A Response to John Mark Comer's "Clarification" RE: Creational Monotheism

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February 8, 2013

Chris Rosebrough of Fighting for the Faith (http://www.fightingforthefaith.com) responds to "clarifications" made by John Mark Comer RE: his teaching on Creational Monotheism. Rosebrough demonstrates that Comer is engaging in postmodern word games in order to create the false impression that he's a monotheist rather than a polytheist.

00:02: These are the sounds of the emergent postmodern philharmonic orchestra conducted by Doug Padgett and today we have a special treat
00:12: Sitting in with the orchestra is John Mark Homer of Solid Rock Church, Portland, Oregon He will be playing first chair cello today as they well, let the spirit guide them in their homage to the nihilistic philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche via Strauss's Fantastic work also
00:32: Sprach Zarathustra, and you'll notice that they have freed themselves from those limiting Definitions of notes and are just being led by the spirit to to play whatever just comes to them.
00:44: Oh, it's just Fantastic here listen to this Isn't that wonderful they don't have those little definitions of notes getting in the way of the spirit
00:59: Pooey on modernism we hate modernism modernism is stinky. This is better now
01:19: Now some of you may be surprised that I have put John Mark Comer in lumped him in with the well the emergent crowd the reason
01:28: I've done that is because of his recent Clarification and the way
01:34: I said that you should have seen me using my fingers to put air quotes around Clarification regarding whether or not he's teaching monotheism or Polytheism now before we get to that clarification.
01:47: We're going to actually do Something that needs to be done. Okay. We are going to spend a little bit of time looking at the definition of Words and there's a reason why we need to do this because once we get a solid
02:06: Understanding of the definition of particular words
02:11: We will be able to determine whether or not John Mark Comer of Solid Rock Church in Portland, Oregon has been teaching monotheism or Polytheism, okay now
02:25: So I'm gonna have to argue this like a prosecuting attorney, which by the way is not my favorite way to do things
02:31: But it's got to be done. Okay, so I would like to submit to you like exhibit a
02:37: Miriam Webster's Dictionary, okay, Miriam Webster's Dictionary, which you can find it M -w .com
02:43: when I go to the Miriam Webster's dictionary website and I type in the word
02:51: Polytheism, okay Polytheism is the word that we're looking for Here is the definition given by Miriam Webster's ready polytheism is the belief in or worship of More than one
03:08: God, let me read it again Polytheism is the belief in or worship of more than one
03:20: God Okay, it's real simple so if you believe in Yahweh Allah Shiva and Vishnu all different names of deities you are a
03:34: Polytheist, okay now I would like to submit to you then the next one and that is
03:42: Monotheism, okay monotheism according to Miriam Webster's dictionary, which again is found at M -w .com
03:50: Monotheism is defined as this Monotheism is the doctrine or belief that there is but one
03:58: God, okay Real simple, okay. So if you believe that there is only one
04:06: God you are a Monotheist if you believe that there is more than one
04:13: God even if it's two or three or a hundred you are a
04:19: Polytheist remember words have specific meanings now.
04:24: I know this sounds basic But there's a reason why I'm doing this, okay now
04:31: With these definitions in hand, we're going to ask ourselves a question.
04:37: I'm gonna go back and I'm going to play Selected sound quotes or sound bites from the sermon we reviewed
04:46: Recently here at fighting for the faith John Mark Comer, you know, what is it named?
04:52: Yahweh Elohim? That was the name of the sermon? Okay, and we're going to determine whether or not he was teaching monotheism or whether or not he was teaching polytheism and we're going to use as the
05:05: Indicator as whether of as to whether or not he was teaching monotheism or polytheism the definitions of Those words given by the
05:15: Miriam Webster's dictionary. Okay, so that way I mean, here's the deal Miriam Webster concocted their dictionary long
05:23: Before I came on the scene or John Mark Comer came on the scene Okay, because well words have specific meanings in the
05:31: English language. Okay now we're going to start off with John Mark Comer and we're gonna listen carefully to what we're gonna do here because there's several things we need to get from this particular
05:42: Quote, okay Here in this quote, he's gonna say we think the gods.
05:48: Okay, and then blank blank blank. Okay, you're gonna fill in the blank I want you to listen carefully to this segment from John Mark Comer sermon entitled
05:57: Yahweh Elohim We reviewed it in its entirety here at fighting for the faith and let's determine his theology based upon what?
