Didaché - A Clarifying Retraction

Justin Peters

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00:05

Well, Steve, brother, thank you for coming back on the program. How are you doing today? I'm good.

00:10

Back from California with our new United States Marine. And it's a joy to have him home.

00:17

That's great. This is your son. This is my son. Yeah. We went to the graduation. Yeah. Tell you what, that was worth being there.

00:28

I bet. Yeah. Proud moment, I'm sure. Well, many thanks to your son for his service.

00:35

Appreciate that. Absolutely. Well, Steve, let's revisit. I had you on my program a few days ago talking about Robert Morris and his rape.

00:48

There's no other appropriate word for that of a child, a girl who was 12 years old at the time that continued for four years.

00:57

And as we were talking about that, you made the point in the program,

01:04

I think on a couple of different occasions, that James Robinson knew of this when he helped, quote unquote, restore

01:15

Robert Morris to ministry. So since that interview was done, though, there's been some new light come out, new information come out.

01:24

And so we want to set the record straight. So I'll leave it with you. Yes, man.

01:30

Thank you, Justin. Thank you for letting me do this. And I do. I want the record straight.

01:36

It's important that what we say we're accountable for. And so I'm going to be accountable for a false statement

01:42

I made. And I want to tell you three things. I want to tell you what I said.

01:48

I want to tell you why I'm retracting it and apologizing and the context of why

01:54

I said what I said. It is important. I believe it's important. And I think hopefully other people will recognize that as well.

02:02

The first thing is what I said. I made a quote, something to the effect of I know for a fact that James Robinson was at that meeting.

02:10

That that sounds like I have not even gone back and checked it. And that statement was wrong.

02:18

It was. That's not true. James Robinson was not at that meeting between Cindy, her father and Robert Morris.

02:24

Now, somebody might have been, but he wasn't. He was not there. That's a fact.

02:30

How do I know this? I know this because Cindy said he wasn't there. And if Cindy said he wasn't there, he wasn't there.

02:46

And so I put that together based upon, oh, 25 years or 30 years, 30 years of history, interacting with Shady Grove and the restoration of Robert Morris and knowing him and finding out that he's that he wasn't there.

03:08

It's incredible shock to me that that detail. I want to apologize for to James.

03:17

James, I apologize. Having said that, that that you were there and you weren't.

03:24

And you know what? I want to be honest. It's a joy to apologize. It's a joy to be accountable for the words that I speak.

03:30

And if something is incorrect, I want to know. In fact, I'd love to be wrong about more of what's been said.

03:38

I wish this was all wrong. I wish I was waking up from a dream and none of this had happened. That would be my preference.

03:44

And so I don't I don't think a Christian has to overly stress. Really having to repent and apologize.

03:55

And that's that's. That's something we shouldn't be slow to do.

04:01

The blood of Jesus has already outed me. It took the slaughter of the son of God to redeem me.

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I don't have anything to hide after that. That's what it took to save me. Amen. Amen.

04:12

And so the context of that, I really want James to hear. And James has my cell number.

04:17

James, I think you have my number. I think Tom B gave you that. And I don't I understand if you don't want to talk.

04:24

It's fine. I would like to personally. But either way, I want to explain the context.

04:32

And so this I'll try not to take up too much time. I guess, Justin, thanks for letting me share. Oh, it's OK. Go ahead.

04:38

There's a video going around right now. And it is a video of a

04:44

Shady Grove elder reunion. It happened at I think it may have been Robert's house. And I don't know where they were.

04:50

But but Olin Griffin was there. Robert and Debbie were there and many elder families.

04:56

You could find it. And in one of the things that's on the video, Jerry Benjamin is talking.

05:02

And Jerry says this is not a quote, but she says something to the effect of all my heroes are in this room.

05:11

And she points into all the people that are there. And I saw that video. And I was like,

05:17

I understand completely what she's saying, because all my former heroes are in that room.

05:23

And and those were the men and the women that Kelly and I looked up to, you know, in a way that that almost transcended respect.

05:32

It was just. These were the people who were our mentors, our teachers.

05:39

They were our elders and the elders wives. And that love is not waning.

05:44

It's never waning. It's not cheap and it's not going away. Yeah, I understand what she meant. And the reason why

05:50

I'm saying that is that when you talk about the elders that were in that room being heroes,

05:56

James Robinson transcended, in my mind, the heroes that were in that room.

