F4F | Ron Carpenter Teaches Gnosticism

Gnosticism, the Body, and the Resurrection

Welcome to another installment of fighting for the faith. My name is Chris Roseboro. I'm your servant in Jesus Christ. This is the channel that compares what people are saying in the name of God to the Word of God.

Now, have you ever heard of the heresy known as Gnosticism? You probably have run into Gnosticism even if you've never heard the name Gnosticism actually spelled out before I'll explain it as we go. But basic premise is matter is evil.

Spirit good. The real you has nothing to do with your physical body. The real you is pure spirit, you know stuff like that. Yeah, that's Gnosticism and this impacts their Christology by the way, and this is the reason why Gnosticism historically has been considered a heresy because you know it is.

So case in point, we're going to be heading over to TD Jake's his church. Yeah. The Potter's house out there in Dallas and we're gonna listen to Ron Carpenter who we've actually demonstrated in the past.

He's openly admitted to being a Gnostic and teaching Gnosticism is a good thing. Yeah, it's in the archives of our fighting for the faith podcast. If you haven't seen those yet, actually, how can you see a podcast heard them heard them?

Yeah. Sorry senior moment. You know, it's just you know, I'm getting old. So anyway, we're gonna head over there and let's whirl this up and then get our desktop up. We'll do some debunking along the way because wow.

Does Ron Carpenter twist scripture here and this doesn't fall into the category by the way of like an error. This falls into the category of flat-out heresy. It's it arises above error, you know. Yeah, it really does.

So let's let's whirl that up and here's Ron Carpenter.

There is a difference between when you were created and when you were made.

Now that's not true and I'll show it to you from the Hebrew, but just let him spin this out. So there's a difference between when you were created and when you were made. That's weird. Because the Hebrew uses made and created interchangeably.

Yeah, it does in Genesis in one in particular, but we'll continue.

The word made means to take from one substance. Yeah, by the way, I forgot to tell you this.

I should have braced you for this. Yeah, the name the name of the sermon is the power of your sound.

Yeah, I'm not making that up and make into another substance.

All right got to back that up. So let me just back it up 10 seconds. Listen again it. And when you were made. Yeah.

The word made means to take from one substance and make into another substance.

What to take from one substance and make into another substance, you know, like when you make a house you're taking lumber and. You know drywall and nails and glue and you know and stucco and pipes and wires and thingies.

Does the wood turn into a different substance? No, it stays wood. Yeah, so he he's a playing fast and loose with some definitions. God made you a body.

He took from one thing and made it another thing. He took from the dust of the ground and he made. He formed Adam a body, but your body is not the real you. Your body just houses the real you. Your body is a temporary location while you fulfill an assignment in the earth.

That is straight-up false. That's yeah, that's not true at all. Yeah, your body is in a temporary Assign me a place for an assignment that you need to accomplish on the earth. Have you heard of the resurrection of the dead?

Yeah, when Jesus returns in glory, he's going to raise, you know everyone from the dead. Bodily the same way Jesus was raised, but let's do a little debunking work. Shall we we'll start in Genesis chapter 1 we will pay close attention to a particular verb.

In the first sentence of Scripture in the Hebrew it reads bara sheet bara Elohim eth ha shamayim v 'eth ha eretz and in just translated in the beginning God Created the heavens and the earth and the Hebrew verb for created is bara bara.

So you'll note that's our first Hebrew word for the day bara and you're gonna note that Genesis 1 Uses bara and a different Hebrew word the Hebrew word for made. Interchangeably. Yeah, so I have to scroll down here just a smudge and Look for the day when God created the cattle and the beasts of the earth and stuff like that.

So, let's see here. Alright, so Genesis 1 24 God said let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds. Livestock creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds and it was so and God made made made.

Okay, and so our Hebrew word here is a saw so God made a saw. He made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds the livestock according to their kinds. Everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind.

God saw that it was good. So two Hebrew word verbs so far and they are bara to create and a saw to make. Okay, so you got the idea here? Now we're gonna pay close attention to how the words work here in Genesis 1.

So then God said let us make man in our image. And if you were paying attention, you would know that the Hebrew verb here for make would be a saw right? So God said let us make man in our image after our likeness and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea.

Over the birds of the heaven over the livestock over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. So God created bara. God created man in his own image in the image of God. He created bara Them male and female he created them bara.

So no God says let us make and Let us create and make or just used interchangeably. Now the details then of how we came to be are quite important because what? What mr Yeah mr Carpenter's my apology senior moment there, but mr Ron Carpenter is saying here is also contradicted by scripture.