06:06: John Mark Comer said here's what he said. We think the gods are powerful spiritual beings with Authority over kind of nations and the demons are lower level spiritual beings who work for the gods
06:21: That's kind of theory, but we kind of that's the consensus but whether or not that is true we know for sure that the
06:31: That the biblical authors are all making the same point. There is listen. There is one creator
06:38: God Who made the universe who spoke all that is real into existence
06:45: But there is a multiplicity of created gods or real Spiritual beings think of them as lesser gods or in the language of Gary Bashir's gods with a lowercase g.
06:57: Okay That's the quote. Let me play it again, and I'm gonna point out some things along the way
07:03: Okay, John Mark Comer from his sermon Yahweh Elohim said we think the gods listen again
07:10: We think the gods are Powerful spiritual beings with Authority over kind of nations and the demons are lower level spiritual beings who work for the gods
07:23: Okay. Now this is important. Okay. What did he just say? we think the gods are
07:31: Powerful spiritual beings and notice what he said and the demons work for the gods, okay now
07:42: Using our definitions of the word monotheism and polytheism given to us by a
07:51: Independent third party that would be Miriam Webster's dictionary Okay, again monotheism is the doctrine or belief in that there is but one
08:00: God Polytheism is the belief in or Worship of it doesn't matter if you worship more than one guy
08:07: It's the belief in or worship of more than one God Okay is
08:14: John Mark Comer according to those definitions teaching monotheism or Polytheism, okay.
08:23: Listen again We think the gods are powerful spiritual beings with Authority over kind of nations and the demons are lower level spiritual beings who work for the gods
08:39: That's kind of theory, but we kind of that's the consensus but whether or not that is true we know for sure that the
08:49: That the biblical authors are all making the same point. There is listen. There is one creator
08:56: God Who made the universe who's okay, so there's one
09:01: God right there Spoke all that is real into existence But there is a multiplicity of created gods or real spiritual beings think of them okay, so what he said there is one creator
09:15: God and a multiplicity of Created gods now again.
09:21: I have to make this point. He made the distinction earlier in this quote between those created gods and demons
09:32: That's what he said. The demons work for the gods we continue them as lesser gods or in the language of Gary Bashir's gods with a lowercase g and These gods have a measure of free will and autonomy just like human beings
09:48: They can obey God and serve God or they can rebel and fight God some love
09:54: God others hate God Some are good. Others are evil. But the fact is There is an invisible world all around you
10:02: That is just as real as the visible. Okay Now, what do we learn from this quote?
10:11: according to John Mark Homer We think this is his quote. I want to know who the we is here.
10:17: We think the gods Okay that these are powerful beings
10:25: Demons serve them Some of them are good Some of them are evil
10:33: Okay, so based upon what he's said here again the definition of the word monotheism is the doctrine or belief that there is but one
10:47: God Okay Polytheism is defined as the belief in or worship of more than one
10:57: God based on those definitions is John Mark Comer in this sermon teaching monotheism or Polytheism, let me play the quote again
11:10: I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but I want you to hear again what he said. We think the gods are powerful spiritual beings with Authority over kind of nations and the demons are lower -level spiritual beings who work for the gods
11:27: That's kind of theory, but we kind of that's the consensus but whether or not that is true we know for sure that the
11:37: That the biblical authors are all making the same point. There is listen. There is one creator
11:44: God Who Made the universe who spoke all that is real into existence but there is a multiplicity of created gods or real spiritual beings think of them as lesser gods or in the language of Gary Bashir's gods with a lowercase g and These gods have a measure of free will and autonomy just like human beings
12:07: They can obey God and serve God or they can rebel and fight God Some love
12:13: God others hate God some are good. Others are evil But the fact is there is an invisible world all around you
12:21: That is just as real as the visible. Okay Based on just that quote alone
12:30: It's very clear to me that if we go with the very specific definitions of the words monotheism and polytheism
12:40: That John Mark Comer in this sermon is teaching polytheism and it's important to note that he makes a distinction between demons and These gods which he's which whom he says some of them are good
13:00: Some of them are evil. Some of them love God. Some of them hate
13:05: God and the demons work for The gods they are created
13:11: Gods, that's what he said now since he mentioned Gary Jerry Bashir's Okay, I think it's important to bring something into and to play here
13:22: Jerry Bashir's is the man who co -authored with Mark Driscoll the book called doctrine what?
13:29: Christians should believe I want to make something very clear here that in this book
13:36: Jerry Bashir's is not teaching creational Monotheism.
