My Response to Joshua Chavez Proverbs

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May 10, 2020

Joshua Chavez made a video attacking me (and Phil Johnson) for doing an interview with Doreen Virtue. This is his latest dishonest attack on me and other men in the ministry. If all one knew was what Joshua presented in his video, there would indeed be cause for concern. Many people have emailed me asking genuine questions. His video seems to be compelling. It seems compelling, that is, until you know the full story and see the full interview I did with Doreen. He used b

00:00: Hello ladies and gentlemen, my name is Justin Peters. I hope that you and your family are doing well. I want to thank you for watching this video.
00:08: The first to plead his case seems right until another comes and examines him.
00:15: Proverbs 18 17. I have certainly had my fair share of critics over the years, still do, most of whom
00:24: I do not respond to, but on occasion when I think it is necessary to give a response,
00:30: I will do that. The morning of May 5th presented me such an opportunity because I got up that morning and after having some breakfast, opened up my email.
00:42: One of the emails in my inbox was from Doreen Virtue. I read her email and she was profusely apologizing to me for the video that Joshua Chavez put up.
00:54: Honestly, I'm not sure if it's Chavez or Chavez, but I'll go with Chavez. Joshua, I'm sure you're watching this.
01:00: If I got the wrong pronunciation, accept my sincere apologies. Anyway, she she was profusely apologizing for this.
01:10: I didn't know anything about it, but so I went to his YouTube channel and I looked and sure enough his video that he put up, the latest video anyway, that he's put up attacking me is entitled,
01:23: Justin Peters believes in visions. So I looked at it.
01:29: I did not watch any of it. I just read the description and then I started looking at some of the comments that people were putting down.
01:38: I could tell by the description and the comments that people were making that he is trying to make some case that apparently
01:43: I have changed my theology on God dispensing dreams and visions and extra biblical revelation.
01:51: I have taught very clearly on this. My theology on this is well -known.
01:57: I have not wavered on it. I've taught the same thing for years and so I really didn't initially give it a whole lot of attention.
02:06: I did put a comment or two where the comment section is and I said that I'm not going to waste two hours of my life watching this and of course a lot of people thought that that was arrogant for me to say, but Joshua Chavez has a history of attacking me and this is,
02:27: I believe anyway, the first time I've publicly engaged him. But you know how you can take your cursor and put it on the timeline of a
02:35: YouTube video and the little window pops up and you can kind of see without having to watch the whole thing, you can get this little window and you can kind of scroll through and see what the video is about.
02:45: And so I did that and I saw that he was he was taking I assumed at first multiple clips, but then
02:52: I found out later is just one one very brief clip of my interview that I did with Doreen Virtue back,
03:01: I believe it was this past November 2019 and Basically, I gathered that he was he was making the argument that because I said some kind things about Doreen Virtue excuse me,
03:14: Doreen Virtue and Doreen Virtue claims to have had dreams and visions of Jesus and a number of other these these kind of things that seem to be incongruous with my theology that I must have either
03:28: I have Changed my theology. I must have changed my theology and if so, then
03:35: I owe the entire charismatic movement an apology for teaching against the charismatic movement
03:41: So strongly for so many years If I have not changed my theology on that, however, then
03:49: I he thought that I am obligated to publicly rebuke
03:56: Doreen Virtue Well, I initially wasn't going to give this a response
04:01: I said I wasn't going to watch it but then as the day went on My inbox started getting a number of emails from people some of them very angry some of them
04:12: Blasting me undoubtedly some of Joshua Chavez's followers but others honestly were were people who were genuinely confused and I talked to my
04:23: Friend David Hinckley who takes care of the ministry Facebook page Asked him what he was seeing and he told me the same thing
04:30: He said a lot of people were genuinely confused And so as the day went on I realized that I that I do need to answer this
04:37: So I watched most of the video. I still don't think I've watched maybe all of it, but probably over 90 % of it so anyway,
04:45: I watched Joshua Chavez's video and I Realized that I do indeed need to give a response to this because if all you knew was
04:57: What he presented then indeed his video would would really make you scratch your head and would really make you wonder about me about my theology whether or not it's changed and even about my integrity because he does indeed call me a
05:14: Hypocrite hypocritical over and over and over in the video and really throws down the gauntlet to me and challenges me and so I decided that I needed to do this video and so For the last day or so I've been getting together some research and some
05:30: I'm gonna do this a whole video thing editing and I'm gonna show you some clips from the video that he put up and then
05:39: I'm going to show you some clips of The interview the actual interview that I did with Doreen Virtue You might notice or might have noticed if you watched his video that he showed you but one 10 second or so clip out of the entire interview hour -long interview that I did with Doreen took 10 seconds out of that entire hour -long interview and Made that the center point the focal point of his entire two hour long attack against me so This is a response to that.
06:16: In fact, he wanted me to respond. He challenged me over and over to respond. So Joshua I am and I'm doing this for a number of reasons one
06:25: I'm doing is to defend my own character and reputation That has been attacked and unjustly so as I think all of you will soon see and again,
06:37: I'm not always real eager to do this, but even the Apostle Paul after his Character and integrity had come under attack.
06:45: He even found a need finally to defend himself He did so in 2nd Corinthians chapter 10 Galatians chapter 1 not at all to compare myself to the
06:54: Apostle Paul But there is a biblical precedent for defending oneself against an attack, but I'm doing it kind of For these reasons the least of which and honestly,
07:05: I think I can say this little the least of which is to defend my own character and reputation then
07:10: I also want to defend the character and reputation of Truly faithful servants of God like John MacArthur and Phil Johnson and Paul Washer are some names that repeatedly came up in his video
07:25: He has attacked them as well. Not only in this video, but in many many other places as you will see
07:31: I will tell you some of the vile things that Joshua Chavez has said about these men and in these are men that I love these are men that I respect
07:41: I know and Honestly, it makes me more angry If I may say in a righteously indignant kind of way that he would attack them
07:51: Then then the fact that he attacks me, but he kind of throws us all in the same Basket here.
07:57: And so I'm going to deal with that But so those are two reasons to defend my character and reputation to defend the character and reputation of men that I know and love
08:05: And respect also to defend the reputation of the gospel. Now, what do I mean by that? Some of you may have heard me say this before from time to time in interviews
08:14: I am asked How can we pray for you? How can I the interviewer whoever it may be pray for you our audience pray for you and you may have heard me say that honestly the best way you can pray for me and this is this is truly my heart's desire is
08:30: Pray that not only in the content of what I teach But also the way in which
08:38: I carry myself the way that I comport myself Will bring honor to Christ The content of what
08:45: I teach and how I carry myself because I never want to do anything To bring reproach on the gospel.
08:52: I would I would rather be dead than to do anything to bring reproach on the gospel now
08:59: If I were to suddenly drop dead, I don't think that that's any kind of a prophetic thing type going on there, but I'm not in the
09:09: Necessarily in the best of health. I mean, I'm okay. But anyway, I'm getting off on a rabbit trail So at any rate,
09:15: I don't want to bring reproach on the gospel that truly is my
09:22: Greatest prayer request. I want to carry the name of Christ well, and so if Joshua Chavez is going to attack my character and reputation and other faithful men then by extension
09:36: It does sully the gospel. It does bring reproach on the gospel, and I do not want that And also
09:43: I want this to be a lesson for everyone for all of us me included Proverbs 18 17 the first To plead his case seems right seems right until Someone comes along and examines him.
10:00: I want this to be a lesson for all of the people who have Glibly jumped onto this bandwagon and have said horrific things horrific things ugly things
10:13: Not only about me but about MacArthur and Paul Washer and Phil Johnson and also about Doreen Virtue I have seen in the comment section of And granted
10:24: Joshua Chavez is not responsible for everyone who puts Comments.
10:30: I mean we all know there's some Real wingnuts out there, and you can't control that but They there are people have said some really horrific things about Doreen Virtue excuse me and And I want to set the record straight on that.
10:47: I think by the end of this video you'll see there's an awful lot that you are not being told and intentionally so you're gonna see that Joshua Chavez has been intentionally deceitful and We'll see this as we go along so That is where we're headed
11:02: I'm going to oh I'm also going to read you some of the email exchanges that Doreen Virtue and I have exchanged in the last couple of days
11:10: I want you to hear from herself I asked her permission if I could read some of the things that she wrote to me in Her emails and she gave me permission to do so and so I think you're gonna be surprised
11:27: The first to plead his case seems right What Joshua Chavez put up boy it seemed like an ironclad case boy.
11:34: It seemed like he He really had me over a barrel and Doreen Virtue and boy
11:40: It just seemed even got some of the people that have appreciated me over the years to question me the first to plead his case seems right until Someone comes along and examines him and so that's what we're gonna do
11:53: We're going to examine him so here we go, I'm going to show you a few clips from Joshua Chavez's you may know him better as service
12:01: Christy I'm not gonna call him that If there was ever a misnomer for someone it would that would be it.
12:09: I'm gonna call him by his name Joshua So here we go. Here's the first clip dear friends
12:20: I wanted to put this in real quickly because I just finished the video just finished working on it And so I'm putting this on the front end because kind of going back to the future type thing here this video turned out to be longer than what
12:33: I thought it would because there were just More issues that I needed to engage more points and needed to be made
12:39: But this is my final word everything that you're going to see everything I've presented is
12:46: To the very best of my knowledge and ability the absolute truth My conscience is clear before the
12:52: Lord and the final analysis, that's really all that matters So I'm sure he's gonna have some response.
12:59: I have no doubt about that He's gonna try to goad me into making some kind of response and honestly,
13:04: I'm not gonna do it I have spent the last two full days working on this and so I'm not gonna
13:10: I'm not gonna waste any more of my time Not that this time was wasted, but I've said everything
13:15: I know to say and so Short of an apology short of Repentance to me and other people you won't know
13:23: Doreen and other people that you will hear named in this video This is my final word. Okay, please do watch the entire video.
13:30: I know it's long but Watch it the whole thing I'll ask you this before you comment before you make a judgment one way or the other watch the entire thing.
13:39: Okay, and That's it let's proceed
13:53: Welcome my name is Joshua and Prepare to be offended I suspect many people will have already been offended at the mere implication of the title of this video
14:04: But indeed the question is warranted does Justin Peters now embrace dreams and visions of Jesus if so, is he prepared to retract and repudiate many years of teaching to the contrary
14:19: And if not, is he prepared to correct publicly his friend
14:25: Doreen virtue Who has had one such fantastic dream or vision actually as she puts it
14:33: So this is the opening of his video and basically the the premise has been set here
14:39: That he's gonna he's gonna go on and he's gonna show you a number of clips from Doreen virtue That show her talking about getting visions of Jesus and talk about her even going into an
14:51: Episcopal Church And her saying some very nice things about some very liberal churches are very liberal an
14:57: Episcopal Church It was pastored by a female priestess, I guess That was very welcoming of homosexuals all you're gonna you're gonna hear some really
15:06: Bad stuff from Doreen virtue. You're gonna hear some things that really gonna make you scratch your head and wonder
15:12: What in the world is going on? And how could Justin Peters? possibly Endorse this that is his premise.
