Praise for Adam Kinzinger and Keller Explains Third Way

Conversations That Matter

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

Welcome once again to the

00:13

Conversations That Matter podcast. I'm your host, John Harris, here to talk about some stuff that happened in the

00:20

Twitter sphere over the last few days. Some people were sending me some screenshots and information you're not really gonna hear anywhere else about what's happening in evangelicalism.

00:29

I thought it was such a good example, though. It was such a good example. There's two things primarily we're gonna talk about, but there's one that's just such a good example of the double standard that exists for political allies.

00:42

When evangelical leaders, elites, want to band together with political allies these days, it's not your grandfather's religious right.

00:53

We'll just put it that way. The disdain and the hatred for Donald Trump is off the charts with some of the people

01:01

I'm gonna talk to you about, like David French, Russell Moore. But then the praise for someone who, believe it or not, just showed support for both same -sex marriage and abortion.

01:17

I kid you not. And it's over -the -top support for this particular individual. Pretty amazing to me.

01:25

And he's been platformed, this individual that I'm about to share with you, a congressman from Illinois, as what a

01:33

Christian ought to be. This is how a Christian who has political power should steward that power.

01:41

Some have told me, who analyze these kinds of things, that evangelicals don't know what to do with political power when they get it.

01:49

That they like to be in a state of, in a position of not really having the power, being sort of counter -cultural.

01:58

Maybe some truth to that. But when someone does, from their ranks, or someone they respect, gets in a position of political power, and they choose to platform them and use them as an example, this is the kind of person.

02:11

I'm gonna show you that person in a second. Before we do, though, one of the sponsors for this show,

02:17

I just wanna share with you a little bit about an organization that I do believe in.

02:23

This is Equipping the Persecuted. And the reason, I just wanna tell you the reason I believe in this organization, it's,

02:29

I tend to have a high threshold. I tend to be skeptical about Christian organizations.

02:37

I need to do my homework. I need to know, where's the money going? How is it getting there? There are some organizations, for example,

02:45

Compassion International. My wife and I have been sponsoring a child through Compassion International for a while.

02:50

And one of the reasons, though, that I'm comfortable doing that is because it's actually a child at an orphanage in the

02:57

Dominican Republic, which my church has a relationship with. In other words, people from my church have gone over there, and they know that this child exists.

03:07

They know that the orphanage is doing good work, and they're sharing the gospel, and my church is directly represented in that.

03:13

And so I feel comfortable sponsoring this child, and I feel comfortable giving my money to that particular orphanage through Compassion International.

03:22

That's just giving you a little taste for how I view giving to organizations, because it's,

03:31

I need to know, and it's, there's been so much betrayal, so much corruption, so much compromise over the last few years in so many different organizations, including missions organizations, that it's given me some pause.

03:45

Well, here's an organization that I don't have pause towards and that's Equipping the Persecuted. Now, Equipping the

03:51

Persecuted does a number of things. It's not just preaching the gospel, but they do do that.

03:58

They are involved in protecting, rebuilding, and strengthening the families affected by terrorism in Nigeria.

04:07

And for those who don't know, there's essentially still, there's a war basically going on in Nigeria, and it's

04:14

Muslims against Christians. And there's many Bible -believing Christians in these small villages who are being slaughtered at times.

04:22

It is absolutely heartbreaking. People just come into town with even automatic weapons, bombs, all kinds of things, and they will slaughter the populations of these towns if they do not convert to Islam.

04:37

And this happens as a regular occurrence. I remember a few years ago, I think it was Voice of the Martyrs had done a, had talked about this, but Voice of the

04:45

Martyrs didn't have any boots on the ground. There was no aid from Voice of the Martyrs going in this particular incident that I'm thinking of to the people in Nigeria.

04:55

Well, Equipping the Persecuted was started as a way to supplement that, to really supplement what wasn't there before, to give supplies to Christians in Nigeria that they need to defend themselves, to help communicate between themselves, to try to resist some of this through body armor, that kind of thing, to be able to withstand, to give them training, but to give them food.

