MSL: April 3, 2024

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network.

It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers.

Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody.

Welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live. I hope you're going to have a good time listening today, by God's grace. And if you want to give me a call, as usual, all you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

I want to hear from you. Give me a call. And if you want to, you can email me a question or a comment at info at karm .org. Info at karm .org. So just carm .org. Put in the subject line. Put radio question or radio comment.

And you know, I was thinking about this yesterday, that if you'd be so kind, when you email people, when you talk to people, whatever, spread karm. Spread the karm website out, you know, so that people can know about it.

And you know what? I just thought, I wonder if it would be good if people would like cards, and I have business cards from karma. What if they would like to ever have some? So they could pass them out.

That's an idea. I didn't think about that until just now. So anyway, so I wonder if we could work on something like that. If you want to do that, give me an email. Let me know. I don't know. Anyway, just talking.

So tomorrow night, I'm going to be in a debate on total depravity, and more information will be coming on that on karm .org forward slash calendar. And then a week after that, we're tentatively scheduled for me to debate.

I think he's a Muslim. This has been going on for a while, and we're finally nailing it down. Does the Bible teach that Jesus is divine? And two weeks after that, I'll be speaking here in Idaho and Meridian on spiritual warfare, the nature of truth, and they said they want me to get deep.

So yes, I'm going to be getting some deep stuff on the nature of truth, the essence of truth, and what we know, what we believe, how we know things, grounding theory of the Trinitarian essence, necessary precondition for all intelligibility.

I'll get into that. But I'm going to make it simple, and I'm going to put it in PowerPoint slides. So I'll be doing that. And I like PowerPoint. I used to teach it. So I know tricks inside of PowerPoint, how to make things look smooth and blend and morph together.

And it's a lot of fun. I got a lot more to learn, but it's fun. All right. Hey, why don't we just jump right on the phones here? Let's get to Justin from New Hampshire. Justin, welcome. You're on the air.

Women Deacons and the Qualifications for Church Office

How are you doing? Hello.

Hello. Hello, man. I'm doing OK. How are you doing? Doing all right. All right. So here's my question. So just for a little context, I recently left the church because they're permitting women deacons, and I went to the elders.

I confronted them about it, and they held their position of that women are to be permitted. So that's their position, whatever. Like, I did what I could. But one person from that conversation reached out to me and agreed with me.

So as I was trying to reason with them, you know, going through scripture, of course, I just want to make sure I'm being accurate in what I'm seeing in 1 Timothy 2 -3. So I guess my question is this. So Paul writes out that women are not to teach or exercise authority over men, right?

Right. Mm-hmm. Right. So would it be reasonable to say that the office of deacons is an authoritative role in a different way of elders?

Well, that's worth a discussion. The office of the deacon is someone who administers church funds, church stuff for the needy. That's basically what it is in service. And so it says deacons must be husbands of only one wife.

So right there you go. And deacons in the Greek is diakonoi, which is the masculine plural. So it's not neuter, plural, not feminine. It's masculine. So deacons must be husbands of one wife, Andres Miosgunakos.

And it's the same kind of a thing that said of elders. So I think you're right for confronting them with it and saying, this is what the Bible says. And you're not going with Scripture. That's what's happening.

Right.

Absolutely. And that's where I stood. I'm just, I'm just trying to like reason through it. And I had one more question just about, so Paul writes that the men who are considered to be deacons must be tested.

And then he goes, then he kind of transfers into the family structure, what I see at least. He goes, why this must be in talking about their character and then what it looks like for the children within the household.

Would it be reasonable to say that a qualification for a man to be a deacon, that there needs to be a certain way in which he needs to run his household and what his family needs to look like?

Yes. And so the family must be in order. Now, here's a, there's a, there's problems here because what if a man as a godly man raises his family, according to the principles of Scripture, they attend church regularly.

He's done what he's believed is right before God and taught the children Bible study with the children, et cetera. And then they grow up and they leave the house and then they become, let's say atheists.

Let's just say, well, now what is he disqualified? Well, now we get into the gray area because how long, how long do we hold this? Well, if he did it in his household properly, that's what we know that the scriptures teaches for sure.

