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Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ. Based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said,.

�But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you. In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Small Talk, Donuts, and Real Maple Syrup

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. Mike and Steve here, Steve and Mike. What if it was Steve or Psyche? That would be silly. That would be very silly. Anything you�ve done lately, Steve? Good records you�ve purchased or restaurants you�ve frequented, isn�t that the cool thing to do now on podcasts where we first talk about food and music?

Steve Kupryk Hmm, Cain�s Donuts, those are really good. Mike Abentroth Yeah, what kind did you get? Steve Kupryk I had the maple bacon, which I thought was good, but the killer was the creme brulee. I ate it and I just go, �I didn�t know a donut could taste this good.

Mike Abentroth Well, when I saw Cain�s advertisement and Top Donut Place and Bon Appetit and these kind of magazines, I thought Cain�s Donuts. It�s just like I don�t like to drive to Boston to get a Cain�s.

There�s Dunkin� Donuts right down the street.

Steve Kupryk. Oh, yeah, and they�re basically the same.

Mike Abentroth Well, if you microwave them, they�re all right.

Steve Kupryk. No, no, they�re not.

Mike Abentroth. I would eat a Dunkin� Donut if I had to or if I was going to offend someone if I didn�t, but otherwise, I don�t know. Maybe there�s a Cruella Croissant or something that might be good.

Steve Kupryk Yes, and it�s a pretty rare instance when this happens. If they have maple bars or some kind of maple donut, then I�m helpless. I cannot resist those imitation maple donuts. I love them.

Mike Abentroth. Steve, when I grew up, I was Aunt Jemima, fake, sugary syrup, and then living in New England now for 20 years. Again, if I was on the mission field or I was at someone�s house and they were serving me food, I wouldn�t fuss.

I would just bite my tongue, but to do anything less than real maple syrup is hard to do.

Steve Kupryk Yeah, I like real maple syrup. I grew up on depression syrup.

Mike Abentroth Well, my grandmother, Grandma Nona, that�s the lady who came up with the Hano phrase, she couldn�t afford syrup. She couldn�t even afford the Aunt Jemima, so it was, I think, brown sugar and who knows, some butter and a little water and you heat it up and make syrup.

Steve Kupryk I mean, I made it innumerable times, two parts of brown sugar, one part white sugar, you know, water, and then some maple imitation flavor.

Abortion, Personhood, and the Sanctity of Life

Mike Abentroth Steve, today on No Compromise Radio, I�d like to talk a little bit about a bulletin I picked up at a church in Santa Cruz. I�d like to spend time in Santa Cruz when I can because it�s a bastion of conservativism.

Steve Kupryk Good theology, yeah.

People don�t believe me when I say this, but when you enter the city, there�s actually a sign that says �a nuclear-free city.

Mike Abentroth. Steve, the other day, and I know this is off topic, we�ll get back onto this brochure in a second, I was riding my bicycle past Clinton Hospital, Clinton, Massachusetts. I think Clinton�s known for having more bars per capita, that is pubs and places that sell alcohol, than any other city in Massachusetts, at least it used to be.

Steve Kupryk. Well, every town has got to be known for something. Mike Abentroth. That�s right. And I drove past the hospital and it had the big sign �child safe zone. In other words, if you�d like to drop off a baby, an infant, a newborn, instead of flushing it down the toilet or discarding it on the side of the road, you could just walk into the ER, give the baby to them and walk away.

Baby safe zone. And I had just gotten done reading something about Planned Parenthood and the amount of money they receive and how they kill babies in the womb, and it was just all flashing through my mind at the same time.

And a car came and I about hit the car because I was paralyzed with kind of this mental horror of how can our society recognize if the baby�s out of the womb, we should protect the baby here, drop the baby off at Clinton Hospital.

But if there�s any part of the baby still within the mother, you can just do whatever you want to it. It was just mind-boggling to me.

Steve Kupryk. It�s pretty shocking. I mean, it�s shocking to me that anyone, anyone can support late-term abortion or partial birth abortion or any of these things, and you just think, okay, I can believe that somebody�s cold and callous enough to think that a little tiny baby that�s only been in the womb for a month or two, that that�s okay because people are sinful and they�re hard-hearted.

