Cultish: Ritual Magic & the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Pt. 2

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Is Protestantism Heresy? Pt. 3 - The Pope | Collision w/ Jeff Durbin

00:02

All right, welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish entering the kingdom the cults. My name is Jeremiah Roberts I'm one of the co -hosts here.

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We are joined here by Jack Marino Chen. It's good to have you back. Thank you It's good to be here

00:14

Andrew I'm gonna let you ask the first question you probably you were listening a lot sleuthing around the background

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I'm gonna let you ask the first question with everything that she told me we laugh at the last part She pretty much walked through is the cuts is the

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Assassin's Creed Cutscene right Minus to whatever those little things are attached to the forearm.

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I've never seen it No, you know, you know what? I'm talking if you're a gamer, but yeah, anyways Andrew, what are you what's on your mind?

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with everything with that Jack's Testimony where she's at right now in her inner story Yeah, so coming into these various rights and rights and rituals that you were doing now in the hermetic order of the

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Golden Dawn What what did you think about? Truth right and the progression of your life from being a young child to seeing these three light beings to then, you know getting into a relationship with a guy who's kind of like your guru for a while and Now being at the hermetic order of the

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Golden Dawn Did you think that truth was progressing that you're getting somewhere that you had truth back then?

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But now there's more light in this darkness where exactly were you at? That's a good question.

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I definitely thought that truth was evolving I thought that I had my whole life been ignorant and Not awakened to that yet that I was being held back by dogma dogma dogma dogma

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I heard that so much heard that recently I know that that's it's just widely taught in the occult, but Believing that that was holding me back my whatever

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I thought Faith was whatever whoever I thought Jesus was was this

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Watered -down version meant to control me and what I was a learning now was the truth and it's interesting how there's no

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Dogma yet. There is this truth and we're gonna teach it to you and you have to do these rites and rituals.

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So It amazes me how looking back Now being truly saved having

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God's Word it's the firm foundation I can stand on but back then These things kind of attack each other, but I didn't see that at the time.

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I just thought once I learn more It'll all come together. Mm -hmm Yeah, and I'm looking back as well real quick you know with Having retrospection in a sense.

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Why is it not surprising to you that this Scottish Rite of Freemasonry? Lodge referred you to the

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East Order of the Eastern Star which then refers you to The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn or someone in your relationships and your families did why is that no surprise?

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Is there a similarity between the three? Yeah, absolutely so the

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Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn was founded by three master Masons and It is really tied to Rosicrucian ism, which is tied to Freemasonry.

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So it's kind of there's Freemasonry. There's Rosicrucian ism there's the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and The Hermetic Order of the

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Golden Dawn is more Practical magic so it takes the philosophies that are taught in Rosicrucian ism, and I can't speak for Freemasons But it seems the same thing especially since we were using their ritual rooms

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The symbology was this the symbolism was the same those kind of things but it they all tie together and they all have this secret knowledge and so Yeah, it looking back it amazes me it amazes me

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But I'm not surprised that they all were coming together at that time. I didn't understand the connection It was kind of just one thing after another leading to another but now

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The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn being the practical application of the philosophies taught in these more philosophical order orders

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Hmm. Okay. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a complex world In fact, I just talked with someone

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I think next year We're gonna actually have someone who's a former like Rosicrucian and it's just so interesting because it's almost

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It's almost like you have this like multiverse of different practices of different people You know across Maybe I'm thinking my brains like going into Marvel mode or whatever

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But you do see it but at the end of the day like all of them it all comes down to one similarity

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It's all secret private hidden Esoteric knowledge understanding by way and it's always a little bit different like I said, there's some differences between interview mentioned narcissism

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Hermeticism, but at the end of the day, it's a distinction between the material the immaterial

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It's a distortion of the incarnation of Jesus Christ is fully gotten fully man Right, but again you have

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Christ in whom all the treasures wisdom knowledge are hidden Versus all this hidden stuff

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So speaking of hidden stuff you were in a sort of like this hidden place

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This is these this takes place not out in the open like this takes place in These areas and it was so it was a lodge that was facilitating where you do these rites and practices yes,

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I I didn't know how they were booking it or anything like that, but Every time we met which was once a month or the conclave that I went to which was from 10 a .m

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To 6 p .m. 3 days. You're there all day and we had the whole lodge and the rituals are always practiced in the

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Freemason ritual room Hey, what's up, everyone? We love that you are enjoying our content on a weekly basis

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06:27

You have a question or what's on your mind you're just so you're doing like some occultic practices for eight hours a day for three days of the week

06:36

What types I'm not asking for what the rituals entailed or anything like that? But was there ever contact with demonic entities during these rituals?