05:27

And there's also refugee camps that they go to, and they bring food, they bring the needed supplies, medicine, that kind of thing.

05:35

And along the way, the people who work there are involved in gospel work as well.

05:42

They are sharing the gospel, they're given opportunities to preach. My friend Judd Saul, who directed

05:48

Enemies Within the Church, goes to Nigeria every year, I think sometimes a couple times a year, and I've actually been in the car with him when we received phone calls from the actual boots on the ground, the people who are over there working on these various things.

06:02

And so I know it's real, I know it's legitimate. I've heard the multiple times, heard the phone calls, and I've heard how the decisions are made.

06:11

And so this is an organization, if you're looking to give to a charity that is not woke, that is actually helping

06:20

Christians across the world who are in persecuted areas, then please consider

06:26

Equipping the Persecuted. You can make a monthly donation if you would like.

06:32

There's a suggested donation of $20 a month, but our money goes far over there.

06:37

So consider looking into Equipping the Persecuted. You can go to equippingthepersecuted .org

06:44

if you want to check that out. Now, I want to talk as well about something that's coming up, and I am not asking for donations, but I am making the possibility of donations available to those who want to contribute towards some of my efforts, but really want to give towards a 501c3, because my

07:03

Patreon is not a 501c3. I'm self -employed in that sense.

07:10

But the thing that I'm behind, the thing

07:17

I'm organizing, the retreat for men this fall is gonna be going through a church, and that church is a 501c3.

07:24

So I'll show you here. I'm in the preliminary steps, but this is gonna come together real quick, like in the next week.

07:31

This is probably all gonna come together. And I'll just read for you what I put. The link for this, by the way, is in the info section for this video.

07:40

Men's Retreat with Dr. Russell Fuller, October 28th through 30th. Dr. Russell Fuller is presenting the Life and Ministry of Jeremiah for Christian Men, serious about walking with the

07:48

Lord. Arrival will be Friday afternoon. The first session will be Friday evening. Remaining sessions will be on Saturday. A church service will be provided for those who desire to stay

07:56

Sunday morning. Participants will also enjoy outdoor activities, such as hiking, boating, fishing, swimming, et cetera, and nightly bonfires.

08:03

Food and sleeping arrangements are provided. Location, schedule, and cost are to be determined. But retreat will be in Eastern New York or Pennsylvania area, most likely the

08:12

Adirondack region. There will be a way to coordinate airport transportation as well. The retreat is for all men.

08:17

Those under 18 need to be accompanied by an adult. There's an opportunity to connect with the Lord in worship as well.

08:23

As like -minded Christian men from around the country, Dr. Russell Fuller's ministry can be found at russeltfuller .com.

08:29

The conference is co -hosted by Grace Bible Church and Conversations That Matter. So I'm going through Grace Bible Church, gracebiblenewyork .org.

08:36

The link is in the info section. And if you want to contribute to this retreat, to offsetting some of the costs, to helping pay for Russell Fuller's travel expenses, that kind of thing, if we get enough, we may even get some vouchers out there.

08:53

I know some people who would like to come that just don't have the finances with the price of gas. This would be a benefit to them.

09:00

But you can go to gracebiblenewyork .org. You can mail a check and just put in, itemize it for a retreat.

09:09

Just make sure you put that in there for retreat, for men's retreat. And we'll make sure that that goes to the men's retreat, all of it.

09:18

And you can, I believe, also give online and you can itemize in that if you want. It's much easier to do a check though.

09:24

That would be my recommended way of doing it. And you can just mail it. But anyway, this is coming up and I just want to let everyone know about it too.

09:32

I am trying to figure out, assess how many men are gonna come to this. Now, I'm gonna let you in on something here.

09:38

I did email a number of camps just to see what their capacity was. Because I thought, 60 men, is that?

09:45

60 men, that's what I thought. It may be more. I'm wondering now if it's gonna be more. And I found a camp that has the facilities that will accommodate this.

09:55

And it's a great camp. I've been there before. And it's in Pennsylvania, but it's just kind of south of Binghamton, New York area.

