New Age Discussion with Doreen Virtue

Live Stream Technical Difficulties and Show Introduction

Mr. Smalley, do you believe that abortion is moral? Oh boy. We are trying to be live. Let's see if we could change that there we go. We are live having technical issues with stream yard so it just before we went live.

Booted.

Myself and the co-host out. Or our guests I should say out and she's still trying to get back in so we're gonna be running doing some technical stuff back here while we while we try to get her logged in and My co-host drew is not in so This will be a rocky start of a show.

Sorry about that folks. This is a politics live. We're here to answer your most challenging questions. You have about God and the Bible and just click on the little duck icon for stream yard. Allow your mic to be used.

I would actually appreciate if anyone would do that right now. Just so we could test to see if someone can get in so we know if it's what's going on with our guest who was In earlier, we did do an equipment check and made sure everything sounded great and then two minutes before Nothing was working.

It booted me out. I had to relog in and she's having trouble Getting in so I would say that if anyone can just do a quick test with me. Just jump in apologetics live .com just to make sure that To see what it is.

Our topic tonight is going to be the new age movement. With our guest Doreen virtue, which we are hoping we can get her in so the We're not sure what exactly happened with stream yard, but I don't know.

So this is a ministry of striving for eternity. This is Something I am the host of the show Andrew rap report. I am the executive director of striving for eternity and the Christian podcast community and also The executive director of the Christian podcast community.

All right, let's bring our guest in and make sure we can hear her.

Doreen welcome. Oh.

No, it's still saying you're muted or at least I'm not hearing you. Oh Folks we actually did test this we had it all working. We really did. This is the thing with a live stream. You just don't know what's gonna happen.

I'm trying to look to see if there's any settings on my side. Because I it looks like that, okay, how about how about now we go now. I hear you. Okay. All right.

So many buttons to push here.

Hi.

The show can only get better from this point on. After that start.

We're uphill now. That's right.

So.

So.

Let me introduce the reason for the show and then I want to introduce our guest Doreen. We had gone and I do want to let you guys know. I thank you when you give us ideas of what you want to hear. And so we got a an email a couple of emails actually one that asked whether I would be willing to discuss the new age movement and.

So since I'm such an expert on that or not I know a little bit about it. But I know someone who actually is an expert and I figured we'd have her on. We also are gonna do some series. We had someone that really appreciated when we talked about mental health and.

And even broader just we're trying to get into just health in general and we never actually got to discussing that. So what I think what we're gonna end up doing is a summer series. We never actually did something like that before so we're gonna try it.

We're gonna do a summer series since two of our speakers at Striving for Eternity are ACBC counselors and my pastor and his wife are ACBC counselors. We're gonna do a series throughout the summer where we'll have the four of them on to discuss different topics dealing with Counseling so if you would like your favorite topic or a topic you really say, you know I'd really want to get something put to be heard about just contact us at info at striving for Eternity calm info at striving for Eternity Calm and here is my co-host coming in.

Drew, how are you, sir?

Good.

Good you deserve to be. You got literal ones running around your house. Yeah, so so I'm here.

Until my wife texts me and We can go spend time together, yes, so you're shown.

I'll see now it doesn't show the see. They reset all the settings to by the way when just before we we went in. We had everything got. They booted us out of StreamYard and now I'm noticing that when I when I take away the banner.

It was supposed to come up with your your tagline, which is then dead guy readers. And I was gonna make a joke about you being dead tired, but okay, we will have to figure out the settings another time.

So.

So yeah, so we had a user who listener sorry who said hey would really like to understand more about new age. They have a family member who is Getting pulled into that and they just really were not sure how to answer for some of the things that were that were coming up and so I asked Doreen if she would come in now.

Doreen you have a little bit of a background. I mean you you might have studied New Age a little bit. Is that that right? Yeah, just a little bit.

Doreen Virtue’s Testimony Out of the New Age

Well, I was raised in metaphysics new thought kind of like the Norman Vincent Peale type of Christian science Phineas Quimby background and then For over 20 years. I got into New Age and occultism and was a top-selling New Age teacher.

Unfortunately was was very ambitious and now I regret that because I have books out there. I can't get off the market. The only Romans 828 part about it is that my websites on the back of those books and people do.

