Dr. Paul Elliott will be speaking on Unsung Heroes, Fundamentalism's Needs.

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And then The Desire of Biblical Fundamentalism, Purity and Revival by Rev.

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David Mook, who pastors a free Presbyterian church in Phoenix, Arizona.

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And then there's going to be breakout sessions which each pay tribute to a hero of the faith within the fundamentalist movement,

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Stephen Hamilton, who was our guest yesterday, one of our guests yesterday. He's actually going to be speaking on The Claim of Homosexual Celibate Christianity.

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And then Dan Greenfield, again, he's going to be speaking on Do Our Associations in Ministry and Pulpit Sharing Matter?

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And then the tributes are going to be paid to the great heroes of the fundamentalist movement, such as Bob Jones Sr.,

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who will be given tribute by Jonathan Peters. Bob Jones Jr., who will be given tribute by John Mark Turner.

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Carl McIntyre, who we were just mentioning earlier. My friend Brad Zell, who was also a guest yesterday on the program.

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He's going to be paying tribute to Dr. McIntyre. Robert T. Ketchum will be the subject of a tribute by Dan Greenfield.

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The very controversial Ian Paisley will be given tribute by Ronald Cook. J. Gresham Machen, a very beloved figure that Reformed Baptists and Presbyterians both join in admiring in a great degree.

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J. Gresham Machen, one of the pillars of the fundamentalist -modernist controversy on the fundamentalist side, of course.

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He is going to be given tribute by Paul Elliott. W .B. Riley will be given tribute by Kevin Hovey.

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William and John Ashbrook will be given tribute by Stephen Spence. As we said earlier,

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Don McKnight, the father of my guest today, John McKnight, will be given tribute by my guest,

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John. And Chick Deer will be paying tribute to Ralph Koloss.

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So, if anybody wants more information on how they can attend this conference, all you have to do is go to the website of the

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American Council of Christian Churches, and that website is accc the number 4 truth .org.

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That's accc the number 4 truth .org and then forward slash 2019 dash convention.

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That will bring you right to the details on this conference. And we'll be,

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God willing, repeating this information later on. So, now we have to go to our first break, and when we return

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I want you to give us more detail about your personal journey from Wesleyan Arminianism into what has been nicknamed

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Calvinism and has been nicknamed the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace and has been nicknamed the

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Doctrines of Free Grace and has been nicknamed the Doctrines of Reform Theology or Reformation Theology. We'll find out more about that when we return.

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And if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail dot com

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And as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go is

38:38

Dr. John McKnight a pastor of Reformation Bible Church in Darlington, Maryland and also one of the speakers at a conference where I will be attending,

38:48

God willing, next Tuesday through Thursday right here in my new hometown of Carlisle, Pennsylvania at Faith Chapel in Carlisle, Pennsylvania That's the

39:00

American Council of Christian Churches 2019 convention. And once again for more details on that conference go to acccthenumberfortruth .org

39:14

acccthenumberfortruth .org acccthenumberfortruth .org and then that's forward slash 2019 -convention

39:21

And we'll be repeating that information throughout the program and our email address if you'd like to join us on the air with a question on Dr.

39:31

John McKnight's Journey from Wesleyan Arminianism to Calvinism Guided by the

39:37

Holy Scriptures and the Holy Spirit alone. Our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com

39:42

Ch r is a r n z e n at gmail .com Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the

39:51

USA by the way, brother before I even have you begin to give us more details about your your

40:00

Testimony, we have greetings being given to you from an old schoolmate of yours

40:06

Who hasn't seen you? I don't know what school he's talking about if he's talking about seminary or Bible College about his name is

40:15

Fred Zaspel he happens to be an old friend of mine as well and Fred's up Fred Zaspel is on the pastoral

40:24

Team at the Reformed Baptist Church of Franconia, Pennsylvania Which is actually located specifically in Telford Pennsylvania and he sends his greetings and wanted me to pass on your email address to him so he can get back in touch with you

40:41

Yes, well my greetings as well to Fred Zaspel We did meet years ago as students at Bob Jones University in Greenville, South Carolina, and I think then

40:53

Since college our next meeting and the only meeting if I'm not mistaken was uh, we've met up at a banner truth conference there in I believe it was in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania and It's always a delightful meeting

41:09

When I find an old acquaintance from years past who is there at that conference? That means something amen, and by the way folks.

41:17

I'd like to give plugs to good churches Especially when providentially a pastor from that church sends in an email to this program, but the website for the

41:29

Reformed Baptist Church of Franconia, Pennsylvania is rbcfranconia .org

41:37

rbcfranconia and that's spelt f -r -a -n -c -o -n -i -a org rbcfranconia .org

41:45

Uh, well, let's pick up where we left off. You already said that you had been raised in an evangelical

41:52

Methodist home with an evangelical Methodist father who was a pastor.

