Season 2 Ep 1 The Here I Stand Theology Podcast - Religion & Politics and how the Gospel relates to both

Christ Came Into the World to Save Sinners

Here I stand. Will you recant or will you not? Since your majesty and your lordships desire a simple. Reply, unless by scripture, they reason popes and councils who have so often contradicted themselves.

Right. You're safe.

Welcome to the Here I Stand Theology podcast. We are a podcast devoted to a pointed and spirited debate of biblical doctrine. Welcome to 2022. We have two special guests on today. We have the pirates of the pirate Christian media, Chris Roseborough and Josh, or if he's in trouble, Joshua Roseborough.

Don't know his middle name,.

But we all know Joshua Michael Roseborough when he's in trouble.

Joshua Michael Roseborough is in the house. J M that's a good theology name there. We want to let our audience know today that the, the Here I Stand Theology podcast is accountable to the congregation to which we serve at Rev. Ramada Baptist church.

So we are under the authority of our elders at the church as well. And anything that is said and done should be a representation of Rev. Ramada Baptist church. If you have a issue or a concern or a problem, if you want to rebuke us, call us, if it's biblical, we'll repent.

If not, he's on down the road. Let's stick to the word. All right, guys. So let's play you in with a special clip and then we'll get right to things here today.

John Newton once said the following, it is impossible that either men or angels can fully sound the depth of this one sentence that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners.

So if we apply, the conclusion is weak of politicians. The church is weak where Christ's ministers once said.

The following, it is impossible that either men or angels can fully sound the depth of this one sentence that Jesus Christ came into the.

World to save sinners. Now here's something, minister, listen to me again. We have this present tense idea. Keep on commanding and teaching and notice that if you put these two.

Together,.

We're talking about teaching with authority and you can not teach with authority based on your position or office. You teach with authority only to the degree that you correctly interpret and communicate God's word and boom.

Let's begin by holding this up and reminding everybody roll tide. Yeah.

Funny thing about the whole roll tide thing. The very first submarine I actually went out on was the USS Alabama.

Cool. So, so was there some kind of thing where when you boarded, you had to say roll tide?

There was some roll tide iconography that was about the boat. It was very much of like, yeah, roll tide, you know, that kind of thing. It's not like the movie Crimson Tide where they're, you know, they're standing on a pier and drenched rain and stuff like that and going, it's like somebody like, you get these guys inside, you're soaking wet.

That was a good movie, by the way. So Chris and Josh are in a very, very cold place right now. Guys, tell us what's going on there. On your part of the U S.

So we got about two feet of snow on the ground. And yesterday we woke up in the, the low overnight was 30 below zero Fahrenheit. So it's, it's warmed up to a, well, three degrees today. It's right now it's three.

We're breaking up the suntan lotion.

Yeah, that's right. I got shorts on in a tank top here in a minute,.

But.

So, so Josh earlier said that there was, well, about a 100 degree difference between the inside and the outside of your houses.

That's right. It was at the house interior for 70 degrees. And it was about negative 33 to negative 36 as 133 to 36 degree difference between the outside of your home and the interior, which has just a terrifying thought, especially when your heat goes out like it did for me.

Oh my, how long was it out for?

It was practically the entire day. Uh, we had a, we had to call a guy in and, um, get it. Like one of the electrical relays had burned out. So, but I was able to, once I cycled power to the darn boiler, we were able to get some heat back in the house, but it was starting to get dangerously low.

Well, I'm glad to hear you've got power again or heat again. Oh yeah. So, um, um, we'll get right to it here. Um, would you all like to just kind of rip? We'll, we'll just reminisce, uh, about the joy in the victories and the defeats of the past year, uh, before we get to the religion and the politics, let's, let's just be, let's just talk personal for a moment.

Um, what are some victories and some defeats that y 'all feel and some struggles y 'all feel like you had this past year, starting with Chris?

A Year of Ministry, Suffering, and Predictable Work

So, uh, so, uh, man, this is kind of an interesting thing. I would say that a big victory was the ability to just be in the grind, uh, in serving my neighbor as, uh, as a pirate and a pastor. And, uh, and so, uh, although I started off last year with, uh, COVID, uh, you know, that, that was loads of fun.

I don't recommend that. If you can avoid it, do it. Uh, but, uh, the, the one thing I could say about 2021 is that it was just gloriously predictable as far as my workload is concerned and the people that we were serving.

