F4F | John Gray Says Studying Theology is Asinine

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This episode is sponsored by the Word of the Lord endures forever Welcome to another installment of fighting for the faith.

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My name is Chris Roseboro. I am your servant in Jesus Christ This is the channel that compares what people are saying in the name of God to the

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Word of God now a little bit of a note within the charismatic Pentecostal NAR churches and even in the

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Word of Faith and other places that are mildly charismatic there is legitimately an aversion to a suspicion of a denigrating of people who legitimately study

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God's Word and especially pastors who Open up the biblical text and they study theology and doctrine and they make sure that they understand

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What the passage means in the original languages and things like this. There is an absolute Snarkiness and contempt for men who do what the scripture tells them to do when it comes to teaching

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God's Word and Studying and showing themselves approved. We'll actually look at that text from 2nd Timothy shortly here in a minute

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But what we're gonna do today I Feel like I'm taking one for the team is the best way

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I can put it because from time to time I Head over to John Gray's relentless

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Church and I listen to his sermons and it is it is like I can feel the brain cells dying in my head as As I work my way through some of his stuff and I would note if you don't know his history

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Go back into the audio podcast of fighting for the faith into our archives and type in John Gray And you will find that it was

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Joel Osteen that released the John Gray virus On the body of Christ. I I wish

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I was making that up I'm not it is Joel Osteen who really is responsible for bringing this man into the church and touting him as a bona fide

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Church leader who hears from God kind of stuff and oh my goodness He has been a train wreck from day one when

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I first heard him preaching for Joel Osteen over there at Lakewood so what we're gonna do today, let's

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Whirl up the desktop and yeah, I wish I was there right now That's Crescent Head and on the the coast of Australia halfway between Sydney and Brisbane and I enjoyed taking that photo because I Really kind of worked the composition where I was able to use this the rocks as leading lines to kind of bring your eye in there

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But alas, that's not why we're here Does it seem like I'm procrastinating

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Yeah, I am So you'll note that today's episode is definitely going to be sponsored by the

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Word of the Lord endures forever We'll use that as a counter anchor for the nonsense that we're gonna hear

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So we're heading over to relentless church John Gray is the vision casting leader and I've fast -forwarded to kind of help you understand the kind of the core problem here and we're going to hear

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John Gray talking down those who study theology and and he holds himself up as Really what it is that God is looking for and and so these these are words that he's about to eat

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I'll serve it to him in spoon -sized pieces, but Here we go.

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It'll be completely packed. I said God, what's up? He said everybody don't want me Some people want the

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God they made All right. So right now he's making a point and that point is that people they don't want the true

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God They want a God of their own making that's idolatry. So he understands the concept of idolatry at least in part

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So we continue not the God who is What do you think happened when

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Moses went up the mountain what did they do they made a God that they could touch What is with all the theatrics here,

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I mean Is is he having convulsions does he have

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Tourette's what's going on here a lot of people see God made us in his image and Now we want to make God in our image But God will not be conformed and constrained to your limited finite ability and capacity

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You minimize him the moment you try to put your hands on him That's why the idea of theology or the study of God is so asinine and sophomoric to me the pride to think that God would sit

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In your Petri dish to be observed by you and to be dissected by you is foolish That's why God takes guys like me with a premium high school diploma and a little bit of college and then gives me revelation knowledge

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Which means your PhD don't mean nothing if you ain't got the egg the OIL So studying theology according to John Gray is asinine

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Is it now that's and and apparently the only reason why anyone would study theology is

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Because they want to put God in a Petri dish. I Think that there's a more than one reason why people would study theology and there's a biblical reason to do so So let's take a look at a biblical text.