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Yes, but again, I wouldn't have thought they were demonic at that time and so it's a little bit blurry on when exactly

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I started to be afraid enough to Realize I need Christ. I need

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I Need someone because this isn't this is scary but a lot of that a lot of what started that is during while I'm in the order starting to have these more experiences with alien entities thinking that Thinking that it's a good thing thinking that these entities again love me that I'm special to them they want to see through my eyes all these things, but as I'm in the order as I'm practicing these things were given like the banner of the

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West for example is a symbol that you visualize and it is used as protection or The lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram you use that all the time before a ritual work to banish

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To make sure you're you're safe. Basically, they're all these things So it's it was recognized that These kind of attacks could happen that it was more defined as like this psychic

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Negativity or something, but I was definitely experiencing that and for me that happened with also wanting it to happen, this is kind of going off topic of what you asked, but I Both wanted to have these experiences because I believed that was my next thing and I was terrified

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So it was this weird Thing but started having these experiences with the same alien entities that I'd been seeing throughout my life only they were getting

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More real and those memories were more real to me than my waking life Also doing astral projection lucid dreaming and just having experiences that were really molding my reality, so all that's happening while I'm in this order and It was just very

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Confusing and scary but Is that do you think that's

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Helpful for me to talk about going to detail on or yeah I think well I think it is in the sense because again we want to let people know that you know

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A lot of times you might have friends that are talking about this experience. That's like real intangible and it's very easy especially just because a lot of times we view stuff that's going on the supernatural through the lens of Somebody on TBN or somebody blowing the wind of God if you know what

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I mean like somebody some charlatan on television or Just a sensationalism the supernatural like but what you're dealing with is like tangibly real

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So I think there's a danger between sometimes you know people looking at something like that and just thinking oh

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This is just all in your head. You know I think that's Important to realize that like you're dealing with something tangibly real so I think if we approach it to that level

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I think it's very very important and appropriate Okay, and I do think that just again to preface it wasn't just one day

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I had this experience, and that's why it wasn't weird. It was since a child. I believe that these entities Yeah Cared for me so wanting to have these experiences kept having moments where I'd be dreaming, and then

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I'd wake up from my dream to a different dream that's that felt very real where these

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Entities would want me to to interact with them, but they just felt so Powerful like a presence that I was

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I was too terrified to ever approach them and that happened many times me just really wanting to to I don't know get to know them or do whatever they wanted me to do, but Ultimately I was very afraid of them now.

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I don't believe they were aliens I believe they were demons fallen angels masquerading as Really masquerading as angels of light because I thought that they were good, but I had an experience where again

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I was I was Going to sleep or and then I was dreaming and then I woke up from my dream on an operating table in A UFO, and I just remember it so clearly and it was just really disturbing

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And these were this was a different looking alien entity than the ones I'd seen before but again

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It wasn't like this dream it haunted me because I knew it sounded crazy and yet it was more real to me than anything that I'd experienced and Took something out of me which like physically hurt and then

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I Woke up in a like extreme physical pain had to go to the urgent care had to get

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Ultrasound on my ovaries and it was this whole thing that was I I was It's embarrassing to talk about and I felt so crazy like I couldn't talk to anyone about it

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It was extremely isolating. Well, isn't this indicative of the fact of you know

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You there's always these stories that people who have these, you know alien abductions where it's literally

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This is a similar experience where it's it's there on some sort of operating table being experimented on by some aliens and entities

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But also like a lot of times this is told side note even people who weren't

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Christians They have this experience and this is you just look up the whole history of these type of encounters

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Is that when people taught a lot of times they do call it out? this is where you were at a lot of times people do call to the name of Jesus and The oppression the encounters these experiments and they'd stop

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So there is there is something that's like real and tangible there for sure, but that's that was what was going on yeah, and I'm glad he brought that up because it was this that was the first experience that like I Realized maybe they don't love me, which was it sounds again, it just sounds like words, but for me that was

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Shaking because since I was a child I believe these entities love me and that was the first time that it was like, oh, maybe maybe this isn't good yeah, and so but I'm glad that you mentioned that about calling on the name of Jesus because that was a big turn where I Thought okay.

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This is I don't have a lot of control here and I need to call on Jesus And so I started using

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Jesus as more of a magic word. I didn't know the gospel and I just Wanted the power

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I wanted to keep actively pursuing experiences with these entities while calling on Jesus for protection

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Just in case it gets too out of control, right and now having read acts 19 where it talks about Where it talks about a demon overpowering

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I can't quote the exact story but the demon overpowering someone who's using the name of Jesus and the demons has something like Jesus I know and Paul I know but you

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I don't know or something like that and that just really hit me because Again using this as a magic word and yet not submitting to the authority of Christ not recognizing this

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Lord Not wanting to turn from my sin, but thinking it's okay for me to use him like use him

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And that was something that happened a lot in the order using Jesus using the names of God and just to clarify and Andrew I'll let you jump in here

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How old were you when this these encounters happen? where it was these

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Abductions at the end of this abduction happened How like early 20s early 20s?