And, uh, the Lord continues to bring, uh, people to, uh, the congregations that I serve, uh, so that they can hear the gospel, so they can be confronted with their sins and, uh, have the assurance, uh, that Christ has bled and died for them and then be grounded in the basics of the Christian faith.

So, uh, 2021 for me was just wonderfully, uh, normal, predictable, and, uh, and just a good grind. So.

Awesome. So can I, can I ask you a quick question? Because I've, I've noticed this, uh, over time, cause I, you know, I catch every one of your episodes, uh, but when you, you use the term, uh, in plural congregation.

So do you serve more than the one Kongsbinger?

Yeah, that's right. I, so I, I serve two physical congregations in Minnesota, Kongsbinger Lutheran church in Oslo and, uh, rate, uh, in Radium, Minnesota, I serve a small congregation as well. That's in the Missouri Synod, uh, Emmanuel Lutheran church.

And then, uh, we have people that we serve around the world online in, uh, in kind of a virtual congregation that is lovingly referred to as Aletheia Lutheran. And so, uh, my weekends are spent, uh, pretty much the whole weekend, Saturdays and Sundays preaching and teaching, uh, just depending on which of the congregations that we're serving and the folks that we serve online, many of them are geographically disconnected from, uh, being able to attend a solid church.

Like, uh, you know, so we have people who live out in the Bush and in Australia, some folks who live in, uh, you know, in different parts of the world or where their, their choices are like liberalism, Roman Catholicism or crazy charismatic.

They don't really have much as far as options are concerned. And so, uh, we serve them via the internet, uh, because, uh, we're able to do that nowadays. But, uh, you know, but, uh, if, if they, if they're able to find a, you know, physical congregation, that's, that's a better solution than the internet, but we serve all of those people, you know, you know, weekend and week out.

So.

Wow. Well, that, that makes me even more thankful for your ministry, sir. I appreciate it. That's a blessing. Uh, you don't, you don't hear a lot about, um, you know, a multi-congregational pastor, at least in the, in the back where I'm from in the Baptist reformed Baptist world, you know, you don't hear about that much, uh, had a brother-in-law years ago served two congregations.

I mean, he would go on Sunday from one to the other like that.

And, uh, so within confessional Lutheranism, there's a shortage of pastors and especially in places like a rural North Dakota, rural Minnesota. Um, many of the pastors that I have as friends, they don't have the luxury of only serving in one congregation.

I, you know, I, in fact, I have a close friend in the ministry. He serves three local congregations. And so he, you know, he travels between the three churches, uh, you know, on every, on every given Sunday.

And that's just, it's kind of like an all hands on deck kind of thing. So, um, you know, the luxury of serving one small congregation that, that, that, that's a luxury none of us have anymore. So,.

Well, how about you, Josh?

Uh, me, I mean, this last year, I got COVID around the same time as my father did. So we got to suffer through that madness. Would not recommend zero out of 10. It's, uh, it's, it's stinketh. Um,.

By now, by now it surely stinketh.

Exactly. Um, so some of the, some of the things I got to do this year, uh, not only did I get to attend my brother-in-law's wedding, but one of my, uh, one of my best friends that I have got married and I was able to go out into, uh, California, uh, during the middle of the year and go back.

It's the first time I've been back to California in like 12 years. And that was the state I grew up in. So it was, it was a little bit of a blast of the past, but I, and I thoroughly enjoyed my time there.

I got to go to a bachelor party. It was, it was, it was nice to get out of the house, even in midst 2021 with all of the lockdown madness, I still found time to visit friends and family, which was, which was very much a blessing.

And so I'm very grateful for that. I've, you know, I've also been, this was the first full year that we've done, uh, video production work for the church. Uh, I have a camera set up. I record every, every Sunday audio.

I've been doing audio for six years now, practically. And so it's only been within this last year that we've done just, you know, as video as well for the entire year, because when we try to fire that up in 2020, that was when the lockdown hit and then everyone went, you even, we've been chugging along.

We have a YouTube channel for Kong's being or Lutheran has like 1400 subscribers right now. We don't really make a big deal out of it because you know, I don't really feel like getting the, um, the wrong people on the trail and being like, we got to shut it down.

So.

For people to find and enjoy.

Just what your dad would need hecklers coming in the congregation and then you'll have to bounce them out.

Yeah. Thankfully they have it. You know, you have to really know where you're going to find Kong's finger. Um, no one is just accidentally passing through. So kind of geographically we're a little protected there, but it's really easy to have internet trolls.