13:41: Okay. In fact, I want to read to you a quote now if John Mark Comer had taught what's in this book regarding one true
13:50: God I'd have no beef with what he said But he didn't He taught that there is
13:58: Literally, if you were to kind of put the hierarchy in place, there's the Creator God Yahweh Underneath him are the created gods
14:08: Okay, these powerful spiritual beings the God some are good. Some are bad and beneath them since the demons serve them are
14:20: The demons and the angels and then humanity, okay But here's what
14:25: Jerry Bashir's co -wrote with Mark Driscoll You can find this in the book doctrine by the way starting about halfway down from Halfway down the page of page 13.
14:36: Here's what he wrote. Okay first there is only one
14:41: True God the Old Testament contains a number of clear statements that there is only
14:48: One God and then the footnote gives some fantastic Scriptural references that teach that there is only one
14:55: God Likewise the New Testament clearly states that there is only one God together the unendering unending thunderous chorus of scripture from beginning to end is that there is only one
15:10: God scripture also clearly teaches that there is no one like God scripture teaches that any claim to be like God is a satanic lie
15:22: Practically this means that in addition to there being only one Trinity and no other there is no other
15:28: God who is eternally Existent and uncreated all -powerful all -knowing or all -present
15:34: The biblical emphasis on the existence of only one true God Raises the question of what is to be made of the other quote gods?
15:44: Unquote that are worshipped by people in various religions in the days of the Bible and in our present day
15:50: The Bible states that these quote gods are very powerful fallen angels who rebelled against God They hate
16:00: Jesus and seek worshippers whom they reward if they serve them. Well, they perform powerful signs
16:06: Wonders and miracles and can deceive people into thinking that they are equal with God Practically, this means that they are incredibly powerful
16:16: Demons with names such as Ba 'al, Shemash, Molech, Brahman, Allah, Mother Earth, Mammon, and Aphrodite that are all wrongly worshipped by multitudes as gods
16:33: Okay. Now that's what Jerry Breshears Co -wrote with Mark Driscoll in the book called
16:38: Doctrine, which by the way was only published a few years ago in 2010 Okay. Now that's not what
16:46: John Mark Comer is teaching. Okay Let me play this quote again.
16:53: And I mean again Is he saying the same thing as Jerry Breshears says in Doctrine with Mark Driscoll?
16:59: Answer no He says something different. We think the gods are powerful spiritual beings with Authority over kind of nations and the demons are lower level spiritual beings who work for the gods
17:16: That's kind of theory, but we kind of that's the consensus but whether or not that is true we know for sure that the
17:26: That the biblical authors are all making the same point. There is listen. There is one creator
17:34: God Who made the universe who spoke all that is real into existence but there is a multiplicity of created gods or real spiritual beings think of them as lesser gods or in the language of Gary Breshears gods with a lowercase g and These gods have a measure of free will and autonomy just like human beings
17:57: They can obey God and serve God or they can rebel and fight God Some love
18:03: God others hate God some are good others are evil But the fact is there is an invisible world all around you
18:11: That is just as real as the visible. Okay, so Let me play another quote here.
18:19: Okay, and this and the reason I'm gonna play it in this order is because in this quote well,
18:25: John Mark Comer again makes a point of distinguishing between these
18:31: Created gods these powerful beings. He makes a distinction between them and Angels and demons listen in if the language of gods makes you nervous.
18:43: That's okay. I'm sorry for that Modern kind of Christians in the West prefer the language of angels and demons
18:49: Now there are two problems, okay There are two problems with that kind of language first off the language of angels and demons comes with all kinds of baggage from culture
18:58: By angels people think of blonde Swedish supermodels, you know with a 10 -foot wingspan
19:06: Right, and I'm sorry to break it to you. But every single angel in the Bible is male.
19:13: I Just ruined your Christmas decorations for next year. I'm sorry. All right
19:19: Um and by demons, you know, we think of the cartoon character on the you know shoulder with the pitchfork or Will Ferrell on Saturday Night Live or Whatever right?
19:29: I mean, that's how we think of angels and demons But the second problem is that the language that is used by the biblical authors at least in Hebrew at least in Genesis to Malachi Is Elohim or the gods and in the story of first Kings Solomon's heart is turned away
19:45: Not by a cartoon character on a shoulder, but by the gods
19:50: Okay, so He's arguing that We're not talking about fallen angels or demons
19:59: He's trying to make an argument that these are a different class of spiritual being altogether
20:08: And notice in the story turned away to Evil on that note turned to Psalm 82 to the right right to kind of smack -dab in the middle of the scriptures
20:19: Psalm 82 Okay this now by the way in the when I reviewed this entire sermon
20:24: I Demonstrated that what's going on in Psalm 82 is that God is judging human?