So listen to the Creation of man so when no bush of the field. This is Genesis 2. Was yet in the land no small plant of the field had yet sprung up for Yahweh Elohim had not caused it to rain on the land and there was no man to work the ground a mist was going up from The land that was watering the whole face of the ground then Yahweh Elohim.

And here's our third verb Yatsar. Yatsar. God formed the man of the dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and the man became a living creature and Jill note here That prior to his becoming a living creature He wasn't a living creature.

So here's the idea humanity human beings have a physical body and they have an Intelligent soul a soul that was put together. You know put into them by God himself and so human beings are you know are cut into two if you would body and soul to take the soul out of the body is to cause death and That does not mean that your soul is the real you while your body is something.

Well just dispensable. It's not the real you it's just your your earth suit. No, you are comprised of body and soul and Christ Physically bled and died on the cross to save not merely your soul. But also your body as well because the two go together to make the one person who is you there's not two of you.

There's only one of you. All right, there's not the body part of me and then the soul part of me. No, I am I am comprised of both a body and soul. So are you and there's only one of you there ain't two of you and your body is not the like the dispensable part.

And you would be you know, your soul being the real thing or whatever. Your body and soul together and when Jesus returns in glory to judge the living and dead he's gonna raise you from the grave. Bodily that Jesus himself was bodily raised from the grave.

This is important stuff. So we'll note here that the things that Ron Carpenter are saying here This is heresy. This puts him outside The Christian faith the things that he's saying here are. From Gnosticism, we'll talk about the dangers of Gnosticism more in a minute.

But let's return and hear a little bit more of him spinning this heresy out. Shall we?

Ephesians 2 and the New Birth

The Bible says that you were created in Christ Jesus before the foundations of the earth were ever laid.

The word G the word. Now I'm gonna note he's taking a particular text out of context and not going to Genesis 1. The text in particular that he's using is from Ephesians chapter 2. That says. For we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works.

Yeah, yeah, so we're created in Christ Jesus for good works and we're gonna note something here. The created in Christ Jesus for good works part is not referring to our Creation or our birth. It's talking about our new birth.

Uh-huh. Yeah, so that's kind of because note here what's going on here in in Ephesians effect. I sorry my apologies. I went a little too far. Ephesians chapter 2 verse 1 says. And you were dead in Trespasses in sins in which you once walked following the course of this world following the prince of the power of the air the spirit that is now at work in the in the Sons of disobedience among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh.

Carrying out the desires of the body in the mind we were by nature children of wrath like the rest of mankind. So you'll note that Ephesians 2 Begins with our state after the fall and this has to do with post creation.

This is as this post Genesis. This is actually this occurred the fall occurred in Genesis in Genesis chapter 3. And so, you know it as a result of it all of humanity then is born dead in trespasses and sins.

But watch how this continues. So but God being rich in mercy because of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead in our trespasses God made us alive together with Christ and By grace you have been saved and God raised us up with him and seated us up with him in heavenly places in Christ Jesus so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in Kindness towards us in Christ Jesus for by grace you have been saved through faith.

And this is not your own doing it is the gift of God. It is not the result of works so that no one may boast and then here we go for we are God's workmanship. We Christians created in Christ Jesus in Christ Jesus talking about our regeneration.

Created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand. That we should walk in them. So again, he's just at this point really. Striving to twist up the biblical text is the best way I can put it because he's trying to create this idea that you pre-existed the real you is.

Pre-existed pre-existed and and that and that the the important thing about you is your spirit in the body. Yeah, who cares about that? I mean, it's just your earth suit and stuff like that. The Bible don't teach that and the verses he's referencing don't teach that either.

Christ means anointing. The anointed one the now let me back this up so you can hear how his argument apparently goes and I'll back this up.

Ten seconds Christ Jesus before the foundations of the earth were ever laid the word the word.

Christ means anointing. The anointed one the anointing so now there's a difference between an anointing and the anointed one. One is a participle. You know a verbal noun the other is noun. Christ is the anointed one.

Jesus is the Christ. That's noun. Jesus isn't the anointing. That's a participle. All right, so that that's a verbal noun, but You can't say Jesus is both the anointed one and the anointing. Yeah, we got we got a big problem here so he's playing fast and loose and changing but and basically Interchanging a participle with a noun.

This is super slick Bible twisting on his part.

Let me back it up just a little bit again. Listen again for the foundations of the earth were ever laid the word. The word Christ means anointing the anointed one the anointing so I was created in the anointing.

No, you were not.

You were not created in the anointing. See see what he's doing here. So if we were created in Christ Jesus for good works, well, that means we were created in the anointing. No, it doesn't I mean so grammar really helps in discernment.