But when you�re like, you know, a few days away from delivery, how does that even click in your head? And, in fact, there are state laws in most of the states of this country where if a pregnant woman is shot, you know, it�s a double homicide if both of them die.

Well, why is that? Because we consider that baby a person. But it�s not a person if the mother doesn�t want it to be a person. I find that insane. Paul Jay. Even if they�re shot on the way to the.

Abortion clinic. Steve Kupryk. Yeah. Yeah. Paul Jay. Right. The mother could sue because it would be the murder of the child. Steve Kupryk Right.

And the DA could, you know, although I don�t know if they would if she was on her way to the abortion clinic, but they could charge a double homicide.

Paul Jay. Psalm 139, �Your eyes, speaking of God, your eyes, God, saw my unformed substance. In your book were written every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

It talks about being made in secret, intricately. Woven in the depths of the earth. Here God is making this child and then we, because of sexual freedom and rights, can just destroy the child. Steve, I find it fascinating when with your dog or my dog, you bring a little two-day old baby down to the level of a dog and they even instinctually know, instinctively know, be careful.

That�s a little newborn. Watch out. You know, you can have some big boxer or a St. Bernard, it too would know instinctively. And so, I mean, with humans, we too know. You know, teenagers know. Be careful with babies.

Grandpas know. You know, MMA fighters know. And what does this sin do? It�s so deplorable that you override all that. Any kind of natural, common grace and say, �Well, what I�m supposed to protect, I�ll.

Destroy. And just the capacity for ignoring I mean, I mentioned this friend of mine before. He has a he and his wife, he�s an unbeliever, he spent many years, he and his wife, trying to have babies.

And it was every single time we had a miscarriage, you know, it hurt. And they were, you know, totally pro-abortion and everything like that. And he goes, those experiences really changed his mind about abortion and, you know, really made him anti-abortion.

But it�s amazing how hard-hearted people can be, how wicked they can be, how they can see the least capable of defending themselves, an infant in the womb, as just not worthy of being protected or anything, you know, and in fact, easily disposed of.

Now, we are regenerate men now, and we used to think a certain way before God saved us. We had our minds changed about all kinds of things, and maybe this is one of them as well. I would like to take some of these unbelievers who are pro-choice and make them watch live one of these abortions to see if they would continue to believe what they believe.

Because in the veil of darkness and secrecy and, well, it�s not my body, that�s a lot of talk. But when you actually watch what would happen, I think many of them would change their mind, but they�re willfully ignorant.

Petey. Well, I can tell you what they say.

I don�t need to see that. And but, you know, as an experiment, here�s what I like to say. If I ask them first, would you be willing to watch, you know, open-heart surgery or something like that, they�re not going to be repulsed by it.

Well, why are they repulsed by the idea of watching an abortion? Why is that horrifying, right? It�s because they know that they�re going to see something they don�t want to see. It�s going to be like watching an execution, and they don�t want to do it.

Pastors, Elders, and Exemplary Leadership

Peter Steve, in the news recently, there�s been a pastor of a mega church, 30 ,000-member church in South Carolina, and he�s out of the ministry. I think the report was, according to CT, alcohol abuse.

That�s why he got fired. What about pastor, and with his bad theology, that was a good thing, probably, that he�s out. Pete Yeah, it was fine. Peter But what about pastors in general? When it comes to righteous lives, they�re sinners yet, you know, saints yet sinners simultaneously.

They have qualifications in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. How should we look at pastors? Aren�t they regular people, but we�ve got to factor in their leaders? What do we do when something like that happens, and how should we think of pastors and elders?

Pete. Well, I think there are two extremes, right? You can look at them and just say, well, they need to be perfect. There can�t be anything wrong with them ever. They can�t ever sin. And on the other hand, you can just say, well, they�re just regular guys, and whatever they do, you know, if I would do it, they can do it, and you know, it�s no big deal.

And I think we just need to look at them as they should be exemplary as much as a man can be, right? But we have to also acknowledge that they�re going to sin. It�s a question of what do they do when they sin and how grievous the sin is, I suppose, so.