20:33: Basically heads of state kings and princes and stuff like that That's what this Psalm is really about but watch what he does with it.
20:39: This is going to blow your mind up Gosh, I get excited about weird things
20:46: Psalm 82 by the way this passage Psalm 82 is one of the favorite passages of the
20:53: Mormons who? are unashamedly polytheists It's a weird text.
21:01: It starts off some of ASAP starts off by saying God presides in and my
21:08: Bible says the Great Assembly if you're reading the ESV It's the Divine Council, which we think is a better way to Translate the text
21:16: God presides in the Divine Council which you read about right here you read about in Job 1 you read about in 2nd
21:23: Kings And it's all over the late literature of ancient Mesopotamia. It's all over Greek mythology think of Was that horrific movie a few years ago rise of the
21:34: Titans and that weird genre of movies of like Greek and Roman mythology and hard rock music.
21:39: It's really bad But you know, there's that scene with the gods I Liam Neeson and company who are up in the heavens having a conversation
21:50: About what to do and the earth is down below about what to do on the earth. Okay, that's the Divine Council That's what it's called in Greek mythology
21:57: Now the main difference between the Divine Council and kind of Greek mythology and Hebrew God bless you
22:05: You know which comes from the German gesundheit Which is which is what you would say because they thought a demon was leaving your body, which is great news for you right now anyway
22:17: That was great, yeah But the main difference between Greek between Greek mythology and Hebrew theology
22:30: Is that in Hebrew theology Yahweh is over the
22:35: Divine Council read the text God presides in the Great Assembly He renders judgment among the gods now my
22:44: Bible puts it in quotes in Hebrew There's no such thing. If you're reading the ESV or the New American Standard, it says rulers.
22:51: That's flat -out wrong in Hebrew It's Elohim presides in the Great Assembly. He renders judgments among the
22:57: Elohim What the heck? God renders judgments among the gods then listen to what
23:06: God Yahweh the Creator Says to the gods in the
23:12: Divine Council quote how long will you defend the unjust and show?
23:18: partiality to the wicked Defend the weak and the fatherless uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed
23:23: Rescue the weak and needy deliver them from the hand of the wicked Fascinating. What are the gods doing?
23:32: injustice Okay, I'm gonna say again pause it here based upon the specific definition of the word monotheism and the specific definition of the word polytheism, which is objective
23:49: It's outside of you. It's outside of me We're quoting an authority on what that those words mean is
23:56: John Mark Comer here teaching that there is more than one God or that there is only one
24:05: God That's the decision you have to make I'm hearing him and correct me if I'm wrong that he's arguing for the existence of more than one
24:18: God now granted Yahweh is the chief guy. He's the head of that.
24:23: He's the head honcho He's the super duper creator God who created the other gods and notice again
24:31: He makes a distinction between angels and Demons being gods.
24:37: He does not he does not equate the demons with gods here
24:42: What he's doing is basically saying that this is a completely different Level altogether and as he said earlier the demons serve the gods some are good
24:54: Some are bad some love Yahweh some hate him Okay, so is he teaching monotheism or polytheism based upon the specific definition of the word of those words?
25:09: Answer he's teaching flat -out Polytheism and he's not teaching the same thing that Jerry Brashear's Co -wrote in the book doctrine with Mark Driscoll, which by the way what he co -wrote in that segment
25:23: That's absolutely what the but what the Bible teaches there is no God, but one
25:29: There is only one God and anything that exalts itself to the status of God is that that's a satanic
25:36: Lie, those are that's Jerry Brashear's Those are his words
25:42: Unmistakably, so it makes me wonder has Jerry Brashear's changed his view has his theology
25:49: Evolved to where he now is a closet polytheist Well, let me go back a little bit in the sermon and play for you another segment
25:57: Why does Yahweh need a name? Well, according to John Mark Comer, there's a reason listen in The question for today is why does
26:06: God need a name in the first place? What's wrong with God?
26:12: And why is it that God is almost never called God in the scriptures almost never?
26:19: He's almost always called Yahweh Elohim or the Lord your God my
26:25: Bible right here The NIV says the Lord the Lord the gracious and compassionate God, but that's actually out of order in Hebrew It's Yahweh Yahweh Elohim or the
26:34: Lord the Lord God Gracious compassionate slow to anger on down the list. Why is that?