15:20: He is he is saying that by me going on a program. I have either changed my theology on dreams and visions or I am endorsing dreams and visions and by extension according to Joshua, I am endorsing the
15:37: Content of the dreams and visions and and where the dreams and visions have led her And so this is at face value this is going to be problematic but remember
15:47: Proverbs 18 17 okay, so back to the video
15:54: What's going to happen? And for those of you who? Have gravitated toward either
16:00: Justin Peters or Doreen virtue What's happening right now internally is some kind of deep -seated visceral hatred toward me without even having heard
16:11: What's going to be said or showcased here? Do not answer a matter before you've heard it Lest it be shame and folly to you.
16:17: Don't even answer it internally. Just wait Just wait You just heard
16:22: Joshua quote Proverbs 18 13 do not answer a matter before you've heard it lest it be shame and folly to you
16:31: That was I'm not sure which translation from which he was reading. But anyway, this is Proverbs 18 30 there 18 13
16:38: Very good proverb very very true. But as you will soon see that is
16:45: Shockingly hypocritical of him To quote that verse. I am quite literally stunned that he did because He is doing the exact thing that that verse
16:59: Tells us not to do he is doing that very thing and he is about to He's really about to condemn himself
17:07: I am absolutely stunned because as you'll see you might notice if you've watched his video if you've already seen it you might notice that the only clip that he shows of the interview the hour -long interview that I did with Doreen virtue is
17:23: Right at the beginning right when we're just doing our introduction kind of things Doreen Thanks me for coming on the program.
17:30: Da da da and I thank her for inviting me to come on and I Tell her that I am grateful for the work that the
17:37: Lord has done in her life about a 10 -second clip out of an hour -long interview and That in yet that 10 seconds is the only clip that he shows you out of that entire interview
17:52: You will see how problematic that is and you will see that Joshua Chavez Has just condemned himself by quoting that proverb
18:03: Because he is doing the very thing that that proverb says not to do how ironic and he not he quotes it
18:09: Not only here. He quotes that proverb two or three times throughout the course of his video But you'll see how that is going to be a problem for him.
18:18: Let us continue There is a loyalty as if somebody rescued a dog from a pound
18:24: There's that kind of loyalty when somebody helps another out of a deep -seated deception
18:30: The same might be true of some of you that perhaps were wrapped up in the in new age and perhaps you heard
18:37: Doreen virtues testimony and started second -guessing that maybe that led you to Christianity If that is the case there is going to be a tendency to want to dismiss everything.
18:49: I'm saying immediately look for whatever superficial objection you can possibly find To attack the messenger again,
18:58: I say do not answer a matter before you've heard it It will be shame and folly to you. I am only going to present
19:06: Justin Peters theology and Compare it with Doreen virtues own words.
19:12: You will hear their words against their own words so the point that Joshua was making there is he's trying to Buffer himself against some of the criticism of criticisms of people who may follow me or Doreen virtue to whatever degree and Basically, what he's saying is this and in and of itself.
19:32: It's it's actually right that if you have been helped out of the word of faith movement by Some of my teaching just the the truth that I have been granted by God to present over the years
19:44: If that has been of help to you over the years you would be very reluctant to think ill of me you're gonna your tendency would be to overlook this and rather direct your anger at Joshua so what he's saying is basically is don't shoot the messenger kind of thing and he's saying we shouldn't have an undue loyalty to Men and women in and of itself.
20:11: I agree with that. I actually do agree with the general point but as you will see this what he is saying is
20:21: Very hypocritical because he goes on to probably quote Proverbs 18 13 yet again
20:27: He should have looked down a few more verses at verse 17 and camped out on that a little bit more
20:33: As we will see so let us and then he says I'm going to show you their own words and then he goes on to show the rest of the video basically is
20:42: Contrasting things that I have said with things of Doreen virtue has said so go we'll go back to his video listen
20:52: What am I saying or presenting that is not true a lot? Actually a lot that you are presenting is not true
21:00: And we shall soon see that now Joshua is about to play you the 10 -second video the only one only clip of the entire hour -long interview
21:10: That I did with Doreen virtue that he's going to use he's about to play right now. So let's let's watch it so without further ado
21:21: Let's just get a baseline here. Just so you understand people like Justin Peters and Phil Johnson of grace to you
21:29: Have embraced Doreen virtue and we'll learn more about her as this goes, but just so you understand they are
21:37: Friendly with her and promote her and are proud of what she's doing Thank you so much
21:43: Doreen. I appreciate that very much and you know rejoicing the work that the Lord has done in your life
21:49: It's been it's very encouraging to me to hear as well. So that's an honor to be with you Hi everyone, it's
21:55: Doreen I'm here with my good friend Lauren Hereford and we are so blessed to be joined today by Pastor Phil Johnson, you know him you love him.
22:03: You've seen him on grace to you. I listen to his voice every day on ref net Christian radio
22:08: Thank you for being with us today Pastor Phil. We really appreciate it. Thanks for having me So there you have it all 10 seconds of what
22:18: I said to Doreen virtues saying that I'm Grateful for the work that the Lord has done in her life took all of 10 seconds and out of the entire
22:27: Hour, maybe even a little bit over now Maybe a 62 or 63 minutes something like that, but at least a full hour interview
22:33: I did with Doreen virtue He hinges his entire thing over that 10 seconds that he claims is my full endorsement of Everything that she teaches her full testimony claims of dreams and visions and all this stuff
22:50: And it's that 10 seconds that he shows out of the hour -long interview and then of Phil's interview
22:56: I don't know how long is was with Doreen's I'm assuming about an hour So he has all of four words from Phil thanks for having me and those four words from Phil apparently are a full endorsement of everything that Doreen virtue has
23:12: Said and so we are left with a conundrum according to Joshua Chavez that Phil Johnson and I and others
23:20: I guess have either changed our theology or We need to publicly repudiate
23:27: Doreen virtue Okay, so that's where we are at this point. Now. We're going to go in and Joshua is going to show you another video clip of me teaching against dreams and visions and he's going to contrast that with Clip of Doreen virtue talking about getting a vision of Jesus.
23:46: So that's what's coming up. Here we go Here we go. Let's listen to Justin.
23:51: We're going to compare Justin's Theology Justin's teachings to Doreen virtue.
23:58: I'm really facilitating this. All right. I know you're gonna be Well poised to attack me
24:06: But what you're going to have to do is you're going to have to deal with Justin's own words his own teachings and Doreen virtues own words and own teachings or they're gonna have to work this out.
24:17: I Don't know. I'm gonna show you the problem that I didn't create
24:23: These are their words not mine. I Hear this so many times people ask me about this all the time that Jesus is appearing to Muslims and dreams and visions
24:32: What do you make of that? Well right off the bat, I think of Hebrews 1 1 and 2 and Romans 10 14
24:41: Hebrews 1 1 and 2 God Long ago spoke to the fathers and the prophets in many portions and in many ways in these last days he has spoken to us through his son and So God is not speaking today through dreams and visions
24:55: Hebrews 1 1 and 2 makes that very clear he has spoken to us today through his son and Romans 10 14 also puts the brakes on this notion
25:05: Paul says how are they here without a preacher not without a dream not without a vision?
25:10: How are they here without a preacher? So the baseline is Justin says
25:15: God is not speaking to Anybody through dreams and visions and he gives a scriptural reason and his estimation why this is impossible
25:24: Let's compare Justin's own reasoning with Doreen virtues testimony And I believe this is probably the first testimony that she posted as you're going to see
25:33: We're gonna go through at least four. I believe four different video clips of her giving this testimony
25:40: All of a sudden the scene changed she disappeared The church disappeared all the people disappeared and there
25:48: Was Jesus right in front of me? standing there will floating really and He was glowing and he was glowing so brightly
26:00: That I don't even know how I could explain it but it was this glow all around him and especially from his heart and the glow was this this candlelight colors is
26:11: This white white color like you'd see eggshell color or candlelight color and this smile on his face
26:20: And and so God is not speaking today through dreams and visions Hebrews 1 1 & 2 makes that very clear very clear
26:33: The wind might have obscured that she said everything changed for me on January 7th 2017 important epiphanies
26:42: Sounds like divine revelation and it is which Justin Peters does not believe in Or does he maybe he's changed his mind, this is my question
26:52: So there you see Doreen virtue talking about a vision that she got from Jesus And when you watch full clips a very dramatic vision, she saw
27:00: Jesus in a bodily form three -dimensional this is a very real vision and Joshua Chavez says does
27:09: Justin believe in this that's my question Well, it be not have been a question for him had he just been intellectually honest enough to play some more of that Interview that I did with Doreen virtue as we shall see but we'll get to that in just a little bit
27:28: But I don't want to take anything away. I don't want to I don't want it the charge to be made against me
27:33: Oh, you're you're you're not showing all of what Joshua Chavez said you're not playing all of the clips Of course,
27:39: I'm not because it's two hour long video and I don't think you want to be here for any longer than you have to so at any rate
27:46: Doreen virtue goes on to Say that in one of her visions Jesus told her that she did not have to stop using tarot cards
27:55: Which is a big part of the New Age movement Basically is just said you don't have to stop using them.
28:01: It's just how you use them. So that's that's in there that's that was part of her vision and Now what you're about to see is
28:09: Joshua Chavez playing a clip of me Addressing this claim of Muslims getting dreams and visions and that's gonna be one of my next videos
28:17: I think I'm gonna do but at any rate this is a very short clip of me talking about that and one of the objections
28:23: I have to Jesus appearing to Muslims and dreams and visions is that this Jesus that appears to them often
28:31: Sends them to bad churches, that's one of my objections and then you're going to see
28:37: Doreen virtue talking about how shortly after her alleged conversion she went right into a
28:45: Bad church as a result of this vision of Jesus. So let's watch this You get that is remarkable can't
28:54: Evaluate Scripture by your experiences and so after that experience
29:01: I was Blown away. I mean, there's no other way to say it but blown away
29:08: I'm blown away too, and I don't even know how I got home from church. I don't even know who was with me
29:14: It was a blur and I got home and I went on the internet and I typed in Jesus lights heart
29:20: And and all that and what popped up was pictures of this painting Done from a vision of a saint named st.
29:28: Maria Faustina and So I know it's a real Jesus because I was led down this this path
29:35: That is scriptural and is loving and non -judgmental This that's how she knows.
