June 8, 2023 Show with Chris Durkin on “Did God Really Say? The Root of All False Teaching”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father

James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister

George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensirenradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this eighth day of June, 2023.

I'm thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest, Chris Durkin.

He is pastor of Colts Neck Community Church in Colts Neck, New Jersey, and a blogger, and we are going to be addressing the theme,

Did God Really Say the Root of All False Teaching? And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back on the program,

Chris Durkin. Chris, it is an honor and a joy to be with you, and I can't wait to study

God's Word with you and all of your listeners. Amen. And I'm so glad that Pete Hegseth had very enthusiastically urged me to invite you on the program.

And for those of our listeners who have not yet heard my first interview with Pastor Chris Durkin, the date is going to be coming up here on my screen any second.

But when I was at a fundraising banquet for Grace Christian Academy in Merrick, Long Island, New York, where Pete Hegseth of Fox News was the keynote speaker and I was the master of sitting at our table eating dinner, he strongly,

Pete strongly urged me to invite his former pastor before he moved from New Jersey to Nashville, Tennessee, Chris Durkin.

He urged me to invite Chris on the program because he did such a, not only did he do a masterful job as his pastor, but he also did a masterful job on a

Fox Nation special on the life of Jesus Christ. And that interview, that first interview, if you want to listen to it, at some point after this live show, took place on March 28th.

And you could just type in Durkin in the search engine at ironsherpensironradio .com.

And that's D -U -R -K -I -N. And so glad that he made that recommendation because I know that I want to have

Chris on the program often. And why don't you tell our listeners about Colts Neck Community Church in Colts Neck, New Jersey.

Absolutely. So we are a Southern Baptist church. Most of the people that gather here claim

Christ as Lord, the gospel as central, the word of God as authoritative, inspired, infallible, inerrant.

We're a community of people that have been changed by the perfect grace of Jesus Christ, Chris. So it's a joy and a true, genuine honor to love and to serve this congregation.

Jersey's not necessarily the buckle on the Bible belt. So there's plenty of work to be done. And right now we're covered in smoke from Canada.

So, you know, not only is the spiritual soil hard, but even now it's hard to see how the

Lord is at work. But we know as the prophet Isaiah said, his word never returns void.

It's accomplishing exactly the purpose for which he sent it out. And that's why I'm excited to study the Bible with you today. Amen. And by the way, if anybody would like to investigate more about Colts Neck Community Church in Colts Neck, New Jersey, you can go to coltsneckchurch .com,

coltsneckchurch .com. By the way, do you actually see the smoke? Because we've got a poor air advisory here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, but I don't actually see smoke.

I do detect a faint odor, but I don't know if that is psychosomatic because I heard this news.

But did you actually see smoke where you are? It was quite the experience, Chris. Yes, today is much better.

So we're hoping that the wind is carrying out to the ocean. But yesterday it was so thick that not only could you see it outside, but you can literally see it in the building.

So we had 100 people gathered to study the book of Revelation last night. And it was quite the experience, not only to see a blood red, not moon, but sun.

And then also to see that thickness, that thickness fill the fellowship hall, even as it was filling

New York City. So absolutely, you could see it. It was quite the phenomenon. Wow. That's something.

I'm glad that we didn't get it that bad over here, or at least yet. Maybe we will get an increase of that over here.

By the way, just to note, just because of the fact that he is a world -renowned figure, and the name is going to be immediately recognizable to most people in our audience, not that this program reflects the teaching and theology of this individual, other than perhaps the very bare minimum of the

Christian faith. But Pat Robertson died today at 93, the founder of the 700

Club and the Christian Broadcasting Network. I had very, very serious problems with much of Pat Robertson's theology and practice.

But I can say that in spite of all of that, there were on occasion on his program, the 700

Club, some world -renowned and even not so well -known

Christian figures with whom I shared much agreement over theology and practice.

He did on occasion have theologically reformed folk on there. He had Francis Schaeffer on there in the early 80s, and quite a number of others.

So I just thought I'd make note of the fact of his passing at 93, and we should all be saying a word of prayer for his surviving family, and that perhaps the ministry that he leaves behind will be drawn into solid biblical truth, and will eventually abandon all the aberrant things that they have been known for.

But speaking of those aberrant things, did God really say our theme today, the root of all false teaching?

This is a well -known quote from the serpent in the Garden of Eden when he was seducing

Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. But if you could pick up why it is that you wanted to address this specific theme today.

Well, I think it is such an insight, not only to the truthfulness of God's breathed word, but also, as our

Lord said, this serpent, this accuser, this liar is not just a liar.

He's the father of all liars, and Jesus himself said in the Gospel of John, he was a murderer from the beginning.

So, it's so helpful for our people here, Chris, in our church to see these things in Scripture, but then as they apply

Scripture to their lives, to their worldview, to understand

Satan's first recorded words were to lead our first parents,

Adam and Eve, to doubt God's word. Everything tends to crystallize as far as the deception that we see in our world today.

So, what does it mean for us to not only behold the attempts of Satan to tempt

Jesus in the wilderness in the Gospels, but even at the beginning of the Bible, even in the

Garden of God, the Garden of Eden, we have this serpent and his first recorded words in Scripture in all of history is to lead us to doubt

God's word. So many, if not all, of the issues that we are currently facing, Chris, many of the different challenges the church is facing, come down to that simple question.

It's not just a revelation of God's word, it's also his breathed out word, which the

Bible connects to his character. It's, yes, about the trustworthiness of the word, the truthfulness of the word, the authority of the word, but the

Bible doesn't give us an option to believe in the Bible or not believe in the

Bible, because in the end, to believe in God, we must believe in his word.