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Shall we? You can tell I just I'm having a hard time keeping from laughing because this is so absurd

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Paul the Apostle Paul writing to Timothy last letter of his life before he's gonna have his head taken off his shoulders by a

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Roman Soldier and a sword and his gladius. So here's what Paul writes to young pastor

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Timothy rum remind them of these things I charge them before God not to quarrel about words which does no good but only ruins the hearers do your best to present yourself to God as One approved a worker who has no need to be ashamed

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Rightly handling or you can say dividing the word of truth

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But avoid irreverent babble for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness

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I wonder if we're gonna hear some irreverent babble from John Gray today and and their talk will spread like gangrene

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Among them are Hymenaeus and Philae philatess who have swerved from the truth

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Saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some but God's firm foundation stands

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Bearing the seal the Lord knows those who are his and let everyone who names the name of the

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Lord depart from iniquity So you're gonna know Maybe just maybe the reason why

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I decided to study theology and doctrine and comparative religion and cult apologetics and things like this is because God's Word says study show yourself approved as a work for a workman who need not blush with embarrassment

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Who can rightly handle the word of truth? Hmm. So I don't think the study of theology is asinine.

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I think it's commanded by God For everybody who would aspire to the office of pastor and I would remind you, you know

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If you want to talk about qualifications for a pastor Titus chapter 1 is my go -to

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Text Paul says to pass to Titus. He says this is why I left you in Crete so that you might

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Might put what remained in order and appoint elders in every town as I have directed you if anyone is above reproach

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And I would say John Gray isn't Just just look up John Gray scandal

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Google look at the Christian News and Christian Post reports regarding John Gray and Ask yourself if he's qualified Biblically be a pastor if anyone is the above reproach husband of one wife his children are believers not open to the charge of debauchery

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Or in subordination for an overseer as God Stewart must be above reproach He must not be arrogant or quick -tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain

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But hospitable a lover of good self -controlled upright wholly indisciplined He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught that requires studying right so that he may be able to give instruction sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who

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Contradicted for there are many who are insubordinate empty talkers deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party

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They must be silenced since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach

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One of the Cretans a prophet of their own said Cretans are always liars and evil beasts and lazy gluttons. This is true

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Therefore rebuke them sharply that they may be sound in the faith Not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth

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Pretty straightforward stuff. So you'll note that if you were to read the New Testament all but one book of the

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New Testament Warns us about false teachers and false prophets all but one And that one book is

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Philemon the rest They all warn us against false teachers false prophets false

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Apostles false Christ the false Do you false everything and and so I would note? The the prescription given by God the

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Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul in the Pauline pastoral epistles is to actually study theology to study doctrine to study and show yourself approved to study the

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Word of God devote yourself to preaching it and Teaching it and learning how to accurately handle it and refuting those who contradict the

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Bible That's what pastors are called to do But John Gray, he thinks that the study of theology is asinine.

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Hang on a second here. Let me let me let me see if I Can let's yeah, let's see here and just come back and right here.

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Here we go Listen again and a lot of people see God made us in his image and now we want to make God in our image

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But God will not be conformed and constrained to your limited finite ability and capacity you minimize him the moment you try to put your

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Hands on him. That's why the idea of theology or the study of God is so asinine and sophomoric to me the

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Like I said, these words are gonna come back to bite him he's gonna eat these words I'll help him. I'll feed them to him

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To think that God would sit in your Petri dish to be observed by you and to be dissected by you is foolish

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That's why God takes guys like me with a premium high school diploma and a little bit of college and then gives me revelation knowledge

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Which means your PhD don't mean nothing if you ain't got the egg the OIL Now, I don't have a

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PhD and I only use oil on my beard just to saying so Okay, so the study of theology is asinine to him

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Let's see how he handles some biblical text in the same sermon. Shall we I will find out, you know

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Just how much oil he has, you know from the Holy Spirit because he has he has revelation knowledge

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Don't you know and studying theology and studying doctrine and learning the biblical languages and stuff like that?

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That's just asinine to him, you know, cuz yeah, that's putting God in a Petri dish. It's idolatry

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Is it though is it and you get a note here? This is a common thread within many charismatic churches this idea

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We don't need to study the way we have the Holy Spirit We get to wreck revelation from God you people who study you cannot be trusted.

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Oh, you have the spirit of religion Yeah, you are listening to a Jezebel spirit and weird things like this, right?