And let's just say there's some people out there who have some really weird ideas about what I believe. So it's, you know, Jesuit or something. I did just the weirdest stuff. So.

The usual, the usual riff raff, one of, one of our biggest attractors, at least on our YouTube channel right now is a guy that basically is saying.

There was nobody in the church. You can hear the tumbleweed going through the building.

Laying to him that, you know, it's like, you know, it, the Lutherans, they always sit in the back pews. I mean, you know, if a Lutheran sits in the front queue, we suspect that they've been, uh, you know, influenced by a false prophet and they're going charismatic, you know, so.

Oh my.

Oh, you, you mentioned the, uh, trolls and all that. Um, I actually I'll just, I'll just come out and say it. I troll a local, um, cesspool of heretical sewage in our, in our town, right outside our town.

Uh, it's called the well.

It's a godly vocation trolling those who would twist.

Oh, I've heard of the well. I've heard of them. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. They call themselves a revival hub. I'm actually getting ready to do a video on the, on the sermon from the guy that preached two weeks ago. I, I did one several months back cause I have to, I can't like their page on Facebook or anything because they'll end up blocking me.

So, but, um, I mean, it's, it, it, it is with without a doubt unequivocal that not only did they not preach the gospel because they're all about casting out demons and prophecy and all this other stuff, unbiblical prophecy.

They do not even know what the gospel is. And it's, I mean, it's both angering and heartbreaking at the same time.

Yeah. A friend, a really close friend of mine who you guys would know, he recently had a conversation with a woman claiming that she's a prophetess and in her conversation with him, she, uh, she acknowledged that she doesn't really know the Bible very well.

And when he challenged her regarding the gospel and says, are you, are you familiar with John three 16? She'd never even heard the verse before. And he said, you know, God so loved the world that he, and she couldn't, she says, yeah, I don't really know the Bible that well, but she, she claims that it's direct revelation from God, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is where biblical terminology well-defined is so important in the church age today. Oh man. All right. So, so again, to our listeners, they should know you, but if you, if they don't go over to fighting for the faith on YouTube, soon as you're done with this video,.

Take blood pressure meds before watching any of our content.

And if you have time, make a tinfoil pyramid hat, it'll help, uh, keep from the bizarre stuff we cover and fuzzy and fuzzy bunny slippers. Absolutely. Those are mandatory.

I noticed though that you all had those. I don't know if you're still, that store's still up, but I remember a while back looking in, you all got those on your side.

Yeah, we did have them for a long time. It's been a long time since I've really kind of focused on them. Although every now and then I let people know what I'm researching. And if I take a photo of my screen, you know, and, and who I'm researching, I'll put the fuzzy bunny slippers on so that, uh, and they're in the shot,.

You know?

Oh, all right. So let's, let's get to it. Let's discuss starting. We'll start in, um, actually. Josh, what was the title that you said we should have put on this episode?

What your Thanksgiving dinner should have been or what your Thanksgiving conversation dinner conversation should have been or something like that.

It's yeah, right. Um, so we are going to be discussing today, uh, religion and politics, the faux pas, seemingly to everyone who seems like they know what they're talking about. But, uh, we're going to discuss some of the larger, more prevalent events, particularly, uh, in, we're just going to make it simple.

We're just going to go to the first, we're just going to look at some of the events in the first quarter of 2020, or I'm sorry, this is 2022, 2021. So we're going to look at just a few events there. And, um, these got where we, we want these guys to give us their input.

We're here to listen to them today in any way. So, uh, well again, we're only going to touch on the first three months. And, uh, uh, actually the latter portion, we, we may talk a little bit about it as well.

The Kyle Rittenhouse trial and the Jesse Smollett trial. Um, I still think of the blazing saddles meme, the guy holding the gun on himself. Yeah, there we go. We have already broken the woke code.

Well, the fact that we're all three straight men who are, um, white means that we we've already broken the code along from the very beginning, from the moment you hit record. So who cares?

We're mansplaining all of this stuff too. So, you know, you know, the feminists can't handle what we're doing here now.

Exactly. So for the feminists that may have, I'm just kidding. So, um, I think each of these things will demonstrate, uh, with, I like to try to use big words from time to time with purposcuity. And I still wonder to this day why purposcuity means clarity when purposcuity itself does not seem to be clear, but we'll understand with purposcuity that the world in which we live today is, as the kids would say, cray cray.