29:42: It was the real Jesus Quote unquote Jesus that appears to Muslims and dreams and visions
29:48: He usually sends them to bad churches He will send them to a Roman Catholic Church or to a word -of -faith
29:54: Church or and that's not the real Jesus Jesus would not send someone to a bad church and one of the reasons we like Episcopal is that it is traditional
30:03: Bible Center Jesus Center and open -minded they welcome people of all
30:08: Different backgrounds they welcome people of the gay community. They ordain women as priests they ordain openly gay people as priests they
30:18: They say we love as Jesus loved Jesus loved everyone and it's true so If you're looking for a non -judgmental church, let me just put in a plug for Episcopal Also known as Anglican because almost all of them are that way
30:35: That's troubling isn't it, you know what it is Doreen virtue said in one of her visions this
30:42: Jesus this not even a Wispy kind of a vision a tangible three -dimensional bodily type
30:49: Jesus six feet tall by the way appeared to her and and that was her impetus to leave the
30:56: New Age movement and embrace Christianity and Right after this vision she went right into the
31:02: Episcopal Church And so Joshua is saying how can I say what I do about Jesus appearing to Muslims and dreams and visions when he?
31:11: Sends them into bad churches and yet here is Doreen virtue She also got a vision of Jesus and she went right into a bad church.
31:20: And you know what she did This was a bad church this Episcopal Church that's led by a woman then you just heard
31:29: Doreen virtue give this glowing endorsement of the Episcopal Church because they're so warm and in affirming they welcome everyone even homosexuals gays they welcome them and and So Joshua is saying how can you teach that Justin Peters and affirm?
31:45: Doreen virtue at the same time and another part of her visions I haven't shown you this clip again just for time sake but I don't want to be accused of leaving this out but in another one of her visions
31:56: Doreen says that somehow she felt the weight of the Sins of the world that were placed on Jesus.
32:04: She somehow felt Those sins upon herself and all of a sudden she came to this understanding that Jesus bore the sins of the world and she said she had not even read
32:15: That in the Bible and and yet somehow she she had this weird experience in one of their visions and and you know what that is weird and Joshua Chavez points it out rightly so as being
32:28: Bizarre and weird and it is you know what? In fact, it's worse than that. It's not just bizarre. It's not just weird
32:34: It's heresy Straight -up heresy that is undiluted Heresy to say something like that.
32:41: I'll take it a notch further. Not only is it heresy. It's blasphemy to teach something like that So What are we to do with this and this the whole?
32:54: The whole video if you watch this thing if you can stomach it the whole video the whole two hours is basically
33:00: Joshua just playing this game of gotcha, you know showing clips of me and what
33:07: I teach Contrasting them with clips of Doreen virtue and what she appears to be teaching and you know what?
33:13: It seems absolutely Irreconcilable so something's got to give I've got to either admit that I changed my theology on all these issues or I need to publicly denounce and repudiate
33:27: Doreen virtue Gotcha the first to plead his case seems right until another comes along and examines him
33:43: God's Word describes people that embrace those ideas as such Those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of heaven
33:54: Read Romans 1 they not only do the same but they approve of those who do
34:01: This is indicative of being given over to a reprobate mind Not a good sign whatsoever.
34:08: Does Justin Peters not know or does he not care? Does Justin not know about this?
34:14: Does he not care? Has he changed his stance? Is he going to retract and repudiate so many of his teachings?
34:19: I'm so curious And there was these four. Thank you for being with us today pastor Phil. We really appreciate it.
34:25: Thanks for having me You know, I got a dream. I got a vision Every form of theological mischief stems from that.
34:33: So yeah, it just Does it holds no water it goes against Scripture and it goes against plain common sense
34:42: So Justin, thank you so much Doreen. I appreciate that very much and you know rejoice in the work that the
34:48: Lord has done in Your life. It's been it's very encouraging to me to hear as well. So that's an honor to be with you
34:53: Would that include the work that he did through this fantastic vision of Jesus that comes with a painting?
34:59: Wouldn't include that as well Justin or do you not know about her testimony? Do you care so little about her that you didn't even read her testimony before accepting an invitation to go speak with her and tell
35:08: Tell her how proud you are of her that the work of work that God's doing in her You obviously know something about her.
35:15: Surely you must have read her testimony, right? I Assume you did it's a reasonable assumption.
35:21: In fact, it would be unreasonable for me not to assume that so I'd love to hear
35:26: Justin's newfound teaching that sometimes visions of Jesus Real three -dimensional visions of Jesus where the veil is lifted are acceptable and okay, not okay for Muslims But okay for non -muslims.
35:41: I'd love to hear Justin's new teaching and his hermeneutic whereby he discerns this
35:46: I'd love to hear it because I haven't heard it yet. This is new breaking news right here Or am
35:53: I confused I maybe somebody can help unconfused me because I don't I can't reconcile these things Does Justin still believe this is he?
36:03: Okay that Doreen is teaching that ongoing revelation is true So she did not get this knowledge from the
36:10: Bible. She got it from somewhere else Ongoing revelation
36:16: What do you think Justin? And I had not read that part of the crucifixion story at that moment
36:21: I had not read that the sin was put on him. So that was remarkable. It is remarkable
36:27: What's more remarkable is that Justin Peters is sanctioning this? While he's dedicated seemingly his entire life to railing against anybody again, who's even middling charismatic
36:39: As Justin Peters changed his mind so yeah, it just Does it holds no water it goes against Scripture and it goes against plain common sense
36:51: Do you really believe that Justin Does Doreen virtues testimony go against Scripture and plain common sense, or is it just the
37:00: Muslims? You know rejoice in the work that the Lord has done in your life
37:06: It's been it's very encouraging to me to hear as well. So that's an honor to be with you Thank you for being with us today
37:12: Pastor Phil. We really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Thank you again for your time I hope you'll come back and be with us again
37:19: Anytime. Thank you About Phil Johnson. He didn't read that testimony either is the
37:26: John MacArthur camp now embracing some visions of Jesus because John MacArthur's on record saying he doesn't believe this either
37:33: He doesn't believe that Muslims are having visions of Jesus. We'll get to that in just a moment Did Justin Peters and Phil Johnson not know about this or do they not care and if they don't care about her testimony
37:45: When can we anticipate an informal apology to the entire charismatic movement? I'll be asking this question several times.
37:54: What does it mean to receive a knowingness from his presence and if that's possible? When can we expect your apology to the entire charismatic movement all of them?
38:02: It almost seems like if you want to make it into big -time Christianity today, it really helps if you've been to heaven at least once Or had a vision of Jesus at least twice maybe with a painting.
38:13: I don't know Jesse Duplantis Is a man who claims that he's been to heaven
38:24: He wrote a book entitled close encounters of the God kind This is what really put
38:31: Jesse Duplantis on the map Well, interestingly enough Doreen virtues vision of Jesus is what really put her on the map
38:38: You see the problem What's greater a vision of heaven or a vision of the author of heaven?
38:47: Tell me Justin Does Justin Peters not know this or does he not care? Does that make
38:53: Doreen a liar or just done I'm not sure what's the criteria here Justin having a vision of heaven
38:59: Just you're just a liar automatically, even if you have Baptist theology behind it
39:06: But Doreen virtues not a liar Why is it because she supports you specifically or or maybe you're just not aware of her testimony
39:16: Or are you and you've changed your mind since then and you're Taking a more sympathetic approach to the loosely
39:24: Charismatic spectrum. I don't know which one it is. Maybe Phil Johnson could answer the same question seeing this book
39:30: I have seen it Colton burpo heaven is for real. Remember Doreen virtue statement. Jesus is alive and real story of this little
39:40: Four year old kid four year old kid that says he went to heaven honestly dear ones I kind of take offense at the title of the book.
39:47: Yeah, I Don't need a four -year -old kid to tell me heaven is for real. Uh -huh The Bible already tells me that so got it.
39:54: Thanks. Anyway, Wow I wonder if Justin Peters the hypocrite will say the same thing about Doreen virtue because Justin Peters the hypocrite
40:03: You will shortly see how that statement will not age. Well for Joshua Chavez Wow, I wonder if Justin Peters the hypocrite will say the same thing about Doreen virtue because she said
40:15: Jesus is alive and he is real Perhaps Justin Peters is prepared to say dear ones.
40:22: I Don't need Doreen virtue to tell me Jesus is for real. I already got the Bible to tell me that thank you.
40:28: Anyway I'm not sure which is in more need of help his integrity or his fake southern accent
40:36: He's happy to rebuke a four -year -old for his admittedly spurious vision of heaven
40:43: But is he willing to be consistent and use the same weight and the same measure for his new friend
40:49: Doreen virtue Who says she saw in three dimensions the very author of heaven and said in effect
40:57: Jesus is for real. I Guess we don't need Doreen virtue to tell us Jesus is for real. Do you take offense with her whole testimony
41:03: Justin? I'm just curious These are your words not mine A made -up story
41:11: None of it's true. None of it's true. So does that mean Doreen virtue stories made up and not true just because it must be
41:20: There's no description of Jesus anywhere in the Bible Doreen virtue got us a painting and told us he was six feet tall
41:26: That's very specific. Does this make her a yahoo? I'm just curious if you're going to be consistent here
41:31: Justin Never ever ever Believe anyone who says they've been to heaven they want to tell you about it
41:40: Because all of these accounts all of them all of these accounts give us supposed details about heaven.
41:46: That is not in the Bible Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. So then it must follow
41:52: Never ever ever believe someone who tells you they had a vision of a three -dimensional six -foot tall
41:58: Jesus with light beams coming out of his heart ever Because they're giving you a description of Jesus That's not found in this
42:06: Bible Justin I am only using your logic. I am only using your premise your hermeneutic
42:13: I am only using your standard to understand how it is You embrace Doreen virtue and her testimony of Jesus, but rebuke four -year -old
42:21: Colton burpo for his vision of Jesus I mean his vision of heaven Again, which one is greater the vision of the place or the vision of the author of the place?
42:31: Which he says wasn't merely a vision but was beyond real Not that it really matters one way or the other but since Joshua made the point
42:41: Yes, Colton burbo did say he saw Jesus even sat in his lap and Jesus helped him with his homework
42:47: And he saw the Holy Spirit whom he describes as being blue He saw
42:52: Michael the Archangel and so yeah, he did but whatever it really doesn't matter But just just a small point of order there
43:00: They give us details about heaven that are not in the Bible now in theory in theory
43:06: If these people have really been to heaven and they come back and they give us details about heaven, right? That are true accurate things that they have seen and they report them accurately to us then in theory
43:15: Whatever they tell us about heaven should be just as authoritative as any verse in that book. Oh So we should add that to Scripture if Jesus really does move up and down like an elevator if the
43:27: Holy Spirit really is blue if people really do have wings if Jesus really is six feet tall and really does have candlelight colored light beams golden beams coming out of his heart and Curly wavy hair if that really is true, then we should add
43:44: Dorian's testimony To Scripture am I following you Justin am
43:50: I following you because you seem quite perturbed and quite sarcastic when rebuking all of these other
43:56: Maladies and so -called Christendom from admittedly problematic people
44:02: But I'm just trying to use your standard consistently if Dorian's vision of Jesus is true
44:08: Are you saying that it should be added to Scripture? And what you're saying is no it would be ridiculous because we shouldn't add anything to Scripture.