And that's why so much of the deception around us, whether it be the Garden of Eden or now even

New Jersey, the Garden State is aimed to lead us away from the truth of God's word.

Amen. And one of the greatest difficulties of protecting the flock in the third millennium and trying to maintain pure biblical teaching and theology as much as sinners on the planet

Earth can do, one of the things that we face is a rampantly expanding and growing ecumenical movement that will say that just because of the fact that there are teachers out there and individuals who say basic Christian truth at times, we are supposed to latch on to them and link arms with them and identify them as brothers and sisters.

And this can be a very dangerous thing because, as we have just heard,

Satan doesn't always speak lies, but he turns the truth into a lie when he only gives half of the truth.

And he selectively quotes from God's own word and so forth.

An example would be years ago when

I was running an annual debate on Long Island.

This occurred for over a decade, actually occurred for a decade. They were called the

Great Debates. And Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, who is a Reformed Baptist apologist, would come out to Long Island to debate

Roman Catholics that I had found and gotten to agree to participate in these debates.

And one of my friends out on Long Island, I believe he still lives there, Frank Russo is his name.

At the time, he was the New York director for the

American Family Association. And when I was having a conversation during a break at one of the debates,

Frank said that he knew that his Roman Catholic faith was the true faith because of the visions of Mary, especially at Fatima.

And he said, I know that that was truly the

Blessed Mother because she was telling us to obey and follow

Jesus. So the devil would never masquerade as an angel of light as you're accusing this manifestation of being by saying that we should follow

Jesus. And as I remember saying to Frank, something like, well, if you think

Satan is going to be appearing to you as a snarling, fanged beast with saliva and blood pouring out of every orifice of his face, speaking only evil and telling you to worship

Satan and things like that, you're sadly mistaken because he does tell people to follow

Jesus, but obviously in a way that will wind up in some twisted fashion to be a charge to disobey him.

But if you could pick up where I left off there. Yeah, man, Chris, I like how John MacArthur put it.

Great quote. He said Satan is most effective in the church when he comes out, not as an open enemy, but as a false friend.

Not when he persecutes the church, but when he Satan joins the church, not when he attacks the pulpit, but when he stands in it.

What a powerful quote. Wow. You're right. I'm going to give our listeners our email address if they would like to join in on the conversation with a question of their own for Pastor Chris Durkin.

The email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And perhaps it's that you are becoming increasingly uncomfortable with something that you are hearing preached and taught from the pulpit of your own church, and you don't want to identify yourself in your questioning those teachings during the program today.

Or perhaps you're the pastor and you're becoming increasingly uncomfortable with things that are rising up in your own congregation, perhaps even among your own fellow elders, and you're not ready to identify yourself.

We understand that those would be valid reasons to remain anonymous. But if it's a general question, please give us your first name, at least your city and state and your country of residence.

Well, in the realm of defending the flock, something that is a part, a very crucial part of your calling as a minister.

And it's not exclusively a calling of ministers, but it's very much so, especially a calling of a shepherd or an under shepherd of a flock.

What would be some of the primary ways today where you have to be very bold and honest, even if it means hurting some of your congregation's feelings?

Perhaps they've become enamored with a specific teacher and a certain book, and it seemed to have everything full in the right place in their mind.

And it seems to have in some way, real or imagined, benefited their understanding of Scripture, their walk with Christ, their effectiveness in evangelism.

Can you list anything like that that you have been personally experienced that you have to be an alarm, a clarion call for people to turn away from specific people or movements or books or what have you?

Yeah, thank you, Chris. And I think it's good. We could continue to understand these questions in light of the revelation of Genesis.

I think it's very, very interesting when we turn back to Genesis 3, like you said, the

Bible does describe this serpent sometimes as a snake. And then also at the end of your

Bible, like a dragon, Peter describes him as a ravenous lion. So when that snake creeps into the garden, and of course, that serpent, who in the end, of course, is

Satan himself, Satan is speaking through the serpent. This was just moments after,

Chris. A lot of Christians forget this. This was just moments after Adam literally named all the animals, including that serpent.

And of course, this is just two chapters after the Bible declares that God made man in his image.

And God gave man dominion over all things, including, quote, everything that creeps on the earth.

So when that creeping thing came, that thing that Adam just named a serpent or a snake came into the garden, he had not yet, if I could put it this way, led or shepherded his wife.

Now, she was deceived. That's what the Bible says in 1 Timothy 2. And at the same time, we can see in Genesis 3 that he was there and said nothing.

So one of the things that I try to do as we shepherd this flock is to help men see that we have this temptation in us when deception comes and knocks at our door.

Now, people will condescend to Genesis. They'll say, well, how can you tell me a story about a speaking snake is real?

And I'll tell them, listen, you have something mounted on your wall. That's a square of plastic, metal and glass.

And it is speaking out lies all the time. Right. God speaks through these little cell phones and our smart

TVs. So who are we to condescend to the revelation of God's word as Satan intentionally chooses a snake intentionally chooses a snake?

Because in the end, when Adam and Eve and they were so prone and so quick to believe the enemy's lies, when they did give in to the deception and the temptation, then their dominion over the serpent now was flipped.

And it's what Ephesians 2 tells us, right? We're not just dead in our sin. We were once following the prince of the power of the ruler of the air.

So in the end, these are all intentional, not only revelation revelations into God's word, also intentional insights into our enemies, ploys and plans.