All right. I should probably have my man card revoked just for saying that right there.

No, no, no. It's about par with anything I hear out of the pulpit on any given Sunday.

Yeah. I tried that myself too. And I always get the weird, awkward looks from, you know, the young and.

He lives for it. You know, you know, you just sit there and go, yeah, how can I make them cringe today and give them the gospel?

We are kindred spirits brothers. Let's let's begin with January 6th, 2021. Pro Trump riders stormed the U S Capitol on the day Congress was voting to approve president Joe Biden's victory in the 2020 election.

Josh, you seem like you're busting at the seams. Give us some commentary on that.

Okay. This was, this was a context or whatever. I I've seen, I've seen posts today that there are liberal groups that are holding vigils, you know, on, on January 6th this year to commemorate the one year of the horrible, like the worst thing that since nine 11, like that's the rhetoric that people are using.

Um, okay. So just for, just for my own, for my own sanity here, I'll say this, uh, January six was not a good day. It it's objectively not a good day. Like they should not have entered the Capitol building with, with the intent of harming or intimidating the politicians.

All right. That's, that's a bad thing. And I will state this, that what BLM and Antifa did for a solid year, we're talking a solid year of writing, burning down businesses, low-income housing, um, assaulting people in the streets.

There was, there was, there's, um, stories coming out of Oregon where, uh, an Antifa member shot a Trump supporter in cold blood with a pistol. And then there was on, I think it was either vice or Buzzfeed or wherever and had a puff piece written about him, about how such, how, how good of a person they were, you know, and, and this forces, you know, the, the FBI came down on him, they had to shoot him.

He's dead, this, that, and the other. And then the, the, and then of course, even back then it's when Kyle Rittenhouse had to defend himself with an AR 15 because a, uh, um, uh, uh, a fan of struggle snuggling with children decided to touch him without his, um, uh, without his consent and died because of it.

And then he was chased down by a wife beater and a self-proclaimed communist, uh, both of which were shot. Only another person died, but the one person had their bicep blown off. Um, and then there was the whole trial and, you know, in 2021 and all that junk.

But the deal is, is that everything leading up to January six was just escalation of force, escalation of force, escalation of force. And it was primarily from the left. I would say it was like a 90 10 split and maybe I'm being generous to the 10 part, but the deal is, is that you have all of these, all of these Americans who are fed up with the abuses of the lockdowns of BLM and Antifa destroying their cities and towns with relative impunity.

You have a, uh, a, a person running for the presidency who them and their VP have actively contributed to getting Antifa members and BLM activists who have been violent out of prison. And then you have January 6th, you have one day, one singular day where the conservatives say, that's it.

I've had it. I'm going to go do something crazy. And then it's the end of the world. Oh, Oh no. Look what they've done. They've they've stormed the Capitol building. It's the end of the world. Our democracy is gone.

No, here's the thing is that the Democrats and they're in the brown shirts going around and smashing up cities and stores and people, they were going, they were going after you, they were going after you.

And, but the thing that made them scared is that the conservatives went after their source of power, went directly to the source of where all their power stems from. And that's what scared them. That's why they're peeing their pants.

That's why they're still writing articles to this day about how,.

What a terrible horrible thing it was. Even though you have,.

I literally have photographs and videos of Democrats in other States, storming their own respective state Capitol buildings and occupying it for days on end. That doesn't matter. You, we threatened their source of power and that's why they hate it so much.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. All right. That was great input there. Let's move on. One day, January 7th, Facebook banned president Donald Trump, indefinitely from the social media platform. Chris, what would you like to say about that?

Big Tech, Censorship, and Soft Totalitarianism

Oh man. I do find it fascinating that that technology and the private sector corporations are actively working to undermine the very rights that we have as citizens of the United States. You have the right to freedom of speech.

Yes. But Facebook and Twitter said, no, no, no, no, you don't have freedom of speech. You have the freedom to say what we approve of. And so you're going to never be able to say what we don't approve of.

And I would note then that that that certain speech is now considered forbidden and is actively policed by our big technological social media corporations, which means we're already living in a soft form of totalitarianism and it's not the government that's enforcing it.

It's corporations in the private sector. And this is a very terrifying thing because they're, you know, at this point the things that we've relied on for public discourse, conversation for freedom of religion, the ability to preach the gospel to call sin, sin.

You can do that. I can do that at Kongsvinger, but certain sins, if I call them sins on Facebook or Twitter, the I'll be banned for life in those things. And so this should get everybody to wake up to the fact that totalitarianism is not out there somewhere.