44:17: This is Justin's argument I'm just asking the question then then we should add that to this book.
44:25: Ah There's only one problem with that. Yeah, what is it? This book says do not add to this book.
44:30: Oh, no, that is a problem It's a problem for you and for Phil Johnson and for others of your friends and Dorian virtue
44:37: I'm just wondering when you're gonna address that problem I'm not really wanting to belabor the point here, but I'm showing you these clips because I want you to see how
44:49: Sarcastic just dripping with sarcasm Joshua Chavez is and how he challenges me over and over and over to answer this apparent discrepancy in this apparent hypocrisy on My part on the part of Phil Johnson and others.
45:09: So if you'll indulge me a little bit I just want you to see I want you to get a feel for the tone here coming from Joshua Chavez because this is going somewhere.
45:19: Trust me Do you not know about Dorian virtues ubiquitous testimony on January 7th 2017 or do you not care about it?
45:28: Which one is it? You see Joshua Chavez asking me this Challenging me with this over and over.
45:34: Do you not know Justin or do you not care? Which one is it? That shall be answered very shortly and in very shortly as you shall see it is going to be a huge question
45:47: For Joshua Chavez and then we have to ask the question. Well, what about all the people who died before they had a chance to read?
45:54: 90 minutes in heaven. It's a good question What about all the people that died before they got to read Dorian virtues testimony with new revelations of Jesus?
46:02: Before they had a chance to read heaven is for real Did they have insufficient revelation of heaven?
46:09: Did the people that died before Dorian virtue became a Christian have insufficient revelation of Jesus I Didn't know he had golden light beams coming out of his heart.
46:18: I didn't know he was six feet tall I only knew that from Dorian virtues testimony. I had never seen that painting before Now I've now
46:27: I've got what closely resembles Jesus What about people that died before me did they have insufficient revelation about Jesus what is greater heaven or the author of it
46:38: Justin Well, I guess they did I guess they did because do you see now we've got more information about heaven
46:45: Than all the people who died before they had a chance to read these books now We've got more information about Jesus himself than we did before all those people that died before they got to read
46:53: Dorian virtues testimony boy This is a doozy. Aren't we privileged aren't we privileged and the problem we're having here.
47:01: I do see the problem open canon of Scripture Oh, that's what it is. So Dorian virtues vision of Jesus himself would constitute an open canon of Scripture Anything that diverts our attention away from Scripture is not coming from the author of Scripture Like a painting of Jesus perhaps because I can't find that in here, but I can find it on Dorian virtues book
47:22: It's coming from the enemy. Oh If writing a book about a vision of heaven not found in Scripture Means that somebody is being used by Satan then certainly writing a vision about Jesus That's not found in here would also come to the same conclusion
47:38: Meaning by Justin Peters own standard Dorian virtue is being used by Satan. He said it not me
47:46: Justin said it Justin Peters listen If God is speaking today outside of Scripture and what we've got is an open canon of Scripture.
47:57: Oh The Word of God is not sufficient Open canon of Scripture.
48:03: I don't know how you avoid it. I don't know how you avoid it. There is no avoiding There's no avoiding it. I don't know how you avoid
48:09: Not condemning Dorian virtue. This is your hyper cessation ism at work
48:14: I'm just looking to see some consistency just a point of clarification here Joshua Chavez calls me a hyper cessation is to anytime you see someone you use a hyper anything
48:26: It's probably a pretty good red flag I've been referred to as a hyper Calvinist by one of my other more vocal and vociferous critics
48:35: And it's pretty obvious by his use of the term. He doesn't even know what a hyper Calvinist is. I'm not one and a hyper
48:42: Cessationist. I'm not a hyper cessationist. I'm just a cessationist. It's a point of clarification
48:49: Let's continue. Do you really believe what you believe? I mean you guys held a strange fire conference a few years ago
48:56: Right, you couldn't have been more adamant that cessation ism is the only way God does not speak through dreams and visions.
49:04: He cannot speak through dreams and visions It would be to contradict his own word indeed It would be to have an open canon of Scripture by your standards
49:12: Justin Doreen virtues vision constitutes an open canon of Scripture. So there they are
49:18: So after all of that after all of his testimony against dreams visions encounters with heaven
49:27: Ongoing revelation what constitutes an open canon of Scripture He embraces
49:33: Doreen virtue to the extent that that he is happy to see what God's doing in her life
49:39: Let's hear what he says again You know rejoice in the work that the Lord has done in your life.
49:44: It's been it's very encouraging to me to hear as well So he rejoices in the work that the Lord has done in her life and it's encouraging to him
49:51: I cannot fathom that he hasn't read her testimony in one of I don't know a dozen different places
49:58: What work is he talking about? Certainly, he must also be including that testimony in here or does he not know or care about it?
50:04: I I don't know so many questions stop with the misattribution Praise God if he delivered you out of some deception
50:12: But if you're tempted to cross the line From admiration to infatuation and defend what is indefensible to reconcile what is irreconcilable
50:21: You my friend are an idolater. I Think he just recently made a video pleading to Kenneth Copeland pleading to Kenneth Copeland.
50:34: I Don't know who's being deceived by Kenneth Copeland at this point. I Got to stop here just for a second
50:39: He mentions the video that I put up on my youtube channel month and a half or so ago
50:44: Entitled a personal plea to Kenneth Copeland and he says I don't know who at this point is being deceived by Kenneth Copeland That is an astonishing thing to say
50:56: Kenneth Copeland His ministry brings in somewhere in the neighborhood of three hundred million dollars per year
51:07: Obviously somebody's being deceived by him Joshua. I don't think your
51:12: YouTube channel monetized though It is I don't think it brings in three hundred million dollars a year
51:20: And so Far more people are being deceived by Kenneth Copeland than are being deceived by you
51:30: But the broader point here Yes, I did make a personal plea to Kenneth Copeland.
51:35: And do you know why I did Joshua? Did you watch that video? Joshua because Kenneth Copeland though.
51:43: He is one of the most Notorious false teachers one of the most prolific
51:48: Prolific false prophets though. He has uttered some of the most Jaw -dropping brazen heresies and claim divine unction for Teaching those same heresies though.
52:03: He has done this for well over 50 years I think about 55 years of quote -unquote ministry now though.
52:10: He has done more to Bring reproach on the name of Christ than just about anybody in the history of Christianity Unfortunately as far as the scope of his of his so -called ministry.
52:24: I actually have some modicum of compassion for the man Joshua he is deceiving and being deceived per 2nd
52:33: Timothy 3 and As much as I loathe and hate what
52:39: Kenneth Copeland has done to Exploit the poor the sick the desperate and the widows and as much as I loathe and hate
52:47: What he has done to bring reproach on the name of Christ. I Actually don't want the man to go to hell
52:55: And so yes, I did put out a personal plea begging him to repent because I Would like to see that guy in heaven one day as it is right now if he were to die right now
53:09: I'm not because that's not where he's headed My personal plea was for him to repent because I actually do have even for Kenneth Copeland some compassion
53:19: Joshua Not to toot my own horn here, but Joshua I have shown more compassion to Kenneth Copeland than you have
53:32: To Doreen Virtue, how does that work? But he either doesn't know or he doesn't care
53:39: One of two things must happen Justin Peters must issue a formal retraction and repudiation of all of the teachings prior to this
53:50: That have contradicted in any way Doreen Virtue's testimony, which would mean apologizing to Colton burpo and others
53:57: Because if her vision of Jesus is valid then their vision of heaven is equally valid but his standard
54:04: Is supposedly a scriptural one? That again constitutes an open canon of Scripture if we validate their visions and If he's changed his mind
54:15: So if he is prepared to retract that statement because he's changed his mind All of those teachings then he needs to issue a formal apology to all of the charismatic movement to Colton burpo to Jesse Duplantis to Don Piper to everybody that he's ever
54:32: Mocked for their visions and tell them why he has now come to a different understanding of Scripture and Tell us that's why he embraces
54:41: Doreen Virtue's testimony or If he didn't know about this because of his own negligence
54:48: He needs to apologize to all of us for saying he was proud of the work God's doing in her while not knowing any of this which
54:53: I just find impossible to believe Yeah, rejoice in the work that the Lord has done in your life.
54:59: It's been it's very encouraging to me to hear as well So that's an honor to be with you So there you have it dear friends.
55:05: That is the gist of his video He's calling me a hypocrite. He's saying that I one of two things have got to happen
55:12: I've either got to admit to the world that I have changed my theology on God speaking outside of Scripture and dreams and visions and whatnot
55:20: So I've and if that is the case Then I need to issue a public apology to Colton burpo and indeed the whole charismatic movement as a whole
55:30: Or if I have not changed my theology, how could I not have known? This about Doreen Virtue.
55:37: How could I not have known? He is he just over and over in this He says that he just finds it unfathomable
55:44: That I could not have known this Here's where I'm going to offer an acknowledgment and an apology
55:54: When I was asked by Doreen Virtue to do the interview with her I I had heard of her
56:02: I the totality of my knowledge of Doreen Virtue with was this is that she used to be in the
56:09: New Age movement heavily in the New Age movement and She was converted and now she is a believer on the path to progressive sanctification
56:21: That is the totality of the knowledge I had I agreed to do the interview with her and actually if you watch
56:30: Joshua's full video you might notice that I said I had another interview that same day I did I had another interview that I did right before hers it's not really an excuse, but I Just I had a lot of other things going so I didn't check her out.
56:44: I should have a Mea culpa, mea culpa. I should have checked her out more fully
56:51: I just made the assumption Because she had interviewed some other people and in fact in her email first email to me extending the invitation to come on a program
57:01: She told me that she had interviewed some of my friends Kosti Hinn and Phil Johnson And so when
57:07: I read that I just assumed okay, so, you know, this is this is fine So I didn't see a real need to check her out
57:14: I just knew she had been in the New Age movement gotten saved out of it She's interviewed some of my friends and so I agreed to do the interview
57:22: I should have I should have done some more digging and so again My fault my fault.
57:29: I own that I confess that Have no excuse for it. I should have done that Had I done that and come across all of these really troubling things that Joshua has
57:43: Documented in his video I would have sought clarification from her on all these things.
57:49: I would have sought clarification Before I did the interview so I own that and that is my fault and I do feel badly for any confusion that this has caused but Now that that's out of the way
58:04: Joshua was saying that I must either admit that I've changed my theology, which I haven't or then
58:11: I need to Call Doreen Virtue to repent publicly and renounce all of her all this crazy wacky stuff
58:21: Did you notice? You know Joshua Chavez all throughout this video. He he says this is my question
58:28: I want to know Justin. Have you changed your theology? Do you but do you not believe these things anymore? Do you still believe what you taught and he had all these clip clip clip after clip after clip of me teaching
58:37: Cessationist theology and he over and over. Have you changed your theology? Have you changed your theology?