I'm just saying.

Before God ever said let there be light. The word created means to take from nothing. So the real you didn't show up when your mother and father biologically hooked up and conception took place. The real you was created in the anointing Sometime in heaven before God ever laid the foundations of the world.

No text says this in fact Genesis 1 and 2 explicitly rule this out.

This is Gnosticism mixed with Mormonism at this point. And what God did is he took the real you and then formed you a body. No. That's not true at all either and the real you is living inside this house.

This is not your real house. This is not who you really are some of us. We have a tall house a short house a big house a small house a black house a white house my wife's a brick house all kind of. Houses don't matter what kind of house you got.

You just got to understand. This is just a house tell your neighbor. This is just a house.

Just mm-hmm. Tell your neighbor that your body's just a house. No, it's not. Jesus Christ bled and died for that body and Jesus Christ is gonna raise that body from the dead.

Yes, sir. A the house difference between when you were created when you make. By the way, if I sound a little nasally. Battling a cold before I got here and when we were descending in the plane. There was a big pop in this ear and I can't hear a thing out of it.

So I'm believing before I. So he's got a broken house.

Okay, leave somebody gonna agree with me. This ear is gonna open back up. Amen. All right. So there's a there's a difference between when you were created and when you were made that no there isn't.

No, there is not now.

Hidden With Christ and Dead to Sin

Colossians 3 1 through 3. I'm a teacher. So let me let me roll this out. Says that you have died and your life is hidden with God in Christ.

Right. Yeah, so I've died and my life is hidden in God in Christ. Okay. Yes, I have. When did that take place? Oh, I know scripture is clear. When did we die? So, let me let me throw another text in here Which some of you may not even be familiar with at all.

We Christians are already dead and the Apostle Paul explains when that death took place in fact, it's quite important that we recognize this and embrace the concept and Here's what it says. What shall we say then?

Are we to continue in sin so that grace may abound? Well by no means how can we who died to sin? Still live in it. Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ? We were baptized into his death.

We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory Of the Father we too might walk in newness of life. So Romans 6 makes it clear that if you are a baptized believer in Jesus well, then you died and rose again with Christ already by the way this then becomes the The primary weapon then you use against the devil because you no longer Enslaved to sin because one who has died has been set free from sin.

So Colossians 3 then the text that he's using out of context and mangling here Says if then you have been raised with Christ again, I have yeah I'm baptized. Seek the things that are above where Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father set your minds on things that are above.

Not on the things of the earth for you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. This is most certainly true. But the way he's using it is not the way Paul is using it at all. The meanings are very different.

And again, I would remind you Ron Carpenter is is publicly on record as saying that he's Gnostic, so we continue.

Here again Christ means anointing. Let me tell you something about the anointing. His name is Jesus. No.

Christ does not mean anointing ha. Christos means the anointed one. Yeah, not the anointing. So yeah, you know, I sorry I had to correct this guy. But he's like, you know a heresy every you know, ten seconds at this rate.

We'll never get through this teaching, but we continue.

Christ. I don't want to insult your intelligence, but I don't want to assume anything. Jesus Christ. Christ is not his last name Christ is his function. He is Jesus the anointing Jesus the anointed one.

He is again. Those two concepts are not interchangeable.

He's not the anointing and the anointed one.

Jesus the man. Came died on the cross rose again. Jesus the man.

Jesus is the God man again. Note Gnosticism always causes you to go into a heretical Christology. Let me back this up just a smidge again. This is function.

He is Jesus the anointing Jesus the anointed one. Jesus the man came died on the cross rose again and then went and sat at the right hand of the Father and there He ever makes intercession for you and me.

The man Jesus came and he's back with the Father. Christ never left the earth.

What I? Told you this is heresy man. So Christ never left the earth. Christ the anointing so notice that he is making a distinction Between Christ and Jesus. That's exactly what the scriptures warn us about.

By the way, I would note that Gnosticism Really really got up and running During the life of the Apostle John he had to hit it head-on and the epistle of first John is Written against the Gnostics. So listen to what John says.

First John chapter 4 beloved do not believe every spirit. But test the spirits to see whether they are from God for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this, you know the Spirit of God.

Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is From God. Note Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. Every spirit that does not confess that Confess Jesus is not from God.

This is the Spirit of Antichrist, which you heard was coming and is now in the world already. Mm-hmm. So you're gonna note here Ron Carpenter is embracing the very theology that first John 4 Says is from the Antichrist.

Yeah, no, no joke there I mean and I'm not engaging in hyperbole either. This is for real Antichrist doctrine. Hear it again. I'll back this up just a smidge. Here we go.