06:05

He was bigger than life. Some of that goes back to my past.

06:11

I was given a book called Thank God I'm Free that James wrote. I think I might have been 20 years old because it was before I went to Shady Grove.

06:21

Someone gave it to me when I was still in Waco. And I read that book. It had tremendous impact on my life.

06:29

And I had high respect for him. So when I went to Shady Grove. I learned that James had a similar background as I had in my upbringing with being removed from my home by Child Protective Services.

06:46

And I just thought, this guy, this guy, I can relate to this man. And when

06:52

I heard that he had restored Robert, that he had not just kicked him to the curb, but loved him and wanted to see him restored.

07:03

That to me was like not wanting to throw somebody in the trash.

07:08

And I just thought, this guy, bigger than life. And so all the stories

07:13

I ever heard, I promise you, they were all good. I never heard one negative thing about James Robinson's character.

07:21

Not one thing. It was always how he came to Robert's aid. He ran to meet him there.

07:28

James had let him work for him. And he had preached with James. They were kind of an older and a younger team.

07:36

And then when Robert fell in ministry, he brought him to Olin and handed him off for restoration.

07:46

It was always that James was right in the middle of it. Robert told me stories like this. Robert told me stories of how

07:53

James loved him unconditionally, but spoke really hard truth to him.

07:59

Robert respected him so much that he named his second son after him. I don't know if you know that.

08:04

James Morris is named after James Robinson. I don't know what higher respect you could give to somebody.

08:14

And so here's the souring figure. And to me, that timeline was one -to -one.

08:22

Robert falls. James comes running to the rescue like a white knight and brings him to someone who can pastor him through.

08:30

That's Olin Griffin at a safe place at Shady Grove. So you see it that way.

08:36

And I have that confirmed. Actually, I had an experience. I really only had one interaction with James Robinson.

08:44

And it was, I don't even know if James will remember this. James, we were, we ended up not playing golf together, but we were at Cowboy Golf Club.

08:55

And I think it's right behind technically. And our group was ahead of his group and we were slow.

09:01

So his group caught up and the two groups ended up talking together. And I'm standing there next to the car.

09:09

James is sitting in the car and there's a couple of men, probably three or four men standing around. And well, before that,

09:16

I had gone up to James and I thanked him for his book. I told him it made an impact on my life when we were younger. You understand, we're working where you're stopping at a golf hole and then you can talk a little bit and then everybody moves on.

09:25

And at this particular golf hole, a topic came up related to John MacArthur.

09:34

And I don't know if James will remember this. I was literally there and I know this for a fact. A topic came up related to John MacArthur.

09:42

And James made some comments that he understood to be true. He just did it. And he understood to be true.

09:48

He was mistaken. And what I said, I said right in front of other guys, and I wasn't rude to him because I had the highest respect.

09:54

I said, actually, I said, I don't know what I called him. I don't think I just referred to him as James.

10:01

I probably said Mr. Robinson. I said, actually, this. And I gave him just some clarity on what actually was a motive and what transpired.

10:13

And I didn't know what to expect. James is a big guy and he's bigger in person.

10:18

He has a very immense presence. And I'm not saying that in a bad way. And so I said this to him and literally this is what happened.

10:28

I gave him what was in some sense a correction. He looks at me and he looks me right in the eye and he goes, oh, okay.

10:39

Just like that. And that was that. And everything I'd ever thought about his character was dynamically confirmed, at least in my eyes, because what he did was he listened to this way younger man, give him a correction.

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And he just went, okay. And I thought, well, there it is. He wants what's true. And I don't know.

11:02

I saw humility in it and I saw a love for the truth. And so when all this happened, those are the stories that come falling down on you because I could have said

11:13

I had the same respect for Robert, too. And so when

11:20

I'm putting James, as a matter of fact, in my heart and in my mind, when I'm putting him in that moment, in that meeting, it's synonymous.

11:30

It was synonymous to me as if I would have told you that Washington crossed the Delaware. I wasn't there.

11:36

I don't know. But I've been taught by credible people that Washington crossed the

11:41

Delaware. And later on, we come up with a historic document that says Washington was in Dallas when the

11:47

Delaware was crossed. I would say I was mistaken.

11:53

That was wrong. I believed the pictures that were painted for me. And there are men who are going to see this video, and they know who they are, and they painted that picture, and they know that they did.

