April 9, 2020 Show with Rev. Bill Shishko on “Ministry in a Post-COVID World”

The Supernatural Meaning of Corporate Worship and the Limits of Virtual Assembly

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 9th day of April, 2020, and I'm thrilled to have return as my guest today, a very dear friend for many years, going back to the late 1980s when I was still whipped behind the ears for my baptism as a very brand new Christian, Bill Shishko, who is the pastor of The Haven in Deer Park, Long Island, New York.

That is a congregation in the denomination known as the OPC, and more specifically, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. And today, we are going to be addressing ministry in a post-COVID world. Are we ever going to have a post-COVID world?

Welcome back, my dear friend, Pastor Bill Shishko. That really is a good question. And for those of our listeners who may be joining us for the first time and have never heard you before on the show, or maybe they have never heard of your show, which is currently on hiatus, a visit to the pastor's study, perhaps we could have you give, again, a brief summary description of The Haven.

Yeah.

Well, for 35 years, Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, during which time you and I met, I had a little period, a few years, where I was what was called a regional home missionary, working, always hankered to be baptized, and I was urged to stop.

Great. Well, I want our listeners to know that that website for The Haven is thehavenli, standing for longisland .com, thehavenli .com. Let me also give you the website for the Orthodox Presbyterian denomination, because you can perhaps, if you don't have a church home, find a church near where you live anywhere in the world at opc .org, opc .org.

And before I forget, I just want to let you know that my dear friend, Jeff Thomas, wanted to send to you his warm greetings. He was on the show twice last week, and he's going to be on twice again in two weeks.

He's going to be on from Monday the 20th through Tuesday the 21st of April, and I am just so thrilled that he loves doing this program. And Joe Morecraft on. Oh, yes. He also sends his greetings. Yeah, it's like old home week.

Yes, and Joe's coming back on Tuesday the 5th of May. Well, let's start with this ministry in a post-COVID world. I guess a lot of this, or at least some of it, is going to be assessments from knowledge of your work that you've been involved in for decades in ministry, because some of this is a mystery that we see ahead of us, or that we envision, I should say, ahead of us.

Yeah, well, living is a reorganization, and it's an enigmatic tech, and we don't know, and we're not in 10 years of marriage in it. I think an analogy would be a tension of the ordinary social patterns, and we're in the middle of extra.

I think that that may be helpful for your audience, but anyway, these would be... Frankly, I'm getting sick of this. Me too. I really am. The virtual worship phenomenon is really not new, and evangelicals were up, but now you see at length, as you and I discussed, I want to do a whole show, Greg Reynolds, Dr. Gregory Reynolds, because this is important, but the families that are there talking with them can be worshiped in the home.

But that is not corpse cybernosticism, the idea that the only thing really important is to communicate information and people to this idea. I want to overstate my fears with time constraints. For America, concern that the discipline, and then for ministers...

Right. James Montgomery Boyce, as you may remember, was very leery about visual media, which is why he much preferred radio and audio when he was doing the Bible study hour and other things.

Exactly. That's also true of Dr. Joel Niederhood and the Back to Gods, and that is an excellent book service. Yes, CVBBS .com. This one wouldn't be available. Churches, all of our work by... That is not only a massive mistake, it would do the sharpening.

Of iron. Well, we have a question, I think, that is great to start our discussion because it relates to what you just said in some very significant ways. We have, let's see here, RJ in White Plains, New York, and RJ says, is there not something supernatural going on when we physically gather together as saints for a corporate assembly where Christ is uniquely present amongst us?

Well, that's a... that's what you heard in New York. Normally, when you want a question, they give you a dissertation.

One of the reasons I prefer email questions than phone calls. You're smart.

RJ, spot on. Absolutely. Where two or three are gathered together...

In fact, let me just take one more question because it also relates to things that you're saying right now. Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, says, I am getting sick and tired of hearing Matthew 18, verse 20, for reasons that it was not intended.

People are using it as an excuse not to gather because they say, hey, wherever two or three are gathered in my name, I am in their midst. So, therefore, we don't have to go to the larger assembly. We could be at home with a couple of other Christians.

Yeah, but a real context of that... Susan Margaret. Susan Margaret. Yeah, she's absolutely right. And that's very much by American individuals. Well, I'm glad Jesus is at work in you. Jesus is at work in a body as well.

Okay, well, let's continue on with your perspective.

Right. Yeah, let me just say a second about... You have to have advertisements in the United States of America telling you to wash your hands a lot. We're really in bad shape. So, I mean, I get... Just ought not...

And that church brought these fascinating... Anyway, his Christian directory, he answers... And one of them is, may we omit church assemblies on the Lord's Day. The pastor's answer was, it's one thing to forbid them for a time upon some special...