At the right hand of the father and there he ever makes intercession for you and me. The man Jesus came and he's back with the father. Christ never left the earth.

Unbelievable. This is blasphemy. This is Antichrist blasphemy. That's what this is. Whoo, I'm. And there's the people at TD. Jake's is Potter house going. Yeah. He's sending all these people to hell going somewhere with this.

Yeah, you're going to go to the Lake of Fire. That's where you're going with this for those of you don't know me.

It seems like I'm gonna open up a bunch of random loose ends, but at the end will time all together. I promise you okay. Christ never left the earth. He just waited in the earth for another body to descend upon.

So note he makes a distinction between Jesus and the Christ. Again that's exactly what first John 4 says is this is the doctrine of Antichrist.

And so in the upper room he found the body the new body of Christ. And then he descended upon that new body and now we make up the body of Christ. We make up the body of the anointing. Come on somebody.

No, this is absolute.

Antichrist blasphemy that you're spewing here. I'm not a full expression of the anointing. You're not a full expression of I'm not an expression of The anointing the anointing. But God gives us Apostles prophets and bachelors pastors evangelist teachers.

Until we all reach the full stature of the measure of Christ. So God gives us leaders till we all come into unity in the faith. And I may not be like Christ all by myself. But when I hook up with you and you and you and you and you then we begin to be the full expression of the body of the anointing.

Somebody shot. Wow.

Wow, wow. Again, I don't even have words at this point. Blasphemy heresy. This is flat-out rebellion against God. This doctrine comes from the pit of hell the Apostle John.

Tells us that God I'm anointed now. The Bible says my life is hidden with Christ.

My life is hidden with God in the anointing. No, it doesn't say that you're playing word games everything.

About me my past my present my future is in my anointing. The anointing is the word that is descriptive of the residency of the Holy Ghost. No, it's not you're just making this up. Everything that I will ever be is already in me.

So God doing something my life is not it coming out the air-conditioning vent and coming externally and entering my life. It's already in me and I've got to learn how to push it out.

No biblical text says this either.

Everything that you will ever do and ever be is already on the inside of you. Touch your neighbor say it's already in there.

It's already in there. So no, it's not and I'm not gonna touch my neighbor either.

I've got to learn how do I grab a hold of the potential that is resting inside of my anointing and then live up to The potential of my anointing. Then in the next verse he says. Therefore set your mind on things above where Christ is.

So in other words, I've got to get where's Christ by the way note that the text that he's quoting Totally contradicts him. Okay, cuz remember he said that the anointing never left but that Jesus the man Sits at the right hand of the Father, right?

Let's see. Yeah, so this is just unbelievable. Let's see if he quoted this correctly. Yeah, your life is hidden with Christ when Christ who is your life appears? Then you will also appear with him in glory.

So set your minds and things are above. Yeah, for that's where Christ is. Yeah, so I mean the text that he's quoting just flat-out contradicts him.

Wow. Take my anointing where my whole potential is and then set my mind on things above where the anointing is.

It's not a matter of. Are you annoyed if the. You said the anointing never left the earth and you just now said it's. It's in heaven where the anointing is. You're contradicting yourself in your false doctrine.

I did it's. Can you think on the level of your anointing when you can get your mind in the same place with your what? If you're anointed to be wealthy, but you think like a pauper. What if you're anointed to be great?

But you think like a weakling. What if you are anointed to be successful, but you think like a failure. We do not arrive at the place of our anointing. We arrive at the place of our thoughts because as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he?

Proverbs 23 and the Misuse of “As a Man Thinketh”

Yeah, so he's.

Kind of mixed Gnosticism now with one of the major Proof texts out of context of the word of faith heresy as a man thinketh in his so is he. So are you think of? Thinking think a thing. Are you think a thing correctly, you know so that you can are you think a thing like you're poor when?

Your your potential is to be rich. Yeah, I know. That's not really how the words work, but let me show you this from the text. We're gonna be over in Proverbs Proverbs 23. Proverbs 23 and here's the King James version of it because this is how they take it out of Context and it's Proverbs 23 7 for as he thinketh in his heart, so is he.

See there it is. See it's you got to think right you don't want to be engaging in stinking thinking. No, that's not what's going on here. So here's what it is three rules by the way for sound biblical exegesis are context context and Context.

So eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye neither desire thou his dainty meats. For as he thinketh in his heart so is he eat and drink saith he to thee. But his heart is not with thee. With the morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up and lose thy sweet words.

And he's sitting there going. Okay, that's not saying that our thoughts create reality. No, it's not at all. In fact, let's go with the ESV translation and let me get this a little bit bigger. And here's what it says in the ease ESV.