41:58

Tell us from there how you first began to hear about Those doctrines that have been nicknamed

42:06

Calvinism or Reformed theology or the doctrines of sovereign grace or the doctrines of free grace Tell us about that Well, I'm happy to do so and it's always delightful to speak about these things and I can't speak about them without speaking of my conversion too, so I Eager to do that, but I guess

42:26

I have to say it all starts in that I was born in Hebride Grace, Maryland, which is a small town located right at the point where the

42:37

Susquehanna River empties into the Chesapeake Bay and Nothing spectacular about being born there, but I make that point

42:46

In order to stress that I was not born in Xi 'an China or in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia Where I would likely live my entire life and never hear the gospel never hear of Christ's atoning death

43:00

Never have a Bible. I wasn't born there I was born in Hebride Grace, Maryland the

43:06

United States of America where I would have all of those things Now I didn't get to pick the place where I was born

43:13

Nobody does that is of God's sovereign ordination He placed me there instead of in China or North Korea or Saudi Arabia and that has made all the difference in whether I would ever have the gospel or not and That that continues to amaze me the recognition that God Sovereignly Places people where they are born on earth.

43:44

It is all of him Many of them they are placed in a land

43:50

Throughout history. It's been the case in a land and culture where they will not have the truth the fact that he did to me the vast favor of Putting me in a place where I could hear the gospel cannot be

44:07

Overlooked or excluded from the call it equation by which

44:12

I came to understand the gospel and This is something that I'm always eager to share with my brethren who may not see the doctrines of grace the fact that God sovereignly places every human being where they are born and that event in many many cases determines whether they'll hear the gospel or not and that brings us to the fact that God is in Full control sovereignly

44:52

Dispensing the gospel where he is pleased to do so Um, I think of the passage there in Acts 16 where the

45:01

Apostle Paul would have gone Eastward but the Holy Spirit forbade them to do so and sent them westward instead and that has made all the difference in the history of humanity and It also has made

45:19

All the difference in the fact that there is one part of humanity that has received the gospel and another part that did not receive the gospel

45:33

So when I was born into the USA It was the placement by God Into a context where I would hear the gospel and it's and it's free preaching he placed me in the home of a fundamentalist pastor, and so I grew up hearing the gospel of Christ and Was told that when

45:58

I was four years old I Responded to an altar call and Was born again at that point

46:07

Time would confirm to me that my regeneration Actually did not take place until I was in college, but that's that's further on in the story as a teenage boy and younger

46:23

Full of himself and fun -loving and as mischievous as they come How many times did

46:31

I in my bed call out out of fear that I would get caught for what I had done that day and Punished severely for it.

46:38

I call out to God to to save me if it didn't work the last time Do it this time and that's kind of the way

46:46

I came up. I was once exposed to What was called?

46:53

Calvinism I had no idea what it was and In reality, it was not an exposure to the doctrines that are called

47:02

Calvinism but an exposure to a controversy aroused against a

47:09

Presbyterian minister who was also the administrator of our Christian school and This was an evangelical

47:17

Methodist congregation with a Presbyterian administrator of its Christian school, that's the

47:23

Openness and cooperativeness that characterized my upbringing theologically and some

47:32

Some others from outside the school made accusation against the principle that he was

47:38

Forcing Calvinism on students. I was in his class Never heard that Had no idea what it was.

47:46

It had to be explained to me what they were saying and That was my first introduction to Calvinism and I certainly did not buy into that did not embrace it at all and left to Left to one's own imagination.

48:01

He will always I believe tend toward free will ism Everyone is born under the innate deception

48:14

That he can do something to win God's favor and that he must do something to win

48:19

God's favor and That is the root explanation for the countless religions around the world

48:25

Men thinking they can and will do something to win the favor of God not realizing that God's favor is freely dispensed as He chooses to and sovereignly dispensed so that that was my

48:42

My childhood Theological experience if I can put it that way

48:49

I Knew when I was in the 11th grade of high school that I was to be a preacher.

48:55

I had known that from earlier years and so I went away to college after graduation from high school to major in Bible and I Would profess faith in Christ no question at all about that.

49:14

No doubts I knew I was saved but the thing is I wasn't saved and in my second year of college attending

49:24

Bob June's University, I Suddenly began to be overcome with doubts not doubts about salvation but This is the way

49:33

I was thinking There are six billion people on earth, that's how many we were told were on earth at that time

49:40

Six billion people and do you mean to tell me? That there is one being

49:47

Who knows the number of hairs on the heads of every one of those people? That is just too fantastic that is too

49:58

Fairy -tale ish and that's where my thoughts were going to the point that I found myself in Unbelief and not an unbelief that I had consciously decided upon But suddenly

50:13

I'm an unconfessed atheist majoring in Bible at Bob June's University Known known to my congregation that way that I grew up with to be a student studying for the ministry and here

50:27

I am not even Convinced that God exists and I'm proud to tell anybody about it and Many things were were going on in my mind and I was struggling with the hypocrisy of the situation that I was known as something that in my heart of hearts now,

50:50

I knew I wasn't and I did begin praying earnestly.