Wow. ...church assembly... You see a child drowning and... Yes, there's a... It's a natural duty. It's a renunciation of Christ in our religion. We cannot do... ...some assemblies for a time that we...

...insightful... ...so that you don't... So, and I get that... ...an address in the past... ...maybe he... ...the work of the ministry... ...with the medical work, which deals with the body... ...afraid of death...

Help, well, that's what I mean by overreach. I'm down the line. And the United States has accepted that. It's a... ...true danger is when liberty is... We do have an anonymous listener.

I'm not sure why they would be anonymous over this. But the question is... Our catechism has something very important to say on the issues of national emergency. Question 72. What is the Sixth Commandment?

The Sixth Commandment is thou shalt not murder. Question 73. What is required in the Sixth Commandment? The Sixth Commandment requireth all lawful endeavors to preserve our own life and the life of others.

Question 74. What is forbidden in the Sixth Commandment? The Sixth Commandment absolutely forbiddeth the taking away of our own life... ...or the life of our neighbor unjustly... ...or whatsoever... ...tendeth thereunto.

So I'm assuming that this is being... ...put in relationship to the fact that we are perhaps... ...going to infect someone resulting in their death... ...or become infected ourselves... ...resulting in our death...

...by haphazardly or... ...or just not being extremely careful in our social communication and assembling and so on. But if you have any comment on that. My wife and I... We have time for one more question before our break.

And this is from a mutual friend. James Brewer. I usually don't mention people's full names. But Jimmy in Deer Park, Long Island. And in fact I have to enlarge his question... ...because the font is microscopic in the email.

And let me use this time to repeat our email address. ChrisArns in it. Gmail .com if you have a question as well. Pastor Shishko, with mandatory quarantine for much of our country... ...are you concerned that domestic and child abuse... ...will be even more on the rise?

And how can we as a church minister to that... ...after police and CPS have been involved? And if you want, why don't you answer that when we come back. Yeah, that's...

I have that, Chris, in the second hour of the program.

It's an excellent question. Okay, Jimmy. You heard Pastor Bill, so please listen to the whole show... ...so you can hear the answer to your question later on. And as I said before, if anybody else wants to join Jimmy with a question... ...our email address is ChrisArnsin at gmail .com.

ChrisArnsin at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, city and state and country of residence. If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous. If the question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away.

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That's SolidRockRemodeling .com. Solid Rock Remodeling... ...bringing new life to your home. Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen... ...if you just tuned us in. Our guest today for the full two hours... ...with a little less than 90 minutes to go... ...is Pastor Bill Shishko of The Haven... ...an OPC or Orthodox Presbyterian Church Congregation... ...in Deer Park, Long Island, New York.

And today we are discussing ministering... ...in a post-COVID -19 world. And I know that you want to discuss... ...changes come after every personal... ...and national crisis.

Well, Chris, as you know... ...Israel is in exile for 70 years... ...and then it comes back after the exile. Well, it's the same Israel... ...same ordinances... ...Jerusalem and the honeymoon period... ...following the... ...and then the church is ejected... ...after Stephen is persecuted... ...is either ejected... ...and they go into the world... ...1929... ...World War II... ...pandemic... ...I wasn't alive then... ...but from what I've read... ...I mean, it's a war... ...in the wartime economy... ...9 -11 is infectious... ...again... ...we get that... ...the other... ...unlike 9 -11... ...habits... ...the airlines... ...were made to change... ...a couple of months... ...of an enforced... ...unusual situation... ...sons of... ...exactly... ...ministering... ...I'm thankful to be learning... ...some new... ...things about... ...tell our things... ...certain meetings... ...with him... ...we had an hour... ...discipling meeting on the phone... ...and some counseling... ...as long as you're not... ...early church was the idea... ...that anything... ...that was... ...I'm not questioning... ...that's a travesty... ...and seats... ...really that important... ...other than on that... ...I'll be... ...rejoice... ...any right from... ...the assembly... ...same... ...as that... ...can touch by... ...Tim Chester is excellent... ...in that regard... ...they hear the... ...the rejoicing of... ...and... ...and the Lord's... ...supper... ...supper... ...how do you have... ...Paul says... ...welcome one another... ...we need to ask forgiveness... ...of one another... ...you see... ...and... ...I mean these are so... ...based on what I said... ...what I said in the previous part... ...ministry...