58:43: I want to know he said that's my question. I want to know over and over and over did you notice how in the entire video that he did he had but one very brief clip of Me in the actual interview with Doreen Virtue one ten second clip.
59:02: That's all he showed. I've mentioned this before It's all he showed. Let's let's watch it again We'll discuss
59:10: You know rejoice in the work that the Lord has done in your life. It's been it's very encouraging to me to hear as well
59:15: So that's an honor to be with you And that's it that brief ten second or so Clip out of the entire hour plus long interview that I did with Doreen Virtue That's all he shows you is that little ten second clip right at the beginning where we're just giving our greetings to one another
59:35: And I say that I rejoice over the work that the Lord has done in your life Doreen it's an honor to be with you and he takes that one ten second clip and extrapolates from that that I must mean that I rejoice in all that Doreen has
59:52: Said and taught I must rejoice in the dreams in the visions that she claims to have gotten from heaven when that is so Incongruous with what
01:00:02: I myself have taught and so I rejoice in that I must rejoice in the fact that she was in an
01:00:07: Episcopal Church a heretical church Pastored by a female priestess and that embraces homosexuality is that what you rejoice in Justin, you know
01:00:16: He said that over and over and over In the whole video that Joshua's entire video is one of a gotcha.
01:00:26: He revels in it. He gloats in it It's a whole thing is a gotcha video
01:00:33: Find it very interesting that he all throughout had this question. Have you changed your theology,
01:00:39: Justin? You've got to give an answer for this one Well, if he had bothered to watch
01:00:45: The interview that I did with Doreen virtue He might have the answer to that question
01:00:51: He would know where I stand. He would know whether or not
01:00:56: I have changed my Cessationist Theology he would know that you see because in this interview
01:01:04: I actually deal with those issues Over and over and over and I deal with them quite clearly
01:01:13: As you will soon see remember Joshua Quoting Proverbs 18 verse 13 he who gives an answer before he hears it is a shame and folly to him
01:01:24: Remember that well, let's here's a quick refresher Do not answer a matter before you've heard it lest it be shame and folly to you.
01:01:32: Don't even answer it internally. Just wait Just wait Do not answer a matter before you hear because it'll be a shame and folly to you and he says just wait just wait
01:01:46: Too bad Joshua. You did not take your own advice too bad You did not follow the very verse you cited too bad.
01:01:55: You did not follow those directives and Joshua throughout the whole video you chided me and Just blasted me for you know, how could you be so and if you did not know, how could you not have?
01:02:09: Known this how could you not have done your homework? And you know what? I admit that on that. I just did a few minutes ago
01:02:14: I apologize for that So let's turn the same standard to you Joshua How is it that?
01:02:24: Though you took a 10 -second clip out of my interview with Doreen Virtue How is it that did you did not bother to watch the video?
01:02:33: and if you did if you did watch the video Joshua, then you are a blatant liar
01:02:40: Blatant liar, and I know that's a serious accusation to call someone a blatant liar
01:02:45: But I don't see any way around it Joshua because I'm going to show some clips from the interview that I did with Doreen Virtue starting with the only
01:02:56: Small little clip that you showed and we'll even look at that in a little bit fuller context, so Let's begin.
01:03:05: His website is Justin Peters org. I'm gonna highly recommend that you read his testimony letter there
01:03:11: It is profound. Please stay tuned. I think you're gonna really enjoy this interview with Justin Peters Justin thank you so much for being with us here today a lot of us have watched your videos especially clouds without water and Your testimony on your
01:03:26: Justin Peters org website has meant so much to me personally And I know that others have been moved and convicted by your testimony as well
01:03:34: So it's just such an honor to talk with you today Thank you so much Doreen. I appreciate that very much and you know rejoice in the work that the
01:03:42: Lord has done in your life It's been it's very encouraging to me to hear as well. So that's an honor to be with you
01:03:48: So you can see that even that 10 -second clip that he used Was a bit dishonest
01:03:54: He took that out of context because you saw Doreen Virtue opening the interview up talking about my own testimony
01:04:01: Which is on my website and has been for everyone to read for the last nearly 10 years
01:04:07: And and so she encouraged people to go to my website and read my testimony She said it was a powerful testimony any testimony is but That's that was the context and so I reciprocated
01:04:21: I said I rejoice in the work that he has done in your life Doreen the work we were just talking about the work that he has done in mine and my own conversion
01:04:30: That's on my website. And so I said the same thing to her clearly talking about the new birth
01:04:37: Joshua not about dreams and visions of which I knew nothing about In regards to Doreen, but that was the context and but you knew that didn't you?
01:04:49: Well Even if let you slide on that it's gonna be a little bit harder to let you slide on this
01:04:56: Joshua as you Over and over in your video challenge me. Have I changed my theology on cessationism?
01:05:02: It's gonna be a little bit harder for you to explain these clips away so Justin I get a lot of letters from people who leave the
01:05:12: New Age as I was pulled out and they go to church But and this happened to me too at first we don't have discernment unless we've really studied scripture to know what churches would be true to scripture or not when my husband and I were first we both got out of the
01:05:30: New Age at the same time and We we started at a Pentecostal Church, and then we kind of stumbled around We went to a seventh day of Venice Church for a while And we're at Episcopal Church for a year and a half and and it really was a lot of church shopping but I hear from a lot of people today who get involved with charismatic churches and They want to know about spiritual gifts.
01:05:53: So the Bible talks about kind of different tiers of spiritual gifts, doesn't it? Yes, there there's a lot of confusion out there about spiritual gifts and there are
01:06:04: Different tiers if you will there there are what are known as the apostolic gifts the sign gifts
01:06:12: Which that's another way of saying that is you're a charismatic. That is the charismatic position
01:06:17: And then there's another position known as cessationism if you are a cessationist
01:06:22: That means that you believe not that all of the spiritual gifts have ceased But only the apostolic gifts have ceased tongues interpretation of tongues miracles and physical healing and I am a cessationist
01:06:36: I do believe that those apostolic gifts have ceased To be an operation.
01:06:42: They are no longer operative in the church today. They have already Fulfilled the function for which they were given and they're no longer needed in the church today the other gifts
01:06:54: Mercy teaching administration those gifts are very much still in operation in the church today
01:07:00: Only the apostolic gifts have ceased was that in any way unclear Joshua?
01:07:06: Is there something about that you did not understand or did you just not watch the interview that I did with Doreen?
01:07:14: Which is it one of those two must be true I either was not clear and I I'm pretty sure
01:07:21: I was or you did not watch the interview that I did with Doreen virtue Because had you watched it you would have not had any confusion
01:07:30: About my stance and whether or not my cessationist theology has changed remember dear ones
01:07:38: Joshua taking me to task that According to my cessationist theology
01:07:43: If you take a charismatic position and that leads to an open canon of Scripture, and that's one of my primary objectives to the objectives objections to the charismatic position and it is that it inevitably and logically leads to an open canon of Scripture and Remember him taking me to task on that like what he did here
01:08:07: Aren't we privileged aren't we privileged and the problem we're having here. I do see the problem open canon of Scripture Oh, that's what it is.
01:08:14: So Doreen virtues vision of Jesus himself would constitute an open canon of Scripture well after I explained my cessationist position to Doreen virtue literally the next question out of her mouth was this there's no time gap here from the last
01:08:30: Clip I showed you of our interview where I ended it the literally the next words out of her mouth are
01:08:37: The following is that because the canon is closed and there's no more revelation needed
01:08:43: Yes, Doreen that that's one of the big elements of it. That's one of the big reasons because we do have the closed
01:08:50: Canon of Scripture we have the sufficient Word of God If people are fair if they're intellectually honest
01:08:59: They would have to admit that if the apostolic gifts are still operative today
01:09:04: Then the canon of Scripture cannot be closed Because the apostolic gifts are revelatory gifts meaning they reveal new information
01:09:15: And so if God is still revealing new information that up until this point has not been revealed
01:09:23: Then whatever he is revealing Should be authoritative. It should be carried just as much authoritative weight as John 3 16, you know, or Ephesians 2 8 9 any verse in Scripture?
01:09:36: So if God is still giving dispensing new information then by definition the
01:09:43: Bible is not sufficient the scriptures are not sufficient because we need all this new stuff from God and Therefore whatever
01:09:51: God is revealing has just as much authority as Scripture itself And so the canon of Scripture by definition has to be open now
01:10:01: Does it sound like my theology has changed does it sound like I'm being inconsistent with my own
01:10:08: Theology does it sound that way to you? Joshua? How could you not have known this? It seems to me I'm being very consistent with what
01:10:15: I have taught in years past My theology has not changed and you would have known that had you watched the rest of the interview
01:10:23: Or if you did watch it again You're a blatant liar. Now if you did not watch it Shame on you if you did not watch it
01:10:31: How is it Joshua that you can accuse me and berate me for not doing my homework on Doreen Virtue?
01:10:38: If in fact I did not know about the dreams and visions, which I didn't so how is it that you can berate me?
01:10:46: For a failure in that and yet in the very interview from which you took a ten -second
01:10:53: It's not like you didn't know about the interview obviously So, how is that Joshua?
01:10:58: How is it that you can berate me? For not doing my due diligence and yet when
01:11:04: I didn't even know about her dreams and visions and yet you did know about the Video the interview that I did with Doreen Virtue.
01:11:09: Obviously, it's a center point of your whole tirade against me So what did you just watch the first minute or so?
01:11:16: Is that all you watched? Why didn't you watch this part? It's only a few minutes later. I mean literally we're only like six or seven minutes into the interview
01:11:23: How did you not watch that? Joshua It is indeed
01:11:29: Shame and folly to one who answers a matter before he hears it, isn't it?
01:11:37: This is not all here in just a few minutes. I'm going to talk about how there are no more apostles and prophets today
01:11:44: Here's most charismatics would would say. Oh, no, the canon of Scripture is closed. But but for them to say that is
01:11:52: Logically inconsistent with their own theology. Mm -hmm. So so yes, we have the closed completed canon of Scripture and Another reason
01:12:02: Doreen, you know the apostolic gifts. Well, there are no more apostles today. That's right
01:12:07: There are no more all themselves apostles. That's right. There's that's right There's a lot of people who call themselves apostles, but they don't meet the biblical criteria of what an apostle is
01:12:20: Nobody anywhere on the planet Meets any of the requirements much less all of them
01:12:25: And so if there are no more apostles today and there aren't then then how do you have apostolic gifts?