But also we see how today we are called as Christians, those who have been saved by the one who crushed the head of that serpent on the cross, who, yes, will one day throw that dragon into the lake of fire, that we are called to guard our churches, our homes, our marriages and our children and speak up where our first father,

Adam, did not. Don't you think that one of the reasons that what you just said, that the charge that you just gave is difficult, is that all too often, even on occasion, the most seasoned of Christians can at least for a moment, if not as a regular mark of their lives, which the latter would be surely a tragedy.

But there are occasions when even the best of Christians are more concerned over the feelings of people that they are speaking with, especially if they are friends, loved ones, someone with whom they have some kind of a relationship that they don't want disrupted or crushed.

They are not thinking right. They have tunnel vision.

They have too much of an emphasis on the here and now, and they will delicately tiptoe around things that could very mean the eternal destiny of the person with whom they are speaking just to spare their feelings.

This is something that Christians really have to overcome, and if we follow Jesus Christ as a model, he certainly did not do that.

Jesus was always good, but he was not always nice. Amen. Yeah, they didn't crucify

Jesus, Chris, because of the miracles. They didn't crucify Jesus because he healed lepers. They didn't crucify

Christ. Obviously, this all happened according to God's sovereign will and plan, but they didn't crucify Christ because he said, let the little children come on to me.

They crucify Christ because not only of the claims that he made, but the ways that he made it.

And if you read certain accounts like Matthew chapter 23, the woes that Jesus declares upon those religious leaders, yes, that is judgment.

That is the righteous judge, the Messiah, judging the false shepherds of God's people.

But also, it's a call. It's a call to repentance. I always think of 1

Corinthians 13, Chris, which is read at many weddings. And in that passage, we do see that love is patient, love is kind, love keeps no record of wrongs.

And at the same time, love does not rejoice with evil or wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.

So the motivation should be a repentance -focused love.

That even if they don't hear it and repent in the moment, and even if they don't receive it well or reciprocate, might even reject it and flat out reject you.

The most loving thing to do is to share God's word and take your own ego, take my ego, and this is hard,

Chris, we all feel this, out of the equation. Make it about the glory of Christ and the reality of our loved ones on a path to everlasting torment and hell.

Amen. And it's obvious from even the passage of Scripture that we are addressing today as the focal point from where the majority of our conversation springs.

The word of God is pure truth. It is the only word that we have inscripturated, written down, that is

God -breathed. There is no other authority for the church in our present day.

We are not living in a day as the Christians were in the first century where the canon wasn't complete and there was ongoing inspiration.

There was ongoing extra -biblical revelation. But now we have the canon.

We have a completed Scripture. There is no other God -breathed authority. But because of the fact that the devil is so clever and he does use

Scripture at times, we have to make sure, do we not, that we are familiar with the whole counsel of God.

Not that we just have several verses here and there memorized.

We have to be fully aware as much as humanly possible of the whole counsel of God, which is why we need teachers.

We need to be involved in regular Bible reading and Bible study and not relying upon our own brilliance to determine truth.

The Roman Catholic Church is very fond of making a caricature out of sola scriptura as if we are saying that we should be free to go off into the woods with a

Bible alone and determine what truth is. Now, I know that there are evangelicals who say things like that, but they're speaking in ignorance because the

Scriptures themselves don't say that. But isn't it, at the core of what we are discussing today, a charge to Christians that they have to become familiar with the whole counsel of God?

Well said, Chris. Yeah, I mean, we have to be humble. We have to be humble and remember that deception is deceiving for a reason.

That the enemy didn't show up as a fire -breathing dragon in the garden. And when he shows up in our homes, it's not like he knocks on the door and shows up like a fire -breathing twisted son of hell.

No, oftentimes it's deceiving for a reason. Temptation is tempting for a reason. The enemy knows how to bait the hook.

And what's fascinating is, and there is a parallel, of course, here. So we have our first father,

Adam, failing. As we all have. As we are all not only sinners carrying the nature of Adam, but we are also those who continue to sin by choice and nature.

Then you come to Christ. Then you come to the Gospels. And like you said, Chris, I mean, most Christians know that when

Jesus was tempted in the wilderness by none other than Satan himself, all he did was quote

Scripture. But not many Christians know that that's what Satan was doing as well. Satan was literally twisting

Scripture and quoting Scripture to the Son of God in hopes that the

Son of God might be deceived. And I'm sure that serpent, that accuser, that liar is the most deceived.

But that's what we should be mindful of. We should be mindful of anyone that twists

Scripture. Any addition to Scripture is actually subtraction. Whether it's the warning in the book of Revelation, anyone that adds this prophecy, the plagues of this prophecy will be added unto them.

Or it's just the simple realization that God has placed teachers, elders in their lives.

We cannot face the world, the flesh, and the devil by ourselves. We got to get plugged into a Bible -believing, faithful church.

Iron sharpens iron, Chris. I've heard that before. We need each other so that if someone starts to believe something erroneous, not only pastors but other faithful brothers, sisters in Christ can shed light on the whole counsel of God.

So hopefully that deception doesn't take root. We have to go to our first commercial break.

If you have a question for Chris Durkin of your own, our e -mail address again is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. Don't go away.

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We're now back with our guest today, Pastor Chris Durkin of Colts Neck Community Church, Colts Neck, New Jersey.

We are discussing, Did God Really Say? The Root of All False Teaching. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who has a question. Isn't it true that it's not just the pulpits of false preachers and evangelists where the scripture is twisted, and where there are only half -truths given, just as Satan did in the garden?

Isn't it true that from many, if not most, of the left -wing political podiums where speeches are given, where platforms are laid out, there is often an expression of some kind of allegiance or fidelity to Jesus Christ as their example of being the ones who are really looking out for the downtrodden and the less fortunate and the persecuted, and using such texts as Acts 2, verses 44 through 46, as a blueprint for socialism, where we read,

And all believers were together and had all things in common, and they would sell their property and possessions and share them with all to the extent that anyone had need.