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so at the beginning of this sermon the same sermon he's gonna read out a portion of The book of Genesis chapter 3, let's see what he does with it

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And so now we're gonna continue with part 3 and here we're in Genesis 3 in the first verse

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I'm reading from the New King James Version Okay Now the service no fault with that I'm gonna turn off the closed caption because you know

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He has the crawl underneath that shows us what he's reading from it was more cunning than any beast of the field

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Which the Lord God had made and he said to the woman has God indeed said you shall not eat of Every tree of the garden and the woman said to the serpent we may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden

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But of the fruit of the tree, which is in the midst of the garden God has said you shall not eat it nor shall you touch it lest you die

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Then the serpent said to the woman you will not surely die liar For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God Knowing good and evil

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So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food that it was pleasant to the eyes and a tree Desirable to make one wise she took of its fruit and ate she also gave to her husband with her and he ate

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Then the eyes of both of them were opened and they knew that they were naked and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves

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Coverings and they heard here. Here's where I want you to catch this So far so good he was just reading the biblical text

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This we're about ready to jump the tracks and head down into a ravine and it's gonna be a spectacular train wreck

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Let me just back it up. But here we go. Again elves coverings they heard here here's where I want you to catch this and They heard the sound of the

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Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day Stay right there and they heard the sound of the

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Lord God Walking the sound everybody say the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the

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Lord the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden now go back to Genesis 3 and 8 and and now give that to me

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Angela in the King James tell somebody Okay, we got a problem Here's the problem

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He's going to try to cross references to try to get at a deeper meaning to it By appealing to the

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King James Bible And it boy is he gonna mess things up here's the issue

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Genesis better sheet. That's that's name in Hebrew was written in Hebrew you should be checking the original languages and I'm gonna just put it out there pastors need to have studied and Continue to study the original language of the

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Bible because there are a lot of things that are lost in Translation and nuances that are that are hard to catch in English And you need to be able to be conversant with the scriptures in the original languages

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That's part of studying and showing yourself approved kind of stuff that which does require you to study

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Theology which he thinks is asinine. So he's going to pull up the King James Version Let's let's see if we can get ahead of him a little bit though.

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Let's see here. I want to keep that one So I need a Hebrew text that I can get to quickly.

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Let's go here. We'll go to jet. We're gonna go to What where was

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I Losing my train of thought here. So I know he's going to Genesis but hang on a second here

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I'll let him spin this out Well, I remember what it where what the point I was making as I get older my photographic memory is turning into a faded

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Polaroid So, let's see what he's doing. I need you to catch this. Ah, that's what we're gonna do

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We're gonna take a look at it in the King James. All right, so Genesis chapter 3

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Genesis chapter 3. Yeah, that's right. I had a senior moment right there on camera. Can you believe it? Yeah, it's gonna get worse as I get older.

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Just watch Okay Got a lot on my mind. All right, so Genesis chapter 3 verse 5 we're gonna get ahead of him for doth for Okay, let's see.

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Okay. So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food. Okay the Lord Okay, so they heard here it is.

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They heard the voice of the Lord God Walking in the garden in the cool of the day.

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All right, so he's going to appeal to the King James here and they heard the voice of the

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Lord God walking in the cool of the day and He's going to show Definitively, he doesn't know

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Hebrew just doesn't know it at all. So Because watch what he does with this.

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This is going to be a train wreck And this is what happens when you refuse to study theology, which you think is asinine, but he was critical

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I'll let you sit down in just a moment. I want you to catch this in the King James Are they able to do it quickly?

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They're not able to do it quickly. All right here I'm going to read it in the King. There it is in the King James and No, that's still the same thing.

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That ain't it. They don't have it. That's all I needed to know. Okay, so It says in Genesis 3 and 8

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I need everybody to catch this in the they got it Watch this and they heard the voice of the

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Lord God the voice of the Lord God Walking in the garden his voice was walking

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In the garden in the cool of the day and Adam it is why oh See, this is what happens when you don't study theology themselves from the presence of the

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Lord amongst the trees of the garden now watch The point he's gonna make and they heard say they heard They heard the voice of the

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Lord. Why it didn't say he was speaking He didn't even say anything but his voice had presence and they heard it

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I already sensed the Holy Spirit The really the

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Holy Spirit is is on you while you're twisting his bit his text I don't think so.

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They didn't it doesn't say and the Lord God was walking his voice They heard his voice walk

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All right Let's just do a little bit of Hebrew. Shall we by the way?