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So you're looking at probably like a decade and a half from the very first time you saw lights in the sky as a child I mean, it's

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I just thought it's such an interesting timeline between That time there what seems like very nice and innocent and that's like the thing that's always creepy thing about movies

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It's like whenever there's anything that works like it makes a child evil or a child's being messed with it bothers all of us

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Intangibly because we know there's like that innocence that suffering out the children suffering out the little children

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Aesthetic and but now it's like all these years later. It's like yeah It's like the entity is turn on you like a decade and a half later, right?

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Yeah, and but I wasn't even I couldn't I twisted in my mind that maybe it was a good thing

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I should want to be used by them if they want to use me like that's okay and so kept having experiences, but the worst one was when

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I I Again woke up from a dream and I was in my apartment and it was the same

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They always look like tall gray aliens but wanted me to look this entity in the eye that entity wanted me to look it in the eye and I was afraid and when

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I finally did I felt like my soul was gonna come out of my body and it was just like the

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I Woke up and said it was like a very like the darkest mirror Like it was just pure darkness and and all the darkness in me

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And it was and I think that was a big turning point where I I knew that they were Demons, but at that point being in the order being so twisted.

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I thought maybe Lucifer is the good guy So at that point, even though things are being revealed to me

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I was so deep in thinking that maybe maybe this story is is is

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Inverted maybe the dart what we perceive as darkness is actually good. Maybe Lucifer is a good guy again

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It just amazes me that if I had known Who Christ is that? he truly came and died in our place that he bore our sins on the cross bore the wrath of God and died on the cross raised on the third day and is now seated at the right hand of God as the one

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Mediator between God and man that I could have had my sins forgiven. I could have been made a new creation

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I could have had peace He says come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I'll give you rest. That was me

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That was me from day one I could have gone to the true Good Shepherd who is fully worthy of my whole life

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But instead I didn't know the truth and I loved my sin and so I continued in rebellion throughout my life and And even at that point where I was faced with okay, this isn't working.

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I Still loved my sin. I loved it and I didn't want to turn

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So trying to justify in any way, maybe this is the good thing Wow and what's on your mind, what do you think of man?

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Yeah, so looking back at your life now Thinking about the various rites and rituals that are performed in the hermetic order of the

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Golden Dawn Does it it seems to be that those give the illusion of control over?

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some form of spiritual realm or entities in which you can get information from to help

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Bolster your spiritual awareness in a weird sense but is that the truth right like it seems like you're bringing to the light and you're showing us that all of those rites and Rituals, those are illusions of control and you're actually being manipulated by evil forces that are literally can care less about a ritual

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Like a ritual has no power in and of itself But you're just allowing these things into your life and giving them the ability to manipulate and control you.

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Is that kind of how it is? Absolutely, and I think it was hard for me to to really accept that as but even

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Coming out of that relationship. I refuse to believe that I was manipulated or anything like that So it just felt like this too.

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It was really hard for me to see this as bad But I also wanted to find a back door to God.

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That was the way that I worded it a lot of the time I Wanted my own way to God where I didn't have to turn from sin where I didn't have to submit to this

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God where I could write the the rules in that sense, so Just trying to come at it trying these rituals were

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Alluring because I did I could I could have God my own way I could have

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Jesus my own way and the Jesus of the Golden Dawn does not require you to Turn from sin does not require you to submit to him as Lord But instead you become

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Christ Christ is a type that you are to become You are ultimately your own

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Savior. I mean verbatim in the in the in the literature that I was given from them

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Wow So you're at a point where you know, we're talking about it being a spiritual narcotic that continued progression

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And so you're at this like pinnacle where it just like as black as black could be as far as like spiritual darkness goes

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And you're using kind of Jesus as sort of like you're you know You're like one fit in case things get too bad.

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Like what happened from there? So I I believe it was at that conclave where we were there for you know, so long for three days

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But at one point I'm wrestling with this. I'm saying. Oh, I'm a Christian I was really trying to hold on to Christ at one point when

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I got scary enough whilst while still having him my own way And So I'm there and practicing rituals.