Isn't this another arena where your listeners need to be very careful that they are not buying the lie of Satan when it comes to the quotations of scripture and biblical truths being twisted?

Are you there, Chris? Yes, yes, amen. And I think that's absolutely the case, and I think to understand, like 1

John 4 says, anyone or anything that does not believe or confess that Jesus has come in the flesh is not just a matter of disbelief or doubt, but behind that is also the spirit of the

Antichrist. So it is remarkable, Chris, in our day and age today that almost every elected official, whether it's local townships or it is the highest peak of federal power, they have to put their hand on that Bible and swear.

It's also fascinating how at, for them, opportune moments, they will evoke faith.

So this is why I think it needs to be important, not only that we know the whole counsel of God, but that we also understand the lordship of Christ.

Yes, there will be a direct connection. If we have a low view of God's word, we will have a low view of the lordship of Christ.

So, for example, let's take that example in Acts 2. I have heard that said.

I went to a social justice college outside of Philadelphia, and there were so many times where a chapter would be pulled out of context to justify some kind of social justice, social gospel.

So using Acts 2 as the example and understanding it not only through the lens of the whole counsel of God, but then the lordship of Christ, how could that support socialism or communism?

Because in the end, socialism and communism, Jesus is not

Lord, but government is God. The motivation in Acts 2 was love.

It was the glory of God. It was the resurrection of his son. It was love for brothers and sisters.

It was not Caesar forcing the church to give up their money out of fear of retribution, persecution, taxation, whatever it may be.

And yet if people don't know, A, the word of God, but then, B, truly surrendering to the lordship of God's son, then it gets twisted because it's not hard to read that and see this is not

Caesar forcing them to take care of each other. This is the Lord Jesus leading them out of obedience and love to give up their possessions so no one in that community would have a need.

Amen. And those of you who are familiar with the documentarian Michael Moore, who is on the far left, he very often speaks as if he is gleaning his political views from Christian teaching.

And he is a very clever twister of the Bible. I believe

I've even heard him use the very text that Susan Margaret quoted. And, of course,

Nancy Pelosi was routinely doing that when she was in the limelight of the political arena and so on.

It's amazing how many evangelicals seem to have bought into that lie that the political left are the ones who are following more closely a credo and behavior of Christ than those who are conservative.

And they seem to put on a lower rung of importance even those that have problems with abortion who suspect it is murder.

They seem to think that that is not such an important issue when it compares to the welfare programs and other things that they want to see remain in existence.

So it is quite a tragedy. Obviously, none of these leftists who have been elected into office could ever have been elected without the votes of evangelical

Christians. So they're out there amazingly casting their votes for these servants of Satan.

So thank you very much, Susan Margaret. We have Seth in Hummelstown, Pennsylvania.

Pastor Durkin, do you think there was a reason the woman was deceived first and then the man and not vice versa, vice versa?

Well, the man actually wasn't deceived. It was the woman that was deceived. And you would think that would make the man less qualified for leadership because he knowingly disobeyed

God. But if you could give your own thoughts on this interesting fact from the

Bible. Amen. Yeah, I think we want to allow the Bible to be the interpreter of the

Bible, Chris. The best interpreter of the Bible is the Bible. So ultimately, the Lord's given us teachers.

The Lord's given us elders, pastors. But ultimately, we see Genesis, not just through the lens of Genesis and not just the

Old Testament through the lens of the Old Testament. But we also see it through the lens of the New Covenant and the

New Testament. And that's why you've turned to First Timothy Chapter two. It says exactly what you just said, that the woman was deceived and that man was not.

Now, here's here's the interesting part. So she was deceived. But this also speaks to the nature of Adam's sin, because clearly throughout the entire

Bible, the onus is placed. Yes, deception on Eve, but onus.

Either we are in Adam or we're in Christ. That's how Romans five describes it throughout the entire

Bible. Even after the fall, God called out to Adam and said,

Adam, where are you? So if we understand that through the lens of First Timothy two, the woman was deceived.

Adam was not meaning Chris. Adam knew full well what was going on. Remember, the commandment was given to him in Genesis two.

And that means he perhaps just went along with it, either out of fear for his wife or as some kind of misplaced.

Deception, who knows, but he knew full well what's happening and went along with it anyway. And tragically, that happens in so many marriages, so many families.

And yes, so many churches where faithful brothers are free to speak up lovingly, but firmly to some of the ladies in the church that perhaps are getting caught up in some kind of deception.

Of course, men can be deceived, are often deceived. But when we understand it through the lens of First Timothy two,

Adam understood and he sinned. And then as soon as that happened, God called out to not

Adam and Eve. He said, where are you, Adam? And don't you believe or perhaps you don't agree with me here?

I think that sometimes when we read these texts. There is a mystery behind them that we just have to say,

I believe it because it's God's word. For instance, Paul, when he is forbidding women to have leadership and authority over men and to have roles of a teacher of men in the church.

He goes back to Genesis as the reason he does not talk about the current trends of society or anything like that, that that liberals and feminists constantly allude to as their explanation.

But he goes to Genesis, but he doesn't really fully explain that the reason why women cannot be leaders in the church.

He doesn't explain it other than the fact that the woman was deceived first. And we have to be careful about not speaking and teaching and preaching as dogma, things that we might try to pull out of that or is a

G into it. You know, like you were just saying, you know, men can be deceived, too.

I mean, we have to be very careful not to say, see, this is teaching us that women are by nature more gullible than men.