Jared Now, I�m thinking out loud, Steve, because that�s kind of what we do on the radio. Steve Yes, we do. Jared. Would it be fair to say when you see a pastor or an elder or a leader in a church, you recognize that they do sin, they still struggle with self-righteousness and covetousness and pride and, you know, all kinds of things they struggle with.

They�re humans. They still struggle with the flesh, as Paul would use the term in Romans. But what if I tried to emulate? Shouldn�t they have things that I can emulate? And then they live by faith, and they have a desire to serve, and they�re quick to ask for forgiveness and reconciliation.

Is that a right approach when I look at their lives and say, these are some things that pertain to godliness that I should be mimicking?

I mean, I would especially jump on the forgiveness bandwagon. I mean, that should be the mark of any leader who, well, first of all, any leader who doesn�t think he sins needs to step down. But leaders need to be those who recognize their own faults and are willing to accept criticism and willing to say, you know what? I was wrong.

Would you please forgive me? They should be quick to do that kind of thing, recognizing that they are fallible. And so that would be a very good thing to do.

And does that not make the preacher, or should it not make the preacher talk a lot about the one who never sinned and who can grant forgiveness instead of talking about themselves all the time?

Pete Barber. Well, or just trying to lay down more rules and regulations for everybody else, you know? Let me give you some extra lar this morning.

That is why I love New England so much. I�ve been here such a long time. And I think I say �idear� sometimes, or �South Africa. It slips in there. But the lar, it is just the best.

It is the best. Pete Barber. You can look it up, L-A-W-R, lar.

Authentic Church Language and the Bulletin's “Safe Place” Marketing

Pete Barber. Authentic is the big word on this program, on this bulletin in Santa Cruz. And it says, �Real prayers, real people. So that�s how they advertise their church, and it shows a lady with a tattoo and a Bible at the beach.

I assume that�s Santa Cruz Beach, although the wave�s pretty small there.

Pete Barber Yeah, it�s low tide. Pete Barber Yes, very good. Authentic.

Real prayers, real people. Now, we don�t want fake in our church, I guess. That�s probably true. We don�t want fake prayers, fake people. But what I found that was so interesting, Steve, inside there�s a little postcard with some redwoods.

Of course, it�s Santa Cruz. And it says, �Starting point, a conversation about faith. When you flip it over, I do think I want to incorporate these things into no-compromise lingo now, because they�re starting points for people.

And starting points basically are conversational environments where you can explore faith and experience community. That�s what it says. It�s a safe place for you to ask questions and to learn about the Bible and Christianity.

So now we have safe places and special safe zones. They�re called churches. Steve I thought those were universities. Pete Barber I thought so, too. But here�s what I like. We have seekers, starters, and returners.

Now, when I first saw those, and we�re going to describe each of those very soon. Steve Well, those are biblical terms, aren�t they? Pete Barber Well, you know what I thought they were? I thought they were things at new restaurants.

They have these newfangled restaurants. And it�s the starter, it�s the appetizer, it�s the finisher, it�s the middler. That�s what I thought. I thought, you know, I have some seekers and some starters and returners.

It�s a perfect restaurant. Steve Can I have your seeker menu? You know, that�s what you start with, right? Pete Barber Okay. Seekers are curious about God, Jesus, the Bible, or Christianity. Steve Okay.

Pete Barber Thoughts? Steve Well, you know, one basic thought there, there�s no one who seeks after God.

Pete Barber That�s right. That�s Romans 3. And yet we would believe that from our perspective, when people ask questions and they�re conscientious about sin or forgiveness or want to talk about God, in fact, they could be trying to analyze it so they can reject it more, or maybe the Lord is drawing them.

Or you could say the Holy Spirit is convicting them.

Convicting them of sin and righteous judgment to come. We don�t know exactly, but those are the ways we could look at it. So, those are seekers curious about God, Jesus, the Bible, or Christianity.

Starters? Pete Barber We�ve only just begun. I mean, the Carpenters are just cued up.

Tavis. I hear the Carpenters quite often, but I have not heard them very much lately. I don�t know why. I must be listening to the wrong radio show.