50:55

God if you exist reveal yourself to me and it wasn't happening and Finally one rainy cold

51:05

February Sunday afternoon in Greenville. I Decided I would go speak with The man who was reputed to be the most advanced

51:16

Bible scholar on campus. Dr. Stuart Custer. He was also an avid student of astronomy and each

51:24

Sunday afternoon, he gave a planetarium lecture in the

51:30

University Science Building and its planetarium and I just figured if He doesn't have an answer for me.

51:38

Then there is no answer and I'll just have to forget it all and go my way and so I went to him and Stayed around after the lecture

51:52

I didn't want anybody to see me or hear what I was saying to him and once the planetarium was empty

51:58

I told him what I've just told you concerning my experience and he merely came back at me immediately quoting two verses of scripture from Isaiah 55

52:11

For my thoughts are not your thoughts. Neither are your ways my way sayeth the Lord As the heavens are higher than the earth

52:20

So are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts Well hearing that immediately the unbelief was gone and It's not that I tried to believe in something or that I then and there made a profession

52:38

Then and there by the hearing of those two verses My thoughts are not your thoughts my ways are not your ways my whole system of doubt and question just Disappeared it was gone.

52:54

It's never returned and at the time. I just assumed I had gotten assurance of salvation

53:00

Because that's the way things were put in those days in those contexts

53:06

In subsequent years, I would realize That indeed faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the

53:13

Word of God and That event in that planetarium that day was God by the

53:19

Word Revealing himself to me Taking away my sin saving my soul and then and there

53:25

I was born again and I look back to that with great gratitude and regeneration and took place and I Believe God took me through that process in order to show me the believe that unbelief is not something

53:42

We just decided we're going to do It instead is the very constitution of our nature.

53:49

It is what we are We are living unbelief until God regenerates us and gives us the gift of saving faith and So I look back on that experience

54:03

I'd love to talk about it to anyone who wants to listen because For the same reason

54:09

I'd love to hear others testimonies of how God saved their soul and so that's my testimony of salvation and I Did not at that point

54:22

Understand the doctrines of grace. In fact, I would not understand them for years to come

54:28

I Guess I have to be honest to say I still don't understand them everything about them.

54:34

That is because God's truth like God himself is infinite and all eternity will be a continual

54:44

Exploration of the wonders and glory of our God who has no limit and no end

54:51

So I Was born again continued on through my college experience and then continued in graduate school there at Bob Jones in the

55:01

School of Religion and It was interesting in systematic theology our textbook was

55:09

Charles Hodges three -volume systematic theology and it was some of the most challenging reading

55:15

I had done to that date and I Look back in it and And embarrassed when

55:22

I read the Marginal arguments that I jotted down Against Hodge and what he was teaching because I knew coming from a

55:34

Methodist background that I was Wesleyan Arminian and I knew that the

55:41

Bible spoke of election, but I could Dismiss the true meaning of it by the sincere belief

55:51

That election according to foreknowledge simply meant that God knew In advance who was going to believe in him and on that basis

56:01

They were elect. In fact, we have to pick up right where you left off there Okay, we have to go to our midway break and we will pick up right where you left off on foreknowledge

56:11

If anybody would like to join us our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. This is our longer than normal break

56:17

So, please be patient Brace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break so that they can air their own

56:25

Public service announcements to localize this program to Lake City, Florida And while they do that, we are our own commercials that are heard globally

56:32

So please be patient with us and we'll be back after this longer than normal break After these messages from our sponsors don't go away

56:43

Chris Arnson host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world magazine

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I'm dr. Gary Kimbrough patch the Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi God tells us in James 1 27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit the fatherless and widows and their affliction

58:12

In the providence of God three years ago I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka Zambia in a township called

58:19

Cabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding

58:24

What was that to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children said heavily upon me as I was praying concerning this need it came to me

58:32

I trust from the Lord to tell the orphans plight to a broader audience the entire need for their clothing food

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Education and some medical services is $73 per month per child If just 50 of us would give $35 a month we could meet the need

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Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there So if you give a dollar a dollar will get to the orphans in the season of hope and giving will you consider giving?

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Hope to 24 orphans, please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

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Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or donate through our website

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BBC Laurel calm again The address is Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

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Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or BBC Laurel calm.