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We did a lot of invocation rituals and like invoking these entities and a lot of Rituals and and I think it's important to say for because it's so easy to demonize people in these things as oh, they're they're drinking blood and they're wishing harm on on everyone

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I wouldn't be surprised if there are people doing that but that's Most people that I've met most people that I've gone and talked to that are still in this kind of thing

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They think what they're doing is good and they're they think they're helping themselves and helping people and that's what

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I thought but when it gets perverted enough that you believe Lucifer is good, then it gets really iffy but practicing these rituals in the lodge and some of them were

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Isis invocation the the goddess Isis and Prophecy over us the

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Thoth invocation was really feeding my ego as I was moving up to another grade and oh you moved up so fast and Thoth really you really have a connection with Thoth during the invocation and to me like I felt like I'm good at this

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This is what I'm good at and and even though I was the Lord was starting to really open my eyes to the darkness of this

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I Didn't know who I was apart from that. I didn't know how to separate if I were to really turn from sorcery magic astrology alchemy all these things like I didn't think that there would be me and So I thought

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I was too far gone You know and in the Golden Dawn they practiced Kabbalah and in a lot of the rituals they quote scripture completely out of context things like The verse about like Let me look it up.

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But something about Wash me with hyssop No, it'd be a

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Psalm 51. Thank you But but that yeah quoting that and out of context a lot of stuff in Latin So it's like oh the

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Bible's in this but it's not Almost like pre -reformation, you know You think about that like prior to Luther translating the

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Bible into German like they had always kind of used only the priest could access Right, you're sort of vicariously experiencing that absolutely and and something else that stood out to me was even in some of the grades the the materials are are

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Ciphered so you have to know the secret language to even read the material which makes it sound so much more exciting in the cipher manuscripts, which are what the

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Golden Dawn came from It's it's in a script that had to be ciphered and and so it's all this adding

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It's almost like this secret language So you couldn't just read my materials because it wouldn't make sense to you

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But that's done on purpose because it's the allure of this secret knowledge You have to learn more to understand and you're not you're not special enough or that whole idea that the higher knowledge so Doing these rituals the

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Lord was so kind at one point. We would take the Eucharist but to Osiris Just blasphemy blasphemy blasphemy

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But Convincing myself that this is Osiris is the true Christ.

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So so that was almost like your way of like doing like a black mass or something like that Similar. I don't know what a black mass.

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Well, that's like that. It's basically I Believe I think it's the Church of Satan where they just it's like similar

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It's like a communion, but it's like an unholy communion basically. Yeah, it was a wine bread

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Going like this to Osiris it was just blasphemy, but I thought it was powerful and So, yeah really deep into that and you know,

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I could go on but it was I just want to emphasize it was real So when I see this again in kids shows things like that Sorcery, like I see that and I say that's real stuff

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That really happens in real secret places that is sending real people to hell and deceiving them

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And so it breaks my heart to see it joked about like as it though It's a fun thing because it's real but when

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I was practicing the Eucharist, I believe that I had this vision that You know Christ Christ was in me and all this darkness was being heaped on me, but it wasn't

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You know Christ is in everyone and whatever so that kind of kept me in it because I believe that I was Gaining these insights about Christ So why should

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I leave actually Christ is in this and that's another reason why I think Visions and dreams and these kind of things really putting experience above scripture because at this point

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I'd started reading scripture I would just open it and it just happened to be that it would be talking about sorcery being an abomination and I'm like no, that can't be right and just We would freak me out and I I felt that I was under God's wrath and I felt the weight of all my sin

25:00

Throughout my life and no other religion was getting rid of it Hey everyone, if you are watching us right now on apology of studios

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Which will also help support the studio which will allow cultists to be a possibility as well on a weekly basis

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So we thank you all for watching us and now back to the episode Anyway, you give me your thoughts here.

25:42

I just want to say it's interesting so in other words like you're can your process of like your Spiritual evolution if you want to call it that it's like you're trying to be continually like synchrotistic

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Blending and everything right all of a sudden the Bible gets thrown in and You're trying to be synchrotistic.

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But as you are kind of going through it, it starts to be a Sword, yes convicting.

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Yes showing the thoughts and the intentions of the heart. Absolutely, and that's not what you're going for No, and so I would just kind of hide it.

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I started sleeping with the Bible under my bed because I was scared but Every time I read it

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I would be convicted of sin and felt that way but you know same within the culture today Shame is bad.

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You just have to think positive It's not real sin is meant to oppress you all these ideas if I just think positively

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Then the shame will go away. Yeah, I just think this way then this way to go away, but it didn't and it doesn't and Only Christ truly saves and I was looking into Islam I was

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I read the whole Bhagavad Gita as it is with the commentary didn't didn't save me didn't relieve me of my sin

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Searching anywhere for some kind of relief didn't want to go. I felt like it would be like slinking back to Christ, but God in his kindness used me reading those scriptures first.