Pete Barber. We heard them, where was that? Was it May when we were driving into Boston, I think on Monday, or someplace? Oh, I don�t know. But we heard, you know, Karen Carpenter, we�ve only just begun.

And my wife goes, every time I hear her voice, it�s just so clear.

Tavis Completely random. Tavis I was watching Dan Rather interview someone the other day, and it was a couple years old. And I�m not a big Dan Rather fan because I can hear my mom and dad during the Nixon era, they did not like Dan Rather at all, and Dan was always after Nixon.

And maybe he had some legitimate reasons to be after him. Dan Rather interviewed Jack White of the White Stripes. Pete Barber Oh, really? Tavis And Jack was talking all kinds of things about God. And then I clicked on the other YouTube down in the, you know, lineup there on the far right, and it�s Stephen Colbert, I�ve never seen his show once, talking to Jack White about the assumption of Mary when the Pope sits on the seat and officially speaks.

Ex cathedra. Pete Barber. So Jack White is a Protestant theologian, a guitar player, or a Roman Catholic?

Tavis Well, he grew up as Roman Catholic and thought about being a priest. So he has Pete Barber. Well, that explains a lot. Tavis He has a lot of kind of God talk. And I thought, man, this is weird.

Anyway, we have starters, and we have seekers, starters. Starters have just begun a relationship with Jesus. Now, of course, in no compromise world, we might say they�ve always had a relationship with Jesus because you start off as an enemy, your personal relationship with Jesus as enemy.

But, you know, okay, if you�re starting out, you have to learn some basics.

Pete Barber I guess starters is more politically correct than babies, right?

Like newborn babes. Tavis. Yeah, that�s right. Well, they all end in �ers. It�s kind of like Hebrews chapter 1. The writer has a few things where he does, he uses alliteration, and then he uses some endings that are the same.

And so I noticed this is like the �ers� endings. Pete Barber. Very nice.

And then we have returners. Pete Barber. Okay. So the guy who drops back on the punt and the kickoff is the returner. Tavis. Uh-huh.

Can you think of any of your favorite returners in football? Pete Barber. Oh, man.

It�s been so long. I mean, I can�t. Well, I mean, wait a sec. Anthony Davis.

Tavis Okay. My first returner, the first returner that I loved and got really excited about when I was understanding football at the very beginning of my football life, indoctrination. Pete Barber. Johnny Rogers.

Tavis. Well, that�s true. It was Johnny Rogers. He was a great returner. He returned kickoff sometimes, but mainly punts. And he could, man, woman, and child, let those things go. But it was Travis Williams, number 23 for the Green Bay Packers.

And I think he did 103 or 105-yard return one time. And when I had the game, the electronic football game, where they had the felt on the bottom and then it would vibrate, you know, it�s a� Pete Barber.

The passing was hard to do though.

How do you pass that little felt ball? Tavis. I could never even figure out what that whole thing. We turn it on. I go, this is really stupid. So I put all the guys out before. You can actually number each player.

Tavis Yeah. Pete Barber. And so I had the Packers. I had the Lions. I had the Vikings. And I had the Chicago Bears.

The whole central division. Totally.

And Packers, I loved the most. So I put all the players on the board before I gave them uniforms and found the one that had the fastest motion with the vibration. And that was number 23, Travis Williams.

So anyway, we have returners. They have some church experience, but have been away for a while. Tavis. Hmm. Pete Barber. We have safe places now. When we have churches with safe places, that's a fine how-do-you-do, as we used to say in Mississippi.

Tavis. Yeah, I don't think there should be any safe place within a church, right? You're there to either be comforted by the Holy Spirit, but I mean, you should not need protection from the Holy Spirit, right?

I mean, you want the Word to work on people.

This is exactly the opposite in my mind. This is the alternate universe that these people are living in, the Mirror, Mirror, Star Trek edition, where we've got the bad Spock and the bad Kirk and the bad Uhura and all those things.

This is the exact opposite. Here's one place. Shouldn't this be true, listeners? The one place where you're not safe. And I'm sorry, I'm not a big C .S. Lewis fan, but C .S. Lewis quotes are sneaking into my mind about Jesus has lots of things, but he's not as Mark.