10:01

And I haven't confirmed with them yet, but that's the only camp that's gotten back to me. And so it's looking like it's gonna be kind of south of the

10:08

Binghamton, New York area in Pennsylvania. And there are some wonderful facilities at this camp for outdoor things.

10:15

They have canoes and a lake there. They have a zip line. You can go zip lining.

10:21

They have wonderful bonfire areas, which we'll definitely make use of. I don't even know what else.

10:27

They probably, whatever is associated with the camp. If you want to go fishing or hiking or whatever, you can do that kind of thing.

10:35

And they have really good indoor facilities as well. And the sleeping arrangements are good.

10:42

Well, they're what I'd expect from a camp and what I enjoy when I go to a camp. Bunk style sleeping arrangements is what

10:50

I remember. They may have some nicer rooms for those who want those, but you get to know the men. And that's the point.

10:55

You get to know other men of like mind and faith, and you get to hear from Dr. Russell Fuller. And I think it'll be a very refreshing time.

11:02

I'm gonna be putting together some music for it or finding someone to do that, but I'll definitely be involved with it.

11:08

Meals are provided. I don't have a price yet, but we're still in that phase of trying to figure out what the level of interest is.

11:14

And so if you are interested in coming out, then I would encourage you to go to that link in the info section, click on it, and then

11:22

RSVP. If you're sure that this is just something you know you want to come on that weekend of October 28th through 30th, then you

11:29

RSVP and let us know. The maybes don't count for much on this in my mind just because I don't know.

11:36

But if you know that you can come, then RSVP, let us know. And you will have, if there is a limitation, which there may be, you will definitely have first dibs on that.

11:47

And so anyway, this is gonna all come together in the next week or two, and it'll be fun.

11:53

It'll be fun. I know there's a lot going on this fall, especially if you're in the Northeast. I mean, there's not a lot, or the mid

11:58

Atlantic States. Not a lot of Christian conferences and stuff. This is a good opportunity, a good weekend to come meet some other men, enjoy fellowship.

12:07

And anyway, we'll figure out other stuff too along the way.

12:12

If people are flying in, if there's people who want to fly in, they can let me know. And we'll figure out ways to possibly carpool and all that.

12:20

But that's for further on down the line. Right now, we're just trying to figure out how many people actually are committed to coming to this.

12:29

So check that out. All right, now that's been a lot of announcements. Let's get to some of the meat of this. We're gonna talk about two things, two things that I noticed on Twitter some people sent me.

12:42

And one of them is this issue with Tim Keller. But I wanna start with this interesting, in my opinion, development with Adam Kinzinger.

12:55

Adam Kinzinger, who's a Republican, congressional representative from Illinois, the state of Illinois.

13:02

And there's a lot of praise for Kinzinger out there. There's David French. It's time for more

13:08

GOP members of the House to join Representative Kinzinger. This message is vital.

13:14

And he's retweeting, this is in 2020, Adam Kinzinger. We want every vote counted.

13:20

Yes, every legal vote, of course, but if you have legit concerns about fraud, present evidence and take it to court, stop spreading debunked misinformation.

13:26

This is getting insane. Okay, that's not like a rousing endorsement of Kinzinger, but it shows that there's a connection here.

13:35

Well, it'd be one thing if there's just a connection, but now we start seeing there's more than that. You have Russell Moore.

13:41

Here's my conversation with my friend, Adam Kinzinger, about how Christians should think about Ukraine.

13:48

And how to know when to stay and when to leave, okay? Then you have

13:53

Daniel Darling. Daniel Darling, he really likes

13:59

Representative Kinzinger. And of course, Daniel Darling, we've talked about him before.

14:06

He is, according to his website, an author, pastor, and leader, director of the Land Center of Cultural Engagement at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

14:18

Best -selling author of several books, award -winning writer. He is a columnist for World Magazine, regular contributor to USA Today, and it goes on.

14:28

He's been on MSNBC. And so this is what he has to say about Representative Kinzinger.