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Thank you when iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

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Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love

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01:10:59

John McKnight on his testimony of being a Christian on a journey from Wesleyan Arminianism into Calvinism by the

01:11:11

Holy Scriptures and the Holy Spirit alone Let we just have some important announcements to make in regard to special events that we hope you attend

01:11:20

The first we've already been mentioning. That's the American Council of Christian Churches 2019 convention being held right here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania next

01:11:31

Tuesday through Thursday at Faith Chapel in Carlisle, Pennsylvania and the theme of this convention

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Is I think a very thought -provoking one? biblical fundamentalism pursuing purity and If you want more details on this conference

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Just go to the website ACCC the number for truth org.

01:11:59

That's a CCC for truth org 2019 dash

01:12:07

Convention that's a CCC for truth org forward slash 2019 dash convention then coming up Another conference that I will be attending

01:12:20

God willing Which will be held Friday, November 1st and Saturday, November 2nd at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York is

01:12:29

The doctrines of grace conference being hosted by Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship this is a fraternal of Long Island pastors who believe in the doctrines of sovereign grace and A number of these pastors will be speaking on such subjects as God's sovereignty

01:12:49

Total depravity unconditional election limited atonement perseverance of the Saints is Calvinism biblical and there will be a

01:12:56

Q &A roundtable with the audience If you'd like to join me there on Friday and Saturday, November 1st and 2nd at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York You can call six three one six nine six five seven eleven six three one six nine six five seven eleven or go to reformed rookie calm

01:13:19

Reformed rookie are okay. I e .com and you could also go to the website of Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram Which is hope reformed li .net

01:13:30

hope reformed li for Long Island net then coming up in December on Thursday and Friday December 19th and 20th.

01:13:42

I will be Heading out to my old stopping grounds in New York City to the foundations conference a conference founded and hosted by sermon audio .com

01:13:54

and I have a feeling Stephen Lee and the folks at sermon audio would feel very much at home at next week's conference as well in Carlisle, Pennsylvania since the

01:14:07

Free Presbyterian Church of North America has representatives at both conferences The foundations conference has become such an important part of my conference attending and This is for men and ministry leadership only because this the venue is so small

01:14:23

It can only seat less than 200 people. They've restricted attendance to men and ministry leadership, and I hope you join me there

01:14:31

Thursday and Friday December 19th and 20th the roster speaking at this conference includes dr

01:14:37

Stephen J. Lawson Paul Washer Reverend Jeff Thomas Reverend Armin Tomasian who is a

01:14:44

Free Presbyterian Pastor he is a young man, but I believe that over the next decade.

01:14:50

He is going to be a household name in the Christian Church Especially amongst

01:14:57

Reformed Christians. He is one of the most powerful preachers. I've ever heard. I feel like I am sitting in a pew in a

01:15:05

Puritan Church From centuries ago listening to a Puritan pastor preach. He is just magnificent Richard Corwell jr.

01:15:14

And Andrew Quigley both men from the Free Presbyterian Church that I have not yet heard speak yet, but I am certain that if Sermon audio .com

01:15:24

has selected them. They must be magnificent If you want to join me there in New York City During the

01:15:30

Christmas season the best time to be in New York City and as far as my opinion is concerned

01:15:37

If you want to join me there Thursday and Friday December 19th and 20th go to the foundations conference calm the foundations conference calm

01:15:48

Then in January from January 16th through the 18th. That's Thursday through Saturday.

01:15:54

I will be in Atlanta, Georgia God willing more specifically

01:16:00

College Park, Georgia a suburb of Atlanta at the Georgia International Convention Center That's where they have been holding for a number of years the annual g3 conference g3 stands for gospel grace and glory and I am always thrilled to man an exhibitors booth there at the g3 conference

01:16:19

I've always had an extraordinary experience by doing so by God's grace and I am expecting the same this

01:16:27

January and I hope you join me there. The theme is going to be worship matters and As always they have an astronomical lineup of speakers the largest lineup of speakers

01:16:39

I've ever experienced at any conference not only numerically large but also

01:16:47

Absolutely profound in their gifts these speakers. They include once again, dr.

01:16:53

Stephen J Lawson of one passion ministries My friend dr. James R white of Alpha Omega Ministries a dear friend of mine since 1995

01:17:00

Phil Johnson The executive director of John MacArthur's media ministry grace to you

01:17:05

Todd Friel of wretched TV and wretched radio good friend of mine who's been

01:17:11

Promoting this conference on my show Derek Thomas the world -renowned

01:17:17

Presbyterian author and pastor and conference speaker my friend. Dr Tom Askew who is the executive director of founders ministries the

01:17:25

Calvinistic ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention Reverend and dr.