It's already here and it's the private sector that is going to continue to lead the way towards it. And if we don't turn things around, then the government is going to fall and we're going to lose all of these rights that we've been endowed with and given by the founders of the United States.

If I can piggyback off that for just one second. So you talk about, you said that the corporations are the ones censoring people. That is correct. And you say it's not government. The terminology that people on alt tech are using is that these, these government, these big tech companies are government adjacent because they are working and colluding with the politicians in order to be able to police speech that they don't like.

Mind you, it's only swinging one way. So they're only, and the thing is that the left will say, Oh my goodness,.

All the lobbyists are terrible people. But you know,.

They're constantly lobbying to have freedom of speech squelch on, on, online and all that kind of junk too. So the thing is, is that it's okay when they do it. But if, if any, if anything goes back the other direction, it's like, Oh,.

So if the clock's back to 1883,.

You're a big meanie.

You hurt my feet. Stop it.

Yeah. But the, the, the, the definition of fascism that the left likes to throw around is where it's corporations and the state merging together to control the populace. What do you think they're doing?

What do you think? And you know, it's like today they're like, man, I've never heard of a point in history where the good, where the bad guys were the ones that were advocating for freedom of speech for people to be arming themselves against those who would, that would hurt them.

Those, that's not the rhetoric of the bad guys. I've never heard of that.

The Rise of Lawlessness and the Church's Failure

All right, let's move forward. There's more. The U S on February 2nd, the U S Senate confirmed Pete Buttigieg, Buttigieg, I guess that's how it says. Pete Buttigieg as the transportation secretary, making him the U S is first openly gay cabinet secretary.

Okay.

It's it's almost it's almost as though it leaves you speechless for just a moment. It makes you gasp and wonder. And it's just like the who, who is it? The director of health. That's a dude that thinks he's a woman.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I find that somebody you want, that's somebody you want working on your, your child when they're sick, right?

I find the second one you mentioned far more egregious because it's someone, who's like, Oh yes, I'm an expert in these things in health. I'm sorry, but mental health is one of the things you're obviously not an expert in.

And that's objective. You know, you're not allowed to say that.

Yeah. So, so where I would go with this is, uh, let's talk about the, the rise of lawlessness, what, what you're describing and these little mile markers from the first quarter of 2021 are clear indicators of the rise of lawlessness, the abandonment of the, of the morality that God has put into the hearts of every human being.

And then is actually chronicled and written out for us in scripture in the 10 commandments. And, um, and here's where it kind of gets interesting is, is that I lay much of the blame for where we are going in the increase of lawlessness on the church.

And let me explain why. And you can have a little bit in history here to kind of make the case. But the idea then is, is that, uh, with the, uh, publishing of the origin of species, Charles Darwin's book, back in the 1800s, uh, there was this, you know, absolute terrifying walking off the battlefield of the field of ideas by many pastors and seminaries started making the switch to basically saying from going from saying the Bible is the inerrant inspired infallible word of God and are the authority for all doctrine in the church to now saying, well, we have to stay what's true.

And so it's Genesis one is no longer a real history. We can't trust it. And so science has undermined all of this. And that really opens the door outright, uh, barn doors in this way of this flood of liberalism of people trying to rescue Christianity from, uh, from being irrelevant because of, you know, so-called scientific discoveries.

But the problem is is that evolutionary theory and all of the science behind it is garbage. It's, it's absolute, you know, it, it's a cesspool of a slimy ideas that cannot actually be, uh, validated from real science.

And now we live in the day where we can actually look at the genetic code and, uh, geneticists are saying, listen, that, that, uh, that, uh, origin of species things, it ain't jiving with what we're seeing all the way down in the DNA, but, but it's already too late.

So what's happened is, is that in the last 150 years, you've had entire denominations taken over by people who are rescuing Christianity from itself and deny the, uh, that the, what the scriptures say are true.

And as a result of that, they've reworked Christianity into some kind of a social justice, do good kind of message, but Christ and him crucified for our sins, bodily raised from the grave, Jesus actually affirming the Genesis account of our creation and that we were created male and female, that's all out the window.

And so what's happened is, is that people are not, they're not, they're not being confronted with their sins. They're not hearing about Christ and him crucified for their sins. And here's the thing. Every single child born on planet earth, they are already conceived and born in sin.