26:40: Why does God need a name? Short answer is because there are many gods
26:51: Monotheism or polytheism again, you know, I'd hate to be redundant here
26:56: But we live in a postmodern age where people play with the definitions of words Monotheism the doctrine or belief that there is but one
27:06: God polytheism the belief in or worship of More than one
27:14: God is he teaching monotheism or is he teaching polytheism?
27:21: Here's one more Sound bite quote for you to consider. He lays it out pretty succinctly here.
27:29: Listen in There are three world views that I bump into all the time In the city of Portland there are way more kind of across the globe
27:38: But three that I bump into all the time if you're taking notes the first next slide Is kind of model feet monotheism and it's the idea, you know the idea well that there is one
27:49: God and kind of the imagery of a mountain right gods at the top of the mountain and Jesus is how you get to God and all the other gods in the major world religions and Islam and Hinduism and all that stuff are
28:01: False gods and by that the majority of Western Europeans mean non kind of non entities
28:06: Okay, so is he teaching monotheism? Nope He says he runs there's three world views that he runs into all the time
28:14: One of them is monotheism the idea that there's one God and the other gods are false gods
28:22: He's distinguishing what he's teaching from Monotheism by his own admission what he's teaching is not
28:33: Monotheism listen again. There are three world views that I bump into all the time In the city of Portland, there are way more kind of across the globe
28:42: But three that I bump into all the time if you're taking notes the first next slide Is kind of model feet monotheism?
28:50: And it's the idea, you know the idea well that there is one God and kind of the imagery of a mountain right gods at the top of the mountain and Jesus is how you get to God and all the other gods in the major world religions and Islam and Hinduism and all that stuff are
29:05: False gods and by that the majority of Western Europeans mean non kind of non entities
29:10: I would argue that worldview is actually not the worldview of Jesus Okay, so he's distinguishing his position from monotheism using his own words
29:20: We can rule out that John Mark Comer is a monotheist the second world view
29:28: I bump into all the time is Kind of universalism, which is a junk drawer title.
29:34: I apologize for that Reality is that there are different people all around the world
29:41: Worshiping different gods which leads me to the worldview of Jesus and the scriptures next slide
29:49: The technical title in theology is creational Monotheism now, I'm gonna stop there
29:54: Universalism basically, you know all roads lead to the same God, you know He rejects that so he rejects
30:02: Monotheism he rejects Universalism, okay And now he's arguing for what he calls
30:12: Creational Monotheism, by the way, I made the statement on the issues etc radio program the other day and I'll make it here if your
30:22: Monotheism needs a modifier like the word Creational it isn't monotheism
30:28: It's a form of polytheism basically being trying to be smuggled into the language as if it is monotheism
30:35: So again, let me back this up just a little bit so you can hear his take on his view Which leads me to the worldview of Jesus and the scriptures next slide
30:46: The technical title in theology is creational Monotheism and it's the idea that there's not one mountain
30:53: There's many and Allah, I'm sorry Islam is the way to Allah and Buddhism is the way to Nirvana and Hinduism is the way to the
31:03: Brahman and Mormonism is the way to Elohim interesting That's the Mormon title for God and you have
31:09: Wicca and you have spirituality and that's a sample I mean you literally have however many dozens of mountains with dozens of gods and world religions and spirituality that is set up as the way to The gods but next slide there is one creator
31:28: God Who made all the others who spoke the universe into existence?