01:17:30

Stephen J Nichols Who is the president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by the late

01:17:36

R .C. Sproul and Ligonier ministries a? fascinating speaker is

01:17:42

Kosti Hinn Who if that name sounds familiar? It's probably for a very horrible reason his uncle is the notorious charlatan and heretic

01:17:52

Benny Hinn But but Kosti doesn't mind me saying that because he himself Says just as much

01:18:00

Especially as often as he can when he is traveling outside of his own pulpit warning the church and the lost community alike about the deadly and dangerous and damning

01:18:16

Deceptions of the word of faith movement and the health wealth and prosperity movement

01:18:21

Kosti has renounced The word of faith movement of his youth and renounced his own

01:18:28

Uncle as a false teacher And he is currently a Reformed Baptist pastor and a cessationist now in Arizona he was in California as James White has been saying and this is in his ads for the

01:18:43

G3 conference, but he is now in Arizona. He is on the roster and Many others are on the roster and as you have heard the latest update is that dr

01:18:54

John MacArthur himself is speaking at this conference. I would be there even if it was just him alone

01:19:00

I am looking forward to this with bated breath, and I am also going to be as I said manning a iron chirping's iron radio

01:19:09

Exhibitors booth there again. This will be my fourth year in a row If you want to join me there go to g3conference .com

01:19:16

g3conference .com to register that's January 16th through the 18th Thursday through Saturday and 2020 at the

01:19:24

Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia I strongly urge you to join me not only in attending this conference, but join me in registering for an exhibitors booth if indeed you have a business or a power church organization or Some kind of ministry that you want to promote to the body of Christ In large numbers, and they have over 5 ,000 people that attend this conference every year

01:19:46

With John MacArthur added to the lineup. I think they're gonna have over 6 ,000 people. That's just my guess, but it's a an educated guess and so if you want to register for an exhibitors booth to reach all those people

01:19:58

I would strongly urge you to register for one quickly because They're gonna run out of room a lot more quickly for for exhibitors booths than they will for attendees

01:20:07

So go to g3conference .com g3conference .com to register either for attending or For an exhibitors booth and remember to tell them that you heard about this event from Chris Arns and on Iron Sherpens Iron Radio That's g3conference .com

01:20:21

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01:22:40

You're living in rebellion against God. Please rectify that situation. I may be able to help you

01:22:46

I've lists of biblically faithful churches all over the globe I've already helped quite a number of listeners in our audience find churches near them in all parts of the world whether they have joined them and become members of them or whether they have visited them when they were on vacation or Whether they have recommended them these churches to family friends and loved ones who are without a church home wherever they live

01:23:08

So if this situation applies to you Send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:23:13

and put I need a church in the subject line That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com And I will try to help you the best of my ability from these lists that I have all over the world

01:23:22

To help you find a biblically solid church home. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest dr.

01:23:30

John McKnight of Reformation Bible Church in Darlington, Maryland as we continue our discussion now on his personal testimony his journey from Wesleyan Arminianism Into Calvinism guided by the

01:23:43

Holy Scriptures and the Holy Spirit alone Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:23:49

Before we take any listener questions, dr. McKnight you were when we left off you were talking about how

01:23:56

Many of our brethren outside of the doctrines of sovereign grace Misunderstand what

01:24:02

God's foreknowledge means and if you could pick up on that Yes, I certainly can with with delight to discuss these great truths

01:24:11

I was of the opinion that Divine foreknowledge

01:24:16

Election is taught in the scripture election according to foreknowledge and that foreknowledge

01:24:21

Was simply God knowing in advance what was going to happen and with that? Understanding I could ease my way through every biblical reference

01:24:32

Where the word elect or chosen might be found? But then

01:24:39

I was confronted with the scripture there in Matthew chapter 11 and by the way

01:24:50

Coming to these convictions concerning the doctrines of grace or Calvinism as some wish to call it

01:24:57

I Did not read any authors or apologists for that position at all

01:25:04

It was all really About major turning point with this passage of scripture in Matthew chapter 11 the

01:25:14

Lord Jesus was rebuking the cities where he had done his great works and In the 21st verse he said woe unto thee chorus and woe unto thee

01:25:26

Bethsaida For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon They would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes and So when our

01:25:42

Lord rebuked Chorazin and Bethsaida with those words he Made it clear that he knew exactly

01:25:50

What it would take to bring Tyre and Sidon to repentance But he hadn't given that to them he'd given it instead to Bethsaida and Chorazin and That Was more than foreknowledge

01:26:06

God knew in advance what would happen if certain circumstances were present but he chose not to give the circumstances that would have brought the cities of Tyre and Sidon to repentance and Seeing that I knew that that could not

01:26:26

Coincide with or or stand side by side with My understanding of foreknowledge and I knew that if my understanding of foreknowledge could not stand up against this that my whole system of thinking had to go through a a complete transformation which

01:26:47

I did not want and so I struggled with this and For three days night and day my wife,

01:26:56

I guess was wondering what was going on I I Couldn't sleep.