14:39

My friend, Representative Kinzinger, is an honorable public servant. And he retweets him, where Kinzinger is saying, you were absolutely correct.

14:50

He's responding to someone. You did act honorably, and while my point remains about the church and the need for pastors to lead, you did not press those stolen election conspiracies.

14:59

That's because he thinks they're stolen election conspiracies. That's right. And he's an honorable public servant, honorable, because he doesn't buy in these election conspiracies.

15:10

And then you have Daniel Darling saying, I miss my friend. Representative Kinzinger in Congress, but I can't wait to see what

15:17

God has for him next. Grateful for the honest leadership of my friend, Kinzinger.

15:24

So there's some connection here. Okay. Now, here's what, in the last two weeks, what has been revealed about Kinzinger on various issues.

15:38

First, we have the, and I'm gonna get to the church stuff in a minute.

15:43

I'm gonna start with the political stuff, because this has just happened like within the last week. There was a bill ensuring a woman's right to reproductive freedom.

15:51

It's called the Women's Right to Reproductive Freedom Act, right, pro -abortion. And it would reaffirm the right for someone seeking an abortion to travel freely across state lines.

16:00

The House passed the measure, 223 to 205, with three Republicans, Adam Kinzinger joining all the

16:07

Democrats in backing the bill. He's one of the Republicans. Interesting. So here he comes out in favor of something that is essentially, well, it's abortion.

16:18

There's just no other way to put it. I mean, this is making it easier for women to obtain abortions.

16:24

Here's another issue, and this is perhaps just as surprising.

16:32

Every House Democrat voted for Representative Nadler's Respect for Marriage Act, which eliminates the

16:38

Defense of Marriage Act. So it enshrines Obergefell, essentially. The Defense of Marriage Act, signed into lobby

16:44

Bill Clinton in the 90s, passed the House with overwhelming support. This time around, the repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act passed 267 to 157, with 47

16:54

Republicans joining the party. 47 Republicans, pretty good, with let's make it so every state has to recognize.

17:06

They have to recognize marriages in other states, including same -sex marriages, quote -unquote.

17:12

The Nadler bill actively goes after more traditional states with the language stating that the bill also repeals and replaces provisions that do not require states to recognize same -sex marriages from other states.

17:22

This has some potential problematic implications down the road. Some of the GOP names are no surprise, like Representative Adam Kingsinger.

17:30

That's right, Representative Liv Cheney. They're both funded by, this is kind of a right -wing source.

17:36

They're both funded by Democrats at this point, et cetera. But anyway, Representative Kingsinger voted for this.

17:43

So on marriage, the two big basic things that evangelicals have supposedly been, they're not willing to budge on, these are the moral issues, he has just now buckled on both, abortion and same -sex marriage.

17:56

This is the guy that is acceptable to some of these elite evangelicals, while Trump is the worst thing ever.

18:03

That's the thing that I want you to focus on, is how they rage against someone like a Donald Trump. And this is the pal, this is the guy, this is a good example.

18:14

Here's a press release, or this is on Representative Kingsinger's website.

18:21

Representative Adam Kingsinger, a vocal critic of former President Trump, said that some churches have changed from institutions that worship

18:27

God to institutions that worshiped Trump. Kingsinger, who is one of the only

18:33

Republicans sitting in the House Select Committee investigating the events of January 6th, tweeted a video clip of remarks that he made at a conference in April on Friday, stating that the

18:40

U .S. is in a leadership crisis. It is said that a faith that makes losing a sin will make cheating a sacrament.

18:49

Leadership crisis has spread from D .C. into our daily lives and even our churches. When leaders refuse to stand up for the truth and reject toxic division, we begin to replace

18:56

God with idols. In the video, the Republican said that government and worship should be separate.

19:03

There are a number of churches that have basically become, you know, from a house of worship of Christ and God to a house of worship of Donald Trump.

19:13

Man, he spoke at an event for The Atlantic titled Disinformation and the Erosion of Democracy.