If they go where wayward, what if they become a Catholic? Well then is he disqualified because they're in a false religion now? So this is a, it's a tough one, but normatively speaking, yeah, deacons are supposed to be men also and women not to hold that office, which is what Paul teaches in the pastoral epistle.

So, yep. They blew it.

I gotcha. I totally agree. I'm not like this. I'm just, you know, trying to figure out, like, you know, being consistent throughout the whole scripture and being able to explain, you know, why. It's because, you know, some translation says, says women versus wives, stuff like that.

Why the context? Yes. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe you could help me out actually with this. What would be the correct wording? Wives versus women, sorry, women within the context, you know, well, it's, uh, it's not.

The, there's Greek words, there's Guna, Gunaikos or their derivations or cognate to the same word. There's Anthropos, Anthropoi, Anthropi. And they have, and that Anthropos means man, Gunaikos generally means woman, but it's often used in the context of a wife.

So it says deacons must be the husbands. And that's the word Andres, which is not the word Anthropos, which is just the singular form of the word man, Anthropos. And so we have Andres and that generally what it means is a husband.

That's what it, that's what it means. So basically, so a deacon must be the husband of one wife and it says me as Gunaikos. And then we get to the word Gunaikos, which is also a, it can be used as a woman and wife.

So there are different places where the word occurs and it occurs in Matthew 14, 21. There are about 5 ,000 men who ate besides women and children, and that's the word Gunaikos. So we have the, it's called a semantic domain, that the word has a range of meaning in different contexts.

So what it's saying here, we could, we could say deacons must be men of one woman. We can say they have to be husbands of one wife. Well then we got to ask the question, well, what if he's married, he's got one wife and then she dies.

Now is he disqualified? Because now technically he's not a husband of one wife. So that's a problem. Well, the context here is, is no, he's not to be a polygamist. He's not to have many wives at the same time.

That's what the cultural context is, which is why he's saying that because it's the order of the created order of Adam and Eve, one woman, one, one husband, that kind of a thing. That's what's going on.

Even in that though, wouldn't it be that what you just said, that when a spouse dies, they're released from that covenant anyways, so like, yeah, that would, that would biblically be able to go around.

I don't want to say go around, but you know what I'm trying to say though, like that, that doesn't disqualify you based on that because Jesus clearly explains that you're released from that covenant. Right.

Well, that's the issue of marriage. So, but, but back to the deacons thing. Okay. This is important because it says it must be good managers of their children and that's plural. But what if you only have one child?

Okay. So we don't want to take this super literally, but we don't want to violate what is clearly taught and just as the elders are to be on their musical night costs or on the musical night costs of husband and one wife.

So to the deacons are to be that. And so are the Episcopal or the bishops. So this is what it's saying in the church. And Paul says in verse 15, you know, that he's giving instruction on how to people are to conduct themselves in the household of God.

And that's it. So you were right to confront them and they are wrong for going against scripture. Yeah.

Okay. Cool. Thank you. So like, just so I'm clear, my, so if I'm going to stand on anything is based on the deacons being by nature, they have to be men because they have to be husbands of one wife. Like women cannot be husbands because yeah, exactly, exactly.

Okay.

So unless you want to ask them if they're going woke, you can say, are you guys going woke in the gender confusion stuff? Sometimes the question.

Yeah. And just, you know, I, I found a church beforehand, so I'm in a good solid church, thankfully right in town. I didn't even know that they were around and they don't hold that position of deacons can be women.

So like the Lord certainly used this circumstance to get me, my family into a church that is more faithful in this area. But yeah, so, you know, praise the Lord, right? Praise the Lord. Right. All right.

That's correct. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. All right.

All right. God bless. Take care. God bless. Bye. Okay. All right. That's a good call. All right. Now let's get on the line with John from Alabama. Hey, John, welcome. You are on the air.

Prison Ministry, Christian Broadcasting, and Encouragement in Incarceration

Thank you, Matt. It is a joy to speak with you. I've, I've, uh, I've been listening to your program for six or seven years and this is the first time I've called in and I just wanted to thank you for your ministry.

I have a question first. I have a question, but first I just wanted to comment about a unique way that your ministry and this, this radio program has blessed me. And actually I was, I was incarcerated at a federal prison in North Carolina for about three years.