Do not eat the bread of a man who is stingy. Do not desire his delicacy for he is like one who is inwardly Calculating eat and drink he says to you. But his heart is not with you. You will vomit up the morsels that you have eaten and waste your pleasant words.

See this is a proverb about if you know somebody who's really stingy if They're they seem like they're being generous and say here eat this. They don't really want you to eat it because it costs money, you know.

So, you know his heart's not with you. That's the point here. So, you know that Ron Carpenter here. As you as a man thinketh in his heart so is he so yeah. No, that's not what that text says at all. This guy's wrong on every count.

He hasn't said anything. That's biblically solid at all.

Mmm, my thinking defines my is and if I'm gonna show up where my anointing is I'm gonna have to learn to think on the level of my anointing somebody that's gonna take your thinking higher today. Shout.

Hallelujah.

Yeah, I'm not gonna shout hallelujah I'm gonna shout run flee the building. This guy's a flat-out heretic. He's a Gnostic everything that he is teaching here is flat-out false and he's gonna have to give an accounting to God for this.

Yeah, let me throw this in. It's like a bonus. Shall I so if we were to go to Let's say the the book of Job. All right, then we'll go to the Job and let's see here the text in particular I want to go to is at the end at the end where where God and Job have a conversation God talks to Job out of the whirlwind and Job ends up repenting because Job Basically claimed that God was in the wrong to punish him because it's the evildoers the unrighteous.

Who are punished not the righteous and he considered himself to be among the righteous. Yeah, that's not true at all. In fact, there's none righteous. No, not one the scripture says and so God had to have a little conversation with him and Job Repents.

Job repents, but remember Job's three comforters. Yeah, those guys. They they are their theology was completely wackerdoodle. They totally said false things about God and I want you to consider God's reaction to them and.

But we'll start with Job's repentance. So after Job was confronted by God. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? You know all that that that great dialogue that discourse you can read in the chapters that precede chapter 42.

So Job will repent he says I know that you can do all things that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. So who is this that hides counsel without knowledge? Therefore I've uttered what I did not understand things that are too wonderful for me, which I did not know.

So here and I will speak and I will question you and you make it known to me. I have heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you therefore I despise myself and I repent in dust and ashes so Job ended up having to repent because he Found fault with God and not rightly so he didn't know what he was talking about.

So he repented God. You're right. I'm wrong now consider what follows next is what God says in judgment with Job's three comforters whose Theology was completely wack. I mean one guy was like a Joel Osteen Prosperity guy another guy was like a complete self righteous pietist and another guy was kind of like some weird Gnostic weird Morphine anyway, all their theology was whack and the things they said about God were way off the mark and watch God's reaction to them.

So after Yahweh had spoken these words to Job Yahweh said to Eliphaz the Temanite My anger burns against you and against your two friends for you have not spoken of me. What is right as my servant Job has so note here God's anger burned hot against Job's three comforters.

Because they didn't speak correctly about God at all. Mm-hmm. So that being the case I what you all the false teachers out there. You might want to pay attention to this Ron Carpenter. You might want to pay attention this God's anger burns hot against those who take his name in vain and do not teach The truth about him.

So now therefore take seven bulls seven rams go to my servant Job and offer up a burnt Offering yourselves and my servant Job he'll pray for you now. No God isn't gonna listen to their prayers. He'll listen to Job's but not theirs.

He will own. God will only deal with them through a mediator. So my servant Job shall he shall pray for you. I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly for you have not spoken of me what is right as my servant Job has so Eliphaz the Temanite build at the shoe height and So far the Nehemiah site went and did what the Lord told them and the Lord accepted Job's prayer.

Yes. Yeah, the job prayed that God would not deal with them according to their folly. I think we need to pray the same then for Ron Carpenter that he would repent and Recognize that God's anger is burning hot against him because what he is teaching Regarding God isn't right at all the things he's putting forward and spewing and people are applauding.

These are doctrines of demons and the Apostle John identifies his Christology as Being from the Antichrist. That's how serious this is. So pray that they would repent and pray if you know anybody who's believe it listens to Ron Carpenter and is believe in this theology Of this man that you need to rescue them from the pitman because they're on their way to hell.

This is not a this is not a small error that he teaches. This is flat-out rank Heresy it is the Gnostic heresy on steroids in the flesh pun intended. You know in in the 21st century and it's as deadly today as it was in the first century when the Apostle John Penned first John which was written against the Gnostics keep that in mind.

Job, False Teachers, and the Need for Repentance

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So until next time may God richly bless you in the grace and mercy won by Jesus Christ. And it's vicarious death on the cross for all of your sins. Amen.