No, you can't. There are wives who are far less gullible than men. In fact, sometimes

I don't know how much stock to put into this, but sometimes the thing that has been called a woman's intuition.

I've seen it been proven to be true with certain women anyway, many times where they have some kind of an insight into some situation or person that the husband is clueless about.

And it turns out the woman was right. So we just have to take the word of God for what it says.

And Paul seems to be intentionally vague about this other than some specific rock bottom facts.

Am I making sense here? Yeah, and I think returning back to Genesis, there's plenty of insight here, right?

So what do we see? We see both. We see in Genesis chapter two that God created

Adam or God created Eve from Adam's rib from his side. And then she was created not only from his rib and you could almost make this connection.

What does the rib do? It protects his eternal organs. But more specifically and explicitly, she is a helper given unto him.

And we are so grateful for our godly wives, Chris. And I know you give glory to God for your wife, even as she is with the

Lord. Now, we are so grateful for these women and they are helpers. And that's that's nothing derogatory.

That Hebrew word for helper there in Genesis chapter two is the exact Hebrew word that God uses for himself.

He helps his people. He helps his beloved. So amen, that thank

God for our wives. Thank God for my wife. She helps me see things

I don't see. She is a blessing from God. And at the same time in Genesis two, the command was given to Adam.

It was. It was. So Doug Wilson says this very interesting enough. And it's not just he's not the only one that says it.

But even as both Adam and Eve were guilty, Adam was held responsible.

So the commandment was given to Adam. The rest of the Bible talks about how we should be the head of the family, right?

The head of the wife. This is God's good plan. Sin twists, contaminates, makes what is clear not only unclear, but through sin, makes it chaos.

But God's good plan in the garden was for the man to have the command to tell his wife and his wife to be his helper given by God himself.

Amen. Amen. Well, thank you, Seth. We have an anonymous listener.

And the anonymous listener says, I at times believe that the man who is the pastor of the church that I am attending is doing the very thing that you are warning about the twisting of Scripture, perhaps not in such grotesque ways as rank heretics do, but in more subtle ways.

And I was wondering how an individual in a church who is not an elder or a deacon goes about making this concern known.

Well, they have to, don't they have to first go privately to the elder that they are speaking about?

The one who they believe is twisting the Scripture? Because this person who is writing, I don't mean to offend this person who's writing, but the person who's writing may be misunderstanding the

Scriptures. You know, we don't know who this person is. But you may find yourself discovering either that the pastor is correct or the pastor may, by God's grace and mercy, be given new insight into what he is saying.

And perhaps he would repent of that and change his direction. But anyway, what would you have to say about this, especially since you are a pastor,

Chris? Yeah, it's a great question, and it can be a sanctifying gift from God. When the congregation comes humbly and says, you know,

Pastor or Chris, what did you mean by this? What about this verse? How do you understand this in light of this?

So that can be a sanctifying gift for any shepherd to hear from the flock.

But if it is outright unbiblical teaching, then

I think there are certain steps. And the one you just mentioned, Chris, is the one that Jesus gave us.

He gave us the very plan for this in Matthew 18. So before we see the pastor as a pastor, and he is the overseer and shepherd, at least of that local community, under Christ, go talk to him.

And if he doesn't listen, bring somebody else in. And then that's why a little congregationalism is helpful.

It is helpful to say, okay, let's have a churchwide discussion. Now, here's what I would say.

I think, Chris, I think we are in a day and a time where we are so tired of being lied to.

I think we are so heightened in our discernment that we can fall into one of two traps.

The first one is to not know God's word and not know clear, blatant, false teaching.

The other one is to think a heretic dwells under every single rock. In fact, can you pick up right where you left off?

We have to go to our midway break right now. And just let's not forget where you left off there. Please be patient with us, folks.

This is the break that's a bit longer than the others because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, is required by the

FCC to localize this program geographically to Lake City, Florida. And they do so with their own public service announcements, while we, on the other hand, simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

So please be patient with us. Write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can, provided by our advertisers, so that you can more frequently and successfully contact our advertisers, which will further ensure that they will keep renewing their contracts, which we need to remain on the air.

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia, again, for the

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Before I return to Chris Durkin, our guest today, I have a couple of very important announcements to make.

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I want you to remember that I want you to mark September 15th, 16th, and 17th on your calendars.

That's a Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I'm arranging a three -day event with Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries that will likely take place in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

And this will be a conference and possibly might include a debate. We're not sure about the debate yet, but I am trying to arrange one.

So mark those dates on your calendars, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, September 15th, 16th, and 17th for Dr.

James R. White in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Finally, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, and doctrinally solid church like Colts Neck Community Church in Colts Neck, New Jersey, well, wherever you live in the world,

I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches, and I may be able to help you find a church.

Sometimes, as I've done with many people in our audience all over the world, I may be able to help you find some place that's just within minutes from where you live.

So if you are in that condition, you are not a member of a biblically faithful church home, send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you could send in a question to Chris Turkin, pastor of Colts Neck Community Church in Colts Neck, New Jersey, on our theme, did

God really say the root of all teaching? The root of all false teaching, I'm sorry.

The root of all false teaching. And Pastor Chris, right before the break, I had to interrupt you to go into the midway break, so if you could pick up where you left off.

Yes, I believe the question was, there was a gentleman who was in the church, and he was burdened because he wasn't sure if his pastor was teaching the entire truth.

He wasn't sure perhaps if he was not being faithful to rightly divide the word of truth, as Paul not only told

Timothy, but that's not just Paul's pen, that's God's word to all those that would shepherd, pastor, and preach.