And it was there that I, uh, that, that, you know, your, your, uh, broadcasts are broadcast on a, on a statewide network there in North Carolina. And it was fantastic because, uh, I'm, I was a believer prior to being incarcerated and, and straight from the word of God.

But, um, prisons are really breeding grounds for the occult and, um, in, in the, in the interest of unity and in the interest of, of keeping the peace and keeping everything, um, you know, came down. Even books like kingdoms of the kingdom of the cults were forbidden to be inside, uh, prison facilities.

So the truth of having your network or your, your broadcast shine through were, uh, was so illuminating for many Christians, including myself. So thank you for what you do. Praise God. Well, praise God.

You know, just praise God. And two things. One I did nine years of prison ministry, going to different prisons for nine years. So I've been, uh, under the gun. I've been in low level security, been on the yard, been doubt, you know, different levels.

And I've always enjoyed, uh, the, the fellowship with the believers in there. And so I, I get what you're saying and I know what the literature issue and the radio will, when we get back from the break, we'll talk about that radio really quickly.

And uh, then we'll, you know, get on to your questions. So hold on. Okay. Hey folks, we right back after these messages, we'll get to John from Alabama right after the break. Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with John. Hey John, you still there? I am. Thank you, Matt. All right. You're welcome. And, um, I just wanted to say that, uh, you should, if you haven't already, uh, contact the truth network and just give them an email and say, thanks for, um, you know, for having the radio there and it going into the prisons and how it helped people.

They would love to hear that. And, uh, it's good, you know? So, you know, if you had that opportunity, if you haven't already done it, I'd recommend you to give it a shot. I will do that. Thank you. Yeah.

Okay. Good. Yeah. So, uh, so you were going to make a comment before the break. I apologize. No, that was it. About the radio. Okay. That was it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, my question is, it's interesting.

I was incarcerated for 15 years and now that I've gone back into society and I've been released about a year, it's interesting because I see where the Protestant church, in my opinion, was, and I see where it is now.

And, um, obviously growth of mega churches and all that. And my question to you is, is a church I currently attend, uh, it's just really great growing, uh, fellowship and, uh, expository preaching, preaching verse by verse through, through, uh, books of the Bible.

Yet I have friends and family who, you know, attend other well-meaning fellowships. But, and, and it, it seems like these occur more frequently now than I remember in the past, but it's non-denominational churches who have maybe shorter sermon series, um, that are taught on Sunday mornings.

There's, there's no, um, Bible studies on Sunday mornings. It's all community groups through the weeks, which I get that. But I just, I have a, I have a, a worry, a fear that with the shorter kind of topical sermon series that I'm not sure people are getting the word of God in fullness, in context, like happens through expository preaching.

How big of a deal do you see the difference between those two ways of, um, kind of feeding the flock and in what way, if, if you were, if, if you were attending a church that taught the Bible in an expository manner, in what way would you kind of, I hate to use the word pitch, but pitch that to, uh, those who don't as maybe a different way or a better way of attending church and of being fed the word of God.

Um, okay, so, all right, I'm going to say this carefully. I don't want to say it, uh, without wisdom, but in my opinion, this is my opinion. A lot of churches are not preaching the word of God. They're preaching, uh, methods, motivational stories, uh, stories to get you interested in, prepare you for a segment of scripture.

Too many of the churches that I've come across and been told about, uh, expand the congregation numbers with gimmicks, great music, great programs, et cetera. And the, I think a lot of them measure their success by that.

And, you know, I often want to challenge them. Uh, this may sound arrogant and I don't mean it that way. Not like I'm, I'm anything great, but, but I want to, you know, it's like, what would happen if they gave me the pulpit for three months, you know, get a big church.

And then I preached and I preached expositionally from the scriptures and preached theologically from the word of God uncompromisingly. How many would stay? I'm not saying a good preacher or bad preacher or whatever, but to say, what would happen if someone were to get into these churches that do this motivational stuff, this program, uh, Christianity and preach Jesus Christ crucified, you need to repent of your sins.

You need to trust in the Lord Jesus. You are called to be disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ. You got to pick up your cross daily and follow after him. If you're an adultery, you've got to stop. If you're watching pornography, you've got to stop.