01:12:32: That's a really good point. It's an umbrella then it is So not only do
01:12:37: I continue to flesh out the cessationist position and describe what that is the implications of it I talked about how there are no more apostles and prophets today
01:12:45: And so by extension there cannot be any more apostolic gifts today But what I really want everyone to take note of in that previous clip
01:12:53: Did you notice how that was a bit of a light bulb moment for Doreen? She said ah, that's a really good point
01:13:00: It was a it was a light bulb moment for us In other words what you're seeing literally right in front of your very eyes is some previous erroneous
01:13:11: Beliefs that she may have had are now being corrected because she's coming into a more full
01:13:18: Understanding of Scripture and in literally right in front of your eyes. You're seeing her Theology develop she's coming into a better understanding of the
01:13:26: Word of God. She's growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ She's growing in her understanding of the
01:13:32: Word of God. Just like you would expect a believer to do Interesting and encouraging
01:13:39: Remember earlier how Joshua really took Doreen to task and honestly mocked her for being a part of that Admittedly whacked out church
01:13:50: Episcopal Church, which is no church by the biblical definition of the term I affirm that but remember remember when he said this
01:13:57: Quote unquote Jesus that appears to Muslims and dreams and visions He usually sends them to bad churches
01:14:04: He will send them to a Roman Catholic Church or to a word -of -faith Church or and that's not the real
01:14:10: Jesus Jesus would not send someone to a bad church Episcopal is that it is traditional
01:14:17: Bible Center Jesus Center and open -minded they welcome people of all different backgrounds
01:14:24: They welcome people of the gay community. They ordain women as priests. They ordain openly gay people as priests they
01:14:31: They say we love as Jesus loved Jesus loved everyone and it's true so If you're looking for a non -judgmental church, let me just put in a plug for Episcopal Also known as Anglican because almost all of them are that way
01:14:50: God's Word describes people that embrace those ideas as such Those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of heaven
01:15:00: Read Romans 1 they not only do the same the same But they approve of those who do this is indicative of being given over to a reprobate mind
01:15:12: Not a good sign Whatsoever does Justin Peters not know or does he not care sure you remember that that was
01:15:19: Doreen talking about how after her vision of Jesus she went into an Episcopal Church and this is of course one of Joshua's Primary objections to all this is that after her vision of Jesus she went right into a bad church admittedly bad church that affirms homosexuality and He rightly points out that that is one of the sins listed in Romans 1 and is indicative of someone who has been given over To a depraved mind no argument there
01:15:46: My only argument comes in with him making that such an issue without apparently
01:15:54: Doing his due diligence because here's what Doreen said just a little bit later in my interview with her
01:16:01: Okay, great. That is great. This is so helpful Thank you so much because when
01:16:07: God pulled me out of the New Age I had this idea that I would go into some sort of you know very sanctified
01:16:13: Church Which I finally found my husband I go to a Reformed Church where there's no New Age nonsense at all
01:16:19: But gosh it was a long road to get there and figure it out So when I was we were first kind of stumbling around with these different churches
01:16:26: We were shocked that exactly what we had left in the New Age was there in these Churches these buildings that say
01:16:33: Christian Church on the front and we kind of felt ripped off we felt
01:16:39: Like there's all these false teachings one of them That really upset me because I was very involved with the psychic part of New Age where I was giving psychic readings and and Teaching psychic readings.
01:16:50: I've repented. I've apologized to everyone and if you haven't seen my apology, I apologize and so the way we were giving psychic readings is basically saying whatever popped in our head and Saying that was from a name.
01:17:03: So there you saw Doreen talking about how shortly after her Vision of Jesus or one of her visions of Jesus.
01:17:11: She went into one of these false Churches and she even gives the you know, the the air quotes churches, so Clearly she understands now that what she thought were churches
01:17:25: Back in the day are not churches. She understands that now so this is
01:17:31: Again, this is evidence of her progressive sanctification And Joshua you would have known that had you watched the video
01:17:41: And if you did watch the video shame on you for intentionally Misrepresenting Doreen here's another example of Doreen now understanding that some of what she used to be involved in was false watch this and and I true true confession just and I feel so ashamed about this when
01:18:01: I first was saved and I'm Stumbling around trying to figure out what it means to be a Christian after a lifetime of Christian science in New Age I started following a woman who actually runs a prophecy school and gives out certificates to be a prophet.
01:18:18: Oh My goodness, I mean I I came this close to being sucked into that. I thought well
01:18:23: You know, I was a good psychic in the New Age I could be a prophetess and it was God's sovereign nature that pulled me out of that and showed me
01:18:30: Teachers like yourself and Chris Roseboro and Kosti Hinn and helped to correct me
01:18:35: So there's yet another example of Doreen now understanding that the things with which she used to be involved
01:18:43: Were unbiblical. She's growing. This is what you expect from a believer
01:18:49: You see the pattern here dear ones You see how all of the things that Joshua laid out in his video that just seems so compelling seemed absolutely irrefutable
01:19:01: Like so many of the comments that I've seen in his video just absolutely irrefutable.
01:19:06: Do you see now? The first to plead his case seems right until Another comes along and examines him
01:19:15: Proverbs 18 17 good memory verse good verse to follow
01:19:23: This is not All I could show you I mean, there's many many many times in this video this interview that I did with Doreen that answers all of the questions that Joshua supposedly had
01:19:36: So too bad that he did what he did but in God's providence everything works out for the good
01:19:42: I'll talk more about that in just a second. But one of the one of the overarching primary concerns even the title of his video
01:19:50: Does Justin Peters now believe in visions or however exactly worded the title of his video? Doreen is actually about to ask me that very question
01:20:00: She's about to ask me that specific question the very question That Joshua supposedly had the very question around which he based his on which he based his entire
01:20:11: Two hour long video. She's about to ask me that question and I'm about to answer it
01:20:17: Let's watch Do you have time for one more question? Sure. Okay.
01:20:22: Thank you The Bible's filled with people receiving dreams from God and And so I wonder if you could talk about if dreams from God are still for today
01:20:34: Yes, great question and in short. No, they're not Hebrews 1 1 & 2
01:20:41: I think puts the brakes on this as I went to Hebrews 1 Did you notice her affirmation?
01:20:49: The writer of Hebrews says God Long ago spoke to the fathers and the prophets in many portions in many ways
01:20:56: But in these last days he has spoken to us in his son So the writer of Hebrews is saying in the old days
01:21:04: God spoke in a lot of different ways. He spoke in dreams He spoke in visions. He spoke in burning bushes.
01:21:10: He he he spoke on one occasion in a talking donkey He did speak in many different portions in many different ways
01:21:19: But in these last days says the writer of Hebrews he has spoken to us in his son
01:21:25: Jesus is the final speaking of God Everything that God has to say he has said in his son
01:21:32: Jesus Christ and we have a perfect inerrant infallible All -sufficient record of that in his word.
01:21:39: So Jesus is the final speaking of God. It's if people say oh, well
01:21:44: Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever if God spoke in dreams and visions Back then and he never changes and how can you say he's not doing that now?
01:21:54: Well, that's that's a misunderstanding It's a basic fundamental misunderstanding of what we call the immutability of God that God does not change
01:22:02: Christ does not change It's not that God has changed. It's not that his character and his nature has changed.
01:22:09: It's simply that his revelation has progressed Through the centuries culminating in the personal work of Christ.
01:22:16: So his character in his nature Unchanged from eternity past his revelation though has progressed
01:22:24: One of the mistakes that people make well if God did something in the days of the Bible that means he must be doing it
01:22:30: Today well, no, I mean God God parted the Red Sea, but I don't see
01:22:36: God parting seas You know God God made a donkey talk 22 but I haven't seen any talking donkeys
01:22:45: If you have if you are seeing talking donkeys, you probably need to spend some time in Ephesians chapter 5 and Suds so, you know, so it's a it's just a it's a it's a basic fundamental flaw that a
01:23:00: Logical flaw people make I love it. Thank you. You are such a clear speaker So Joshua, does that answer your question clearly enough?
01:23:10: Do you now understand that my theology on whether or not God speaks in dreams and visions has not changed
01:23:15: It is exactly the same as it always has been as the video clips that you use for me in years past Do you now understand that I hope so Now we are left with one of two possibilities
01:23:28: You either did not watch the interview that I did with Doreen virtue from which you took a 10 -second clip
01:23:36: You either did not watch it and if you did not watch it
01:23:41: Then therefore you have to explain your own words here
01:23:46: But do not answer a matter before you've heard it lest it be shame and folly to you. Don't even answer it internally.
01:23:52: Just wait Just wait, it's good advice Joshua It's too bad that you didn't follow it so If you did not watch the interview that I did with Doreen from which you took that 10 -second clip
01:24:07: Then you answered a matter before it was heard and it is shame and folly to you, sir
01:24:14: The other possibility is that you did watch the interview and you were very well aware of the things that I said
01:24:21: Not only were you aware that my theology has not changed but you would have also seen
01:24:27: Doreen's very Affirming responses to the things
01:24:32: I taught you would have seen how warmly she received The things that I taught you you would see that she grew in our understanding even in that very interview in Real time you would have seen that Joshua so if that is the case if you did watch the interview
01:24:47: Then you are a blatant liar and an intentional deceiver
01:24:53: One of those things must be true You either answered a matter before it was heard in a shame and folly to you
01:25:01: Or you did know about the interview and you just intentionally lied about it Neither one of those is a good possibility
01:25:11: One of the reasons that Proverbs 18 13 is in the Bible and this is a good lesson for all of us myself included one of the reasons that it's good not to answer a matter before it is heard lest it be shame and folly to us is because Not only is it shame and folly to us, but if we do that very thing
01:25:32: Weighing in on something before we really understand it Then there are ripple effects. There are consequences of that sin
01:25:39: You see the pernicious thing about sin is it it's never isolated sin always affects other people
01:25:45: And I'm gonna show you some of the effects of your sin, Joshua Either way you go with this whichever one of those two possibilities is the reality
01:25:55: Both of them are sin. Okay, and I'm going to show you some of the consequences of that sin
01:26:00: I'm gonna read some of the comments that I saw in the comment section under your video now
01:26:06: I want to say very clearly that I'm not saying Joshua is responsible for everybody that comments under his video.
01:26:14: Not at all. People are responsible for what they say Them and them alone. However, these comments are a direct result of the video
01:26:22: If Joshua had not put the video up Then these comments would not be there obviously and these comments are going to reflect people who just take
01:26:30: Joshua's word For things at face value without doing their own due diligence So I'm just gonna read a few of these just took a screenshot of a few of them
01:26:41: Sally mail says this it fills my heart with joy to see so many true believers not falling for the tricks of the devil
01:26:48: Doreen is a fraud. She claimed visions of Jesus back in her New Age days now as a quote -unquote Christian She got saved not by faith alone, but by a confirmation visit by something.