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I read The one that stuck out to me that you can tell a tree by its fruit

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Didn't really know what that meant But I knew that the fruit of the of the tree of the hermetic order of the golden dawn was bad fruit

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I knew that the highest up were just as depraved as me I could tell that I loved them in a worldly way

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I don't think I was capable of biblical love But they were they were broken and they were had addictions and they weren't free they weren't saved and that really was like as Alisa Childress says a pebble in my shoe like it bothered me and then

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I read that Satan masquerades himself as an angel of light and that one Hit me because I was really truly believing

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Satan Lucifer was the light there. Maybe him giving us the fruit was actually a good thing

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Maybe he wanted us to have intelligence and knowledge and really perverting the truth Flipping the script and I realized okay

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That's what he's doing, but I was still too prideful to turn and then I read that I really

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I just remembered Genesis 3 the the first lie that we have in the garden where Satan says if you hear the serpent says if you eat from The tree of the knowledge of good and evil

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You'll become like God knowing good and evil and that was a whole thing that I was in is you need to gain the knowledge of good and evil to become like God and I knew

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In that moment without a shadow of a doubt that Satan is behind what I'm in and you'd think that I would say

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Okay, that's that makes sense. I'm gonna get out, but I didn't I thought I'm too far gone.

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My addictions are too strong I don't know who I'd be and so I kept going in it and But God One night

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I was walking across my apartment I had my tarot cards out. It was just any other night and I was

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Spiritually attacked and I fell to my knees I couldn't even stand and it felt like my soul was being sucked out into just complete darkness and I had

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Zero control over it and I heard myself cry out Jesus Christ saved me and that amazed me that that's what

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I said But I truly meant it was a desperate cry and in that moment like just like that I I knew it was the

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Father the Son and the Holy Spirit who had saved me delivered me from that deep Oppression or whatever was happening attack

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And I knew that I had the peace that I'd been looking for my whole life because ultimately that's what

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I was looking for Peace and all these things but nothing ever satisfied, but I had true peace and I also knew

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For a fact that all the things that I've been practicing and convincing myself were actually not that bad

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Were sin against this Holy God and that all in that dark checkerboard floored room

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All that power was nothing literally nothing compared to the power of God it was nothing for him to save me and I was shaking like crazy because it was a lot and so I grabbed my

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Bible from under my bed and started reading it and At first I still had that belief that I have this higher knowledge of how to read the

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Bible gematria and Kabbalah takes the Bible and twist it but it didn't matter what

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I thought because now the holy I had the Holy Spirit and I just Recognized what

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I was reading is truth and it was feeding me I felt like a broken cistern as the Bible talks about before where everything

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I took in like I was still just empty it was just pouring out and Now I was being filled

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I was being satisfied by God's living and active word as you were saying that judged the thoughts and intentions of my heart and I was just reading it.

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I was hungry again. Like I said, I was I was into this stuff So now it was like wow, I I when

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I was in the occult. It was like that verse that says It talks about always learning and never coming to knowledge of the truth.

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Like it really was this just Feedback loop and then when I finally

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Really read the Bible it it just satisfied me. And so by the time I finished reading it for the first time in my life since being 15

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I knew I could get sober and that was a huge deal to me because I was so Struggling with addiction throughout my life that just knowing that I have the

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Lord now because there were so many other things I tried that were just Vanity just superficial but I had changed on the inside like me had become something else and that just amazed me the difference between the secret knowledge that is false and the true

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Living Word of God and the true Christ that actually saves.

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It's it's amazing Andrew what what was this? this was

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I Believe at the end of 2016 or early 2017 Wow, and so this salvation came to you in a in a split second the realization of previously reading

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God's Word and having those convictions through God's Word All of a sudden you're going through the spiritual attack and then you call out to Jesus and then all of a sudden those convictions

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Come to full fruit because you have regeneration and God placing a spirit within you like this happened instantaneously is what you're saying yes, and it's cool how before that God had been planting seeds like I was driving from San Diego to LA and Something came on the radio.

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I didn't realize it was a pastor else. I would have probably turned it off But I was like, what is this? This is what I've been this is the truth and then

32:51

I found out it was a pastor and was so confused But the Lord had been planting these seeds, but in that moment,

32:57

I didn't do any work. There's nothing I didn't clean myself up I didn't do anything the

33:03

Lord saved me in that moment when I called on the name of Christ truly. Mm -hmm What happened after that?

33:09

I mean I know a lot of times you'll hear stories of people who get Saved out of the New Age and it's like and because funny too because a lot of times

33:16

People were in the New Age. They talk about Christianity is somehow some sort of conspiratorial order to try and Control people to not get into this esoteric things

33:26

But in reality a lot of times when New Agers get saved There's this immediate conviction like I have to get rid of all my stuff like I have to burn it destroy it

33:36

I can't like I can't sell I can't enough. I have to get rid of it. Was that Something like that for you, or how did those convictions?

33:43

What was it like because you were saved in the middle of all that then it's kind of like what do I do here?