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I need to say this to John at a Loma Vena, but eat you do not know

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Hebrew Okay, you don't understand it at all This is so bad.

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So they heard Okay, so they heard the coal the sound.

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Okay, so if we were to just kind of Translate this out. Yeah. Yeah. Yes Sorry, yes.

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Mew F coal Yahweh Elohim And then we've got myth myth mytholoque

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Beth gum La la ruach ha yum.

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All right, so they they heard the sound Coal can mean sound

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Okay, they heard the sound of Yahweh Elohim walking in the garden in the cool of the day

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I know that the the translators of the KJV chose voice

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But that's probably not a good translation Okay, unless you know,

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God was talking, you know, and they heard him talking or singing or something It does it's just coal can be sound and so here you've got him completely making a point

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That just like if you just read it in a good modern translation, or if you can read

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Hebrew you'd recognize. Oh, okay So what's the point that he's gonna make with this because he thinks he's really found something profound and he hasn't

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Because he doesn't study theology because that's asinine, you know, so listen again.

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I already sensed the Holy Spirit They did it doesn't say and the Lord God was walking his voice

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They heard his voice walk. No, they heard the sound of the

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Lord God The sound of God obviously was making sound when he was walking in the

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Ruach Hayom the cool of the day first note of the day

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God's voice walks No it Doesn't No, it doesn't you don't know

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Hebrew you haven't This is what happens when you think that studying theology is asinine.

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You say asinine things like this Thank you. I just needed one person to catch what

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I'm trying to do here. And so The title of this message is Genesis mindset part 3 the voice of God you can be seated

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That was a whole lot of nothing Let's let's fast -forward just a little bit but before we do that Let me remind you that Our sponsor for today's episode of fighting for the faith is the

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Word of the Lord endures Forever if you are looking for a podcast not a long one a short one that Daily walks you through entire sections

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Narratives entire books of the Bible and by a man who actually has get this

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Studied theology. Oh, how asinine is that? This is the podcast you want the

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Word of the Lord endures forever I love this podcast. This podcast is brilliant and the and pastor

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Will Whedon He knows what he's talking about. He knows his biblical languages. He's studied and showed himself approved

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He knows how to connect all these biblical texts regardless of his is in the Old Testament New Testament Connect it back to Christ and he knows his patristics he knows the church fathers and how the church has always understood these texts and is

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Conversing in all of this and all of that gets condensed down into a daily podcast of less than 15

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Minutes and you'll love it It'll feed your soul and you will have a deeper understanding and appreciation for the biblical text just head to the word endures org and you will be inoculated from the

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John, gray virus that has been sent out to infect the the body of Christ.

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Thank you Joel Osteen, but again the word endures org you will thank me

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This is a wonderful resource and you can listen to it while you're jogging while you're commuting and it's such a short podcast

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You can listen to it while you're on your way to the grocery store It's one of these beautiful wonderful things and it's just a great resource again the word endures org so Let's Continue on Shall we

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I fast -forwarded just a little bit here and let's see where it goes next Who's ready for this word?

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All right, so everybody say think like God We know it went left right here.

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By the way that whole repeat after me thing That's a thought -stopping technique designed to turn off your critical thinking skills.

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This is when it went left And we know what happened after this, but I want to stay right here cuz I'm gonna talk about the voice of God But I need to give you some revelation

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Very important because there's some things you need to know Because most people have an adversarial relationship with who they think

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God is God has been portrayed as angry vicious Distant violent waiting in heaven for the moment you mess up to punish you

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But scripture paints the true picture of an eternal love from an awesome father

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Now it's true. The scripture do do paint The the picture of God's love that's insufficient though Because God also threatens us with his wrath and his judgment if we persist in sin and unbelief and iniquity and so we are instead called to repent of our sin to cry out to God to forgive us and Have confidence that Christ is bled and died for our sins.

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It's called faith, by the way So, okay. I mean I see the point he's making here who only wants the best for you

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And when you blow it, he's already got a plan that he had in place to redeem you Is there anybody grateful that no matter how bad you've blown it?