31:34: He's one creator God who made all the other Gods, he's called Yahweh in the
31:40: Hebrew scriptures or what you and I call the Old Testament He's called God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ in the writings of the
31:47: New Testament And this God next slide is nothing like the others this God comes down the mountain in Jesus he comes down the mountain in the incarnation of Jesus of Nazareth it's not that all paths lead up the same mountain
32:05: Universalism so there are different paths up different mountains and it's not that Jesus is the only way to God monotheism
32:14: He he is don't get me wrong. He is But it's more like he is
32:20: God come to us get the difference He is Yahweh think back to last week the creator of the universe
32:30: Born in flesh and blood. He is Yahweh come to you and me
32:36: That is the gospel of Jesus and that I would argue is the worldview of Jesus and the scriptures
32:42: Okay so Quick question is John Mark Comer based upon the definitions given to us by an objective third party
32:54: Miriam Webster's polytheism the belief in or worship of More than one
33:02: God is he a polytheist or is he a monotheist the doctrine of belief that there is but one
33:09: God Answer based upon his own words based upon what he taught
33:17: There is no other conclusion that you can draw Then that John Mark Comer taught polytheism the belief in More than one
33:32: God even though he's saying we need to only worship the creator God He teaches the existence of more than one
33:40: God and What we heard from his own mouth He taught this
33:46: I didn't force him to say these words Nobody was holding a gun to his head. He did this of his own volition he said that the demons serve the gods and That there are good gods and there are bad gods
34:03: There are gods who love Yahweh and there are gods who hate him and that God sits as the head of the council of the gods and He's not talking about Demons Okay With all of that now as our backdrop
34:26: Okay, we now come to John Mark Comer's Recently published on his
34:34: Facebook wall Clarification about this controversy
34:41: Okay, and remember words have specific meanings
34:47: Here's what John Comer John Mark Comer wrote solid rock family
34:54: Some of you have been asking some great questions about my recent teaching Yahweh Elohim and solid rocks theology to clarify
35:04: We are not polytheists we are Monotheists we believe there is one real true
35:14: Creator God with no equal or parallel by using the language of Creational monotheism we are saying there are real spiritual beings in the universe
35:26: Under the Creator God Yahweh the demonic powers we read about in the scriptures are not
35:32: Non -entities, but are real the New Testament calls them demons angels spirits powers princes and principalities
35:40: But the primary Hebrew word used in the Old Testament is Elohim or gods These beings are gods with a lowercase
35:48: G. They are not on par with the Creator God Yahweh The they are created but have rebelled against their creator to wreak havoc on the earth
35:57: This is the worldview of Jesus and of the scriptures by using the language of creational monotheism versus modern monotheism we are challenging the post
36:08: Enlightenment Western European View of monotheism from the last 300 years that says there are no other spiritual beings in the universe
36:17: We don't buy it and we don't think Jesus does either at solid rock It is our deepest conviction to know and pursue the ways of Jesus To understand and adopt his way of thinking and his worldview stay rooted in the scriptures
36:31: Keep asking questions and above all follow the Creator God in Jesus Now that was his
36:39: Clarification But you'll notice what happened there
36:45: His clarification glossed over what he said and in some cases reinforced what he said remember the definition of polytheism is belief in or worship of more than one
37:02: God That's polytheism Monotheism is the doctrine or belief that there is but one
37:11: God in his Clarification. I'm going to read to a section of it again.
37:17: Is he affirming monotheism or teaching polytheism
37:23: Here's what he says We believe there is one real true Creator God with no equal or parallel By using the language of creational monotheism
37:35: We are saying there are real spiritual beings in the universe under the Creator God Yahweh Now remember he made a distinction between demons and gods
37:48: Let me play it for you again, so that there is no confusion whatsoever about what he said we think the gods are powerful spiritual beings with Authority over kind of nations and the demons are lower level spiritual beings who work for the gods
38:07: That's kind of theory, but we kind of that's the consensus but whether or not that is true we know for sure that the
38:17: That the biblical authors are all making the same point. There is listen. There is one
38:24: Creator God Who made the universe who spoke all that is real into existence but there is a multiplicity of created gods or real spiritual beings think of them as lesser gods or in the language of Gary Brashear's gods with a lowercase g and These gods have a measure of free will and autonomy just like human beings
38:48: They can obey God and serve God or they can rebel and fight God Some love
38:54: God others hate God some are good others are evil But the fact is there is an invisible world all around you
39:02: That is just as real as the visible. Okay now
39:09: This actually folds rather nicely with what he's what you know His clarification is just a reiteration of what he said.
39:17: We believe there is one real True Creator God with no equal right because he's the Creator God by using the language of creational monotheism
39:25: We are saying there are real spiritual beings in the universe under the Creator God the demonic powers
39:30: We read about in the scriptures are not non entities, but are real now again. I point out that I read I quoted that for you because Not not once but twice
39:39: He makes a distinction between demons and the gods and even went so far as to say that the demons
39:46: Serve the gods Okay, so basically what we're dealing with here is
39:53: John Mark Comer Claiming to not be a polytheist or to put it bluntly
40:00: I he basically saying I'm a monotheist who believes in more than one God That's not monotheism
40:09: That's polytheism and on top of it He says that the modern mono the modern concept of monotheism is that Here's what he says
40:18: Western European view of monotheism from the last 300 years says that there's no other spiritual beings in the universe
40:24: What are you talking about? What are you talking about? Are you talking about the deists?