If you are living with someone, you need to repent right now, you know, you know, and go through all this and say the fires of hell await those who rebel against a true and living God. And I preached like this occasionally and then taught on the Trinity, taught on the deity of Christ, a hypostatic union, the carries of nature, the atoning sacrifice, what justification is, how it relates to sanctification, holiness, who and what God is.

This is a foundation of all truth, the biblical stuff. What's the word of God in its inspiration? Why you should be studying it. What's communion? What's baptism? What's baptism? And do all these things through the teaching of the word of God.

How many would stay? It's just a question. I don't know. I don't know. Would it grow? I don't know. But when you gather people with honey, you keep them with honey. And I'm not saying be mean, but I think that what preachers need to do is preach to the elect, not to the unbelievers.

And what I mean by that is God has elected people for salvation. Ephesians 1 3. And if I taught that from the pulpit, how many people would walk out? But if I were to quote Ephesians 1 4, if I were to quote Ephesians 1 4 and say he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, this is what God did.

And you preach to those people, the ones called by God for the equipping of the saints, because that's what the preacher is supposed to do. Equip the saints for the work of ministry. And that's Ephesians 1 8 through 11 in 12.

This is what the pastor is called to do. So when you talk about this issue of expositional versus, so to speak, motivational man, you just don't know how much I've thought about that and how frustrated I am with the churches that teach the seven steps to a better marriage, the seven steps to how to tie your shoelace better.

And I'm just mad. If I may, if I may jump in super quick, I have a feeling it's just a feeling. This isn't anything that's written down or anything that's written down in scripture, but I have a feeling that part of the motivation of that is it.

I liken it to a finances and I liken these churches to finances and people who live paycheck to paycheck, because I feel like a lot of people in these congregations live Sunday to Sunday. And I'm not sure how they're how capable the churches, their individual churches have made it for their faith to be maintained.

Well, that's an interesting turn of topic finances, faith maintained and things like that. So I'm not sure what you're where you're coming from with that. But but there are churches that teach that faith and finances are related and that the more you believe, the more you're supposed to give.

That's manipulation.

That's not where I was going with it. I was just I was just using the allegory to say that that people it's as if I wonder people at these motivational churches, if they lack the motive, if they don't get the motivation on Sunday morning, how likely it is for their faith to grow over time.

Whether someone who is in the pulpit, who is in the congregation of a church that preaches an expository message, you know, let's say it's something where they they're a worker and there are false allegations against them.

I'm making something random up. They might have the wherewithal to say, oh, hey, this happened to Paul in the Old Testament. This happened with false allegations to, you know, Joseph. And they're like, hey, I can I can I can see myself in the scriptures and see what these people did and and then I can move forward.

And I think that gives a more wholeness to their experience as a believer rather than kind of a motivational. You can do it. You can overcome it because you have the Holy Spirit. Yeah, I agree with you.

We've got a break. You're talking a difference between motivational, popularist teaching versus expositional from the word of God. And when we get back, I'll talk about one more thing before I get to the other colors.

OK, so hold on, man. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages, please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. As soon as the producer reactivates, John, we'll get him back on the air. And there we go. All right, John, you still there? I am. Thank you, Matt. All right.

So briefly, the Bible says this, 2 Thessalonians 2, 3. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed instead of destruction.

So that means the return of Christ will not come back until the apostasy comes first. So the apostasy is the church falling away from the truth. So I'm of the opinion that for the most part, Protestantism will go apostate.

Catholicism already is. Eastern Orthodox already is. And so in part, I think it's because of one simple thing. People aren't trusting the Word of God for what it is. It's powerful and it's inspired. And that people are more concerned, or I'm asking, are people more concerned with numbers and success and programs rather than preaching the Word of God?

And I've said this before to people, you know, what if you were to, you know, a pastor were to take his sermon, not her because women aren't to be pastors, and take his sermon and go out to a forest where there's nobody around except the squirrels and the chipmunks and whatever, and preach the sermon to God, that God's the one listening, and that the sermon must be catered to glorifying God and preaching Christ and Him crucified because otherwise it's moralism.

And then they would take the exact same sermon and go the next day and preach to the congregation. Would it change? That's a question I've asked. You know, certainly when you see people in the congregation, I preach many, many, many, many times, okay?