33:48

What was that process like for you? Well, I'd say even to what you're saying how that's so true that it convinces you

33:54

Christianity is just trying to control you that It's the opposite in the occult and the New Age and these lies that you can get ultimately.

34:01

It's just workspace salvation Yeah, it all that's everything except for Christianity is and it is bondage and in Christ is true freedom

34:11

And that's amazing. But yeah for me and I'm and it's so true that for some people

34:16

Just like that and never drink again or never smoke again, or the

34:22

Lord can totally do that. But for me That happened and the

34:27

Lord began to truly sanctify me and so it was me being in the word

34:32

I was still going to the Freemason Lodge practicing magic But now

34:37

I was so convicted and it bothered me and I would read more of God's Word I started in Genesis went all the way through so It took me time

34:49

I remember I was trying to practice astrology and I kept being convicted and I Just this morning was looking through my old emails from the order and had emailed them saying can a mentor talk to me?

35:01

I'm struggling. I think that my Christian dogma is holding me back This was right before I got saved

35:06

But the Lord was already doing this work in my heart and the encouragement that no you need to get out of that dogma

35:13

You're being like all these things were so ingrained in me Thinking that I had this higher knowledge of the true

35:19

Christ and that's that really confused me But it didn't matter again because the

35:24

Lord was doing a work in me. And so but it was truly by the time or at least right when

35:31

I almost finished the Bible that I finally knew I could get sober and Then I started going to a church near me in Hollywood.

35:38

That was really wonderful and the pastor Slowly went through the word with me.

35:45

The thing is that I just thought I knew better he was patient him and his wife and I Got to the point when

35:52

I really realized I can't I can't be in this order I just really tried to convince myself, but the

35:57

Lord did that work in me that I knew I really I can't practice these things I tried to do astrology every day and I was just so convicted that I stopped before the month mark

36:06

I was trying to just get through a month to prove to myself. It wasn't bad and So I reached out to them saying

36:15

I Can't I'm I'm leaving but they say you can't leave you can only I think it's called stepping away or something

36:24

But I was like, okay. Well, I'm leaving and so I just never went back and they've reached out a few times nothing

36:32

Violent or anything like that, but just to finish the great work and and all that but yeah

36:38

So yeah, and then I got baptized and ever since just and there were times when

36:43

I thought oh I'm gonna keep my book of shadows my ritual work journal, you know for one day to To share what

36:50

God's done in my life, but I was just convicted I have such a bent towards that if I'm honest that that was my my most beloved sin

36:58

And so it's unwise for me even in preparing for this. I was convicted Looking back at my old material

37:05

I don't really need to do that as much as I think I do because Because there can come a point for me that it's even learning about it isn't healthy for me.

37:14

So Coming to that conviction, but it just amazed me how the Lord was doing a work in me to convict me to sanctify me and Yeah, it was all him and I think that really stood out to me how

37:28

I Didn't do I used to do hours of rituals a day and all these things got me nowhere But just submitting myself to Christ believing in him truly and And being in his word because I want to hear from him praying to him and speaking to him

37:42

He speaks to me through his word like he did all the work and there's such a rest in that.

37:48

Mm -hmm And what are your thoughts? It's it's absolutely amazing I just praise God for it like first and foremost all glory be to God for saving your soul

37:57

And it's and it's not surprising to me You know in terms of you you keep bringing a second

38:03

Corinthians 11 into the equation where it says Satan and his minions masquerade as angels of light, but what's funny is before that in the section of Scripture It says

38:11

Paul is warning people about people who come and preach a different Jesus a different gospel who also accept a different spirit

38:18

So what we find within what was going on with you when you're looking at the Bible You weren't reading it for what it said actually instead

38:26

You were reading it in code meaning that you can't trust the word that's in front of you Right, which leads you to a different Jesus a different type of gospel this works based salvation, but if we look at it

38:37

Mormonism does a very similar thing as well, right? They can't just sit there and read the word because it's missing many plain and precious parts the devil works so intricately in the in in these ways where it's don't trust

38:49

God's Word, there's more to it and This can be your salvation. This can be your progression, but you but you

38:56

Notated very amazingly is that only through Jesus do we have the ability to be free from the weight of even our past?