Come to me through that and they hear I get to talk with them about the gospel and why I don't do that anymore. Why and how God miraculously saved me out of the New Age.

Yeah, I mean right on on the on your cover, you know, you have You know a book deceived no more. Right. So, I mean it's I think it's it's it's neat that at least people will go to the website To to find you and that something you I never I didn't know that about the books.

So I would did want to I was gonna ask you as a question like how long ago did you grab the the name during virtue comm because That and I should I should put that banner up so folks can know the website to go to for you.

Um, you must have gotten that a long time ago. Yeah. Yeah, I did and I never used it. The website used to be called angel therapy comm because that was I was known as the angel lady. I wasn't teaching angels biblically, but I thought that I was communicating with angels from God and.

So that was really famous for these cards that were mimicked after Tarot cards, but they had all angels on them and so-called positive messages. But they all failed terribly the test of the Spirit that John gives us in first John for one because none of my work pointed people to the real Jesus to a Biblically solid church or to Bible study.

It all pointed to people to themselves because that's what the New Age does. It's all about glorifying the selves. It's the New Age. Kind of the catch-all for it is that it's a desire for power and control.

It's not knowing God so you don't trust God. So you're you think you're on your own to try to make things happen. You want to predict the future? You want to control the future and the New Age is happy to give you gimmicks for a price to try to do that.

So you take lots of classes you get lots of certifications and read lots of books. Go to lots of seminars and they teach you things like using your thoughts to create your reality visualization crystals astrology divination past life regression hypnosis.

All sort even oils and crystals you use and it's all in this desire to be your own. Lowercase g god, it's very Genesis 3.

New Age Denominations, Origins, and the Drive for Control

Wow. And Just because she mentioned angels and how does Angels play into New Age thought because people typically when they think of angels surely they would think Bible God. So, how does that?

Fit together in New Age. Well New Age has a lot of if you will Denominations and so there are people who would reject in the New Age the idea of angels altogether. I was more I was more similar to Chris Vallotton of Bethel Redding Than I was to some of the occultic artists in the New Ages.

And because I was I thought I was a Christian being raised Christian scientist. We went to church twice a week. We read the KJV only Bible my whole life. So I I thought I was blending Christian science Christianity really with New Age practices like psychic readings and mediumship and divination and I thought that as long as you were being positive and You were being helpful that God would approve of it.

I had no idea till I finally read Deuteronomy 18 10 through 12 that I learned I was actually a Detestable abomination to God for doing these things so the people in my workshops tended to be women who had come out of Evangelical Protestant churches and Roman Catholicism even Mormonism and they had come to New Age With people like me because it seemed biblical because we were using the names Angels and we were even saying God and the Holy Spirit and Jesus in my workshops.

But it was not biblical at all and there was no gospel is the most important thing it was all this self works false gospel.

Yeah, yeah, there was. You mentioning that you grew up Christian science it made me think of there's a singer. His name is Miles Kennedy. And if anyone who's familiar with like the band Guns and Roses and things like that from the 80s.

You know, he kind of partnered with the guitarist slash and they kind of do their own thing but Miles Kennedy grew up Christian science and His dad got really sick with cancer and ended up dying. But he was taught that the teaching is you don't go to doctors.

No pray for healing and everything. Well when his dad didn't get healed. He he became atheist altogether. And now if you listen to a lot of the songs that he writes. They're very anti God, I mean, I mean they're against God and and he's super super talented.

And I always just said to myself if I had ever had the opportunity to meet him I want to be able to sit down and talk with him about because I've heard he's just the nicest guy ever. But I would love to be able to sit down with him and say hey what you were in.

Was not Christian and it wasn't science either.

No, and you never hear the gospel in the Christian Science Church at all. You hear cherry-picked Bible vs King James version only and I. I still read the King James occasionally, but having that as your only Translation.

It was a stumbling block for me for the Elizabethan at language. For instance, we grew up knowing the Bible said you can't do necromancy, but no one explained what necromancy was to me. It was an archaic word.

And when I realized that I was doing it as a medium later. I was floored. I literally did not know I was violating that part of the Bible.

You know and I should say if people do want to hear a little bit more of your testimony I had you on my rap report podcast some time ago. So if you'll go to rap report org Wrap with two P's so rap report org and just do a search for Doreen's name.