01:27:02

I was just Struggling with the fact God knew what would have brought Tyre and Sidon to repentance and chose not to give it to them that is

01:27:11

More than just knowing in advance what would happen and I finally had to yield to the fact.

01:27:18

Okay God Did not simply know in advance what was going to happen but he ruled and Controlled what was going to happen and if that's the case

01:27:31

Then election according to foreknowledge is not God electing those whom he knows in advance are going to choose him

01:27:38

But it is God determining who will indeed turn unto him and I came by that means to understand that foreknowledge is

01:27:50

God in fact knowing his own Before they are called and once I had once my own arguments crumbled before that realization other matters

01:28:09

Concerning God's saving mercies were very clear to see in other words if God elects some to salvation

01:28:18

He is going to succeed in accomplishing his purpose He cannot fail he is

01:28:25

God and thus election of someone to salvation ensures that that person is going to be saved that the grace of God is going to prevail in subduing that person's rebellion and unbelief and in bringing them unto saving faith and As well if God has elected someone unto eternal life

01:28:51

Then Eternal life is what they are going to have they are not going to lose it.

01:28:57

They will be saved and secured forever and so from that I came to recognize the truth of prevailing effectual grace and the truth of the perseverance of God's people save forevermore

01:29:17

I Always thought that I believed in total depravity but Coming to this understanding of foreknowledge.

01:29:27

I Began then to perceive how total total depravity is amen

01:29:33

And that it's something up beyond what I had comprehended that man in fact Will not will not turn unto

01:29:41

Christ apart from a great work of sovereign electric grace I still did not see or understand particular redemption and I could not reconcile particular redemption with Many of the passages that are used

01:30:00

By those who affirm a universal Redemption offered I saw the inconsistency of holding to universal

01:30:13

Redemption and when I say universal, I mean An atonement provided for everybody not effectual for everybody but provided for everybody

01:30:25

I recognized my position was contradictory, but one of the things that I appreciate from the

01:30:31

From the emphasis I received as a student at Bob Jones University was you don't have to reconcile

01:30:38

Every text of Scripture with every text, but you have to believe it all Indeed it is all a man

01:30:45

God. And so I I could withstand a contradiction in my own thinking because I Knew that we are limited finite beings so for years,

01:31:01

I struggled with that question of For whom did Christ atone at Calvary and My favorite

01:31:12

Texts to fight against the universal or to fight against particular redemption were the passage there in Peter where God is not slack concerning his promise as Some men count slackness, but as long -suffering to us were not willing that any should perish

01:31:30

But that all should come to repentance and that phrase not willing that any should perish

01:31:35

But that all should come to repentance. I clung to with great Confidence and certainty that that meant the atonement work of Christ was a universal work

01:31:47

But I was reading it one day for the hundredth time and in fact for the very first time and It suddenly leaped off of the page at me

01:31:59

God is Long -suffering to us were Not willing that any should perish

01:32:06

But that all should come to repentance and I realized that what it's saying is God is long -suffering to us

01:32:12

Not willing that any of us should perish, but that of all of us should come to repentance and if that's

01:32:19

What it's saying then who is the us that it speaks of amen, and as I look through Peter Further it was very clear speaking to the elect and in fact that passage is not telling us who

01:32:35

Will be saved or who can be saved it is instead

01:32:40

Peter answering the scoffers who said where is the promise of his coming and Peter simply says the reason the coming of Christ seems to be delayed is

01:32:51

Because not all of us have been brought in yet amen and when the last one of us is saved the last one of the elect is saved

01:32:58

Christ will return and So suddenly that passage which I had used to fight against the actual particular atonement of God's people

01:33:07

I saw was making that truth very very clear and was teaching the opposite of what

01:33:13

I had tried to make it say and then the the other passage on that matter which

01:33:21

I had utilized was there from Paul's word to Timothy that God will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth and as I Read through that passage.

01:33:34

I see that he's Saying prayer ought to be made for all men for Kings for all those who are in authority

01:33:41

That we may live a quiet a peace of a life, and I began Contemplating that when he says we are to pray for all men.

01:33:49

What does he mean? Are we to make a prayer list and put every single human beings name on it?

01:33:55

Well, of course not, but that's utterly impossible to do so And certainly it doesn't mean that we're to simply pray

01:34:03

Lord. I I Pray that uh, your will be done for all men. Amen And so I realized that that passage was

01:34:14

Specifically saying pray for Kings for rulers. In other words, don't leave any class of people out of your praying

01:34:22

Because God will have people from every class of people to be saved. Yes, even even wicked rulers

01:34:30

God can save and men of power he can use to enable you to live a quiet and peaceable life and Thus when it goes on to say he will have all men to be saved

01:34:43

He's saying men of all groups of all classes He will have to be saved therefore pray for them.