So what we were saying was there was a simple path, and Jesus outlines it. He outlines it, whether it may be shepherd and sheep, whether it may be two brothers in Christ, to apply

Matthew chapter 18 to that situation. And then right before we got cut off,

I was encouraging the listener, Chris, to say in this day and age, when we are surrounded by so much darkness and so much deception,

I've seen it. I've seen it, and I sense it in myself that our radar is at peak, peak receptivity.

And what we have to be careful about is if we have faithful,

Bible -proclaiming, Gospel -centered preachers and pastors, we have to be careful that we don't become skeptical of every single

Bible teacher, that there's not a heretic under every single rock. So whatever the context may be,

I think it's helpful to understand it through the lens of the Gospel, the very nature of God, the nature of His word, the very text and power and truth of the good news.

And then if that pastor is intentionally, publicly, repeatedly, and yes, unrepentantly leading the flock astray, as James 3 .1

says, teachers will be held to a higher standard. Then go talk to them, and if they are not humble to hear it, and as I mentioned earlier, that is a sanctifying process for pastors, and bring two people along.

And if it is willful, unrepentant, unbiblical teaching, then yes, it is appropriate to bring the congregation along as well.

Yeah, that just reminded me of two dangers that Christians very often find themselves in.

One is where you make idols of your pastor or your favorite celebrity preacher or teacher or author, and you believe everything that comes from their lips or from their pen.

And the other is what you were just mentioning about distrusting everyone to the point where I know of people that for years and years and years have done nothing but bounce around from church to church to church to church, never wanting to submit to any of them.

And I can't help but think that very often, if not most often, this is a sheer attempt to avoid ever being under the authority of elders and overseers that will be charged by God to examine your life and discipline you if necessary.

So those are two big extremes that exist sadly all too often, don't they, that lead people to tragically only understanding a portion of the

Word of God rightly, if any of it. Amen. And I think we all have tragic examples,

Chris, and may the Lord keep us from besetting sin, entangling sin for pastors, disqualifying sin. But we often see it with tragically a lot of brothers in the

Lord and tragically some shepherds that to justify their sin, and sometimes,

Chris, it's sexual immorality. Then all of a sudden, their doctrine will follow their flesh, and part of the reason that they are no longer submitting to the authority of God's Word is like you just said, they don't want to submit to the

Lordship of Christ over their lives. So that is a potential pitfall. But at the same time,

I have absolutely witnessed what you just saw. And the new predicament is the online teaching.

I encourage people to get plugged in to a Bible -believing church where you can talk to your pastor, where you can interact with your pastor, where he's not just some person on YouTube, but he is someone that has been commissioned by God's shepherding of your soul.

Because in the end, if we are only following YouTube personalities,

I do believe, Chris, that there is a biblical disconnect between you not only using your gifts in a local

Christian community for the glory of God, but then also having someone that God has commissioned to be overseer and shepherd.

And tragically, that is growing in number. More and more people are choosing YouTube personalities as opposed to being plugged in, gathering, and yes, once again, allowing a local pastor, a faithful pastor to shepherd your soul.

Yes, I think that people who have, especially after the COVID hysteria, never left their homes on Sunday morning any longer because they have become lazy and used to watching either the pastor of their former church preach or their celebrity pastor of choice.

But that is a clear violation of Hebrews 10 .25. Do not forsake assembling with the brethren, as many are accustomed to do.

You cannot claim that you are having fellowship and being a participant in the assembly of the brethren just by watching somebody on a screen.

Am I right? Amen. Absolutely. We have a radio broadcast that goes to North Jersey, Central Jersey, New York City, Poughkeepsie, New York.

It's called In Christ Alone, if anyone lives in those areas. And almost daily, Chris, I encourage our listeners to say,

I'm so glad and grateful you're tuning in to this radio broadcast, as I know you do with this podcast.

But please, please, please get plugged into a local church.

Do not delay. Do not push it off. It is for your good. And good doesn't always mean comfortable.

Good is good by God's definition, by His good plan. You are meant to be with the brethren.

You are meant to be with brothers and sisters in Christ on the Lord's Day, worshiping our risen, resurrected

King. Amen. And what further steps could you provide as a matter of pastoral counsel that might further prevent the average

Christian from falling into the trap of only learning and knowing and retaining a portion of God's Word and not the whole counsel of God's Word?

Well, I mean, one of the immediate applications is what we just talked about, is when we control what we learn and control what we take in through vehicles like the internet, like broadcasting, like whatever it may be, then there is a certain aspect that we are acting as consumers and we're not truly acting as brothers and sisters.

Because in the end, if we're in community, and here's what a lot of Christians, I humbly submit this to you,

Chris, a lot of Christians forget, is not only do we apply all the one and others of the

New Testament, and there are dozens and dozens, love one another, serve one another, forgive one another, build one another up, but this is exactly part of God's plan.

It's hard, Chris, for a reason. This is how God sanctifies us.

In the same way our marriages before they're about our personal happiness, they're about our personal holiness, gathering with other brothers and sisters in Christ, as perhaps they get on your nerves, as perhaps they frustrate you, as perhaps, yes, even they do things that offend you.

How do you apply God's word first in your home, but then at your church?

If we're not doing that, we shouldn't be surprised when we are not salt and light in the workplace, the marketplace, or before the unbelieving world, and even those who would persecute us.

The church is a great place. In fact, it's by God's design that we live out our

Christian faith first. We have

Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says, what is your advice in regard to establishing a personal library that features the best in Christian literature from the past and present, where you are not wasting money and time reading books that might be predominantly heretical or misleading?

It's a great question. So speaking as a pastor, Chris, this is what

I have gravitated towards. So I was blessed to go to seminary and in seminary, blessed to sit under some faithful professors, blessed to leave seminary with a truckload full of books.