You'll you'll find that interview. And I was recently on your show where I gave my test. Recorded it a while ago, but.

I'm the slowest editor in the world. So I. I put up a video about the cards at Bethel. It took me four years to put to edit the video. Wow, so so I know cuz I.

Okay, so folks if there's anyone who is really good video editor and would like to volunteer and donate some time to Doreen. Go to Doreen virtue. And help her out.

Yeah, that'd be nice. I I'm doing it single-handedly on an iPad right now and it's it's a time-consuming.

Yes time I would I would do it for you. But now I just have zero time because I used. Because you know, you and I have a mutual friend and Dave Jenkins.

Oh, wow. He just texted. I want to ask him to come see us. Yeah, and.

I used to do some editing for some of the stuff he did and. But now I have. He texted me the other day and said hey, I need your help with some podcasts and I'm like No, I can barely do this one. I hear you.

Okay. Well, mr. Hap's Addison says Doreen is of he must have met you if. If you've met haps, you'd recognize him. He's yeah, and he's got a long white beard and he talks all gruffy.

And maybe we met at g3. I met quite a few people there last year. Yeah, so.

And this from a Listener from the Philippines. She says I love reading listening to people's testimonies. Well, we'll go seek out Doreen. So good you you know. It really I was very impressed with your background.

What God ended up doing in your life. Yeah, so so let's start off. For folks who may be Completely ignorant of new age as the case of the the person who contacted us and asked for this to be a topic Would you be able to define?

What is the new age movement? I mean you mentioned the like that there's denominations within it and this is a thing like that was new to me. I didn't realize I should have thought about it because just like with on every group there becomes different fractions Divisions so I shouldn't have been surprised.

Everyone's especially when people are trying to build platforms for themselves. Of course, there's going to be.

Division.

So so what let's start off. What is the new age when people say new age? What's the new age movement? What how how did this start and how is it worked into what it is today?

Okay. Well, I mean it started with the devil, but a lot of it came through Phineas Quimby who in the 1800s Decided that he wanted to teach a combination of what was called mesmerism back then hypnosis to heal people it was all about let's physically heal people and his his students the the tentacles of his students went out to Mary Baker Eddie.

And the the Fillmore's the people who created all of the new thought churches were his students. And then also there's another branch that went off into Madame Blavatsky and the Theosophists and then AW Kenyon is in there too to go up to word of faith.

So this one man kind of begat all this deception. And of course, we know that the father of lies was behind him and you can see that. You can even see Aleister Crowley and Satanism coming out of this lineage and the all of it is Genesis 3.

Did God really say that. And you could be your own God you could have the wisdom of God. So it's this desire to It to be in control. You you want to be the one who creates and you want to tell God what to do?

So decreeing and declaring is a part of that. Joel Osteen teaching that your thoughts are Can create your reality is identical to what you see with your Abraham Hicks and your Louise? Hey, and your Deepak Chopra in the New Age saying your thoughts create your reality.

It's all the same thing. You even see that at Bethel Reading and and all of it is self.

Glory.

Instead of glorifying God, which is the purpose of Christianity. So if this person who wrote to you their loved one is dabbling a new age Typically what happens and this is why there's so many Factions and so many denominations is people will start out with something that seems really innocent.

The number one way people get into the New Age is through yoga and I get so much pushback on this. But I don't care because I can back this up. I have receipts and The yoga is the word is Sanskrit for yoke which means bind and it's Being bound to the Hindu deity Brahma or Shiva and each of the poses or asanas of yoga.

They each glorify or mimic the characteristics of one of the 330 million Hindu deities and This was popularized by the Beatles and a man named Yogananda who came to the West and brought the the Indian Hinduism here.

The thing is I did yoga almost every day for over 20 years. It does seem to feel good. It does seem to relax you. It does seem to tone your arms and and give you weight loss and it's a good social hour and such.

It seems pleasant. But most yoga studios are filled with idols statues of Hindu and Buddhist deities and they also.

Use.

Blasphemous Sanskrit prayers like namaste I think everyone's heard of that and om and those are both prayers to the universe in blasphemous ways. So Then people will say well what about Christian yoga or holy yoga and I always say well.