12:05

Yeah. And they get to deal with their own conscience on that deal. Yeah. So that's how that went.

12:13

I apologize for that. I apologize for that detail. Yeah, for that detail.

12:21

For that detail. Absolutely, I do. And I'm grateful for the way that things are further being investigated.

12:30

I feel like a burden is on my heart now for women who have been abused like that. We have imported the worst thing you can have from the world, and I'm glad that's being outed.

12:40

I'm glad there are people on these things that are investigating in totality.

12:45

Just to name three, number one would be Dee Parsons. And if you want to follow her, it's at wartwatch on X.

12:55

And thank you, Dee, for the work you're putting in. Amy Smith, tremendous testimony of her own sexual abuse and the rejection she's faced in taking a stand for it.

13:09

I can tell you in just a few days the assault that's come against me, I'm like, okay, I respect these women because they've been putting up with this far longer than I will and getting worse.

13:19

Amy Smith is at Watch Keep on X. And also Wade Burleson.

13:25

Wade Burleson is at Wade underscore Burleson. If you follow him on X, there's good information on there.

13:33

And I think these are people that are truly looking to know what the facts are. And hopefully if they report wrong facts, they would have the integrity to say that and the boldness to take a stand when they are sure.

13:47

That's what I'm hoping to do. And so, Justin, I appreciate you, brother.

13:53

Thanks for letting me do that. And I hope in no way this reflects upon you in a negative light.

13:59

I know you trusted me to make factual statements, and that one was not. Yeah. Well, I appreciate it, brother.

14:07

I appreciate you coming on and setting the record straight. And we both wanted to do that. So once it was brought to our attention, we both wanted to do it.

14:16

Absolutely, you did. Yeah. And, you know, there are other concerns, big -time concerns, serious concerns that I have with James Robison and his theology.

14:31

And even going back to this issue, there was a statement, Steve, I'm sure you've seen it, that Life Outreach, of course, that's

14:37

James Robison's ministry, put out on June 18th of this year, of course.

14:43

And I'm looking at it right here. It's a statement about Robert Morris. It says,

14:49

In the late 80s, Robert Morris joined James Robison Evangelistic Association as the morning supervisor in the call center.

14:57

His role included overseeing the daily administrative task of the call center. During his appointment at JREA, Robert Morris' duties did not include public speaking, nor was

15:09

James Robison involved in professional counseling or formal restoration to ministry for Robert Morris.

15:17

But that statement is not true, Steve. When they say that Robert Morris' duties did not include public speaking, yes, they did, because I believe it was

15:29

Amy Smith, actually. You mentioned her. I think it was Amy Smith that put up these newspaper clippings of talking about how

15:37

Robert Morris, while an employee of the James Robison Evangelistic Association, is preaching revivals in Vicksburg, Mississippi, my hometown, actually.

15:47

When it gave the address, I was like, Oh, I know where that is. In 1988. So this was...

15:56

Yeah, I don't understand that letter. And I'll leave it at that, that I don't understand it because I was always told.

16:05

Again, here I am. I'm not going to make a statement of fact, but I can tell you that I can make this statement of fact.

16:12

I was always told Robert took a full two years off, that he did not do any ministry.

16:20

He did work at James Robison. I forget what it was called then.

16:27

I don't know if it was Life Today. Evangelistic Association, I think. Okay. Yeah.

16:33

And that he did something with the phone systems. Yeah. So I don't know how to square that.

16:39

And I'm not going to research it and try to whittle that down. I think there's professionals out there doing that.

16:46

And you know what? I think they're going to do a good job because I think God's in this. Yeah. And if James has nothing to worry about,

16:56

James has nothing to worry about. But there won't be more for me. Yeah. Because I feel like that I was too close to it, and I was giving other people's stories.

17:09

Again, I'll say it, James, you have my phone number if you want it from Tom. And I would welcome to talk to you.

17:16

Absolutely. Right. But I don't see how those – I don't personally see how that letter, which

17:23

I did read, and the receipts that Amy's bringing,

17:31

I don't understand it. I'm just going to say I don't understand it. I don't either. I don't see how that statement that was put out by Life Outreach June 18th and these newspaper clippings, they can't both be true.

17:46

They're mutually exclusive. It's hard for both of them to be true. They can't both be true. Yeah. Theologically speaking with James Robison, I mean,

17:55

I know a little – I've listened to him a fair amount, and I've watched some of his programs.