40:32: I? mean Christian monotheism has always taught that there is one God and that These so -called gods are demons
40:42: Basically masquerading as gods, but they're not really gods. They're they're satanic beings
40:48: Angels demons you get what I'm talking about here. So I mean not only not only is he
40:54: Engaging in postmodern obfuscation basically arguing listen. I'm a monotheist who believes in more than one
41:00: God These are not gods who are equal to the Creator God whether or not they're equal by the way has nothing to do with it
41:05: That has absolutely nothing to do with it. By the way in the ancient Greco -Roman world Okay, they were polytheists
41:12: Zeus was the the chief of the gods right the chief of the Olympians They had this pantheon of all kinds of deities and some were more powerful than others they even had a deity that they that that you could make offerings to who was the deity who could cure your house of Common mold and fungus
41:33: Okay, there was literally a Greco -Roman You know God of mold and fungus now
41:39: No one would argue that that God, you know even though it was supposedly in their way of thinking a deity was on par with our had the same status or power or Authority as Zeus Okay, that's not the issue
41:54: Polytheism is the belief in more than one God It doesn't have to be the worship of more than one
42:02: God nor does polytheism Say that I believe in more than one God and they are all of equal status the what makes you a polytheist by definition is whether or not you believe in the existence of more than one
42:18: God and John Mark Comer is engaging in obfuscation He's engaging in obfuscation and what this reminds me of it.
42:27: Well is a couple of things See if this sounds familiar to you, but I want to say one thing to the
42:33: American people. I Want you to listen to me? I'm gonna say this again. I Did not have sexual relations with that woman miss
42:43: Lewinsky Remember that one. Yeah, that's a former president
42:49: Bill Clinton During the whole Lewinsky scandal and he swore up and down and you know that he was telling the truth
42:57: Remember, but I want to say one thing to the American people. I Want you to listen to me?
43:03: I'm gonna say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that woman
43:10: Miss Lewinsky now despite the fact that mmm They didn't actually have intercourse
43:18: They engaged in a well, they engaged in behavior that resulted in a
43:25: Well as genetic material being Left on miss
43:32: Lewinsky's blue dress, but he did not have Sexual relations with that woman miss
43:38: Lewinsky remember This is postmodern word games That Bill Clinton engaged in let me give you another example of post
43:47: Modern word games see if this rings a bell. This was from January of last year now
43:54: I wasn't allowed to it view this while it was happening, but I eventually got to see it. But listen to this
44:00: This is Mark Driscoll and TD Jake's discussing whether or not TD Jake's believes in one
44:06: God and three persons or one God three manifestations listen
44:14: Well, we also would agree in the nature of God There's mystery and it's like a dimmer switch, you know, how much certainty how much mystery?
44:22: Thank you But within that Bishop Jake's for you, you know the issue between Trinitarianism and modalism at its essence is one
44:31: God manifesting himself successively in three ways or one God three persons
44:39: Simultaneously Existing eternally so so the question that was put to Jake's do you believe in one
44:45: God? manifesting himself in three ways or one God in three persons because remember modalists
44:54: Believe that there's one God who's manifested himself in three ways
45:00: Father Son and Holy Spirit, but there's that the one God there's only one person. It's like basically changing costumes
45:08: Listen to the answer your best understanding now, and I understand there is some mystery for sure.
45:14: Would you say it's one God? manifesting himself in three ways or one God in three persons
45:20: But I believe that neither one of them totally get it for me, but I think the latter one is it's where I stand today
45:27: Three persons. No one God three persons now. Everybody was you know excited?
45:33: Oh, we got TV Jake's to say he believes in one God three persons But don't don't rejoice too quickly one got three persons and here here is why
45:41: I am there I'm not crazy about the word persons and this is most people who know me know that that is really my doctrinal statement is no different from yours except for the
45:52: Manifest instead of persons which you described as modalists and I described as Pauline So I believe in one
46:01: God in three persons as long as by that you understand I mean manifestation came in other words
46:09: TD Jake's was engaging in a same kind of postmodern wordplay that Bill Clinton was engaging in TD Jake's He believes in one
46:20: God three persons as long as by that you mean Manifestations Bill Clinton, you know, he didn't actually have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky Because he was narrowly defining and kind of playing with the the term sexual relations
46:40: Well, John Mark Comer is engaging in the exact same Same tactic he's a monotheist
46:49: Well who believes that there's more than one God so he's a monotheist and he's not a polytheist, but he's a monotheist who believes in more than one
46:59: God and Argues for the existence of more than one God, but see those gods are not on the same par as the
47:05: Creator God But he's a monotheist So he's a monotheist in the same way that TD Jake's is a
47:13: Trinitarian You get it This is all nothing more than postmodern obfuscation and word games and the reason that they're able to get away with this is because in our postmodern society
47:30: We've become used to People who play these kinds of word games
47:37: But the thing is is that there is no such thing as a monotheist who believes in more than one
47:43: God because Monotheism is the doctrine that there is but one
47:49: God What polytheism is the belief in or worship of?