01:34:50

I don't fail to pray for someone because of his Rank and station in life or the extent of his wickedness

01:34:57

Pray for him. God will have men of all sorts to be saved and with those truths. I began to recognize that indeed

01:35:06

Christ atonement was for The elect whom God had given him before the foundation of the world and The more

01:35:17

I contemplate that truth the more I see that as the very center of the work of Christ at Calvary and That to that to me is where everything comes down either on the cross

01:35:34

Christ actually atoned for sin or He merely provided the potential for all men to have their sins atoned and If he did the latter merely provided the potential

01:35:50

Then it's up to the sinner to add the one missing ingredient that brings the whole atoning work of Christ to effectual application and that that is the gospel presentation that I find in a

01:36:08

Large segment of Evangelicalism today, and I don't mean to suggest that our brethren who do not see these truths are denying the gospel when they preach a potential atonement

01:36:24

I Recognize that it's not a one of us Who does it? Perfectly that they're not one of us who understands the scripture perfectly

01:36:35

Even the Apostle Paul wrote inerrantly Now we see through a glass darkly

01:36:41

Now we know in part and if the inerrant Apostle Confessed that that I better be very humble in my own dogmatism and therefore

01:36:52

I've certainly recognized as brethren men who Refuse to preach what

01:36:58

I have just enunciated Men who reject the doctrines of grace but I do believe that They are preaching a potential atonement

01:37:10

When in fact what Christ accomplished on Calvary was an actual atonement

01:37:16

Then and there when he prayed father forgive them. He was praying for the elect of God he was praying for the ones who would be forgiven because Christ could not make that request and the ones for whom he prayed not be forgiven

01:37:35

Christ's prayers are the very expression of the will of God So when he said father forgive them for they don't know what they do

01:37:41

If he was praying for everybody at the foot of the cross Then they were all saved they had to be Christ prayed for that if he's praying for all of humanity

01:37:49

Then they will all be saved. I believe though. He was praying for God's elect as Isaiah prophesied

01:37:56

When thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin he shall see his seed and He focuses on his own and prays that they might be forgiven

01:38:07

Which is the explanation for what follows immediately there in Luke's account the conversion of the thief

01:38:15

Who could have reasoned with that thief that day and convinced him that the man on the middle of Christ Middle cross was

01:38:22

Christ the Son of God and the only way into heaven who had a kingdom That he was presiding over No logic could have convinced that thief of that at all

01:38:33

The only thing that could change his thinking would be if his thinking was totally rewired by God And that's what happened when

01:38:41

Christ prayed father forgive them for they don't know what they do that thief Was then and there converted and it became very evident in what he spoke

01:38:50

So that's my my testimony of the Lord's leading in my life I I should probably be ashamed to admit that I've never read

01:38:58

Calvin and I have read portions But never read his complete work, and I certainly don't believe what

01:39:07

I believe because I read some men that argued for it The scriptures

01:39:12

I believe have guided me to where I am now and when I read men like John Owen I can very readily say why indeed yes, this is exactly what

01:39:25

I found in the scripture and So there's my testimony of coming to the doctrines of grace praise

01:39:31

God Very briefly I came to the doctrines of grace after stubbornly and adamantly rejecting them

01:39:41

When someone gave me a booklet Titled George Whitfield's letter to John Wesley on election now now

01:39:50

The issue though is not unlike yours

01:39:56

Because although this was a booklet where George Whitfield was writing to John Wesley.

01:40:01

I was a new believer I had no clue who George Whitfield was or who John Wesley was so neither of their opinions mattered at all to me

01:40:10

But George Whitfield's letter to John Wesley was replete with scripture and It was the scriptural evidence

01:40:19

That George Whitfield gave not George Whitfield's opinions But the scriptural evidence that George Whitfield gave to John Wesley that the

01:40:28

Lord used to open my eyes to these truths and So I am so thrilled for that and we're going to our final break right now

01:40:37

And if you have a question, we do have several people waiting for the questions to be asked if you want to get in line

01:40:44

Email us immediately because we're rapidly running out of time. It's Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:40:51

and as always give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

01:40:59

We'll be right back with dr John McKnight right after these messages from our sponsors One sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers

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Omega ministries and my friend Chris Arnson and I are excited to be attending another g3 conference together in Atlanta Georgia Thursday January 16th through Saturday January 18th on a theme that is vitally important to all of us

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Worship matters. I'll be on the speaking lineup with Eric Thomas Joel Beakey Paul Washer Steve Lawson Phil Johnson Tom Askell Votie Balcombe and the world -renowned preacher teacher and author

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John MacArthur a Fascinating new addition to the roster is Kosti Hinn nephew of the notorious false teacher

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Baptist pastor and cessationist in California Come join me and Chris Arnson at g3 2020

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That's g3conference .com. See you there When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

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Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach preach and debate at numerous venues

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Some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church now located at their new beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York I've had the privilege of opening

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God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions have led youth retreats for them and have always been thrilled to See their members filling many seats at my

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Discipled and edified by the Holy Scriptures and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ I also want to congratulate

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For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net

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That's CVBBS .com Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble

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Please stick around on first love radio org after iron sharpens iron radio is over To continue being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace

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Spread the word about first love radio org Welcome back.