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I've blown it He has a plan through the blood to redeem you and bring you back if you fall

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What's the plan through the blood? Why don't you give us some details? You know, the gospel itself would be

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Relevant to plug in here that Christ died for all of our sins You you might even mention his resurrection and ascension

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But the idea here this is just mentioning the blood isn't the same as actually preaching the gospel

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Maybe open up Isaiah 53 that he was pierced for our transgressions bruised for our iniquities the chastisement that brought us peace was upon him things like this and so yes

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God did plan to Redeem us and before Christ is crucified before the foundations of the earth.

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So yeah So why don't you you know, give us those details here in faith at the foot of the cross?

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I feel the power of the Holy Spirit giving me the utterance to speak what I'm speaking Yeah See he was this close.

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It was just this close to actually Making this about Jesus, but no he had to go and blow it and I I feel the

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Holy Ghost On me to giving me utterance to speak what I'm speaking. You're blaming this on the

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Holy Spirit That's blasphemy, sir Cuz the truth is we're dust after all

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Tell somebody you look dusty Now it's true God made us from the dust remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return this is true

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Somebody got offended for it. No, I'm not you don't even know me. What don't say that to me. That's rude Why don't you put the theatrics away and just stick to the text and like exegete it properly

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Is that a Rolex? We continue JC said what get that You need to get that dirt off your shoulders go ahead and wipe somebody's shoulder off gone does your shoulder off Ladies is crazy baby gone.

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That's just showed us out What on earth does this have to do with Genesis? Yeah, I know it's not the words

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I don't want to say the words. I know the words cuz they're naughty Somebody say

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We were created from what dust Yeah So let's let's rehash real quick.

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So the Bible says This is the history of the heavens and the earth in the day. They were created When God created the heavens and the earth before there was any tree any herb anything grew because God had not caused it to rain

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And there was no man to till the ground Okay, that's Genesis 2 which means

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God doesn't prepare anything unless there's a man or a woman who can steward it Ah How do you figure how did you jump that chasm of logic to end up with that conclusion

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But the Bible says a oh I know he hasn't studied theology that's asinine You know missed with up from under the ground to water the face of the earth

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Watch the next thing and God for man of the dust of the ground, right?

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And breathe into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being is that not the word? So I kept study.

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Yes. Yes. Hang on a second. What did he what did he says? So I kept studying you studied

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Did you now? He's into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being is that not the word?

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So I kept studying and this is super important I'm gonna say it again because I need everybody to hear this a Mist went up from under the ground.

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Here is the definition for the word dust in that Scripture you read Huh, this is so painful

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Genesis to Genesis to okay. These are the generations when no

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Bush. Okay, and miss was going up the Lord God formed the man from the That is afar.

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That is the Hebrew word afar. All right, and you know what it means It means dust

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It's like, you know, like like if I triple click on this Dry earth dust

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Dry loose earth throw thrown a malice a sign of grief loose earth, right?

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Okay, so that's what this means Okay Here we go from a man who has not studied

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Hebrew. I thought low movie never eat. He does not know Hebrew He doesn't understand it Let's continue.

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I Was waiting for you to say yes, you read okay, so this is the How do you say this it's it's off our it means it's dust or powder dust and powder

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This is the residue that was left over once the mist came up and watered the face of the earth

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So whatever What The the mist was not like the manna dudes you're just making this up Hang on a second here

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Let's read the text when no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small

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Plant of the field had yet sprung up for Yahweh Elohim had not caused it to rain on The land and there was no man to work the ground and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground then

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Yahweh Elohim Formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life

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Okay, that's all the text says and you're gonna note He's engaging in this scripture twisting technique called ice of Jesus watch what he does here

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Left over once the mist came up and watered the face of the earth. So whatever the water did not touch

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Was dust it had no value. Everybody say no value. I've said this I want you to get this in your spirit

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The dust that remained was the stuff that the water did not touch What was left is is useless

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After God created everything. He said let us make man in our image according to our likeness and that what it said What did

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God choose to make us from not just dust but what was left over This is like the theatrics of like Wrestling, I mean it just like this is you think you think that's a mic drop moment dude this whole thing's cap

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It's us. I made us from leftovers. Don't you ever look at leftovers the same way again?