Yeah, is he good? Yeah. Is he safe? You know, this is not a safe zone. This is where you go there and you think about how awful you are and wretched and sinful and who the first Adam was and how we are in Adam and all these other things.

And then you can see the greatness of Christ's salvation only when you can see the depth of your own depravity. This is not a safe zone. We are going to say, if you are trusting in anyone else besides Jesus, you're lost, you're damned, you're condemned.

That will destroy people's Friday nights or Sunday mornings. Pete. It'll wreck them. What are you proposing? Friday night services? Mark. It'll be some type of Lenten service. What does Lent mean, actually?

I mean, I know what they do during Lent, but is it Pete I think it means loaned.

Mark. Well, I was wondering Pete. Like if I lent you something, it means I loaned you something.

Mark Oh, so I'm loaning you some righteousness, some works of Pete I don't know what Lent means. Mark No, no, no, no, no, no. We have safe spaces, starting points. We have seekers, starters, returners, and lenders.

Pete Lenters. Mark Yeah, lenders. Pete Yeah, okay. Now, inside this little brochure, I find it fascinating, and this is a very popular brochure, I'm sure. Grief Share, a 13-week DVD series and grief recovery group, help and encouragement after the death of a spouse, child, family member, or friend.

I think it's going to be psychological, but shouldn't we actually minister to people who have such tragedies? How does a church minister, and what's your take on these 12-step grief share, those kind of things, grief recovery group?

Pete Well, I mean, I'm just against 12-step groups, period, having, you know, being a veteran of one.

Mark. Now, let's talk about that for a second, Steve, because it's such a fascinating thing, and, you know, it's at your expense. But seriously, at least, don't you think, we walk into an AA meeting, and you have to say, and correct me if I'm wrong, I've never been to one, my name is Mike Ebendroth, and I'm an alcoholic.

Pete Well, I've never been to an AA meeting, but I was at a, now I'm going to forget the name of it, but it was a psychological term that doesn't really mean a whole lot, codependence, codependence anomalous.

Mark Okay, and what did you have to say when you walked in? Pete My name's Steven, I'm a codependent. Hi, Steve, you know, tonight we're talking about, you know, step number whatever.

Mark. Well, I'm glad, Steve, that at least you have to admit, you know, too bad we can't walk into churches, and at least with a light bulb over our head, you know, I'm a sinner.

Pete. Yeah, hi, my name's Steve, and I'm a sinner.

Mark. Yeah, and I'm here to hear about the good news. So, I'm all for helping people with grief, and that's something that Christians need to get better at and not just throw them, you know, Romans 828 and say, get over it.

So, I'm all for grief counseling, grief help, grief discipleship.

Pete Listen, anybody who says Romans 828, get over it, either has no emotion for anything or has never experienced any loss or grief, because if you have, you know the pain that other people are feeling, and therefore, you should have empathy toward them.

Mark I think when we consider grief, at least this is what I've been doing over the years compared to what I used to do. I don't do anything. I just am there, give them a hug, you know, cry with them, I'm sorry.

You bring them some food, you sit around, you don't talk. We had a couple here, and they lost their twins at one day and three day old. I didn't, what could you say? I mean, if they say, I hate God, I would say, no, let's not talk like that, sweetheart, God can still be trusted.

Pete. Well, what can you say?

Can you say, I know how you feel? No, I don't. Pete. I mean, I'm sure that if I let myself imagine the worst pain that I've ever been in and then find some way to multiply that, well, I'm probably close, you know.

But yeah, it's just beyond our capacity to grasp.

Mark Bigger point here with these kind of brochures and programs and all that with the 12 steps, it just seems to go with it. Authentic, real prayers, real people. I'm not after grief stuff. I'm after the psychological stuff behind it.

Pete. Yeah, because I mean, the real, you know, where does the real peace come from? It comes only from the gospel, only from the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Closing Announcements and Ministry Information

Mike Avendroth, Steve Cooley, No Compromise Radio, info at nocompromiseradio .com. Don't forget, we're going to Reformation Tour next year. Hope you'll tag along. Pete. Join us.

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Avendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of God's Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.