39:04

Right because like you and your life and I think a lot of people have experienced physical spiritual trauma

39:09

Abuse as a child as a child They fall into a lot of New Age practices to have some form of control over their future

39:16

But they can never get rid of their past because what's going on really is since you cannot get rid of the past The past is actually being used to dictate your future

39:27

Whereas the Bible says is that God has declared the end from the beginning? He can tell you the future but can also tell you the past and exactly why it happened

39:35

So we have that resting God in the future to know What happened to us for what reason what man intends for good

39:41

God uses or what man intends for evil God uses for good to? Bring about his purposes Right and only through salvation

39:47

We have the ability to have peace with the things that happen to us in our past And we also understand that we cannot control the future, but we allow

39:55

God to work in us So it's a it's a beautiful thing that you're highlighting that I think a lot of people in our society our society today are looking for they're looking for Jesus Like you said there's people that are doing these rituals in the hermetic order of the

40:10

Golden Dawn where they're not necessarily Sacrificing babies right or drinking blood and doing this and that there are people that are looking for something that cannot be

40:20

Satisfied that only Jesus can fill because he's more powerful than all of these things Our salvation is the most beautiful thing like you brought it back to the garden.

40:30

There's a fundamental Issue that we have and that sin it separates us from God and that sin also makes us think that we can become

40:39

God's one day or Somehow that that gap can be bridged through rites and rituals

40:45

But the reality is is that the only person to bridge the gap between God and man is

40:50

Jesus Christ God himself who died on The cross for our sins so that we could have peace with God and to truly love our neighbor

40:57

You know to actually extend that love outward into society by being a good neighbor like it sounds like to me

41:04

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but within the hermetic order of the Golden Dawn. Where's the love for neighbor, right?

41:11

like you couldn't even Interact with outside society Right the

41:16

God of the universe so floods into us that then we project that love into the world by spreading the gospel

41:22

But it sounds like the God of the hermetic order of the Golden Dawn is so internal that you just lost in confusion

41:29

Is that something that you that you'd see happening? Yeah, I think it comes down and praise

41:35

God everything you said praise God that that's true Yeah, I think it comes down to Believing you have this higher knowledge and even in society when

41:47

Ultimately, no, it's not truly loving your neighbor. There is the idea of oh, yeah loving the neighbor in in Like social justice that kind of thing and it was that similar kind of Love your neighbor by doing these things, but is that really loving them?

42:05

There's no evangelism, it's universalism, so You could you have to believe in a higher power.

42:12

It can be any higher power I believed I drew something where it's like here's here's a picture of God and Here's lines drawing to every other religion and it's all taking a bid of everything and I thought it was this profound thing

42:25

But again that doesn't save it's an attack to on the sufficiency of Scripture.

42:30

And when I was really thinking about Freemasonry the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn Rosicrucianism Ultimately, it's an attack on the sufficiency of Scripture and I praise

42:41

God that his word is true not Encoded not this mystical meaning you have to read between the words.

42:47

Yeah, that does not save it is not true But just reading God's Word I love when

42:52

Jesus talks about coming to him as a child and that he's hidden these things from the wise and understanding That's amazing our

42:59

God is so good and so kind and we can trust his word as it's written and it is true

43:05

And that's amazing. So yes, praise God everything you said, but no in the order.

43:11

There is no true love There's no true love of neighbor It's a perverted view of the same ideas and that also stood out to me that there's so many of the same concepts

43:21

We used I don't I Elohim all these words in rituals So, oh, it's

43:27

Christian because it uses these words just because it uses the same words Doesn't mean it's

43:33

Christian. We have to define the words. Yeah, we have to see what what they mean for sure There's always a language barrier to scale one thing.

43:39

I appreciated that you shared just a moment ago was the really that book you're like I can't even

43:47

Delve into that in order to like to flush this out for this podcast because there's just levels of like the past you shouldn't like open up It's just something

43:55

I think when it comes to apologetics specifically like in relation to the occult like even

44:00

Walter Martin joint like warned about he said to like if you are gonna do ministry to the occult like Prepare yourself because it's it's a different ballgame then even like dealing with the cults because you're dealing with something that primarily the first and foremost thing is spiritual warfare and So many times like in the

44:17

New Age and the occult you can tell me it's like There's a tendency to like to rely on the flesh and have this like apologetic answer to like rip them apart

44:25

But it's like you have to be like reliant on the spirit and if any time like you're relying on the flesh

44:32

You know, like that's probably not a good thing. You need to like really combat that in prayer but yeah, like I think that um

44:39

You just have to be very very careful. Like I've had times just when I'm doing research I'm just like watching somebody online who's like into this stuff and I I Can't listen to more than like five minutes.

44:51

There's like something There's like just a spirit about this person, you know of what they're communicating or maybe even what they're in contact with like it's

44:59

Like I can't listen to that anymore I think you do even within Christian apologetics like you have to be very very careful about that, right?

45:06

And I forgot to mention a big part of the Lord convicting me before that Moment was my grandpa sat me down with my cousin and said

45:15

What's your relationship with God like and I remember saying oh, it's better than ever I've been reading all these religious texts and he just said

45:23

Jesus is the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except through him and I was so mad.