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Don't ever dismiss leftovers. The text doesn't say man is from leftovers. He made us from the dust of the

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This is making stuff up see this is what happens when you think that studying theology is asinine

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Told you I'd make him eat these words and be careful who you leave behind and who you think has been left by God Because God breathes into leftovers

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The word off our means dust or powder. There is no moisture attached to that the

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Hebrew for it dust or powder There's no water. So it's not mud. It's not easily formed.

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It's dust. It has no value The Oh say it again. The only value that dust has is

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God breathed into it Rashad I wish they would hear me and wake up in this place You don't have value other than the fact that God breathed into you

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Granted That's a that's a valid That's a valid point from the text but not a valid point from the way you twisted the text

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Huh? This is so hard So stop walking around in pride like you are the best thing God ever did

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Because if he takes his breath back you'll fall straight back to the ground because you and I are nothing but dust without his breath

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Okay. I mean it's not a bad point. It's just how he got there is

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Totally dubious totally sus 100 % cap So when

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Alicia said I got his breath in my lungs, that was a prophetic declaration of what I'm saying right now

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He breathed into what was left over and made a son Watch this.

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Are you passing a kidney stone? What was that? Do we need to call 9 -1 -1 at the fall of man? God starts he cursed the serpent.

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Yeah What did he say to the serpent cursed are you above all the beasts of the field and on your belly? You shall go and you shall eat dust all the days of your life.

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Here's the thing about you and I we were created from dust Then he breathed into us, but in creating us he gave us a will which means we can choose to obey or not

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But anything in us that is not submitted to the word is dusty Did you learn how to twist this the

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Bible this way from Joel Osteen or were you teaching him I'm curious how that relationship worked

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Tell somebody are you dusty? Here's what you need to know because some of you like the devil keep messing with me,

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I don't understand Could it be that you're dusty? And you like you bought you trying to cast out demons

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But the devil is legally able to feed on anything in your life That is dusty because God said you shall eat dust all the days of your life.

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So What oh

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My goodness see this is what happens when you don't study theology you think studying theology is asinine

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My goodness, so So when God Curses the serpent and says the serpent will eat dust

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That means that God was saying that the serpent has legal authority Over you if you're doing if you're sinning and stuff and you have a dusty life

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Good grief That is the It is the most asinine

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Thing I've ever heard. In fact, it's even more asinine than saying that it's asinine to study theology

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This is asininity at an all -time high. You've now broken the world record for asininity

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Hear this again. Oh, this is so bad. Holy smoke Could it be that you're dusty?

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And you like you bought you trying to cast out demons But the devil is legally able to feed on anything in your life.

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That is dusty because God said So eat dust all the days of your life

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So anything in your life that is not submitted to the water of the word the enemy has legal right to feed on it until You submit it

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And they're all going yeah This is one lady the audience is gonna stand up giving us give him a standing over this nonsense.

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He ain't saying anything This is not what Jesus three teaches at all and this again this is what happens when you think studying theology is asinine and you have the oil of anointing upon you and you are

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You you're the revelation knowledge that God the Holy Spirit gives you surpasses that of anybody who's ever studied theology and put

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God into a Petri dish and And all that kind of nonsense again, this is a major Theme within many charismatic churches, you know why it is.

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It's actually quite simple the reason why this is a major theme and the thing within the charismatic churches is

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Because in order for guys like him to be able to do the things that he does and say the things he does he needs people like you to think that it's

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Wrong to study your Bible that it's somehow Suspicious that it's somehow evil that it somehow leads you off track.

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You don't need the Bible You just need the revelation from a man like John Gray who has the oil of something on him right, okay, so keep this in mind any church that would keep you in biblical ignorance and Somehow leads you to look at those who read their

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Bible and study theology with suspicion Then you know this they want to keep you

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Biblically illiterate so they can continue to manipulate you and fill you with false doctrine and nonsense

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And I love doing what I'm doing and those of you who would like to support us financially there's a link down below in the description that'll take you to your our website and you can join our crew and And and donate just a small amount of money like two cups of coffee worth of money

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Every month in order to help sustain the work that we're doing here So until next time may

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God richly bless you in the grace and mercy won by Jesus Christ and his vicarious death on the cross for all of your sins