01:26:58: She claimed was Jesus I don't think so. That's complete blasphemy on the Holy Spirit and so many other sins
01:27:03: I'm just shocked at the hubris of the woman I'm shocked at the comments that professing
01:27:13: Christians would make towards a Young sister in the
01:27:19: Lord during virtue. I'm shocked at that. I'm shocked at that hubris Sally mail
01:27:25: Read a couple others Daniel canepa. She said he said Justin Peters ministries, why not admit the truth you interviewed an
01:27:34: Infiltrated witch of the worst kind the kind that deceives even even the most respected teachers and preaches another
01:27:41: Jesus a witch Honestly, honestly, just unbelievable that you call yourself a
01:27:48: Christian Everything you teach will now be contaminated because you are now blind May the Lord have mercy on those who follow you.
01:27:55: May the Lord have mercy on You may the Lord have mercy on those who Blindly follow the things that Joshua Chavez says and as we'll see in just a minute that it gets worse
01:28:08: Howard make Lee says this I've never heard blasphemy and Satanism as this ever Justin Peters and Phil Johnston Johnson, whatever show a character diametrically opposite to the
01:28:19: Apostle Paul who would cast the devil out of this witch Unbelievable Unbelievable Joshua it is your either blatant irresponsibility blatant negligence or your intentional deception that provides the fertile soil for this kind of Refuse and So in a sense you are
01:28:49: Irresponsible this is this is some of the consequences of your sin. This is why you should not answer a matter before it is heard now
01:28:59: I'm gonna change courses here just a little bit and As I mentioned earlier,
01:29:04: I believe the first I knew of this video that Joshua put up was an email from Doreen on the morning of May 5th
01:29:12: Tuesday, May 5th, and I I got Doreen's Permission to read some of these email.
01:29:18: I want everyone watching this to hear from Doreen because if your questions have not been answered thus far
01:29:26: I Think they certainly will here and I want you to I want I want to give you an insight
01:29:33: Into Doreen and what all went on here This is what I woke up to Tuesday morning.
01:29:39: Dear Justin. I I Made the public comment below She commented on the video that you would not have known about my full testimony when you were on my
01:29:54: YouTube program Indeed, I didn't and that you are consistent in your teaching that visions and dreams are not biblical
01:30:00: I learned a lot from you during the interview Please know that I do not sell or engage with it with anything.
01:30:07: That's New Age I read the Bible daily and pray that God will continue to purify me I was in the New Age for 25 years before Jesus saved me.
01:30:15: That's a long time that's a long time and don't you imagine that fresh out of being in a
01:30:21: Cult for a quarter of a century. You're probably you know, you're probably gonna have some some
01:30:28: New Age cobwebs that you've got to shake out and clear out of Yeah Okay, I Was in the
01:30:38: New Age for 25 years before Jesus saved me and other people continue to sell my old products against my express request to stop
01:30:46: That's an important point I don't know how to get them to stop and I can't afford to get a lawyer after Jesus saved me
01:30:52: I literally walked away from a very lucrative New Age career to follow Jesus I've been persecuted by New Agers since then but I've also talked with many people who've come out of the
01:31:00: New Age because Because of God used my testimony. I've asked people to watch the full video that you made on my
01:31:07: YouTube channel Too bad Joshua didn't or let's at least hope he didn't
01:31:12: Because you are very consistent with your teaching against visions and other charismatics service
01:31:17: Christi took it out of context no kidding Again, please accept my apologies for this situation.
01:31:24: I have the utmost respect for you and your ministry sincerely Doreen virtue What a gracious email that was my first Knowledge that anything was even going on And so I responded to her and I told her that I did not know anything about her testimony and I wrote this in response
01:31:40: I said I did not know about that part of your testimony when
01:31:45: I did the interview with you. I had no idea I have since heard something along those lines, but even now do not know the details again.
01:31:52: This is Tuesday. I Understand the situation you're with you are in with other people continuing to sell your old stuff.
01:31:59: That makes perfect sense So for my own clarification You say that you no longer have visions, correct?
01:32:07: If that is the case, do you think it is possible that the vision you thought you had of Jesus? I do not know the details of it
01:32:13: I have that in parentheses was possibly some New Age hangovers or just something from your imagination
01:32:18: That you at the time thought thought was real, but now realize may not have been I appreciate you reaching out to me
01:32:25: Doreen Blessings to you Justin She responded Dear Justin.
01:32:30: Here's a summary of my testimony Although other people continue to sell my old New Age products against my express request to stop
01:32:38: I absolutely absolutely do not use Tarot cards or any New Age methods or teaching since 2017 when
01:32:46: I was saved after the following sequence of events Number one. I heard an Alistair Begg sermon about false prophets itching years second to me for in January 2015 which convicted me of being a false teacher
01:32:59: That sermon pointed number two that sermon pointed me to begin attending church on January 7th 2017 during a church service
01:33:07: I saw a quote vision that prompted me to get out of the New Age and begin studying the
01:33:14: Bible I don't know if I want to okay This gets into some theology, but when a person is converted
01:33:25: That is not a goat turning into a sheep Goats don't turn into sheep sheep don't turn into a goat into goats when a person is converted that person
01:33:36: Is a sheep it's he or she is just a lost sheep We've been sheep from before the foundation of the world.
01:33:44: That's the doctrine of election but we were just lost sheep and so When someone is called to the
01:33:52: Shepherd John chapter 10 verse 27, they hear the voice of the Shepherd they go to it that is that is conversion and So Anyway that this is this is
01:34:03: Doreen just in the you know And that those initial stages in which the Shepherd is calling her to himself
01:34:11: And so she she the truth the truth resonated with her enough to know that she had to get out of New Age But it's she still wasn't converted
01:34:20: So anyway, I digress number three when I read Deuteronomy 18 10 through 12, which says that people or when
01:34:26: I read Which says that people who practice fortune -telling divination and mediumship or an abomination to God that passage broke me because before then in my
01:34:35: New Age Mindset I thought there was nothing wrong with cards because they seem to help and comfort people number four
01:34:41: That day in 2017 when I first read Deuteronomy 18 I deeply repented with grief for having disobeyed
01:34:48: God and I surrendered my life to Jesus as my Lord and Savior I threw away my New Age materials announced to everyone that my prior teachings were false
01:34:56: Received countless hate letters slanderous videos from angry New Agers was fired by my new publisher lost my home hmm
01:35:06: Lost my home because of the income drop and prayed to learn how to trust God Now I spend each day answering letters on Instagram from people needing practical help and leaving the
01:35:17: New Age I attend seminary to learn how to rightly Rightly divide if any number five if anyone now now listen this if Anyone can see anything.
01:35:29: I'm doing currently that's unbiblical. I Welcome loving correction from both brothers and sisters in Christ all glory to God Doreen D virtue
01:35:43: That's humility that's some good fruit a
01:35:49: A desire to be corrected if there's anything that others see in her that is unbiblical.
01:35:55: She says I welcome loving correction Emphasis on loving by the way, that is how we should offer correction not
01:36:08: What we just witnessed from Joshua Chavez So I responded to her I said
01:36:13: I Said I hope that I'm not come away across as accusatory because that is not at all my intent
01:36:19: I'm just trying to understand all the things. I see people are saying Have you watched his video or do you plan to?
01:36:27: And I sent that to her and then she responded. Thank you so much for your gracious kindness I do not feel like you're accusing me accusing me
01:36:34: But I feel horrible that Joshua has tried to come against you based upon my sinful past Really bothers her that that I was attacked because of her sinful past you see the humility in her
01:36:47: I'm not planning on watching the videos these kinds of things upset me too much I get that because I that's why
01:36:53: I didn't want to watch his video either initially and I didn't for a day or so at least
01:37:00: Because they upset me too, I don't like them but anyway, she says I'm a relatively new
01:37:06: Christian But I'm aware that it's a sin to make up stories and lie about people as he's done in this video From what people are saying about it such as claiming.
01:37:13: I currently use tarot cards Jesus tells us to pray for our enemies. So that's what I'm doing.
01:37:19: I pray that God uses this video to glorify himself Anyway, thank you for your kindness all glory to God and then
01:37:30: You know, remember when Joshua Chavez made it a point in his video about Doreen Going to endorsing an
01:37:36: Episcopal Church with a priestess. Well, this is what she had to say about that She said hi Justin.
01:37:42: I'm so sorry because I brought that point up to her. Hi, Justin. I'm so sorry again I'm so sorry that my sinful past is inconvenienced you like this
01:37:50: I deeply apologize if it has had any effect on your ministry whatsoever I have the deepest respect and appreciation for you and your ministry before I was saved
01:37:59: I made some videos because I was being called by Jesus. I didn't understand salvation justification or sanctification at all
01:38:07: I was still a stupid new age sinner with new age beliefs and vocabulary When I made those videos in 2017 wearing bright new age
01:38:16: Goddess gowns. I was attending an Episcopal Church, which welcomes the gay community and female pastors at that time
01:38:23: I was still a universalist. I have since repented and I absolutely know that the listen
01:38:29: I absolutely know that the Bible condemns female pastors and homosexuality as sins
01:38:37: I Believe in those videos. I also said that God talks through tarot cards, which I believed at that time was as an unsaved
01:38:44: Biblically illiterate person. I absolutely condemn cards now as abominations There's no way that God would ever condone a sinful tool like a tarot card
01:38:53: Deuteronomy 18x 19. I pray that people understand that I made those videos before I was saved and before I began studying the whole
01:39:00: Bible I've taken those videos off of my site but other people continue to share them with the apparent intention of slandering me all glory to God and I know that I'm gonna
01:39:12: We exchange a few other emails and in all of them. She just continued to apologize. She continued to clarify.
01:39:19: She continued to Express her desire to receive Loving biblical correction and and she has done so she has actually proven that she's born
01:39:29: Some of that good fruit. So, you know, it is really too bad that Joshua Chavez did what he did and it's too bad all the people jumping on this bandwagon and attacking me attacking
01:39:43: John MacArthur attacking Phil Johnson Attacking Doreen virtue. It really is too bad.
01:39:49: I'm I'm so I'm so glad that these kind of people
01:39:56: Were not the kind of people that Doreen virtue first ran into After she came out of the
01:40:02: New Age movement My goodness, you know with people like this that call themselves
01:40:07: Christian and the way they speak towards others Probably good thing she went into a
01:40:16: Wacky Episcopal Church first. I'm glad these aren't the kind of people that she first ran into so I'm gonna change directions now again and go into another section.
01:40:30: I want to say something about Joshua Chavez I First my paths first crossed with him.
01:40:37: I don't know five years or so ago He called me and initially he seemed teachable initially seemed nice and like he wanted to learn was teachable
01:40:47: But as the conversations went on a few of them, he just became increasingly Hyper hyper critical way beyond what would be normal and healthy and needed discernment to the point where if I understand him correctly, he doesn't even believe that pastors and elders are biblical and Joshua Chavez does not belong to a church now.