01:52:15

And this is our final segment of our interview today with dr John McKnight on his journey from Wesleyan Arminianism to Calvinism by the guidance of The Holy Scriptures and the

01:52:26

Holy Spirit alone if you want to join us This is your last opportunity at Chris Arnson at gmail .com

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Chris Arnson at gmail .com We have Christian in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York who says

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I am thrilled with your testimony of how you came to the doctrines of sovereign grace solely by the aid of the

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Holy Scriptures and the Holy Spirit The fundamentalists that I know Most frequently say that there would be no way anyone would believe in the doctrines of sovereign grace or Calvinism Unless a

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Calvinist instructed them. Well, I don't believe that is true in one way this is a straw man argument because of the fact that everyone who has come to belief in Christ and has been saved has come to that belief typically by reading a work by a great man of faith or By hearing a sermon preached by a human being that is not

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Speaking God -breathed words, but merely preaching what he has read from the scriptures himself or otherwise known as exegeting the

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Word of God therefore even the Fundamentalist who hates Calvinism has learned what he has learned typically by a man who is preaching most often people do not

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Become Christians by finding a Bible in the woods somewhere and reading it by themselves

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Although I'm not saying that does not occur I'm just talking about the normative way people are saved and I was wondering how you would respond to this

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Well, I think I think it's an interesting and a very good point indeed It seems to me that the vast

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Arminian world. I'll call it that Those brethren may not want to use the term

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Arminian, but it's a free will mindset and world Um that can only develop it seems to me in a context where Christianity has already been established and taken firm root and On the on the contrary or consistent with that is this concept

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When someone in a land where there is no scripture where there is no gospel

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Suddenly receives the gospel and Embraces it and is saved that first generation believer in that land knows

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That this was something God brought to it and that's something he went out searching for And only where God has brought the gospel and it has been widely accepted

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Can the concept in mind then develop that hey I did this myself um

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So I hope of making sense in putting it that way and indeed the free will emphasis of so many preachers today is grown out of a

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Settled Christian culture and handling perhaps weak handling of the gospel something that is innate within them and Has been buttressed by the religious culture whereas those in Call it

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The barren territory where the gospel has not been taken when they get the gospel.

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They know God has done a special Sovereign dispensing of the gospel to them.

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Well, thank you Christian and we have an anonymous listener Who says the hardest text that I have?

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To defend when I am dealing with my anti Calvinist friends is 2nd

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Peter chapter 2 verse 1 and That text reads as you know

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But there were false prophets also among the people even as there shall be false teachers among you who?

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Privilege shall bring in damnable heresies even denying the Lord that bought them and Bring upon themselves with destruction

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This seems to be teaching that those whom are excuse me those for whom

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Christ died include those that wind up denying him and Are destroyed

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I'm assuming meaning going to hell after they perish Can you explain this in light of your belief of particular redemption or?

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limited atonement Admittedly that is a difficult and challenging text of Scripture But I believe the answer lies in the fact that the word

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Lord that is used in 2nd Peter chapter 2 The Lord that bought them is not the

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Greek word that is used for Christ But the word that is used simply to speak of a master in the sense that you

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Might in some cultures refer to Someone is having lordship over you And so it is not necessary to force that To force

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Christ as the one being spoken of there the Lord Jesus Christ that bought them

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For it is a word that is not used to identify Christ It's used to identify masters of another sort

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Now I have heard some exegete some Calvinist exegete that to mean that Paul was referring to these people

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Who denied the Lord that bought them according to their profession in other words? They claimed to be

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Christians, but they really weren't would that be an acceptable option in in executing that in Europe?

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So yes, yes indeed Well, we are out of time the time just flew by and I want to make sure that our listeners have once again the website for Reformation Bible Church of Darlington, Maryland That website is easy to remember

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Reformation Bible Church org Reformation Bible Church org don't forget folks that if you want to attend the conference that I will be attending

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God willing where my guest is speaking along with a long list of other speakers That's Tuesday through Thursday of next week in Carlisle, Pennsylvania at Faith Chapel Go to a

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CCC the number for truth org forward -slash 2019 dash

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Convention that's a CCC for truth org forward -slash 2019 dash convention.

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Well, thank you so much. Dr. McKnight for being an excellent guest In fact, I already know that I want you to return frequently as my guest here in Iron Trip and Zion Radio And I hope that you take the time out of your schedule to do so I want to thank everybody who listened today and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives

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That Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner Thank you