The Home, the Family, and Ministry After COVID-19

...and we're meant to do... ...and by the way... ...you might be interested... ...in this as well... ...Pastor Bill... ...but... ...on Tuesday... ...May 12th... ...4 to 6 p .m. as always... ...Monday... ...my friend... ...Pastor Jeffrey D. Johnson... ...of Grace Bible Church... ...in Conway, Arkansas... ...who's also the founder... ...of Free Grace Press... ...he's going to be discussing... ...counterfeit communion... ...so mark your calendars folks... ...we're going to our... ...midway break right now... ...please be patient with us... ...it's a longer than normal break... ...because we have to... ...have this break... ...because our friends... ...at Grace Life Radio... ...who air this program... ...twice a day... ...in morning drive... ...and also... ...in the evening... ...we're going to be discussing... ...they are required... ...by the FCC... ...to have their own... ...public service announcements... ...and other things... ...locally... ...to Lake City, Florida... ...aired on the show... ...to localize it to... ...Great City, Florida... ...so therefore... ...while they air those messages... ...we air our own... ...globally heard commercials... ...and we urge you... ...to use this time wisely... ...to write down the information... ...provided by our advertisers... ...so that you can more frequently... ...and successfully... ...patronize them... ...which we count on you to do... ...if you love the show... ...and you want it to... ...remain on the air... ...we need... ...the advertising dollars... ...from our sponsors... ...to exist... ...so please... ...try to patronize them... ...as much as possible... ...and sometimes... ...that may even mean... ...that you're just writing them... ...to thank them... ...for sponsoring the show... ...especially if it's a church... ...and it's... ...it's so far away from you... ...you can't even visit it... ...send them a letter... ...or an email at least... ...or give them a phone call... ...and say... ...I really want to thank you... ...for sponsoring... ...Iron Sharpens Iron Radio... ...but of course... ...if it's a business... ...or something else... ...please try to patronize... ...these sponsors... ...as much as you can... ...but also... ...send us a question... ...to Bill Shishko... ...about ministry... ...in a post-COVID -19 world... ...it's chrisarnson... ...at gmail .com... ...chrisarnson... ...at gmail .com... ...don't go away... ...we'll be back... ...after these messages... As host of... ...Iron Sharpens Iron Radio... ...I frequently... ...get requests... ...from listeners... ...for church recommendations... ...a church I've been... ...strongly recommending... ...as far back as the 1980's... ...is Grace Covenant Baptist Church... ...in Flemington, New Jersey... ...pastored by Alan Dunn... ...Grace Covenant Baptist Church... ...believes it's God's prerogative... ...to determine... ...how he shall be worshiped... ...and how he shall be... ...represented in the world... ...they believe churches... ...need to turn to the Bible... ...to discover... ...what to include in worship... ...and how to worship God... ...in spirit and truth... ...Grace Covenant Baptist Church... ...endeavors to maintain... ...a God-centered focus... ...reading, preaching... ...and hearing the Word of God... ...singing psalms, hymns... ...and spiritual songs... ...baptism and communion... ...are the scriptural elements... ...of their corporate worship... ...performed with faith... ...joy and sobriety... ...discover more about... ...Grace Covenant Baptist Church... ...in Flemington, New Jersey... ...at gcbcnj .squarespace .com ...that's gcbcnj .squarespace .com ...or call them at... ...908 -996 -7654 ...that's 908 -996 -7654 ...tell Pastor Dunn... ...that you heard about... ...Grace Covenant Baptist Church... ...on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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That's... ...ptlbiblerebinding .com. The coronavirus pandemic... ...has rapidly changed... ...our way of life... ...bringing so many... ...uncertainties. When will it end? Why do disasters... ...like this happen?

How do we deal... ...with anxiety... ...fear... ...and the like? Well, join us... ...each Friday... ...on the program... ...Iron Sharpens... ...with your host... ...Chris Arnzen... ...and Pastor Joe Jacobs... ...as they explore... ...God's Word... ...for answers... ...to this... ...and other... ...of life's related issues.

Tune in... ...at... ...firstloveradio .org. That's... ...firstloveradio .org. Each Friday... ...at 1 p .m. Pacific... ...4 p .m. Eastern. That's... ...Iron Sharpens Iron... ...on... ...firstloveradio .org.

Friday's... ...1 p .m. Pacific... ...4 p .m. Eastern... ...to hear what... ...the Bible... ...has to say... ...about... ...pandemics... ...and how we should respond. Charles Haddon Spurgeon... ...once said... Solid Ground Christian Books... ...is a publisher... ...and book distributor... ...who takes these words... ...of the Prince of Preachers... ...to heart.

The mission of... ...Solid Ground Christian Books... ...is to bring back... ...treasures of the past... ...to minister... ...to Christians in the present... ...and future... ...and to publish new titles... ...that address burning issues... ...in the church... ...and the world.