They don't come out as a blank slate or a Switzerland morally. They come out under the dominion of darkness. And if we're not out there reaching them with the gospel, then what is here is just the increasing percentage of people who are complete heathens and pagans who've never even heard the truth.

And a lot of them, unfortunately, attend churches. And so it's, it's a, it's a scary situation. So, you know, these little high watermarks that you're seeing in the increase of lawlessness, it's only going to get worse as long as the Christian church continues to put up with these liberal false teachers and the crazy charismatic false prophets and apostles, uh, cause they're not pointing people to Jesus.

They're pointing people into the abyss.

Amen. Amen, Chris. Actually, um, Jay Gresham Machen 1923 wrote Christianity and the rise of liberalism. Uh, I'll quote this, the rise of this modern naturalistic liberalism has not come by chance, but has been occasioned by important changes, which have recently taken place in the conditions of life the past 100 years.

And this was written 1923. He said the past 100 years have witnessed the beginning of a new era in the human history, which may conceivably be regretted. Amen. But certainly cannot be ignored by the most obstinate conservatism.

The change is not something that lies beneath the surface and might be visible only to the discerning eye. On the contrary, it forces itself upon the attention of the plain man at a hundred points. Yeah, it is.

It is manifestly evident. Mm hmm. I agree. I agree. So March 2nd, the estate of Dr. Seuss announced that six of the author's books will no longer be published due to racist and offensive imagery.

Cultural Revisionism and the Dr. Seuss Controversy

All right. So there's a couple of, there's a couple of things about that particular story that some people have gotten wrong. Uh, for starters, those particular books hadn't actually been in print in years.

They hadn't like, you know, the Dr. Seuss, like, you know, a state or whatever, they haven't, it's been a very long time since they published those books, talked about them and anything like that. And they're like, and they just, I don't know, came up for woke virtue single points and said,.

We're not going to do this anymore because they're offensive.

And everyone like, you know, then everyone on the right lost their mind. Everyone on the left cheered and it was, it became a, you know, all of misery. Um, but also, but ultimately what this boils down to is, uh, it's very much like 1984 with revising history.

Um, if we, we, you know, if we can't learn from our own past, then we're doomed to repeat it. And so what they're doing is they're just speeding up the process. Like, Oh, we're not going to let you learn from the past.

We're just going to delete it, the stuff that we don't like and just ensure that it's going to all happen again.

The other aspect of this is, uh, is a complete lack of appreciation for the boldness that Dr. Seuss had in his lifetime. I mean, uh, you know, Horton, here's a who, a person is a person, no matter how small.

And then Yertle, the turtle was his, uh, his swipe at Adolf Hitler. And, and so to say that he was some kind of, you know, a racist that, you know, kind of inferring that, you know, you know, he was secretly was a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

That's just belogna. It's, it's bovine scatology. And it does not do him justice at all. And he was the farthest thing from a real racist. And some of his artwork reflected basically the, the United States of the time that he was publishing.

And, and it was a reflection of the culture of the, of the moment, but that doesn't mean that he somehow was an advocate for, you know, making people of color, less human or something like that. Far from it.

He was an outspoken advocate for human rights, regardless of your race or color or ethnicity.

And by,.

And his artwork and his storytelling by comparison to what was considered fine by that particular time and day was far more tame and far less offensive than a majority of the stuff that was coming out around the time.

So it's, you know, it's mostly if anything else, it's a smear campaign to destroy someone's, destroy Dr. Seuss's reputation more than anything else. Yeah. So so much, there's so many things that he, that he did write that were so good and objectively moral with Horton Harris, who being basically a allegory for abortion in some ways.

You know, that one, I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's like, you know, it's the tiny little speck that it, that has life and he wants to defend it and protect it. You know, people have used that as a way with which to fight against the rhetoric of abortion and the leftists just cannot stand it.

They get so mad. So we can't, we can't destroy his books. Like we can't destroy all of his books. We'll just destroy his reputation. So no one will ever want to read from him ever again.

Yeah. And like in Chris, you had mentioned it about that book being a reflection of the nature or the culture around him. And I think that's one of the again, going back to the, the liberal, uh, ever moving goalposts, the subjective viewpoint that the liberal world tends to have rather than the objective standpoint.

We see that in the, in the, uh, with the, in the result of the, uh, the books that are coming out now, the book, even the children's books that are written, there are so many children's books that are progressing or that are, um, professing and pushing the idea of, uh, gender neutral, right.