45:32

I was shaking. I was never gonna talk to him again I couldn't believe you would be so judgmental but it didn't matter what

45:37

I thought because the Lord used his word to penetrate my heart and convict me of sin and As I was going to the the practice magic and it was bothering me so When I when people ask me, how do

45:51

I witness to people in the occult share the gospel? Romans 1 16 talking about the the gospel is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes

46:00

It wasn't someone talking to me about and sometimes I'm sure that's helpful, but ultimately it doesn't save ultimately

46:08

It's the truth of the gospel that saves and just the importance of knowing that we don't wrestle against flesh and blood

46:14

And knowing that we can come to these things with God's Word that it really is sufficient Even for talking to people in the occult

46:21

You don't have to know everything and I felt almost weird about not like oh, I have to read these things but even as a

46:29

Christian there can be that fascination for things in the occult and just being wise because you don't have to know everything and then one last

46:36

Thing speaking you said we weren't drinking blood I've said before when I was in that order if they had told me to drink blood it would have totally made sense with what?

46:45

I believed and because especially in Thelema That's such a big part of ritual just the power behind the blood and all that But even if they were even if it's worst -case scenario in Freemasonry or in any anything

47:01

Ultimately remembering we have everything we need in God's Word for life and godliness that we can share the gospel with these people and pray for these people because most of them are people and and Not saying they're like me in that.

47:14

I was a victim because bad things happen to me, but ultimately I continuously chose rebellion

47:20

But they're hurting people Josh and I just spoke to some people in the order and and it just it reminds you

47:27

These are human beings made in the image of God that and that's why you do this podcast and that's why you do this podcast because we love you and We don't want you to be deceived by the enemy who hates you

47:38

We want you to turn to the true God who? Truly loves you and sent his son to die for you that you could be you could be forgiven of all your sin and made a new creation one thing

47:49

I one other question as we wrap up here and I'll leave it up to you if you have any last thoughts is

47:54

What I've noticed with you, which is also common with so many other people I've been across the table with whether it's in person or via zoom is

48:05

How as a new ager their eyes like before Christ after Christ?

48:11

We did a podcast recently with a gala Angelucci who you know as a fan of our podcast

48:17

We've done some collaborations with her When you look at like her old podcast and just look at her eyes versus like where she is now or like Teresa Gentry There's other people and you didn't share that too.

48:27

Like that is just so Indicative of like the eyes don't lie Like of what of what happens of that old life versus likes to what happens

48:40

When someone like finds Christ, like I don't know what when you remember like you sure I think you shared that Post a while back kind of telling that story, you know,

48:49

I'm talking about right? Yeah I mean, maybe just as we wrap up you're like just me share everyone like the heart behind like why you shared that I think

48:55

There's a that's just really sums up our entire conversation yeah, it's just it

49:01

I really am a new creation in Christ and it amazes me to this day that people now

49:06

I live here and next door to you and I People at my church

49:13

Redeemer Bible Church when they see me and they see those posts they're like wait

49:19

That's the same person. I would never think that and I remember the first time someone said that to me that meant so much to me because from a child to 20s that was me.

49:30

That was everyone knew me as as that Yeah, and that the Lord could I never thought

49:35

I would laugh again. I never thought I would smile again I was so depraved and broken and empty

49:41

The first time I laughed until I cried like was amazing to me and the fact that people now know me as a joyful person

49:47

I didn't do work to get joyful. I'm not trying the Lord is doing a work in me

49:53

And he's going to bring it to completion. That is amazing. And so I share that because It that really was my life and I don't want to forget it because I praise

50:03

God that he has saved me I don't want to get so comfortable in in where I am in a wonderful church community that I Forget that there are more people that are that are lost that need to hear the gospel

50:15

And so I share that to remember for me I want to remember because it amazes me that I forget that I even was addicted that I even was completely wicked and completely deceived so That's why

50:28

Awesome, Jack. Thank you for coming on and and sharing this I know you've told your story quite a few times, but I know this is gonna be

50:35

Blessing for audience, maybe even challenging for some so I thank you for just making the time to join us here and just Real quickly though.

50:44

Do you have like your own YouTube channel or working kind of people find you? I know you're I've seen a couple of videos of you lately.

50:50

Where can people find you if they want to find out more about you? Thank you You can find me at Jack Marino Chen.

50:56

That's JAC Marino Chen at YouTube or just Jack Marino calm

51:03

And I'm making videos on sharing what I used to believe and comparing it to the truth Yeah, and I'll share it to you like you had a conversation with one of my former people used to go to church with Chuck Holmes.

51:14

Yeah, so shout out to Chuck Holmes. Yeah, really awesome. Who knows me? I'll get him on the podcast one day, too Awesome.

51:19

Well, all right Well, if you guys enjoyed this episode, let us know what you thought leave a comment on our social media

51:25

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51:33

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