And when you see people reacting to something you said, it influences you because if they're nodding and a bunch of people, oh, man, then you know that the Spirit's opening their hearts and their minds to that truth.

If their, like, their eyebows shoot up, they're not sure about something you have to spend more time on. I get that. But the view here is the fidelity to the Word of God because we have to answer to God as preachers and teachers.

And if we don't, then I believe that that would be supporting the upcoming apostasy. Okay? Thank you so much, Matt. Thank you for your ministry. Amen. Praise God. Glad you're out of the, you know, out of there and you got the opportunity to serve God now.

So praise God, man. Okay? Amen. Thank you, Matt. God bless you. You too. God bless. And you know, I just thought of something. I know that there are people in prison who hear me, and I'm just waving to you.

And if you're there incarcerated and you're hearing me, I want you to know I've been in prison countless times, you know, in prison ministry over nine years, in many different prisons. And I've always enjoyed the guys.

I've always enjoyed the fellowship. And I've been level four, even. I think level five, but level four. And so I've got stories. But you know what? I've always enjoyed the dedication that the men have to the Lord Jesus Christ.

There's always fakers. We know that. But there's a lot of men in there, and women too. And I've never done a woman's prison. But a lot of men who truly love God and are repentant will serve out their time and then want to go serve God.

And I praise God for men like that. And here's another thing about people in prison. A lot of people don't know this. That when you become, in some areas, I've been told this many times in different prisons.

I've been, I won't tell you where. And I've had many men tell me that once you profess Christ in prison, you'll be tested. And that they're going to test your faith to see if you're going to compromise.

And you'll be tested. And you hold fast, you hold steady. And they're going to look for that. And then once they know you really are serious about it, then things tend to get better overall. And I'm saying this very generically.

But once you've really committed to Christ, and everybody knows it, then that's just how it is. And people respect that behind bars. And I've got some interesting stories. I'm going to tell you this one story.

I'm going to tell you one story. And it's one of the most memorable stories for me. And I was in a certain prison in California. And I was preaching. And I had lost my son just months earlier. And so here I am trying to connect with these guys in prison.

Many had been in there for many years. And we're in the chapel. And I'm up on a stage, about three foot high stage. And I'm preaching. And I'm trying to connect with these guys by saying I know what it means to suffer loss.

We have different kinds of loss. You've lost your freedom. Some of you lost families because you're in here. I've lost a son, but I'm free. And I understand there's differences. But I know what it means to suffer loss that means a lot to you.

And it's hard. And so I was trying to relate this. And these two Mexican guys with tattoos that looked like they were the leaders of gangs, they got up and they went to the center aisle and they started walking right towards me.

And I had a button in my pocket. All I had to do was hit this button. And it was an alarm. And then the guards would come in and rescue me. And I remember these two men walking up towards me, looking at me.

And I'm thinking, is it going to happen? Are they going to jump me? Because by the time the guards get to me, I'll be broken in 14 pieces. And so I was preaching and was aware where the button was and was ready to hit it if they were to have reached up and grabbed me.

And so here's my thoughts, right? This is what I'm thinking. And I'll never forget this. These two men walked right up to where I was, turned to my right, their left. I'm never going to forget this. And then, during the sermon, these two men got on their knees and put their elbows up on the stage and prayed during the rest of the entire sermon.

That people would, and I talked later, that people would receive the gospel message and the truth and come to Christ. I never, I will never forget it. And it certainly taught me a lot of things, I'll tell you.

Anyway, okay, there you go. Let's get to Bob from Nebraska. And then I want to get to Dave from North Carolina about Richard Dawkins' statement. That would be interesting. Okay, Bob, you're on the air.

Who Forgives Sins in John 20

Hey, thanks, Matt. So yesterday we were talking about whether, what Christ was talking about in the upper room. So I asked you if your sins, past, present, and future are forgiven. You referenced Colossians 2 .14.

And certainly, as a Catholic, I agree with that. And then Christ's forgiveness comes to us personally when we accept him as our Savior and trust in him. And that's your understanding of it. And then you also understand that you can't lose your salvation, right?

And so then we kind of got to John 20, 21 through 23. And I read it to you and you said, yeah. And you said, well, that's not actually what the Bible says. You said that he was not giving the apostles the authority to forgive sin.