You're using the same poses even though they're named different things and then they say well what about first Corinthians 10 where Paul said that the meat that was prayed over by the idols could be Redeemed and the truth is that the yoga is not analogous to the meat being redeemed.

The yoga is analogous to the prayers and even the pagan temple of first Corinthians 10. It absolutely cannot be redeemed. Stretching is fine. I stretch every day. It's good for us. It helps me to sleep most people like stretching but the specific Poses like the Sun Salutation in particular the warrior pose each one of these poses I have a video showing which Hindu deity you are mimicking with each pose.

No Christian woman or man should be doing yoga. Even if it's called praise moves holy yoga gospel yoga Christian yoga. It's like taking a Ouija board and trying to put Bible verses on it and say it's redeemed.

It is literally irredeemable. And if people don't believe me come to my youtube channel and I'll show you videos by an ex Hindu Brahman Who had a yoga studio in his house growing up and he will point you to the ancient Vedic records of Hinduism to show how it is a Hindu worship practice.

And so most people kind of go in like, you know, Goldilocks or was it the Goldilocks? It was Hansel and Gretel. They followed the little breadcrumb trails. Yes to the witch. Yeah, right. So so the yoga leads to darker and darker things.

So you start out with yoga and then for me I got involved with worship literally praying to and worshiping Hindu Goddesses. I had statues all over my house through doing yoga and then a lot of yoga studios will take you on guided Meditations in the last pose of the day called shavasana or the corpse pose.

The dead person pose and they take you to meet your spirit guide who's got a gift for you. I mean, it's it's it puts you into a trance state and then you can see the tentacles of new age going into the church.

Through this I just got a letter today you guys from a woman Who's at a otherwise biblically solid church where they go exegetical line by line through the Bible. But the pastor has started introducing mystical monasticism Into the church the contemplative practices that you see Richard Rohrer pushing and Bethel pushing where you're supposed to meditate.

Not on scripture like Psalm 1 and Joshua 1 say which is Haga right in Hebrew. And that means mutter or utter out loud the scripture these this pastor is Guiding the congregants to imagine they're meeting Jesus.

And what is he saying to you? How dangerous how dangerous is that? She she's gonna try talking to the pastor, but she was probably gonna have to change churches. We're seeing this at an alarming rate this contemplative practice.

It's called mindfulness. Mindfulness where you're supposed to check this out mindfulness practices which are being purported to be Christian. But came through Jon Kabat-Zinn. Who's a Hindu Buddhist?

Neuro.

Neuroscientists from Harvard and he popularized this and put it into regular Western medical doctor's offices in hospitals. Mindfulness is the practice of observing your thoughts without judgment. You're just supposed to if what does the Bible say about your thoughts?

You can take them captive captive.

Exactly. And you're supposed to repent for a lot of your thoughts because they're sinful. I mean, what did our Lord and Savior say in the Sermon on the Mount? About thoughts. Well, so this practice is going into the church.

It's outrageous.

Mindfulness, Christian Mysticism, and the New Age in the Church

Yeah, I mean this was this was the same thing and just to loop back for folks who listen regularly if you remember back. With the gentleman who wanted to come in here and debate me on Affirming Christianity, but he doesn't want to talk about what those that remember.

He doesn't want to talk about lust. He doesn't want to talk about the thought life. Because he wants to say that that is is just not a sin. It's as long as he can cuddle with his boyfriend and not actually consummate it then it's not a sin.

Well as long as you ignore the thought life, which the scripture speaks highly about then, okay, maybe. But Unfortunately, you can't say that it's biblical so it's the same thing. It's like people want to ignore the thought life which the scripture speaks so much about.

You know John Owen in his work. I can't remember which volume but it's the one that has the mortification of sin section in there called on temptation and he talks about taking captive the mind the thoughts of the mind because If the sinful thought gets control of the mind Even before the action is come is is performed.

You've already sinned. So even just by thinking about the action, how can I complete this action? You know all the things that just that just go along with a thought process. If you even allow it into your mind, you've already committed.

You're already guilty of it.

So let's let's dig in. You gave a lot. I want to dig into some stuff. We did a theology throwdown where we talked about things like yoga and I know that some of the listeners who heard that podcast that We do it from the Christian podcast community We had differing views.