Here's the reality, though. Very few of those books do I return back to.

So I think it's good to have devotional reading. I think it's good to perhaps have some reading that helps you in your

Christian living. But I would encourage, if you have a budget, and we all have budgets, then go to resources that will help you understand

God's word better. So the more books that resonate with me, Chris, are commentaries.

Now, clearly, that is logical, since I am commissioned and called to rightly exposit

God's word. So I'm going to always be turning back to God's word, and that's why I'll spend most of my time in commentaries.

But people that are not called to be shepherds should still look at these resources, whether it is systematic theologies, whether it is books that teach on the character and nature of God, whether it be books that teach straight -up commentary on God's word.

Those are the books that I go back to over and over again. So there are some books that I could just encourage this brother in Long Island, and it's so good to have a caller from Long Island on, that have shaped my soul.

I think in that top three, I would probably say R .C. Sproul's The Holiness of God.

That is a way to help me better understand not just the holiness of God in Scripture, but the nature of our holy

God. Jerry Bridges' Simple, Easy, Pursuit of Holiness. Powerful book.

I've returned back to that book, Chris, so many times. And then there are other small, little, powerful books, whether it's by Puritans or whether it's by other authors, but I do find myself returning back to A .W.

Tozer's Knowledge of the Holy often. So three books on holiness, but in the end, those books are all about the nature and character of our holy

God and what he has done to save us from our sins through his son,

Jesus Christ. So that's what I would recommend. I don't know if that answers the caller's question. Well, I'd also like to provide recommendations for resources, and I know the first one is going to sound very self -serving because they advertise with me, but Solid Ground Christian Books.

Solid -Ground -Books .com. They are a treasure trove of Christian literature that is sound by authors that you can trust from the past and the present.

Solid -Ground -Books .com. BannerofTruth .org is another publisher.

BannerofTruth .org. And if you go to a book distributor that is not a publisher who carries many publishers, an advertiser with a

CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com. Now, I'm not just mentioning

CVBBS .com and Solid Ground Christian Books because they are advertisers, but remember,

I would not have them as advertisers if I didn't trust what they carry and what they publish.

And if you love this show and you get a sense of the people who are on this program as guests and you are believing that you are benefiting from it, well, that would come from my bias towards what

I would consider sound theology. And therefore, I think that if you love the show, you can rest assured that you can benefit enormously from Solid -Ground -Books .com,

BannerofTruth .org, and CVBBS .com. And when you think of some of the great names of the faith, like Charles Spurgeon, it's interesting how he is almost universally loved by everyone, at least within the evangelical

Protestant realm, who calls themselves a Christian. I've even heard Seventh -day

Adventists tell me that they love reading Charles Spurgeon. So when you hear about somebody that is universally loved from the past like that,

I mean, that isn't always at all a litmus test for something that's trustworthy because, unfortunately, popularity can also be a sign of a book being dangerous, a book by Joel Osteen or something, a very popular pastor.

But going back to a wise sage of old, like Spurgeon, where conservative, theologically minded, biblically literate pastors are endorsing someone like him, you've got to investigate why are so many people that are very trustworthy pastors and preachers quoting from Spurgeon and delving into his writing so much?

Well, there's a reason for it. So definitely Charles Spurgeon, no library would be complete without some of what he had to say.

And there are people out there, as you know, Chris, who think that recommending books and commentaries is a cop -out to sola scriptura.

They will say, how can you believe in sola scriptura and recommend the books, the fallible books by men who are not writing things that are specifically

God -breathed other than when they quote the Bible? Well, I think that if people are so deceived about their own brilliance and intelligence that they don't think they need a teacher, and I consider these books, especially men from the past, the great minds of the faith, they are teachers.

Just because they're dead doesn't mean that they're not still teaching. So we need teachers, and we do need to be careful about who we submit ourselves to as a student.

But we do need teachers, and that is a biblical truth. So we are not at all violating sola scriptura.

We are embracing it by following what the scriptures say about having teachers. Am I right?

Amen. Amen. And of course, you want to guard your heart, right? So you want to make sure your affections are for our first love.

Make sure that our priority is God's word. That we, as Jesus said, do not live by bread alone but by every single word that comes from the mouth of God.

So we find our sustenance. We find our strength. We find light and life only from Christ and His word.

And like you said, Ephesians chapter 4. I mean, Ephesians chapter 4 tells us that God has given to the church teachers, evangelists, right?

So what does it mean for us to see these books and these resources as teaching?

And that's a good thing. You should guard your heart so that even as we consider some of these pillars of the faith, like Spurgeon, whoever it may be.

We should guard our hearts so we don't put Spurgeon above scripture. But so many Christians would be blessed if they have a steady, regular, daily intake of God's word.

They would also be so blessed to go on this journey of understanding the word of God with these faithful brothers that have been teaching either for decades now or in centuries past.

And by God's grace, we're faithful to the end. It can be a wonderful blessing to you understanding the word better.

We have an anonymous listener who asked, Do you think it is a dangerous sign when your pastor never shares his pulpit with anyone, perhaps unless he is seriously sick or on vacation?

Wow, that's an interesting question. And I wonder how often that can be a reflection of the pastor.

I wonder also if that can sometimes be a reflection of the church.

I would say if that brother is in the pulpit 51, 52 weeks of the year and not taking time, not only to allow someone else to preach, to raise up other proclaimers, other teachers, other preachers.

But for the sake of his own soul, is not taking time with his family, not taking rest.

That could be a warning sign without knowing the person, without knowing the pastor. Obviously, we want to use wisdom and discretion.