He was telling them that their sins had already been forgiven. I think you said that the Greek translation is different. So let me explain if I could. It says, if you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven.

That's what's significant. Because have been is what's called the perfect tense. And it's called parsing when you analyze it, what part of the sentence it is. And this is the perfect passive indicative.

The perfect passive, perfect tense is I have been walking. The pluperfect is I had been walking. The perfect tense means it's a past action with continued effect and action in the present. I have been walking.

I still am. That's what that is. So if you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven. Now, wait a minute. What's he saying? Is he saying that by the authority of the apostles, that if they forgive, then their sins are forgiven?

Because what the apostles are doing. Then you've got problems. But he did. Yeah. Right. But if here's a question I ask Catholics, I say, if they go to John 20, 23, now say, so your priest had the authority to forgive sins.

And I'll say, some say yes. I said, if they forgive sins, is God obligated to follow what the priest did and forgive them? That's a question. Because where is the authority? Is it in Christ or is in the priesthood?

And there's no New Testament priesthood like this, which is another topic. Yeah. So the church teaches that it's in Christ. So that's who forgives the sins. But but you've left out part of John 20, verse 23.

And that is who sins you retain and retain. So what sins were retained by Christ on the cross? If we take your Greek translation as consistent throughout. It is. That's what the Greek says. There is also the passive perfect passive.

It's the same thing they have. So, yeah. So what what sins would have been retained then by Christ? Well, when you say retained, it doesn't say retained by Christ. It says retained. So got to be careful not to modify the word.

But this is what it actually says in the Greek. Okay. So if you forgive their sins or retain their sins, they have been. It's like saying they already have been. It's what the equivalent is. They already have been forgiven.

They already have been retained. In other words, with the with the apostles, it's not talking about apostolic authority being passed down. That has nothing to do there. What is talking about is the people who had this authority to represent Christ just as I can.

I'll say to people, if you've done this and you've repent and you've trust in Christ, your sins have been forgiven. That's all I'm doing. Oh, hold on. We've got a break. Okay, so hold on. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages.

Talking to Bob and then hopefully to Dave. Richard Dawkins statement. I'm looking forward to that one. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages.

It's Matt Slick live. Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Bob. Hey, Bob. You still there? Hello, Matt. Hello, Matt. So I can't remember exactly where we were when the commercial break came. But basically, what I was going to point out is that if we use your Greek translation, understand of John 20, 21 through 23.

And we also keep in mind other verses, such as Matthew 18, 15, 18 through 18, and then Matthew like 16, 19. We see a consistent granting of certain authority from Christ to certain humans that happen to be the apostles.

And the authority to bind and loose, the authority to settle disputes. And then, of course, on Easter, this authority granted in the upper room, which if we use your Greek translation, it says that Christ has already forgiven the sins on the cross.

And if we move that to the second half of that sentence, which it's basically the same, then Christ is, under your interpretation, retaining sins on the cross, which I don't think you believe. I don't know if that means to retain sins on the cross.

He bore our sins in his body on the cross, 1 Peter 2 .24. And on the cross is where you cancel the sin debt. So this idea of him retaining sins on the cross doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't make any sense to me either.

Well, I think you're not understanding the issue, or I'm not understanding what you're saying. But in Matthew 16, 18, you talked about this issue. I know that the Roman Catholic Church says that the authority was in the apostles and it is passed down.

Nothing in Scripture says that. Not a thing in Scripture says that. And when it says that, you know, you're Peter, upon this rock I'll build a church. Peter in the Greek there is Petros. And upon this rock, Petra, I'll build my church.

Petros is masculine. Petra is feminine. So if it's built upon Peter, then why is it that Jesus says upon this rock, Petra, I'll build my church? Well, it's a reference to himself. And we know that because in 1 Corinthians 10, 1 through 4, Paul talks about Jesus being the rock, Petra, that followed the Jews in the wilderness when they got out of Egypt.

So, well, but I didn't mention 16, 18. Yeah, I met. I mentioned Matthew 16, 19, which is where he says, I'll give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you bind on Earth shall be mounted in heaven.

And whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in heaven. So that's where the consistency is between John 20, 21 through 23 and Matthew 18, 15 through 18. Because there's this, you have a bad authority that Christ is obviously giving to human beings.