I will admit that with yoga. I I'm pretty ignorant of it. You I may end up changing the views of what I said on that show because you know. But I had said like karate had a very mystical. You know karate at least in in some of the Asian countries had more of a Meditation to it and more religious component to it.

And as it came to America, it really was just a defense. But and I I had thought yoga very similar in a similar vein where it was it was stretching with that. But I but I've I've hence learned from you.

Watching some of your stuff that it's it's not as innocent as that. No.

You're not stretching. I mean you there's an instructor coming over every two minutes to Correct your positions. If it was just stretching there'd be no person correcting you you just do what comes natural and You're acting out like okay the warrior pose Veerabhadrasana that's that asana means pose.

You're doing the pose of Veerabhadras and Veerabhadras was in Hindu mythology I don't believe they actually exist, but I do believe there's demons who can masquerade as these deities and by the Regardless, you're glorifying them.

So Veerabhadras He was a murderer and so with the Veerabhadras warrior one two, and three the reason your arms are out perfectly Perpendicular is you're mimicking a murder scene from Revenge for Shiva's son.

So how is that glorifying our one true God when the Bible exhorts us with everything we do everything To glorify God that's glorifying Shiva.

Yeah you so a couple years ago. There were some people that I was friends with on Facebook and I knew them from when I was in the charismatic movement. When I went to a vineyard church and the late I used to play guitar with her husband, but the wife.

She started basically a Christian yoga practice business and I shared one of your posts that was fully in-depth. As they always are and I love them and I shared it and she didn't say anything. She just unfriended me.

Yeah, people don't like their idols criticized.

But you make a great point here because People think oh, well, it's just stretching and then they can meet offer titles. I have never thought about That you're not. It's not the meat compared to idols.

You're offering prayers in these poses. That's right.

It's changes the game. Yeah, that's totally the prayers. Yeah, Paul never said the prayers could be redeemed. He just said the meat could. And and so the other part is that word it violates the first two commandments and we do yoga.

We're to have no other gods before us and we're have no graven images. Check it out. If people don't believe me go compare a picture of the yoga pose called Lord of the dance with a picture of Shiva and they're identical.

You're making your body to look just like a statue of Shiva with Lord of the dance. And so you're making your body a graven image at that point. Yeah, I it's just irredeemable. I mean I'm not trying to spoil people's fun.

I love doing yoga. I thought it was great. I had better toned arms than I do now. But I wouldn't. I threw away all my yoga mats my yoga gear. I would never ever do yoga ever again from what I've learned because I Care too much about glorifying God and I pray that anyone is listening.

They have ears to hear this.

Yoga, Christian Yoga, and Why It Cannot Be Redeemed

Yeah, so let's Comment Melissa has is there are so many churches that offer yoga classes for women and and so whenever this whenever this comes up I always feel obligated to to give this disclaimer. Okay, and during you this this may be new News to you, but so I last church I was at when I lived in New Jersey.

The pastor of the church he and his wife met on the mission field in India. They they got they're actually both from New Jersey, but they they met in India. So but they had they came back stateside she was teaching holy yoga and he actually got on the board at holy yoga and so he he viewed it from a an opportunity of using yoga as a means of Evangelism and they were trying to you know that his wife would redeem it now.

It is interesting. He got on there and one of the first things he did was Well, they removed all the unsaved board members and required that all Instructors had to be Christian because they had lesbians who are leading who were doing teaching these classes.

I'm saying this to say that when people think like holy yoga, that's good because it's Christian based. I want you to realize Behind the scenes it wasn't good. He tried a lot to make changes that would be at least more biblical.

He and I disagreed on this. I Didn't think that his wife should be doing that nor should he be on the board and but you know I respected him for trying to say okay if it's gonna say it's a Christian ministry.

Let's try to make this follow. What a Christian ministry should be however. What ended up happening though is holy yoga is a major money maker to the point where? The government came in and said this is not a non-profit.

You're selling classes and things like so the the government required that holy yoga Separate their for-profit from their nonprofit and it came down to the decision of whether as as my pastor had said that the Nonprofit had to be over the for-profit for the accountability and control.

The end result is the reverse. The founder of holy yoga Wanted the control and put the for-profit business over the nonprofit. So that she wouldn't have the the board having to tell her what to do with the money Aspect and he at that moment resigned from the board.