19:19

And if I look in what I believe is in the New Testament, in the words of Jesus, it waxes, sorry, it was all not about getting involved in government, saying it wasn't about getting involved in government.

19:32

The Illinois Republican argues that the church played a huge role in getting the country to where it is now politically, but that the church would also have a significant leadership role in getting us out of this moment.

19:41

We need pastors, we need priests, we need leaders who are not going to stand in front of a pulpit and say, we welcome, sorry, in front of the pulpit and say, who are going to.

19:52

So this is what pastors should say. We welcome Democrats in this audience as well. And we're not going to sit here and worship

19:58

Donald Trump because he's a very flawed man. In fact, all men are flawed. The Illinois congressman is one of 10 members of his party who voted to impeach

20:06

Trump for increments of insurrection. Okay, so this is a guy, man, great guy.

20:14

Uh, I'm wondering if there's any issues we agree on. I mean, it's amazing he's a Republican, but he is, and a lot of Republicans, unfortunately, are like this, and people need to get involved at the grassroots to primary people like this.

20:25

But this is, in my opinion, this is like what Russell Moore would be like if he was in office. This is the kind of Republican, of course,

20:32

Russell Moore's probably a registered Democrat, I would assume. I could be wrong, but I mean, he has a background in Democrat politics.

20:40

But this is the person that receives praise from some of these evangelical elites while Donald Trump receives castigation.

20:52

So don't listen to these people anymore. Don't listen to these people. If any of you are tempted to listen to any of the,

21:02

Daniel Darling, Russell Moore, David French, just don't. These people don't have credibility.

21:09

I also wanna talk about Tim Keller's third way. I've never counseled, he says, a middle way.

21:14

I've counseled a third way, which is Jesus. Okay, so Jesus is the third way.

21:21

The danger of the middle way is you think the answer is 50 % of each alternative. The third way is distinct from either alternative.

21:27

And I've fleshed this out before. The third way is this, it transcends these other two diametrically opposed positions.

21:35

It's neither capitalism nor communism. It's some kind of in -between thing.

21:41

It portrays itself as moderate, but it's really what it is, is it's a compromise in the circles that would have voted more

21:53

Republican, well, not the Republican like Kingsinger, but Republican in the sense of conservative.

22:00

Now they're being infiltrated with people who think like this, that Jesus is always transcending these things.

22:08

And it's not necessarily a middle way, it's a third way. The way of Jesus is just always different.

22:14

Well, how do you know that? Any other way of Jesus isn't that the landowner should set his own wages, like he said in the parables.

22:22

Government shouldn't be breathing down his neck telling him. So here's what he says to flesh it out.

22:27

Middle ways resemble third ways in some ways. Okay, is the

22:32

Trinity combination of Unitarianism and tri -theism? No, it's a true tertium quid.

22:39

Is what the Bible says about economics a middle way between collectivism and individualism? And he recommends a book,

22:46

Neither Poverty Nor Riches by Craig Blomberg. Now, this is interesting to me.

22:52

So the Trinity, the mystery of the Trinity, which is a theological concept.

23:01

Well, it's the reality of who God is, but it's a theological position that we hold from the

23:10

Bible's teaching, but a mysterious one. It is not one that we can fully grasp or understand the side of heaven.

23:17

It's not a contradiction, it's just not something that we in our limited states can quite conceive of.

23:24

God is, there is one God and yet three persons. And he's saying, well, that's not, you know,

23:35

I guess what he's saying is that's not really a third way, but what he can, or a middle way, but what he does is he compares it to economics, collectivism and individualism.

23:44

That's totally different. One is, there's these human concepts, Unitarianism and Tritheism, three gods, one

23:52

God, okay? And the Trinity isn't either of those things. It's not in between them, it's just, it's neither of those things, all right?

24:03

Economics though is, when

24:08

Keller talks about economics, as I've heard him talk about it a number of times, he thinks, this is his position basically, that we owe the poor as much as we can give away.

24:17

And the mechanism for that giving away could be government redistribution, or it could be charity or a combination of both.