18:00

I know kind of his general testimony. He used to be Southern Baptist and was kind of known as kind of a firebrand

18:06

Southern Baptist preacher, calling out sin. And then he claims he had this deliverance, that he had some demons extricated from himself that delivered him of anger and lust and all these other kind of things.

18:21

And then all of a sudden after that, he became much more ecumenical. And James Robison is very ecumenical now to the point that he affirms

18:34

Roman Catholics as Christians, brothers in Christ, had a meeting with some other well -known charismatic figures, with Pope Francis 10 years ago actually.

18:45

Pope Francis at the time was the new pope. And affirms

18:50

Roman Catholic – has had Jonathan Morris as a guest on his program, Life Today, more than once.

18:58

I don't know how many times. But Father Jonathan Morris, Roman Catholic, and the

19:03

Robisons, James and Betty Robison, are good close personal friends with Kenneth Copeland.

19:09

So, once again, tonight, I am introducing to you, to this platform, my dear covenant brother,

19:21

James Robison. Praise God, hallelujah. Amen.

19:30

Thank you. I mean,

19:38

I'll speak for myself here, Steve. I don't think you would disagree. But if you're close personal friends with someone as dark and sinister as Kenneth Copeland, who is one of the most prolific false prophets and egregious heretics, and has done more to exploit the poor and the sick than just about anybody else under the guise of Christianity, if you're friends with someone like that, then

20:10

I got issues with you. So, I'll leave it at that.

20:17

Yeah, I think we've both fulfilled what I think is a requirement for us to make something right.

20:25

And, you know, you're going to post this. I'm going to pin it to my Twitter. And if James wants to call and wants to talk,

20:33

I'm going to talk to him. But I'm going to talk to him. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

20:39

Because somebody was there. Yeah. But who was it? And why does it matter?

20:44

Why does it matter? Because they contributed to what

20:50

Cindy's gone through. Right. And I don't want to lose sight of that.

20:56

I don't want us to lose sight of the fact that a child was molested for four and a half years.

21:04

Yes. And it was not just the man who did it who knew about it.

21:11

Right. After the fact. That was... Yeah.

21:18

Yeah. It wasn't just Robert Morrison knew about it. No, it wasn't.

21:25

And so the disappointment that people feel right now is a testimony to the love that they had.

21:37

And to the unity that we felt. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely.

21:43

Because it felt like Camelot back then, back in the day. It felt like we were truly part of something special and unique relationally and other.

21:53

And many have never experienced that again. I can honestly say

22:00

I get to find that again. And it's wonderful. But to see the people that you respected that way.

22:10

Yeah. I feel sorry for the Shady Grovers and for the Gatewayers that are grieving the loss of NMCO4 and what they...

22:18

Yeah. You know, and Steve, we said in our last program together, this would be a good place to end.

22:25

We know that there are a lot of hurting, disappointed, shell shocked, maybe even people going to Gateway who were very sincere and really want to worship the

22:40

Lord, want to have a good church. And we encourage them to find a good church.

22:46

Gateway is not. It never was. You can't have the associations, the endorsements that they, you know,

22:55

Todd White, Kenneth Copeland. You know, you can't be in those theological circles and it be a good church.

23:03

It's just not. So, but there are good churches in the DFW area. Yours is one of them, a little far to drive maybe if you're living in South Lake.

23:12

But there's, you know, Sherman Bible Church. There's Countryside Bible Church.

23:19

There's others. And I'll put a link down below in the description. So. And wherever Steve Lawson is there in Arlington, I can't remember the name of it.

23:28

I mean, yeah. Yeah. That's. Yeah. There's options.

23:34

There's options in the DFW area. There's options. And if people need help on that, I mean, Sherman Bible is willing to help.

23:41

Yes. So, dear ones, I'll put the links down below in the description. And this is not exhaustive. I'm sure there are other good churches as well.

23:49

But here's just a few options for you in the DFW area if that's where you are. So, Steve, brother, thank you so much for doing this.

23:57

Thank you for, you know, setting the record straight, doing the right thing. And, yeah, making it right.

24:05

So we appreciate it, brother. Thank you. Thank you for letting me. I appreciate that. Yeah, absolutely.

24:12

OK, dear ones, until our next time together, may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of his