So it it's now I think without someone like him on there and with the moves that they've made when when churches bring this in. Realize that this is the person who runs this is a woman who has no discernment.

She had to have a pastor come in to say no you if you're gonna do a ministry you actually have to have believers doing it like. That wasn't something she was doing and and now you know that she's not looking at this is no longer a ministry.

It's it's money-making. So I always feel like I have because people who may know that my pastor was on that board. Whenever yoga comes up, I always feel like I have to explain this. Yeah, it's a great story.

Like hey, we disagreed on it. I don't want people to think that all you because I've had people say. Oh, well, you you went to church where the pastor was on the board of holy yoga and his wife was it?

Yeah, it's true and.

You know.

But that doesn't mean I was in line with it it doesn't mean we had not and and I at least respect what he was trying to do with it, but. It like you're saying you can't redeem the yoga. Well, holy even more you can't redeem the holy yoga, yeah.

What was that true. I said don't mess with my money. Andrew, yeah, yeah. You know, I saw a comment. I think it was by Fatima earlier. She said so basically. New ages everywhere, you know. And Doreen you mentioned.

Where's the comment put it up?

You look for that when I put some of these others that I started first off haps said that he didn't meet you at g3.

Oh, hi. Yes, I remember. Um, here it is. Here it is. Okay. I.

I'll.

You put it up. Okay, it says Oh Doreen. In other words, the new age is just everywhere. It's terrible.

I we just did an episode of my podcast even mine when she's saying this. Doreen.

Fatima is from the Philippines. This is the other side. So when she's saying it's everywhere well if it's here and there.

Literally, I feel bad because I toured for over 20 years around the world giving new age Heretical blasphemous workshops and I can actually see the ripple effects of some of my old teachings now and so it's one of the reasons I've worked tirelessly to warn people about this because I was so deceived and Naive to because I was biblically illiterate.

I mean that was the bottom line and so I used to tour to Asia. And teach there and yeah, I my on my podcast new age to new heart my my co-hosts and I we recently went to various stores and took videos of the new age items being for Sold and and my part was I went to Hobby Lobby, which is a professing Christian store.

And I was very sad to see in their jewelry section how much new age symbolism jewelry They're selling at Hobby Lobby and and also dream catchers, which seem like beautiful wall hangings but what the new age does is it it it appropriates from various cultures and even from various religions and then it puts a Spin on it and calls it new age and dream catchers.

Of course is from Native American shamanism and the belief is that if you put one on your wall That it will catch the bad dreams and the demons from your dreams. And I have no idea why you'd want something on your wall.

That would be catching demons and bad dreams. But nonetheless they sell this at Hobby Lobby. They have a whole end cap display on it. And then they also sell Crystal points now it gets confusing for Chris Christian women because as we know there's crystals in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

But the way that the new age uses crystals is idolatrous. They say that crystals have magical special powers apart from God who made them and that each crystal has a different divination meaning and healing purpose and these crystal points that people wear on their necklace are designed to Open you up to be more psychic and I was horrified to find that so many of these were being sold at Hobby Lobby and Even the names on them was was very new age.

I think that people are just naive to this. So I'm trying to warn them I would love to talk with the buyer at Hobby Lobby and kind of give her a heads up that hey You are actually opening doorways to demons by putting these in your store for naive Professing Christians who are shopping there.

New Age Symbols in Christian Stores and the Danger of Naivety

Yeah, I had an experience with when my daughter first went to Cedarville University and I walked through and this is gonna be Sun. I know we could we could talk about it as well. Is the the book Jesus calling and how.

And I saw that prominently displayed in the bookstore and I I you know immediately went and asked for the manager of the bookstore and I said do you are you aware that this is a demonic book? And she said it's not demonic and I pulled one off the the shelf and I just opened her the introduction.

I say look she's saying that she didn't write this. She just she just closed her eyes and a spirit took over and wrote this and then I start just flipping through to some of The unbiblical things that are interesting.

So if she's saying a spirit wrote this and this is not lining with the Bible. It's demonic like you got you got to remove this and she she was like, oh, we're not gonna remove it. Now unfortunately for her I happen to know the president of Cedarville so I Emailed Thomas and I'm like Thomas.

Do you know that this is in the in the thing?

He's like no and it was gone right away. Oh, praise the Lord. I love your boldness. Thank you.