24:23

That's Keller's position basically. He's totally open to forced redistribution. He's contradicted himself on it, but the most recent thing

24:31

I've seen from him is, some people, that's the way that they go about it and that's okay. So it has to be, because there are no other options, either if money is going to be reallocated, either it's freely given, or there's a mechanism by which it's distributed.

24:50

And it's the government doing that. So you're either giving of your own voluntary or it's involuntary.

24:55

Where is there any room for a third option here? Where is the option we haven't thought of that, like the

25:02

Trinity, is Jesus? It's the Jesus option in this. There isn't. It's one or the other.

25:08

And some choices are binary. Not all choices are binary, some are. Now you could say it's either one or the other or a combination.

25:17

Some is involuntarily given, some is voluntarily given. But that isn't like a, that's just a combination of the other two, right?

25:26

It's not a third option. So this is so frustrating because even the two examples he gives here, they don't resemble one another.

25:38

And so it's, I said, someone sent me this and I said, I think Tim Keller should write fortune cookies for a living.

25:46

That just sound, everyone thinks, oh, it's really wise what he says, but it doesn't make hardly any sense to me.

25:55

Now there's another tweet I forgot to put in this slideshow. And I want to, let me see if I can pull it up.

26:01

I wanna read it to you here. I'll read it first and then see if I can pull it up. Reckons it's by an individual named

26:07

Danny Slavich, who I guess teaches at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary as an adjunct.

26:13

And he just tweeted this out. Reconcile, this doesn't really have to do with the other two things that I just thought, he said the quiet part out loud.

26:19

And I thought, yeah, this is what they think. Let me share it with you. Reconcile diversity, one, is as intrinsic to the church as purity, holy.

26:29

In fact, the less homogenous, listen to this, the less homogenous and more diverse a church becomes ethnically, culturally, socioeconomically, generationally, the more holy and pure it becomes.

26:45

Now think through that. The more holy and pure the church becomes, the more holy and pure.

26:57

And by the way, I don't think I showed the Tim Keller screenshots for those watching. So here they are for those who were curious about that.

27:05

I wasn't just making it up. There's the screenshots from Tim Keller. And if you're a patron, this will be available to you.

27:10

You can just download this stuff and you'll have it archived. But, and I'll put the link in the info section, by the way, for people who are interested in that.

27:19

So this was just tweeted out there. And this is incredible to me that it was said out loud, because I've suspected this for a long time.

27:29

The evangelical elites tend to treat it this way, tend to treat ethnic diversity as a sign your church is superior.

27:37

It's more holy, it's more close to God. It's more obedient if they have more diversity at that church.

27:43

You see more black and brown faces in the audience. That shows your church truly diverse.

27:49

What do you do with a community in Iowa where there's hardly anyone, if anyone, in your community that isn't like Dutch or German?

27:58

What do you do in, we were just talking about in Africa.

28:05

And what if you're in Nigeria, in a village somewhere? Is your church, is it impossible for your church?

28:10

Are they going to hit like a barrier or a ceiling of holiness, and they can't go beyond? Because wow, they just don't have the diversity.

28:17

It's all, guess what? It's all Nigerians here. What do we have to import people from other places so that it can be diverse and therefore holy?

28:28

This is not New Testament teaching, not one bit. This isn't biblical. This is the spirit of our age.

28:36

This is social justice crud. And it is coming into places like Southern Seminary, even.

28:45

And we've tracked that in the past, but it's guys like this who bring this stuff in, who just make statements like this.

28:53

So figured I would let you know about that, at least. It came across my email or wherever I obtained it.

29:01

Someone sent it to me right before I started recording. So figured that I would show you that.

29:08

Well, that's all for today. Please check out, if you're interested in the men's retreat, go and, just so I can get a head count, just basically,

29:15

I'm estimating here, but put your name down, and there's gonna be a bunch of people from the church as well.

29:22

So it's, I was guessing around maybe 50, 60 people, but it may be more, and I kind of need to know if it's gonna be more.

29:29

So the link is in the info section. And also, like I said at the beginning, check out