47:57: more than one God and by John Mark Comer's own teaching his own definition his own words
48:09: He believes that there are Created gods that are different and distinct from Demons and the demons serve those gods and though in those gods have free will
48:24: Some of them are good Some of them are bad Some of them love
48:30: Yahweh some of them hate Yahweh in other words
48:36: John Mark Comer in his Clarification is basically claiming. I am a monotheist not a polytheist, but I'm a monotheist who believes in more than one
48:48: God Get it This is nothing more than postmodern word games and Obfuscation and what
48:59: John Mark Comer needs to do right now is repent and that's not what he's doing
49:05: He's been caught with his hand in the cookie jar He's been caught teaching polytheism much the same way
49:13: While Bill Clinton was caught having an affair with Monica Lewinsky He's been caught teaching polytheism and now he's engaging in a postmodern obfuscation word game in order to basically not have to admit and Confess that he's been teaching polytheism
49:39: That's not what a Christian pastor would do What he needs to do is
49:46: Own what he's said. He needs to say. Yep. I Said this we think the gods are powerful spiritual beings with Authority over kind of nations and the demons are lower -level spiritual beings who work for the gods
50:08: That's kind of theory, but we kind of that's the consensus but whether or not that is true we know for sure that the
50:18: That the biblical authors are all making the same point. There is listen. There is one creator
50:25: God Who made the universe who spoke all that is real into existence but there is a multiplicity of created gods or real spiritual beings think of them as lesser gods or in the language of Gary Beshears gods with a lowercase g and These gods have a measure of free will and autonomy just like human beings
50:49: They can obey God and serve God or they can rebel and fight God Some love
50:55: God others hate God some are good. Others are evil But the fact is there is an invisible world all around you
51:03: That is just as real as the visible So what John Mark Homer needs to do right now is he needs to confess that?
51:14: That is what he said. He needs to confess that he was teaching polytheism and He needs to say and I was wrong.
51:28: He needs to say Isaiah 4310 is very clear Yahweh himself says before me no
51:37: God was formed Nor shall there be any after me
51:43: So John Mark Homer needs to say. Yes. I taught polytheism. I was an error.
51:50: I Apologize I repent I recant and renounce my polytheistic teaching that's not what
52:02: Scripture says I Repent and I affirm that there is only one
52:09: God there is no other That's what he needs to do. He needs to do it publicly and he needs to do it unequivocally and he needs to own
52:20: What he's said anything short of that is flat -out
52:29: Obfuscation and spin control on his part if he does not confess to what he said
52:37: Admit that it's polytheism repent and recant of it and ask for forgiveness
52:45: Then we must continue to believe That he is teaching polytheism
52:53: Because this little postmodern word game by saying I am a monotheist not a polytheist, but I believe in more than one
53:00: God Doesn't fly. It doesn't it doesn't wash That's a game
53:06: That's false teaching as well. And that's not what we're called to do as Christians you either pick
53:13: Monotheism or polytheism, but don't sit there and say that your polytheism and but is monotheism by engaging in postmodern obfuscation
53:21: We saw that from Bill Clinton. We saw that from TD Jake's now We're seeing it from John Mark Comer.
53:27: And if you attend his church You must insist that he publicly admit to what he said publicly recant and Confess and say the same thing as scripture that before Yahweh no
53:42: God was formed nor will there be any after him There's no middle of the road on this none whatsoever and his clarification
53:52: Wasn't clarification at all. It was a smoke screen Okay, we're up on our second break
54:00: Quick break pay some bills when we come back We'll be listening to a fantastic sermon by pastor
54:06: Gervase Nicholas Edward charm charm Lee Entitled a gospel for dogs.
54:11: No, we're not talking about Fido or Wolfer or anything like that. We're talking about The Syrophoenician woman.