Since its beginning... ...in 2001... ...Solid Ground... ...has been committed... ...to publish God-centered... ...Christ-exalting books... ...for all ages. We invite you... ...to go treasure hunting... ...at... ...solid-ground-books .com.

That's... ...solid-ground-books .com ...and see what priceless... ...literary gems... ...from the past to present... ...you can unearth... ...from Solid Ground. Solid Ground Christian Books... ...is honored... ...to be a weekly sponsor... ...of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And don't forget folks...

...every time... ...you purchase books... ...from Solid Ground Christian Books... ...you are helping... ...Iron Sharpens Iron Radio... ...to remain on the air... ...because they are... ...a primary sponsor... ...of this program.

In fact... ...not only... ...uh... ...did Mike Gaydosh... ...founder of... ...Solid Ground Christian Books... ...pay his advertising bill... ...this month... ...on... ...an additional financial gift... ...so why not... ...contact them... ...order some books... ...and thank him... ...for... ...uh... ...not only... ...uh... ...sponsoring the show... ...but for the extra gift he sent... ...because it's urgently needed... ...at this time... ...and there's all kinds of reasons... ...for buying gifts... ...coming up in the near future... ...there are... ...wedding anniversaries... ...there are birthdays... ...there's Easter coming up... ...well that's... ...this Sunday... ...so... ...you might not have time... ...to get something before Easter... ...but... ...uh... ...there are... ...uh... ...graduation gifts... ...going back to school gifts... ...all kinds of reasons to buy gifts... ...whether... ...the person you're buying that gift for... ...is a Christian... ...or... ...somebody who does not know Christ... ...Solid Ground Christian Books... ...is the perfect place... ...to go... ...anyway... ...because... ...not only will you edify... ...and... ...educate... ...and... ...encourage... ...a brother or sister in Christ... ...with books from... ...Solid Ground Christian Books... ...but you may also lead... ...a lost person... ...to Christ... ...through the book that you send them... ...so... ...remember... ...solid... ...dash... ...ground... ...dash... ...books... ...dot... ...com... ...solid... ...dash... ...ground... ...dash... ...books... ...dot... ...com... ...and... ...always remember... ...to tell... ...them... ...that you heard about... ...Solid Ground Christian Books... ...from Chris Arnson... ...on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio... ...before we return to Bill Shishko... ...on our theme today... ...Ministry in a Post-COVID -19 World... ...just have a couple of brief announcements... ...as far as we know... ...we are still going to be conducting... ...our next... ...free... ...Spring... ...Iron Sharpens Iron Radio... ...Pastor's Luncheon... ...on Friday, May 29th... ...right here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania... ...for the very first time... ...at the Bongiorno Conference Center... ...in Carlisle... ...and... ...for the very first time... ...we're also... ...delighted... ...excited... ...thrilled... ...to announce... ...that we are going to be having... ...God willing... ...Dr. Conrad M. Bayway... ...as our speaker... ...Dr. M. Bayway... ...has been my friend... ...since 1995... ...the church where I was... ...a member before moving to Pennsylvania... ...Grace Reformed Baptist Church... ...of Long Island in Merrick... ...was the very first congregation... ...where Dr. Conrad M. Bayway preached... ...in the United States... ...during a visit here... ...and... ...we have maintained... ...a close friendship ever since... ...he is absolutely extraordinary... ...I urge you... ...if you are a man... ...in ministry leadership... ...this is not for the ladies... ...this is for men... ...in ministry leadership... ...whether you're a pastor... ...an elder... ...and I think those are the same office... ...by the way... ...a deacon... ...a parachurch leader... ...whatever kind of... ...leadership position you have... ...if you're a man... ...please send me a registration... ...at... ...chrisarnson... ...at gmail .com... ...chrisarnson... ...at gmail .com... ...it's absolutely free of charge... ...not only will you hear Dr. M. Bayway... ...preach for free... ...and be fed a sumptuous meal... ...by the Bon Giorno Conference Center... ...for free... ...but you'll be leaving... ...with a very heavy sack... ...of free... ...brand new books... ...donated by... ...major Christian publishers... ...all over the United States... ...and the United Kingdom... ...which I have personally selected... ...for the men... ...attending... ...and... ...that's all free... ...and this was a custom... ...a tradition... ...began... ...by my precious... ...late wife Julie... ...who is now in eternity with Christ... ...back in the 1990's... ...we have been continuing these... ...every year... ...and then... ...when she went home to... ...the Lord... ...I have... ...re-launched... ...these luncheons... ...in Pennsylvania... ...in 2005... ...2015... ...in her honor... ...memory... ...and... ...in tribute to her... ...but of course... ...first and foremost... ...as she would want it... ...in honor of Jesus Christ... ...our