01:41:14: I've asked him that in fact in a phone call that he recorded of me
01:41:20: He and I had a phone conversation A few years ago and he recorded it secretly now. He says he didn't secretly record it because he said he just forgot that he
01:41:30: Recorded all of his phone calls. He said I record all of my phone calls And so he said I didn't think to tell you just because I did in the same way
01:41:36: I didn't think to tell you about my Serpentine belt or something like that. He used some illustration in his engine, you know
01:41:43: He just he were apparently records all of his phone calls. I mean who does that who records all of their phone calls, but whatever
01:41:51: But he was trying to get me to say something negative about John MacArthur in this interview
01:41:57: Interview in this phone call that he was recording unbeknownst to me and then he put it up on his
01:42:02: YouTube channel Another kind of a gotcha thing But it was up for quite a while and in looking at the comments almost
01:42:12: Almost 100 % of the comments were against him Very unfavorable towards him and so apparently he has taken that video down a couple of other points
01:42:24: I want to raise about Joshua is One of the things about him is that he does not belong to a church if you saw the video of The phone call that he secretly recorded of me and put it up on his
01:42:39: YouTube channel when he tried to get me to say Something untoward towards John MacArthur and criticized him
01:42:45: I asked him in the conversation Joshua. Where do you go to church? That's one of the first things.
01:42:50: I want to know anytime Someone criticizes me in a very public way. I want to know that's
01:42:56: I want to know where do you go to church and Almost without exception the loudest most vocal critics.
01:43:02: I have angriest critics I have That is one thing that they have in common is that they do not go to church.
01:43:09: There is no local body of believers To whom they are accountable and this is true of Joshua now.
01:43:17: He says he's got some Home church kind of thing that he does with some other
01:43:24: I suppose what he would call like -minded believers. I don't know who they are how many there are I don't think there's many of them at all.
01:43:31: But anyway, he calls this a church, but it's not a church It's not a church It doesn't meet the biblical qualifications of a church not because they meet in a home and I understand that a real church is not determined by Whether or not you have a brick -and -mortar
01:43:48: Structure that you go to I mean it you can as long as you have a fellowship of believers like -minded believers that meet the biblical qualifications of a church that have biblically qualified elders that do church discipline that Observe the
01:44:05: Lord's Supper and believers baptism and all these things, you know, that would be a Church I don't care if you meet under a pecan tree.
01:44:12: It doesn't matter the location, but it does matter how the Bible describes a church and defines a church and Joshua's own record is not believing in pastors and elders or at least not wanting to Submit to them this despite Acts chapter 20, 1st
01:44:28: Peter chapter 5, Hebrews chapter 13 all the biblical qualifications for an elder that Paul lines out in his
01:44:37: Love letter 1st Timothy that you know that they have those qualifications must be there for a reason someone must need to fulfill them, but Joshua doesn't believe in that and he's on record as as Having that view.
01:44:51: In fact, if you'll look at some of the links Below I've always wanted to do this I've seen I've seen other
01:44:57: YouTube videos and the person the host will say look at the link below I've never done this before but anyway
01:45:03: Look in the description of this video and I'll have these links for you and you can read those articles and I would encourage you to do so They go into tremendous detail
01:45:13: Detailing some of the very real concerns with Joshua and that is one of them is that he has no accountability
01:45:20: He has no meaningful accountability. Whatever this home church thing is that he claims to have they
01:45:27: You know, they it doesn't meet the biblical qualifications For church and so basically he's he's rogue.
01:45:34: He doesn't There's no one to whom he has any accountability any meaningful accountability
01:45:41: So anyway, that's documented in the description below But I also want to talk about how he how he treats brothers or at least who are ostensibly brothers in Christ some of the
01:45:55: Vile things that he has said about good faithful men men that but that I know that I love and respect and He is one thing for just for me.
01:46:07: He has called me. Let's see a hypocrite. You heard that in this video It's called me a hypocrite. He's called me pathetic coward a fraud
01:46:16: False prophet and he said my behavior is quote tantamount to whoredom itself
01:46:23: Okay Conrad Mbewe he calls an ecumenist and Just as a side note one of the criticisms that I often hear from people is that oh these big -name preachers.
01:46:34: They're Arrogant and they're unapproachable and they don't care about the little guy. Well, this is a picture
01:46:40: This is uh, this is the top of Conrad Mbewe's head How did
01:46:47: I get that picture well, those are my feet and This is when I was in Zambia back in December of 2019 and Conrad came to help me get my compression socks on Each morning.
01:46:58: I can't put compression socks on by myself. They're too tight but Conrad So very gracious came and helped me each morning with my compression socks
01:47:08: He even called it came to call it our little ritual. So there he is. There's your there's your big -name
01:47:14: Evangelical celebrity that's just above everyone Stooping down to help me with my socks
01:47:22: Phil Johnson and Todd Friel he calls hypocrites deceivers
01:47:27: Pharisees frauds false prophets he claims Paul Washer is in cahoots with the
01:47:35: Roman Catholic Church that is in partnership with the Roman Catholic Church, which is just ludicrous, uh, and I and I all that's documented in the down in In the description below in those links,
01:47:48: I Want to talk about what he said about John MacArthur because in this
01:47:56: Video that he has now taken down the phone call that he recorded of me the conversation that we had this is what he said of John MacArthur.
01:48:06: I just want to read this to you Justin has remained deafeningly silent deafeningly silent while his friends in the ministry prostitute themselves commit spiritual fornication
01:48:18: John MacArthur at this point is a spiritual whore and yes, the terminology is deliberate
01:48:27: Every time somebody in the Old Testament when the children of Israel are playing with other gods playing with people
01:48:33: They shouldn't be playing with God likens it to harlotry to adultery. It's sexually explicit
01:48:39: Why because you're mingling with them you're mingling they're spiritually transmitted diseases now become yours.
01:48:45: That's what's happening You're witnessing spiritual whoredom take place and nobody seems to care.
01:48:55: I say this without any Sarcasm without any hyperbole and I say this without any
01:49:03: Intention of vulgarity because I know this phrase can be misunderstood and mistaken. But if you think
01:49:11: John MacArthur is a spiritual whore And you're gonna if you if you're gonna take your discernment cues from a man who says such things then
01:49:26: May God help you Honestly may God help you because I can't
01:49:34: I can't To call a man like John MacArthur a man who has been a faithful pastor for now over 50 years 51 and counting years a man who has
01:49:49: Who is a genuinely humble man? I've been around him enough to to see real humility on his part in some very unscripted kind of moments just see genuine humility on the part of that man to call someone like him a
01:50:05: Spiritual whore You know, I There's nothing
01:50:11: I can say there there's nothing I can do to help you if you think that And it is a it is a test of my sanctification not to let my flesh get the better of me just in reading that It's unbelievable but if this is those of you who are watching those of you who have been following Joshua Chavez and Seeing his praises for being so brave and courageous if this is who you want to take your cues from May God help you.
01:50:41: I can't I can't Let's Let's land the plane here.
01:50:47: Just a few verses in conclusion some things that I would like all of us to keep in mind Proverbs 11 9 with his mouth the godless man destroys his neighbor
01:50:56: But through knowledge the righteous will be delivered With his with his mouth the godless man destroys his neighbor
01:51:05: You know, you look through Joshua's YouTube channel and and almost all of it is not all of it but a lot of it is is attacking good faithful men and He with his mouth.
01:51:19: He destroys his neighbor. He he's slanders and attacks good and faithful men and Even to someone like Doreen virtue the way he has handled her and treated her
01:51:31: Absolutely appalling one of the things that Doreen told me in one of her emails. I probably should have read this but She actually said in one of her emails.
01:51:39: She said I'm very accessible and and she is I every time I've emailed her She's emailed me back almost immediately.
01:51:44: She's she's very accessible Joshua if you had questions about her The things that she said, you know, why didn't you contact her and ask her these questions?
01:51:55: She would have answered you but no you just fly off the handle and put together your two hour long video
01:52:02: Attacking her and attacking me as we have seen very unjustly You've done her harm
01:52:09: You've done her harm with your mouth Proverbs 17 verse 4 an evildoer listens to wicked lips a
01:52:19: Liar pays attention to a destructive tongue an evildoer listens to wicked lips May this be a warning to those of you who just glibly and Joyfully accepted what
01:52:30: Joshua put up on his video that you now see as false Shame on you for doing that shame on you.
01:52:37: It is it is shame and folly to you to do such And to me if I do that Proverbs 6 16 through 19
01:52:47: There are six things which the Lord hates yes seven which are an abomination to him Haughty eyes a lying tongue in hands that shed innocent blood a heart that devises wicked plans feet that run rapidly to evil a false witness who utters
01:53:03: Lies a false witness who utters Lies and one who spreads strife among brothers
01:53:13: Boy I have seen those who so strife among brothers and I Tell you what
01:53:23: Joshua unfortunately you are you are near the top of that heap
01:53:29: You are near the top of that heap That should give you pause First John 3 verse 14
01:53:39: We know that we have passed out of death into life because we love the brethren he who does not love abides in death one of the marks of The regenerate heart is a love for the brethren a deep and abiding love for the brethren
01:53:55: Friends I've preached all over the world and it does not matter where I go in the world does not matter what country
01:54:00: I'm in What culture I'm in does not matter even what language is spoken doesn't matter
01:54:05: What color our skin is when I am with like -minded believers there is there is an instant bond an instant
01:54:12: Love an instant kindred spirit with these people Because they're my family.
01:54:19: They're my brothers and sisters in Christ We may not agree on every single little jot and tittle but but we're like -minded and there's it's just like Two magnets in the opposite poles and just they go right together
01:54:32: And that just you know I can I can meet a like -minded brother or sister somewhere halfway around the world for five minutes
01:54:39: And I just I love them. I love them. They're my family We've been adopted into the family of God by the merits of Christ I love them
01:54:53: Because that is the work of the Holy Spirit Where is your love sir?
01:55:01: Anywhere where where I have not seen a scintilla Not a hint of any love that you would have for any of these people and you may say.
01:55:11: Oh speaking The truth is like yes speaking the truth is love, but there is a way to speak the truth But you haven't even spoken the truth
01:55:17: So you're you're a long way from the in truth part you haven't you or the in love part? You haven't gotten to the truth part yet.
01:55:27: Where's your love for Doreen Virtue? Where's your love? Where's your love?
01:55:35: Okay dear ones I'm gonna end this as I said earlier.
01:55:40: This is this is not a good thing. This is What happened here is not a good thing. It is not a good thing that Joshua did what he did but Romans 8 28 is true and God and his good providence works together all things for the good and Though this was not a good thing.
01:55:58: I hope and pray Genuinely that this will serve as a as a lesson for all of us
01:56:05: The first one to plead his case seems right until another comes along and examines him
01:56:10: I hope that this is a lesson for all of us me included. So Thank you very much dear ones for watching
01:56:18: Lord willing or the next video I'll put up will be a lot shorter and maybe even of a more positive nature.