We don't know the context. But to be honest, Chris, I mean, I consider my primary role as a pastor and pastor means shepherd to point people to the good shepherd, the chief shepherd,

Jesus. And the only way that I do that is through his word, through his word. That's my first and primary calling.

So I'm probably in the pulpit, let's say 40 weeks out of the 51.

But I can't imagine not only being in there more than that, but then it's also such a blessing to have my fellow brothers.

We have other pastors at the church get into the saddle so they might grow in their gifting.

And I'm grateful for pastors that let me preach when I wasn't the lead pastor, senior pastor.

So it is a great way for them to cultivate their gifting as well. Yes, and no man should view himself and no hearer, listener, reader should view other men as being so biblically wise and knowledgeable that they have a full grasp of every area of teaching in the

Bible. The Scriptures are the unsearchable riches of Scripture, and men need to be humble enough to recognize that no matter how brilliant they are and how biblically literate they are, that I should have other men open up the word that have impressed me with their keen insight into other areas of the

Scripture where I may to some degree lack. I think that there is great wisdom and humility of that kind, and you could be stifling a congregation from really ever growing because human beings are limited in what they can teach, and they are limited in what they understand.

So at least in an equal depth with somebody who, like I just said, may be gifted from God to have discovered things or who have studied things at a greater depth than the

Scriptures that have brought them to a deeper truth than their colleagues in ministry may have found.

Am I making sense there? Well, absolutely, and of course we believe every single word of God's word is breathed out by God.

And yet at the same time we see that God used Peter, God used Paul, God used

John, God used Luke, all of these men. And in their writings you could tell, you could just tell that this is

Peter, this is Paul, this is John. So if the Lord, if the

Lord would inspire and breathe out His word through different men, yeah, yeah,

I mean we shouldn't think in our local churches that our church should only hear from one person.

I agree with that entirely. Yes, amen. And I'm glad to hear that you do have multiple pastors in your church because I think that's a very important thing.

I think it's biblical and I think that it prevents hobby -horsing, it prevents, not perfectly, but it does tend to be a roadblock at least to things like having tunnel vision from one man who is perhaps unconsciously just focusing on certain areas of the

Scripture to the neglect of others and to the detriment of the whole congregation. We have to go to our final break right now.

If you have any intention on joining the conversation with Chris Durkin, please send in your email to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. I also want to remind our anonymous listeners who have sent in questions, if you are first -time questioners to the

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Don't go away, we'll be right back with the remainder of our discussion with Chris Durkin after these messages from our sponsors.

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. Welcome back.

Chris, we have an anonymous listener who says, don't you think that one of the primary reasons why even faithful men of God fall into the trap of not preaching the whole counsel of God is pure and simple out of terror and fear of fellow elders or deacon boards or perhaps a wealthy family or two who may be upset by what these pastors are saying and therefore are risking their very livelihoods?

Yeah, it could be. I mean, this is why even as pastors are called to shepherd the flock out of devotion to Christ, sometimes there is temptation that we would cater to those that are not only in the world, not only worldliness, but cater to those that are in our churches.

That because of more financial reasons than biblical or theological reasons, we are pressured or we feel pressured to soften certain edges, not teach entire portions of scripture.

Chris, I humbly submit to you, I think over the next 10 years, we are going to see a massive closing of many churches across the

American landscape. I always think of the seven letters to the seven churches where Jesus said, if you do not repent,

I will remove the lampstand from you. So in the end, Jesus, the resurrected risen

Lord, is a reformer and he is reforming the church even now. If pastors and the flock and the sheep don't repent of their sin, you can have a building.

You might have a facility, but God left the building a long time ago. So we need to honor the

Lord first, regardless of who may be wealthy in the church, who may be influential in the church.

We think of Martin Luther who stood before all the powers, both religious and political, and he said, here

I stand. I can go no further. My soul, my conscience must be beholden to the word of God.

That moment of standing will come for every single Christian and every single pastor. Could you say in summary what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners about this topic today before we go off the air?

There's so much to say about truth, God's truth. Think of it, Chris, last thing. Let's take it not to focus too much on the serpent, but to focus on our

Savior. We have the serpent in the garden who was leading our first parents,

Adam and Eve, to partake of the forbidden fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Contrast that with Jesus who at the Last Supper said, take and eat.

This is my body. This is my blood. He was giving himself. He would die on a tree so that we who, in the same way our first parents rebelled and sinned, we could be saved by him.

So Jesus Christ is our hope. Cling to him, trust in him, and may your love for him lead to a love for the authority of God's word in your life.

Amen. Well, I want to thank you so much, Pastor Chris Durkin, for being such a superb guest as you have proven to be twice.

I look forward to many more opportunities to have you back on the program to discuss anything that is burdening your heart and mind.

And I want to repeat the website for the church where our guest, Pastor Chris Durkin, serves as a pastor and undershepherd.

It is coltsneckchurch .com. C -O -L -T -S, neckchurch .com.

I also want to remind all of you to please mark down on your calendars those dates

I mentioned earlier, September 15th, 16th, and 17th. That's a

Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. For James R. White, who is coming out to Lancaster, Pennsylvania to speak for three days and also possibly to conduct a debate.

We are still working on finalizing that debate, and we have not yet chosen a venue where this event will be taking place.

It's possible it may take place in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, about an hour away from Lancaster.

But it is the hope of the ministry hosting this event, this three -day event, that they do desire for it to take place in Lancaster.

That's where they are. I'm speaking of the Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society. To keep yourself updated on this three -day event, continue to revisit midatlanticreformation .org,

midatlanticreformation .org. I want to thank all of you who listened today, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.