King... ...but if you... ...would like to attend... ...please... ...send me that email... ...to chrisarnson... ...at gmail .com... ...the luncheon again is on Friday... ...May 29th... ...11 a .m. to 2 p .m. ...if you are pessimistic... ...that this will occur... ...because of... ...the continued... ...hysteria going on... ...with the coronavirus... ...send me an email anyway... ...because this way... ...I'll have your... ...address on a list... ...uh... ...to let you know... ...what the date... ...to change... ...is... ...if indeed... ...there is... ...going to be one... ...but as far as we know now... ...it's still Friday... ...May 29th... ...11 a .m. to 2 p .m. ...finally folks... ...if you love this show... ...you don't want it to disappear... ...please... ...go to... ...ironsharpensironradio .com... ...click support... ...then click... ...click to donate now... ...you can donate instantly... ...with a debit or credit card... ...by doing so... ...and there's also... ...a mailing address... ...where you can... ...if you prefer that... ...that will appear on the screen... ...when you click support... ...at... ...ironsharpensironradio .com... ...and as I try to remember... ...to remind you... ...every single day... ...never... ...ever... ...siphon money away... ...from your regular giving... ...that you're accustomed to... ...to your local church... ...in order to give to... ...Iron Sharpens Iron Radio... ...never do that... ...never... ...put your family... ...in financial jeopardy... ...uh... ...by giving to... ...Iron Sharpens Iron Radio... ...either... ...because... ...those two things are... ...commands of scripture... ...providing for your church... ...and providing for your family... ...obviously... ...providing for my show... ...is not a command... ...of scripture... ...but... ...if you are financially blessed... ...above and beyond your ability... ...to obey those two commands... ...and... ...since... ...uh... ...you're not doing a lot of the things... ...you used to love to do... ...perhaps... ...every day or every week... ...or... ...a few times a month... ...uh... ...you're not going to... ...sporting events... ...you're not going to concerts... ...you're not going to the movies... ...you're not going to... ...theatrical performances... ...at playhouses... ...you're not having... ...uh... ...the luxury... ...of fine dining... ...well... ...can you use... ...please... ...some of that money... ...that you've been saving... ...to go to... ...Iron Sharpens Iron Radio... ...and again... ...I repeat... ...if you love the show... ...and you don't want it to go away... ...and if you don't love the show... ...I'm not sure why you're listening now... ...so... ...if you love the show... ...please help us... ...before we disappear... ...from the airways... ...chrisarnson... ...at gmail .com... ...is also... ...my email address... ...where... ...you can ask... ...any more questions... ...about that... ...but... ...my website again... ...is... ...ironsharpensironradio .com... ...click support... ...then click... ...click to donate now... ...and... ...last but not least... ...if you are not a member... ...of a local... ...bible-believing church... ...and you're... ...not even... ...prayerfully... ...looking for one... ...you are living... ...in rebellion... ...against God... ...there is no such thing... ...as a lone wolf... ...maverick... ...christian... ...roaming around... ...either... ...bouncing from church... ...to church... ...to church... ...without ever joining any of them... ...or... ...just... ...staying home... ...and not going to any church... ...these kinds of Christians... ...do not exist... ...in... ...the New Testament... ...at least... ...as a representative... ...of... ...Christians that are obedient to God... ...they don't... ...so... ...please... ...if you need help finding a church... ...no matter where you live on the planet Earth... ...I have lists... ...of biblically faithful churches... ...everywhere... ...on the planet... ...and I may be able to help you... ...find one... ...near you... ...I have helped many people... ...find churches... ...that they have visited... ...and some have joined those churches... ...and some of them have... ...visited them on vacation... ...and some of them have referred them to... ...family, friends and loved ones... ...without a church home... ...so please... ...if you need help finding a church... ...send me an email to... ...chrisarnson... ...at gmail .com... ...chrisarnson... ...at gmail .com... ...and put... ...I need a church... ...in the subject line... ...that is also... ...the email address... ...where you can send in a question... ...for Bill Shishko... ...that's... ...chrisarnson... ...at gmail .com... ...chrisarnson... ...at gmail .com... ...I forgot to mention also... ...that if you want to advertise with us... ...as long as... ...whatever it is you're promoting... ...is compatible with... ...what we believe... ...you don't have to believe... ...identically with me... ...but you need to be... ...promoting something... ...that's compatible... ...with... ...what I believe... ...then send me an email... ...chrisarnson... ...at gmail .com... ...and put advertising... ...in the subject line... ...and now we are back... ...with the second half...